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by738
Posts: 3148
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:24 am

opticalilyushin wrote:
Out of Belfast almost full on most flights,

Odd, I had been told otherwise… :?:
 
opticalilyushin
Posts: 849
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:21 am

by738 wrote:
opticalilyushin wrote:
Out of Belfast almost full on most flights,

Odd, I had been told otherwise… :?:


Many of their passenger loads have been in the 60s over the last month or two.
 
tonystan
Posts: 1742
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:19 am

Galwayman wrote:
jomur wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Time for EI to stop faffing around and sign an agreement with FR to UK regional cities


Why? If people wanted to fly FR they would already be doing it. Aer Lingus use these routes as feeder flights to its hub. No way would FR want pax having the same baggage allowance that Aer Lingus has when connections.


People are choosing FR over EI day and night. Ei has no hub at the moment and it's moving to manchester . It would just take EI 2 minutes to match FR's luggage allowances .......and also FR is a much better airline than EI


EI has its primary hub in DUB with two remaining bases in ORK and BHD plus a focus airport at SNN. Flights still operate into DUB with connecting passengers and the feed is still there albeit limited and we all know why. MAN at present is not a “hub” but a base for a number of longhaul only aircraft which has come about as a result of the pandemic, it is not “moving” to Manchester, 90% of its assets/staff will be based in the ROI.

So for goodness sake would you please think before you type! Apologies for missing your last reply to me but it was obviously deleted by the Admin before I had the chance to chuckle at it.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
jomur
Posts: 411
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:12 am

Galwayman wrote:
jomur wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Time for EI to stop faffing around and sign an agreement with FR to UK regional cities


Why? If people wanted to fly FR they would already be doing it. Aer Lingus use these routes as feeder flights to its hub. No way would FR want pax having the same baggage allowance that Aer Lingus has when connections.


People are choosing FR over EI day and night. Ei has no hub at the moment and it's moving to manchester . It would just take EI 2 minutes to match FR's luggage allowances .......and also FR is a much better airline than EI


I'm talking about FEED to DUB not point to point to elsewhere in Europe. They are two completely different markets. FR a much better airline? I suspect lots won't agree with you. FR would have to allow free bags for Aer Lingus connecting passengers, won't ever happen...
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 1458
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:16 am

MOL has shown that the leopard can change his spots. Numerous times MOL has said "Ryanair will never do X" only for a realisation that there is a way for X to be profitable for Ryanair and X does indeed happen

It may be inconsistent, but FR has shown itself to be very adaptable when there are profits to be had
 
AMP44
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:01 pm

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:25 pm

EI-DVL is doing the BHD-LHR flights today and EI-DVK is doing BHD-BHX.

C-LCYN is doing BHD-EXT.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25468
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:53 pm

AMP44 wrote:
EI-DVL is doing the BHD-LHR flights today


Thats pretty normal for that A/C to be doing that route.
 
EISG1129
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:43 pm

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:35 pm

I note that Stobart Air's sole ATR 42-600, EI-GEV, was flown DUB-BLL this morning. Does anybody know why it was flown to Billund? Returning the aircraft to a lessor perhaps?

Source: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ei-gev
 
TexasAirCorp
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:24 pm

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:53 pm

EISG1129 wrote:
I note that Stobart Air's sole ATR 42-600, EI-GEV, was flown DUB-BLL this morning. Does anybody know why it was flown to Billund? Returning the aircraft to a lessor perhaps?

Source: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ei-gev


Yeah, it's leased from Nordic Air Capital and BLL is where they store most of their aircraft. I believe a few of the ATR 72s also went there today.
 
AMP44
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:01 pm

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:25 pm

EI-FMJ (a Stobart ATR) flew from BHD to DUB earlier today. EI-FSL and EI-FNA are still at BHD, suppose they will go to DUB or BLL at some point.

EI-DVI flew DUB-EDI-BHD. Doing the same routes back tonight. Curious to see if EI will continue to do DUB-?-BHD-?-DUB flight plans or eventually base another A320 at BHD.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10817
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:46 pm

What I don't understand is that there website looks as if they are still trading.

Apparently, they are still recruiting;

https://www.stobartair.com/materials-manager/
 
bennett123
Posts: 10817
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:27 pm

The Transport Minister is Eamonn Ryan of the Green party.

Given their last manifesto, it is hard to see any enthusiasm for aviation.

https://www.greenparty.ie/wp-content/up ... ERSION.pdf

3.6 Aviation and Shipping
The transport of goods and people by sea and air
is almost 100% reliant on petroleum fuels. To-date
there has been no considerable shift away from oil
as the main source of energy for this international
sector. The aviation industry contributes over 2%
of our global annual carbon emissions and this is
increasing year on year. Shipping accounts for over
90% of all international trade and 2.5% of global
CO2. We believe that both of these international
industries must be brought into a regulatory
framework for carbon emissions.
› In line with the United Nations International
Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO)
recommendations we support the creation of
a global carbon offsetting scheme funded by
the aviation industry. We also call for a global
carbon emissions tax and that the voluntary
aspect of the agreed resolution is revised and
set as compulsory from 2020.
 
User avatar
Aisak
Posts: 946
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:59 pm

vhtje wrote:
EIBPI wrote:
Any chance that Aer Lingus will find a replacement operator in the next few days?

There must be plenty choice on the EU wet lease market right now.


Is there any evidence that the market needs that level of urgency to setup replacement services? One wonders if the loads on the Stobart Air operation were perhaps behind this decision - ie they were low because, Covid. Maybe the operation was bleeding money, so they decided to pull the plug to stem the losses, knowing they were not going to be running the operation when the good times roll around again. Why throw away money?

Does anyone know what the loads on the routes operated by Stobart has been like recently?


Even if they operate at 100% loads, their fate was set since Connect Airways. It was clear that Aer Lingus, 100% owned by IAG was not going to renew the regional contract to an airline owned by Virgin.
Bankruptcy was there at the end of 2021 but if forecasts were not good for the summer season, then BK declaration has to be triggered.
 
TexasAirCorp
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:24 pm

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:41 pm

Aisak wrote:
vhtje wrote:
EIBPI wrote:
Any chance that Aer Lingus will find a replacement operator in the next few days?

There must be plenty choice on the EU wet lease market right now.


Is there any evidence that the market needs that level of urgency to setup replacement services? One wonders if the loads on the Stobart Air operation were perhaps behind this decision - ie they were low because, Covid. Maybe the operation was bleeding money, so they decided to pull the plug to stem the losses, knowing they were not going to be running the operation when the good times roll around again. Why throw away money?

Does anyone know what the loads on the routes operated by Stobart has been like recently?


Even if they operate at 100% loads, their fate was set since Connect Airways. It was clear that Aer Lingus, 100% owned by IAG was not going to renew the regional contract to an airline owned by Virgin.
Bankruptcy was there at the end of 2021 but if forecasts were not good for the summer season, then BK declaration has to be triggered.


Why exactly were they ever part of Connect Airways? What did the consortium see in a tiny ATR operator with a little route network at SEN that could've benefitted a Q400 regional carrier?

I get why EI wouldn't have let a Virgin-owned company operate its regional services, but I must say I think EI hasn't exactly been the kindest to Stobart. They've provided a top-notch service for 10 years, seems a little unfair to throw them under the bus in favour of a paper airline like Emerald.
 
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usdcaguy
Posts: 1622
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:12 am

Might someone explain if the liquidation will impact Aer Arann Islands? Was that part of the company spun off from Aer Arann at some point?
 
Wingtips56
Posts: 1363
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:26 am

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:25 am

bennett123 wrote:
The Transport Minister is Eamonn Ryan of the Green party.

Given their last manifesto, it is hard to see any enthusiasm for aviation.

https://www.greenparty.ie/wp-content/up ... ERSION.pdf

3.6 Aviation and Shipping
The transport of goods and people by sea and air
is almost 100% reliant on petroleum fuels. To-date
there has been no considerable shift away from oil
as the main source of energy for this international
sector. The aviation industry contributes over 2%
of our global annual carbon emissions and this is
increasing year on year. Shipping accounts for over
90% of all international trade and 2.5% of global
CO2. We believe that both of these international
industries must be brought into a regulatory
framework for carbon emissions.
› In line with the United Nations International
Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO)
recommendations we support the creation of
a global carbon offsetting scheme funded by
the aviation industry. We also call for a global
carbon emissions tax and that the voluntary
aspect of the agreed resolution is revised and
set as compulsory from 2020.

Interesting manifesto for an island nation that relies heavily on shipping and airlift.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
IrishLessor
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:44 am

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:27 am

vhtje wrote:
EIBPI wrote:
Any chance that Aer Lingus will find a replacement operator in the next few days?

There must be plenty choice on the EU wet lease market right now.


Is there any evidence that the market needs that level of urgency to setup replacement services? One wonders if the loads on the Stobart Air operation were perhaps behind this decision - ie they were low because, Covid. Maybe the operation was bleeding money, so they decided to pull the plug to stem the losses, knowing they were not going to be running the operation when the good times roll around again. Why throw away money?

Does anyone know what the loads on the routes operated by Stobart has been like recently?


Hi VHTJE,
Stobart was going great at BHD, outside of that they had so little flying, mainly CFN and KIR, which are covered by subsidy. The hangover from the grounding still looked large and the costs they had for a fleet size much larger than they needed etc. All very sad and unfortunate...

Separately, in the case of CFN Loganair is the obvious airline now, they know this market and would most likely see the GLA link to the airport restored as a means of getting an aircraft into the market. This is how it worked before. However, having an Aer Lingus brand on the route provides connectivity to the US...
 
AMP44
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:01 pm

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:12 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
Might someone explain if the liquidation will impact Aer Arann Islands? Was that part of the company spun off from Aer Arann at some point?


Aer Arann Islands has been a different entity to Stobart Air UC for a while now. What connection there is between both companies, I don't know.

Legally they are Galway Aviation Services Ltd Trading as Aer Arann Islands.

In May 2021, the Government signed a €5.6m contract to secure air services to and from the Aran Islands for the next four years.

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0 ... s-flights/
 
Breathe
Posts: 801
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:05 pm

ScottishDavie wrote:
Breathe wrote:
I wonder if CityJet could see an opportunity to pick up the pilots and lease some cheap ATR aircraft and bid for the franchise? Perhaps their finances would kibosh any ideas of this though.

Awful time for the crew and other workers of Stobart Air!


Isn't CityJet in the Irish equivalent of Chapter 11?

They exited it last year:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... -1.4327483
 
edinburgh
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:04 am

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:08 am

British Airways (BA Cityflyer) picking up 4 routes from Belfast City Airport (BHD) - EXT/LBA/NQY/GLA

Belfast City (BHD)/ Exeter (EXT)
From 16 June 2021
BA7319
Monday – 12.55
Friday – 16.35
Saturday – 10.15
Sunday – 11.40

Belfast City (BHD)/ Leeds Bradford (LBA)
From 16 June 2021
BA7313
Monday – 8.40
Tuesday – 8.40
Wednesday – 8.40
Thursday – 8.40
Friday – 10.55
Sunday – 8.40

Belfast City (BHD)/ Cornwall Newquay (NQY)
From 3 July 2021
BA7331
Wednesday – 16.35
Saturday – 6.35

Belfast City (BHD)/ Glasgow (GLA)
From 2 August 2021
BA7327
Monday – 19.00
Tuesday – 19.00
Wednesday – 19.00
Thursday – 19.00
Friday – 19.00
Sunday – 19.00

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... fast-city/
 
REMan
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:30 am

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:37 am

This should never have happened, given the airline was on track to return to profitability. Ever since the Connect Airways merger - and subsequent collapse - there has been a bitterness between the owners of Stobart Air (Stobart Group/Esken) and Aer Lingus. Aer Lingus wanted Stobart Air to collapse, that much is clear.

But now they're in a pickle. Just over a week ago, Emerald were refused their Irish operating licences, which has well and truly snookered EI's plans to encourage Stobart Air's collapse and bring in Emerald after a month or two to start picking up the routes, rather than making them wait till end of franchise in Dec 22.

Now it works very well for IAG/EI. They can use their bigger metal on the busier routes and get BACF in on a bunch of the BHD routes. Keeps all the of the revenue within IAG at a time they're fighting for cash.

I think the chances of Emerald actually coming to fruition now are reduced. It's too risky for EI to keep playing that card given they have already been refused their operating licence once. But I do know that Stobart Group/Esken already had a plan to place the 8 Propius aircraft with Emerald if SA were to collapse..
 
TexasAirCorp
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:24 pm

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:15 pm

REMan wrote:
This should never have happened, given the airline was on track to return to profitability. Ever since the Connect Airways merger - and subsequent collapse - there has been a bitterness between the owners of Stobart Air (Stobart Group/Esken) and Aer Lingus. Aer Lingus wanted Stobart Air to collapse, that much is clear.

But now they're in a pickle. Just over a week ago, Emerald were refused their Irish operating licences, which has well and truly snookered EI's plans to encourage Stobart Air's collapse and bring in Emerald after a month or two to start picking up the routes, rather than making them wait till end of franchise in Dec 22.

Now it works very well for IAG/EI. They can use their bigger metal on the busier routes and get BACF in on a bunch of the BHD routes. Keeps all the of the revenue within IAG at a time they're fighting for cash.

I think the chances of Emerald actually coming to fruition now are reduced. It's too risky for EI to keep playing that card given they have already been refused their operating licence once. But I do know that Stobart Group/Esken already had a plan to place the 8 Propius aircraft with Emerald if SA were to collapse..


Really?! Why were they denied an operating license?
 
Clydenairways
Posts: 1349
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:27 am

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:51 pm

REMan wrote:
This should never have happened, given the airline was on track to return to profitability. Ever since the Connect Airways merger - and subsequent collapse - there has been a bitterness between the owners of Stobart Air (Stobart Group/Esken) and Aer Lingus. Aer Lingus wanted Stobart Air to collapse, that much is clear.

But now they're in a pickle. Just over a week ago, Emerald were refused their Irish operating licences, which has well and truly snookered EI's plans to encourage Stobart Air's collapse and bring in Emerald after a month or two to start picking up the routes, rather than making them wait till end of franchise in Dec 22.

Now it works very well for IAG/EI. They can use their bigger metal on the busier routes and get BACF in on a bunch of the BHD routes. Keeps all the of the revenue within IAG at a time they're fighting for cash.

I think the chances of Emerald actually coming to fruition now are reduced. It's too risky for EI to keep playing that card given they have already been refused their operating licence once. But I do know that Stobart Group/Esken already had a plan to place the 8 Propius aircraft with Emerald if SA were to collapse..


Are you sure about the operating license refusal? Seems a bit strange that they would apply for that if it was not needed until 2023 !!

Also wasn't the bitterness more of an IAG thing because of the Virgin tie up ? So more of a spat between holding companies.
 
REMan
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:30 am

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:04 pm

TexasAirCorp wrote:

Really?! Why were they denied an operating license?


Someone didn't fill the paperwork in correctly and concerns over liquidity.
 
REMan
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:30 am

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:07 pm

Clydenairways wrote:

Are you sure about the operating license refusal? Seems a bit strange that they would apply for that if it was not needed until 2023 !!

Also wasn't the bitterness more of an IAG thing because of the Virgin tie up ? So more of a spat between holding companies.


100% certain on the refusal. They planned to have licences and first aircraft by the upcoming summer. Everyone including EI expected SA to collapse by then. Took everyone by surprise when the sale was announced.

Bitterness stems back between Stobart Groups own messes financially and with board spats pre-separation a few years back. There are some in EI that hold a serious level of despise for the parent and SA.
 
User avatar
Aisak
Posts: 946
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:36 am

REMan wrote:
Now it works very well for IAG/EI. They can use their bigger metal on the busier routes and get BACF in on a bunch of the BHD routes. Keeps all the of the revenue within IAG at a time they're fighting for cash.

I think the chances of Emerald actually coming to fruition now are reduced. It's too risky for EI to keep playing that card given they have already been refused their operating licence once. But I do know that Stobart Group/Esken already had a plan to place the 8 Propius aircraft with Emerald if SA were to collapse..


Well, I thank it is still too early to state that Emerald won’t be able to fulfill its obligations unless the contract sets a milestone before dec-22. Who signs a contract 2 years in advance anyway?? Rather short-sighted than the opposite.

Anyway, emergency remedy situation seems good: EI own 320 for heavy routes, BA CF E190 for the thin routes out of BHD. But some other routes will require something lighter and smaller such as ATR/Dash.

Cityjet was mentioned above. What about their planned merger with Air Nostrum? It’s not that Nostrum has a lot of ATRs to spare, but the 13 from Stobart are in the market right now…
 
TexasAirCorp
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:24 pm

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:38 am

Aisak wrote:
REMan wrote:
Now it works very well for IAG/EI. They can use their bigger metal on the busier routes and get BACF in on a bunch of the BHD routes. Keeps all the of the revenue within IAG at a time they're fighting for cash.

I think the chances of Emerald actually coming to fruition now are reduced. It's too risky for EI to keep playing that card given they have already been refused their operating licence once. But I do know that Stobart Group/Esken already had a plan to place the 8 Propius aircraft with Emerald if SA were to collapse..


Well, I thank it is still too early to state that Emerald won’t be able to fulfill its obligations unless the contract sets a milestone before dec-22. Who signs a contract 2 years in advance anyway?? Rather short-sighted than the opposite.

Anyway, emergency remedy situation seems good: EI own 320 for heavy routes, BA CF E190 for the thin routes out of BHD. But some other routes will require something lighter and smaller such as ATR/Dash.

Cityjet was mentioned above. What about their planned merger with Air Nostrum? It’s not that Nostrum has a lot of ATRs to spare, but the 13 from Stobart are in the market right now…


Nostrum was really keen on getting the EI Regional contract, they set up an Irish subsidiary called Hibernian Airlines that would've operated the flights if Nostrum won the bid. Perhaps with Stobart gone and Emerald looking shaky they might succeed?
 
REMan
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:30 am

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:04 am

Aisak wrote:
REMan wrote:
Now it works very well for IAG/EI. They can use their bigger metal on the busier routes and get BACF in on a bunch of the BHD routes. Keeps all the of the revenue within IAG at a time they're fighting for cash.

I think the chances of Emerald actually coming to fruition now are reduced. It's too risky for EI to keep playing that card given they have already been refused their operating licence once. But I do know that Stobart Group/Esken already had a plan to place the 8 Propius aircraft with Emerald if SA were to collapse..


Well, I thank it is still too early to state that Emerald won’t be able to fulfill its obligations unless the contract sets a milestone before dec-22. Who signs a contract 2 years in advance anyway?? Rather short-sighted than the opposite.

Anyway, emergency remedy situation seems good: EI own 320 for heavy routes, BA CF E190 for the thin routes out of BHD. But some other routes will require something lighter and smaller such as ATR/Dash.

Cityjet was mentioned above. What about their planned merger with Air Nostrum? It’s not that Nostrum has a lot of ATRs to spare, but the 13 from Stobart are in the market right now…


No contract even signed yet. Emerald refused to sign until an outcome of the SA sale and if successful, an understanding of what transition would look like.
 
Eagleboy
Posts: 1874
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:29 am

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:47 pm

bennett123 wrote:
What I don't understand is that there website looks as if they are still trading.

Apparently, they are still recruiting;

https://www.stobartair.com/materials-manager/

Im going to hazaard a guess that they EI staff havent being working in the last 5-6 days
 
bennett123
Posts: 10817
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:18 pm

I was down at EXT today (EI3690 from Belfast) expecting to see an EI ATR.

No sign of it.

Is there any news of who will take over this route?.
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 871
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:27 am

seansasLCY wrote:
yuomi wrote:
TexasAirCorp wrote:
https://twitter.com/JP_Biz/status/1403617506103865344/photo/1

Statement from Stobart to staff. Am guessing a proper statement will be released later


Am I reading that statement wrong, or does it say the wet-lease agreement was with BA?

Considering it was an all-atr fleet, how does that work?


They were operating two E190s. At least one of which was flying for BACF I think.

8herveg wrote:
Excuse my ignorance, but why can’t EI just operate these regional routes themselves? As in, why can’t they buy their own smaller aircraft (say, the ATR’s, Embraers, Dash-8’s or whateve- BA, Air France, KLM, SAS...
.

American, Delta, Fex Ex, United, ANA, Qantas, Japan, South African, Lufthansa, Air Canada, Aerolineas Argntinas, Iberia, Aeromexico, etc etc have subsidiaries as well.
 
opticalilyushin
Posts: 849
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:59 am

bennett123 wrote:
I was down at EXT today (EI3690 from Belfast) expecting to see an EI ATR.

No sign of it.

Is there any news of who will take over this route?.


No EI36xx flights have operated since the collapse of Stobart. Routes taken over by Aer Lingus were renumbered and BA Cityflyer are already operating an E190 on BHD-EXT several times a week.
 
User avatar
Crosswind
Posts: 2654
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 4:34 am

Re: Stobart Air cancel all flights

Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:37 am

seansasLCY wrote:
They were operating two E190s. At least one of which was flying for BACF I think.


The Stobart E190s are long gone, and it’s been years since they operated for BA Cityflyer. Most recently operated for Flybe before they shut-down.

The wet-lease agreement with BA refers to the Belfast-UK routes which became prime BA coded with an EI codeshare after Brexit for licensing reasons. Purely a technicality. Even the A320 operated BHD-LHR is technically a BA wet-lease now as its UK domestic.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
bennett123
Posts: 10817
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:40 pm

Actually there were two BA ERJ at EXT yesterday.

First G-LCYN which arrived as BA4479 which flew back as BA4478. A couple of hours later G-LCYZ arrived as CJ7031.
 
User avatar
Crosswind
Posts: 2654
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 4:34 am

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:50 pm

YZ was an ad-hoc charter from Manchester. Totally separate from the Belfast operation.
 
ZuluTime
Posts: 291
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 6:23 pm

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:06 pm

After talking to someone fairly close to all this over the last day or two, I think REMan's comments are a partisan view of life from an ex-Stobart perspective, which is probably not surprising given the user name.

The relationship between RE and EI was terminally damaged when EI woke up one morning to discover that Stobart Group had sold the airline into a structure 30% owned by Virgin without any warning or without even a back-channel conversation first. Blame for that sits with one individual now running a large handling agent. EI's main regional feed partner was suddenly under the part control of a bitter rival to IAG, and it's easy to see why that was not well received (to put it mildly). I'm told that the relationship between RE management and EI (and RE management and some of the leasing companies) has suffered from a loss of trust for other reasons too since then.

There was no realistic prospect of RE being profitable without the EI regional franchise. RE's hope, which I understand was expressed frequently and widely inside the company, was that Emerald would fail to get going and the franchise would fall back to RE. They assumed incorrectly that they were the "first reserve" for the EI Regional franchise but they were not - they didn't even make that position on the leader board despite much false hope and big talk throughout the buyout that fell through. If some of the stories about the first potential buyout and then the second one which publicly collapsed are true (and as I don't know they are, I won't post them), it seems like the prospect of a buyout was never credible. In turn that calls the credibility of RE and its parent company into question.

Emerald's licence application hasn't been refused. There is actually no process to refuse an application under the EU rules. The authority - whether it be IAA, LBA, whoever - can say "we don't believe you meet the tests needed for grant of a licence at this time, for these reasons". RE's own application for a UK licence saw exactly the same response only weeks ago - the UK CAA allegedly said that the projections in the business plan weren't credible and sent Stobart away to reconsider. If they had, they'd have been given a licence. That's exactly the same position for Emerald - if it is able to fix the issues, it is given a licence. The authority can't refuse.

So at this time, there is no finality about any of this. Emerald might well be able to come up with whatever the IAA is asking for, get its licence and get going. It's pretty much impossible to say. All that I hear is RE were selling a fantasy about what the future of the airline could look like, and without a buyer, its parent company clearly had no confidence in that fantasy either, and so pulled its support for the airline last Friday.
 
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FabDiva
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:42 pm

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:14 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Actually there were two BA ERJ at EXT yesterday.

First G-LCYN which arrived as BA4479 which flew back as BA4478. A couple of hours later G-LCYZ arrived as CJ7031.


Charter for Sale Sharks who are playing Exeter Chiefs in the English Rugby Playoffs today.
 
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Crosswind
Posts: 2654
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 4:34 am

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:42 pm

ZuluTime wrote:
After talking to someone fairly close to all this over the last day or two, I think REMan's comments are a partisan view of life from an ex-Stobart perspective, which is probably not surprising given the user name.

The relationship between RE and EI was terminally damaged when EI woke up one morning to discover that Stobart Group had sold the airline into a structure 30% owned by Virgin without any warning or without even a back-channel conversation first. Blame for that sits with one individual now running a large handling agent. EI's main regional feed partner was suddenly under the part control of a bitter rival to IAG, and it's easy to see why that was not well received (to put it mildly). I'm told that the relationship between RE management and EI (and RE management and some of the leasing companies) has suffered from a loss of trust for other reasons too since then.

There was no realistic prospect of RE being profitable without the EI regional franchise. RE's hope, which I understand was expressed frequently and widely inside the company, was that Emerald would fail to get going and the franchise would fall back to RE. They assumed incorrectly that they were the "first reserve" for the EI Regional franchise but they were not - they didn't even make that position on the leader board despite much false hope and big talk throughout the buyout that fell through. If some of the stories about the first potential buyout and then the second one which publicly collapsed are true (and as I don't know they are, I won't post them), it seems like the prospect of a buyout was never credible. In turn that calls the credibility of RE and its parent company into question.

Emerald's licence application hasn't been refused. There is actually no process to refuse an application under the EU rules. The authority - whether it be IAA, LBA, whoever - can say "we don't believe you meet the tests needed for grant of a licence at this time, for these reasons". RE's own application for a UK licence saw exactly the same response only weeks ago - the UK CAA allegedly said that the projections in the business plan weren't credible and sent Stobart away to reconsider. If they had, they'd have been given a licence. That's exactly the same position for Emerald - if it is able to fix the issues, it is given a licence. The authority can't refuse.

So at this time, there is no finality about any of this. Emerald might well be able to come up with whatever the IAA is asking for, get its licence and get going. It's pretty much impossible to say. All that I hear is RE were selling a fantasy about what the future of the airline could look like, and without a buyer, its parent company clearly had no confidence in that fantasy either, and so pulled its support for the airline last Friday.


And let’s not forget that Aer Lingus only became Stobart’s sole customer after the failure of Flybe. That’s not Aer Lingus’ fault.

I believe that the Aer Lingus Regional operation was largely successful in the past, then Stobart got into bed with Flybe, first as a franchise and then as part of Connect Airways with Virgin.
On the side they took on 2 E190s, to be operated for BA at London City for 12-18 months. When that contract ended as planned with the delivery of more E190s to BA Cityflyer they were moved to operate for Flybe, mainly at London City. One of those mainly on LCY-EDI which was Cityflyer’s busiest route operated at a peak of 11 daily in each direction.

From an IAG perspective, Stobart didn’t exactly enamour themselves to their biggest, and eventually only customer (IAG)

The failure of Stobart Air, is a disaster for the employees, suppliers and their families in the middle of a terrible time for aviation in general. But I think to suggest that they were engineered to fail by Aer Lingus is somewhat wide of the mark. If that were true, and demonstrably so, then it would probably require some sort of legal investigation.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
REMan
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:30 am

Re: Update: Stobart Air ceases operations, appoint liquidator

Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:50 pm

ZuluTime wrote:
After talking to someone fairly close to all this over the last day or two, I think REMan's comments are a partisan view of life from an ex-Stobart perspective, which is probably not surprising given the user name.

The relationship between RE and EI was terminally damaged when EI woke up one morning to discover that Stobart Group had sold the airline into a structure 30% owned by Virgin without any warning or without even a back-channel conversation first. Blame for that sits with one individual now running a large handling agent. EI's main regional feed partner was suddenly under the part control of a bitter rival to IAG, and it's easy to see why that was not well received (to put it mildly). I'm told that the relationship between RE management and EI (and RE management and some of the leasing companies) has suffered from a loss of trust for other reasons too since then.

There was no realistic prospect of RE being profitable without the EI regional franchise. RE's hope, which I understand was expressed frequently and widely inside the company, was that Emerald would fail to get going and the franchise would fall back to RE. They assumed incorrectly that they were the "first reserve" for the EI Regional franchise but they were not - they didn't even make that position on the leader board despite much false hope and big talk throughout the buyout that fell through. If some of the stories about the first potential buyout and then the second one which publicly collapsed are true (and as I don't know they are, I won't post them), it seems like the prospect of a buyout was never credible. In turn that calls the credibility of RE and its parent company into question.

Emerald's licence application hasn't been refused. There is actually no process to refuse an application under the EU rules. The authority - whether it be IAA, LBA, whoever - can say "we don't believe you meet the tests needed for grant of a licence at this time, for these reasons". RE's own application for a UK licence saw exactly the same response only weeks ago - the UK CAA allegedly said that the projections in the business plan weren't credible and sent Stobart away to reconsider. If they had, they'd have been given a licence. That's exactly the same position for Emerald - if it is able to fix the issues, it is given a licence. The authority can't refuse.

So at this time, there is no finality about any of this. Emerald might well be able to come up with whatever the IAA is asking for, get its licence and get going. It's pretty much impossible to say. All that I hear is RE were selling a fantasy about what the future of the airline could look like, and without a buyer, its parent company clearly had no confidence in that fantasy either, and so pulled its support for the airline last Friday.


From what I saw, the goal was actually to make Emerald and EIs life as difficult as possible in terms of any transition if it were to be awarded. This approach by management in SA was one of many that created a false security bubble.

Some of the financials constructed by the interim CFO and management would suggest the airline wasn't a financial basket case but it was very clear that it was.

Regarding buyers, Regional Connect supposedly had funders that kept dropping out and therefore never entered in to contract. The IOM lot as I understand believed they had funding which turned out to be not the case very abruptly when crunch time came. Seems they were a victim rather than directly misled anyone and ultimately led us to where we are today.

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