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STT757
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:13 pm

NYCAdvantage wrote:
STT757 wrote:
With the new infrastructure deal now is the perfect time to reassess the Airtrain in favor of a direct N train Subway connection. They can utilize both PFCs and transit funds.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/m ... 65008/?amp


Yup, Cuomo got his wrong way Airtrain.
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jfklganyc
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:35 pm

STT757 wrote:
NYCAdvantage wrote:
STT757 wrote:
With the new infrastructure deal now is the perfect time to reassess the Airtrain in favor of a direct N train Subway connection. They can utilize both PFCs and transit funds.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/m ... 65008/?amp


Yup, Cuomo got his wrong way Airtrain.



Since you love the PANYNJ :)



A very good day for NY and LaGuardia Airport.

I am old enough to remember how protestors said the AirTrain to JFK would be a white elephant…and that has been one of the most successful airport train links in the country.

I expect nothing short of that with AirTrain LGA!
 
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STT757
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:40 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
STT757 wrote:
NYCAdvantage wrote:


Yup, Cuomo got his wrong way Airtrain.



Since you love the PANYNJ :)



A very good day for NY and LaGuardia Airport.

I am old enough to remember how protestors said the AirTrain to JFK would be a white elephant…and that has been one of the most successful airport train links in the country.

I expect nothing short of that with AirTrain LGA!


No one said LaGuardia shouldn’t be linked to Manhattan, the concern of most transit advocates is that:

1. This is not a one seat ride, it’s a people mover going in the wrong direction.

2. It will connect to the 7 train which is way too crowded and doesn’t go where most business travelers want to go. Pretty much the 7 train only serves 42nd street and Hudson yards in Manhattan. So most travelers who aren’t going to Times Square will have to take the Airtrain ( the wrong direction) to connect with the 7 train or LIRR. Then that person will have to travel to Manhattan and then switch to another subway ( if there’s a connection) to reach their destination.

3. The N train in comparison to the 7 train, which only has four Manhattan stations almost all along a single street, has 12-14 stations in Manhattan hitting almost every major destination (Upper East side, Herald square, Union Square, NYU, NOHO, SOHO, Canal Street, City Hall, World Trade Center and the Financial district).
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apodino
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:41 pm

STT757 wrote:

3. The N train in comparison to the 7 train, which only has four Manhattan stations almost all along a single street, has 12-14 stations in Manhattan hitting almost every major destination (Upper East side, Herald square, Union Square, NYU, NOHO, SOHO, Canal Street, City Hall, World Trade Center and the Financial district).


While I am not disagreeing that the N train shouldn't be extended, according to the subway map directly off the MTA website, the N train only makes six stops in Manhattan, and does not go all the way to the financial district and the world trade center as the N train branches off the rest of the line at Canal St and goes over the Manhattan bridge back into Brooklyn. That being said, if the N and the W were both extended at the same time, the W train provides access to everything you have stated.

As far as the 7 goes, it would make much more sense if the Flushing Elevated had four tracks, so you can run express trains in both directions at the same time making this connection much more viable. (Maybe as an 8 train or something). Interestingly enough, the 7 does provide the cross platform transfer to the N and W at Queensboro Plaza.

Also, the LIRR connection would be only to the Port Washington Branch as it is the only line serving the Willets Point station. If you wanted to improve this, maybe find a way to link the JFK airtrain system to the LGA one via Flushing Meadows, and you can kill two birds with one stone. Direct access to all LIRR branches, and also a one seat connection between LGA and JFK. (And yes, I have seen many airlines that unfortunately sell overseas itineraries that have the domestic leg fly into LGA and the international one out of JFK).
 
B6BOSfan
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:01 pm

jfklganyc wrote:

A very good day for NY and LaGuardia Airport.

I am old enough to remember how protestors said the AirTrain to JFK would be a white elephant…and that has been one of the most successful airport train links in the country.

I expect nothing short of that with AirTrain LGA!


Seriously! Remember growing up in southern Brooklyn and being in awe at what was happening on the Van Wyck when they actually were building it. It's spectacular, and so many other cities (ahem, Boston) would love to have it!

STT757 wrote:

No one said LaGuardia shouldn’t be linked to Manhattan, the concern of most transit advocates is that:

1. This is not a one seat ride, it’s a people mover going in the wrong direction.

2. It will connect to the 7 train which is way too crowded and doesn’t go where most business travelers want to go. Pretty much the 7 train only serves 42nd street and Hudson yards in Manhattan. So most travelers who aren’t going to Times Square will have to take the Airtrain ( the wrong direction) to connect with the 7 train or LIRR. Then that person will have to travel to Manhattan and then switch to another subway ( if there’s a connection) to reach their destination.

3. The N train in comparison to the 7 train, which only has four Manhattan stations almost all along a single street, has 12-14 stations in Manhattan hitting almost every major destination (Upper East side, Herald square, Union Square, NYU, NOHO, SOHO, Canal Street, City Hall, World Trade Center and the Financial district).


The idea -- as I understand it -- IS to get passengers to connect to the LIRR for a one-stop ride into Penn Station -- a transit hub that can make connections to multiple other places. With the completion of tunnels under the East River, I'd imagine you could also catch a train into Grand Central too --- which offers more connections.

You are NEVER going to get a one seat ride, ever. The JFK train isn't that, and any kind of LGA train won't be. If you did build it to Astoria/Ditmars Blvd. -- you'd be fully reliant on the N/W subway. There's a finite number of trains you can run on those two tracks. You'd also face a ton of NIMBYism. I hope someday it could also go that way -- and make it a two-way option.
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:33 pm

NY/NYC is a cesspool. The costs of tolls on the bridges and tunnels the MTA cries poverty . The fees the port authority charges to airlines and passengers is excessive. And the amount of taxes both property and sales the city and state charges is criminal. All this and everything is old and falling apart. It takes years for things to get done if ever. The WTC is still being built 20 years after 9/11. The air train from JFK to Jamaica cost 8.75 with the metro card. That took a decade to get going. Shameful
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:42 am

STT757 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
STT757 wrote:

Yup, Cuomo got his wrong way Airtrain.



Since you love the PANYNJ :)



A very good day for NY and LaGuardia Airport.

I am old enough to remember how protestors said the AirTrain to JFK would be a white elephant…and that has been one of the most successful airport train links in the country.

I expect nothing short of that with AirTrain LGA!


No one said LaGuardia shouldn’t be linked to Manhattan, the concern of most transit advocates is that:

1. This is not a one seat ride, it’s a people mover going in the wrong direction.

2. It will connect to the 7 train which is way too crowded and doesn’t go where most business travelers want to go. Pretty much the 7 train only serves 42nd street and Hudson yards in Manhattan. So most travelers who aren’t going to Times Square will have to take the Airtrain ( the wrong direction) to connect with the 7 train or LIRR. Then that person will have to travel to Manhattan and then switch to another subway ( if there’s a connection) to reach their destination.

3. The N train in comparison to the 7 train, which only has four Manhattan stations almost all along a single street, has 12-14 stations in Manhattan hitting almost every major destination (Upper East side, Herald square, Union Square, NYU, NOHO, SOHO, Canal Street, City Hall, World Trade Center and the Financial district).



N Train.

You live here. It cant be built. It is politically impossible.

You are advocating for no train vs the only politically viable train.
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:48 am

cloudboy wrote:
Ditch LaGuardia and beef up Newark and JFK. Make a dedicated shuttle from Penn to Jamaica Station (and a unified ticket for it and the AirTrain), plus a dedicated shuttle between the Financial District and Howard Beach. And make a dedicated shuttle between Penn and World Trade Center to Newark. Let LaGuardia just be for locals.


Well after spending $8 billion rebuilding the terminals are LGA, that won't happen.
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:58 am

Cuomo can’t celebrate just yet. The homeowners along Ditmars Blvd are sure to file a lawsuit to stop it. They were already complaining about damage to their property including foundation cracks and heavy construction vehicles operating thru the area at all hours of the day.

This story will continue.
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:09 am

jfklganyc wrote:


N Train.

You live here. It cant be built. It is politically impossible.

You are advocating for no train vs the only politically viable train.


AMEN.

The LGA AirTrain is needed for funneling passengers between LGA and throughout the tri-state area, not just business travelers to/from Midtown. The direct link from Willets Point to Penn and Grand Central, along with the LIRR Port Washington Branch will accomplish this. Granted, a LGA AirTrain connection to Jamaica Station would further this, and I feel it will eventually happen, but most local travelers in central and southern Long Island use JFK.
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:59 pm

N62NA wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
They just cant do it in NY. The laws and regulations, the strong union rules make a project of this magnitude unworkable and impossible. The net result is a tunnel that will cost billions and you taking a cab from LGA 20 years from now

That is what is missing in this thread: people Misunderstand NY and its politics.

This train route is the best route because it is the only acceptable (no litigation), viable (cost effective) route possible.

It touches no houses. It is near nothing or no one, so there is little resistance. It runs over parkland, a marina, a highway, and a baseball stadium parking lot. All of which are in various states of decay. The project throws money at each of these things to make it more palatable.


This is a microcosm of why great things arent done in New York anymore. For great infrastructure projects in the US, you need to go to places like Florida, where a high speed rail is being built alongside 30 miles of the Route 528 to a huge new station at MCO. No fanfare, no endless studies, no litigation, no cost re estimates…they proposed it, they are building it, you will be riding it soon. End of story. Things like that no longer happen in NY State. it is just too hard



Oh, I know what I proposed can't be done in NY. Grew up in northern NJ and lived in NYC from 1986 - 2003, so I am very familiar with the problems - and the causes - up there.

For all the reasons you listed above, which I agree with, NY/NYC is a disaster. I really don't understand why people continue to live there if they don't absolutely have to.

Signed.. A happy resident of Florida since 2003. :-)

A hoorah for your home state or aviation/ airport related?
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:36 pm

airlinedork wrote:
The LGA AirTrain is needed for funneling passengers between LGA and throughout the tri-state area, not just business travelers to/from Midtown.


Almost no one from CT or NJ or the Hudson Valley or most of Long Island will use the AirTrain to get to LGA. Greenwich to Willets Point takes a bit over an hour-and-a-half and then you'd have to add time for the AirTrain to the terminal. Two-plus hours door-to-door (you're going to need a ride to the station since long-term parking isn't generally allowed) is just wildly uncompetitive with taking an airport limo or Uber or getting a ride from a friend/family member, plus you're going to schlep your luggage on/off trains and through stations.

These public transit links mostly just work for people who work at the airport or who are incredibly price-sensitive (n.b. I am one of the latter). The ride from GCT to LGA will be ~ 40 minutes (30 minutes on the 7, transfer time, 6 minutes to the terminal) and I just don't think that's competitive with cabs/rideshare for most New Yorkers.
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:58 am

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:08 am

STT757 wrote:


You are being ridiculous for several reasons:

1. You live here and know the local politics

2. You are very well versed on everything Port Authority

You know very well a subway extension as Guiliani proposed 20 years ago will never happen due to local opposition.

Likewise, there will be no AirTrain snaking through Queens neighborhoods to Woodside. It would be tied up in lawsuits for years.

You are aware that this route was chosen because it effects no one directly and crosses public, barren lands.

It is not ideal.

Like the tonka train at Newark isnt ideal. Like the AirTrain at JFK isnt a one seat ride. Like the gaping stump where a skyscraper should be next to your office at 4 WTC isnt ideal 20 years after 9/11.

It is a tough city with bloated agencies beholden to things like corrupt governors and public sector unions. It is very expensive and almost impossible to get anything transformative done.

But you, of all people on this forum, know that...because you are intelligent, informed, and local.

Take the train you can get while you can get it and stop complaining...it is the NY way. Any train, going in any direction will be wildly successful with high ridership...because we are trapped like rats in a box in this stupid city
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:25 am

Part of what helps the JFK AirTrain is that there's a train every 5-10 minutes between Penn and Jamaica. I think the longest I've had to wait is maybe 15 minutes on a weekend mid-day. It helps that every LIRR train leaving Penn except for Pt. Washington trains (and the Cannonball) calls at Jamaica.

Port Washington pre-Covid was a train every 30 minutes (right now, it's even less than that) - unless you get the Willets Point within a few minutes of that LIRR train arriving, it'll be just as fast to take the 7 train (and I loathe riding the NYC Subway with a suitcase).

At least at EWR, NJ Transit is running a minimum of four trains an hour for most of the day (including weekends) and Jamaica-Penn frequency is consistently good.

If I'm taking public transit from LGA, I'll stick with the Q70 to Woodside and have my pick of LIRR trains (where all Pt. Washington trains call, plus a good number of trains on the Main Line) to get me to Penn rather than deal with the new AirTrain.
 
maverick4002
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:23 pm

STT757 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
STT757 wrote:

Yup, Cuomo got his wrong way Airtrain.



Since you love the PANYNJ :)



A very good day for NY and LaGuardia Airport.

I am old enough to remember how protestors said the AirTrain to JFK would be a white elephant…and that has been one of the most successful airport train links in the country.

I expect nothing short of that with AirTrain LGA!


No one said LaGuardia shouldn’t be linked to Manhattan, the concern of most transit advocates is that:

1. This is not a one seat ride, it’s a people mover going in the wrong direction.

2. It will connect to the 7 train which is way too crowded and doesn’t go where most business travelers want to go. Pretty much the 7 train only serves 42nd street and Hudson yards in Manhattan. So most travelers who aren’t going to Times Square will have to take the Airtrain ( the wrong direction) to connect with the 7 train or LIRR. Then that person will have to travel to Manhattan and then switch to another subway ( if there’s a connection) to reach their destination.

3. The N train in comparison to the 7 train, which only has four Manhattan stations almost all along a single street, has 12-14 stations in Manhattan hitting almost every major destination (Upper East side, Herald square, Union Square, NYU, NOHO, SOHO, Canal Street, City Hall, World Trade Center and the Financial district).


Point noted but the N doesnt go down to World Trade
 
slider
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:00 pm

Can someone please clarify something for me...in reading that article, I'm curious why FAA would have the authority to hold up approvals. If there are environmental reviews necessary, wouldn't that fall under PANYNJ authority? Or because it merely "touches" LGA that puts it into the FAA's court?

Just struck me as odd.

Also, the fact New Yorkers would have NIMBY syndrome given that, you know, you live in freaking NY, makes me chuckle.
 
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STT757
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:03 pm

slider wrote:
Can someone please clarify something for me...in reading that article, I'm curious why FAA would have the authority to hold up approvals. If there are environmental reviews necessary, wouldn't that fall under PANYNJ authority? Or because it merely "touches" LGA that puts it into the FAA's court?

Just struck me as odd.

Also, the fact New Yorkers would have NIMBY syndrome given that, you know, you live in freaking NY, makes me chuckle.


Because they are using Passenger Facility Charges, PFC's, to pay for it. PFC's are those fees slapped on airline tickets. The FAA is in charge of PFC's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_facility_charge#:~:text=A%20passenger%20facility%20charge%20(PFC,according%20to%20US%20federal%20law.
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slider
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:05 pm

STT757 wrote:
slider wrote:
Can someone please clarify something for me...in reading that article, I'm curious why FAA would have the authority to hold up approvals. If there are environmental reviews necessary, wouldn't that fall under PANYNJ authority? Or because it merely "touches" LGA that puts it into the FAA's court?

Just struck me as odd.

Also, the fact New Yorkers would have NIMBY syndrome given that, you know, you live in freaking NY, makes me chuckle.


Because they are using Passenger Facility Charges, PFC's, to pay for it. PFC's are those fees slapped on airline tickets. The FAA is in charge of PFC's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_facility_charge#:~:text=A%20passenger%20facility%20charge%20(PFC,according%20to%20US%20federal%20law.



Ah, gotcha. PFCs...that explains it. Thanks. I should've known that. Appreciate the clarification!
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:12 pm

slider wrote:
STT757 wrote:
slider wrote:
Can someone please clarify something for me...in reading that article, I'm curious why FAA would have the authority to hold up approvals. If there are environmental reviews necessary, wouldn't that fall under PANYNJ authority? Or because it merely "touches" LGA that puts it into the FAA's court?

Just struck me as odd.

Also, the fact New Yorkers would have NIMBY syndrome given that, you know, you live in freaking NY, makes me chuckle.


Because they are using Passenger Facility Charges, PFC's, to pay for it. PFC's are those fees slapped on airline tickets. The FAA is in charge of PFC's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_facility_charge#:~:text=A%20passenger%20facility%20charge%20(PFC,according%20to%20US%20federal%20law.



Ah, gotcha. PFCs...that explains it. Thanks. I should've known that. Appreciate the clarification!


If you read back in the thread you will see that part of the argument for the Airtrain was a rule that PFC's couldn't be used for public transit projects that benefitted non airport travelers. Thus many airports like EWR, JFK, OAK, MIA etc.. built people movers (Airtrain) to connect airports with public transit. That rule went away in May thus PFC's can now be used for example to build a NYC Subway line right to the front door of LGA airport, negating the need for an "Airtrain".
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f35
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:19 pm

Now we just need an AirTrain connecting Willets Point to Jamaica Station.
 
sspontak
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:24 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
The only plus side of the Air Train option that no one talks about is the possibility to later add in the missing link between Willets Point and Jamaica station allowing the Air Train to then connect LGA and JFK. Under ideal conditions someone would be able to make a connection between the airports in as little as 60 minutes.


The LGA Air Train option from Jamaica also will have riders from Long Island similar to the JFK Air Train from Jamaica.
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:26 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


Since you love the PANYNJ :)



A very good day for NY and LaGuardia Airport.

I am old enough to remember how protestors said the AirTrain to JFK would be a white elephant…and that has been one of the most successful airport train links in the country.

I expect nothing short of that with AirTrain LGA!


No one said LaGuardia shouldn’t be linked to Manhattan, the concern of most transit advocates is that:

1. This is not a one seat ride, it’s a people mover going in the wrong direction.

2. It will connect to the 7 train which is way too crowded and doesn’t go where most business travelers want to go. Pretty much the 7 train only serves 42nd street and Hudson yards in Manhattan. So most travelers who aren’t going to Times Square will have to take the Airtrain ( the wrong direction) to connect with the 7 train or LIRR. Then that person will have to travel to Manhattan and then switch to another subway ( if there’s a connection) to reach their destination.

3. The N train in comparison to the 7 train, which only has four Manhattan stations almost all along a single street, has 12-14 stations in Manhattan hitting almost every major destination (Upper East side, Herald square, Union Square, NYU, NOHO, SOHO, Canal Street, City Hall, World Trade Center and the Financial district).


Point noted but the N doesnt go down to World Trade


The R and W do though, which is the same line. Basically you could run one of two routes from LGA via a N or R or W:

All lines would serve the following stations:

59th Street/Lexington ave
5th Ave / 59th street
57th street / 7th ave
49th street
Times Square
34th Street Herald Square
28th Street
23rd street
14th Street Union Square
8th street NYU
Prince Street SOHO
Canal Street

That's 12 stations the N, R, W share. From Canal Street the line splits with N going to Downtown Brooklyn, the R and W continue in Manhattan to the following stations:

City Hall
Cortland Street / World Trade Center / Oculus / PATH / Fulton Street Transit center
Rector Street
South Ferry

The LGA train could have down either of the Downtown Brooklyn or South Ferry routes, either 12-16 stations spread throughout Manhattan from the Upper East Side through to Lower Manhattan is way better than 4 stops along 42nd street.

https://new.mta.info/map/5256
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nycbjr
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:31 pm

New Yorker here, wanted to chime in on this. While not ideal the "wrong way airtrain" is likely the only way it would ever be connected to a rail line. NMBYS, regulation, cost are terrible here in NYC. Don't get me wrong I love living here! I will most certainly make use of this, as my chosen airline is Delta and they have a lot of flights at LGA. Do I wish they would extend the N? Yes! but its just not possible in this city!

I'm glad it's moving forward....
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:46 pm

STT757 wrote:

Ends with:

... Cuomo's whole infrastructure philosophy is no one will care about the details as long as he builds big, shiny things. It is a cynical view of humanity, a disrespectful approach towards his constituents, and a disservice to a city over which he has tremendous influence. It is also working for him, insofar as he keeps winning elections. Whether or not we look upon projects like the AirTrain in a generation and think of Andrew Cuomo the master builder or Andrew Cuomo the boondoggler seems not to concern him. Either way, we will think of him, and to a certain type of person, that is all that matters.

Yes, Cuomo keeps winning elections and Aaron Gordon keeps writing whiny blog posts. Seems Cuomo has a much better grip on how the average citizen thinks and that seems to rankle Gordon.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
maverick4002
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:00 pm

STT757 wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:
STT757 wrote:

No one said LaGuardia shouldn’t be linked to Manhattan, the concern of most transit advocates is that:

1. This is not a one seat ride, it’s a people mover going in the wrong direction.

2. It will connect to the 7 train which is way too crowded and doesn’t go where most business travelers want to go. Pretty much the 7 train only serves 42nd street and Hudson yards in Manhattan. So most travelers who aren’t going to Times Square will have to take the Airtrain ( the wrong direction) to connect with the 7 train or LIRR. Then that person will have to travel to Manhattan and then switch to another subway ( if there’s a connection) to reach their destination.

3. The N train in comparison to the 7 train, which only has four Manhattan stations almost all along a single street, has 12-14 stations in Manhattan hitting almost every major destination (Upper East side, Herald square, Union Square, NYU, NOHO, SOHO, Canal Street, City Hall, World Trade Center and the Financial district).


Point noted but the N doesnt go down to World Trade


The R and W do though, which is the same line. Basically you could run one of two routes from LGA via a N or R or W:

All lines would serve the following stations:

59th Street/Lexington ave
5th Ave / 59th street
57th street / 7th ave
49th street
Times Square
34th Street Herald Square
28th Street
23rd street
14th Street Union Square
8th street NYU
Prince Street SOHO
Canal Street

That's 12 stations the N, R, W share. From Canal Street the line splits with N going to Downtown Brooklyn, the R and W continue in Manhattan to the following stations:

City Hall
Cortland Street / World Trade Center / Oculus / PATH / Fulton Street Transit center
Rector Street
South Ferry

The LGA train could have down either of the Downtown Brooklyn or South Ferry routes, either 12-16 stations spread throughout Manhattan from the Upper East Side through to Lower Manhattan is way better than 4 stops along 42nd street.

https://new.mta.info/map/5256


I mean I get it. I live in NYC. But as others have said, we know the N extension isnt happening (And yes I agree this Airtrain is lame, it either needed to be at Woodside or they scrap it and put dedicated bus lanes and more express buses) but the 7 train crosses GCT, and Times Square where you can connect to almost every train in the system. The one stop will be ideal but it is waht it is. I mean, I'll still take the Q70 because it works for me coming from BK but wtvr.
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:40 pm

Revelation wrote:
STT757 wrote:

Ends with:

... Cuomo's whole infrastructure philosophy is no one will care about the details as long as he builds big, shiny things. It is a cynical view of humanity, a disrespectful approach towards his constituents, and a disservice to a city over which he has tremendous influence. It is also working for him, insofar as he keeps winning elections. Whether or not we look upon projects like the AirTrain in a generation and think of Andrew Cuomo the master builder or Andrew Cuomo the boondoggler seems not to concern him. Either way, we will think of him, and to a certain type of person, that is all that matters.

Yes, Cuomo keeps winning elections and Aaron Gordon keeps writing whiny blog posts. Seems Cuomo has a much better grip on how the average citizen thinks and that seems to rankle Gordon.


I don't think Aaron Gordon is giving Cuomo political advice. He's just (correctly) noting that Cuomo's meddling is purely performative, designed to make the governor look good rather than actually fix the problems facing the City's infrastructure.

I also don't think Cuomo's got a particularly good handle on what the citizens really want. He ran off Andy Byford who was doing great things for the subways, and that's hardly a popular move. There are other reasons why Cuomo has won election, and it sadly has little to do with perceptions of his actual job performance.
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:26 pm

blockski wrote:
Revelation wrote:
STT757 wrote:

Ends with:

... Cuomo's whole infrastructure philosophy is no one will care about the details as long as he builds big, shiny things. It is a cynical view of humanity, a disrespectful approach towards his constituents, and a disservice to a city over which he has tremendous influence. It is also working for him, insofar as he keeps winning elections. Whether or not we look upon projects like the AirTrain in a generation and think of Andrew Cuomo the master builder or Andrew Cuomo the boondoggler seems not to concern him. Either way, we will think of him, and to a certain type of person, that is all that matters.

Yes, Cuomo keeps winning elections and Aaron Gordon keeps writing whiny blog posts. Seems Cuomo has a much better grip on how the average citizen thinks and that seems to rankle Gordon.


I don't think Aaron Gordon is giving Cuomo political advice. He's just (correctly) noting that Cuomo's meddling is purely performative, designed to make the governor look good rather than actually fix the problems facing the City's infrastructure.

I also don't think Cuomo's got a particularly good handle on what the citizens really want. He ran off Andy Byford who was doing great things for the subways, and that's hardly a popular move. There are other reasons why Cuomo has won election, and it sadly has little to do with perceptions of his actual job performance.

I am not sure why you think Cuomo's pet projects are performative.
Many people commented that LGA is almost OK by third world standards, old penn station and bus terminal are not better. Tappan Zee bridge was discussed as if it is going to collapse - and I tend to believe after a few high profile failures, like I-55 in Memphis.
If Cuomo cannot do everything, it is because NYC needs more or less a total rebuild, and it didn't grew that way on Cuomo's watch... So one piece at a time.
There is no money for new subway or all the tunnels.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:40 pm

The LGA rebuild wasnt getting done without Cuomo.

The evidence of that is quite simply that the Port Authority was trying to replace the Central Terminal since the late 90s.

A patch job would’ve been done… It would not have been a transformative rebuild of the entire airport.

Andrew is showy and splashy.

It works well for New York because most New Yorkers are pushy and obnoxious and they respect someone that gets things done. It’s just part of living in a very hard city
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:42 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
The LGA rebuild wasnt getting done without Cuomo.

The evidence of that is quite simply that the Port Authority was trying to replace the Central Terminal since the late 90s.

A patch job would’ve been done… It would not have been a transformative rebuild of the entire airport.

Andrew is showy and splashy.

It works well for New York because most New Yorkers are pushy and obnoxious and they respect someone that gets things done. It’s just part of living in a very hard city

:checkmark:

I think that's what others are missing, Cuomo is very good at working within the realm of the possible. Things are getting done. Of course it's not enough, more is always needed. Of course it's not world class, that would take sacrifices that people aren't willing to make. Of course it's outrageously expensive, that goes without saying in NYC.
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airlinedork
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:49 pm

ScottB wrote:
airlinedork wrote:
The LGA AirTrain is needed for funneling passengers between LGA and throughout the tri-state area, not just business travelers to/from Midtown.


Almost no one from CT or NJ or the Hudson Valley or most of Long Island will use the AirTrain to get to LGA. Greenwich to Willets Point takes a bit over an hour-and-a-half and then you'd have to add time for the AirTrain to the terminal. Two-plus hours door-to-door (you're going to need a ride to the station since long-term parking isn't generally allowed) is just wildly uncompetitive with taking an airport limo or Uber or getting a ride from a friend/family member, plus you're going to schlep your luggage on/off trains and through stations.

These public transit links mostly just work for people who work at the airport or who are incredibly price-sensitive (n.b. I am one of the latter). The ride from GCT to LGA will be ~ 40 minutes (30 minutes on the 7, transfer time, 6 minutes to the terminal) and I just don't think that's competitive with cabs/rideshare for most New Yorkers.


I should clarify - this is from a political point of view. Connecting the LGA AirTrain to Willets Point will enable mass transit connections to/from LGA for Amtrak, Metro North and NJ Transit, which tells a good political story. Of course, given how bad traffic can be, you may see people opt for these mass transit connections, however in reality the majority of LGA AirTrain users will be NYC/LI.
 
blockski
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:49 pm

kalvado wrote:
blockski wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Ends with:


Yes, Cuomo keeps winning elections and Aaron Gordon keeps writing whiny blog posts. Seems Cuomo has a much better grip on how the average citizen thinks and that seems to rankle Gordon.


I don't think Aaron Gordon is giving Cuomo political advice. He's just (correctly) noting that Cuomo's meddling is purely performative, designed to make the governor look good rather than actually fix the problems facing the City's infrastructure.

I also don't think Cuomo's got a particularly good handle on what the citizens really want. He ran off Andy Byford who was doing great things for the subways, and that's hardly a popular move. There are other reasons why Cuomo has won election, and it sadly has little to do with perceptions of his actual job performance.

I am not sure why you think Cuomo's pet projects are performative.
Many people commented that LGA is almost OK by third world standards, old penn station and bus terminal are not better. Tappan Zee bridge was discussed as if it is going to collapse - and I tend to believe after a few high profile failures, like I-55 in Memphis.
If Cuomo cannot do everything, it is because NYC needs more or less a total rebuild, and it didn't grew that way on Cuomo's watch... So one piece at a time.
There is no money for new subway or all the tunnels.


Because he's not interested in building good projects, or building cost-effective projects. He's interested in projects that shine glory on him.

His response to COVID is illustrative of the approach to infrastructure - focused on delivering good TV press conferences rather than actually solving the root problems.

It's not that he's building one piece at the time, but he's building the wrong pieces.
 
kalvado
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:09 pm

blockski wrote:
kalvado wrote:
blockski wrote:

I don't think Aaron Gordon is giving Cuomo political advice. He's just (correctly) noting that Cuomo's meddling is purely performative, designed to make the governor look good rather than actually fix the problems facing the City's infrastructure.

I also don't think Cuomo's got a particularly good handle on what the citizens really want. He ran off Andy Byford who was doing great things for the subways, and that's hardly a popular move. There are other reasons why Cuomo has won election, and it sadly has little to do with perceptions of his actual job performance.

I am not sure why you think Cuomo's pet projects are performative.
Many people commented that LGA is almost OK by third world standards, old penn station and bus terminal are not better. Tappan Zee bridge was discussed as if it is going to collapse - and I tend to believe after a few high profile failures, like I-55 in Memphis.
If Cuomo cannot do everything, it is because NYC needs more or less a total rebuild, and it didn't grew that way on Cuomo's watch... So one piece at a time.
There is no money for new subway or all the tunnels.


Because he's not interested in building good projects, or building cost-effective projects. He's interested in projects that shine glory on him.

His response to COVID is illustrative of the approach to infrastructure - focused on delivering good TV press conferences rather than actually solving the root problems.

It's not that he's building one piece at the time, but he's building the wrong pieces.

Alternative to what Cuomo is doing isn't a "cost effective project" - alternative is "no build"
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:54 pm

If married to the Airtrain they should have choose a connection to Woodside, it’s going in the right direction and it serves the LIRR’s mainline which means way more trains than the Port Washington branch.
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:38 pm

STT757 wrote:
If married to the Airtrain they should have choose a connection to Woodside, it’s going in the right direction and it serves the LIRR’s mainline which means way more trains than the Port Washington branch.



How would you get it there? Snake it over peoples houses? Down side streets?

Follow the highway in a circuitous route?

How?

And what is your time frame for doing that?
 
blockski
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:13 pm

kalvado wrote:
blockski wrote:
kalvado wrote:
I am not sure why you think Cuomo's pet projects are performative.
Many people commented that LGA is almost OK by third world standards, old penn station and bus terminal are not better. Tappan Zee bridge was discussed as if it is going to collapse - and I tend to believe after a few high profile failures, like I-55 in Memphis.
If Cuomo cannot do everything, it is because NYC needs more or less a total rebuild, and it didn't grew that way on Cuomo's watch... So one piece at a time.
There is no money for new subway or all the tunnels.


Because he's not interested in building good projects, or building cost-effective projects. He's interested in projects that shine glory on him.

His response to COVID is illustrative of the approach to infrastructure - focused on delivering good TV press conferences rather than actually solving the root problems.

It's not that he's building one piece at the time, but he's building the wrong pieces.

Alternative to what Cuomo is doing isn't a "cost effective project" - alternative is "no build"


Yeah, probably. And the sad thing is - that's probably a better travel choice for most riders!

It's not just that this isn't an ideal project; it's going to spend billions and make the outcomes for travelers worse.
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:23 pm

blockski wrote:


It's not just that this isn't an ideal project; it's going to spend billions and make the outcomes for travelers worse.


Well, no - you're being hyperbolic. Every person leaving by Airtrain won't be leaving in a car (theirs, Uber) or bus, and that's a good thing in that it reduces traffic and emissions.
 
blockski
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:32 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
blockski wrote:


It's not just that this isn't an ideal project; it's going to spend billions and make the outcomes for travelers worse.


Well, no - you're being hyperbolic. Every person leaving by Airtrain won't be leaving in a car (theirs, Uber) or bus, and that's a good thing in that it reduces traffic and emissions.


They're going to spend billions on a train system that will be a worse (e.g. slower) travel option than the existing Q70 bus.
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:31 pm

blockski wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
blockski wrote:

It's not just that this isn't an ideal project; it's going to spend billions and make the outcomes for travelers worse.

Well, no - you're being hyperbolic. Every person leaving by Airtrain won't be leaving in a car (theirs, Uber) or bus, and that's a good thing in that it reduces traffic and emissions.

They're going to spend billions on a train system that will be a worse (e.g. slower) travel option than the existing Q70 bus.

Then you should be happy, each person who gets on Airtrain will create an empty seat for you on that Q70 bus..
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:08 pm

I realize most New Yorkers would rather that the transportation options be primarily geared to them and not for visitors to the city, but most visitors are not going to choose to take the bus, nor be able toeven figure out the bus system.

But the N.E. Corridor runs near there, right? Why can't they build a station on that, run a shuttle from the airport to that station, and not only get a train ride into the city, but be able to connect the airport to the N.E. Corridor?
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:49 pm

cloudboy wrote:
I realize most New Yorkers would rather that the transportation options be primarily geared to them and not for visitors to the city, but most visitors are not going to choose to take the bus, nor be able toeven figure out the bus system.

But the N.E. Corridor runs near there, right? Why can't they build a station on that, run a shuttle from the airport to that station, and not only get a train ride into the city, but be able to connect the airport to the N.E. Corridor?


Its not that close, not too far either, but there's no station anywhere near LGA. The closest station is NY Penn Station in Manhattan.
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peterinlisbon
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:03 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
N62NA wrote:

Exactly. Which is what they do (and then actually tunnel for a bit to clear the runways) for LAX 25R/L.



Just tunnel under the Grand Central at that point for the remaining mile or so to the main terminal. Plenty of room between 23rd Ave and the Grand Central at that spot. This is not rocket science.


They just cant do it in NY. The laws and regulations, the strong union rules make a project of this magnitude unworkable and impossible. The net result is a tunnel that will cost billions and you taking a cab from LGA 20 years from now

That is what is missing in this thread: people Misunderstand NY and its politics.

This train route is the best route because it is the only acceptable (no litigation), viable (cost effective) route possible.

It touches no houses. It is near nothing or no one, so there is little resistance. It runs over parkland, a marina, a highway, and a baseball stadium parking lot. All of which are in various states of decay. The project throws money at each of these things to make it more palatable.


This is a microcosm of why great things arent done in New York anymore. For great infrastructure projects in the US, you need to go to places like Florida, where a high speed rail is being built alongside 30 miles of the Route 528 to a huge new station at MCO. No fanfare, no endless studies, no litigation, no cost re estimates…they proposed it, they are building it, you will be riding it soon. End of story. Things like that no longer happen in NY State. it is just too hard


I take it you're referring to Brightline. There definitely was litigation involved. Brightline was sued by Martin County (lawsuit dropped in 2018) and Indian River County (lawsuit dropped in June 2021) here in FL. That IRC court battle lasted 7 years and only got settled earlier this month. NIMBY-ism is a problem that exists all over the US, essentially everywhere. I'm not sure why you feel it's a NY/NYC specific problem.

And Florida and great infrastructure...c'mon. Not even the most diehard Floridian would argue our infrastructure is great or anywhere near it.

https://www.wptv.com/news/region-indian ... whats-next


I think the reason why countries like China can build high speed train networks and so on is that they can just move anything they want out of the way and nobody can challenge them. Some countries have it even worse, though. When I was living in Costa Rica, I remember there was a road (the western coastal highway) that had been planned for over 70 years and still hadn't been finished because of land disputes. With regard to aviation, their airport hadn't been expanded in years whilst Panama had overtaken them.
 
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:16 pm

cloudboy wrote:
I realize most New Yorkers would rather that the transportation options be primarily geared to them and not for visitors to the city, but most visitors are not going to choose to take the bus, nor be able toeven figure out the bus system.

But the N.E. Corridor runs near there, right? Why can't they build a station on that, run a shuttle from the airport to that station, and not only get a train ride into the city, but be able to connect the airport to the N.E. Corridor?


There are no stations on the NEC in NYC besides New York Penn. There are plans however as a broader part of east side access and west side access of building metro north stations in the Bronx on the NEC, Astoria, and Sunnyside. These are years away though and wouldn’t be close enough to consider using as access.
 
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:56 pm

N757ST wrote:
cloudboy wrote:
I realize most New Yorkers would rather that the transportation options be primarily geared to them and not for visitors to the city, but most visitors are not going to choose to take the bus, nor be able toeven figure out the bus system.

But the N.E. Corridor runs near there, right? Why can't they build a station on that, run a shuttle from the airport to that station, and not only get a train ride into the city, but be able to connect the airport to the N.E. Corridor?


There are no stations on the NEC in NYC besides New York Penn. There are plans however as a broader part of east side access and west side access of building metro north stations in the Bronx on the NEC, Astoria, and Sunnyside. These are years away though and wouldn’t be close enough to consider using as access.


Stations in the Bronx yes, I have not seen any plans for stations in Astoria or Sunnyside.

https://new.mta.info/projects/penn-station-access
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:17 am

blockski wrote:
kalvado wrote:
blockski wrote:

I don't think Aaron Gordon is giving Cuomo political advice. He's just (correctly) noting that Cuomo's meddling is purely performative, designed to make the governor look good rather than actually fix the problems facing the City's infrastructure.

I also don't think Cuomo's got a particularly good handle on what the citizens really want. He ran off Andy Byford who was doing great things for the subways, and that's hardly a popular move. There are other reasons why Cuomo has won election, and it sadly has little to do with perceptions of his actual job performance.

I am not sure why you think Cuomo's pet projects are performative.
Many people commented that LGA is almost OK by third world standards, old penn station and bus terminal are not better. Tappan Zee bridge was discussed as if it is going to collapse - and I tend to believe after a few high profile failures, like I-55 in Memphis.
If Cuomo cannot do everything, it is because NYC needs more or less a total rebuild, and it didn't grew that way on Cuomo's watch... So one piece at a time.
There is no money for new subway or all the tunnels.


Because he's not interested in building good projects, or building cost-effective projects. He's interested in projects that shine glory on him.

His response to COVID is illustrative of the approach to infrastructure - focused on delivering good TV press conferences rather than actually solving the root problems.

It's not that he's building one piece at the time, but he's building the wrong pieces.


If they are going to use the same technology as the JFK Airtrain it is actually a very good platform for building large scale metro systems. They just happen to be using for a very short distance train in this case. But Bombardier Innovia can easily be extended well beyond being a people mover.

The Bombardier Innovia Metro technology in Vancouver is used for a 25 km and 30 km metro line. Similar distance lines are in use in South Korea, Saudi Arabia and Malaysia. The Beijing airport line uses it for a 27 km line. As a fully automated technology being able to inclemently build out these two lines would be a major win for New York.
 
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:23 am

Revelation wrote:
blockski wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Well, no - you're being hyperbolic. Every person leaving by Airtrain won't be leaving in a car (theirs, Uber) or bus, and that's a good thing in that it reduces traffic and emissions.

They're going to spend billions on a train system that will be a worse (e.g. slower) travel option than the existing Q70 bus.

Then you should be happy, each person who gets on Airtrain will create an empty seat for you on that Q70 bus..


What makes you think they won't shutter the Q70?
 
N757ST
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:09 pm

STT757 wrote:
N757ST wrote:
cloudboy wrote:
I realize most New Yorkers would rather that the transportation options be primarily geared to them and not for visitors to the city, but most visitors are not going to choose to take the bus, nor be able toeven figure out the bus system.

But the N.E. Corridor runs near there, right? Why can't they build a station on that, run a shuttle from the airport to that station, and not only get a train ride into the city, but be able to connect the airport to the N.E. Corridor?


There are no stations on the NEC in NYC besides New York Penn. There are plans however as a broader part of east side access and west side access of building metro north stations in the Bronx on the NEC, Astoria, and Sunnyside. These are years away though and wouldn’t be close enough to consider using as access.


Stations in the Bronx yes, I have not seen any plans for stations in Astoria or Sunnyside.

https://new.mta.info/projects/penn-station-access



Sorry Astoria is not in the plans yet but is being talked about, albeit with many hurdles. Sunni side is very much in the planing stage, and looks to be a rail hub. The plan is for it to have metro north and LIRR service, as well as connections to the M, R, and E trains. There is also talk of covering the Sunni side yards.
 
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:02 pm

N757ST wrote:
STT757 wrote:
N757ST wrote:

There are no stations on the NEC in NYC besides New York Penn. There are plans however as a broader part of east side access and west side access of building metro north stations in the Bronx on the NEC, Astoria, and Sunnyside. These are years away though and wouldn’t be close enough to consider using as access.


Stations in the Bronx yes, I have not seen any plans for stations in Astoria or Sunnyside.

https://new.mta.info/projects/penn-station-access



Sorry Astoria is not in the plans yet but is being talked about, albeit with many hurdles. Sunni side is very much in the planing stage, and looks to be a rail hub. The plan is for it to have metro north and LIRR service, as well as connections to the M, R, and E trains. There is also talk of covering the Sunni side yards.


I've never seen any of those options discussed anywhere outside of maybe transit Twitter, does the RPA have a proposal? Astoria is really difficult if not impossible, look on Google Maps, it's nothing but homes abutting right up to the elevated line. No place to build a station, parking etc.. Sunnyside makes sense and could include NJ Transit, Amtrak, LIRR and Metro North. They just dumped a ton of money (Billions?) in reconfiguring all those sitches at Harold, not sure there's an appetite to visit that again.

I always thought it made tons of sense for a convention center at Sunnyside. Remember those plans to build huge casinos and convention space at Aqueduct Lol.. That was hands down Cuomo's worst idea. Looks much worse almost ten years later. If I recall correctly they were going to extend the JFK Airtrain into Aqueduct.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/nyregion/cuomo-proposes-convention-center-at-aqueduct-in-queens.html
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ikramerica
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:16 pm

B6BOSfan wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:

A very good day for NY and LaGuardia Airport.

I am old enough to remember how protestors said the AirTrain to JFK would be a white elephant…and that has been one of the most successful airport train links in the country.

I expect nothing short of that with AirTrain LGA!


Seriously! Remember growing up in southern Brooklyn and being in awe at what was happening on the Van Wyck when they actually were building it. It's spectacular, and so many other cities (ahem, Boston) would love to have it!

STT757 wrote:

No one said LaGuardia shouldn’t be linked to Manhattan, the concern of most transit advocates is that:

1. This is not a one seat ride, it’s a people mover going in the wrong direction.

2. It will connect to the 7 train which is way too crowded and doesn’t go where most business travelers want to go. Pretty much the 7 train only serves 42nd street and Hudson yards in Manhattan. So most travelers who aren’t going to Times Square will have to take the Airtrain ( the wrong direction) to connect with the 7 train or LIRR. Then that person will have to travel to Manhattan and then switch to another subway ( if there’s a connection) to reach their destination.

3. The N train in comparison to the 7 train, which only has four Manhattan stations almost all along a single street, has 12-14 stations in Manhattan hitting almost every major destination (Upper East side, Herald square, Union Square, NYU, NOHO, SOHO, Canal Street, City Hall, World Trade Center and the Financial district).


The idea -- as I understand it -- IS to get passengers to connect to the LIRR for a one-stop ride into Penn Station -- a transit hub that can make connections to multiple other places. With the completion of tunnels under the East River, I'd imagine you could also catch a train into Grand Central too --- which offers more connections.

You are NEVER going to get a one seat ride, ever. The JFK train isn't that, and any kind of LGA train won't be. If you did build it to Astoria/Ditmars Blvd. -- you'd be fully reliant on the N/W subway. There's a finite number of trains you can run on those two tracks. You'd also face a ton of NIMBYism. I hope someday it could also go that way -- and make it a two-way option.

It’s not just manhattan. Let’s not get overly focused on manhattan. Connecting to the LIRR also means train to LGA from the north shore area. Ultimately (long term) extending the Airtran to Jamaica could be a thing, connecting JFK to LGA and LGA to the many LiRR routes east.
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:42 pm

ikramerica wrote:
B6BOSfan wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:

A very good day for NY and LaGuardia Airport.

I am old enough to remember how protestors said the AirTrain to JFK would be a white elephant…and that has been one of the most successful airport train links in the country.

I expect nothing short of that with AirTrain LGA!


Seriously! Remember growing up in southern Brooklyn and being in awe at what was happening on the Van Wyck when they actually were building it. It's spectacular, and so many other cities (ahem, Boston) would love to have it!

STT757 wrote:

No one said LaGuardia shouldn’t be linked to Manhattan, the concern of most transit advocates is that:

1. This is not a one seat ride, it’s a people mover going in the wrong direction.

2. It will connect to the 7 train which is way too crowded and doesn’t go where most business travelers want to go. Pretty much the 7 train only serves 42nd street and Hudson yards in Manhattan. So most travelers who aren’t going to Times Square will have to take the Airtrain ( the wrong direction) to connect with the 7 train or LIRR. Then that person will have to travel to Manhattan and then switch to another subway ( if there’s a connection) to reach their destination.

3. The N train in comparison to the 7 train, which only has four Manhattan stations almost all along a single street, has 12-14 stations in Manhattan hitting almost every major destination (Upper East side, Herald square, Union Square, NYU, NOHO, SOHO, Canal Street, City Hall, World Trade Center and the Financial district).


The idea -- as I understand it -- IS to get passengers to connect to the LIRR for a one-stop ride into Penn Station -- a transit hub that can make connections to multiple other places. With the completion of tunnels under the East River, I'd imagine you could also catch a train into Grand Central too --- which offers more connections.

You are NEVER going to get a one seat ride, ever. The JFK train isn't that, and any kind of LGA train won't be. If you did build it to Astoria/Ditmars Blvd. -- you'd be fully reliant on the N/W subway. There's a finite number of trains you can run on those two tracks. You'd also face a ton of NIMBYism. I hope someday it could also go that way -- and make it a two-way option.

It’s not just manhattan. Let’s not get overly focused on manhattan. Connecting to the LIRR also means train to LGA from the north shore area. Ultimately (long term) extending the Airtran to Jamaica could be a thing, connecting JFK to LGA and LGA to the many LiRR routes east.



That would ultimately make this project great. God willing the two systems will be compatible!!

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