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jfklganyc
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:45 pm

:lol:
STT757 wrote:
N757ST wrote:
STT757 wrote:

Stations in the Bronx yes, I have not seen any plans for stations in Astoria or Sunnyside.

https://new.mta.info/projects/penn-station-access



Sorry Astoria is not in the plans yet but is being talked about, albeit with many hurdles. Sunni side is very much in the planing stage, and looks to be a rail hub. The plan is for it to have metro north and LIRR service, as well as connections to the M, R, and E trains. There is also talk of covering the Sunni side yards.


I've never seen any of those options discussed anywhere outside of maybe transit Twitter, does the RPA have a proposal? Astoria is really difficult if not impossible, look on Google Maps, it's nothing but homes abutting right up to the elevated line. No place to build a station, parking etc.. Sunnyside makes sense and could include NJ Transit, Amtrak, LIRR and Metro North. They just dumped a ton of money (Billions?) in reconfiguring all those sitches at Harold, not sure there's an appetite to visit that again.

I always thought it made tons of sense for a convention center at Sunnyside. Remember those plans to build huge casinos and convention space at Aqueduct Lol.. That was hands down Cuomo's worst idea. Looks much worse almost ten years later. If I recall correctly they were going to extend the JFK Airtrain into Aqueduct.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/nyregion/cuomo-proposes-convention-center-at-aqueduct-in-queens.html

:o

Hyatt Regency JFK Airport opens up at Aqueduct Casino next month…if you could believe that
 
NYCAdvantage
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:59 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Hyatt Regency JFK Airport opens up at Aqueduct Casino next month…if you could believe that

I do believe that you have to get a starting or a connecting point, in order to connect LGA to NYC,
It may not be the most logical place, But is the only place where you could in the future connect, with the fewest
environmental problems, LIRR & Metro north if they desire to do it, I know that #7 is the only other option for now,
not necessary the best, But eventually I think they are thinking on a bigger scale.
 
TW870
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:52 pm

blockski wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
blockski wrote:


It's not just that this isn't an ideal project; it's going to spend billions and make the outcomes for travelers worse.


Well, no - you're being hyperbolic. Every person leaving by Airtrain won't be leaving in a car (theirs, Uber) or bus, and that's a good thing in that it reduces traffic and emissions.


They're going to spend billions on a train system that will be a worse (e.g. slower) travel option than the existing Q70 bus.


This is my question exactly. The existing Q70 to the E/F will still be a far faster way to get to most of Manhattan than the new air train connecting to the 7 train or even the LIRR. I understand that many people are not going to Manhattan and that the new train is supposed to be a faster connect to the LIRR. But for all this money, how much faster is going to be than taking the Q70 to Woodside?

One thing to note is that the Q70 has gotten a lot better than it used to be. The new 60-foot buses are roomier, and you can pay with your phone now by just tapping it on the reader. No more need to have 13 quarters at terminals C and D!
 
JFKalumni
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:34 pm

TW870 wrote:
blockski wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Well, no - you're being hyperbolic. Every person leaving by Airtrain won't be leaving in a car (theirs, Uber) or bus, and that's a good thing in that it reduces traffic and emissions.


They're going to spend billions on a train system that will be a worse (e.g. slower) travel option than the existing Q70 bus.


This is my question exactly. The existing Q70 to the E/F will still be a far faster way to get to most of Manhattan than the new air train connecting to the 7 train or even the LIRR. I understand that many people are not going to Manhattan and that the new train is supposed to be a faster connect to the LIRR. But for all this money, how much faster is going to be than taking the Q70 to Woodside?

One thing to note is that the Q70 has gotten a lot better than it used to be. The new 60-foot buses are roomier, and you can pay with your phone now by just tapping it on the reader. No more need to have 13 quarters at terminals C and D!


At this point it would’ve been cheaper and easier to split the Q70. One bus to 74th street Jackson Heights terminal and another bus to Woodside. Less overcrowding conditions and access to the majority of the branch lines besides Port Washington. Another solution would be to extend the Q23 into the airport. This would provide another transfer point via the LIRR Forest Hills station.

This Airtrain will only benefit passengers and employees who live along the Port Washington branch or travelers utilizing Metro North / LIRR east side access.

Even then it’s easier to get off in Harlem and catch the M60.
 
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alberchico
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:46 pm

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/03/ny-gov- ... eport.html

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/08/03 ... drew-cuomo

The guy who has single handedly spearheaded this project despite enourmous opposition is going down in flames big time because of serious sexual harassment allegations. I honestly think this is the final nail in the LGA Airtrain coffin.

People need to read the full report to understand what a bombshell this is.

It goes even further beyond the previous allegations against Cuomo. There's a new one by a state trooper who describes absolutely disgusting behavior by him.

According to the investigation Cuomo broke state and federal laws. He's done. NY might have a new governor in the next few days. That's how bad this is.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:57 pm

N757ST wrote:
The current plan isn’t perfect but it has the chance to actually be built in the next decade.

That's pretty much the best summary of this that I have come across. Essentially, pragmatically sound. Kudos, and thank you!
 
kalvado
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:07 pm

alberchico wrote:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/03/ny-gov-andrew-cuomo-sexual-harassment-report.html

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/08/03 ... drew-cuomo

The guy who has single handedly spearheaded this project despite enourmous opposition is going down in flames big time because of serious sexual harassment allegations. I honestly think this is the final nail in the LGA Airtrain coffin.

People need to read the full report to understand what a bombshell this is.

It goes even further beyond the previous allegations against Cuomo. There's a new one by a state trooper who describes absolutely disgusting behavior by him.

According to the investigation Cuomo broke state and federal laws. He's done. NY might have a new governor in the next few days. That's how bad this is.

I am far from being Cuomo's fan, and don't want to steer thread into politics.
On construction side, Cuomo pushed through quite a few things. Those projects will be part of his legacy, whenever he leaves the post - whether that would happen tomorrow as you assume - or more likely after his next term as I suspect. Not a spot-free part of the legacy, but still something his name would be attached to for decades to come.
Cuomo going out of office can affect Airtrain - but I hope it wouldn't. But we'll see
 
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STT757
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:18 pm

Wow, here we go again. With Cuomo’s resignation Port Authority staffers are demanding that the LGA Airtrain be cancelled. They say Cuomo bullied the agency into the flawed project, talk about wild change of fortunes. Let’s see what the new Governor does with the Port Authority board.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-port-authority-staff-laguardia-airtrain-protest-20210810-lljd2ohofzaolkzgvj4jvb52eq-story.html

The Board didn’t give its final approval yet, Cuomo was trying to rush it so he could do a ribbon cutting.
 
leader1
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:26 pm

STT757 wrote:
Wow, here we go again. With Cuomo’s resignation Port Authority staffers are demanding that the LGA Airtrain be cancelled. They say Cuomo bullied the agency into the flawed project, talk about wild change of fortunes. Let’s see what the new Governor does with the Port Authority board.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-port-authority-staff-laguardia-airtrain-protest-20210810-lljd2ohofzaolkzgvj4jvb52eq-story.html

The Board didn’t give its final approval yet, Cuomo was trying to rush it so he could do a ribbon cutting.


Oh please. The project isn’t going away no matter how much you want it to. And based on all your posts, you’re so desperate to see this and any other NY project fail.

Sorry, but there won’t be any N-train extension to LGA to fulfill your fantasies. It’s either this AirTrain or being stuck with the Q70 bus forever.
 
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STT757
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:38 pm

leader1 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Wow, here we go again. With Cuomo’s resignation Port Authority staffers are demanding that the LGA Airtrain be cancelled. They say Cuomo bullied the agency into the flawed project, talk about wild change of fortunes. Let’s see what the new Governor does with the Port Authority board.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-port-authority-staff-laguardia-airtrain-protest-20210810-lljd2ohofzaolkzgvj4jvb52eq-story.html

The Board didn’t give its final approval yet, Cuomo was trying to rush it so he could do a ribbon cutting.


Oh please. The project isn’t going away no matter how much you want it to. And based on all your posts, you’re so desperate to see this and any other NY project fail.

Sorry, but there won’t be any N-train extension to LGA to fulfill your fantasies. It’s either this AirTrain or being stuck with the Q70 bus forever.


Let’s see what shakes out, next board meeting is September 30, which is when it was to be formally approved. Not sure if the new Governor is on board or not with the project.
 
leader1
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:49 pm

STT757 wrote:
leader1 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Wow, here we go again. With Cuomo’s resignation Port Authority staffers are demanding that the LGA Airtrain be cancelled. They say Cuomo bullied the agency into the flawed project, talk about wild change of fortunes. Let’s see what the new Governor does with the Port Authority board.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-port-authority-staff-laguardia-airtrain-protest-20210810-lljd2ohofzaolkzgvj4jvb52eq-story.html

The Board didn’t give its final approval yet, Cuomo was trying to rush it so he could do a ribbon cutting.


Oh please. The project isn’t going away no matter how much you want it to. And based on all your posts, you’re so desperate to see this and any other NY project fail.

Sorry, but there won’t be any N-train extension to LGA to fulfill your fantasies. It’s either this AirTrain or being stuck with the Q70 bus forever.


Don’t tell me, tell the Agency which is supposed to build it.


I guess time will tell, right? A few disgruntled employees won’t move this one way or the other. What does matter is how the Board votes, and they haven’t listed any concerns about it.
 
wjcandee
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:18 am

Those same Port Authority employees don't want to go back to work in the office, either. https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny ... story.html

The PA is a bloated, highly-politicized agency with a decades-long reputation for incompetence. So is the MTA. Cuomo personally drove both to produce and accomplish. N Line 14th Street Tunnel. Midtown Tunnel. Tappan Zee Bridge. 2nd Avenue Subway. LGA Improvments. JFK Improvements. LIRR to Grand Central. All these things were completed or made progress that was atypical for those agencies. His departure likely means that there will be upheaval in both, and that the inmates will retake the asylum to some extent. How much remains to be seen.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:29 am

leader1 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Wow, here we go again. With Cuomo’s resignation Port Authority staffers are demanding that the LGA Airtrain be cancelled. They say Cuomo bullied the agency into the flawed project, talk about wild change of fortunes. Let’s see what the new Governor does with the Port Authority board.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-port-authority-staff-laguardia-airtrain-protest-20210810-lljd2ohofzaolkzgvj4jvb52eq-story.html

The Board didn’t give its final approval yet, Cuomo was trying to rush it so he could do a ribbon cutting.


Oh please. The project isn’t going away no matter how much you want it to. And based on all your posts, you’re so desperate to see this and any other NY project fail.

Sorry, but there won’t be any N-train extension to LGA to fulfill your fantasies. It’s either this AirTrain or being stuck with the Q70 bus forever.



It is Jealousy. Sounds ridiculous but true. He so wants that PATH extension to EWR. Just a dream and an a.net post away…and it will happen! :)
 
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STT757
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:45 am

wjcandee wrote:
Those same Port Authority employees don't want to go back to work in the office, either. https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny ... story.html

The PA is a bloated, highly-politicized agency with a decades-long reputation for incompetence. So is the MTA. Cuomo personally drove both to produce and accomplish. N Line 14th Street Tunnel. Midtown Tunnel. Tappan Zee Bridge. 2nd Avenue Subway. LGA Improvments. JFK Improvements. LIRR to Grand Central. All these things were completed or made progress that was atypical for those agencies. His departure likely means that there will be upheaval in both, and that the inmates will retake the asylum to some extent. How much remains to be seen.


Most of those projects were started before he was Governor, Second ave Subway and East Side access in
particular.
 
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STT757
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:31 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
leader1 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Wow, here we go again. With Cuomo’s resignation Port Authority staffers are demanding that the LGA Airtrain be cancelled. They say Cuomo bullied the agency into the flawed project, talk about wild change of fortunes. Let’s see what the new Governor does with the Port Authority board.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-port-authority-staff-laguardia-airtrain-protest-20210810-lljd2ohofzaolkzgvj4jvb52eq-story.html

The Board didn’t give its final approval yet, Cuomo was trying to rush it so he could do a ribbon cutting.


Oh please. The project isn’t going away no matter how much you want it to. And based on all your posts, you’re so desperate to see this and any other NY project fail.

Sorry, but there won’t be any N-train extension to LGA to fulfill your fantasies. It’s either this AirTrain or being stuck with the Q70 bus forever.



It is Jealousy. Sounds ridiculous but true. He so wants that PATH extension to EWR. Just a dream and an a.net post away…and it will happen! :)


Check out my past statements in which I actually support the Airtrain to the 7 train from way back in 2003.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219873
 
LCDFlight
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:11 pm

The sensible project remains subway extension.

Remember, we are talking about a blank check during the Biden presidency. It's 2021, a year of unprecedented spending. There is an enormous infrastructure bill, with near unlimited funding, just happens to be crossing Congress right now.

People say a subway is impossible? It's completely possible. One charismatic leader could easily make it happen. Perhaps AOC is that leader. Getting $5 billion for subway extension would be a five minute conversation between the key people right now.
 
blockski
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:26 pm

STT757 wrote:
Wow, here we go again. With Cuomo’s resignation Port Authority staffers are demanding that the LGA Airtrain be cancelled. They say Cuomo bullied the agency into the flawed project, talk about wild change of fortunes. Let’s see what the new Governor does with the Port Authority board.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-port-authority-staff-laguardia-airtrain-protest-20210810-lljd2ohofzaolkzgvj4jvb52eq-story.html

The Board didn’t give its final approval yet, Cuomo was trying to rush it so he could do a ribbon cutting.


It's good to know that the staff at the Port Authority remain sensible and know both what a bad project this is and also what a farce the actual environmental review has been.

The thing is, you don't even need to take the staff's word on this - it's obvious that the Governor had bullied the agency into a flawed project. The basic timeline is quite clear on this point: Cuomo announced the project himself, then the PA had to retroactively conduct a NEPA review to fit the pre-determined conclusion - and that required them to make all sorts of absurd statements that were called out in real time.
 
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FiscAutTecGarte
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:52 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
The sensible project remains subway extension.

Remember, we are talking about a blank check during the Biden presidency. It's 2021, a year of unprecedented spending. There is an enormous infrastructure bill, with near unlimited funding, just happens to be crossing Congress right now.

People say a subway is impossible? It's completely possible. One charismatic leader could easily make it happen. Perhaps AOC is that leader. Getting $5 billion for subway extension would be a five minute conversation between the key people right now.


I have to agree with this... Now would be the time if there was ever a time.
 
wjcandee
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:18 pm

STT757 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Those same Port Authority employees don't want to go back to work in the office, either. https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny ... story.html

The PA is a bloated, highly-politicized agency with a decades-long reputation for incompetence. So is the MTA. Cuomo personally drove both to produce and accomplish. N Line 14th Street Tunnel. Midtown Tunnel. Tappan Zee Bridge. 2nd Avenue Subway. LGA Improvments. JFK Improvements. LIRR to Grand Central. All these things were completed or made progress that was atypical for those agencies. His departure likely means that there will be upheaval in both, and that the inmates will retake the asylum to some extent. How much remains to be seen.


Most of those projects were started before he was Governor, Second ave Subway and East Side access in
particular.


Exactly. LONG before he was governor in some cases. But some were going nowhere and he got them done. I live 2 blocks from Second Avenue on the UES, so I certainly know.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:52 pm

STT757 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
leader1 wrote:

Oh please. The project isn’t going away no matter how much you want it to. And based on all your posts, you’re so desperate to see this and any other NY project fail.

Sorry, but there won’t be any N-train extension to LGA to fulfill your fantasies. It’s either this AirTrain or being stuck with the Q70 bus forever.



It is Jealousy. Sounds ridiculous but true. He so wants that PATH extension to EWR. Just a dream and an a.net post away…and it will happen! :)


Check out my past statements in which I actually support the Airtrain to the 7 train from way back in 2003.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219873



I don’t have to go back to 2003 I just have to scroll up on this thread. And it isnt support I read

As someone that has grown up in north eastern queens… The 7 train sucks.

It is slow. It is crowded. It has a ridiculous amount of closely-spaced stops. It is narrow as it is an IRT. The express almost never runs. The miles long trestle is almost always under repair forcing service changes.

The one bright spot about the 7 is the most important: it is reliable. Rain, shine, blizzard or tropical storm, noon or midnight…the trusty 7 shows up and shows up frequently. It is also fairly safe at all hours as it is almost always flooded with riders from the immigrant communities below.

An airport deserves a better link than a shuttle to the 7.

But New York does not. And LaGuardia does not. Both are hard places to work and play. Both are expensive places to work, build and do business. Both make your life harder and more stressful.

The best NY can do is this rail link. It is the path of least resistance that still gets the job done: like the new WTC, like the post office that is now a train station one avenue removed, like the Javits and its leaky roof, like a cross town bus you can walk faster than, like a playground with grass a little too long, like a construction project on an area bridge that has no start date, no end date and wont appreciably improve the user experience but is still necessary.

That is New York with a capital NY.

This project is perfect, and fits the NY to a T

One other possibility also fits…this project not getting done…And nothing happening.

That would also be a Quintessential New York experience
Last edited by jfklganyc on Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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STT757
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:03 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
The sensible project remains subway extension.

Remember, we are talking about a blank check during the Biden presidency. It's 2021, a year of unprecedented spending. There is an enormous infrastructure bill, with near unlimited funding, just happens to be crossing Congress right now.

People say a subway is impossible? It's completely possible. One charismatic leader could easily make it happen. Perhaps AOC is that leader. Getting $5 billion for subway extension would be a five minute conversation between the key people right now.


I have to agree with this... Now would be the time if there was ever a time.


Absolutely, the current fortunes for infrastructure projects is unprecedented. Take what the Port Authority was going to spend from their own funds, PFC's bonds etc on the Airtrain and mix it with an infusion from the infrastructure bill that NYC and New York state are in line to receive. Build a spur of the N/W line at Astoria Blvd. right to the new LaGuardia B terminal.

Heck if you want to keep the N/W going past LGA to Willets Point, it would help with tourism to Citi Field and the US Open.

I'm hoping for a big win for the region from the infrastructure bill, for me a win is:

Gateway tunnels, PABT, new Outerbridge (just use the same design as the new Goethals bridge), PATH extension to EWR, SAS to 125th (it needs to go downtown), N/W to LGA, Staten Island North Shore Railway (Light Rail), New Penn Station (Empire Station is not a bad plan, just need to move MSG),
 
737307
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:34 pm

How about drilling a passenger-only tunnel from LGA to the Astoria-Ditmars N station? No busses, no trains. Just underground moving walkways. You could also built an underground moving walkway from LGA to Mets-Willets 7 station. The operation of these tunnels should be cheap and very quiet/low noise.
An additional option should be the have a speedboat ferry from LGA to the East 34 St. docks. That should be the easiest to implement, but not sure how long such a ride would take.
 
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STT757
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:48 pm

The N/W train can run along Astoria boulevard and the Grand Central Parkway. In some areas in can run at grade, in a trench or small segments of tunnel, not mega expensive tunnels the like that need boring machines but rather tunnels that can be built using cut and cover methods.
 
tphuang
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:46 pm

Take a look at how long it's taken us to build 3 stations on 2nd avenue. Subway extension along N/W train to LGA is a pipe dream.
 
wjcandee
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:21 pm

tphuang wrote:
Take a look at how long it's taken us to build 3 stations on 2nd avenue. Subway extension along N/W train to LGA is a pipe dream.


And in the current environment, like back when there had to be police on every Train to the Plane, travellers with luggage would be nothing but mugging victims and robbery targets on any such subway connection. When I was growing up, the Subway was a place that used to be safe for such things. Coney Island used to be safe. It was sad. And we were told it couldn't be fixed.

Then, we had an all-too-brief renaissance that many younger folks didn't realize was a renaissance.

But once again, people are mugged in Times Square. Most don't realize that there's a reason that the Times Square Marriott was designed to hold Times Square out -- so people would feel safe with the hotel lobby and rooms placed behind a fortress-like moat of floors between the lobby and the street. Decades later, that seemed silly and unwelcoming. No more.

Hundred-year public improvements are being proposed for a city that may or may not be able effectively to use them.
 
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STT757
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:09 pm

 
RR757
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:00 pm

asuflyer wrote:
The N or W trains should be extended from either Astoria Blvd or Ditmars over the Grand Central Parkway to LGA. Cuomo's plans for the Airtrain to the 7 train never made any sense to most NYC residents.


What have the FAA got to do with trains?
 
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STT757
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:14 pm

RR757 wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
The N or W trains should be extended from either Astoria Blvd or Ditmars over the Grand Central Parkway to LGA. Cuomo's plans for the Airtrain to the 7 train never made any sense to most NYC residents.


What have the FAA got to do with trains?


This was discussed several times in the thread, the Port Authority is/was going to tap PFC funds, those fees tagged onto tickets, to fund the construction. PFC's are an FAA program. Back further in the thread you will see the FAA previously had a rule that the funds couldn't be used for things other than airport only projects which is why Airtrains were developed, a rule change in May now allows those funds to go towards a Subway line to the airports.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_facility_charge#:~:text=A%20passenger%20facility%20charge%20(PFC,according%20to%20US%20federal%20law.
 
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N62NA
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:34 pm

wjcandee wrote:
And in the current environment, like back when there had to be police on every Train to the Plane, travellers with luggage would be nothing but mugging victims and robbery targets on any such subway connection. When I was growing up, the Subway was a place that used to be safe for such things. Coney Island used to be safe. It was sad. And we were told it couldn't be fixed.

Then, we had an all-too-brief renaissance that many younger folks didn't realize was a renaissance.

But once again, people are mugged in Times Square. Most don't realize that there's a reason that the Times Square Marriott was designed to hold Times Square out -- so people would feel safe with the hotel lobby and rooms placed behind a fortress-like moat of floors between the lobby and the street. Decades later, that seemed silly and unwelcoming. No more.

Hundred-year public improvements are being proposed for a city that may or may not be able effectively to use them.



There's perhaps a once in a generation opportunity to change how things are done in NYC coming up this election day. Curtis Sliwa.
 
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spinotter
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:15 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
The sensible project remains subway extension.

Remember, we are talking about a blank check during the Biden presidency. It's 2021, a year of unprecedented spending. There is an enormous infrastructure bill, with near unlimited funding, just happens to be crossing Congress right now.

People say a subway is impossible? It's completely possible. One charismatic leader could easily make it happen. Perhaps AOC is that leader. Getting $5 billion for subway extension would be a five minute conversation between the key people right now.


It is possible with the right leadership. Why not give NYC its first direct subway connection to one of its three airports?
 
wjcandee
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:47 am

spinotter wrote:
It is possible with the right leadership. Why not give NYC its first direct subway connection to one of its three airports?


Or just bring back the Carey Bus, and set it up to interline with the city busses and subway using a Metrocard. But that would cost basically-nothing, when we can instead spend billions. And it would require co-operation between the MTA and the Port Authority.
 
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STT757
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:53 am

 
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spinotter
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:46 pm

wjcandee wrote:
spinotter wrote:
It is possible with the right leadership. Why not give NYC its first direct subway connection to one of its three airports?


Or just bring back the Carey Bus, and set it up to interline with the city busses and subway using a Metrocard. But that would cost basically-nothing, when we can instead spend billions. And it would require co-operation between the MTA and the Port Authority.


Busses can not transport anywhere near the number of passengers that subways are capable of moving. Busses are also subject to all the holdups of street and expressway traffic. Almost every world class city has direct rail traffic from airport to city center. Why not NYC?
 
wjcandee
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:11 pm

spinotter wrote:
Busses can not transport anywhere near the number of passengers that subways are capable of moving. Busses are also subject to all the holdups of street and expressway traffic. Almost every world class city has direct rail traffic from airport to city center. Why not NYC?


'Cause it's the US? 'Cause most traffic to LGA isn't coming from "City Center"? Traffic to the NYC airports comes from all over the Tri State area, and all over NYC. Car/Roads is still the most convenient, one-seat ride. Would there really be that many more people who wanted to go, say, to Grand Central via a subway line with its many stops and mixed traffic over the SAFE one-seat, nonstop Carey Bus? If I take the JFK Airtrain to the LIRR station at Jamaica and get on the subway to go to the UES, which I tried once, it's an interminable ride. Oy. If I get on the nonstop LIRR, unless I'm going somewhere near 34th and 8th, it's a hassle on the subway from there to wherever I really want to go. If I really am going to City Center, yeah, the bus can encounter delays on the roads, but it's a one-seat ride to the same place the subway is going to lurch and stop-and-start to. Would the subway really be faster? It isn't from JFK, that's for sure. At the end of the day, aren't these public transit options really used primarily by airport staff to commute?

Much better just to have a friend drop me off at the airport.

And for the kabillion dollars this project is going to cost, how many people could we just buy a ride on Carmel for over the next 20 years?
 
cpl22586
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New York Governor Pulls Plug on LGA airtrain project

Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:15 pm

Gov. Kathy Hochul has told the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to find an alternative to disgraced ex-Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s $2.1 billion “AirTrain” pet project between LaGuardia Airport and eastern Queens.

“I have asked the Port Authority to thoroughly examine alternative mass transit solutions for reducing car traffic and increasing connectivity to LaGuardia Airport,” Hochul said in a statement Monday afternoon — hours before elected officials representing the impacted section of Queens were set to hold a press conference against the boondoggle.


https://nypost.com/2021/10/04/hochul-pu ... -airtrain/
 
tinpusher007
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Re: New York Governor Pulls Plug on LGA airtrain project

Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:39 pm

cpl22586 wrote:
Gov. Kathy Hochul has told the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to find an alternative to disgraced ex-Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s $2.1 billion “AirTrain” pet project between LaGuardia Airport and eastern Queens.

“I have asked the Port Authority to thoroughly examine alternative mass transit solutions for reducing car traffic and increasing connectivity to LaGuardia Airport,” Hochul said in a statement Monday afternoon — hours before elected officials representing the impacted section of Queens were set to hold a press conference against the boondoggle.


https://nypost.com/2021/10/04/hochul-pu ... -airtrain/

Well I guess LGA just wont have an air train then. I dont see how they would build one for less cost going west to link up with the N.
 
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STT757
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:06 pm

The opportunity to pursue a better alternative presented itself in February when the FAA changed its rules regarding how and where PFC's can be applied to public transit. That is when the Port Authority should have conducted a new review including a direct connection of the N/R train via Astoria blvd. and the Grand Central Parkway. Now that there is a new Governor the agency can conduct the new review, let's see what they can come up with.

http://blog.tstc.org/2021/02/24/subway-to-laguardia-made-possible-by-faa-rule-change

https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3v5j3/us-airports-no-longer-have-to-build-their-own-crappy-trains
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:17 pm

Dead!

Enjoy the cab ride.

Never complain about the clogged roads again.

First up will be Thanksgiving weekend Wed prior and Sunday/Monday prior.

That’s when people usually leave their cars and walk.

What a stupid and boneheaded move. A real project literally waiting to break ground…and they did the one thing that you should never do a New York City… listen to an angry mob that wants NOTHING built.

There are no viable alternatives because they all involve years of litigation as they will all effect neighbors. This project affected no one. That is the reason for the route.

There will be no train to LGA and if they need to do a tandem bi-state approval for mega projects, no new train to EWR either.

Sad day for the NY region
 
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STT757
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Re: FAA approves LGA Airtrain

Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:09 pm

N/R train route from LaGuardia via a ROW above and at times alongside in a trench the Grand Central Parkway and connecting with the existing line at Astoria Boulevard.

https://new.mta.info/map/5256

https://www.nytimes.com/1998/04/17/nyregion/giuliani-threatens-to-oppose-kennedy-rail-link.html?

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/26/nyregion/cash-for-forgotten-airport-link-may-help-build-stadium-station.html
 
nycbjr
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Re: Updated: LGA Airtrain halted by Governor

Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:43 pm

I have mixed feelings on this (have since it was announced). She is probably doing the right thing, but I fear we will never have a rail link to LGA and this was the best chance of getting one. Fingers crossed maybe something good will come out of this!
 
GSP psgr
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Re: Updated: LGA Airtrain halted by Governor

Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:11 am

IIRC, you only have to run the N two or three blocks to the north where you hit the NIMBYless safety of the big ConEd facility, and from there you are practically home free. Overcoming two blocks of NIMBY opposition should be possible; not without aggravation, but doable.
 
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alberchico
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Re: Updated: LGA Airtrain halted by Governor

Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:48 am

GSP psgr wrote:
IIRC, you only have to run the N two or three blocks to the north where you hit the NIMBYless safety of the big ConEd facility, and from there you are practically home free. Overcoming two blocks of NIMBY opposition should be possible; not without aggravation, but doable.


But then how would you cross Runway 4 to connect with the terminals without impacting the low flying aircraft on final approach ? A tunnel would be too expensive and disruptive.
 
deltairlines
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Re: Updated: LGA Airtrain halted by Governor

Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:21 am

alberchico wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
IIRC, you only have to run the N two or three blocks to the north where you hit the NIMBYless safety of the big ConEd facility, and from there you are practically home free. Overcoming two blocks of NIMBY opposition should be possible; not without aggravation, but doable.


But then how would you cross Runway 4 to connect with the terminals without impacting the low flying aircraft on final approach ? A tunnel would be too expensive and disruptive.


There looks to be (barely) enough room just south of the Grand Central to fit in a rai ROW there that it would be at grade where the approach to 4 comes in. Might be slim, but doable.
 
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N62NA
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Re: Updated: LGA Airtrain halted by Governor

Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:01 am

alberchico wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
IIRC, you only have to run the N two or three blocks to the north where you hit the NIMBYless safety of the big ConEd facility, and from there you are practically home free. Overcoming two blocks of NIMBY opposition should be possible; not without aggravation, but doable.


But then how would you cross Runway 4 to connect with the terminals without impacting the low flying aircraft on final approach ? A tunnel would be too expensive and disruptive.


I just looked at an aerial map of the area and tried figuring out how and extension from the current terminus of the N train would get to LGA. I get the 2 block extension north to the Con Ed facility, but then how do you head east? Do you snake around to the east and head down 19th Avenue? Then turn south on 81st street to the GCP?
 
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alberchico
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Re: Updated: LGA Airtrain halted by Governor

Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:10 am

deltairlines wrote:
alberchico wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
IIRC, you only have to run the N two or three blocks to the north where you hit the NIMBYless safety of the big ConEd facility, and from there you are practically home free. Overcoming two blocks of NIMBY opposition should be possible; not without aggravation, but doable.


But then how would you cross Runway 4 to connect with the terminals without impacting the low flying aircraft on final approach ? A tunnel would be too expensive and disruptive.


There looks to be (barely) enough room just south of the Grand Central to fit in a rai ROW there that it would be at grade where the approach to 4 comes in. Might be slim, but doable.


The problem is that part of the strip of land directly across from runway 4 is a park that's popular with the neighborhood, so any attempt to lay a hand on that in order to facilitate a right of way would be a non-starter.

I was able to find a map of the original proposal to extend the subway from Astoria that was proposed in the 1990's. It involved running the train farther back along residential areas but ran into fierce opposition from angry Nimbys. After 9/11 the funding evaporated and the project died. I think Cuomo, for all his flaws was right. His proposal was the cheapest and most politically expedient project to get a train into LaGuardia. Now we're back at square one. Building tunnels under the Grand Central to accommodate a train is horrendously expensive and impractical. Running an elevated train over many densely populated residential areas is also a non-starter. His idea was the only one that was viable and kept the Nimbys at arms length.

Image

https://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_inde ... n-transit/
 
GSP psgr
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Re: Updated: LGA Airtrain halted by Governor

Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:18 am

alberchico wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
IIRC, you only have to run the N two or three blocks to the north where you hit the NIMBYless safety of the big ConEd facility, and from there you are practically home free. Overcoming two blocks of NIMBY opposition should be possible; not without aggravation, but doable.


But then how would you cross Runway 4 to connect with the terminals without impacting the low flying aircraft on final approach ? A tunnel would be too expensive and disruptive.


Once you hit ConEd, you can probably build a tunnel using cut and cover all the way to at least the Marine Air Terminal, and that's a helluva lot cheaper than boring a tunnel all the way there. Some things are indeed worth spending the dough on, and I'd say a direct subway link qualifies, as opposed to Cuomo's asinine backwards train to nowhere.
 
cloudboy
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Re: Updated: LGA Airtrain halted by Governor

Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:46 pm

Give up already on LGA. Obviously the locals don't want it. The fed government shouldn't be pouring money into it. Just build up EWR and make JFK more functional. And put the rest into improving the High Speed Rail connections with the city. If the airlines want hubs, there are better cities.
 
travelsonic
Posts: 158
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Re: FAA delays LGA Airtrain approval

Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:13 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
You guys dont understand...but the OP should as he is very familiar with NYC.

This train was the path of least resistance.

The N will never be extended because it would require passing through residential neighborhoods that would tie it up in litigation for years.
.


And not just that, it'd also affect the (often fairly busy) commercial areas like that where the line currently ends at Ditmars Blvd.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Updated: LGA Airtrain halted by Governor

Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:18 pm

The Subway is simply a better solution. There is not a money problem here. This is a praise-worthy move by New Gov. If FAA regs did not previously support LGA Subway extension, it shows how stupid FAA regs previously were. Start at the right answer and work backwards.

Oh… and locals should get to _compete_ for the various route alternatives. Draw 2 good routes and make the neighborhoods compete for the honor. What they can offer would be, for example, a legal defense commitment funded by property owners who stand to gain.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Updated: LGA Airtrain halted by Governor

Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:29 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
The Subway is simply a better solution. There is not a money problem here. This is a praise-worthy move by New Gov. If FAA regs did not previously support LGA Subway extension, it shows how stupid FAA regs previously were. Start at the right answer and work backwards.

Oh… and locals should get to _compete_ for the various route alternatives. Draw 2 good routes and make the neighborhoods compete for the honor. What they can offer would be, for example, a legal defense commitment funded by property owners who stand to gain.



The latest leg of the subway, the 2nd Ave. line, cost $2.7 billion a mile to build. That opened several years ago.

So assuming 3 miles from Ditmars to LGA…let’s round down…$6 billion dollars.

And a lot of lawsuits.


Tell me how you plan to get this approved and paid for?

STT757…please feel free to chime in here too…as you are a big advocate of this plan

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