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kalvado
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:30 pm

musang wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
tonystan wrote:

I think going by the current lack of a door at 2L at all at the moment, the door was very much in the way!!!


With 2L being open during the failure, it would be broken off very easy I suppose. Put the entire weight of the airplane on the door/hinges while being connecting to a jetway or airstairs, well....you dont get a thud...you would get a loud crack, bang or a clang :crackup: :fight:


With generally 90%+ of the mass resting on the main gears in normal ops, the "weight on the door/hinge" is going to be minimal, even if they'd loaded the forward hold first.

10% of 787 weight (100+ tonnes) is about 10 tonnes. With the door being closer to mains, leverage increases that by a factor of, lets say 2. You may get another factor of 2-3 one way or the other, but it is a few tonnes in any case.
I wouldn't call a few tonnes "minimal load" for hinges normally handling maybe 100-200 kg,
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:38 pm

Also even under normal conditions, ground staff are always instructed to keep a certain clearance on cabin doors when connecting airstairs and jetways. I believe it is not even allowed to put any kind of weight on cabin doors under any condition.
 
LAXLHR
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:11 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
vaughanparry wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57524179

"BA said it was a freight aircraft..."

Either i) that is what BA actually said meaning the airline's in more trouble than we thought or ii) they correctly said it was a passenger aircraft operating a mainly freight-only flight meaning the BBC's reporting of aviation matters is even worse than we thought...


Very common these days to find passenger planes hauling medical supplies. Not unique to BA.


Yes, but not just medical supplies. Freight of all kinds ;-)
 
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zeke
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:16 pm

kalvado wrote:
10% of 787 weight (100+ tonnes) is about 10 tonnes. With the door being closer to mains, leverage increases that by a factor of, lets say 2. You may get another factor of 2-3 one way or the other, but it is a few tonnes in any case.
I wouldn't call a few tonnes "minimal load" for hinges normally handling maybe 100-200 kg,


According to the 787 acaps the loads on the nose gear can get as high as around 20,000 kg.
 
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zeke
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:54 pm

There was an AD issued last year aimed at oreveung this following an Ethiopian event in 2016, aparentky there is two holes next to each other that can accept the pin, the simple solution is to put a plug in the incorrect hole so there is only one correct place to place the pin.

Very simple elegant solution.

https://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/2019-23- ... 19-23-07_1
 
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ClipperMonsoon
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:35 pm

As Zeke pointed out a very simple solution, too bad it had to come to this because no matter how many times you repeat something, in aviation, you cannot get lax on your job.
 
wjcandee
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:27 pm

trex8 wrote:
so let me get this right
there are two holes you can stick a pin in, presumably same pin
shouldn't each hole and pin be quite different sized, shaped, positioned to prevent things like this??


They're different-sized. You would have to be untrained/extremely-careless to stick it in the wrong hole. It's also obvious to anybody with a brain which one is the pivot and which one would prevent a pivot from occurring. However, sloppy that when doing something like testing the gear doors, a mech doesn't first go down and confirm it's in the right hole, since it's the only thing gonna keep this from happening.
 
Leej
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:02 pm

$1820 plus fitting for a plug.....what's it made of?
 
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Polot
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:26 pm

Leej wrote:
$1820 plus fitting for a plug.....what's it made of?

Welcome to the world of aviation. That’s actually extremely cheap as far as parts go.
 
kalvado
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:39 pm

wjcandee wrote:
trex8 wrote:
so let me get this right
there are two holes you can stick a pin in, presumably same pin
shouldn't each hole and pin be quite different sized, shaped, positioned to prevent things like this??


They're different-sized. You would have to be untrained/extremely-careless to stick it in the wrong hole. It's also obvious to anybody with a brain which one is the pivot and which one would prevent a pivot from occurring. However, sloppy that when doing something like testing the gear doors, a mech doesn't first go down and confirm it's in the right hole, since it's the only thing gonna keep this from happening.

If that is the best safety measure available, then 787s would be normally parked nose down.
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1959
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:46 pm

It's a pity this guy didn't turn up just before it happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH56UOjDQ4A
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:07 pm

According to the AAIB, the collapse apparently happened while the aircraft was being loaded with cargo.
Just a wild guess: Is it possible that the cargo loading could have contributed to the collapse??

https://twitter.com/Train_PlaneHub/stat ... 25729?s=20
 
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zeke
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:40 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
According to the AAIB, the collapse apparently happened while the aircraft was being loaded with cargo.
Just a wild guess: Is it possible that the cargo loading could have contributed to the collapse??

https://twitter.com/Train_PlaneHub/stat ... 25729?s=20


Doubt it, I suspect it was routine fault clearing by maintenance while the aircraft was being prepared for the next departure.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:51 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
According to the AAIB, the collapse apparently happened while the aircraft was being loaded with cargo.
Just a wild guess: Is it possible that the cargo loading could have contributed to the collapse??

https://twitter.com/Train_PlaneHub/stat ... 25729?s=20

Correct,
Happened while being loaded, not because it was being loaded.
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:43 am

https://www.yahoo.com/news/british-airw ... 51834.html


The findings of the regulators. The mechanic was too short the lock the landing pin. Yes, you heard that right. No fault of Boeing or the aircraft. 100% human error,.

Key quote:


[*][*]A British Airways jet collapsed on its nose at Heathrow Airport after a mechanic was too short to lock its landing gear into place, a report has revealed. The lead mechanic was tasked with securing the nose landing gear of the Boeing 787-8 in the down position before a planned flight to Germany last month. But according to the Air Accidents Investigation Branch report, he was “not tall enough” to reach a pin needed to lock landing gear, so asked a taller colleague to perform the task. However, the second mechanic put the pin in the wrong recess.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:50 am

So something that could have been avoided by making sure shorter employees with a 50 quid step ladder?

I'd love to know if this is something that had been brought up before by someone. Or is it even considered by engineers when designing such things.
 
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Rookie87
Posts: 321
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:53 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/british-airways-jet-collapsed-nose-152651834.html


The findings of the regulators. The mechanic was too short the lock the landing pin. Yes, you heard that right. No fault of Boeing or the aircraft. 100% human error,.

Key quote:


[*][*]A British Airways jet collapsed on its nose at Heathrow Airport after a mechanic was too short to lock its landing gear into place, a report has revealed. The lead mechanic was tasked with securing the nose landing gear of the Boeing 787-8 in the down position before a planned flight to Germany last month. But according to the Air Accidents Investigation Branch report, he was “not tall enough” to reach a pin needed to lock landing gear, so asked a taller colleague to perform the task. However, the second mechanic put the pin in the wrong recess.



This is hilarious
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:56 am

Rookie87 wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/british-airways-jet-collapsed-nose-152651834.html


The findings of the regulators. The mechanic was too short the lock the landing pin. Yes, you heard that right. No fault of Boeing or the aircraft. 100% human error,.

Key quote:


[*][*]A British Airways jet collapsed on its nose at Heathrow Airport after a mechanic was too short to lock its landing gear into place, a report has revealed. The lead mechanic was tasked with securing the nose landing gear of the Boeing 787-8 in the down position before a planned flight to Germany last month. But according to the Air Accidents Investigation Branch report, he was “not tall enough” to reach a pin needed to lock landing gear, so asked a taller colleague to perform the task. However, the second mechanic put the pin in the wrong recess.



This is hilarious



Yep. All the noise about Boeing the bad 787 and it boils down to a mechanic who is too short to lock the landing gear. Amazing.
 
FlyHPN
Posts: 146
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:07 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
Rookie87 wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/british-airways-jet-collapsed-nose-152651834.html


The findings of the regulators. The mechanic was too short the lock the landing pin. Yes, you heard that right. No fault of Boeing or the aircraft. 100% human error,.

Key quote:


[*][*]A British Airways jet collapsed on its nose at Heathrow Airport after a mechanic was too short to lock its landing gear into place, a report has revealed. The lead mechanic was tasked with securing the nose landing gear of the Boeing 787-8 in the down position before a planned flight to Germany last month. But according to the Air Accidents Investigation Branch report, he was “not tall enough” to reach a pin needed to lock landing gear, so asked a taller colleague to perform the task. However, the second mechanic put the pin in the wrong recess.



This is hilarious



Yep. All the noise about Boeing the bad 787 and it boils down to a mechanic who is too short to lock the landing gear. Amazing.


End of the day, it was still a matter of a mechanic putting the pin in the wrong hole. If the wrong hole was plugged, this wouldn’t have been a problem.
 
FlyHPN
Posts: 146
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:19 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
Rookie87 wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/british-airways-jet-collapsed-nose-152651834.html


The findings of the regulators. The mechanic was too short the lock the landing pin. Yes, you heard that right. No fault of Boeing or the aircraft. 100% human error,.

Key quote:


[*][*]A British Airways jet collapsed on its nose at Heathrow Airport after a mechanic was too short to lock its landing gear into place, a report has revealed. The lead mechanic was tasked with securing the nose landing gear of the Boeing 787-8 in the down position before a planned flight to Germany last month. But according to the Air Accidents Investigation Branch report, he was “not tall enough” to reach a pin needed to lock landing gear, so asked a taller colleague to perform the task. However, the second mechanic put the pin in the wrong recess.



This is hilarious



Yep. All the noise about Boeing the bad 787 and it boils down to a mechanic who is too short to lock the landing gear. Amazing.


End of the day, it was still a matter of a mechanic putting the pin in the wrong hole. If the wrong hole was plugged, this wouldn’t have been a problem.
 
travaz
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:33 am

I bet he can reach it after the test.
 
JohanTally
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:10 am

FlyHPN wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
Rookie87 wrote:


This is hilarious



Yep. All the noise about Boeing the bad 787 and it boils down to a mechanic who is too short to lock the landing gear. Amazing.


End of the day, it was still a matter of a mechanic putting the pin in the wrong hole. If the wrong hole was plugged, this wouldn’t have been a problem.

I suspect that the wrong hole also serves a purpose which is why it's there in the first place.
 
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Moose135
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:00 am

FlyHPN wrote:
End of the day, it was still a matter of a mechanic putting the pin in the wrong hole. If the wrong hole was plugged, this wouldn’t have been a problem.

End of the day, it was still a matter of a mechanic putting the pin in the wrong hole. If the mechanic knew what he was doing, this wouldn't have been a problem.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:01 am

Was the mechanic too short to see the pin in the wrong hole? The excuse doesn't really fly.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:18 am

So then, how high up is the pin?

Was this a little-person (I'm not sure what the most socially-acceptable term nowadays is, but fairly certain that the "m"-word is now considered pejorative) or is it something only someone atypically tall would be able to reach without mechanical assistance? I'm guessing the former, but the article doesn't really say.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:24 am

Both the holes are next to each other.
Ground support equipment is readily available on stand .
Unfortunately , just a human error accident.
Just lucky the person injured only had minor injuries.
Most things are repairable/ insured.
It’s a lot harder to repair people.
 
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zeke
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:24 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/british-airways-jet-collapsed-nose-152651834.html


The findings of the regulators. The mechanic was too short the lock the landing pin. Yes, you heard that right. No fault of Boeing or the aircraft. 100% human error,.

Key quote:


[*][*]A British Airways jet collapsed on its nose at Heathrow Airport after a mechanic was too short to lock its landing gear into place, a report has revealed. The lead mechanic was tasked with securing the nose landing gear of the Boeing 787-8 in the down position before a planned flight to Germany last month. But according to the Air Accidents Investigation Branch report, he was “not tall enough” to reach a pin needed to lock landing gear, so asked a taller colleague to perform the task. However, the second mechanic put the pin in the wrong recess.


This is not true, both FAA/EASA issued an AD last year for the incorrect hole to be plugged following the same issue causing an Ethiopian 787 nose wheel to collapse, a copy of the AD is posted reply 55.

If the AD had been carried out by BA, the mechanics stature would be irrelevant, only one hold would have been open. The simple action required under the AD is to plug the incorrect hole.

Also many tasks are not performed directly by the mechanic in charge, they are performed "under supervision", even if the mechanic could not physically reach it, he would have been able to see it inserted in the incorrect location if they properly supervised the task.
 
Heinkel
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:28 am

Having two holes side by side, one right and one wrong, and the bolt fits both, is just a stupid design.

It cries for human errors. Such an important device must be designed fool-proof.

What is the reason for the second "wrong" hole? If it can be plugged without problems for daily operation, is it only used for repairs, production or heavy maintenance?

In each case, the unused "wrong" hole should be plugged or covered.
 
Ryga
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:34 am

This has cheered me up no end :D
 
Fiend
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:53 am

FlyHPN wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
Rookie87 wrote:


This is hilarious



Yep. All the noise about Boeing the bad 787 and it boils down to a mechanic who is too short to lock the landing gear. Amazing.


End of the day, it was still a matter of a mechanic putting the pin in the wrong hole. If the wrong hole was plugged, this wouldn’t have been a problem.


The "Swiss Cheese "analogy applies to this incident....

The poor design is down to Boeing..... 2 holes near to each other but only one of them performed the locking function when locking pin inserted..

The errors in the maintenance task are down to the airline

Mechanic too short to insert the pin in the correct hole.... No steps available in the area around the NLG, so the experienced mechanic unable to carry out the task and asks a taller colleague to do the task Was it the first time the taller mechanic had done this operation. If it was, then why wasn't a peer check carried out after the pin was inserted to ensure the pin was inserted in the correct hole?

Failure to check all preconditions prior to doing the maintenance task..... did they check the locking pin was inserted in the correct hole? Obviously not.

Had the mechanics been briefed about the issue of possible nose wheel collapses???

A delay in implementing an Airworthiness Directive after a previous incident on another airline. They were given 36 months to fit an insert in the other hole.
 
harleydriver
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:09 am

This reminds me of the person who wants to order food. Sign outside of fast food Mexican restaurant "Closed due to staff shortage". Customer: "Hire taller staff, I want a taco!"
 
787SIN
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:39 am

Interesting that while the AD was only effective in January 2020 the Boeing Requirements Bulletin was issued in March 2019 with a 36 month compliance period from then so over two years since that was issued meaning there was less than a year left for the AD when the incident happened. Strange something relatively simple has been left for so long to be complied with, unless it is for something outside of BAs control such as a supply issue with the kit perhaps.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:50 pm

For reference: AAIB released a full report about the incident two days ago with a sequence of events

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... G-ZBJB.pdf
 
Vicenza
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:18 pm

787SIN wrote:
Interesting that while the AD was only effective in January 2020 the Boeing Requirements Bulletin was issued in March 2019 with a 36 month compliance period from then so over two years since that was issued meaning there was less than a year left for the AD when the incident happened. Strange something relatively simple has been left for so long to be complied with, unless it is for something outside of BAs control such as a supply issue with the kit perhaps.


Must be a hell of a supply 'issue' to last two years!! More likely, to save money BA just hadn't bothered to implement the required Directive
 
Vicenza
Posts: 375
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:24 pm

ElroyJetson wrote:
Rookie87 wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/british-airways-jet-collapsed-nose-152651834.html


The findings of the regulators. The mechanic was too short the lock the landing pin. Yes, you heard that right. No fault of Boeing or the aircraft. 100% human error,.

Key quote:


[*][*]A British Airways jet collapsed on its nose at Heathrow Airport after a mechanic was too short to lock its landing gear into place, a report has revealed. The lead mechanic was tasked with securing the nose landing gear of the Boeing 787-8 in the down position before a planned flight to Germany last month. But according to the Air Accidents Investigation Branch report, he was “not tall enough” to reach a pin needed to lock landing gear, so asked a taller colleague to perform the task. However, the second mechanic put the pin in the wrong recess.



This is hilarious



Yep. All the noise about Boeing the bad 787 and it boils down to a mechanic who is too short to lock the landing gear. Amazing.


In your rush to 'defend' Boeing and the aircraft it's pretty sad, and equally 'amazing' that you can't even get things correct. Because of a design flaw by Boeing, and AD was issued in 2021.....and BA have yet to bother to carry it out. So yeah, quite amazing indeed how selective you choose to be!
 
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Revelation
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:06 pm

zeke wrote:
This is not true, both FAA/EASA issued an AD last year for the incorrect hole to be plugged following the same issue causing an Ethiopian 787 nose wheel to collapse, a copy of the AD is posted reply 55.

If the AD had been carried out by BA, the mechanics stature would be irrelevant, only one hold would have been open. The simple action required under the AD is to plug the incorrect hole.

Also many tasks are not performed directly by the mechanic in charge, they are performed "under supervision", even if the mechanic could not physically reach it, he would have been able to see it inserted in the incorrect location if they properly supervised the task.

The AAIB report ( https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib-sp ... 7-8-g-zbjb ) points out there was a Lead Engineer and two mechanics (Mech 1, the shorter one and Mech 2, the taller one) involved. Mech 1 pointed to where the NLG pin was supposed to go, Mech 2 installed it. Presumably if he could see the location well enough to point, he could have also visually confirmed Mech 2 put the pin into the right hole. By the time they did the pins for the MLG they had portable steps and Mech 1 was doing the installation with Mech 2 observing.

The report doesn't indicate if the crew consulted any documentation on exactly where the pin was supposed to go or if they went by memory or intuition.

Seems everyone involved could have done a better job. Inserting gear pins is common enough during maintenance, it should have been made more fool proof right from the start. The regulators saw that it happened in the field and issued an AD but with three years to comply. The operator just went with that recommendation despite presumably considering the costly Ethiopian incident and its aftermath. Insurers perhaps should have been involved too, they are the ones footing the bill. The crew doing the work must have had some understanding of the peril of getting it wrong yet they did end up getting it wrong.
 
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zeke
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:27 pm

Vicenza wrote:
In your rush to 'defend' Boeing and the aircraft it's pretty sad, and equally 'amazing' that you can't even get things correct. Because of a design flaw by Boeing, and AD was issued in 2021.....and BA have yet to bother to carry it out. So yeah, quite amazing indeed how selective you choose to be!


The AD was published almost 2 years ago, and became effective January 16, 2020.

Revelation wrote:
The AAIB report ( https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib-sp ... 7-8-g-zbjb ) points out there was a Lead Engineer and two mechanics (Mech 1, the shorter one and Mech 2, the taller one) involved. Mech 1 pointed to where the NLG pin was supposed to go, Mech 2 installed it. Presumably if he could see the location well enough to point, he could have also visually confirmed Mech 2 put the pin into the right hole. By the time they did the pins for the MLG they had portable steps and Mech 1 was doing the installation with Mech 2 observing.


That is exactly what I thought would happen, the person with the data (being the laptop with the maintenance procedure) didn't actually supervise the people installing the pins.

Revelation wrote:
Inserting gear pins is common enough during maintenance, it should have been made more fool proof right from the start. The regulators saw that it happened in the field and issued an AD but with three years to comply. The operator just went with that recommendation despite presumably considering the costly Ethiopian incident and its aftermath.


Hate to say it, this is not the first type something like this has happened on. The previous fix on another type was to plug the hole with sealant, however the FAA was not happy with that on the 787 they wanted a more purpose built plug (which takes time and money). United just went around and filled all of their incorrect holes with sealant (which can be done in a day for little cost) until the special plugs became available.
 
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Revelation
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:33 pm

zeke wrote:
Hate to say it, this is not the first type something like this has happened on. The previous fix on another type was to plug the hole with sealant, however the FAA was not happy with that on the 787 they wanted a more purpose built plug (which takes time and money). United just went around and filled all of their incorrect holes with sealant (which can be done in a day for little cost) until the special plugs became available.

Thanks for the interesting info. I'm glad to read that at least one operator was proactive and came up with a sensible workaround.
 
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armagnac2010
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:36 pm

And another golden award for BA LHR maintenance staff.

Remember the A319 which lost its fan cowl on both engines. The mechanics started oil refill, realised they needed more oil, drove to the shop to get it. They came back and completed to refill on the adjacent aircraft, without of course closing the fan cowl on the initial aircraft. The log books could have helped, but were held centrally by some managers, for efficiency purposes.

Might have inspires the late Benny Hill.
 
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armagnac2010
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:37 pm

I got it - a short one, a tall one, both idiots - Laurel & Hardy !
 
WayexTDI
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:23 pm

Can someone chime in and tell us how high that hole is? The fast majority of the population fall into a very limited height range; so, that a mechanic could not reach out "because he was too short" either say that he was legally a dwarf or that the pin hole is inaccessible for 99.99999999% of the population...
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 489
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:50 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Can someone chime in and tell us how high that hole is? The fast majority of the population fall into a very limited height range; so, that a mechanic could not reach out "because he was too short" either say that he was legally a dwarf or that the pin hole is inaccessible for 99.99999999% of the population...


For scale comparison reference: Here is a video showing an apron worker next to an 787 nose gear. https://youtu.be/7t8tjXWUzoo?t=210

The alleged pinhole is not actually seen here, but located inside the nose landing gear bay above his head. It must be at least 2,0 meters above ground
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2402
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:23 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Can someone chime in and tell us how high that hole is? The fast majority of the population fall into a very limited height range; so, that a mechanic could not reach out "because he was too short" either say that he was legally a dwarf or that the pin hole is inaccessible for 99.99999999% of the population...


For scale comparison reference: Here is a video showing an apron worker next to an 787 nose gear. https://youtu.be/7t8tjXWUzoo?t=210

The alleged pinhole is not actually seen here, but located inside the nose landing gear bay above his head. It must be at least 2,0 meters above ground

Thanks for the information.
Seems like a step ladder should be mandated for this operation...
 
User avatar
spinotter
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:03 pm

zeke wrote:
There was an AD issued last year aimed at oreveung this following an Ethiopian event in 2016, aparentky there is two holes next to each other that can accept the pin, the simple solution is to put a plug in the incorrect hole so there is only one correct place to place the pin.

Very simple elegant solution.

https://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/2019-23- ... 19-23-07_1


An even more elegant solution - construct each of the two or more holes so that only the part meant to fill that hole fits. There could never be an error in that universe of holes.
 
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dennypayne
Posts: 371
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:38 am

Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:42 am

spinotter wrote:
zeke wrote:
There was an AD issued last year aimed at oreveung this following an Ethiopian event in 2016, aparentky there is two holes next to each other that can accept the pin, the simple solution is to put a plug in the incorrect hole so there is only one correct place to place the pin.

Very simple elegant solution.

https://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/2019-23- ... 19-23-07_1


An even more elegant solution - construct each of the two or more holes so that only the part meant to fill that hole fits. There could never be an error in that universe of holes.


Yes - the AD doesn't seem to address why there is an 'incorrect' hole there in the first place. That's what I continue to be curious about.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
cskok8
Posts: 117
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:37 am

Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:43 am

Surely gravity is at fault here. Without gravity the nose would not have dropped
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16323
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:55 am

dennypayne wrote:

Yes - the AD doesn't seem to address why there is an 'incorrect' hole there in the first place. That's what I continue to be curious about.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


I would suggest just to reduce the weight of the part
 
r6russian
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:12 am

Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:04 am

wonder what ass clown, skate by on a D-, CAD designer put a critical hole next to a useless hole and didnt stop to think for a second that some minimum wage ramp rat will pin the wrong hole. and what ass clown supervisor checked and approved the design
 
kalvado
Posts: 3230
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:15 am

r6russian wrote:
wonder what ass clown, skate by on a D-, CAD designer put a critical hole next to a useless hole and didnt stop to think for a second that some minimum wage ramp rat will pin the wrong hole. and what ass clown supervisor checked and approved the design


Second one seems to be a hollow pivot axis, connecting gear components. I can imagine that axis being designed for weight and strength, without realizing there is a second, almost useless hole for the pin.
 
User avatar
PA727
Posts: 214
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:18 am

spinotter wrote:
zeke wrote:
There was an AD issued last year aimed at oreveung this following an Ethiopian event in 2016, aparentky there is two holes next to each other that can accept the pin, the simple solution is to put a plug in the incorrect hole so there is only one correct place to place the pin.

Very simple elegant solution.

https://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/2019-23- ... 19-23-07_1


An even more elegant solution - construct each of the two or more holes so that only the part meant to fill that hole fits. There could never be an error in that universe of holes.


You're right! I can't think of anything else on this planet that has two holes, in close proximity, with very different purposes. Oh, wait.....

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