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apodino
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:34 pm

Southwests official statement said the issue was caused by issues with their third party weather vendor not getting weather to the flight crews. The issue I have with that is American and United both use the same provider, The Weather Company, as Southwest and neither of those airlines had any issues. Talking to people I know, it seems like the issue was with a very old feed that was set up years ago, and everyone who worked on that has left the company so no one in Southwests IT is very familiar with the architecture here.

As for the flight planning system, Southwest is in the process of changing over to a new flight planning system, to replace their current system that runs on Linux. (The Southwest NOC has workstations that have both windows and Linux PCs for this reason)
 
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Aesma
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:37 pm

If your only issue is weather, can't you improvise ? Look at some app or website for rough weather estimates (something professional you can subscribe to quickly if you don't have that backup already), add alternates, tanker some fuel, and off you go ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
apodino
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:03 pm

Aesma wrote:
If your only issue is weather, can't you improvise ? Look at some app or website for rough weather estimates (something professional you can subscribe to quickly if you don't have that backup already), add alternates, tanker some fuel, and off you go ?

FAR part 121 requires actual weather reports and forecasts to be carried on board, so you can’t just improvise. The curious part of this is that the weather company has an iPad app called pilotbrief available. I know American uses this, but I am not sure about Southwest. Without knowing how Southwests EWINS program works, I would think weather briefs off the pilotbrief app would suffice for the required weather. This is why I am a bit skeptical about this being just weather related.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:04 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/tarmac-delays

Shouldn't the tarmac delays fine southwest airlines alot of money? Reading the various Denver media articles It looks like southwsst broke pretty much event tarmac rule having people sit there while they were totally out of control


As far as I know the longest wait was 2.5 hours on Monday night, at one point the airport assisted with hardstand operations to unload aircraft. On Tuesday the wait was mostly 60-90 minutes, with the longest being just over 2 hours. One of the articles states that they were providing drinks onboard.
 
SwissCanuck
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:29 pm

apodino wrote:
Southwests official statement said the issue was caused by issues with their third party weather vendor not getting weather to the flight crews. The issue I have with that is American and United both use the same provider, The Weather Company, as Southwest and neither of those airlines had any issues. Talking to people I know, it seems like the issue was with a very old feed that was set up years ago, and everyone who worked on that has left the company so no one in Southwests IT is very familiar with the architecture here.

As for the flight planning system, Southwest is in the process of changing over to a new flight planning system, to replace their current system that runs on Linux. (The Southwest NOC has workstations that have both windows and Linux PCs for this reason)



As someone who works with weather data providers (public and private), data delivery is tailored to each customer. Delivery method, contents, format, all can be different. Lots of places for things to go wrong that wouldn't affect other customers.
 
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TWA302
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:59 pm

I assume this caused flight cancellations today too. Had two of my daughter's friends coming in from OKC and TPA to STL today. Both are cancelled and I am seeing two other flights cancelled as well. Doesn't make it easy, does it?
 
Scarebus34
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:54 pm

Problems have extended into a third day - over 300 cancellations so far today.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:55 pm

Aesma wrote:
If your only issue is weather, can't you improvise ? Look at some app or website for rough weather estimates (something professional you can subscribe to quickly if you don't have that backup already), add alternates, tanker some fuel, and off you go ?

Lol. No.
 
Elementalism
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:03 pm

vatveng wrote:
Eiszeit wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
SWABIZ is offline right now ( 1417 cdt ) and we have couple travelers in middle of their trips to DAL.

I think the 50% off fare sale may have crashed their system LOL


That would be crazy, there is no way operation critical systems have any connection to a sales system... But sometimes the crazy stuff is not as crazy as we think. :?:


As someone who maintains a (non-aviation) cobbled-together multi-vendor legacy I.T. system that I neither designed nor have the authority to replace, I can say with confidence that systems that have nothing to do with each other and shouldn't have any communication do sometimes cause each other to crash. Yes, it is crazy. And infuriating, and frustrating. A joke I tell at work is that these systems are so bizarrely interconnected in ways they shouldn't be that sometimes when you flip a light switch in a storage closet, the fire hydrant out front explodes.

Really the only way to fix it is to replace everything, all at once. Even if you have access to enough capital to do that, it's incredibly disruptive and the replacement comes with training and teething issues of its own. Often companies decide to stick with the devil you know. But eventually you get to a point where the legacy systems cause more PR disasters than the shareholders will tolerate. Then, and only then, will companies like Southwest replace their legacy systems.



Same thing here. Worse is when trying to standardize and bring it together the funds are never there until it cracks.
 
kiowa
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:07 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
Problems have extended into a third day - over 300 cancellations so far today.



If other airlines are using the same IT, are they having the same meltdown as Southwest?
 
Sooner787
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:04 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
Problems have extended into a third day - over 300 cancellations so far today.



Well, knock on wood... SWABIZ is working. Made 3 booking so far today w/o any issues :) .
 
mcdu
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:23 pm

kiowa wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
Problems have extended into a third day - over 300 cancellations so far today.



If other airlines are using the same IT, are they having the same meltdown as Southwest?


Doesn’t appear to have created the same type is calamity to operations at the other carriers on Monday. The second event on Tuesday was just SWA. The tarmac fines may be huge after the meltdown yesterday.
 
kiowa
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:18 pm

also, why would Southwest ask the FAA to "ground" it's aircraft? Can't the airline just do it when they want or is there a financial benefit to having the government do it? Do they report different on time numbers or maybe not pay out on extensive tarmac delays?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/southwest- ... 1623789211
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:36 pm

kiowa wrote:
also, why would Southwest ask the FAA to "ground" it's aircraft? Can't the airline just do it when they want or is there a financial benefit to having the government do it? Do they report different on time numbers or maybe not pay out on extensive tarmac delays?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/southwest- ... 1623789211


I'm not sure I understand your question. Carriers (all carriers) routinely ask FAA for carrier-specific ground stops, sometimes for IT reasons and sometimes for other reasons like a carrier-specific disruption at a hub. But those ground stops are not a government order. It's a way to help ATC manage traffic. Imagine a situation where the weather was lousy at JFK and Terminal 8 wasn't operational (say because of a fire in the terminal or a building-specific power outage or whatever). Everybody benefits from knowing that AA won't launch any aircraft to JFK so DL, B6, and the others can temporarily have all the slots.
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jetmatt777
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:46 pm

kiowa wrote:
also, why would Southwest ask the FAA to "ground" it's aircraft? Can't the airline just do it when they want or is there a financial benefit to having the government do it? Do they report different on time numbers or maybe not pay out on extensive tarmac delays?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/southwest- ... 1623789211


Because the tower is going to be able to implement a ground stop faster than trying to notify their pilots individually. Some pilots may not notice the ACARS message if they are close to the takeoff runway and are busy with that.
 
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dabpit
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:17 am

bnatraveler wrote:
dtdude wrote:
vatveng wrote:

As someone who maintains a (non-aviation) cobbled-together multi-vendor legacy I.T. system that I neither designed nor have the authority to replace, I can say with confidence that systems that have nothing to do with each other and shouldn't have any communication do sometimes cause each other to crash. Yes, it is crazy. And infuriating, and frustrating. A joke I tell at work is that these systems are so bizarrely interconnected in ways they shouldn't be that sometimes when you flip a light switch in a storage closet, the fire hydrant out front explodes.

Really the only way to fix it is to replace everything, all at once. Even if you have access to enough capital to do that, it's incredibly disruptive and the replacement comes with training and teething issues of its own. Often companies decide to stick with the devil you know. But eventually you get to a point where the legacy systems cause more PR disasters than the shareholders will tolerate. Then, and only then, will companies like Southwest replace their legacy systems.


Southwest's systems are fairly new, IIRC. They switched away from an older proprietary reservations system to Sabre not long ago. I would image this would require significant hardware investment.

But...who knows. This could be a shoddy implementation of Sabre. If could be failed hardware. It could be a WAN connectivity issue (which if done right should NEVER be an issue). Could be lots of things.


Southwest actually swapped AWAY from their Sabre-hosted SAAS system (which has heritage back to Braniff's Cowboy system) to Amadeus. Amadeus is a solid solution and if they were down, you'd see lots of airlines impacted. They also moved away from a very old (mainframe hosted) accounting system to SAP which is also hosted by a third party. Southwest also has spend a huge sum of money to build an alternate/backup data center for their operations. Amadeus isn't hosted in-house, nor is SAP, but they rely on traffic paths that go through their data centers.

The brittle part of the airline, as I understand it, is their dispatch system that was written in house in the late 90s/early 2000s. I think the system is called fetch or rover or something like that. Obviously, it has been substantially updated over time, but I understand that it needs wholesale replacement. Southwest is a much more complex airline now than it was then.

Also, I understand that their passenger revenue accounting system needs work in order to accommodate passenger fare/service purchase transactions in currencies other than USD. Not sure where that stands on the list of replacement priorities.

WN is hosted seperate from other airlines at Amadeus' datacenter. Yes everything goes through the WN data centers located in the States. There have been a number of ongoing issues over the last few years. Unfortunately the Amadeus paltform is not as solid as it use to be. From my understanding (talking to those with direct knowledge) the Amadeus platform is extremly patch worked now-a-days.....so it takes one wrong move to bring the house of cards down.... WN runs a somewhat customized version of the Amadeus platform so if WN's goes down it does not mean other airlines will be impacted and vice versa.
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CALMSP
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:59 am

Appears to be happening again now.
 
AeroAndy
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:06 am

Round 3….
 
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ADent
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:06 am

Wednesday:
More Southwest Flights canceled as airline tries to recover from 2 days of computer problems
https://www.fox4news.com/news/more-sout ... r-problems

That article said 367 cancellations (several others said over 400, and more than 1,000 delays).

A spokesperson for Southwest said the technology problems have been fixed, but the airline is still working to resume normal operations.
 
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Citrus1492
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:09 am

They should have replaced cs2 with SkyPort instead of Amadeus. Oh well.
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Scoreboard
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:15 am

Looks like this is a major outage affecting more than just Southwest - this article quotes AA, Virgin Australia, United and Delta, as well as major Australian banks
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57508349

SW just can't catch a break this week
 
lutfi
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:00 am

32andBelow wrote:
Eiszeit wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
SWABIZ is offline right now ( 1417 cdt ) and we have couple travelers in middle of their trips to DAL.

I think the 50% off fare sale may have crashed their system LOL


That would be crazy, there is no way operation critical systems have any connection to a sales system... But sometimes the crazy stuff is not as crazy as we think. :?:

Everything in an airline is connected to the res system. You have to be able to pull flight manifests to dispatch a flight. The red system IS critical.

Not saying that is what happened but it’s all certainly connected.



Technically you pull the flight manifests from the DCS, not RES. RES doesn't have baggage weights, and includes passengers who booked but didn't show up.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:15 am

Sooner787 wrote:
SWABIZ is offline right now ( 1417 cdt ) and we have couple travelers in middle of their trips to DAL.

I think the 50% off fare sale may have crashed their system LOL


From Sunday to current many Internet companies including Cox & SBC Global, Verizon & other have been having Service issues. Including my company.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:51 am

This is afecting many companies linked to Akamai's content delivery networks (CDNs)

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57508349
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:37 am

Southwest Airlines is dealing with delays and cancellations for a third straight day.

https://www.koco.com/article/southwest- ... s/36757718

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLr8xliXGK8
AC out at LAX to add to their 8 hour wait...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/16/busi ... tions.html

I wanted to read the NY Times article, but it was behind a registration wall.
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Antaras
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:09 am

Having a ATL-DEN flight with WN on June 20th and afraid that my plan would be affected...
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
bigb
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:35 am

apodino wrote:
Aesma wrote:
If your only issue is weather, can't you improvise ? Look at some app or website for rough weather estimates (something professional you can subscribe to quickly if you don't have that backup already), add alternates, tanker some fuel, and off you go ?

FAR part 121 requires actual weather reports and forecasts to be carried on board, so you can’t just improvise. The curious part of this is that the weather company has an iPad app called pilotbrief available. I know American uses this, but I am not sure about Southwest. Without knowing how Southwests EWINS program works, I would think weather briefs off the pilotbrief app would suffice for the required weather. This is why I am a bit skeptical about this being just weather related.


But has to be approved within WN OPSPECs to use a alternate source for weather briefings like pilotbrief.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:43 am

Did WN have a software blockpoint that wasn't quite ready or something?
 
kiowa
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:28 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
Did WN have a software blockpoint that wasn't quite ready or something?



I would think any software update would have been sent to and effected multiple airlines using the same platform. This seems to be a southwest problem.
 
mcdu
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:28 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
Did WN have a software blockpoint that wasn't quite ready or something?


The truth may never be revealed. What is evolving from this is the PR fallout in how SWA responded to the failure. The lack of communication was the common thread I noticed in the traveler reports in the news stories. Customers showed up for three days to never get to their destination. Many spent hundreds or thousands in extra costs on food, hotels or air fare on other carriers.

The test will be to see how long of a memory the affected travelers will have in regards to SWA.
 
slider
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:01 pm

The usual Teflon Southwest has handled this terribly from a corp comm standpoint.

What a real headache for them.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:57 pm

Legit question, do they outsource their IT to third party vendors in the States or some other country? The last organisation I worked for fired all our local IT staff (300 of them) and moved the jobs to India. Consequently, we have suffered IT breakdown twice at our petrol stations and gas depots all over Asia Pacific including airports. The service recovery was horrendous.
 
orlandocfi
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:07 pm

slider wrote:
The usual Teflon Southwest has handled this terribly from a corp comm standpoint.

What a real headache for them.


I have a feeling swa was caught flat-footed with this meltdown. 50th anniversary week was supposed to be a feel-good PR bonanza. We can only hope that this will be an opportunity to identify a pretty significant weakness and make a commitment to fixing what needs to be fixed. If swa intends to be a 1000+ aircraft juggernaut by 2025, things will have to change!
 
asteriskceo
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:34 pm

orlandocfi wrote:
slider wrote:
The usual Teflon Southwest has handled this terribly from a corp comm standpoint.

What a real headache for them.


I have a feeling swa was caught flat-footed with this meltdown. 50th anniversary week was supposed to be a feel-good PR bonanza. We can only hope that this will be an opportunity to identify a pretty significant weakness and make a commitment to fixing what needs to be fixed. If swa intends to be a 1000+ aircraft juggernaut by 2025, things will have to change!

But didn’t they have a similar, even more severe meltdown a few summers ago? Did they learn from that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
2eng2efficient
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:40 pm

slider wrote:
The usual Teflon Southwest has handled this terribly from a corp comm standpoint.

What a real headache for them.


No matter how proud they are, airlines should be reminded that 90%+ of customers could care less about an airline’s birthday. When extreme IRROPS occur, the normal PR activities should be suspended. All it does is anger customers. The feedback on Twitter is very bad - every single “Happy Birthday to Us” tweet has at least a hundred angry customers replying.

And then there is the guy bitterly replying with “you agreed to this in the contract of carriage” to displaced customer tweets. Doubt that fellow is a WN employee, but he certainly isn’t helping the customer service effort.
 
AMALH747430
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:58 pm

2eng2efficient wrote:
slider wrote:
The usual Teflon Southwest has handled this terribly from a corp comm standpoint.

What a real headache for them.


No matter how proud they are, airlines should be reminded that 90%+ of customers could care less about an airline’s birthday. When extreme IRROPS occur, the normal PR activities should be suspended. All it does is anger customers. The feedback on Twitter is very bad - every single “Happy Birthday to Us” tweet has at least a hundred angry customers replying.

And then there is the guy bitterly replying with “you agreed to this in the contract of carriage” to displaced customer tweets. Doubt that fellow is a WN employee, but he certainly isn’t helping the customer service effort.


Back in 2013 I was at a football game in Arlington and met a friend of a friend that worked for WN. We struck up a conversation and I mentioned the strides DL had been making on the customer service and operations/logistics front. He scoffed at that, told me I was an idiot, and dismissed DL as a worthy competitor. I couldn’t believe the arrogance!

Well now it’s 2021 and not only did DL take the JD Power Award (I understand all of the complexities there and some people don’t see how that is conceivable) but WN is dealing with an IT meltdown that they’re handling very poorly. Friends and colleagues here in Amarillo that are die hard “I only fly Southwest” people are apprehensive about flying with them in the near term. I actually heard one (who loathes AA) say “I’m so glad we’re on AA for our vacation in a few weeks.”

One of the reasons I stopped flying WN as much a few years ago was their incompetence and arrogance when it comes to IRPOS and recovery.
 
orlandocfi
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:08 pm

2eng2efficient wrote:
slider wrote:
The usual Teflon Southwest has handled this terribly from a corp comm standpoint.

What a real headache for them.


No matter how proud they are, airlines should be reminded that 90%+ of customers could care less about an airline’s birthday. When extreme IRROPS occur, the normal PR activities should be suspended. All it does is anger customers. The feedback on Twitter is very bad - every single “Happy Birthday to Us” tweet has at least a hundred angry customers replying.

And then there is the guy bitterly replying with “you agreed to this in the contract of carriage” to displaced customer tweets. Doubt that fellow is a WN employee, but he certainly isn’t helping the customer service effort.


Absolutely. Trying to redirect the narrative to anniversary celebrations is a bad look when there’s an continuing operational meltdown.
 
dtdude
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:17 pm

I'm no PR expert. I'm just a guy.....but from my viewpoint the best thing Southwest can do PR wise is to just issue an honest press release acknowledging and apologizing for the awful last week. In it they need to lay out what happened, what they are going to do to prevent it again, and what they are going to do to help make it right by their upset customers.

It's not rocket science.
 
slider
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:53 pm

Agree on the responses about their corp comm.

WN really failed to read the room while yakking about their 50th anniversary.

And given the stories of a total information vacuum, planes that had long tarmac delays, cancellations, long delays, no intel, what a really bad look.
 
AMALH747430
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:41 pm

slider wrote:
Agree on the responses about their corp comm.

WN really failed to read the room while yakking about their 50th anniversary.

And given the stories of a total information vacuum, planes that had long tarmac delays, cancellations, long delays, no intel, what a really bad look.


This really is the biggest part of the problem and an issue that I already observed at WN during IROPS. WN is great when things are running like normal, but they don’t handle IROPS very well. They also don’t communicate very well with passengers in these situations.

I’ve been at DAL with a gate load of passengers past departure time and no announcements about what’s going on. Their system also seems to struggle catching misconnects and re-routing passengers. Their strategy of which flights they hold and which ones they let go seems haphazard. Other airlines will protect me on later flights while keeping my seat on the original flights and work to get me home. Sometimes WN has the attitude that you should feel grateful that you have the privilege of flying on them. Not always, but more often that expected.
 
alasizon
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:09 pm

bigb wrote:
apodino wrote:
Aesma wrote:
If your only issue is weather, can't you improvise ? Look at some app or website for rough weather estimates (something professional you can subscribe to quickly if you don't have that backup already), add alternates, tanker some fuel, and off you go ?

FAR part 121 requires actual weather reports and forecasts to be carried on board, so you can’t just improvise. The curious part of this is that the weather company has an iPad app called pilotbrief available. I know American uses this, but I am not sure about Southwest. Without knowing how Southwests EWINS program works, I would think weather briefs off the pilotbrief app would suffice for the required weather. This is why I am a bit skeptical about this being just weather related.


But has to be approved within WN OPSPECs to use a alternate source for weather briefings like pilotbrief.


Understanding from what I've heard is they had the digital copy available on their iPads but they are not approved to go without a hard copy weather packet or a verbal/ACARS message from their dispatcher as the FAA hasn't approved them to be entirely electronic.

For what it's worth, the third internet meltdown they had on Wednesday night wasn't just them, AA and a number of banks and other institutions went down
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
WNbob
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:37 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
Other airlines will protect me on later flights while keeping my seat on the original flights and work to get me home.


^This would be great if the carrier maintain spared inventories, which am surprised in this age of all just-in-time. Surely, Legacies that Interlink, SW does not, have a leg up during IROP.
 
kiowa
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:53 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/tarmac-delays

Shouldn't the tarmac delays fine southwest airlines alot of money? Reading the various Denver media articles It looks like southwsst broke pretty much event tarmac rule having people sit there while they were totally out of control


I was wondering the same thing
 
FlyEndeavorAir
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Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:03 am

WN is a nightmare when it comes to IRROPS. Not surprising that their operation went to you know what. What is surprising is their gloating and push on social media to celebrate their birthday by a select few while many were still stranded. That wouldn't have happened on the WN of yesteryear but apparently happens at the new WN. Poor Herb is rolling in his grave.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2633
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:59 pm

FlyEndeavorAir wrote:
WN is a nightmare when it comes to IRROPS. Not surprising that their operation went to you know what. What is surprising is their gloating and push on social media to celebrate their birthday by a select few while many were still stranded. That wouldn't have happened on the WN of yesteryear but apparently happens at the new WN. Poor Herb is rolling in his grave.

Herb's WN was gone about 20 years ago.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15188
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:16 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
slider wrote:
Agree on the responses about their corp comm.

WN really failed to read the room while yakking about their 50th anniversary.

And given the stories of a total information vacuum, planes that had long tarmac delays, cancellations, long delays, no intel, what a really bad look.


This really is the biggest part of the problem and an issue that I already observed at WN during IROPS. WN is great when things are running like normal, but they don’t handle IROPS very well. They also don’t communicate very well with passengers in these situations.

I’ve been at DAL with a gate load of passengers past departure time and no announcements about what’s going on. Their system also seems to struggle catching misconnects and re-routing passengers. Their strategy of which flights they hold and which ones they let go seems haphazard. Other airlines will protect me on later flights while keeping my seat on the original flights and work to get me home. Sometimes WN has the attitude that you should feel grateful that you have the privilege of flying on them. Not always, but more often that expected.


I fly WN a ton (I've held Companion Pass on and off), and this simply has not been my experience. I can think of scads of times when agents went out of the way to help me, and the really odd experiences - like the time we deboarded a 733 and got on a 73G at a snowy MDW so they didn't have to bump so many passengers - featured good communication. Every carrier drops the ball on IROPS once in a while but I'm not sure WN is markedly worse in that regard. And the simplicity of WN's systems makes some things much easier - for instance, flight cancellations and refunds in the app require a couple of clicks and refund money shows up in a few days, unlike the weeks long, teeth pulling process that AA still employed last time I had a cancellation on them.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
dtdude
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:06 pm

Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:26 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
slider wrote:
Agree on the responses about their corp comm.

WN really failed to read the room while yakking about their 50th anniversary.

And given the stories of a total information vacuum, planes that had long tarmac delays, cancellations, long delays, no intel, what a really bad look.


This really is the biggest part of the problem and an issue that I already observed at WN during IROPS. WN is great when things are running like normal, but they don’t handle IROPS very well. They also don’t communicate very well with passengers in these situations.

I’ve been at DAL with a gate load of passengers past departure time and no announcements about what’s going on. Their system also seems to struggle catching misconnects and re-routing passengers. Their strategy of which flights they hold and which ones they let go seems haphazard. Other airlines will protect me on later flights while keeping my seat on the original flights and work to get me home. Sometimes WN has the attitude that you should feel grateful that you have the privilege of flying on them. Not always, but more often that expected.


I fly WN a ton (I've held Companion Pass on and off), and this simply has not been my experience. I can think of scads of times when agents went out of the way to help me, and the really odd experiences - like the time we deboarded a 733 and got on a 73G at a snowy MDW so they didn't have to bump so many passengers - featured good communication. Every carrier drops the ball on IROPS once in a while but I'm not sure WN is markedly worse in that regard. And the simplicity of WN's systems makes some things much easier - for instance, flight cancellations and refunds in the app require a couple of clicks and refund money shows up in a few days, unlike the weeks long, teeth pulling process that AA still employed last time I had a cancellation on them.


This has been my experience anytime something went wrong with a WN flight I was on. They were proactive, communicated, and took care of us.

That said, something wrong with a flight, or a handful of flights is far different than a system wide issue.
 
JHCRJ700
Posts: 243
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:51 pm

Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:15 pm

FlyEndeavorAir wrote:
WN is a nightmare when it comes to IRROPS.


As someone who worked for WN briefly I can confirm this from first hand experience.
It's the power and the glory, It's a war in paradise, A Cinderella story, On a tumble of the dice
 
traindoc
Posts: 363
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:35 am

Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:18 pm

WN has canceled a lot of flights to/from SAT today! Another IT issue?
 
kiowa
Posts: 873
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Southwest faces another IT outage, all flights stopped.

Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:20 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
FlyEndeavorAir wrote:
WN is a nightmare when it comes to IRROPS. Not surprising that their operation went to you know what. What is surprising is their gloating and push on social media to celebrate their birthday by a select few while many were still stranded. That wouldn't have happened on the WN of yesteryear but apparently happens at the new WN. Poor Herb is rolling in his grave.

Herb's WN was gone about 20 years ago.


Very true! Herb was a class act. WN today, not so much.

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