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ddaly241
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How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:33 pm

While the new terminal A is still being built, I saw a design of a new EWR terminal 2 to replace terminal B and I've been so curious to find out what a new terminal 3 would look like to replace terminal C in the future. I also saw the layout of the new EWR airtrain and where the new terminals in the future would be located. Any thoughts?

https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-con ... ook-V2.pdf

https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/uploa ... ession.pdf
Last edited by atcsundevil on Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited title for clarity
 
IFLYUA767
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:02 am

Where did you see a design of the new terminal 2? I thought terminal 1 was the only new terminal.
 
ddaly241
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:27 am

IFLYUA767 wrote:
Where did you see a design of the new terminal 2? I thought terminal 1 was the only new terminal.


The link is here below if you want to look at it, it has the design of the new terminal 2.

https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/uploa ... ession.pdf
 
IFLYUA767
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:05 am

ddaly241 wrote:
IFLYUA767 wrote:
Where did you see a design of the new terminal 2? I thought terminal 1 was the only new terminal.


The link is here below if you want to look at it, it has the design of the new terminal 2.

https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/uploa ... ession.pdf


Thank you. I imagine that a new terminal 3 would be large because terminal c seems to be where UA has the majority of their operations. I believe UA was able to get there hands on a decent amount of gates at terminal 1 for mainline domestic flights. I don’t really have an idea of what terminal 2 would house when it comes to airlines. It is really nice to see EWR getting new facilities because it sounds like they really needed them.
 
IFLYUA767
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:11 am

Terminal 2 might house UA Express flights and non hub airlines.
 
ddaly241
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:35 am

IFLYUA767 wrote:
Terminal 2 might house UA Express flights and non hub airlines.


In the new terminal 2, it reminds me of the DFW terminal D, cause in my opinion, it could handle international carriers and United international arrivals and departures
 
N649DL
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:43 am

ddaly241 wrote:
While the new terminal A is still being built, I saw a design of a new EWR terminal 2 to replace terminal B and I've been so curious to find out what a new terminal 3 would look like to replace terminal C in the future. I also saw the layout of the new EWR airtrain and where the new terminals in the future would be located. Any thoughts?

https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-con ... ook-V2.pdf

https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/uploa ... ession.pdf


IIRC, Terminal 2 is only a preliminary prototype that has been hyped up and pushed on these forums because people want to fantasize replacing EWR Terminal B with T2. It's not necessary and I'm still confused as to why users keep obsessing over it.

First of all, should this happen, there seem to be quite a few more projects within the way of getting the T2 project even off the ground. The first is the figuring out whether T1 will expand to 45 gates with UA trying to gain ownership in that terminal seemingly within the last month. Should this happen, it's going to cause a lot of gate-related chaos throughout the airport. Chances are PANYNJ will need to make a decision to let UA move into new T1 and realign their gates in Terminal C to do so and/or UA retracts and stays in Terminal C (recall they pulled out of "A" during the pandemic and B6 moved it.)

Next up before any kind of T2 upgrade would be dealing with the AirTrain and PATH expansion to EWR, demolishing of the 1985-built Marriott and existing Terminal A. As I said before, don't expect a new "T2" to any real priority at the moment because there isn't anything exclusively wrong with it. It's functional, useful upgrades have been made over the last decade, and unless there is the need to actually construct a new runway, why bother? Why waste taxpayers money like this? They should figure out how to expand TTN first ahead of something like this.

I'm surprised by how some people are so optimistic about this project. This is *New Jersey* we're talking about here & the most corrupt union-based employees in the US. The fact that T1 has come so far so quick is actually pretty incredible. The best you can do is maybe see a new Terminal B by 2040. It just doesn't seem like a priority.
Last edited by N649DL on Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
IFLYUA767
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:44 am

ddaly241 wrote:
IFLYUA767 wrote:
Terminal 2 might house UA Express flights and non hub airlines.


In the new terminal 2, it reminds me of the DFW terminal D, cause in my opinion, it could handle international carriers and United international arrivals and departures


I took another look at the design and it probably would have the ability to handle international flights.
 
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Polot
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:17 am

IFLYUA767 wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
IFLYUA767 wrote:
Terminal 2 might house UA Express flights and non hub airlines.


In the new terminal 2, it reminds me of the DFW terminal D, cause in my opinion, it could handle international carriers and United international arrivals and departures


I took another look at the design and it probably would have the ability to handle international flights.

Well yes. Terminal B is EWR’s international terminal for all airlines not named UA (excusing airlines like AC flying from pre clearance airports), and the new Terminal A does not have FIS. It is a given that whatever replaces B will have FIS. Terminal C isn’t large enough to handle all the airport’s international traffic.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:56 am

Polot wrote:

Well yes. Terminal B is EWR’s international terminal for all airlines not named UA (excusing airlines like AC flying from pre clearance airports), and the new Terminal A does not have FIS. It is a given that whatever replaces B will have FIS. Terminal C isn’t large enough to handle all the airport’s international traffic.


What if the new B was for UA and C converted to int'l swing gates for the interim until a new C was built? Possible?
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer Night's Dream
 
codc10
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:07 pm

EWR is a third rail on this forum, so get ready for some fireworks on this thread.

N649DL wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
While the new terminal A is still being built, I saw a design of a new EWR terminal 2 to replace terminal B and I've been so curious to find out what a new terminal 3 would look like to replace terminal C in the future. I also saw the layout of the new EWR airtrain and where the new terminals in the future would be located. Any thoughts?

https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-con ... ook-V2.pdf

https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/uploa ... ession.pdf


IIRC, Terminal 2 is only a preliminary prototype that has been hyped up and pushed on these forums because people want to fantasize replacing EWR Terminal B with T2. It's not necessary and I'm still confused as to why users keep obsessing over it.

First of all, should this happen, there seem to be quite a few more projects within the way of getting the T2 project even off the ground. The first is the figuring out whether T1 will expand to 45 gates with UA trying to gain ownership in that terminal seemingly within the last month. Should this happen, it's going to cause a lot of gate-related chaos throughout the airport. Chances are PANYNJ will need to make a decision to let UA move into new T1 and realign their gates in Terminal C to do so and/or UA retracts and stays in Terminal C (recall they pulled out of "A" during the pandemic and B6 moved it.)

Next up before any kind of T2 upgrade would be dealing with the AirTrain and PATH expansion to EWR, demolishing of the 1985-built Marriott and existing Terminal A. As I said before, don't expect a new "T2" to any real priority at the moment because there isn't anything exclusively wrong with it. It's functional, useful upgrades have been made over the last decade, and unless there is the need to actually construct a new runway, why bother? Why waste taxpayers money like this? They should figure out how to expand TTN first ahead of something like this.

I'm surprised by how some people are so optimistic about this project. This is *New Jersey* we're talking about here & the most corrupt union-based employees in the US. The fact that T1 has come so far so quick is actually pretty incredible. The best you can do is maybe see a new Terminal B by 2040. It just doesn't seem like a priority.


A lot of conjecture here, but a few facts:

- The current Terminal B is approaching the end of its design/useful life: it was built in 1973 and substantially upgraded in 1996, with a few small-scale projects in the last 10 years. By the time ground is broken on a replacement it will be well into its sixth decade of operations in nearly its original form
- The current Terminal B has some significant facility constraints, e.g.: no dual-bridge loading for widebodies; small holdrooms; limited airline lounge space; insufficient pushback/startup taxiway space; tow-in gates; narrow alleys; old systems; extremely limited retail space (this is key… international terminals typically generate outsize retail revenue per square foot); among other things. These prevent it from being comparable to first-tier international terminals at other airports
- The master plan indeed includes a Terminal B replacement situated to the west of the current facility, which indeed involves demolition of the current Marriott hotel, which itself is nearly 40 years old
- The AirTrain replacement alignment contemplates the proposed location of the Terminal B replacement at the westerly location
- Building out the Terminal B replacement west of the current facility allows construction to be carried out while the existing facility is operational, with a phased opening, much like the LGA redevelopment or the EWR Terminal A replacement
- As airlines (especially United) upgauge EWR flights to larger equipment with greater wingspans, more linear terminal space is needed to handle the same number of flights; plus additional gates are needed to future-proof the airport should technology or airfield/airspace configuration changes allow incrementally higher capacity
- Meaningful TTN airfield expansion is a non-starter, and because it’s not a PANYNJ facility, what happens there has no direct bearing on EWR, and vice versa. While this is not a TTN thread, it’s worth noting that the biggest facility constraint there is runway length, and a lengthening project to support increased airline service will be met with enormous NIMBY pressure
- PANYNJ is not making any long-term, strategic decisions based on what its tenant airlines did during April/May 2020. That would be monumentally stupid
- The notion that United intends to cede ground at EWR is a pipe dream
Last edited by codc10 on Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:08 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
Polot wrote:

Well yes. Terminal B is EWR’s international terminal for all airlines not named UA (excusing airlines like AC flying from pre clearance airports), and the new Terminal A does not have FIS. It is a given that whatever replaces B will have FIS. Terminal C isn’t large enough to handle all the airport’s international traffic.


What if the new B was for UA and C converted to int'l swing gates for the interim until a new C was built? Possible?


I may be looking at the master plan incorrectly, but I don't see a new C as feasible right now. Terminal C's current footprint was built out in 1987-88 with the C3 concourse added in 2001. The improvements to the retail and dining complex have made it a lot more user friendly. There is no land available to the right of the edge of C3. In fact, aircraft and gates are almost at the perimeter.
 
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STT757
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:15 pm

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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STT757
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:36 pm

N649DL wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
While the new terminal A is still being built, I saw a design of a new EWR terminal 2 to replace terminal B and I've been so curious to find out what a new terminal 3 would look like to replace terminal C in the future. I also saw the layout of the new EWR airtrain and where the new terminals in the future would be located. Any thoughts?

https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-con ... ook-V2.pdf

https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/uploa ... ession.pdf


IIRC, Terminal 2 is only a preliminary prototype that has been hyped up and pushed on these forums because people want to fantasize replacing EWR Terminal B with T2. It's not necessary and I'm still confused as to why users keep obsessing over it.

First of all, should this happen, there seem to be quite a few more projects within the way of getting the T2 project even off the ground. The first is the figuring out whether T1 will expand to 45 gates with UA trying to gain ownership in that terminal seemingly within the last month. Should this happen, it's going to cause a lot of gate-related chaos throughout the airport. Chances are PANYNJ will need to make a decision to let UA move into new T1 and realign their gates in Terminal C to do so and/or UA retracts and stays in Terminal C (recall they pulled out of "A" during the pandemic and B6 moved it.)

Next up before any kind of T2 upgrade would be dealing with the AirTrain and PATH expansion to EWR, demolishing of the 1985-built Marriott and existing Terminal A. As I said before, don't expect a new "T2" to any real priority at the moment because there isn't anything exclusively wrong with it. It's functional, useful upgrades have been made over the last decade, and unless there is the need to actually construct a new runway, why bother? Why waste taxpayers money like this? They should figure out how to expand TTN first ahead of something like this.

I'm surprised by how some people are so optimistic about this project. This is *New Jersey* we're talking about here & the most corrupt union-based employees in the US. The fact that T1 has come so far so quick is actually pretty incredible. The best you can do is maybe see a new Terminal B by 2040. It just doesn't seem like a priority.


It's in the planning stages, they have allocated funds for design and planning. That's how major projects work, they develop a plan, they develop a design and then bid it out to contractors for final design and construction. Every major project has gone through this process, new Terminal One EWR, new CTB LGA, new World Trade Center, new Goethals Bridge, new(ish) Bayonne Bridge etc..

The EWR Terminals are reaching the ages that the former LaGuardia Central Terminal was when they started the redevelopment. These things aren't pyramids, they were designed in the 1960s and constructed in the early 1970s. I don't think the original planners envisioned the amount of traffic which would be moving through them or the large footprint post 9/11 security would require. If you look at the renderings Terminal One would connect to the new Terminal 2, so Terminal Ones expansion works with, not against, the redevelopment goals of Terminal 2. In fact that would probably be used to connect to the Terminal 2 FIS. I don't know why any decisions need to be made with United, they're going to be a tenant in Terminal One, they will probably at the least utilize Terminal 2 for FIS, and they will remain the sole occupant of Terminal C.

This is no different than Denver where they are in both concourses A and B, and sometimes used Concourse C. Or IAH where they use Terminals A, B, C, E and sometimes D. Or IAD where they are using C/D as well as recently A and almost all of the Z gates. If you look at the renderings of the new Terminal 2, and look at photos of Terminal One, you will notice they are substantially shifted to the West. This is needed to create more airfield space for taxiways, hardstands etc.. It's exactly what they did at LGA, they moved the new CTB way back up against the Grand Central to create more airfield. Terminal 2 at EWR is for International carriers, which will rebound eventually, the current banjo concourses are just not conducive to proper handling of the 747-8s (LH), 773s etc. they handle. They were built for Eastern 727s, DC-9s and DC-8s.

Also the taxpayers have no vested interest in any of this, as you know the Port Authority is not a State or Federal agency and does collect or receive "Taxes". They utilize user fees, tolls, rents, leases etc.. from their various properties to sell bonds which fund construction. They also tap into PFC's, which is a fee tagged into passenger tickets.

TTN is a property belonging to the County of Mercer. It's up to them what to do with the facility.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
trueblew
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:59 pm

codc10 wrote:
EWR is a third rail on this forum, so get ready for some fireworks on this thread.

N649DL wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
While the new terminal A is still being built, I saw a design of a new EWR terminal 2 to replace terminal B and I've been so curious to find out what a new terminal 3 would look like to replace terminal C in the future. I also saw the layout of the new EWR airtrain and where the new terminals in the future would be located. Any thoughts?

https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-con ... ook-V2.pdf

https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/uploa ... ession.pdf


IIRC, Terminal 2 is only a preliminary prototype that has been hyped up and pushed on these forums because people want to fantasize replacing EWR Terminal B with T2. It's not necessary and I'm still confused as to why users keep obsessing over it.

First of all, should this happen, there seem to be quite a few more projects within the way of getting the T2 project even off the ground. The first is the figuring out whether T1 will expand to 45 gates with UA trying to gain ownership in that terminal seemingly within the last month. Should this happen, it's going to cause a lot of gate-related chaos throughout the airport. Chances are PANYNJ will need to make a decision to let UA move into new T1 and realign their gates in Terminal C to do so and/or UA retracts and stays in Terminal C (recall they pulled out of "A" during the pandemic and B6 moved it.)

Next up before any kind of T2 upgrade would be dealing with the AirTrain and PATH expansion to EWR, demolishing of the 1985-built Marriott and existing Terminal A. As I said before, don't expect a new "T2" to any real priority at the moment because there isn't anything exclusively wrong with it. It's functional, useful upgrades have been made over the last decade, and unless there is the need to actually construct a new runway, why bother? Why waste taxpayers money like this? They should figure out how to expand TTN first ahead of something like this.

I'm surprised by how some people are so optimistic about this project. This is *New Jersey* we're talking about here & the most corrupt union-based employees in the US. The fact that T1 has come so far so quick is actually pretty incredible. The best you can do is maybe see a new Terminal B by 2040. It just doesn't seem like a priority.


A lot of conjecture here, but a few facts:

- The current Terminal B is approaching the end of its design/useful life: it was built in 1973 and substantially upgraded in 1996, with a few small-scale projects in the last 10 years. By the time ground is broken on a replacement it will be well into its sixth decade of operations in nearly its original form
- The current Terminal B has some significant facility constraints, e.g.: no dual-bridge loading for widebodies; small holdrooms; limited airline lounge space; insufficient pushback/startup taxiway space; tow-in gates; narrow alleys; old systems; extremely limited retail space (this is key… international terminals typically generate outsize retail revenue per square foot); among other things. These prevent it from being comparable to first-tier international terminals at other airports
- The master plan indeed includes a Terminal B replacement situated to the west of the current facility, which indeed involves demolition of the current Marriott hotel, which itself is nearly 40 years old
- The AirTrain replacement alignment contemplates the proposed location of the Terminal B replacement at the westerly location
- Building out the Terminal B replacement west of the current facility allows construction to be carried out while the existing facility is operational, with a phased opening, much like the LGA redevelopment or the EWR Terminal A replacement
- As airlines (especially United) upgauge EWR flights to larger equipment with greater wingspans, more linear terminal space is needed to handle the same number of flights; plus additional gates are needed to future-proof the airport should technology or airfield/airspace configuration changes allow incrementally higher capacity
- Meaningful TTN airfield expansion is a non-starter, and because it’s not a PANYNJ facility, what happens there has no direct bearing on EWR, and vice versa. While this is not a TTN thread, it’s worth noting that the biggest facility constraint there is runway length, and a lengthening project to support increased airline service will be met with enormous NIMBY pressure
- PANYNJ is not making any long-term, strategic decisions based on what its tenant airlines did during April/May 2020. That would be monumentally stupid
- The notion that United intends to cede ground at EWR is a pipe dream



If the OP wants an accurate assessment, they'll be well served to read codc10's post and completely disregard N649DL.
 
N649DL
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:47 pm

trueblew wrote:
codc10 wrote:
EWR is a third rail on this forum, so get ready for some fireworks on this thread.

N649DL wrote:

IIRC, Terminal 2 is only a preliminary prototype that has been hyped up and pushed on these forums because people want to fantasize replacing EWR Terminal B with T2. It's not necessary and I'm still confused as to why users keep obsessing over it.

First of all, should this happen, there seem to be quite a few more projects within the way of getting the T2 project even off the ground. The first is the figuring out whether T1 will expand to 45 gates with UA trying to gain ownership in that terminal seemingly within the last month. Should this happen, it's going to cause a lot of gate-related chaos throughout the airport. Chances are PANYNJ will need to make a decision to let UA move into new T1 and realign their gates in Terminal C to do so and/or UA retracts and stays in Terminal C (recall they pulled out of "A" during the pandemic and B6 moved it.)

Next up before any kind of T2 upgrade would be dealing with the AirTrain and PATH expansion to EWR, demolishing of the 1985-built Marriott and existing Terminal A. As I said before, don't expect a new "T2" to any real priority at the moment because there isn't anything exclusively wrong with it. It's functional, useful upgrades have been made over the last decade, and unless there is the need to actually construct a new runway, why bother? Why waste taxpayers money like this? They should figure out how to expand TTN first ahead of something like this.

I'm surprised by how some people are so optimistic about this project. This is *New Jersey* we're talking about here & the most corrupt union-based employees in the US. The fact that T1 has come so far so quick is actually pretty incredible. The best you can do is maybe see a new Terminal B by 2040. It just doesn't seem like a priority.


A lot of conjecture here, but a few facts:

- The current Terminal B is approaching the end of its design/useful life: it was built in 1973 and substantially upgraded in 1996, with a few small-scale projects in the last 10 years. By the time ground is broken on a replacement it will be well into its sixth decade of operations in nearly its original form
- The current Terminal B has some significant facility constraints, e.g.: no dual-bridge loading for widebodies; small holdrooms; limited airline lounge space; insufficient pushback/startup taxiway space; tow-in gates; narrow alleys; old systems; extremely limited retail space (this is key… international terminals typically generate outsize retail revenue per square foot); among other things. These prevent it from being comparable to first-tier international terminals at other airports
- The master plan indeed includes a Terminal B replacement situated to the west of the current facility, which indeed involves demolition of the current Marriott hotel, which itself is nearly 40 years old
- The AirTrain replacement alignment contemplates the proposed location of the Terminal B replacement at the westerly location
- Building out the Terminal B replacement west of the current facility allows construction to be carried out while the existing facility is operational, with a phased opening, much like the LGA redevelopment or the EWR Terminal A replacement
- As airlines (especially United) upgauge EWR flights to larger equipment with greater wingspans, more linear terminal space is needed to handle the same number of flights; plus additional gates are needed to future-proof the airport should technology or airfield/airspace configuration changes allow incrementally higher capacity
- Meaningful TTN airfield expansion is a non-starter, and because it’s not a PANYNJ facility, what happens there has no direct bearing on EWR, and vice versa. While this is not a TTN thread, it’s worth noting that the biggest facility constraint there is runway length, and a lengthening project to support increased airline service will be met with enormous NIMBY pressure
- PANYNJ is not making any long-term, strategic decisions based on what its tenant airlines did during April/May 2020. That would be monumentally stupid
- The notion that United intends to cede ground at EWR is a pipe dream



If the OP wants an accurate assessment, they'll be well served to read codc10's post and completely disregard N649DL.


Oh really? When was the last update on the T2 project? Not recently, that's probably for certain. My main point is it's going to be a long time before you can expect to hear back anything meaningful with regards to this project. And regardless (let's not deny the inevitable), once you get the teamsters, mafia, politicians, construction workers, etc. involved it's going to be a long while to make way for this challenging project.
 
codc10
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:17 pm

N649DL wrote:
trueblew wrote:
codc10 wrote:
EWR is a third rail on this forum, so get ready for some fireworks on this thread.



A lot of conjecture here, but a few facts:

- The current Terminal B is approaching the end of its design/useful life: it was built in 1973 and substantially upgraded in 1996, with a few small-scale projects in the last 10 years. By the time ground is broken on a replacement it will be well into its sixth decade of operations in nearly its original form
- The current Terminal B has some significant facility constraints, e.g.: no dual-bridge loading for widebodies; small holdrooms; limited airline lounge space; insufficient pushback/startup taxiway space; tow-in gates; narrow alleys; old systems; extremely limited retail space (this is key… international terminals typically generate outsize retail revenue per square foot); among other things. These prevent it from being comparable to first-tier international terminals at other airports
- The master plan indeed includes a Terminal B replacement situated to the west of the current facility, which indeed involves demolition of the current Marriott hotel, which itself is nearly 40 years old
- The AirTrain replacement alignment contemplates the proposed location of the Terminal B replacement at the westerly location
- Building out the Terminal B replacement west of the current facility allows construction to be carried out while the existing facility is operational, with a phased opening, much like the LGA redevelopment or the EWR Terminal A replacement
- As airlines (especially United) upgauge EWR flights to larger equipment with greater wingspans, more linear terminal space is needed to handle the same number of flights; plus additional gates are needed to future-proof the airport should technology or airfield/airspace configuration changes allow incrementally higher capacity
- Meaningful TTN airfield expansion is a non-starter, and because it’s not a PANYNJ facility, what happens there has no direct bearing on EWR, and vice versa. While this is not a TTN thread, it’s worth noting that the biggest facility constraint there is runway length, and a lengthening project to support increased airline service will be met with enormous NIMBY pressure
- PANYNJ is not making any long-term, strategic decisions based on what its tenant airlines did during April/May 2020. That would be monumentally stupid
- The notion that United intends to cede ground at EWR is a pipe dream



If the OP wants an accurate assessment, they'll be well served to read codc10's post and completely disregard N649DL.


Oh really? When was the last update on the T2 project? Not recently, that's probably for certain. My main point is it's going to be a long time before you can expect to hear back anything meaningful with regards to this project. And regardless (let's not deny the inevitable), once you get the teamsters, mafia, politicians, construction workers, etc. involved it's going to be a long while to make way for this challenging project.


I would suggest you peruse the publicly-available PANYNJ Board meeting minutes and reports for answers to many of your questions, on this thread and elsewhere. Heck, you might even learn something, and become a reasonably-informed poster in the process!

https://www.panynj.gov/corporate/en/boa ... tions.html

The Port has its issues; they are well-documented, but this isn't a Martin Scorsese movie.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:22 pm

codc10 wrote:
- The notion that United intends to cede ground at EWR is a pipe dream

B6 is up to 50+ daily departures
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:50 pm

trueblew wrote:
codc10 wrote:
EWR is a third rail on this forum, so get ready for some fireworks on this thread.

N649DL wrote:

IIRC, Terminal 2 is only a preliminary prototype that has been hyped up and pushed on these forums because people want to fantasize replacing EWR Terminal B with T2. It's not necessary and I'm still confused as to why users keep obsessing over it.

First of all, should this happen, there seem to be quite a few more projects within the way of getting the T2 project even off the ground. The first is the figuring out whether T1 will expand to 45 gates with UA trying to gain ownership in that terminal seemingly within the last month. Should this happen, it's going to cause a lot of gate-related chaos throughout the airport. Chances are PANYNJ will need to make a decision to let UA move into new T1 and realign their gates in Terminal C to do so and/or UA retracts and stays in Terminal C (recall they pulled out of "A" during the pandemic and B6 moved it.)

Next up before any kind of T2 upgrade would be dealing with the AirTrain and PATH expansion to EWR, demolishing of the 1985-built Marriott and existing Terminal A. As I said before, don't expect a new "T2" to any real priority at the moment because there isn't anything exclusively wrong with it. It's functional, useful upgrades have been made over the last decade, and unless there is the need to actually construct a new runway, why bother? Why waste taxpayers money like this? They should figure out how to expand TTN first ahead of something like this.

I'm surprised by how some people are so optimistic about this project. This is *New Jersey* we're talking about here & the most corrupt union-based employees in the US. The fact that T1 has come so far so quick is actually pretty incredible. The best you can do is maybe see a new Terminal B by 2040. It just doesn't seem like a priority.


A lot of conjecture here, but a few facts:

- The current Terminal B is approaching the end of its design/useful life: it was built in 1973 and substantially upgraded in 1996, with a few small-scale projects in the last 10 years. By the time ground is broken on a replacement it will be well into its sixth decade of operations in nearly its original form
- The current Terminal B has some significant facility constraints, e.g.: no dual-bridge loading for widebodies; small holdrooms; limited airline lounge space; insufficient pushback/startup taxiway space; tow-in gates; narrow alleys; old systems; extremely limited retail space (this is key… international terminals typically generate outsize retail revenue per square foot); among other things. These prevent it from being comparable to first-tier international terminals at other airports
- The master plan indeed includes a Terminal B replacement situated to the west of the current facility, which indeed involves demolition of the current Marriott hotel, which itself is nearly 40 years old
- The AirTrain replacement alignment contemplates the proposed location of the Terminal B replacement at the westerly location
- Building out the Terminal B replacement west of the current facility allows construction to be carried out while the existing facility is operational, with a phased opening, much like the LGA redevelopment or the EWR Terminal A replacement
- As airlines (especially United) upgauge EWR flights to larger equipment with greater wingspans, more linear terminal space is needed to handle the same number of flights; plus additional gates are needed to future-proof the airport should technology or airfield/airspace configuration changes allow incrementally higher capacity
- Meaningful TTN airfield expansion is a non-starter, and because it’s not a PANYNJ facility, what happens there has no direct bearing on EWR, and vice versa. While this is not a TTN thread, it’s worth noting that the biggest facility constraint there is runway length, and a lengthening project to support increased airline service will be met with enormous NIMBY pressure
- PANYNJ is not making any long-term, strategic decisions based on what its tenant airlines did during April/May 2020. That would be monumentally stupid
- The notion that United intends to cede ground at EWR is a pipe dream



If the OP wants an accurate assessment, they'll be well served to read codc10's post and completely disregard N649DL.


Actually, the post by N649DL is a realistic assessment that holds factual merit


Feel free to book a room at the Marriott in 2025 :)
 
codc10
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:22 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
trueblew wrote:
codc10 wrote:
EWR is a third rail on this forum, so get ready for some fireworks on this thread.



A lot of conjecture here, but a few facts:

- The current Terminal B is approaching the end of its design/useful life: it was built in 1973 and substantially upgraded in 1996, with a few small-scale projects in the last 10 years. By the time ground is broken on a replacement it will be well into its sixth decade of operations in nearly its original form
- The current Terminal B has some significant facility constraints, e.g.: no dual-bridge loading for widebodies; small holdrooms; limited airline lounge space; insufficient pushback/startup taxiway space; tow-in gates; narrow alleys; old systems; extremely limited retail space (this is key… international terminals typically generate outsize retail revenue per square foot); among other things. These prevent it from being comparable to first-tier international terminals at other airports
- The master plan indeed includes a Terminal B replacement situated to the west of the current facility, which indeed involves demolition of the current Marriott hotel, which itself is nearly 40 years old
- The AirTrain replacement alignment contemplates the proposed location of the Terminal B replacement at the westerly location
- Building out the Terminal B replacement west of the current facility allows construction to be carried out while the existing facility is operational, with a phased opening, much like the LGA redevelopment or the EWR Terminal A replacement
- As airlines (especially United) upgauge EWR flights to larger equipment with greater wingspans, more linear terminal space is needed to handle the same number of flights; plus additional gates are needed to future-proof the airport should technology or airfield/airspace configuration changes allow incrementally higher capacity
- Meaningful TTN airfield expansion is a non-starter, and because it’s not a PANYNJ facility, what happens there has no direct bearing on EWR, and vice versa. While this is not a TTN thread, it’s worth noting that the biggest facility constraint there is runway length, and a lengthening project to support increased airline service will be met with enormous NIMBY pressure
- PANYNJ is not making any long-term, strategic decisions based on what its tenant airlines did during April/May 2020. That would be monumentally stupid
- The notion that United intends to cede ground at EWR is a pipe dream



If the OP wants an accurate assessment, they'll be well served to read codc10's post and completely disregard N649DL.


Actually, the post by N649DL is a realistic assessment that holds factual merit


Feel free to book a room at the Marriott in 2025 :)


It's certainly a realistic assessment if one's primary reason for posting on the forum is to troll... nevertheless, I don't think even the most ambitious timetable for the Terminal B replacement will have the Marriott demolished by 2025.

2030? If there is a return to 2019 traffic levels by 2025? I think that's within reason.

MaverickM11 wrote:
codc10 wrote:
- The notion that United intends to cede ground at EWR is a pipe dream

B6 is up to 50+ daily departures


Pretending as though these are normal circumstances is the height of absurdity. We've debated the point over and over here, but the fact remains (and continues to be demonstrated) that United will have access to the real estate it needs to support its pre-pandemic operation. It does not intend to cede ground to JetBlue.
Last edited by codc10 on Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
trueblew
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:23 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
trueblew wrote:
codc10 wrote:
EWR is a third rail on this forum, so get ready for some fireworks on this thread.



A lot of conjecture here, but a few facts:

- The current Terminal B is approaching the end of its design/useful life: it was built in 1973 and substantially upgraded in 1996, with a few small-scale projects in the last 10 years. By the time ground is broken on a replacement it will be well into its sixth decade of operations in nearly its original form
- The current Terminal B has some significant facility constraints, e.g.: no dual-bridge loading for widebodies; small holdrooms; limited airline lounge space; insufficient pushback/startup taxiway space; tow-in gates; narrow alleys; old systems; extremely limited retail space (this is key… international terminals typically generate outsize retail revenue per square foot); among other things. These prevent it from being comparable to first-tier international terminals at other airports
- The master plan indeed includes a Terminal B replacement situated to the west of the current facility, which indeed involves demolition of the current Marriott hotel, which itself is nearly 40 years old
- The AirTrain replacement alignment contemplates the proposed location of the Terminal B replacement at the westerly location
- Building out the Terminal B replacement west of the current facility allows construction to be carried out while the existing facility is operational, with a phased opening, much like the LGA redevelopment or the EWR Terminal A replacement
- As airlines (especially United) upgauge EWR flights to larger equipment with greater wingspans, more linear terminal space is needed to handle the same number of flights; plus additional gates are needed to future-proof the airport should technology or airfield/airspace configuration changes allow incrementally higher capacity
- Meaningful TTN airfield expansion is a non-starter, and because it’s not a PANYNJ facility, what happens there has no direct bearing on EWR, and vice versa. While this is not a TTN thread, it’s worth noting that the biggest facility constraint there is runway length, and a lengthening project to support increased airline service will be met with enormous NIMBY pressure
- PANYNJ is not making any long-term, strategic decisions based on what its tenant airlines did during April/May 2020. That would be monumentally stupid
- The notion that United intends to cede ground at EWR is a pipe dream



If the OP wants an accurate assessment, they'll be well served to read codc10's post and completely disregard N649DL.


Actually, the post by N649DL is a realistic assessment that holds factual merit


Feel free to book a room at the Marriott in 2025 :)


It isn't realistic; it's cynical and uninformed. Many of us are aware of the issues related to projects and labor in the Tri-State and the PANYNJ in particular, but N649DL sounds like he's sitting in a basement in Peachtree City taking some gratuitous shots.

While I don't have the time to browse your past posts, I wouldn't be surprised if you said "feel free to book a flight departing from LGA Gate A2 in 2021" a few years ago.
 
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airzim
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:19 pm

N649DL wrote:
trueblew wrote:
codc10 wrote:
EWR is a third rail on this forum, so get ready for some fireworks on this thread.



A lot of conjecture here, but a few facts:

- The current Terminal B is approaching the end of its design/useful life: it was built in 1973 and substantially upgraded in 1996, with a few small-scale projects in the last 10 years. By the time ground is broken on a replacement it will be well into its sixth decade of operations in nearly its original form
- The current Terminal B has some significant facility constraints, e.g.: no dual-bridge loading for widebodies; small holdrooms; limited airline lounge space; insufficient pushback/startup taxiway space; tow-in gates; narrow alleys; old systems; extremely limited retail space (this is key… international terminals typically generate outsize retail revenue per square foot); among other things. These prevent it from being comparable to first-tier international terminals at other airports
- The master plan indeed includes a Terminal B replacement situated to the west of the current facility, which indeed involves demolition of the current Marriott hotel, which itself is nearly 40 years old
- The AirTrain replacement alignment contemplates the proposed location of the Terminal B replacement at the westerly location
- Building out the Terminal B replacement west of the current facility allows construction to be carried out while the existing facility is operational, with a phased opening, much like the LGA redevelopment or the EWR Terminal A replacement
- As airlines (especially United) upgauge EWR flights to larger equipment with greater wingspans, more linear terminal space is needed to handle the same number of flights; plus additional gates are needed to future-proof the airport should technology or airfield/airspace configuration changes allow incrementally higher capacity
- Meaningful TTN airfield expansion is a non-starter, and because it’s not a PANYNJ facility, what happens there has no direct bearing on EWR, and vice versa. While this is not a TTN thread, it’s worth noting that the biggest facility constraint there is runway length, and a lengthening project to support increased airline service will be met with enormous NIMBY pressure
- PANYNJ is not making any long-term, strategic decisions based on what its tenant airlines did during April/May 2020. That would be monumentally stupid
- The notion that United intends to cede ground at EWR is a pipe dream



If the OP wants an accurate assessment, they'll be well served to read codc10's post and completely disregard N649DL.


Oh really? When was the last update on the T2 project? Not recently, that's probably for certain. My main point is it's going to be a long time before you can expect to hear back anything meaningful with regards to this project. And regardless (let's not deny the inevitable), once you get the teamsters, mafia, politicians, construction workers, etc. involved it's going to be a long while to make way for this challenging project.


And yet the same agency and members of the construction community, you insult has managed to build both Term 1 at EWR and LGA on time and on budget in a remarkable amount of time given they didn't have the luxury of shutting down airport operations at either location.

Whether they manage to get Term 2 built is likely related to prioritizing projects in the PANYNJ portfolio, and not because of some perceived corruption.
 
N649DL
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:11 pm

trueblew wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
trueblew wrote:


If the OP wants an accurate assessment, they'll be well served to read codc10's post and completely disregard N649DL.


Actually, the post by N649DL is a realistic assessment that holds factual merit


Feel free to book a room at the Marriott in 2025 :)


It isn't realistic; it's cynical and uninformed. Many of us are aware of the issues related to projects and labor in the Tri-State and the PANYNJ in particular, but N649DL sounds like he's sitting in a basement in Peachtree City taking some gratuitous shots.

While I don't have the time to browse your past posts, I wouldn't be surprised if you said "feel free to book a flight departing from LGA Gate A2 in 2021" a few years ago.


Peachtree City? Try near the beach in the South Bay, Los Angeles, CA.

It's not misinformed, it's users on here being grossly optimistic about a project that is likely going to be delayed. It's not even known yet if they plan on expanding T1 to it's capacity limit and unresolved as to UA trying to acquire most of the terminal (based on previous threads.)

They might be a little more responsive these days with upgrades to EWR and LGA based on the past, but to fantasize that the eventual structure of EWR is going to be like a DEN is a pipe dream. What does DEN that EWR doesn't? Tons of space. DEN might as well be located in Kansas and EWR is landlocked for a variety of reasons. My point is expect these plans to change a great deal in the coming years and reset your expectations to something more reasonable based on the agency already running it.

Original mock ups included an "EWR City" with a PATH Train extension and even a Convention Center and Bike Path which runs through it. Again, based on the current state all of this is grossly optimistic. And then some on here say that there will be an eventual T3 to replace current Terminal C as well? If that's the case, the head house in Terminal C is probably in worse shape in some ways than the upgrades made in Terminal B. Plans are indefinitely going to change.

They need another runway to alleviate congestion, not turning EWR into its own city with a Convention Center. What's next? They're going to plan on building a Casino there as well?

codc10 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
trueblew wrote:


If the OP wants an accurate assessment, they'll be well served to read codc10's post and completely disregard N649DL.


Actually, the post by N649DL is a realistic assessment that holds factual merit


Feel free to book a room at the Marriott in 2025 :)


It's certainly a realistic assessment if one's primary reason for posting on the forum is to troll... nevertheless, I don't think even the most ambitious timetable for the Terminal B replacement will have the Marriott demolished by 2025.

2030? If there is a return to 2019 traffic levels by 2025? I think that's within reason.

MaverickM11 wrote:
codc10 wrote:
- The notion that United intends to cede ground at EWR is a pipe dream

B6 is up to 50+ daily departures


Pretending as though these are normal circumstances is the height of absurdity. We've debated the point over and over here, but the fact remains (and continues to be demonstrated) that United will have access to the real estate it needs to support its pre-pandemic operation. It does not intend to cede ground to JetBlue.


And slots are gone from EWR. In no way, shape, or form does UA own EWR like CO used to (people need to accept the fact that those days are gone.) You got B6 expanding like crazy there right now and also F9 and NK wanting a piece of the action there too. For years UA (and before that CO) has price gauged the local population, and Christ, good riddance. It's a good thing to have more competition and not have EWR be stapled down by UA who can't even keep up with Terminal C with temporary toilets and clubs (last time I checked at least.)
 
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:12 am

N649DL wrote:
And slots are gone from EWR. In no way, shape, or form does UA own EWR like CO used to (people need to accept the fact that those days are gone.) You got B6 expanding like crazy there right now and also F9 and NK wanting a piece of the action there too. For years UA (and before that CO) has price gauged the local population, and Christ, good riddance. It's a good thing to have more competition and not have EWR be stapled down by UA who can't even keep up with Terminal C with temporary toilets and clubs (last time I checked at least.)


Slots are not real estate, but gates are, and United will have access to all the gates it needs to support its pre-pandemic operation.

EWR threads read like broken records.
 
N649DL
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:17 am

codc10 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
And slots are gone from EWR. In no way, shape, or form does UA own EWR like CO used to (people need to accept the fact that those days are gone.) You got B6 expanding like crazy there right now and also F9 and NK wanting a piece of the action there too. For years UA (and before that CO) has price gauged the local population, and Christ, good riddance. It's a good thing to have more competition and not have EWR be stapled down by UA who can't even keep up with Terminal C with temporary toilets and clubs (last time I checked at least.)


Slots are not real estate, but gates are, and United will have access to all the gates it needs to support its pre-pandemic operation.

EWR threads read like broken records.


Who says UA is even going to get back to it's pre-pandemic operation upon the opening of T1? From what it seems like, because UA left A-2 to retract back to Terminal C entirely, they want T1 to maybe "gate squat" in some ways.

I think there's a lot of misestimation as to what B6 wants to do at EWR. Anyone go on Wiki recently and see the amount of destinations they plan on serving this year? I don't think there has been a major push like this at EWR since at least the early 1990s with US operating out of A-2. Not even WN moving into A-1 back in the day can compare.
 
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:29 am

N649DL wrote:
Who says UA is even going to get back to it's pre-pandemic operation upon the opening of T1? From what it seems like, because UA left A-2 to retract back to Terminal C entirely, they want T1 to maybe "gate squat" in some ways.

I think there's a lot of misestimation as to what B6 wants to do at EWR. Anyone go on Wiki recently and see the amount of destinations they plan on serving this year? I don't think there has been a major push like this at EWR since at least the early 1990s with US operating out of A-2. Not even WN moving into A-1 back in the day can compare.


It's very simple... reduced business and international travel, which was a huge part of the EWR hub. It's not a deliberate strategy by UA to pull down EWR.

UA is where the market demands right now... and everywhere JetBlue is, so is United. JetBlue can only do so much at EWR. Florida, Caribbean, domestic leisure, etc. Right now, EWR is constrained due to runway work. We'll see what happens in 2022...
 
Jerseyguy
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:32 am

codc10 wrote:
- Meaningful TTN airfield expansion is a non-starter, and because it’s not a PANYNJ facility, what happens there has no direct bearing on EWR, and vice versa. While this is not a TTN thread, it’s worth noting that the biggest facility constraint there is runway length, and a lengthening project to support increased airline service will be met with enormous NIMBY pressure

NIMBY's are already on the attack about the new terminal that is estimated to be finished Q4 '23 or Q1 '24. I could see Breeze or Jetblue coming when it does open. The plans look good though

http://trentonairportinfo.com/files/res ... bf5ceb.jpg
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:01 am

In long run PANYNJ should build extra runway and new terminals to accommodate the future growth or NYC
Image

Runways: 8
Area: 5900 acres
Movement: 200/hr (visual) / 140/hr (instrument)
Pax capacity: 120mpax annual
Cargo capacity: 5m tons annual
 
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STT757
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:42 pm

N649DL wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
While the new terminal A is still being built, I saw a design of a new EWR terminal 2 to replace terminal B and I've been so curious to find out what a new terminal 3 would look like to replace terminal C in the future. I also saw the layout of the new EWR airtrain and where the new terminals in the future would be located. Any thoughts?

https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-con ... ook-V2.pdf

https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/uploa ... ession.pdf


IIRC, Terminal 2 is only a preliminary prototype that has been hyped up and pushed on these forums because people want to fantasize replacing EWR Terminal B with T2. It's not necessary and I'm still confused as to why users keep obsessing over it.

First of all, should this happen, there seem to be quite a few more projects within the way of getting the T2 project even off the ground. The first is the figuring out whether T1 will expand to 45 gates with UA trying to gain ownership in that terminal seemingly within the last month. Should this happen, it's going to cause a lot of gate-related chaos throughout the airport. Chances are PANYNJ will need to make a decision to let UA move into new T1 and realign their gates in Terminal C to do so and/or UA retracts and stays in Terminal C (recall they pulled out of "A" during the pandemic and B6 moved it.)

Next up before any kind of T2 upgrade would be dealing with the AirTrain and PATH expansion to EWR, demolishing of the 1985-built Marriott and existing Terminal A. As I said before, don't expect a new "T2" to any real priority at the moment because there isn't anything exclusively wrong with it. It's functional, useful upgrades have been made over the last decade, and unless there is the need to actually construct a new runway, why bother? Why waste taxpayers money like this? They should figure out how to expand TTN first ahead of something like this.

I'm surprised by how some people are so optimistic about this project. This is *New Jersey* we're talking about here & the most corrupt union-based employees in the US. The fact that T1 has come so far so quick is actually pretty incredible. The best you can do is maybe see a new Terminal B by 2040. It just doesn't seem like a priority.


As you can see in the new Airtrain routing (page 16 of the linked PDF) they are very much indeed committed to the new Terminal 2, so much so that the new Terminal B Airtrain station is no where near the current Terminal B. They wouldn't do that unless they were committed. Also as you can seen in this picture the new Terminal B will connect physically to the new Terminal One. The land upon which the new Terminal 2 will be constructed (shaded in blue) is almost entirely being built over existing surface parking lots, and the site of the existing Terminal A which will be torn down once the new Airtrain will be built. This new terminal will be built without disturbing existing operations.

https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Airtrain-EWR-Program-Briefing-Book-V2.pdf
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:53 pm

While the terminal 2 redevelopment is very much still happening, it’s going to be a little bit before we see actual progress. Heck, T1 is 2 years delayed and the PANYNJ is still calling it “on time.” I expect to see a ground breaking on the eventual terminal 2 around 2026-2027. The gap between the new terminals 2 and eventually 3 though, should be much smaller. Flew through terminal C this morning, it is horrendous. UA has to be competitive again in NYC and their product right now certainly doesn’t reflect that. Long lines this morning for both the check in and security. At least B6 has doubled their check in space lately.
 
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STT757
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:46 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
While the terminal 2 redevelopment is very much still happening, it’s going to be a little bit before we see actual progress. Heck, T1 is 2 years delayed and the PANYNJ is still calling it “on time.” I expect to see a ground breaking on the eventual terminal 2 around 2026-2027. The gap between the new terminals 2 and eventually 3 though, should be much smaller. Flew through terminal C this morning, it is horrendous. UA has to be competitive again in NYC and their product right now certainly doesn’t reflect that. Long lines this morning for both the check in and security. At least B6 has doubled their check in space lately.


Have you seen the threads and news reports regarding delays and cancellations at the airports? United has been doing remarkably well compared to AA and WN in terms of cancellations.The lines at check in is United’s to fix, the lines at security screening is the TSA. Having spoken to people who have flown recently, particularly at MCO, the lines for security have been very long.

It’s all part of the process of basically restarting an industry that was virtually shutdown. It’s not just airlines, you can’t buy furniture now because it will take months and months to receive it, car dealerships are low on inventory, and you can’t get grilled chicken at many fast food restaurants.

The issue is that the return of travel, which is exceptional compared to what some prior projections were forecasting, just so happens to coincide with the peak Summer travel season. If this were October things would be much smoother all around.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
codc10
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:39 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
While the terminal 2 redevelopment is very much still happening, it’s going to be a little bit before we see actual progress. Heck, T1 is 2 years delayed and the PANYNJ is still calling it “on time.” I expect to see a ground breaking on the eventual terminal 2 around 2026-2027. The gap between the new terminals 2 and eventually 3 though, should be much smaller. Flew through terminal C this morning, it is horrendous. UA has to be competitive again in NYC and their product right now certainly doesn’t reflect that. Long lines this morning for both the check in and security. At least B6 has doubled their check in space lately.


United completed a major security checkpoint consolidation project about 2 years ago… the issue now is TSA staffing and fewer lanes being open. The current checkpoint is not fully in use.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:52 pm

STT757 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
While the new terminal A is still being built, I saw a design of a new EWR terminal 2 to replace terminal B and I've been so curious to find out what a new terminal 3 would look like to replace terminal C in the future. I also saw the layout of the new EWR airtrain and where the new terminals in the future would be located. Any thoughts?

https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-con ... ook-V2.pdf

https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/uploa ... ession.pdf


IIRC, Terminal 2 is only a preliminary prototype that has been hyped up and pushed on these forums because people want to fantasize replacing EWR Terminal B with T2. It's not necessary and I'm still confused as to why users keep obsessing over it.

First of all, should this happen, there seem to be quite a few more projects within the way of getting the T2 project even off the ground. The first is the figuring out whether T1 will expand to 45 gates with UA trying to gain ownership in that terminal seemingly within the last month. Should this happen, it's going to cause a lot of gate-related chaos throughout the airport. Chances are PANYNJ will need to make a decision to let UA move into new T1 and realign their gates in Terminal C to do so and/or UA retracts and stays in Terminal C (recall they pulled out of "A" during the pandemic and B6 moved it.)

Next up before any kind of T2 upgrade would be dealing with the AirTrain and PATH expansion to EWR, demolishing of the 1985-built Marriott and existing Terminal A. As I said before, don't expect a new "T2" to any real priority at the moment because there isn't anything exclusively wrong with it. It's functional, useful upgrades have been made over the last decade, and unless there is the need to actually construct a new runway, why bother? Why waste taxpayers money like this? They should figure out how to expand TTN first ahead of something like this.

I'm surprised by how some people are so optimistic about this project. This is *New Jersey* we're talking about here & the most corrupt union-based employees in the US. The fact that T1 has come so far so quick is actually pretty incredible. The best you can do is maybe see a new Terminal B by 2040. It just doesn't seem like a priority.


As you can see in the new Airtrain routing (page 16 of the linked PDF) they are very much indeed committed to the new Terminal 2, so much so that the new Terminal B Airtrain station is no where near the current Terminal B. They wouldn't do that unless they were committed. Also as you can seen in this picture the new Terminal B will connect physically to the new Terminal One. The land upon which the new Terminal 2 will be constructed (shaded in blue) is almost entirely being built over existing surface parking lots, and the site of the existing Terminal A which will be torn down once the new Airtrain will be built. This new terminal will be built without disturbing existing operations.

https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Airtrain-EWR-Program-Briefing-Book-V2.pdf


Airtrain is just a proposal as well.

The problem I foresee with that proposal: If the new Airtrain gets up and running before a new terminal B, There isn’t going to be any connection from the train to the old terminal.

At this point it’s all a master plan that can and will be amended as needed.

The only thing that’s happening is a new terminal A will be opening up shortly.

Also to the other posters who haven’t picked up on it, they scrapped terminal 1…it’s going to remain terminal A.
 
codc10
Posts: 3152
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:03 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
STT757 wrote:
N649DL wrote:

IIRC, Terminal 2 is only a preliminary prototype that has been hyped up and pushed on these forums because people want to fantasize replacing EWR Terminal B with T2. It's not necessary and I'm still confused as to why users keep obsessing over it.

First of all, should this happen, there seem to be quite a few more projects within the way of getting the T2 project even off the ground. The first is the figuring out whether T1 will expand to 45 gates with UA trying to gain ownership in that terminal seemingly within the last month. Should this happen, it's going to cause a lot of gate-related chaos throughout the airport. Chances are PANYNJ will need to make a decision to let UA move into new T1 and realign their gates in Terminal C to do so and/or UA retracts and stays in Terminal C (recall they pulled out of "A" during the pandemic and B6 moved it.)

Next up before any kind of T2 upgrade would be dealing with the AirTrain and PATH expansion to EWR, demolishing of the 1985-built Marriott and existing Terminal A. As I said before, don't expect a new "T2" to any real priority at the moment because there isn't anything exclusively wrong with it. It's functional, useful upgrades have been made over the last decade, and unless there is the need to actually construct a new runway, why bother? Why waste taxpayers money like this? They should figure out how to expand TTN first ahead of something like this.

I'm surprised by how some people are so optimistic about this project. This is *New Jersey* we're talking about here & the most corrupt union-based employees in the US. The fact that T1 has come so far so quick is actually pretty incredible. The best you can do is maybe see a new Terminal B by 2040. It just doesn't seem like a priority.


As you can see in the new Airtrain routing (page 16 of the linked PDF) they are very much indeed committed to the new Terminal 2, so much so that the new Terminal B Airtrain station is no where near the current Terminal B. They wouldn't do that unless they were committed. Also as you can seen in this picture the new Terminal B will connect physically to the new Terminal One. The land upon which the new Terminal 2 will be constructed (shaded in blue) is almost entirely being built over existing surface parking lots, and the site of the existing Terminal A which will be torn down once the new Airtrain will be built. This new terminal will be built without disturbing existing operations.

https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Airtrain-EWR-Program-Briefing-Book-V2.pdf


Airtrain is just a proposal as well.

The problem I foresee with that proposal: If the new Airtrain gets up and running before a new terminal B, There isn’t going to be any connection from the train to the old terminal.

At this point it’s all a master plan that can and will be amended as needed.

The only thing that’s happening is a new terminal A will be opening up shortly.

Also to the other posters who haven’t picked up on it, they scrapped terminal 1…it’s going to remain terminal A.


Yes there will be. If you review the AirTrain replacement project documents, you will see the preferred AirTrain replacement alignment includes two elevated walkways to the existing Terminals B and C. Think JFK T5, only WAY longer in the case of Terminal B. It’s definitely a suboptimal solution but in any event would probably be in use for no more than 5 years, for existing B.

There is a middle ground between pie-in-the-sky proposal and shovels in the dirt. The AirTrain and Terminal B replacements are absolutely happening, and PANYNJ documents demonstrate that their respective designs are crystallizing.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6425
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:24 pm

codc10 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
STT757 wrote:

As you can see in the new Airtrain routing (page 16 of the linked PDF) they are very much indeed committed to the new Terminal 2, so much so that the new Terminal B Airtrain station is no where near the current Terminal B. They wouldn't do that unless they were committed. Also as you can seen in this picture the new Terminal B will connect physically to the new Terminal One. The land upon which the new Terminal 2 will be constructed (shaded in blue) is almost entirely being built over existing surface parking lots, and the site of the existing Terminal A which will be torn down once the new Airtrain will be built. This new terminal will be built without disturbing existing operations.

https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Airtrain-EWR-Program-Briefing-Book-V2.pdf


Airtrain is just a proposal as well.

The problem I foresee with that proposal: If the new Airtrain gets up and running before a new terminal B, There isn’t going to be any connection from the train to the old terminal.

At this point it’s all a master plan that can and will be amended as needed.

The only thing that’s happening is a new terminal A will be opening up shortly.

Also to the other posters who haven’t picked up on it, they scrapped terminal 1…it’s going to remain terminal A.


Yes there will be. If you review the AirTrain replacement project documents, you will see the preferred AirTrain replacement alignment includes two elevated walkways to the existing Terminals B and C. Think JFK T5, only WAY longer in the case of Terminal B. It’s definitely a suboptimal solution but in any event would probably be in use for no more than 5 years, for existing B.

There is a middle ground between pie-in-the-sky proposal and shovels in the dirt. The AirTrain and Terminal B replacements are absolutely happening, and PANYNJ documents demonstrate that their respective designs are crystallizing.


Until it’s funded, until a shovel goes into the ground, it is just a plan.

Right now neither of those projects have funded beyond design proposals.

As for walkways, those will be very, very long walkways
 
codc10
Posts: 3152
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:32 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
codc10 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:

Airtrain is just a proposal as well.

The problem I foresee with that proposal: If the new Airtrain gets up and running before a new terminal B, There isn’t going to be any connection from the train to the old terminal.

At this point it’s all a master plan that can and will be amended as needed.

The only thing that’s happening is a new terminal A will be opening up shortly.

Also to the other posters who haven’t picked up on it, they scrapped terminal 1…it’s going to remain terminal A.


Yes there will be. If you review the AirTrain replacement project documents, you will see the preferred AirTrain replacement alignment includes two elevated walkways to the existing Terminals B and C. Think JFK T5, only WAY longer in the case of Terminal B. It’s definitely a suboptimal solution but in any event would probably be in use for no more than 5 years, for existing B.

There is a middle ground between pie-in-the-sky proposal and shovels in the dirt. The AirTrain and Terminal B replacements are absolutely happening, and PANYNJ documents demonstrate that their respective designs are crystallizing.


Until it’s funded, until a shovel goes into the ground, it is just a plan.

Right now neither of those projects have funded beyond design proposals.

As for walkways, those will be very, very long walkways


Agreed and agreed.

With that said, these proposals have advanced through the regulatory process over several years, and are well into the planning stages, as is necessary for projects of this scale and expense.

Nobody is talking about a firm timeline, but to dismiss discussion of major project details that have substantially been decided (location of headhouse, AirTrain replacement alignment, etc.) as mere speculation is disingenuous.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6425
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:41 pm

codc10 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
codc10 wrote:

Yes there will be. If you review the AirTrain replacement project documents, you will see the preferred AirTrain replacement alignment includes two elevated walkways to the existing Terminals B and C. Think JFK T5, only WAY longer in the case of Terminal B. It’s definitely a suboptimal solution but in any event would probably be in use for no more than 5 years, for existing B.

There is a middle ground between pie-in-the-sky proposal and shovels in the dirt. The AirTrain and Terminal B replacements are absolutely happening, and PANYNJ documents demonstrate that their respective designs are crystallizing.


Until it’s funded, until a shovel goes into the ground, it is just a plan.

Right now neither of those projects have funded beyond design proposals.

As for walkways, those will be very, very long walkways


Agreed and agreed.

With that said, these proposals have advanced through the regulatory process over several years, and are well into the planning stages, as is necessary for projects of this scale and expense.

Nobody is talking about a firm timeline, but to dismiss discussion of major project details that have substantially been decided (location of headhouse, AirTrain replacement alignment, etc.) as mere speculation is disingenuous.


Agreed. Newark will get a LGA like remake…Bigger Airside smaller landside
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 3858
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:31 pm

The only place I can see a new T2 going is in front of the current T2, which likely requires tearing down and replacing the T3 garage with a much higher structure in place of the parking lot (EWR's parking in the terminal area is mostly a large carpark) before any replacement for T2 can start. I don't see the Marriott being in the way, but the T3 parking garage is. A new garage is being built in front of Terminal A, but that would not be adequate for the United terminal...and one also has to move in the roadway a lot closer to 1/9. Then one could also route the PATH extension into the airport.

In order (without accounting for a new AirTrain):
1. New T3 garage about 6 levels tall
2. Demolition of existing garage
3. Relocation of roadways
4. New T2.

The earliest likely completion would be around 2033-5.
 
tmu101
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:04 am

Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:06 pm

I'm looking forward to the new terminal opening (and i like they switched the name back to Terminal A :-) ). I was in EWR last week and i didn't think C was horrible but it definitely is getting long in the tooth. Living in DFW Metroplex and often flying AA back to EWR to visit family i CAN'T WAIT for the new terminal - the "banjos" can't be demolished soon enough IMHO (but i will miss them no less).

What i would love to see is how the new terminal A ramp will integrate into the normal taxiway system of the airport. Now that it is long developed i would think there should be some renditions of how this will look (esp how will it affect the FedEx ramp).

Off topic but EWR related - when 4L/22R was extended back in the mid/ late 90s why was concrete used for the extension (both on the north and south side extensions?) And why did the middle portion of the runway remain asphalt? I've always wondered why that was - is there a long term plan to convert the entire runway to concrete? I also never understood the intermittent use of concrete all over the airport (such as the Taxiway P and Taxiway K intersection). Any rhyme or reason for the material differences? Thank you all for the extra insite! :-)
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14439
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:47 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
STT757 wrote:
N649DL wrote:

IIRC, Terminal 2 is only a preliminary prototype that has been hyped up and pushed on these forums because people want to fantasize replacing EWR Terminal B with T2. It's not necessary and I'm still confused as to why users keep obsessing over it.

First of all, should this happen, there seem to be quite a few more projects within the way of getting the T2 project even off the ground. The first is the figuring out whether T1 will expand to 45 gates with UA trying to gain ownership in that terminal seemingly within the last month. Should this happen, it's going to cause a lot of gate-related chaos throughout the airport. Chances are PANYNJ will need to make a decision to let UA move into new T1 and realign their gates in Terminal C to do so and/or UA retracts and stays in Terminal C (recall they pulled out of "A" during the pandemic and B6 moved it.)

Next up before any kind of T2 upgrade would be dealing with the AirTrain and PATH expansion to EWR, demolishing of the 1985-built Marriott and existing Terminal A. As I said before, don't expect a new "T2" to any real priority at the moment because there isn't anything exclusively wrong with it. It's functional, useful upgrades have been made over the last decade, and unless there is the need to actually construct a new runway, why bother? Why waste taxpayers money like this? They should figure out how to expand TTN first ahead of something like this.

I'm surprised by how some people are so optimistic about this project. This is *New Jersey* we're talking about here & the most corrupt union-based employees in the US. The fact that T1 has come so far so quick is actually pretty incredible. The best you can do is maybe see a new Terminal B by 2040. It just doesn't seem like a priority.


As you can see in the new Airtrain routing (page 16 of the linked PDF) they are very much indeed committed to the new Terminal 2, so much so that the new Terminal B Airtrain station is no where near the current Terminal B. They wouldn't do that unless they were committed. Also as you can seen in this picture the new Terminal B will connect physically to the new Terminal One. The land upon which the new Terminal 2 will be constructed (shaded in blue) is almost entirely being built over existing surface parking lots, and the site of the existing Terminal A which will be torn down once the new Airtrain will be built. This new terminal will be built without disturbing existing operations.

https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Airtrain-EWR-Program-Briefing-Book-V2.pdf


Airtrain is just a proposal as well.

The problem I foresee with that proposal: If the new Airtrain gets up and running before a new terminal B, There isn’t going to be any connection from the train to the old terminal.

At this point it’s all a master plan that can and will be amended as needed.

The only thing that’s happening is a new terminal A will be opening up shortly.

Also to the other posters who haven’t picked up on it, they scrapped terminal 1…it’s going to remain terminal A.


It’s funding is PFC’s, the FAA is reviewing the environmental studies right now in the approval process. The Port Authority solicited bids for its construction, they now have narrowed that list to four bidders.

The next step is to receive FAA approval, award the contract to one of the four bidders and break ground which is expected 2nd qtr. of 2022 with the project completed by 2026.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/newark-airport-operator-picks-shortlist-for-2-1-billion-airtrain-project-11620237602
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Jerseyguy
Posts: 2258
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:05 pm

Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Sun Jun 27, 2021 5:52 am

codc10 wrote:
Yes there will be. If you review the AirTrain replacement project documents, you will see the preferred AirTrain replacement alignment includes two elevated walkways to the existing Terminals B and C. Think JFK T5, only WAY longer in the case of Terminal B. It’s definitely a suboptimal solution but in any event would probably be in use for no more than 5 years, for existing B.


5 years for a walkway that makes JFK T5 look like a walk to the end of the driveway to get the mail..sounds about right for PANYNJ. This is why living between EWR and PHL, I chose PHL for my home airport.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14439
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:06 pm

Jerseyguy wrote:
codc10 wrote:
Yes there will be. If you review the AirTrain replacement project documents, you will see the preferred AirTrain replacement alignment includes two elevated walkways to the existing Terminals B and C. Think JFK T5, only WAY longer in the case of Terminal B. It’s definitely a suboptimal solution but in any event would probably be in use for no more than 5 years, for existing B.


5 years for a walkway that makes JFK T5 look like a walk to the end of the driveway to get the mail..sounds about right for PANYNJ. This is why living between EWR and PHL, I chose PHL for my home airport.


Is it going to be longer than the walk from the new Metro station at Dulles to the terminal?
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
N649DL
Posts: 1178
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:43 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
The only place I can see a new T2 going is in front of the current T2, which likely requires tearing down and replacing the T3 garage with a much higher structure in place of the parking lot (EWR's parking in the terminal area is mostly a large carpark) before any replacement for T2 can start. I don't see the Marriott being in the way, but the T3 parking garage is. A new garage is being built in front of Terminal A, but that would not be adequate for the United terminal...and one also has to move in the roadway a lot closer to 1/9. Then one could also route the PATH extension into the airport.

In order (without accounting for a new AirTrain):
1. New T3 garage about 6 levels tall
2. Demolition of existing garage
3. Relocation of roadways
4. New T2.

The earliest likely completion would be around 2033-5.


It would be pretty sad if they demolished the Terminal C current garage. That garage and walkway to the terminal were completed as part of the "Global Gateway" back in 2002, but I think this was one of the last pieces of the project to open up. Definitely well designed. The A & B lots are like parking in the long-term lot at DEN where you have to take a screenshot of where your car is parked to remember where it is when you return.

The roadway issue is at present very confusing and involves a lot of lane switching with bad signage. Especially to get on I-78 Westbound. Even to find the Pulaski Skyway driving on I-9 out of EWR is a mess. Unfortunately, a lot of those interchanges are rather new but just very poorly designed. Frankly, if they demolished that whole roadway area in favor of a new runway and put a new interchange near where the prison is, I'd be happy. The problem isn't so much driving to EWR, it's more leaving it (oddly enough).
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1819
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: How would a new EWR terminal 2 work out and what would a new EWR terminal 3 look like?

Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:08 am

codc10 wrote:
EWR is a third rail on this forum, so get ready for some fireworks on this thread.

N649DL wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
While the new terminal A is still being built, I saw a design of a new EWR terminal 2 to replace terminal B and I've been so curious to find out what a new terminal 3 would look like to replace terminal C in the future. I also saw the layout of the new EWR airtrain and where the new terminals in the future would be located. Any thoughts?

https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-con ... ook-V2.pdf
https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/uploa ... ession.pdf


IIRC, Terminal 2 is only a preliminary prototype that has been hyped up and pushed on these forums because people want to fantasize replacing EWR Terminal B with T2. It's not necessary and I'm still confused as to why users keep obsessing over it.

First of all, should this happen, there seem to be quite a few more projects within the way of getting the T2 project even off the ground. The first is the figuring out whether T1 will expand to 45 gates with UA trying to gain ownership in that terminal seemingly within the last month. Should this happen, it's going to cause a lot of gate-related chaos throughout the airport. Chances are PANYNJ will need to make a decision to let UA move into new T1 and realign their gates in Terminal C to do so and/or UA retracts and stays in Terminal C (recall they pulled out of "A" during the pandemic and B6 moved it.)

Next up before any kind of T2 upgrade would be dealing with the AirTrain and PATH expansion to EWR, demolishing of the 1985-built Marriott and existing Terminal A. As I said before, don't expect a new "T2" to any real priority at the moment because there isn't anything exclusively wrong with it. It's functional, useful upgrades have been made over the last decade, and unless there is the need to actually construct a new runway, why bother? Why waste taxpayers money like this? They should figure out how to expand TTN first ahead of something like this.

I'm surprised by how some people are so optimistic about this project. This is *New Jersey* we're talking about here & the most corrupt union-based employees in the US. The fact that T1 has come so far so quick is actually pretty incredible. The best you can do is maybe see a new Terminal B by 2040. It just doesn't seem like a priority.


A lot of conjecture here, but a few facts:

- The current Terminal B is approaching the end of its design/useful life: it was built in 1973 and substantially upgraded in 1996, with a few small-scale projects in the last 10 years. By the time ground is broken on a replacement it will be well into its sixth decade of operations in nearly its original form
- The current Terminal B has some significant facility constraints, e.g.: no dual-bridge loading for widebodies; small holdrooms; limited airline lounge space; insufficient pushback/startup taxiway space; tow-in gates; narrow alleys; old systems; extremely limited retail space (this is key… international terminals typically generate outsize retail revenue per square foot); among other things. These prevent it from being comparable to first-tier international terminals at other airports
- The master plan indeed includes a Terminal B replacement situated to the west of the current facility, which indeed involves demolition of the current Marriott hotel, which itself is nearly 40 years old
- The AirTrain replacement alignment contemplates the proposed location of the Terminal B replacement at the westerly location
- Building out the Terminal B replacement west of the current facility allows construction to be carried out while the existing facility is operational, with a phased opening, much like the LGA redevelopment or the EWR Terminal A replacement
- As airlines (especially United) upgauge EWR flights to larger equipment with greater wingspans, more linear terminal space is needed to handle the same number of flights; plus additional gates are needed to future-proof the airport should technology or airfield/airspace configuration changes allow incrementally higher capacity
- Meaningful TTN airfield expansion is a non-starter, and because it’s not a PANYNJ facility, what happens there has no direct bearing on EWR, and vice versa. While this is not a TTN thread, it’s worth noting that the biggest facility constraint there is runway length, and a lengthening project to support increased airline service will be met with enormous NIMBY pressure
- PANYNJ is not making any long-term, strategic decisions based on what its tenant airlines did during April/May 2020. That would be monumentally stupid
- The notion that United intends to cede ground at EWR is a pipe dream


If they do indeed demolish the Marriot, where will the new one go?

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