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asuflyer
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AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:11 pm

Although the issue has been well known in the industry and on the forum that AA would have a difficult summer in regards to crewing flights, AA is now canceling hundreds of flights due to lack of crew availability. The cancellations primarily affect the 737 and 737MAX8 fleet.

https://viewfromthewing.com/american-ai ... of-pilots/
 
SRQLOT
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:20 pm

We all knew this was coming, my flights for August just got moved around on AA, figures right after the announced Austin expansion. With Delta holiday issues, Southwest with their issues it’s going to me be a long summer for anyone traveling. Flightsare too packed to even be put on standby on something else. Other then my August trip into September I’m very weary of booking anything else until late fall. Plus I can’t really afford anything else right now lol.
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jfklganyc
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:45 pm

The article annoys me

AA did what it had to do. Like the rest of the world, it is now scrambling.

If AA is at fault, it is for building a ridiculously ambitious schedule. But you cant fault them for retiring dozens of older planes and essentially flushing (and displacing) thousands of pilots that now need retraining
 
planecane
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:17 pm

This explains a change to an itinerary I have in August. Flying to/from FLL through DFW and the return leg was a 737-800 but was changed to an A321.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:58 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
The article annoys me

AA did what it had to do. Like the rest of the world, it is now scrambling.

If AA is at fault, it is for building a ridiculously ambitious schedule. But you cant fault them for retiring dozens of older planes and essentially flushing (and displacing) thousands of pilots that now need retraining


I agree. Most of that author's articles about AA are very sensationalistic. The reality is that AA is behind in pilot training so they are reducing the schedule for the next week or so. Most of the cancellations are being done well in advance.
 
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kngkyle
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:31 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
But you cant fault them for retiring dozens of older planes and essentially flushing (and displacing) thousands of pilots that now need retraining


??? You can't fault them for making bad decisions? What the heck can you fault them for if not this?
 
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par13del
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:54 pm

So if enough people put out that the travel rebound will be later rather than sooner can we really blame the humans who run the airlines for falling for the rhetoric or pessimistic assumptions of the various experts?
Perhaps the next time the panic sets in and they decide to throw money at the situation they will put in place more controls on how the money is spent? Since it is tax payers money I am not optimistic on that one.
 
kbmiflyer
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:13 pm

Cancelling about 100 (not hundreds) flights today out of probably around 3,000 mainline flights . Certainly a problem but not nearly as large as Gary would like us to believe.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:25 pm

There are labor challenges impacting almost every industry and business at the time.

Some simply due to the government paying more than the employer, but in other cases like AA the airlines and anything in the hospitality tourism and travel industry it’s simply the bullwhip effect.
 
tphuang
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:35 pm

Similar to DL on those holiday weekend, AA simply scheduled too many flights. Of course, DL has now cut its schedule down to 30% less than 2019, so they probably won't have this problem. AA is going to piss off a lot of people who are going to get their flights canceled and changed.

Also, I'd be curious if B6 and ULCCs will also have this problem in July and August, because they are running more capacity than 2019.
 
QF7
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:49 pm

I was booked in August for the midnight red eye PDX-DFW, which has been a long-time flight. It was scheduled as a 737. I just got an email advising I’m changed to a 0550 departure on an A321.

Still, points for being proactive.
QF7
 
slowrambler
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:56 pm

Schedule changes in June for flights in August is hardly a big deal.

I had an AUS-DFW cancelled on two days' notice this week, which was irritating but possible to deal with. But that's the sort of thing that will upset people if not handled well.
 
32andBelow
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:26 am

Why did airlines even fire anyone since they wound up getting all the salaries insured by the gov
 
alasizon
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:31 am

32andBelow wrote:
Why did airlines even fire anyone since they wound up getting all the salaries insured by the gov


Only about 75% of salaries were covered by the PSP grants. It isn't the terminated/voluntary resignations that are causing the issues, rather displacements.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
AAPramugari14
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:38 am

asuflyer wrote:
Although the issue has been well known in the industry and on the forum that AA would have a difficult summer in regards to crewing flights, AA is now canceling hundreds of flights due to lack of crew availability. The cancellations primarily affect the 737 and 737MAX8 fleet.

https://viewfromthewing.com/american-ai ... of-pilots/


This article is such an exaggeration of what the actual issue is. We're past 2019 numbers in terms of pax and flights and in a very short amount of time. Almost every airline in the US is dealing with the same issues There is a long line to get requalified and things cannot happen overnight. You also have to fly to stay current which didn't happen for many who were furloughed. Lets not even speak on the amount of people who moved from retired fleets to the current fleets. The next couple of weeks will be tight but things will right itself in due time.
 
32andBelow
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:14 am

alasizon wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Why did airlines even fire anyone since they wound up getting all the salaries insured by the gov


Only about 75% of salaries were covered by the PSP grants. It isn't the terminated/voluntary resignations that are causing the issues, rather displacements.

Ah yah I knew displacing all the crews was gonna be dumb. They should have just left everyone qualified where they were. Unless they’re fleet was getting perm retired
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:05 am

32andBelow wrote:
alasizon wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Why did airlines even fire anyone since they wound up getting all the salaries insured by the gov


Only about 75% of salaries were covered by the PSP grants. It isn't the terminated/voluntary resignations that are causing the issues, rather displacements.

Ah yah I knew displacing all the crews was gonna be dumb. They should have just left everyone qualified where they were. Unless they’re fleet was getting perm retired



They cant do that.

Entire fleets were parked.

Those pilots then bid for new equipment and push the other guys out. It ends up being a system wide flush and rebid. The bottom guys without assignments are furloughed
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:08 am

AA is not wrong or at fault for retiring planes. They had too to do that to survive.

AA does have totally control over their scheduling however if they cant crew these planes they shouldn't have scheduled them or need to proactively re arrange schedules so customers have some notice. That's on them if they legit have more flights scheduled then crew
 
aileron1999
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:26 pm

AAPramugari14 wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
Although the issue has been well known in the industry and on the forum that AA would have a difficult summer in regards to crewing flights, AA is now canceling hundreds of flights due to lack of crew availability. The cancellations primarily affect the 737 and 737MAX8 fleet.

https://viewfromthewing.com/american-ai ... of-pilots/


This article is such an exaggeration of what the actual issue is. We're past 2019 numbers in terms of pax and flights and in a very short amount of time. Almost every airline in the US is dealing with the same issues There is a long line to get requalified and things cannot happen overnight. You also have to fly to stay current which didn't happen for many who were furloughed. Lets not even speak on the amount of people who moved from retired fleets to the current fleets. The next couple of weeks will be tight but things will right itself in due time.



Passenger traffic is not anywhere near 2019 levels yet. We are still down about 25%. All of the issues you mentioned are well known and can be planned for. The fact is AA has scheduled more flights than they knew they could fly and their passengers are going to pay the price for poor planning.
 
PI4EVR
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:47 pm

A neighbor is a F/A and she's had 3 weeks of scheduled trips rearranged due to cancellations. At our hometown station TPA, they'd had at least one or two cancellations a day the last 2 weeks. A morning CLT-TPA-CLT turn, MIA-TPA, DCA and DFW an almost daily occurrence. She was flying last week and TPA had 3 cancellations that day, with almost 500 passengers to protect with every flight booked to capacity and little alternative available capacity to protect them on. Flights to/from FL are packed. She was a "must ride" deadhead but says the airport staff are beat up everyday with issues finding space to rebook.
 
32andBelow
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:02 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
alasizon wrote:

Only about 75% of salaries were covered by the PSP grants. It isn't the terminated/voluntary resignations that are causing the issues, rather displacements.

Ah yah I knew displacing all the crews was gonna be dumb. They should have just left everyone qualified where they were. Unless they’re fleet was getting perm retired



They cant do that.

Entire fleets were parked.

Those pilots then bid for new equipment and push the other guys out. It ends up being a system wide flush and rebid. The bottom guys without assignments are furloughed

At the end of the day is retraining half your pilots twice going to be cheaper than just paying them minimum hours for a year with the government money? And they couldn’t even furlough anyone cus they got 3 bailouts.

Like at the beginning when delta was cancelling a220 flights cus of all the displacements. It was totally crazy
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:01 pm

32andBelow wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Ah yah I knew displacing all the crews was gonna be dumb. They should have just left everyone qualified where they were. Unless they’re fleet was getting perm retired



They cant do that.

Entire fleets were parked.

Those pilots then bid for new equipment and push the other guys out. It ends up being a system wide flush and rebid. The bottom guys without assignments are furloughed

At the end of the day is retraining half your pilots twice going to be cheaper than just paying them minimum hours for a year with the government money? And they couldn’t even furlough anyone cus they got 3 bailouts.

Like at the beginning when delta was cancelling a220 flights cus of all the displacements. It was totally crazy


The Planes didn’t exist anymore. The positions just didn’t exist.

Triggers a displacement bid.

As for the bailouts they never knew how many they were going to get or when they were going to come through.

Pelosi told AA to hold off layoffs in October as a bailout was imminent. (AA furloughed anyway) That bailout was shrunken and passed in December.

It was a very messy year.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:16 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
AA is not wrong or at fault for retiring planes. They had too to do that to survive.

AA does have totally control over their scheduling however if they cant crew these planes they shouldn't have scheduled them or need to proactively re arrange schedules so customers have some notice. That's on them if they legit have more flights scheduled then crew


I’m not sure AA ever built a schedule they didn’t believe they could fly. But the margins have got to be pretty thin, especially as far as training. Something like a sim going down for a few days that would be a non-issue in normal times might not be something AA can absorb right now.
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Varsity1
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:17 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
The article annoys me

AA did what it had to do. Like the rest of the world, it is now scrambling.

If AA is at fault, it is for building a ridiculously ambitious schedule. But you cant fault them for retiring dozens of older planes and essentially flushing (and displacing) thousands of pilots that now need retraining



AA is 100% at fault.

Management was too proud to come to a non-furlough agreement for the pilots like United did.

All those pilots (around 2,000) went unqualled. Now they are paying for it.

It will take them most of the year to catch up.
 
TUSAA
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:08 pm

The pilot shortage is only half the problem. DFW is out of control with no manpower and infrastructure issues. Hundreds of agents and rampers have been hired over the last few months but many have already quit....too much work and abuse from passangers and too hot on the ramp. They can make more at Buc-ee's and be in the air condition. The problem now is there isn't that many business travelers mostly all VFR and family vacations and with that comes far more baggage than before along with more domestic widebodies which eat up too much manpower due to the massive amount of connecting baggage coming off them. Too many passengers arriving in the morning and their connecting flight doesn't leave for 3 or 4 hours...no room to store all those hundreds of bags. The bagroom belts can't keep up and the systems are always jammed up or shutting down. People are checking in for their mainline flights at the Envoy ticket counters at the E and B terminals due to shorter TSA lines, but Envoy isn't staffed to handle hundreds of bags that need to be taken over to A..C..and D. Many other manning issues due to LUS managers trying to run DFW like it's a America West spoke station.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:09 pm

100 or 3000 flights, not a huge deal. Industry after industry is finding issues restarting. Unfortunately, one cannot just turn an economy back on.
AA will get the pilots trained (as will DL and others in the same bind).

If it takes a year, it takes a year to train all the pilots. The reality is money isn't free. This economy isn't even close to fully operational again and it will be a shock getting there (evictions, ceasing overly generous unemployment). But the good news is people are traveling again.

I'm happy fares are going up. :)

Lightsaber
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:50 pm

Exactly, I don’t think maybe people appreciate the challenges imposed on supply chains including labor and materials that were caused by the rapid shutdown and now the rapid reboot.

Anything that has lead times is out of synch currently with demand.

One of my customers currently is trying to run a plant and trying to fill over 500 vacant positions and currently running at absurd amounts of Overtime. They can’t even hire fast enough to keep up with attrition and people are quitting because they are getting burnt out. They can just walk into anywhere and get another job right now.

Wife and I went to a restaurant last night was shocked it was empty, was empty because they had no cook...on a summer Saturday.

It’s wild times out there and like said while restrictions are over, it’s going to take 12-24 months for the labor market and supply chains to recover from this bullwhip.
 
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Polot
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:05 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
The article annoys me

AA did what it had to do. Like the rest of the world, it is now scrambling.

If AA is at fault, it is for building a ridiculously ambitious schedule. But you cant fault them for retiring dozens of older planes and essentially flushing (and displacing) thousands of pilots that now need retraining



AA is 100% at fault.

Management was too proud to come to a non-furlough agreement for the pilots like United did.

All those pilots (around 2,000) went unqualled. Now they are paying for it.

It will take them most of the year to catch up.


You don’t seem to understand. Entire fleet types have been removed from the system. AA no longer flies any E190s, 757s, 767s, and A330s. What is AA suppose to do with the pilots who flew them- fire them? (They can’t do that). They are qualified on a plane AA doesn’t fly anymore.

So those pilots bid for other planes. But then those pilot rosters get over staffed, so the junior pilots on the other fleets have to go somewhere else, and so on until the most junior pilots get furloughed. Training can only train so many pilots at once (while also keeping current pilots qualified).

UA is least affected out of the US3 not because of the agreement they came up with their pilots but because they have retired fewer planes/fleet types than DL and AA.
 
alasizon
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:11 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Exactly, I don’t think maybe people appreciate the challenges imposed on supply chains including labor and materials that were caused by the rapid shutdown and now the rapid reboot.

Anything that has lead times is out of synch currently with demand.

One of my customers currently is trying to run a plant and trying to fill over 500 vacant positions and currently running at absurd amounts of Overtime. They can’t even hire fast enough to keep up with attrition and people are quitting because they are getting burnt out. They can just walk into anywhere and get another job right now.

Wife and I went to a restaurant last night was shocked it was empty, was empty because they had no cook...on a summer Saturday.

It’s wild times out there and like said while restrictions are over, it’s going to take 12-24 months for the labor market and supply chains to recover from this bullwhip.


Lead times for parts right now are killer - I have vendors that are out of stock until September for parts that we need to repair eGSE chargers; transmission parts for some of our bag tugs are seeing three week lead times. Pre-COVID, I could those same parts next-day or two-day. Heck, there was even a paint shortage to the point that Sherwin Williams was quoting 3-4 week lead times for common paints.

AA's issue is compounded by the fact that DFW has had pretty much twice weekly weather meltdowns burning a LOT of crew time and a lot of reserves across all bases. Combine that with a bad maintenance day and it just doesn't recover well.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
IFlyOff
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:27 pm

TUSAA wrote:
The pilot shortage is only half the problem. DFW is out of control with no manpower and infrastructure issues. Hundreds of agents and rampers have been hired over the last few months but many have already quit....too much work and abuse from passangers and too hot on the ramp. They can make more at Buc-ee's and be in the air condition. The problem now is there isn't that many business travelers mostly all VFR and family vacations and with that comes far more baggage than before along with more domestic widebodies which eat up too much manpower due to the massive amount of connecting baggage coming off them. Too many passengers arriving in the morning and their connecting flight doesn't leave for 3 or 4 hours...no room to store all those hundreds of bags. The bagroom belts can't keep up and the systems are always jammed up or shutting down. People are checking in for their mainline flights at the Envoy ticket counters at the E and B terminals due to shorter TSA lines, but Envoy isn't staffed to handle hundreds of bags that need to be taken over to A..C..and D. Many other manning issues due to LUS managers trying to run DFW like it's a America West spoke station.



Under-staffing at airlines and other frontline jobs is the new post-COVID pandemic. Don't blame AA for what all airlines are gong through. United is paying a $500 bounty to employees if they recruit CS and ramp employees in DEN and they stay 6 months. Contract jobs and in house jobs are going unfilled. Airport restaurants and shops are operating reduced hours because they can't staff up. It's ugly everywhere. Summer of '21 has already and will be ugly for passengers and employees alike.
 
32andBelow
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:40 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


They cant do that.

Entire fleets were parked.

Those pilots then bid for new equipment and push the other guys out. It ends up being a system wide flush and rebid. The bottom guys without assignments are furloughed

At the end of the day is retraining half your pilots twice going to be cheaper than just paying them minimum hours for a year with the government money? And they couldn’t even furlough anyone cus they got 3 bailouts.

Like at the beginning when delta was cancelling a220 flights cus of all the displacements. It was totally crazy


The Planes didn’t exist anymore. The positions just didn’t exist.

Triggers a displacement bid.

As for the bailouts they never knew how many they were going to get or when they were going to come through.

Pelosi told AA to hold off layoffs in October as a bailout was imminent. (AA furloughed anyway) That bailout was shrunken and passed in December.

It was a very messy year.

I said to re train the retired fleets. But they should never have displaced people off of 737. The flip side was that if they didn’t get bailed out and if it didn’t recover they were going to go bankrupt anyways. Anyone could have foreseen that disqualifying people would have just bit them in the ass a year later, and here we are!
 
travaz
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:07 pm

Don't forget AA has to live with the CBA that dictates what happens with downgrades and reassignments ETC.

Last week I was going RNO-PHX on AA Eagle (sky west) and there was a 4 hour delay (this is at 1 PM) and the only thing open was a bar. There was no food available except chips and bagged bar snacks. Everyone was understaffed, I will say none of the many passengers got angry or upset so the whole scene was resigned patience, and screaming kids.
 
toga998
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:51 pm

Its summertime. Who wants to work when they can use their flight bennies and hit up the beach?
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:55 pm

ABC News Article is blaming SICK CALLS....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/a ... d=msedgntp

I can easily believe that this can be a factor, as well. They dumped the most junior people, leaving crews that have seniority benefits like days off, vacation time, etc. And they likely intend to use them. They do have families and rest needs, just like anyone else.
 
32andBelow
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:58 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
ABC News Article is blaming SICK CALLS....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/a ... d=msedgntp

I can easily believe that this can be a factor, as well. They dumped the most junior people, leaving crews that have seniority benefits like days off, vacation time, etc. And they likely intend to use them. They do have families and rest needs, just like anyone else.

People have been earning a lot of sick leave while they have been working less during the pandemic. Not sure how AA does sick leave but I believe it
 
AmericanAir88
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:15 am

Lines have been crazy everywhere for AA. DEN Check in and my flight was even delayed due to short staffing. Caused me to miss my connection in CLT and the rebooking line was long due to once again short staffing. I know however AA isnt the only airline dealing with this. The worst offender are call centers for the airlines.

Hope things improve. JFK was doing fine and I hope AA adds more to it.
 
Varsity1
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:49 am

Polot wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
The article annoys me

AA did what it had to do. Like the rest of the world, it is now scrambling.

If AA is at fault, it is for building a ridiculously ambitious schedule. But you cant fault them for retiring dozens of older planes and essentially flushing (and displacing) thousands of pilots that now need retraining



AA is 100% at fault.

Management was too proud to come to a non-furlough agreement for the pilots like United did.

All those pilots (around 2,000) went unqualled. Now they are paying for it.

It will take them most of the year to catch up.


You don’t seem to understand. Entire fleet types have been removed from the system. AA no longer flies any E190s, 757s, 767s, and A330s. What is AA suppose to do with the pilots who flew them- fire them? (They can’t do that). They are qualified on a plane AA doesn’t fly anymore.

So those pilots bid for other planes. But then those pilot rosters get over staffed, so the junior pilots on the other fleets have to go somewhere else, and so on until the most junior pilots get furloughed. Training can only train so many pilots at once (while also keeping current pilots qualified).

UA is least affected out of the US3 not because of the agreement they came up with their pilots but because they have retired fewer planes/fleet types than DL and AA.


You're talking about something that happened in June of last year.

All the pilots on those fleets were displaced 12 months ago. AA stopped training to save 'costs'. The puzzle palace has been silent until the sudden "Oh no" two months ago.

I understand it well, I'm in the middle of it.
 
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BroadwayLimited
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:24 am

Hey even my local Chick-Filet is closing early at 8PM. Staffing shortage!
Signed up for Delta and Eastern Frequent Flyer Programs August 30, 1981.
 
32andBelow
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:37 am

Time for the airlines to increase their pay or benefits to get people. Make non revving good again to start
 
Ziyulu
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:53 am

The sad thing is I feel US airlines tend to be very short-sighted. Look at the retirement of aircraft, the charging of fees, refusal to order new planes, etc.
 
jeffrey1970
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:54 am

How differently did American handle the downturn in travel after 9/11, and the 2008 recession versus today?
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
joeblow10
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:04 am

32andBelow wrote:
Time for the airlines to increase their pay or benefits to get people. Make non revving good again to start


The problem is most of your folks who really could “see” the flight benefits as an incentive to top off lackluster pay would never be able to afford to use them to go on vacation - because of the pay.

The pilots and the FAs aren’t the long term issue. It’s a short term training backlog.

Airlines are between a rock and a hard place. Bring back (likely) unionized labor in house at the airport and have to have many more on payroll - or continue the outsource trend (a la DGS) for much cheaper, but with many less willing applicants, especially when you don’t even offer flight bennies.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:12 am

32andBelow wrote:
Time for the airlines to increase their pay or benefits to get people. Make non revving good again to start

It's not a pay issue that is limiting availability of pilots. See the OP's original link. Paying 20% more isn't going to turn somebody into a 737 pilot overnight. Few commercial pilots have the option of reliably making more in an alternate carrier. (See how few pilots took DL's early out offer.) The scale of the displacement bid is very disruptive due to the retirement of multiple fleet types.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:18 am

jeffrey1970 wrote:
How differently did American handle the downturn in travel after 9/11, and the 2008 recession versus today?


The 2008 recession caused traffic to drop by about 10%. 9/11 caused a drop of 30%. In April last year, traffic was down 90%. While 9/11 was a shocking and horrific event, the impact it had on the airlines was - in fact - less than the Coronavirus pandemic. Because of that, it’s hard to draw parallels between how the airlines have handled the past year compared to previous crises.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
alasizon
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:35 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Time for the airlines to increase their pay or benefits to get people. Make non revving good again to start

It's not a pay issue that is limiting availability of pilots. See the OP's original link. Paying 20% more isn't going to turn somebody into a 737 pilot overnight. Few commercial pilots have the option of reliably making more in an alternate carrier. (See how few pilots took DL's early out offer.) The scale of the displacement bid is very disruptive due to the retirement of multiple fleet types.


Even setting pilots aside (which is the reason for the cancelations), ground staffing shortages aren't due to pay either (sans a few low unemployment cities and the lowest paying third party jobs), it's simply that training takes time and when people feel overworked, they leave thereby exacerbating the problem. Plus a lot of people joined the industry when it was depressed and easy, now that the actual workload of the job is back, they are gone.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
32andBelow
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:08 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Time for the airlines to increase their pay or benefits to get people. Make non revving good again to start

It's not a pay issue that is limiting availability of pilots. See the OP's original link. Paying 20% more isn't going to turn somebody into a 737 pilot overnight. Few commercial pilots have the option of reliably making more in an alternate carrier. (See how few pilots took DL's early out offer.) The scale of the displacement bid is very disruptive due to the retirement of multiple fleet types.

Well reading everything the major problem seems to be the ground staff. The flight crew seems temporary. (I think they could have avoided it, but they didn’t).
 
32andBelow
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:09 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
jeffrey1970 wrote:
How differently did American handle the downturn in travel after 9/11, and the 2008 recession versus today?


The 2008 recession caused traffic to drop by about 10%. 9/11 caused a drop of 30%. In April last year, traffic was down 90%. While 9/11 was a shocking and horrific event, the impact it had on the airlines was - in fact - less than the Coronavirus pandemic. Because of that, it’s hard to draw parallels between how the airlines have handled the past year compared to previous crises.

But they were bailed out…3 times.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:38 am

However decisions were made based on unknown assumptions of recovery and unknown certainty of bailouts in both terms of timing and amount.

This entire industry deserves a free pass for 2021 after undergone the most disruptive black swan event possibly ever. It’s actually pretty remarkable they even in the position they are all considering with how much money they were burning through in Q2 and Q3 2020.
 
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kngkyle
Posts: 521
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:48 am

Final tally is over 300 flights cancelled this weekend. Monday already has over 100 cancellations and 77 for Tuesday so far. Lot of apologists here for AAs poor decision making.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:53 am

Not an apologist...heck I barely ever fly AA and out of over 400 DL flights vs about 5 AA flights in the past few years trying to put things in perspective.

This is the most frustrating thing many of us are dealing with across many industries right now is the issues of trying to scale / ramp things back up again. The economy just can’t go on/off again with a switch.....

Customers and clients need to understand how difficult the past 15 months were and businesses had to make decisions on how to survive based on unknown future scenarios.

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