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JetBuddy
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:31 pm

PixelPilot wrote:


Awesome clip! She looks good. :D
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:33 pm

PixelPilot wrote:

Nice Take off!
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:34 pm

Thanks for the link. I am bit underwhelmed by the fact that there is no livestream by anybody Boeing or TV on a day like this.
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:38 pm

Last edited by PixelPilot on Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:38 pm

Nnaeto87 wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

Nice Take off!

Pretty decent. Wish we had professional grade video, but it'll do for now. Guess that's our cheap thrill for the day.
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:39 pm

Noshow wrote:
Thanks for the link. I am bit underwhelmed by the fact that there is no livestream by anybody Boeing or TV on a day like this.


I know, finally something really positive and Boeing PR doesn't even bother to share it with us. This is the first flight of the largest 737 ever made! This is awesome. Boeing show some more confidence!
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:40 pm

Revelation wrote:
Nnaeto87 wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

Nice Take off!

Pretty decent. Wish we had professional grade video, but it'll do for now. Guess that's our cheap thrill for the day.

Probably won't get that for another 2 weeks and it would be probably come from Boeing. there seem to be videographers there.
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:40 pm

PixelPilot wrote:


Yep that one is sharper. Awesome. :D
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:46 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

Yep that one is sharper. Awesome. :D

Pro: The kid skipped school to get the video.
Con: Pictures of other avgeeks phones and hairy body parts in the frame.
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:47 pm

Anything on youtube yet? Why no live? They did for the 777X
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:48 pm

Revelation wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

Yep that one is sharper. Awesome. :D

Pro: The kid skipped school to get the video.
Con: Pictures of other avgeeks phones and hairy body parts in the frame.


Haha true. :D

She just turned south, heading 188 degrees, still at 25,000, 293 knots.
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:49 pm

 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:53 pm

How often will the MAX10 be flying now? as often as the 777X? which is almost everyday or more spaced out seeing as this is just a variant
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:58 pm

https://twitter.com/AeroimagesChris/sta ... 76960?s=20

As Usual Woodys got some very good pics, can't wait for the high-res to drop. You can see how long the landing gear gets in the pics
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:06 pm

PixelPilot wrote:


Engines sound so pathetic and wheezy on modern aircraft. Very underwhelming. Not like the thunderous roar of older generation planes.
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:42 pm

 
ILNFlyer
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:47 pm

RobK wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:


Engines sound so pathetic and wheezy on modern aircraft. Very underwhelming. Not like the thunderous roar of older generation planes.


Agreed. I miss the smoke too.
 
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:07 pm

PixelPilot wrote:

Agree.

My question is: what role does the pivoting gear play?

The onset of take off is at the 38 second mark ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrdF9MAqd7I&t=38s )

It seems to me after watching this a dozen or so times the pilot is so smooth there would be no risk of tail strike even if the traditional gear was fitted.

Of course this is not a typical flight, the plane has no pax and presumably not max fuel either and a long runway so there is/was no need to raise the nose to get a better AoA during the takeoff roll.

It'll be interesting to see footage from later in flight test and/or during airline operations to see if the role becomes more clear.
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:07 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

They're only using one chase now? Didn't they always used to use two?

Nevermind, scratch that... they did use two.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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keesje
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:24 pm

Congratulation to Boeing, hope many will be sold!
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:36 pm

About to land back at BFI
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:40 pm

Revelation wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

Agree.

My question is: what role does the pivoting gear play?

The onset of take off is at the 38 second mark ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrdF9MAqd7I&t=38s )

It seems to me after watching this a dozen or so times the pilot is so smooth there would be no risk of tail strike even if the traditional gear was fitted.

Of course this is not a typical flight, the plane has no pax and presumably not max fuel either and a long runway so there is/was no need to raise the nose to get a better AoA during the takeoff roll.

It'll be interesting to see footage from later in flight test and/or during airline operations to see if the role becomes more clear.


The way I go about thinking of it is that as the plane gains lift and begins rotation, the gear rises up with the aircraft if that makes sense and gives the tail more clearance to have a sharper rotation angle.
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:45 pm

PixelPilot wrote:


Very chatty narrator on video #6!

That said, it looked pretty good taking off. Those new telescoping main gear struts really seem to make a good difference in AOA at rotation. I bet the MAX 10 will use about 500 feet less runway on takeoff than a similarly configured MAX 9 in service.
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:51 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
Those new telescoping main gear struts really seem to make a good difference in AOA at rotation. I bet the MAX 10 will use about 500 feet less runway on takeoff than a similarly configured MAX 9 in service.

I think they should make a difference, but the takeoff in this situation and this configuration didn't seem to need much AoA in rotation so the pivoting gear didn't seem to be needed. As above, cue to the 38 second mark in the video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrdF9MAqd7I&t=38s ) .

ikolkyo wrote:
The way I go about thinking of it is that as the plane gains lift and begins rotation, the gear rises up with the aircraft if that makes sense and gives the tail more clearance to have a sharper rotation angle.

Indeed, and maybe it is just not very perceptible in this situation, or maybe I'm expecting the effect to be more dramatic than it appears to be in this video.
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:54 pm

Revelation wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
Those new telescoping main gear struts really seem to make a good difference in AOA at rotation. I bet the MAX 10 will use about 500 feet less runway on takeoff than a similarly configured MAX 9 in service.

I think they should make a difference, but the takeoff in this situation and this configuration didn't seem to need much AoA in rotation so the pivoting gear didn't seem to be needed. As above, cue to the 38 second mark in the video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrdF9MAqd7I&t=38s ) .

ikolkyo wrote:
The way I go about thinking of it is that as the plane gains lift and begins rotation, the gear rises up with the aircraft if that makes sense and gives the tail more clearance to have a sharper rotation angle.

Indeed, and maybe it is just not very perceptible in this situation, or maybe I'm expecting the effect to be more dramatic than it appears to be in this video.


Like any aircraft at lighter loads the thing is gonna float into the air. I think with something like a TCON load on the aircraft or something, the effect would be noticeable.
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:09 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Revelation wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
Those new telescoping main gear struts really seem to make a good difference in AOA at rotation. I bet the MAX 10 will use about 500 feet less runway on takeoff than a similarly configured MAX 9 in service.

I think they should make a difference, but the takeoff in this situation and this configuration didn't seem to need much AoA in rotation so the pivoting gear didn't seem to be needed. As above, cue to the 38 second mark in the video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrdF9MAqd7I&t=38s ) .

ikolkyo wrote:
The way I go about thinking of it is that as the plane gains lift and begins rotation, the gear rises up with the aircraft if that makes sense and gives the tail more clearance to have a sharper rotation angle.

Indeed, and maybe it is just not very perceptible in this situation, or maybe I'm expecting the effect to be more dramatic than it appears to be in this video.


Like any aircraft at lighter loads the thing is gonna float into the air. I think with something like a TCON load on the aircraft or something, the effect would be noticeable.


Watching B739's and B39M's take off I notice that to avoid a tail strike they have to do a shallow AOA at rotation, keep the mains in contact with the runway and "fly" the aircraft off the runway (nearly in ground effect) until it gets enough clearance to pitch up to their climb out AOA. I did not notice this phenomenon with the MAX 10's takeoff today. Granted, it wasn't as dramatic a rotation as a B752 is noted for, but it seems to be an improvement over the rotation characteristics of a 900ER, or MAX 9.
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:38 pm

oh the joy of working for a company that blocks all social media sites, so
I'll have to wait til tonight to watch all those youtube clips y'all have posted
here :)
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:43 pm

Spetsnaz55 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
737-10 first flight takeoff is currently scheduled for 10am tomorrow, June 18. I haven’t yet heard who the pilots will be, but I’m assuming that Jenn will be in the left seat.

Jenn on the left, Jim on the right

Dom confirms -- https://twitter.com/dominicgates/status ... 96/photo/1
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:14 am

RobK wrote:
Engines sound so pathetic and wheezy on modern aircraft. Very underwhelming. Not like the thunderous roar of older generation planes.


No one who lives anywhere near an airport misses that.
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:49 am

Cdydatzigs wrote:
RobK wrote:
Engines sound so pathetic and wheezy on modern aircraft. Very underwhelming. Not like the thunderous roar of older generation planes.


No one who lives anywhere near an airport misses that.


Speak for yourself. I live near an airport and miss the sound of the Britannia B732s, British Midland DC9s, Dan Air BAC 111s, Balkan T154s, RAF VC10s to name a few.
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:25 am

Nnaeto87 wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Noshow wrote:
It's good to see the MAX back in the business. The -10 could be one of the more promising variants.


A good replacement for the -9. But does it go beyond that?

Does it have to go beyond that?

It will be competitive with the standard NEO. Which would be more than good enough for MAX operators. Which I believe is the target. And that is good enough. You can get a decent amount of sales selling this aircraft to MAX operators


I’d like to think this is at least part of the reason for the LR and XLR. The 737max family can now compete with normal range a320 family. We like to discuss how “brilliant” the A330neo was at taking away pricing power from the 787, this does the same unless an operator needs the extra range.
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:04 am

Hey guys, will be posting some full pics here soon, but until then here are a few closeups of the landing gear once it lifted off in Renton and landing in Boeing Field, unfortunately I had to zoom in as far as I could so this is as large as they get with out blowing them up and destroying the quality. Will be tweeting these out momentarily on @BDFPhotography as well.

ImageN27751 Boeing Company 737-10 MAX by Brandon Farris

ImageN27751 Boeing Company 737-10 MAX by Brandon Farris

ImageN27751 Boeing Company 737-10 MAX by Brandon Farris

ImageN27751 Boeing Company 737-10 MAX by Brandon Farris
Follow on Twitter as @BDFphotography - https://twitter.com/BDFphotography
Brandon Farris Photography on Flickr- https://www.flickr.com/photos/seahawks7757/
 
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PixelPilot
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:05 am

RobK wrote:
Cdydatzigs wrote:
RobK wrote:
Engines sound so pathetic and wheezy on modern aircraft. Very underwhelming. Not like the thunderous roar of older generation planes.


No one who lives anywhere near an airport misses that.


Speak for yourself. I live near an airport and miss the sound of the Britannia B732s, British Midland DC9s, Dan Air BAC 111s, Balkan T154s, RAF VC10s to name a few.


Same here. I miss living close to the airport.
Heavies during take off are <3
 
Max Q
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:02 am

seahawks7757 wrote:
Hey guys, will be posting some full pics here soon, but until then here are a few closeups of the landing gear once it lifted off in Renton and landing in Boeing Field, unfortunately I had to zoom in as far as I could so this is as large as they get with out blowing them up and destroying the quality. Will be tweeting these out momentarily on @BDFPhotography as well.

ImageN27751 Boeing Company 737-10 MAX by Brandon Farris

ImageN27751 Boeing Company 737-10 MAX by Brandon Farris

ImageN27751 Boeing Company 737-10 MAX by Brandon Farris

ImageN27751 Boeing Company 737-10 MAX by Brandon Farris



Still don’t understand the logic of a landing gear design that only lengthens at rotation or at gear extension


Why not have this additional extension at all times it’s on the ground ? Seems like needless complication
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:13 am

Tracking MAX Production https://737-max.blogspot.com/
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:20 am

Max Q wrote:
Why not have this additional extension at all times it’s on the ground ? Seems like needless complication


If the wings are higher above, the overwing exits need inflatable slides or some other alteration requiring new exit certification.

This maintains the hight of the wings in relation to the ground.
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:53 am

seahawks7757 and WoodysAeroimag, awesome shots. Thank you for posting.
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:24 am

Finally got one edited and accepted, 1600 for your viewing pleasure!!!

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Brandon Farris Photography on Flickr- https://www.flickr.com/photos/seahawks7757/
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:20 pm

Who is getting the first one after certifications effort?

Untied or Some other customer?
 
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:17 pm

seahawks7757 wrote:
Hey guys, will be posting some full pics here soon, but until then here are a few closeups of the landing gear once it lifted off in Renton and landing in Boeing Field, unfortunately I had to zoom in as far as I could so this is as large as they get with out blowing them up and destroying the quality. Will be tweeting these out momentarily on @BDFPhotography as well.

WoodysAeroimag wrote:
7644 66122 N27751 737-10 United Airlines

Thanks, those are wonderful photos! Hope you guys had a memorable day taking them!
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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PA727
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:51 pm

Beautiful photos to all, thanks for sharing! And there could not have been a more beautiful morning for flying or photography.
 
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WoodysAeroimag
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:33 pm

Revelation wrote:
seahawks7757 wrote:
Hey guys, will be posting some full pics here soon, but until then here are a few closeups of the landing gear once it lifted off in Renton and landing in Boeing Field, unfortunately I had to zoom in as far as I could so this is as large as they get with out blowing them up and destroying the quality. Will be tweeting these out momentarily on @BDFPhotography as well.

WoodysAeroimag wrote:
7644 66122 N27751 737-10 United Airlines

Thanks, those are wonderful photos! Hope you guys had a memorable day taking them!


It was a good day indeed, catching up with fellow spotters and meeting new ones. Just a shame Boeing didn't make it more widely known publicly so that more people could experience it.
Tracking MAX Production https://737-max.blogspot.com/
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:38 pm

Is there anything on YouTube that shows the landing?
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JetBuddy
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:09 pm

Max Q wrote:


Still don’t understand the logic of a landing gear design that only lengthens at rotation or at gear extension


Why not have this additional extension at all times it’s on the ground ? Seems like needless complication


I believe the trailing link landing gear puts the gear further back, meaning you can have a steeper angle at rotation. It doesn't actually sit higher off the ground, just further back.
 
planecane
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:23 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
Max Q wrote:


Still don’t understand the logic of a landing gear design that only lengthens at rotation or at gear extension


Why not have this additional extension at all times it’s on the ground ? Seems like needless complication


I believe the trailing link landing gear puts the gear further back, meaning you can have a steeper angle at rotation. It doesn't actually sit higher off the ground, just further back.


It extends as the aircraft gets close to rotation when the lift that is generated takes some of the weight off of the gear. The fuselage is higher off the ground when it rotates, allowing a higher AoA.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:54 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Nnaeto87 wrote:
I am assuming it allow it better runway performance than the 9?

If it does, which I'm also assuming to be the case, then the value proposal for the -9 becomes even more dubious than it is now.

Unless either (A) the airline is a dedicated 737 operator to the point of not even considering the A321N, or (B) Boeing demands some crazy premium for the -10 over the -9; it really seems questionable what a lower-capacity and comparatively sluggish -9 would bring to the table for a carrier over the alternative.


A -9 with -10 landing gear might be interesting. It would allow for better field performance than the current -900. It might allow WN to fly to any airport from MDW with 200 passengers to any airport where they operate in the contiguous United States. It would allow upgauging some west coast to Hawaii flights without having to add an additional flight attendant compared to the -8.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:24 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
A -9 with -10 landing gear might be interesting. It would allow for better field performance than the current -900. It might allow WN to fly to any airport from MDW with 200 passengers to any airport where they operate in the contiguous United States. It would allow upgauging some west coast to Hawaii flights without having to add an additional flight attendant compared to the -8.

Or, they could just get the -10 for all the above, and save Boeing the bother.

Boeing let the original 737-900 fall by the wayside when they developed a better option. Nothing says they can't do so again, with the -9.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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par13del
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:12 pm

A question, if it will take a further 2 years to build the synthetic sensor and resolve other crew warning systems, how much is involved in actually putting a third sensor, will that take more than 2 years and create other certification issues? I assume if the computer is going to be able to handle whatever the synthetic requirements are, assumption being the devil that it is, I assume it could handle a third sensor.
 
planecane
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Re: Boeing MAX-10 First Flight Thread

Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:13 pm

par13del wrote:
A question, if it will take a further 2 years to build the synthetic sensor and resolve other crew warning systems, how much is involved in actually putting a third sensor, will that take more than 2 years and create other certification issues? I assume if the computer is going to be able to handle whatever the synthetic requirements are, assumption being the devil that it is, I assume it could handle a third sensor.

As far as I've read, they aren't doing the synthetic sensor anymore.

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