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CarbonFibre
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BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:35 am

 
armadillomaster
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:47 am

No one else has said it yet...

It'll buff out
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:23 am

This Dreamliner just fell asleep, folks! She's worked so hard.
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KingOrGod
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:31 am

But is it a write-off? :duck:
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:41 am

Was it made in CHS?? Just kidding……
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chonetsao
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:45 am

Does B788 need a landing gear downlock pin? Could this (or rather lack of the pins) is the reason for the collapse?
 
B787register
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:21 am

I would be more worried about damage to the wheel bay and the door the airstairs where attached to
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vhtje
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:45 am

chonetsao wrote:
Does B788 need a landing gear downlock pin? Could this (or rather lack of the pins) is the reason for the collapse?


I understand the pin was put into the wrong hole, which caused the collapse. I will post a photo if I can (it is not my photo and I need to get permission)
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
a320fan
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:46 am

That’s going to be expensive
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readytotaxi
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:17 pm

:lol: Didn't think tipping was allowed on BA
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Flaps
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:47 pm

Couldn't happen to a nicer plane. "Bravo" is far and away my least favorite member of the BA 788 fleet. Might just be my luck but I've run into more issues with that airframe than all the others combined. When I saw the headline my first thought was "I'll bet its Bravo."
 
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william
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:55 pm

Someone better call State Farm.
 
SRQLOT
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:57 pm

That door in the staircase does look bent up too.
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:16 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
:lol: Didn't think tipping was allowed on BA

Pretty sure that was just a trip
 
vaughanparry
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:38 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57524179

"BA said it was a freight aircraft..."

Either i) that is what BA actually said meaning the airline's in more trouble than we thought or ii) they correctly said it was a passenger aircraft operating a mainly freight-only flight meaning the BBC's reporting of aviation matters is even worse than we thought...
 
Sooner787
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:47 pm

Well, Boeing's AOG crew gets a nice trip to London in the next day or so :)
 
audidudi
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:42 pm

Apparently there were two Pilots, one ADM and two Engineers on board at the time trying to clear a status message doing a solenoid gear up test, and put the nosegear pin in the wrong hole! Some damage done to other areas including the engines!
Last edited by audidudi on Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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ER757
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:15 pm

armadillomaster wrote:
No one else has said it yet...

It'll buff out

You forgot "will it be a write off?" :smile:
 
concordeforever
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:49 pm

[b][/b]
Sooner787 wrote:
Well, Boeing's AOG crew gets a nice trip to London in the next day or so :)


Just wondering if the Boeing staff from the hangar at Gatwick will not come to look at this first seeing as they do 787 work there and are just down the road.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:50 pm

vaughanparry wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57524179

"BA said it was a freight aircraft..."

Either i) that is what BA actually said meaning the airline's in more trouble than we thought or ii) they correctly said it was a passenger aircraft operating a mainly freight-only flight meaning the BBC's reporting of aviation matters is even worse than we thought...


Very common these days to find passenger planes hauling medical supplies. Not unique to BA.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:56 pm

Revelation wrote:
Feels like this is an unfortunate one-off mistake during maintenance resulting in a small problem becoming a large problem, rather than some mass indictment of the manufacturer.


Likely not an indictment of Boeing or the 787, but not a one off either...
Nose gear collapses have happened a couple of times before on the type.

I wonder if the way the gear pin bore is designed on the nose gear tends to lead to confusion as to how to install it properly.
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zeke
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:12 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
Well, Boeing's AOG crew gets a nice trip to London in the next day or so :)


I doubt they would be required, a crane or airbags should be able to lift the aircraft back up, extend the nose gear again and then take it to the hanger.

Maybe a new L2 cabin door, new forward cargo door, nose gear doors, engine inlets. Be fairly simple take for BA to do in house.

I could just image the pilots faces and the engineer looking at each other in disbelief as the solenoid test starts moving the nose gear.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
ba9216c
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:29 pm

There is an issue with the nose gear. Two bores of similar diameters are in close proximity. Ones for the downlock stopping inadvertent retraction, one bore is a pivot point.

There is a proposed fix but don't know if there's an SB yet or if anything has been applied.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... -airplanes

Unfortunately its a simple mistake and always something to double check before any functions.
 
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Revelation
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:30 pm

Francoflier wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Feels like this is an unfortunate one-off mistake during maintenance resulting in a small problem becoming a large problem, rather than some mass indictment of the manufacturer.

Likely not an indictment of Boeing or the 787, but not a one off either...
Nose gear collapses have happened a couple of times before on the type.

I wonder if the way the gear pin bore is designed on the nose gear tends to lead to confusion as to how to install it properly.

And they've happened on other types under similar circumstances too.

Feels like people are going out of their way to cast some shade.

ba9216c wrote:
Unfortunately its a simple mistake and always something to double check before any functions.

Another lesson from the school of hard knocks.
Last edited by Revelation on Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nnaeto87
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:37 pm

zeke wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
Well, Boeing's AOG crew gets a nice trip to London in the next day or so :)


I doubt they would be required, a crane or airbags should be able to lift the aircraft back up, extend the nose gear again and then take it to the hanger.

Maybe a new L2 cabin door, new forward cargo door, nose gear doors, engine inlets. Be fairly simple take for BA to do in house.

I could just image the pilots faces and the engineer looking at each other in disbelief as the solenoid test starts moving the nose gear.

https://twitter.com/MZulqarnainBut1/sta ... 10089?s=20
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LAX772LR
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:46 pm

B787register wrote:
I would be more worried about damage to the wheel bay and the door the airstairs where attached to

I'd farrrrrr more worried about the engines hitting the ground, and the possibility of the pylon exerting atypical force on its attachment points to the wing....
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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spinotter
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:24 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
I'm wonderng how a badly fitted carpet leads to a nosewheel collapse. Perhaps somebody could construct a plausible theory ? I'm sure somebody on a.net is up to the task.... :-)


Carelessness and bad workmanship in two different domains? Very plausible.
 
ikramerica
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:33 pm

ba9216c wrote:
There is an issue with the nose gear. Two bores of similar diameters are in close proximity. Ones for the downlock stopping inadvertent retraction, one bore is a pivot point.

There is a proposed fix but don't know if there's an SB yet or if anything has been applied.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... -airplanes

Unfortunately its a simple mistake and always something to double check before any functions.

Maybe they should be clearly color coded?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
RR757
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:04 pm

My 787 Engineer friend said a colleague did this too, but without a collapse. They were just testing the gear doors. He’s says it’s an easy human factor mistake.
 
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ClipperMonsoon
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:21 pm

RR757 wrote:
My 787 Engineer friend said a colleague did this too, but without a collapse. They were just testing the gear doors. He’s says it’s an easy human factor mistake.

Don't start spreading the truth now, it is human error, despite some others wanting to spread their sourness, personally had an incident where i was D/H at the time, where the ground crew and flight crew both missed removing the gear pin, hence had to make an early return, but wasn't enough to bash the aircraft I was one though, sheesh
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trex8
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:54 pm

so let me get this right
there are two holes you can stick a pin in, presumably same pin
shouldn't each hole and pin be quite different sized, shaped, positioned to prevent things like this??
 
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zeke
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:59 am

trex8 wrote:
so let me get this right
there are two holes you can stick a pin in, presumably same pin
shouldn't each hole and pin be quite different sized, shaped, positioned to prevent things like this??


Or a spring cover that needs to be moved away to access the correct hole. The other hole is probably the nose wheel steering bypass.

We have seen this before on this thread viewtopic.php?t=1388557
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Weatherwatcher1
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:26 am

ClipperMonsoon wrote:
RR757 wrote:
My 787 Engineer friend said a colleague did this too, but without a collapse. They were just testing the gear doors. He’s says it’s an easy human factor mistake.

Don't start spreading the truth now, it is human error, despite some others wanting to spread their sourness, personally had an incident where i was D/H at the time, where the ground crew and flight crew both missed removing the gear pin, hence had to make an early return, but wasn't enough to bash the aircraft I was one though, sheesh


Yes this does happen from time to time. Singapore Airlines did something similar to an A330

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ ... cts-during

Image

The 787 has a maintenance laptop and a very easy to use maintenance page in the flight deck that has step by step instructions. I’d say excuses for accidentally forgetting a gear pin aren’t as easy as they used to be since the mechanics would have had the electronic manual with them in the flight deck. It’s not like the old days when you were running back to an office to print out a fault isolation manual fault tree.
 
mysterzip
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:24 am

You know, for the past few years I kept wanting to say this and I never had any proof till now:


Russians did it.
 
Spetsnaz55
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:37 am

Later build 787 s are capped on the wrong pin hole. This early build did not have that cap
 
GDB
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:51 am

armadillomaster wrote:
No one else has said it yet...

It'll buff out


'Reckon it'll pass the M.E.L.?
 
OMAAbound
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:19 am

All the engineers be like

"Think we got away with it, wasn't all over twitter, a-net, news channels. We're safe lads!"
 
Chemist
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:10 am

It'll take some speed tape.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:43 am

So ,when this happens is it a sudden and rapid collapse to the ground, or does the aircraft gently descend, assuring minimal damage to other areas like engines and nacelles ?
 
SwissCanuck
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:27 am

My first flight on a 787 was on that bird! WTP wasn't bad. But she was only a couple months old if that. Took C back in CW. Maybe take advantage of the downtime to clean up this early frame. I assume (with little confidence) that due to the carbon fuse, there's no risk of things being bent - either good or cracked?
 
SwissCanuck
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:29 am

JannEejit wrote:
So ,when this happens is it a sudden and rapid collapse to the ground, or does the aircraft gently descend, assuring minimal damage to other areas like engines and nacelles ?


I'm assuming there's a "thud" moment when the door/jetway can't take the weight anymore and gives way. If the door was closed I'd be a more gentle trip to the ground.
 
tonystan
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:41 pm

SwissCanuck wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
So ,when this happens is it a sudden and rapid collapse to the ground, or does the aircraft gently descend, assuring minimal damage to other areas like engines and nacelles ?


I'm assuming there's a "thud" moment when the door/jetway can't take the weight anymore and gives way. If the door was closed I'd be a more gentle trip to the ground.


I think going by the current lack of a door at 2L at all at the moment, the door was very much in the way!!!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
ba9216c
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:49 pm

tonystan wrote:
SwissCanuck wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
So ,when this happens is it a sudden and rapid collapse to the ground, or does the aircraft gently descend, assuring minimal damage to other areas like engines and nacelles ?


I'm assuming there's a "thud" moment when the door/jetway can't take the weight anymore and gives way. If the door was closed I'd be a more gentle trip to the ground.


I think going by the current lack of a door at 2L at all at the moment, the door was very much in the way!!!


I'm probably going to say it was driven to the ground pretty fast. It was likely they were doing an operational check with hydraulics on. If so the gear would be trying to retract. With no brakes on the nose gear, once the over centre lock on the downlock broke the aircraft would be hydraulically driven to the ground (hydraulic ram would be trying to retract with 5000psi).

A bit like the Singapore Airlines, there's a video on the net of it happening.

Without hydraulics the downlock is held over centre with springs so unlikely to just "break" by itself.

It could potentially break under towing loads but the aircraft didn't have a tug connected so we know it didn't happen during towing.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:08 pm

tonystan wrote:
SwissCanuck wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
So ,when this happens is it a sudden and rapid collapse to the ground, or does the aircraft gently descend, assuring minimal damage to other areas like engines and nacelles ?


I'm assuming there's a "thud" moment when the door/jetway can't take the weight anymore and gives way. If the door was closed I'd be a more gentle trip to the ground.


I think going by the current lack of a door at 2L at all at the moment, the door was very much in the way!!!


With 2L being open during the failure, it would be broken off very easy I suppose. Put the entire weight of the airplane on the door/hinges while being connecting to a jetway or airstairs, well....you dont get a thud...you would get a loud crack, bang or a clang :crackup: :fight:
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:17 pm

While it looks obvious in the photo, it’s been done on other types before and probably will happen again.
 
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Revelation
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:25 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
While it looks obvious in the photo, it’s been done on other types before and probably will happen again.

"Obvious" is the opposite of "confusing".
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by738
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:49 pm

my odds are still on a *relatively* easy and quick repair and back in service within the month.
 
nikeherc
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:37 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
tonystan wrote:
SwissCanuck wrote:

I'm assuming there's a "thud" moment when the door/jetway can't take the weight anymore and gives way. If the door was closed I'd be a more gentle trip to the ground.


I think going by the current lack of a door at 2L at all at the moment, the door was very much in the way!!!


With 2L being open during the failure, it would be broken off very easy I suppose. Put the entire weight of the airplane on the door/hinges while being connecting to a jetway or airstairs, well....you dont get a thud...you would get a loud crack, bang or a clang :crackup: :fight:


Many years ago, I was on a United stretch 8 when they started pushing it back with the jetway in place and the door open. It almost ripped the door off of the plane. The only indication in the cabin was a momentary shutdown of the lights and ventilation by the cockpit crew.. it happened at EWR and according to the gate agent when I went through EWR on my next trip, they tore the front door off of another DC-8 when the auoleveler on the jetway caused a sudden rise for loading bridge. He also said they got a lot of attention from the FAA.
DC6 to 777 and most things in between
 
musang
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:23 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
tonystan wrote:
SwissCanuck wrote:

I'm assuming there's a "thud" moment when the door/jetway can't take the weight anymore and gives way. If the door was closed I'd be a more gentle trip to the ground.


I think going by the current lack of a door at 2L at all at the moment, the door was very much in the way!!!


With 2L being open during the failure, it would be broken off very easy I suppose. Put the entire weight of the airplane on the door/hinges while being connecting to a jetway or airstairs, well....you dont get a thud...you would get a loud crack, bang or a clang :crackup: :fight:


Depends how much of the mass was resting on the nose leg, based on how the load, and to a lesser extent, fuel was distributed at the time. There's only less than 10% of mass on the nose gear in normal ops, so if they had started loading the rear first it would have been minimal. In that case it would have been a gentle descent.

Yes it took the door off, but the hinges won't be designed to withstand much vertical stress upward.

Conjecture.
 
musang
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Re: BA 787-8 Nosewheel collapse at LHR

Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:26 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
tonystan wrote:
SwissCanuck wrote:

I'm assuming there's a "thud" moment when the door/jetway can't take the weight anymore and gives way. If the door was closed I'd be a more gentle trip to the ground.


I think going by the current lack of a door at 2L at all at the moment, the door was very much in the way!!!


With 2L being open during the failure, it would be broken off very easy I suppose. Put the entire weight of the airplane on the door/hinges while being connecting to a jetway or airstairs, well....you dont get a thud...you would get a loud crack, bang or a clang :crackup: :fight:


With generally 90%+ of the mass resting on the main gears in normal ops, the "weight on the door/hinge" is going to be minimal, even if they'd loaded the forward hold first.

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