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Antaras
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Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:29 pm

Seems like the newest coronavirus outbreak in Vietnam is continuing to destroy the Viet carriers, and again, this time, the state-owned flag carrier Vietnam Airlines is having large trouble.
The newest report from the Vietnamese media is showing that the probability is no more a joke for this carrier, and started questioning the government about its effort to save its national flag carrier, which used to be one of the worthy and profitable airlines on Earth before the coronavirus came.

https://vnexpress.net/hang-khong-viet-l ... 95096.html
The Vietnam Ministry of Planning and Investment (MPI) cited a report of the Vietnam Airlines Corporation (VN) showing that the loss in the first quarter is expected to be at VNĐ 4,800 billion and in the first six months of the year may be up to VNĐ 10,000 billion. Currently, the debt amount VN has to pay overdue VNĐ 6,240 billion) and is falling into an extremely difficult situation, on the verge of bankruptcy.

While commercial banks have not seen the Government's bailout of VNĐ 12,000 billion, they should not allow VN to disburse further, or not extend or grant further credit limits.

"Vietnam Airlines is facing the risk of being sued with too high arrears and the risk of not being able to repay the due short-term loans at banks," the report said.

It is interesting to see how the Vietnamese government and the carrier itself would react to the very serious warning from the MPI. Besides that, it is unknown if ANA - one of VN's major stakeholders - would provide this Southeast Asian Skyteam member a valuable financial help or not.
Last edited by Antaras on Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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LAX772LR
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:35 pm

Nice, sounds like a great time to launch expensive TPAC ultralonghauls in completely unproven markets with tons of low-priced connecting competition....
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:47 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Nice, sounds like a great time to launch expensive TPAC ultralonghauls in completely unproven markets with tons of low-priced connecting competition....

...and spend billions of dollar to order 50 brand new narrowbody airframes :duck:
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:56 pm

I struggle with the idea that the Vietnamese Govt would really let Vietnam Airlines collapse and completely shut down
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:43 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
I struggle with the idea that the Vietnamese Govt would really let Vietnam Airlines collapse and completely shut down

We can guarantee that the govt won't let VN die and collapse in anyway.
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
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GlobalAirways
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:20 pm

What's going on with Bamboo?
There is little difference in people, but that little difference makes a big difference. The little difference is attitude. The big difference is whether it is positive or negative. ~ W. Clement Stone
 
eal
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:02 pm

The government of Vietnam wont let VN die, especially if it's their restrictions that are hobbling the airline. Vietnam's fundamentals remain strong and the "second wave" remains unbelievably small respective Vietnam's population. In fact, the only real area of concern is HCMC/Saigon where there has been uncontrolled community spread. This thread is mountains out of molehills.

Will the restrictions screw over the private players in the Viet market? Probably--but the likes of Bamboo were never on solid footing to begin with. VietJet also had far too ambitious expansion plans--although I do believe they will make it out of the pandemic.

The main contingency re: Vietnam is there abismal vaccination rate. Until that is under control they will remain vulnerable. Hopefully the endemic vaccines are effective and can be approved soon.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:26 am

GlobalAirways wrote:
What's going on with Bamboo?

Not having a good business because of the pandemic, started lacking of cash and looking for some fresh money from the parent group. I guess this is what most carriers on Earth are facing.
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
Planes4you
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:40 am

Maybe bamboo airlines will buy them
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:57 am

Planes4you wrote:
Maybe bamboo airlines will buy them

It is even more likely that VN (or VJ) will by QH but not QH buying VN.
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:59 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Nice, sounds like a great time to launch expensive TPAC ultralonghauls in completely unproven markets with tons of low-priced connecting competition....

Oh, and all the posts in early covid about how VN was state backed and primed for robust expansion.
 
OMAAbound
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:13 am

I was always under the impression, and confirmed by local Vietnamese, that the airline was only there to benefit the Tourism industry and to increase direct flightst to locations around the world, to again, boost tourism numbers?

I hardly doubt that they would let the airline go under, if this is its main objective.

OMAA
 
behramjee
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:52 am

In Vietnam, the only airline that can come close to shutting down is Bamboo.

There is no way either Vietnam Airlines nor Vietjet are going down under any circumstances.
 
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Polot
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:57 am

behramjee wrote:
In Vietnam, the only airline that can come close to shutting down is Bamboo.

There is no way either Vietnam Airlines nor Vietjet are going down under any circumstances.

VN I understand, but how come there is no way that Vietjet can go down under any circumstance?
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:43 pm

OMAAbound wrote:
I was always under the impression, and confirmed by local Vietnamese, that the airline was only there to benefit the Tourism industry and to increase direct flightst to locations around the world, to again, boost tourism numbers?

I hardly doubt that they would let the airline go under, if this is its main objective.

OMAA

Yes, it does its jobs as a state-owned national carrier, sometimes profit is not its first priority
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
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ADent
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:52 pm

News last night said Vietnam vaccination rate was 1% - but plan to be fully vaccinated by the end of the year.


Rates that low really put a crimp on international travel, if you want to keep things in check (like they have been doing).
 
kiowa
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:14 pm

behramjee wrote:
In Vietnam, the only airline that can come close to shutting down is Bamboo.

There is no way either Vietnam Airlines nor Vietjet are going down under any circumstances.



Or PanAm or Eastern or TWA or Laker Airways or Alitalia. They are simply too large and well supported. TIC
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:29 pm

Unlike PanAm, Eastern, TWA or Laker.... Vietnam Airlines is state owned
Alitalia will never go bust in a true sense - ie shut down and completely stop flying. ITA is just a rebranding
 
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spinotter
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:39 pm

OMAAbound wrote:
I was always under the impression, and confirmed by local Vietnamese, that the airline was only there to benefit the Tourism industry and to increase direct flightst to locations around the world, to again, boost tourism numbers?

I hardly doubt that they would let the airline go under, if this is its main objective.

OMAA


Hardly doubt or highly doubt?
 
blandy62
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:26 am

Vietnam government will put money and everything will be fine.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:07 am

Polot wrote:
behramjee wrote:
In Vietnam, the only airline that can come close to shutting down is Bamboo.

There is no way either Vietnam Airlines nor Vietjet are going down under any circumstances.

VN I understand, but how come there is no way that Vietjet can go down under any circumstance?

Unlike Vietnam Airlines which is shackled by "flag carrier" obligation, or Bamboo Airways' belligerent strategy, Vietjet is very much focused on low cost market with very strong financial backing from financial institutions and seems to enjoy good working relationship with many stakeholders. It also helps when their parent company is one of the largest conglomerates in Vietnam. They ran a lot of sales promotion to drive domestic demand since the border was closed. Thanks to their very nimble financial acumen and tax breaks and fee reduction/payment extension from local government, they managed to reduce operation cost, while keep every staff employed and still recording profit last year.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:27 pm

blandy62 wrote:
Vietnam government will put money and everything will be fine.

Seems like the Viet government react with the crisis quite slowly and its effort to protect VN is...questionable?!
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:30 pm

English report from ch-aviation:
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/104859
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
kiowa
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:33 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Unlike PanAm, Eastern, TWA or Laker.... Vietnam Airlines is state owned
Alitalia will never go bust in a true sense - ie shut down and completely stop flying. ITA is just a rebranding


I just do not trust or believe absolutes like "never" and "always" There are plenty of countries from 50 years ago that no longer even exist on the globe today. It would be hard to support a state airline if the state ceases to exist.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:35 pm

Antaras wrote:
blandy62 wrote:
Vietnam government will put money and everything will be fine.

Seems like the Viet government react with the crisis quite slowly and its effort to protect VN is...questionable?!


Discussions at high levels of Govt are usually not publicised until everyone is ready to take action. Vietnam doesn't do "Govt by lots of people running around in a wild panic"
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:20 pm

Seems like Vietnam Airlines did not take up some A321neo recently:
Airbus A320-272N MSN 10439 XA-VRX
Airbus A320 -271N MSN 10574 XA-VRY
Both went to Volaris instead.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:37 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Seems like Vietnam Airlines did not take up some A321neo recently:
Airbus A320-272N MSN 10439 XA-VRX
Airbus A320 -271N MSN 10574 XA-VRY
Both went to Volaris instead.

That is very interesting. That is not a good sign when NTOs become common. In particular in this market (there is no reason to pay a premium for aircraft).

Lightsaber
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:18 pm

How do other airlines snap up NTU orders so quickly? Is there a 'reserve' list?
 
oldJoe
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:24 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Seems like Vietnam Airlines did not take up some A321neo recently:
Airbus A320-272N MSN 10439 XA-VRX
Airbus A320 -271N MSN 10574 XA-VRY
Both went to Volaris instead.


All twenty A321neo they have ordered where delivered !
MSN 10439 is actually right now on it`s way to Volaris ( must be at KEF now )
To add to your list MSN 10098 and 10200 are stored in Toulouse - Francazal ( LFBF ) and I believe these will also be NTU`s ? Bad for the lessors !
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:52 pm

lightsaber wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Seems like Vietnam Airlines did not take up some A321neo recently:
Airbus A320-272N MSN 10439 XA-VRX
Airbus A320 -271N MSN 10574 XA-VRY
Both went to Volaris instead.

That is very interesting. That is not a good sign when NTOs become common. In particular in this market (there is no reason to pay a premium for aircraft).

Lightsaber

Yes indeed. Airbus has quite a number of NTU for both narrowbody and widebody. Between Interjet, Vietnam Airlines and AirAsia there are a couple of newly built A321neo/A320neo looking for immediate home. Most of AK ntu have been snapped up, so do VN's. Some of ex-Interjet airframes (late A320/A321 ceo and neo) have found home, but quite a lot still at desert. Those airlines looking for immediate capacity are spoilt for choices. The leasing market will continue to be depressed until 2023 at least.

On side, IndiGo from India are offloading a lot of A320ceo (some late built) to move to A320neo/A321neo. AirAsia/Tigerair/Scoot are doing the same.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:54 pm

CarbonFibre wrote:
How do other airlines snap up NTU orders so quickly? Is there a 'reserve' list?


I doubt there's a specific list, but it's likely Airbus reaches out to its customers individually in the event of new airframes becoming available on short notice.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:56 pm

oldJoe wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Seems like Vietnam Airlines did not take up some A321neo recently:
Airbus A320-272N MSN 10439 XA-VRX
Airbus A320 -271N MSN 10574 XA-VRY
Both went to Volaris instead.


All twenty A321neo they have ordered where delivered !
MSN 10439 is actually right now on it`s way to Volaris ( must be at KEF now )
To add to your list MSN 10098 and 10200 are stored in Toulouse - Francazal ( LFBF ) and I believe these will also be NTU`s ? Bad for the lessors !

Might be going to Volaris too as they recently stated they will add few A321ceo/neo for capacity expansion since Interjet has gone bankrupt or about to. They took in two fairly new A321ceo from Philippine Airlines and Thomas Cook (ex-Jetblue ntu) too. I think the other two ex-jetBlue/Thomas Cook A321ceo ntu are heading to them too.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:01 pm

ScottB wrote:
CarbonFibre wrote:
How do other airlines snap up NTU orders so quickly? Is there a 'reserve' list?


I doubt there's a specific list, but it's likely Airbus reaches out to its customers individually in the event of new airframes becoming available on short notice.

Yes indeed, as what ScottB has stated Airbus sent out correspondence to their worldwide clients at designated time (I have forgotten was it weekly or bi- weekly) on available inventory. First come, first served basis. On other side of the coin, Airbus legal team will get ready paperwork to take legal action for non-delivery of inventory to intended customers (depending on how the agreement is worded).
 
oldJoe
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:59 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
CarbonFibre wrote:
How do other airlines snap up NTU orders so quickly? Is there a 'reserve' list?


I doubt there's a specific list, but it's likely Airbus reaches out to its customers individually in the event of new airframes becoming available on short notice.

Yes indeed, as what ScottB has stated Airbus sent out correspondence to their worldwide clients at designated time (I have forgotten was it weekly or bi- weekly) on available inventory. First come, first served basis. On other side of the coin, Airbus legal team will get ready paperwork to take legal action for non-delivery of inventory to intended customers (depending on how the agreement is worded).


I don't think there is such a list either, but in the case of VN, it`s not the problem of Airbus, because this A320neo`s are on lease contracts from ICBC Financial Leasing and Air Lease Corporation and thus their problem.
If you consider how many aircraft VN has already leased from ALC and how many are still outstanding, then I can already imagine who has the bigger headache !
At the end of the day, in my opinion, everyone involved will find a (good?) Solution that everyone can live with :!: :?:
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:33 am

oldJoe wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Seems like Vietnam Airlines did not take up some A321neo recently:
Airbus A320-272N MSN 10439 XA-VRX
Airbus A320 -271N MSN 10574 XA-VRY
Both went to Volaris instead.


All twenty A321neo they have ordered where delivered !
MSN 10439 is actually right now on it`s way to Volaris ( must be at KEF now )
To add to your list MSN 10098 and 10200 are stored in Toulouse - Francazal ( LFBF ) and I believe these will also be NTU`s ? Bad for the lessors !

Those two airframes were all registered in Vietnam and they are likely to be taken up by VN, not really NTU yet.
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:35 am

oldJoe wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
ScottB wrote:

I doubt there's a specific list, but it's likely Airbus reaches out to its customers individually in the event of new airframes becoming available on short notice.

Yes indeed, as what ScottB has stated Airbus sent out correspondence to their worldwide clients at designated time (I have forgotten was it weekly or bi- weekly) on available inventory. First come, first served basis. On other side of the coin, Airbus legal team will get ready paperwork to take legal action for non-delivery of inventory to intended customers (depending on how the agreement is worded).


I don't think there is such a list either, but in the case of VN, it`s not the problem of Airbus, because this A320neo`s are on lease contracts from ICBC Financial Leasing and Air Lease Corporation and thus their problem.
If you consider how many aircraft VN has already leased from ALC and how many are still outstanding, then I can already imagine who has the bigger headache !
At the end of the day, in my opinion, everyone involved will find a (good?) Solution that everyone can live with :!: :?:

I think that ALC will be freaking out as ALC and VN signed contracts for 4 more B78X and a number of A320neo. All of those airframes were built and supposed to be delivered in 2020-2021
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:19 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
oldJoe wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Seems like Vietnam Airlines did not take up some A321neo recently:
Airbus A320-272N MSN 10439 XA-VRX
Airbus A320 -271N MSN 10574 XA-VRY
Both went to Volaris instead.


All twenty A321neo they have ordered where delivered !
MSN 10439 is actually right now on it`s way to Volaris ( must be at KEF now )
To add to your list MSN 10098 and 10200 are stored in Toulouse - Francazal ( LFBF ) and I believe these will also be NTU`s ? Bad for the lessors !

Might be going to Volaris too as they recently stated they will add few A321ceo/neo for capacity expansion since Interjet has gone bankrupt or about to. They took in two fairly new A321ceo from Philippine Airlines and Thomas Cook (ex-Jetblue ntu) too. I think the other two ex-jetBlue/Thomas Cook A321ceo ntu are heading to them too.

Would need to amend this, MSN 10098 and MSN 10200 are A320neo, am not sure if VN are taking them. Since they have been registered under VN- registration number, high probability they will take the airframe.

Btw, VN signed up for another 2 more A320neo and 12 more A321neo back in 2019, lease via ALC. At that time they also had 8 B787-10s on order with ALC. All these airframes are to be delivered in 2019-2021 timeframe.
http://spirit.vietnamairlines.com/vi/ti ... -4888.html
https://www.aerotime.aero/14765-air-lea ... -a321neo-s
https://aviationvoice.com/two-new-airbu ... 907181142/

Guess we now know where the backlog of aircraft came from.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:38 am

oldJoe wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
ScottB wrote:

I doubt there's a specific list, but it's likely Airbus reaches out to its customers individually in the event of new airframes becoming available on short notice.

Yes indeed, as what ScottB has stated Airbus sent out correspondence to their worldwide clients at designated time (I have forgotten was it weekly or bi- weekly) on available inventory. First come, first served basis. On other side of the coin, Airbus legal team will get ready paperwork to take legal action for non-delivery of inventory to intended customers (depending on how the agreement is worded).


I don't think there is such a list either, but in the case of VN, it`s not the problem of Airbus, because this A320neo`s are on lease contracts from ICBC Financial Leasing and Air Lease Corporation and thus their problem.
If you consider how many aircraft VN has already leased from ALC and how many are still outstanding, then I can already imagine who has the bigger headache !
At the end of the day, in my opinion, everyone involved will find a (good?) Solution that everyone can live with :!: :?:

Actually there is, Airbus team works closely with all the lessors to determine which are solid delivery which custemers are not. Through their collective effort, they will send out the inventory lisitng to all potential clients. Says for example, the AirAsia ntu ones were marketed by Airbus to SkyGreece and Russia's North-West Air Company. But like what you have said, everyone is in this together, everyone is looking for best solution for the issue.

If my calculation is correct, AL should have another 10 A321neo for VN.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:07 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
If my calculation is correct, AL should have another 10 A321neo for VN.

Nope, no more. 20 A321-272N from multiple lessors would be everything as this moment.

ALC provides 12 out of 20 airframes for VN: https://airleasecorp.com/press/air-leas ... airlines-1
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:33 am

Antaras wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
If my calculation is correct, AL should have another 10 A321neo for VN.

Nope, no more. 20 A321-272N from multiple lessors would be everything as this moment.

ALC provides 12 out of 20 airframes for VN: https://airleasecorp.com/press/air-leas ... airlines-1

They topped up another 12 A321neo in 2019 via dry lease, supposedly via lessors. http://spirit.vietnamairlines.com/vi/ti ... -4888.html
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:40 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Antaras wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
If my calculation is correct, AL should have another 10 A321neo for VN.

Nope, no more. 20 A321-272N from multiple lessors would be everything as this moment.

ALC provides 12 out of 20 airframes for VN: https://airleasecorp.com/press/air-leas ... airlines-1

They topped up another 12 A321neo in 2019 via dry lease, supposedly via lessors. http://spirit.vietnamairlines.com/vi/ti ... -4888.html

Seems like no deal was signed because of the coronavirus. Now it is keen on its plans to acquire 50 narrowbodies.
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
oldJoe
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:32 pm

Antaras wrote:
oldJoe wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Seems like Vietnam Airlines did not take up some A321neo recently:
Airbus A320-272N MSN 10439 XA-VRX
Airbus A320 -271N MSN 10574 XA-VRY
Both went to Volaris instead.


All twenty A321neo they have ordered where delivered !
MSN 10439 is actually right now on it`s way to Volaris ( must be at KEF now )
To add to your list MSN 10098 and 10200 are stored in Toulouse - Francazal ( LFBF ) and I believe these will also be NTU`s ? Bad for the lessors !

Those two airframes were all registered in Vietnam and they are likely to be taken up by VN, not really NTU yet.


Not yet !
But I find that hard to believe. When you consider that MSN 10098 already had its maiden flight in August and MSN 10200 in October, I wonder what that is all about? Both have been in LFBF since January and February and have not completed a flight from there since April :shock:
Time will tell
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:49 pm

oldJoe wrote:
Antaras wrote:
oldJoe wrote:

All twenty A321neo they have ordered where delivered !
MSN 10439 is actually right now on it`s way to Volaris ( must be at KEF now )
To add to your list MSN 10098 and 10200 are stored in Toulouse - Francazal ( LFBF ) and I believe these will also be NTU`s ? Bad for the lessors !

Those two airframes were all registered in Vietnam and they are likely to be taken up by VN, not really NTU yet.


Not yet !
But I find that hard to believe. When you consider that MSN 10098 already had its maiden flight in August and MSN 10200 in October, I wonder what that is all about? Both have been in LFBF since January and February and have not completed a flight from there since April :shock:
Time will tell

According to what I have heard, VN will start receive the A320neo in 3Q-4Q and those delivery were just delayed but not cancelled with Airbus and the lessor. Those airframes are pretty unlikely to become NTUs.
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
oldJoe
Posts: 534
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:20 pm

Antaras wrote:
oldJoe wrote:
Antaras wrote:
Those two airframes were all registered in Vietnam and they are likely to be taken up by VN, not really NTU yet.


Not yet !
But I find that hard to believe. When you consider that MSN 10098 already had its maiden flight in August and MSN 10200 in October, I wonder what that is all about? Both have been in LFBF since January and February and have not completed a flight from there since April :shock:
Time will tell

According to what I have heard, VN will start receive the A320neo in 3Q-4Q and those delivery were just delayed but not cancelled with Airbus and the lessor. Those airframes are pretty unlikely to become NTUs.


Thanks for the feedback ! Personally, I'm not a friend of ntu's either, but to be honest, the whole thing looks weird, doesn't it? Then let's hope that VN will actually take over the two machines !
It's been so long since I was in Vietnam but I really enjoyed my multiple stays (work) there !
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:41 am

oldJoe wrote:
...but to be honest, the whole thing looks weird, doesn't it?

Nothing is normal these days. I was also surprised when VN was considered as in serious condition (we all thought that VN would be fine, right?) before it has turned 2 airframes into NTUs.

Now I am wondering what will happen with VN's upcoming four B787-10 airframes. All of them were built, fully painted, registered with Viet registration and most importantly, all of them are leased from ALC.

It would be the worst nightmare for ALC if VN can't get out of the trouble and started having actions with its fleet, especially with future airframes that most of them are leased from ALC.
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:02 am

Often find it weird why VN only placed an order for 5 A320neo when they have bucketload of A321neo. My would guess is that they are bought for specific routes that can't handle A321neo or those without pax volume to do so.

The proposed 50 additional narrowbody proposal by VN most probably did not make it pass the State Capital Management Committee. They were planning in 2019 to add up to 100 more narrowbody aircraft for delivery in 2021-2025.

VN's overly ambitious expansion is coming back to bite it. VN benefits from being in one of the world’s fastest growing markets. Their fortune were doing well due to government protection up until the arrival of Vietjet. Even up until today, the government somehow is still protective of their local airlines. Note how their red tape ended AirAsia dream to establish an airline there and also how Jetstar was 'forced out'.

Vietnam is a very price sensitive and extremely competitive market. The flag carrier must adapt in order to maintain profitability and a double-digit growth rate. Higher density aircraft result in lower unit costs would enable Vietnam Airlines to compete more effectively with LCCs. Focusing international growth on existing markets, rather than launching a large number of new long haul routes, minimises risk during a challenging period. While I understand Vietnamese airlines fetish with direct Hanoi/HCM- Los Angeles route, involving discussions with SkyTeam partners could be a more sensible approach to minimise risk.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines is said on the brink of bankruptcy

Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:14 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Often find it weird why VN only placed an order for 5 A320neo when they have bucketload of A321neo. My would guess is that they are bought for specific routes that can't handle A321neo or those without pax volume to do so.

The proposed 50 additional narrowbody proposal by VN most probably did not make it pass the State Capital Management Committee. They were planning in 2019 to add up to 100 more narrowbody aircraft for delivery in 2021-2025.

VN's overly ambitious expansion is coming back to bite it. VN benefits from being in one of the world’s fastest growing markets. Their fortune were doing well due to government protection up until the arrival of Vietjet. Even up until today, the government somehow is still protective of their local airlines. Note how their red tape ended AirAsia dream to establish an airline there and also how Jetstar was 'forced out'.

Vietnam is a very price sensitive and extremely competitive market. The flag carrier must adapt in order to maintain profitability and a double-digit growth rate. Higher density aircraft result in lower unit costs would enable Vietnam Airlines to compete more effectively with LCCs. Focusing international growth on existing markets, rather than launching a large number of new long haul routes, minimises risk during a challenging period. While I understand Vietnamese airlines fetish with direct Hanoi/HCM- Los Angeles route, involving discussions with SkyTeam partners could be a more sensible approach to minimise risk.

Somehow I believe that the A320neo can be related with (former Jetstar) Pacific Airlines, who is operating a 100% A320ceo fleet. Besides that, VN might somehow realize that the 200-seat A321 can be a bit oversized, especially with low-demanding routes (its mission is to prioritize the nationwide connectivity over profit, so sometime it may have to operate non-profitable routes which may need slightly smaller aircraft)
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:

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