N776AU wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

Polot wrote:

I don’t know why you guys assume in PR that DL would announce the original the source of the aircraft. They would just announce they are buying/leasing secondhand 737s from lessor X and probably not mention Lionair once in the press release.

Aviation publications and us would know, but most of the general public does not read those articles nor care enough to do further research.

Correct, most people wouldn’t even know or care what type of plane they were on let alone who previously operated it. If pax perceptions were really an issue the MAX would never have flown again but this is not the case.

I noticed flying a MAX with Southwest a couple weeks ago that the crew did their damndest to portray the aircraft as a 737-800. Seems deceitful to me.

N649DL wrote:

fanoftristars wrote:

Ugggghhhh... No more 737-900ers for Delta! Delta configured that plane so badly, I'd be very sad if this rumor is true. But please, bring on more A350s!

Worse than United though? At least DL has AVOD installed.

From what I remember (my memory is hazy so I could be wrong) but DL didn't really seek out the 739ER, Boeing gave them favorable pricing terms. When they took delivery of them, they were acquiring second hand 717s and M90s left and right. Then again, they do have 128 of them in service so maybe not. I just checked and didn't realize they had so many.

I think the intent was for them to replace the oldest 757s from the Mid/Late 1980s by introducing the 739ER. The new A321s seem to largely help accelerate the retirements of the M88s and M90s (along with the decision to reconfigure and keep around older A320s.) At one point, DL was going to ditch quite a few of the A320s (which was why they didn't install AVOD initially and then decided to keep them and do a "Version 2" of the retrofit program.) Same with the 757s and they ended up retrofitting and keeping quite a few frames around. There are some in the fleet with brand new interiors which are pushing over 30 years in age.

DL's fleet strategy has changed a lot over the last decade so it wouldn't surprise me if they were looking to acquire used aircraft once again (probably to start replacing the 717s). They did so a few years ago by acquiring some of the youngest 757s ever built from 2004-2005.

Boeing757100 wrote:

UA444 wrote:

Can they bring back the 777s? Only been in the desert for a few months and have brand new interiors.

Most of them were sold to this entity called Mammoth. No idea what they're gonna do with them. Though I agree it would be nice to see the 777 flying in DL colors again.

I doubt the 777s are coming back with the A350 in place. DL only had 18 of them anyway and were essentially a sub-fleet. However, if DL was ever to acquired used 73Gs, I could see them pulling all 10 back into service (should they still be around in storage).

sxf24 wrote:

N649DL wrote:

fanoftristars wrote:

Ugggghhhh... No more 737-900ers for Delta! Delta configured that plane so badly, I'd be very sad if this rumor is true. But please, bring on more A350s!

Worse than United though? At least DL has AVOD installed.

From what I remember (my memory is hazy so I could be wrong) but DL didn't really seek out the 739ER, Boeing gave them favorable pricing terms. When they took delivery of them, they were acquiring second hand 717s and M90s left and right. Then again, they do have 128 of them in service so maybe not. I just checked and didn't realize they had so many.

I think the intent was for them to replace the oldest 757s from the Mid/Late 1980s by introducing the 739ER. The new A321s seem to largely help accelerate the retirements of the M88s and M90s (along with the decision to reconfigure and keep around older A320s.) At one point, DL was going to ditch quite a few of the A320s (which was why they didn't install AVOD initially and then decided to keep them and do a "Version 2" of the retrofit program.) Same with the 757s and they ended up retrofitting and keeping quite a few frames around. There are some in the fleet with brand new interiors which are pushing over 30 years in age.

DL's fleet strategy has changed a lot over the last decade so it wouldn't surprise me if they were looking to acquire used aircraft once again (probably to start replacing the 717s). They did so a few years ago by acquiring some of the youngest 757s ever built from 2004-2005.

Boeing757100 wrote:

Most of them were sold to this entity called Mammoth. No idea what they're gonna do with them. Though I agree it would be nice to see the 777 flying in DL colors again.

I doubt the 777s are coming back with the A350 in place. DL only had 18 of them anyway and were essentially a sub-fleet. However, if DL was ever to acquired used 73Gs, I could see them pulling all 10 back into service (should they still be around in storage).

Delta absolutely sought out the 737-900ER. While they got a good price, based on what they’ve financed with lessors, it was not the lowest price available.

I know it’s hard to accept, but most airlines buy Boeing aircraft because it is the right plane for the mission and delivers value. It’s the same reason they also buy Airbus.

N649DL wrote:

fanoftristars wrote:

Ugggghhhh... No more 737-900ers for Delta! Delta configured that plane so badly, I'd be very sad if this rumor is true. But please, bring on more A350s!

Worse than United though? At least DL has AVOD installed.

From what I remember (my memory is hazy so I could be wrong) but DL didn't really seek out the 739ER, Boeing gave them favorable pricing terms. When they took delivery of them, they were acquiring second hand 717s and M90s left and right. Then again, they do have 128 of them in service so maybe not. I just checked and didn't realize they had so many.

I think the intent was for them to replace the oldest 757s from the Mid/Late 1980s by introducing the 739ER. The new A321s seem to largely help accelerate the retirements of the M88s and M90s (along with the decision to reconfigure and keep around older A320s.) At one point, DL was going to ditch quite a few of the A320s (which was why they didn't install AVOD initially and then decided to keep them and do a "Version 2" of the retrofit program.) Same with the 757s and they ended up retrofitting and keeping quite a few frames around. There are some in the fleet with brand new interiors which are pushing over 30 years in age.

DL's fleet strategy has changed a lot over the last decade so it wouldn't surprise me if they were looking to acquire used aircraft once again (probably to start replacing the 717s). They did so a few years ago by acquiring some of the youngest 757s ever built from 2004-2005.

Boeing757100 wrote:

UA444 wrote:

Can they bring back the 777s? Only been in the desert for a few months and have brand new interiors.

Most of them were sold to this entity called Mammoth. No idea what they're gonna do with them. Though I agree it would be nice to see the 777 flying in DL colors again.

I doubt the 777s are coming back with the A350 in place. DL only had 18 of them anyway and were essentially a sub-fleet. However, if DL was ever to acquired used 73Gs, I could see them pulling all 10 back into service (should they still be around in storage).

zkojq wrote:

Do we know for a fact that it's 737-900s that are being evaluated? There's a lot of not-very-old Norwegian 737-800s that are in the process of being returned to various lessors.

777Mech wrote:

zkojq wrote:

Do we know for a fact that it's 737-900s that are being evaluated? There's a lot of not-very-old Norwegian 737-800s that are in the process of being returned to various lessors.

Why get a 738 when you can get a 739 for the same price if not cheaper? It's going to be 739s.

STT757 wrote:

SunsetLimited wrote:

Norwegian MAX 8’s?

Yeah I don’t think it’s 73NGs, they just retired ten relatively new 73Gs. I’m guessing 737-8 Max, used or perhaps white tails?

N649DL wrote:

777Mech wrote:

zkojq wrote:

Do we know for a fact that it's 737-900s that are being evaluated? There's a lot of not-very-old Norwegian 737-800s that are in the process of being returned to various lessors.

Why get a 738 when you can get a 739 for the same price if not cheaper? It's going to be 739s.

Because the 739s performance is garbage? Especially with regards to cargo capacity?

OA412 wrote:

??? The 737-700 wasnt even available until a decade after the merger with Western. DL inherited 737-300s from WA.

Polot wrote:

N649DL wrote:

777Mech wrote:

Why get a 738 when you can get a 739 for the same price if not cheaper? It's going to be 739s.

Because the 739s performance is garbage? Especially with regards to cargo capacity?

??? The 757 and A321 are the only narrow bodies that you can fly today that has more cargo capacity than the 739. If the A321 has aux tanks installed capacity is similar if not less.

The 739’s performance is only complete garbage from short runways. Most major airports in the US do not have runway issues, and the plane is rarely being flown at MTOW. Do you honestly think a 739’s performance is stressed on a 1 hr ATL-BNA flight for example?

ZazuPIT wrote:

N776AU wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

Correct, most people wouldn’t even know or care what type of plane they were on let alone who previously operated it. If pax perceptions were really an issue the MAX would never have flown again but this is not the case.

I noticed flying a MAX with Southwest a couple weeks ago that the crew did their damndest to portray the aircraft as a 737-800. Seems deceitful to me.

Exactly what did they say to give that impression? I flew on one recently as well. The model type was not even mentioned by any crew member.

Western727 wrote:

Polot wrote:

N649DL wrote:

Because the 739s performance is garbage? Especially with regards to cargo capacity?

??? The 757 and A321 are the only narrow bodies that you can fly today that has more cargo capacity than the 739. If the A321 has aux tanks installed capacity is similar if not less.

The 739’s performance is only complete garbage from short runways. Most major airports in the US do not have runway issues, and the plane is rarely being flown at MTOW. Do you honestly think a 739’s performance is stressed on a 1 hr ATL-BNA flight for example?

That's my understanding as well. There are only a select few US airports that cannot handle a 739 at MTOW. DL flies multiple 739s ATL-SEA, for example. I imagine the CASM is ideal on these flights.

Alitalia744 wrote:

OA412 wrote:

??? The 737-700 wasnt even available until a decade after the merger with Western. DL inherited 737-300s from WA.

73G was an internal Delta code for a batch of 737-300s I believe at first.

FluidFlow wrote:

Western727 wrote:

Polot wrote:

??? The 757 and A321 are the only narrow bodies that you can fly today that has more cargo capacity than the 739. If the A321 has aux tanks installed capacity is similar if not less.

The 739’s performance is only complete garbage from short runways. Most major airports in the US do not have runway issues, and the plane is rarely being flown at MTOW. Do you honestly think a 739’s performance is stressed on a 1 hr ATL-BNA flight for example?

That's my understanding as well. There are only a select few US airports that cannot handle a 739 at MTOW. DL flies multiple 739s ATL-SEA, for example. I imagine the CASM is ideal on these flights.

For the US the 739 Performance was never really an issue but the poor sales outside show the real problem the 739 faced. This is just a small sample of Italian airports where the 739ER would struggle:

Catania
Florence
Milano Linate
Naples
Olbia
Rome Ciampino
Venice

Now here we see why we have almost no 739s in Europe (IIRC KLM has a hand full). This are 7 medium to large airports that you can not use with a 739ER (and that is only in Italy). So operating 9ERs would give headaches to scheduling...

Polot wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

Western727 wrote:

That's my understanding as well. There are only a select few US airports that cannot handle a 739 at MTOW. DL flies multiple 739s ATL-SEA, for example. I imagine the CASM is ideal on these flights.

For the US the 739 Performance was never really an issue but the poor sales outside show the real problem the 739 faced. This is just a small sample of Italian airports where the 739ER would struggle:

Catania
Florence
Milano Linate
Naples
Olbia
Rome Ciampino
Venice

Now here we see why we have almost no 739s in Europe (IIRC KLM has a hand full). This are 7 medium to large airports that you can not use with a 739ER (and that is only in Italy). So operating 9ERs would give headaches to scheduling...

A 739ER has no issue for most European flights from most of those airports. (I mean VCE??? With its ~11,000’ runway? How much runway do you think a 739ER needs for an intra-European flight???). KLM in fact has regularly flown the 739 to at least one of those airports (LIN).

You see almost no 739s in Europe because most European airlines are A320 family operators.

deltaguy767 wrote:

Polot wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

For the US the 739 Performance was never really an issue but the poor sales outside show the real problem the 739 faced. This is just a small sample of Italian airports where the 739ER would struggle:

Catania
Florence
Milano Linate
Naples
Olbia
Rome Ciampino
Venice

Now here we see why we have almost no 739s in Europe (IIRC KLM has a hand full). This are 7 medium to large airports that you can not use with a 739ER (and that is only in Italy). So operating 9ERs would give headaches to scheduling...

A 739ER has no issue for most European flights from most of those airports. (I mean VCE??? With its ~11,000’ runway? How much runway do you think a 739ER needs for an intra-European flight???). KLM in fact has regularly flown the 739 to at least one of those airports (LIN).

You see almost no 739s in Europe because most European airlines are A320 family operators.

Not endorsing the original comments re VCE per se, however it's not just runway length as the only critical variable regrading operational parameters. Certain climbout performance could be required due to terrain or local procedures that could disqualify it as well as crosswind component or other weather phenomena (i.e. density altitude, temp, humidity)

Polot wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

Western727 wrote:

That's my understanding as well. There are only a select few US airports that cannot handle a 739 at MTOW. DL flies multiple 739s ATL-SEA, for example. I imagine the CASM is ideal on these flights.

For the US the 739 Performance was never really an issue but the poor sales outside show the real problem the 739 faced. This is just a small sample of Italian airports where the 739ER would struggle:

Catania
Florence
Milano Linate
Naples
Olbia
Rome Ciampino
Venice

Now here we see why we have almost no 739s in Europe (IIRC KLM has a hand full). This are 7 medium to large airports that you can not use with a 739ER (and that is only in Italy). So operating 9ERs would give headaches to scheduling...

A 739ER has no issue for most European flights from most of those airports. (I mean VCE??? With its ~11,000’ runway? How much runway do you think a 739ER needs for an intra-European flight???). KLM in fact has regularly flown the 739 to at least one of those airports (LIN).

You see almost no 739s in Europe because most European airlines are A320 family operators.

FluidFlow wrote:

Polot wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

For the US the 739 Performance was never really an issue but the poor sales outside show the real problem the 739 faced. This is just a small sample of Italian airports where the 739ER would struggle:

Catania
Florence
Milano Linate
Naples
Olbia
Rome Ciampino
Venice

Now here we see why we have almost no 739s in Europe (IIRC KLM has a hand full). This are 7 medium to large airports that you can not use with a 739ER (and that is only in Italy). So operating 9ERs would give headaches to scheduling...

A 739ER has no issue for most European flights from most of those airports. (I mean VCE??? With its ~11,000’ runway? How much runway do you think a 739ER needs for an intra-European flight???). KLM in fact has regularly flown the 739 to at least one of those airports (LIN).

You see almost no 739s in Europe because most European airlines are A320 family operators.

Must have missed the VCE runway, I only had the short one in mind. The actual problem stays the same though, airlines buy the aircraft for their maximal take off performance even if rarely needed. On top of that Europe and other markets are not comparable to the USA. Many carriers in Europe have only one hub and need the aircraft to be able to fly every possible route. So one day it is ZRH-FUE the next day it is ZRH-Linate, this are extreme cases (not real cases, but that is taken into consideration). The carriers can not afford to have subfleets just for certain pairs or that only work on certain routes. That is why we also do not see 737 and 320 at the same carriers in Europe (in general). The European carriers need all rounders that work everywhere, hence the popularity of the 737-800/MAX-8 or the 320/321.

Polot wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

Polot wrote:

A 739ER has no issue for most European flights from most of those airports. (I mean VCE??? With its ~11,000’ runway? How much runway do you think a 739ER needs for an intra-European flight???). KLM in fact has regularly flown the 739 to at least one of those airports (LIN).

You see almost no 739s in Europe because most European airlines are A320 family operators.

Must have missed the VCE runway, I only had the short one in mind. The actual problem stays the same though, airlines buy the aircraft for their maximal take off performance even if rarely needed. On top of that Europe and other markets are not comparable to the USA. Many carriers in Europe have only one hub and need the aircraft to be able to fly every possible route. So one day it is ZRH-FUE the next day it is ZRH-Linate, this are extreme cases (not real cases, but that is taken into consideration). The carriers can not afford to have subfleets just for certain pairs or that only work on certain routes. That is why we also do not see 737 and 320 at the same carriers in Europe (in general). The European carriers need all rounders that work everywhere, hence the popularity of the 737-800/MAX-8 or the 320/321.

US airlines like all-rounders too. The reason EU has less split fleets is because European airline’s are generally much smaller than US airlines. It’s only when you look at the entire collective groups (eg LH group, AF/KLM/IAG etc) that the fleet sizes approach parity. LH (the airline) for example has only about 190 narrow bodies in their mainline fleet…Delta has about 650.

UA, for example, has zero A321s and only a limited domestic 757 operation yet has very few domestic routes that a 739 can’t do (and most of the ones 739s can’t do would be a struggle for the A321 as well).

Western727 wrote:

Polot wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

Must have missed the VCE runway, I only had the short one in mind. The actual problem stays the same though, airlines buy the aircraft for their maximal take off performance even if rarely needed. On top of that Europe and other markets are not comparable to the USA. Many carriers in Europe have only one hub and need the aircraft to be able to fly every possible route. So one day it is ZRH-FUE the next day it is ZRH-Linate, this are extreme cases (not real cases, but that is taken into consideration). The carriers can not afford to have subfleets just for certain pairs or that only work on certain routes. That is why we also do not see 737 and 320 at the same carriers in Europe (in general). The European carriers need all rounders that work everywhere, hence the popularity of the 737-800/MAX-8 or the 320/321.

US airlines like all-rounders too. The reason EU has less split fleets is because European airline’s are generally much smaller than US airlines. It’s only when you look at the entire collective groups (eg LH group, AF/KLM/IAG etc) that the fleet sizes approach parity. LH (the airline) for example has only about 190 narrow bodies in their mainline fleet…Delta has about 650.

UA, for example, has zero A321s and only a limited domestic 757 operation yet has very few domestic routes that a 739 can’t do (and most of the ones 739s can’t do would be a struggle for the A321 as well).

Great insight. Polot: does that 190 figure include Germanwings or are you specifying only LH itself, as I suspect you are?

Polot wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

Polot wrote:

A 739ER has no issue for most European flights from most of those airports. (I mean VCE??? With its ~11,000’ runway? How much runway do you think a 739ER needs for an intra-European flight???). KLM in fact has regularly flown the 739 to at least one of those airports (LIN).

You see almost no 739s in Europe because most European airlines are A320 family operators.

Must have missed the VCE runway, I only had the short one in mind. The actual problem stays the same though, airlines buy the aircraft for their maximal take off performance even if rarely needed. On top of that Europe and other markets are not comparable to the USA. Many carriers in Europe have only one hub and need the aircraft to be able to fly every possible route. So one day it is ZRH-FUE the next day it is ZRH-Linate, this are extreme cases (not real cases, but that is taken into consideration). The carriers can not afford to have subfleets just for certain pairs or that only work on certain routes. That is why we also do not see 737 and 320 at the same carriers in Europe (in general). The European carriers need all rounders that work everywhere, hence the popularity of the 737-800/MAX-8 or the 320/321.

US airlines like all-rounders too. The reason EU has less split fleets is because European airline’s are generally much smaller than US airlines. It’s only when you look at the entire collective groups (eg LH group, AF/KLM/IAG etc) that the fleet sizes approach parity. LH (the airline) for example has only about 190 narrow bodies in their mainline fleet…Delta has about 650.

UA, for example, has zero A321s and only a limited domestic 757 operation yet has very few domestic routes that a 739 can’t do (and most of the ones 739s can’t do would be a struggle for the A321 as well).

FluidFlow wrote:

Polot wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

Must have missed the VCE runway, I only had the short one in mind. The actual problem stays the same though, airlines buy the aircraft for their maximal take off performance even if rarely needed. On top of that Europe and other markets are not comparable to the USA. Many carriers in Europe have only one hub and need the aircraft to be able to fly every possible route. So one day it is ZRH-FUE the next day it is ZRH-Linate, this are extreme cases (not real cases, but that is taken into consideration). The carriers can not afford to have subfleets just for certain pairs or that only work on certain routes. That is why we also do not see 737 and 320 at the same carriers in Europe (in general). The European carriers need all rounders that work everywhere, hence the popularity of the 737-800/MAX-8 or the 320/321.

US airlines like all-rounders too. The reason EU has less split fleets is because European airline’s are generally much smaller than US airlines. It’s only when you look at the entire collective groups (eg LH group, AF/KLM/IAG etc) that the fleet sizes approach parity. LH (the airline) for example has only about 190 narrow bodies in their mainline fleet…Delta has about 650.

UA, for example, has zero A321s and only a limited domestic 757 operation yet has very few domestic routes that a 739 can’t do (and most of the ones 739s can’t do would be a struggle for the A321 as well).

Exactly so there was never really a chance for 739s in Europe just due to the design deficits and the market dynamics. The 739 did not bring any benefits to the 737 operators in Europe only drawbacks. Almost no flag carrier is operating 737s out of their main hub (besides KLM), but we have a lot of LCC/ULCCs that use it and the size of the 739 did not bring any benefits (it was too small, the extra seats would only increase the FA limit).

In the US, where the seat for First is way more premium, the 739 size made sense, everywhere else not. Combined with the take off performance issues it was just not a good aircraft.

RyanairGuru wrote:

The big saving grace of the United frames is the mid-cabin lav between coach and first. It means that coach pax aren’t either stranded from the lavs for half the flight or have to go through first.

FluidFlow wrote:

Must have missed the VCE runway, I only had the short one in mind. The actual problem stays the same though, airlines buy the aircraft for their maximal take off performance even if rarely needed. On top of that Europe and other markets are not comparable to the USA. Many carriers in Europe have only one hub and need the aircraft to be able to fly every possible route. So one day it is ZRH-FUE the next day it is ZRH-Linate, this are extreme cases (not real cases, but that is taken into consideration). The carriers can not afford to have subfleets just for certain pairs or that only work on certain routes. That is why we also do not see 737 and 320 at the same carriers in Europe (in general). The European carriers need all rounders that work everywhere, hence the popularity of the 737-800/MAX-8 or the 320/321.

Revelation wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

Must have missed the VCE runway, I only had the short one in mind. The actual problem stays the same though, airlines buy the aircraft for their maximal take off performance even if rarely needed. On top of that Europe and other markets are not comparable to the USA. Many carriers in Europe have only one hub and need the aircraft to be able to fly every possible route. So one day it is ZRH-FUE the next day it is ZRH-Linate, this are extreme cases (not real cases, but that is taken into consideration). The carriers can not afford to have subfleets just for certain pairs or that only work on certain routes. That is why we also do not see 737 and 320 at the same carriers in Europe (in general). The European carriers need all rounders that work everywhere, hence the popularity of the 737-800/MAX-8 or the 320/321.

Yet somehow MoL is saying FR wants to take 100 MAX-10s. Should be an eye opener for many.

DLASFlyer wrote:

Supposedly Thursday is the day.

rbavfan wrote:

STT757 wrote:

SunsetLimited wrote:

Norwegian MAX 8’s?

Yeah I don’t think it’s 73NGs, they just retired ten relatively new 73Gs. I’m guessing 737-8 Max, used or perhaps white tails?

New? The 73G's were from Western Airlines merger that got them the SLC hub. But then again DC-9's from NW were kept.

keesje wrote:

It seems Delta is happy with the 737-900ER, the fleet is just 5 yrs old on average. They took a lot in 2018-2019. They (TechOps) have a large CFM pool & capability & can overhaul / standardize the aircraft when they come in. A longer term investment considering Delta will be flying 737-900ER's for the next 20 years.


source : wiki

On the A350s, good deal if they have the cash, after phasing out their 777 fleet last year. Restoring business on the Pacific with the cargo capable long range A350s. https://insideflyer.com/2020/05/17/delt ... 777-fleet/

N649DL wrote:

777Mech wrote:

zkojq wrote:

Do we know for a fact that it's 737-900s that are being evaluated? There's a lot of not-very-old Norwegian 737-800s that are in the process of being returned to various lessors.

Why get a 738 when you can get a 739 for the same price if not cheaper? It's going to be 739s.

Because the 739s performance is garbage? Especially with regards to cargo capacity?

777Mech wrote:

Yeah, I'm not buying that. DL obviously thinks you're wrong too. You're going to get a lower CASM machine at a stupid low price, that's perfect for their short to mid-haul routes. They a rent going to carry much cargo on those routes anyways. It's not like it's flying to LHR.

flyboy80 wrote:

The Delta 739 configuration is terrible. I don’t understand why American took so much flack about oasis and densifying when Delta had already been doing it. DL is the only U.S. carrier I can think of that uses the half size forward galley on the 739ER, you would think that would lend more floor space, but even in first class it feels tight for 20 seats. To make matters worse, the plane does a lot of 3 plus hour hauls. Let’s be honest, if it wasn’t for those PTVs people would be so much more critical about the DL experience.

jbs2886 wrote:

DLASFlyer wrote:

Supposedly Thursday is the day.

Is this still the case?

LawAndOrder wrote:

flyboy80 wrote:

The Delta 739 configuration is terrible. I don’t understand why American took so much flack about oasis and densifying when Delta had already been doing it. DL is the only U.S. carrier I can think of that uses the half size forward galley on the 739ER, you would think that would lend more floor space, but even in first class it feels tight for 20 seats. To make matters worse, the plane does a lot of 3 plus hour hauls. Let’s be honest, if it wasn’t for those PTVs people would be so much more critical about the DL experience.

What does the galley have to do with customer experience? The 739 lopa is very efficient for delta but the average seat pitch is still higher than oasis. Add to that the ptvs it make for a good experience. I think the misstep was the bathroom. Some of them are approaching their midlife refresh.

LawAndOrder wrote:

flyboy80 wrote:

The Delta 739 configuration is terrible. I don’t understand why American took so much flack about oasis and densifying when Delta had already been doing it. DL is the only U.S. carrier I can think of that uses the half size forward galley on the 739ER, you would think that would lend more floor space, but even in first class it feels tight for 20 seats. To make matters worse, the plane does a lot of 3 plus hour hauls. Let’s be honest, if it wasn’t for those PTVs people would be so much more critical about the DL experience.

What does the galley have to do with customer experience? The 739 lopa is very efficient for delta but the average seat pitch is still higher than oasis. Add to that the ptvs it make for a good experience. I think the misstep was the bathroom. Some of them are approaching their midlife refresh.

keesje wrote:

It seems Delta is happy with the 737-900ER, the fleet is just 5 yrs old on average. They took a lot in 2018-2019. They (TechOps) have a large CFM pool & capability & can overhaul / standardize the aircraft when they come in. A longer term investment considering Delta will be flying 737-900ER's for the next 20 years.


source : wiki

On the A350s, good deal if they have the cash, after phasing out their 777 fleet last year. Restoring business on the Pacific with the cargo capable long range A350s. https://insideflyer.com/2020/05/17/delt ... 777-fleet/

flyboy80 wrote:

The Delta 739 configuration is terrible. I don’t understand why American took so much flack about oasis and densifying when Delta had already been doing it. DL is the only U.S. carrier I can think of that uses the half size forward galley on the 739ER, you would think that would lend more floor space, but even in first class it feels tight for 20 seats. To make matters worse, the plane does a lot of 3 plus hour hauls. Let’s be honest, if it wasn’t for those PTVs people would be so much more critical about the DL experience.

sxf24 wrote:

N649DL wrote:

fanoftristars wrote:

Ugggghhhh... No more 737-900ers for Delta! Delta configured that plane so badly, I'd be very sad if this rumor is true. But please, bring on more A350s!

Worse than United though? At least DL has AVOD installed.

From what I remember (my memory is hazy so I could be wrong) but DL didn't really seek out the 739ER, Boeing gave them favorable pricing terms. When they took delivery of them, they were acquiring second hand 717s and M90s left and right. Then again, they do have 128 of them in service so maybe not. I just checked and didn't realize they had so many.

I think the intent was for them to replace the oldest 757s from the Mid/Late 1980s by introducing the 739ER. The new A321s seem to largely help accelerate the retirements of the M88s and M90s (along with the decision to reconfigure and keep around older A320s.) At one point, DL was going to ditch quite a few of the A320s (which was why they didn't install AVOD initially and then decided to keep them and do a "Version 2" of the retrofit program.) Same with the 757s and they ended up retrofitting and keeping quite a few frames around. There are some in the fleet with brand new interiors which are pushing over 30 years in age.

DL's fleet strategy has changed a lot over the last decade so it wouldn't surprise me if they were looking to acquire used aircraft once again (probably to start replacing the 717s). They did so a few years ago by acquiring some of the youngest 757s ever built from 2004-2005.

Boeing757100 wrote:

Most of them were sold to this entity called Mammoth. No idea what they're gonna do with them. Though I agree it would be nice to see the 777 flying in DL colors again.

I doubt the 777s are coming back with the A350 in place. DL only had 18 of them anyway and were essentially a sub-fleet. However, if DL was ever to acquired used 73Gs, I could see them pulling all 10 back into service (should they still be around in storage).

Delta absolutely sought out the 737-900ER. While they got a good price, based on what they’ve financed with lessors, it was not the lowest price available.

I know it’s hard to accept, but most airlines buy Boeing aircraft because it is the right plane for the mission and delivers value. It’s the same reason they also buy Airbus.

Lootess wrote:

sxf24 wrote:

N649DL wrote:

Worse than United though? At least DL has AVOD installed.

From what I remember (my memory is hazy so I could be wrong) but DL didn't really seek out the 739ER, Boeing gave them favorable pricing terms. When they took delivery of them, they were acquiring second hand 717s and M90s left and right. Then again, they do have 128 of them in service so maybe not. I just checked and didn't realize they had so many.

I think the intent was for them to replace the oldest 757s from the Mid/Late 1980s by introducing the 739ER. The new A321s seem to largely help accelerate the retirements of the M88s and M90s (along with the decision to reconfigure and keep around older A320s.) At one point, DL was going to ditch quite a few of the A320s (which was why they didn't install AVOD initially and then decided to keep them and do a "Version 2" of the retrofit program.) Same with the 757s and they ended up retrofitting and keeping quite a few frames around. There are some in the fleet with brand new interiors which are pushing over 30 years in age.

DL's fleet strategy has changed a lot over the last decade so it wouldn't surprise me if they were looking to acquire used aircraft once again (probably to start replacing the 717s). They did so a few years ago by acquiring some of the youngest 757s ever built from 2004-2005.



I doubt the 777s are coming back with the A350 in place. DL only had 18 of them anyway and were essentially a sub-fleet. However, if DL was ever to acquired used 73Gs, I could see them pulling all 10 back into service (should they still be around in storage).

Delta absolutely sought out the 737-900ER. While they got a good price, based on what they’ve financed with lessors, it was not the lowest price available.

I know it’s hard to accept, but most airlines buy Boeing aircraft because it is the right plane for the mission and delivers value. It’s the same reason they also buy Airbus.

They didn't actively seek out the 739ER, it was an opportunistic buy. Plus it wasn't that long after they reached a settlement on the 788s, even if they removed their place as a US launch customer.

Lootess wrote:

sxf24 wrote:

N649DL wrote:

Worse than United though? At least DL has AVOD installed.

From what I remember (my memory is hazy so I could be wrong) but DL didn't really seek out the 739ER, Boeing gave them favorable pricing terms. When they took delivery of them, they were acquiring second hand 717s and M90s left and right. Then again, they do have 128 of them in service so maybe not. I just checked and didn't realize they had so many.

I think the intent was for them to replace the oldest 757s from the Mid/Late 1980s by introducing the 739ER. The new A321s seem to largely help accelerate the retirements of the M88s and M90s (along with the decision to reconfigure and keep around older A320s.) At one point, DL was going to ditch quite a few of the A320s (which was why they didn't install AVOD initially and then decided to keep them and do a "Version 2" of the retrofit program.) Same with the 757s and they ended up retrofitting and keeping quite a few frames around. There are some in the fleet with brand new interiors which are pushing over 30 years in age.

DL's fleet strategy has changed a lot over the last decade so it wouldn't surprise me if they were looking to acquire used aircraft once again (probably to start replacing the 717s). They did so a few years ago by acquiring some of the youngest 757s ever built from 2004-2005.



I doubt the 777s are coming back with the A350 in place. DL only had 18 of them anyway and were essentially a sub-fleet. However, if DL was ever to acquired used 73Gs, I could see them pulling all 10 back into service (should they still be around in storage).

Delta absolutely sought out the 737-900ER. While they got a good price, based on what they’ve financed with lessors, it was not the lowest price available.

I know it’s hard to accept, but most airlines buy Boeing aircraft because it is the right plane for the mission and delivers value. It’s the same reason they also buy Airbus.

They didn't actively seek out the 739ER, it was an opportunistic buy. Plus it wasn't that long after they reached a settlement on the 788s, even if they removed their place as a US launch customer.

sxf24 wrote:

Delta absolutely sought out the 737-900ER. While they got a good price, based on what they’ve financed with lessors, it was not the lowest price available.

I know it’s hard to accept, but most airlines buy Boeing aircraft because it is the right plane for the mission and delivers value. It’s the same reason they also buy Airbus.

jbs2886 wrote:

It is disingenuous to say DL didn't "actively seek out" the aircraft. If it was an opportunistic buy, DL *wanted* the aircraft. It bought 130 of them, far more than the value of the 788s (which were subject to major delays by Boeing, not only DL). If we exclude airlines ordering new models because of negotiating from old orders, a lot of airlines didn't "actively" seek out those aircraft.