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FSDan
Posts: 3480
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:45 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
It’s a good point. They should fly more domestic wide bodies to help move people. And also so they can keep international crews current and ready to go


AA's flying MIA-LAX and JFK entirely on 777s this summer, as well as having more widebodies than usual between other hubs and to major spokes like LAS and MCO.


FSDan, I know you're a data guy. What was AA's widebody utilization in June vs. narrowbody? What was the avg number of hours flown (flown, not paid for) for widebody pilots vs. narrowbody pilots? Do you really want to argue AA is doing all it can?


I'm not arguing that AA's scheduling the maximum possible; I was just pointing out that they're scheduling significantly more domestic widebodies than they typically do. I suspect that if they thought they could be covering costs and bringing in additional revenue by flying more domestic widebodies, they'd be doing it.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5701
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:46 pm

FSDan wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
FSDan wrote:

AA's flying MIA-LAX and JFK entirely on 777s this summer, as well as having more widebodies than usual between other hubs and to major spokes like LAS and MCO.


FSDan, I know you're a data guy. What was AA's widebody utilization in June vs. narrowbody? What was the avg number of hours flown (flown, not paid for) for widebody pilots vs. narrowbody pilots? Do you really want to argue AA is doing all it can?


I'm not arguing that AA's scheduling the maximum possible; I was just pointing out that they're scheduling significantly more domestic widebodies than they typically do. I suspect that if they thought they could be covering costs and bringing in additional revenue by flying more domestic widebodies, they'd be doing it.
it also would have helped a lot with this unnecessary crew shuffle just leaving people qualified in the big equipment
 
USAirKid
Posts: 884
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:05 am

32andBelow wrote:
FSDan wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

FSDan, I know you're a data guy. What was AA's widebody utilization in June vs. narrowbody? What was the avg number of hours flown (flown, not paid for) for widebody pilots vs. narrowbody pilots? Do you really want to argue AA is doing all it can?


I'm not arguing that AA's scheduling the maximum possible; I was just pointing out that they're scheduling significantly more domestic widebodies than they typically do. I suspect that if they thought they could be covering costs and bringing in additional revenue by flying more domestic widebodies, they'd be doing it.
it also would have helped a lot with this unnecessary crew shuffle just leaving people qualified in the big equipment


Except AA retired the A330, 767, and 757 as a result of the pandemic. Their union contract requires a rebid for the pilots displaced because of that retirement, which then can cause more displacements, etc.

Even hypothetically if the airline did declare an act of god, didn't get sued by the union over it, what were they supposed to do with the A330, 767 and 757 pilots? Just pay them indefinitely until they decide to retire?

Its really easy to look at these things at the high level and say "oh they should've done x, y, z" without looking at the resulting effects from doing x, y, and z." AA had lots of bad options and no good ones. So they chose a bad option.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5701
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:14 am

USAirKid wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
FSDan wrote:

I'm not arguing that AA's scheduling the maximum possible; I was just pointing out that they're scheduling significantly more domestic widebodies than they typically do. I suspect that if they thought they could be covering costs and bringing in additional revenue by flying more domestic widebodies, they'd be doing it.
it also would have helped a lot with this unnecessary crew shuffle just leaving people qualified in the big equipment


Except AA retired the A330, 767, and 757 as a result of the pandemic. Their union contract requires a rebid for the pilots displaced because of that retirement, which then can cause more displacements, etc.

Even hypothetically if the airline did declare an act of god, didn't get sued by the union over it, what were they supposed to do with the A330, 767 and 757 pilots? Just pay them indefinitely until they decide to retire?

Its really easy to look at these things at the high level and say "oh they should've done x, y, z" without looking at the resulting effects from doing x, y, and z." AA had lots of bad options and no good ones. So they chose a bad option.

They never had to displace people off the smallest equipment. Displacing people off 737 or a320 to furlough was just really bad planning.

They could have just had people bid to make the remaining pilot groups bigger
 
USAirKid
Posts: 884
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:17 am

trooper508 wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
Woofbite wrote:
I'm not sure top management is in much pain. They raked in hundreds of millions of dollars in advance ticket sales for the bloated schedule. Somehow most of those passengers will be accommodated on something eventually and even refunds are given in future credit. Very little cash will be returned becasue passenges will be given some excuse that makes their expenses non-reimbursable. AA may give them a few thousand advantage miles as a courtesy.

Bad customer service is pretty much immaterial since flights are full anyway and due to single carrier control of most markets, passengers have little hope of avoiding a certain carrier even if they try.



Don't think that top management doesn't pay attention to these sorts of things. They're not going to get down into the operational weeds, but they'll adjust future plans to prevent these sorts of things from happening.

I'd have to go look it up but Doug Parker is on record of saying he has scars from the US-AW system merger that went very badly. Those lessons made it into the US-AA system merger which was designed in a completely different way and went much more smoothly.


But what is top management doing for the pax dealing with the here and now? Relaxing or adjusting policies to help out bc of poor operational planning and selling full schedules they can’t honor? Example: at 4 pm (or so) earlier this week. kid’s 1250am next morning flight was delayed until 7 am. Too late for any other options on AA. She couldn’t take that bc of work. Contacted AA on Twitter bc phone wait is stupid to see if AA could help w other flights or provide a hotel. AA responded that next day was only thing available and, if she wanted a hotel, only airport staff could help so she should make her way to the airport. She was expected to take Uber/train/whatever to airport around 4pm to stand in line, to hope for help, to travel to said hotel. If AA is having so much trouble honoring its ticket sales, why can’t top mgmt offer more flexibility to help out. Asking her to go to airport just to leave is absurd.


This really isn't the domain of top (C-Level) management. C-Level management at a company the size of AA deals with high level strategic planning. What you're talking about is tactical issues. I'm not sure where AA splits responsibilities like this, but that is probably at the Director or VP level.
 
alasizon
Posts: 3055
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:02 am

32andBelow wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
it also would have helped a lot with this unnecessary crew shuffle just leaving people qualified in the big equipment


Except AA retired the A330, 767, and 757 as a result of the pandemic. Their union contract requires a rebid for the pilots displaced because of that retirement, which then can cause more displacements, etc.

Even hypothetically if the airline did declare an act of god, didn't get sued by the union over it, what were they supposed to do with the A330, 767 and 757 pilots? Just pay them indefinitely until they decide to retire?

Its really easy to look at these things at the high level and say "oh they should've done x, y, z" without looking at the resulting effects from doing x, y, and z." AA had lots of bad options and no good ones. So they chose a bad option.

They never had to displace people off the smallest equipment. Displacing people off 737 or a320 to furlough was just really bad planning.

They could have just had people bid to make the remaining pilot groups bigger


That quite literally isn't how pilot workgroups work, you can't just "make them bigger". AA hasn't had people on furlough for at least five months now (their time on furlough was very limited too) and the displaced people at the bottom are not the ones causing the issue, rather the required shuffle as you reshuffle the 757 and 330 pilots downward.

Everyone that changed equipment needed to be retrained and the 737 is the fleet most behind with training. Both narrowbody groups are critical on staffing because of the constant shuffle, the 737 fleet just didn't get to where it was planned to, whether that was due to sim availability, instructor availability, or whatever other factor. Making it arbitrarily bigger as you wish to do wouldn't have solved any or that, displacements still occur either way and you can't magically usurp how an entire collective bargaining agreement. If I had to guess, the 737 is behind where planned due to the added MAX training and the demand that is placing on qualified sims nationwide.
 
747fan
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:40 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:36 pm

alasizon wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
USAirKid wrote:

Except AA retired the A330, 767, and 757 as a result of the pandemic. Their union contract requires a rebid for the pilots displaced because of that retirement, which then can cause more displacements, etc.

Even hypothetically if the airline did declare an act of god, didn't get sued by the union over it, what were they supposed to do with the A330, 767 and 757 pilots? Just pay them indefinitely until they decide to retire?

Its really easy to look at these things at the high level and say "oh they should've done x, y, z" without looking at the resulting effects from doing x, y, and z." AA had lots of bad options and no good ones. So they chose a bad option.

They never had to displace people off the smallest equipment. Displacing people off 737 or a320 to furlough was just really bad planning.

They could have just had people bid to make the remaining pilot groups bigger


That quite literally isn't how pilot workgroups work, you can't just "make them bigger". AA hasn't had people on furlough for at least five months now (their time on furlough was very limited too) and the displaced people at the bottom are not the ones causing the issue, rather the required shuffle as you reshuffle the 757 and
330 pilots downward.

Everyone that changed equipment needed to be retrained and the 737 is the fleet most behind with training. Both narrowbody groups are critical on staffing because of the constant shuffle, the 737 fleet just didn't get to where it was planned to, whether that was due to sim availability, instructor availability, or whatever other factor. Making it arbitrarily bigger as you wish to do wouldn't have solved any or that, displacements still occur either way and you can't magically usurp how an entire collective bargaining agreement. If I had to guess, the 737 is behind where planned due to the added MAX training and the demand that is placing on qualified sims nationwide.

To add to the above, there's a number of 737 crews that aren't MAX-qualified yet. This limits flexibility with these airplanes, as they're basically confined to only MIA hub network flying. For example, if they're "subbed" in place of a 737NG into the DFW hub network rather than their usual MIA out-and-backs, there's a decent chance a flight that it's "subbing" on would be rostered by a non-MAX qualified CA and/or FO. Comparatively, now United's 737-MAX9's seem to move around the system more rather than being confined to, say, IAH hub flying.
I'd imagine that the additional "MAX qual" training is way behind where it should be now at AA as a result of all of the displacements and the associated training shuffle. This likely isn't much an issue anymore at United, who didn't furlough anybody/had fewer displacements.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15305
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:36 pm

747fan wrote:
alasizon wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
They never had to displace people off the smallest equipment. Displacing people off 737 or a320 to furlough was just really bad planning.

They could have just had people bid to make the remaining pilot groups bigger


That quite literally isn't how pilot workgroups work, you can't just "make them bigger". AA hasn't had people on furlough for at least five months now (their time on furlough was very limited too) and the displaced people at the bottom are not the ones causing the issue, rather the required shuffle as you reshuffle the 757 and
330 pilots downward.

Everyone that changed equipment needed to be retrained and the 737 is the fleet most behind with training. Both narrowbody groups are critical on staffing because of the constant shuffle, the 737 fleet just didn't get to where it was planned to, whether that was due to sim availability, instructor availability, or whatever other factor. Making it arbitrarily bigger as you wish to do wouldn't have solved any or that, displacements still occur either way and you can't magically usurp how an entire collective bargaining agreement. If I had to guess, the 737 is behind where planned due to the added MAX training and the demand that is placing on qualified sims nationwide.

To add to the above, there's a number of 737 crews that aren't MAX-qualified yet. This limits flexibility with these airplanes, as they're basically confined to only MIA hub network flying. For example, if they're "subbed" in place of a 737NG into the DFW hub network rather than their usual MIA out-and-backs, there's a decent chance a flight that it's "subbing" on would be rostered by a non-MAX qualified CA and/or FO. Comparatively, now United's 737-MAX9's seem to move around the system more rather than being confined to, say, IAH hub flying.
I'd imagine that the additional "MAX qual" training is way behind where it should be now at AA as a result of all of the displacements and the associated training shuffle. This likely isn't much an issue anymore at United, who didn't furlough anybody/had fewer displacements.


Dumb question that I should know the answer to . . . UA always planned to have more MAXes and to get them faster than AA, right?
 
silentbob
Posts: 1645
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:05 pm

Is there something in the contract that requires them to do the training for equipment changes in a specific order? I'm just trying to understand if there is a way to mitigate situations like this in the future.
 
DualQual
Posts: 753
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:15 pm

silentbob wrote:
Is there something in the contract that requires them to do the training for equipment changes in a specific order? I'm just trying to understand if there is a way to mitigate situations like this in the future.


I don’t know specific to AA but some shops have pay rate protection built in if they train out of seniority order. If you got displaced from a widebody to a narrow body with the commensurate pay cut and they train you before someone junior to you that also got displaced you’d be pay protected until the junior person gets trained. There’s nuances to that but that’s the cliff notes version.
 
capejet
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:08 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:47 pm

Well the operational issues continued on the very busy travel day of Monday July 5. Southwest canceled 52 flights, Jetblue 23, Allegiant 20, United 12, American 7, Delta 4. Long lines at airports, frustrated travelers. The media once again citing a pilot shortage at AA. I guess that must be why Southwest is canceling all those flights.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2322
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:58 pm

silentbob wrote:
Is there something in the contract that requires them to do the training for equipment changes in a specific order? I'm just trying to understand if there is a way to mitigate situations like this in the future.



Not in specific order, but you are paid at your current positions pay rate until you complete training and become qualified on the new airplane.

The airline obviously has preferences on who the train first (WB to NB) and would rather continue to pay at current rate (NB to WB). Throw in the airplane specific staffing issues (737) and simulator time shortages, the picture gets cloudier.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5701
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:06 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
silentbob wrote:
Is there something in the contract that requires them to do the training for equipment changes in a specific order? I'm just trying to understand if there is a way to mitigate situations like this in the future.



Not in specific order, but you are paid at your current positions pay rate until you complete training and become qualified on the new airplane.

The airline obviously has preferences on who the train first (WB to NB) and would rather continue to pay at current rate (NB to WB). Throw in the airplane specific staffing issues (737) and simulator time shortages, the picture gets cloudier.

The best part is all the salaries were bailed out
 
altairF28
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:41 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:21 pm

Looks like all of the cancellations for today are due to Elsa-not sure if that means AA has turned the corner/right-sized their schedule or if there were enough of those to prevent any other flights from being scrubbed.
 
lpdal
Posts: 1983
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:49 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:40 pm

We’re hiring 200 FSA’s here in MIA to help with the increased operation.
 
N649DL
Posts: 1185
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:48 pm

alasizon wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
USAirKid wrote:

Except AA retired the A330, 767, and 757 as a result of the pandemic. Their union contract requires a rebid for the pilots displaced because of that retirement, which then can cause more displacements, etc.

Even hypothetically if the airline did declare an act of god, didn't get sued by the union over it, what were they supposed to do with the A330, 767 and 757 pilots? Just pay them indefinitely until they decide to retire?

Its really easy to look at these things at the high level and say "oh they should've done x, y, z" without looking at the resulting effects from doing x, y, and z." AA had lots of bad options and no good ones. So they chose a bad option.

They never had to displace people off the smallest equipment. Displacing people off 737 or a320 to furlough was just really bad planning.

They could have just had people bid to make the remaining pilot groups bigger


That quite literally isn't how pilot workgroups work, you can't just "make them bigger". AA hasn't had people on furlough for at least five months now (their time on furlough was very limited too) and the displaced people at the bottom are not the ones causing the issue, rather the required shuffle as you reshuffle the 757 and 330 pilots downward.

Everyone that changed equipment needed to be retrained and the 737 is the fleet most behind with training. Both narrowbody groups are critical on staffing because of the constant shuffle, the 737 fleet just didn't get to where it was planned to, whether that was due to sim availability, instructor availability, or whatever other factor. Making it arbitrarily bigger as you wish to do wouldn't have solved any or that, displacements still occur either way and you can't magically usurp how an entire collective bargaining agreement. If I had to guess, the 737 is behind where planned due to the added MAX training and the demand that is placing on qualified sims nationwide.


Regardless, I think AA already misses these aircraft in more than a few ways. They already got to the point where they retained the youngest 757s in their fleet, the A330s had new interiors (and not terribly old), and the 763s had a good thing going pre-COVID by being based out of PHL to Europe.
 
crownvic
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Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:34 am

And now they are cancelling 787 flights from PHL to LAS and re-booking pax on connections, but I am so lucky, because according to AA, they are not going charge me anything for being downgraded from a nonstop lie flat 787 to a connection in Chicago on 2x A321s in Domestic First! Isn't that nice of them? Pretty sad this airline can only support one PHL-LAS flight. What a well oiled machine. It's the first time I booked AA in 10 years and definitely my last.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4330
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:46 am

crownvic wrote:
And now they are cancelling 787 flights from PHL to LAS and re-booking pax on connections, but I am so lucky, because according to AA, they are not going charge me anything for being downgraded from a nonstop lie flat 787 to a connection in Chicago on 2x A321s in Domestic First! Isn't that nice of them? Pretty sad this airline can only support one PHL-LAS flight. What a well oiled machine. It's the first time I booked AA in 10 years and definitely my last.


Aircraft types are never guaranteed.
If you don't like their rebooking options you are welcome to get a refund or select any other alternate routing available on AA.
Otherwise, would you like some cheese with that whine?
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:11 am

I believe all the Pilots are now through training. Also 300 new employees above and below wing have been added at DFW. As well as more throughout the system.
 
Pi7472000
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:41 am

crownvic wrote:
And now they are cancelling 787 flights from PHL to LAS and re-booking pax on connections, but I am so lucky, because according to AA, they are not going charge me anything for being downgraded from a nonstop lie flat 787 to a connection in Chicago on 2x A321s in Domestic First! Isn't that nice of them? Pretty sad this airline can only support one PHL-LAS flight. What a well oiled machine. It's the first time I booked AA in 10 years and definitely my last.


That is awful that happened. AA needs to improve its operations! AA received a lot of taxpayer bailouts and you would think it would be operationally sound and customer friendly.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2654
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:33 am

altairF28 wrote:
Looks like all of the cancellations for today are due to Elsa-not sure if that means AA has turned the corner/right-sized their schedule or if there were enough of those to prevent any other flights from being scrubbed.


Every cancelled AA flight today -- the entire 1% -- were cancelled for the same reason?
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4740
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:42 am

The JFK long haul operation seems to be on a better performance track for the past week to ten days. sort of. For a time, TLV, MAD, and LHR took some hefty delays but that seems to have abated. MDE, CLO, and BOG though have been a mess. BOG performing the best, with CLO and MDE seeing cancellations or long delays. Looks like ATH, FCO, MXP, CDG, and GRU are fairly consistent in being on or close to schedule.
 
747fan
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:40 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:13 pm

IPFreely wrote:
altairF28 wrote:
Looks like all of the cancellations for today are due to Elsa-not sure if that means AA has turned the corner/right-sized their schedule or if there were enough of those to prevent any other flights from being scrubbed.


Every cancelled AA flight today -- the entire 1% -- were cancelled for the same reason?

There were several cancellations and diversions last night due to storms around NYC and DFW, in addition to the cancellations along the west Florida coast and EYW resulting from the tropical storm. If it weren’t for weather issues there would’ve been hardly any on AA.
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2866
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:27 pm

Quick look at the departure board at dfwairport.com this morning shows vast majority of AA flights showing on time.
Big improvement over last week :)
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5214
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:53 pm

AA has 777/787s sitting around. I know it takes time to get them ready but this seems like it should have been a known issue. AA had scheduled way more flights then they could fly someone knew this problem was coming months ago. If they had planned ahead they could have cancelled two phl-lax flights and replaced with one 777 freeing up alot of narrowbody plane time to cover other flights etc.

AA just seems like they are handling this as poorly as possible from a CS standpoint. We cancelled your flight with no good alternative or super long layovers etc. I have a friend who got a last minute cancellation of a N/S flight offered no realistic rebooking options, it's like fly two days later with a long layover options. AA isnt offering realistic rebooking options. They have decided to do a refund (which will take five calls as a non elite to actually get processed) and rebooked on a super expensive spirit non-stop. AA And WN scheduling disaster is probably a huge boost to other airlines and makes spirit and frontier etc look like more well run operations! This summer is gonna turn alot of flyers off aa and an when they book their next flights.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5214
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:01 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
Quick look at the departure board at dfwairport.com this morning shows vast majority of AA flights showing on time.
Big improvement over last week :)


That is what has been so stressful for flyers. AA probably still has way more flights scheduled then they can realistically fly. I would be shocked if we don't see cancellations pop up as crews time out later in the day.
They are just praying for bad weather to blame cancellations on somewhere in the network. Also they proactively have been cancelling alot of flights a few days ahead so there's no way to know how many got cancelled already.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:07 pm

Please do not mock other posters.

moderators have to delete all post the quote that.
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2260
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:30 pm

COVID (cratering travel) followed by a rapid reopening totally exposed this industry. EVERYONE is hiring and looking at the pay at the airlines to be a gate/ticket agent, a ramp worker etc vs competing jobs, the airlines will often lose out on the employee. Low pay, HIGH stress with the way people act these days vs working at any of a number of other industries where the pay is similar, the stress is less?

The airlines will need to pay more because the staff issues at the airport will continue at this rate.
 
alasizon
Posts: 3055
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:29 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
Quick look at the departure board at dfwairport.com this morning shows vast majority of AA flights showing on time.
Big improvement over last week :)


That is what has been so stressful for flyers. AA probably still has way more flights scheduled then they can realistically fly. I would be shocked if we don't see cancellations pop up as crews time out later in the day.
They are just praying for bad weather to blame cancellations on somewhere in the network. Also they proactively have been cancelling alot of flights a few days ahead so there's no way to know how many got cancelled already.


There was a reduction for the entire month of July at least three weeks in advance, beyond that cancels have been minimal, 1 here, 2 there kind of deal for crew. Weather cancels of course still swing wildly but nothing like June where 80 flights a day were taking a hit.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1841
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:37 am

SonomaFlyer wrote:
COVID (cratering travel) followed by a rapid reopening totally exposed this industry. EVERYONE is hiring and looking at the pay at the airlines to be a gate/ticket agent, a ramp worker etc vs competing jobs, the airlines will often lose out on the employee. Low pay, HIGH stress with the way people act these days vs working at any of a number of other industries where the pay is similar, the stress is less?

The airlines will need to pay more because the staff issues at the airport will continue at this rate.


I've always wondered how the airlines got away with paying their employees so little (except the C suite of course). Maybe the travel benefits used to be appealing enough to make up for the low pay, but that no longer seems to be the case!
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2322
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:41 pm

9w748capt wrote:
SonomaFlyer wrote:
COVID (cratering travel) followed by a rapid reopening totally exposed this industry. EVERYONE is hiring and looking at the pay at the airlines to be a gate/ticket agent, a ramp worker etc vs competing jobs, the airlines will often lose out on the employee. Low pay, HIGH stress with the way people act these days vs working at any of a number of other industries where the pay is similar, the stress is less?

The airlines will need to pay more because the staff issues at the airport will continue at this rate.


I've always wondered how the airlines got away with paying their employees so little (except the C suite of course). Maybe the travel benefits used to be appealing enough to make up for the low pay, but that no longer seems to be the case!


There is a large brain drain in the corporate side. Accountants/Finance/Legal won't stick around for airline pay if they're good at their job. If they aren't..
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:32 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
SonomaFlyer wrote:
COVID (cratering travel) followed by a rapid reopening totally exposed this industry. EVERYONE is hiring and looking at the pay at the airlines to be a gate/ticket agent, a ramp worker etc vs competing jobs, the airlines will often lose out on the employee. Low pay, HIGH stress with the way people act these days vs working at any of a number of other industries where the pay is similar, the stress is less?

The airlines will need to pay more because the staff issues at the airport will continue at this rate.


I've always wondered how the airlines got away with paying their employees so little (except the C suite of course). Maybe the travel benefits used to be appealing enough to make up for the low pay, but that no longer seems to be the case!


There is a large brain drain in the corporate side. Accountants/Finance/Legal won't stick around for airline pay if they're good at their job. If they aren't..


:checkmark:

This is very true. I started at an airline HQ in 2010 in human resources. They had a superb staff in our area. There is literally not one single person left who was there when I started. Everyone has either left the industry entirely or (in my case) moved to a non-airline sector of aviation. The pay just wasn't worth it and the travel benefits are practically useless anymore.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10041
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:14 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
Quick look at the departure board at dfwairport.com this morning shows vast majority of AA flights showing on time.
Big improvement over last week :)


Not a great metric, neither as a narrow slice of time, nor as being representative of the system as ~80% of AA departures aren't from DFW. The DOT's August Air Travel Consumer Report will have cancellations and delays data for June.
 
ckfred
Posts: 5201
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:36 pm

N649DL wrote:
ckfred wrote:
Drive past any store or restaurant, and there is a help wanted sign. I think people grew accustomed to how organized labor lay-offs work. When the Big Three laid off hourly workers during an economic downturn, they started with the least senior people and worked up the seniority ladder, until the number of workers designated was reached. As the economy picked up, workers were called back, starting with those with the most seniority.

People assumed that if a retailer or restaurant laid off people, they would go back when restrictions allowed more hours, or business picked up. But, many workers either found other work, are biding their time with unemployment, or are making wholesale changes (shifting industries or going back to school).

I've read that the travel industry (airlines, hotels, rental cars, etc.) are all seeing stronger bookings for this summer than were anticipated. Many hotels don't have enough staff and are booking fewer rooms than capacity. Rental car companies are short of vehicles. The airlines are dealing with staffing shortages and the usual summer weather problems.


I think you're right. When I rent to BOS recently I experienced this more or less as the country was re-opening. Rental car prices were through the roof, hotels provided the bare minimum (EG: No room service at a Hilton in BOS and then another timeshare in Hyannis, MA issued mandates to take out your trash upon checkout or get fined), DL ran out of drinks on flights and/or not serving meals in F, long Uber waits and/or bad communication to/from the drivers. Upon getting back to home to LAX it was a $60 Uber ride back to my neighborhood whereas it was less than $20 on the outbound. Both were at peak departure and arrival times.

I will say (per usual) Hilton in downtown BOS was actually pretty good overall. DL on the other hand, not so much. I'm noticing a pattern: Upgrades occur quickly but service doesn't. They've taken a nosedive from the good old pre-COVID days. It's just sad. I can't speak to AA, but they might actually be better from an at least onboard service perspective these days.

Overall, the prices I paid were similar to pre-COVID and with worse service and more attitude. If America is ready to reopen, let's get it back to 2019 standards and not have things be so sloppy through poor mostly app-based communication. I'd rather stay home than deal with bad and/or stupidly automated customer service.

Back to AA, I think people with short-term memories forget how many brand new aircraft AA took on to replace older frames (EG: Aggressively phasing out the S80) and then digested US around the same time. So it's no wonder their debt and staffing issues are hazardous.


I had dinner with an AA captain. Part of the cancellation problems has been getting furloughed pilots through training and back to duty status. That was supposed to clear up by the end of June. My friend told me that APA suggested that AA offer some flights with overtime pay, in order to get pilots who don't have maximum hours to pick up some extra flying and operate a full or nearly full schedule.

Management rejected the offer.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1841
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:24 am

ckfred wrote:
N649DL wrote:
ckfred wrote:
Drive past any store or restaurant, and there is a help wanted sign. I think people grew accustomed to how organized labor lay-offs work. When the Big Three laid off hourly workers during an economic downturn, they started with the least senior people and worked up the seniority ladder, until the number of workers designated was reached. As the economy picked up, workers were called back, starting with those with the most seniority.

People assumed that if a retailer or restaurant laid off people, they would go back when restrictions allowed more hours, or business picked up. But, many workers either found other work, are biding their time with unemployment, or are making wholesale changes (shifting industries or going back to school).

I've read that the travel industry (airlines, hotels, rental cars, etc.) are all seeing stronger bookings for this summer than were anticipated. Many hotels don't have enough staff and are booking fewer rooms than capacity. Rental car companies are short of vehicles. The airlines are dealing with staffing shortages and the usual summer weather problems.


I think you're right. When I rent to BOS recently I experienced this more or less as the country was re-opening. Rental car prices were through the roof, hotels provided the bare minimum (EG: No room service at a Hilton in BOS and then another timeshare in Hyannis, MA issued mandates to take out your trash upon checkout or get fined), DL ran out of drinks on flights and/or not serving meals in F, long Uber waits and/or bad communication to/from the drivers. Upon getting back to home to LAX it was a $60 Uber ride back to my neighborhood whereas it was less than $20 on the outbound. Both were at peak departure and arrival times.

I will say (per usual) Hilton in downtown BOS was actually pretty good overall. DL on the other hand, not so much. I'm noticing a pattern: Upgrades occur quickly but service doesn't. They've taken a nosedive from the good old pre-COVID days. It's just sad. I can't speak to AA, but they might actually be better from an at least onboard service perspective these days.

Overall, the prices I paid were similar to pre-COVID and with worse service and more attitude. If America is ready to reopen, let's get it back to 2019 standards and not have things be so sloppy through poor mostly app-based communication. I'd rather stay home than deal with bad and/or stupidly automated customer service.

Back to AA, I think people with short-term memories forget how many brand new aircraft AA took on to replace older frames (EG: Aggressively phasing out the S80) and then digested US around the same time. So it's no wonder their debt and staffing issues are hazardous.


I had dinner with an AA captain. Part of the cancellation problems has been getting furloughed pilots through training and back to duty status. That was supposed to clear up by the end of June. My friend told me that APA suggested that AA offer some flights with overtime pay, in order to get pilots who don't have maximum hours to pick up some extra flying and operate a full or nearly full schedule.

Management rejected the offer.


Wow, that is just insane. Very curious how this hasn't leaked yet (that I know of). Especially the famous twitter user with all the inside info - seems like he'd be all over this!
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5214
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:07 am

Not for one second do i think any hotel will book below capacity. They just wont have rooms ready at check in times and wont offer late check outs etc. It will add lots of stress on their staff etc but they wont book under capacity. They will cut amenities to reduce staff demand etc but they wont not book to capacity. Most covid cuts could be re-instated but hotels are choosing to keep them in place to save money and staff time. Ive seen quite a few airport hotels with no airport shuttles or reduced hours. Its just SOL covid and take an uber or fly in during our new shorter hours.

This summer is the worst value we maybe have ever seen for travel. Higher fares, reduced amenities, longer lines, and more SOL we dont have the car/room/seat/routing your reserved. Should get alot better in the fall when kids are back in school and business travel is still very low.
 
N649DL
Posts: 1185
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:14 am

9w748capt wrote:
ckfred wrote:
N649DL wrote:

I think you're right. When I rent to BOS recently I experienced this more or less as the country was re-opening. Rental car prices were through the roof, hotels provided the bare minimum (EG: No room service at a Hilton in BOS and then another timeshare in Hyannis, MA issued mandates to take out your trash upon checkout or get fined), DL ran out of drinks on flights and/or not serving meals in F, long Uber waits and/or bad communication to/from the drivers. Upon getting back to home to LAX it was a $60 Uber ride back to my neighborhood whereas it was less than $20 on the outbound. Both were at peak departure and arrival times.

I will say (per usual) Hilton in downtown BOS was actually pretty good overall. DL on the other hand, not so much. I'm noticing a pattern: Upgrades occur quickly but service doesn't. They've taken a nosedive from the good old pre-COVID days. It's just sad. I can't speak to AA, but they might actually be better from an at least onboard service perspective these days.

Overall, the prices I paid were similar to pre-COVID and with worse service and more attitude. If America is ready to reopen, let's get it back to 2019 standards and not have things be so sloppy through poor mostly app-based communication. I'd rather stay home than deal with bad and/or stupidly automated customer service.

Back to AA, I think people with short-term memories forget how many brand new aircraft AA took on to replace older frames (EG: Aggressively phasing out the S80) and then digested US around the same time. So it's no wonder their debt and staffing issues are hazardous.


I had dinner with an AA captain. Part of the cancellation problems has been getting furloughed pilots through training and back to duty status. That was supposed to clear up by the end of June. My friend told me that APA suggested that AA offer some flights with overtime pay, in order to get pilots who don't have maximum hours to pick up some extra flying and operate a full or nearly full schedule.

Management rejected the offer.


Wow, that is just insane. Very curious how this hasn't leaked yet (that I know of). Especially the famous twitter user with all the inside info - seems like he'd be all over this!


Especially considering how everything else about the commercial aviation industry does seem to get leaked in some way these days on Social Media.

With regards to hotels, that Hilton in BOS was extremely chill and had helpful staff overall (despite them not having any kind of designated room service). In terms of brand loyalty, I think I'm with Hilton 100% these days over Marriott.

And yes, they did offer late checkout in BOS traveling to the Cape. It was until 1:30pm, and admittedly I stretched it to past 2 and they were very receptive. Keeping the common area library open in the middle of the night while on the phone with getting dumped was certainly helpful.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5214
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:28 am

N649DL wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
ckfred wrote:

I had dinner with an AA captain. Part of the cancellation problems has been getting furloughed pilots through training and back to duty status. That was supposed to clear up by the end of June. My friend told me that APA suggested that AA offer some flights with overtime pay, in order to get pilots who don't have maximum hours to pick up some extra flying and operate a full or nearly full schedule.

Management rejected the offer.


Wow, that is just insane. Very curious how this hasn't leaked yet (that I know of). Especially the famous twitter user with all the inside info - seems like he'd be all over this!


Especially considering how everything else about the commercial aviation industry does seem to get leaked in some way these days on Social Media.

With regards to hotels, that Hilton in BOS was extremely chill and had helpful staff overall (despite them not having any kind of designated room service). In terms of brand loyalty, I think I'm with Hilton 100% these days over Marriott.

And yes, they did offer late checkout in BOS traveling to the Cape. It was until 1:30pm, and admittedly I stretched it to past 2 and they were very receptive. Keeping the common area library open in the middle of the night while on the phone with getting dumped was certainly helpful.


I didn't say no hotel is offering lake check outs. I said if they are short staffed they will cut things like that before they reduce capacity. Hotels will be filling up they will simply reduce amenities and extras just like the airlines have done.
 
RicFlyer
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:15 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:16 am

Today (7/9) as of 7;00am AA has only cancelled 3 flights. It appears they have turned the corner but will see at the end of the month.
 
Woofbite
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:02 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:03 pm

They bring in a lot of revenue in advance bookings whether they actually fly them or not and most passengers will be rerouted or refunded in future credits. if the flights are cancelled.




I'm not arguing that AA's scheduling the maximum possible; I was just pointing out that they're scheduling significantly more domestic widebodies than they typically do. I suspect that if they thought they could be covering costs and bringing in additional revenue by flying more domestic widebodies, they'd be doing it.[/quote]
 
asuflyer
Topic Author
Posts: 769
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:53 am

They still can't get it together on JFK-MDE and JFK-CLO. Yesterday's JFK-CLO is over 14 hours late.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4740
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:29 am

asuflyer wrote:
They still can't get it together on JFK-MDE and JFK-CLO. Yesterday's JFK-CLO is over 14 hours late.


JFK-CLO has had a difficult launch due to airport issues on the CLO end, and endured a long stretch of cancellations, but yes, MDE and CLO often depart late. The A319s are rotated in and out of JFK through the Caribbean or CLT to operate. BOG has been a bit better, but broadly, the JFK international operation has largely been on or close to schedule the last couple of weeks.
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:35 pm

AA just finished its best second quarter ever for both CF and A14. I guess this thread was greatly exaggerated.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5214
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:05 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
AA just finished its best second quarter ever for both CF and A14. I guess this thread was greatly exaggerated.


Most of AAs issues were this quarter or the very end of last quarter. Most of last quarter AA didn't face these issues. There's also a delay in anything related to feedback etc. I woudlnt expect anything to show in these issues for last quarter
 
jayunited
Posts: 3608
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:01 pm

alasizon wrote:
Everyone that changed equipment needed to be retrained and the 737 is the fleet most behind with training. Both narrowbody groups are critical on staffing because of the constant shuffle, the 737 fleet just didn't get to where it was planned to, whether that was due to sim availability, instructor availability, or whatever other factor. Making it arbitrarily bigger as you wish to do wouldn't have solved any or that, displacements still occur either way and you can't magically usurp how an entire collective bargaining agreement. If I had to guess, the 737 is behind where planned due to the added MAX training and the demand that is placing on qualified sims nationwide.


You have a point especially as it pertains to the MAX. Over here at United the plan is to have all 737NG pilots qualified to fly the MAX but we are not even close right now as a result there have been times where United has had to do last minute plane changes from a MAX 9 to a 739ER because the original MAX crew timed out and we didn't have any other MAX crews available but we had 737NG crews and aircraft available. I'm not sure when AA, WN or UA were informed the FAA would clear the MAX to fly again but the training requirements to fly the MAX just adds another level of complexity to what is already a hectic and demanding training schedule.

With airlines like AA, WN and UA re-activating their MAX fleets as robustly as they did I wonder if any of these carriers actually had enough qualified pilots to fly the 737 MAX schedules they posted.

For anyone who thinks this problem is easily solved they really don't understand how many moving pieces are on the board. Over here at United I don't think we have ever seen displacement bids like the one's we have experience and we haven't retired any things I can't imagine how complex all this movement must be for American.
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:10 am

jayunited wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Everyone that changed equipment needed to be retrained and the 737 is the fleet most behind with training. Both narrowbody groups are critical on staffing because of the constant shuffle, the 737 fleet just didn't get to where it was planned to, whether that was due to sim availability, instructor availability, or whatever other factor. Making it arbitrarily bigger as you wish to do wouldn't have solved any or that, displacements still occur either way and you can't magically usurp how an entire collective bargaining agreement. If I had to guess, the 737 is behind where planned due to the added MAX training and the demand that is placing on qualified sims nationwide.


You have a point especially as it pertains to the MAX. Over here at United the plan is to have all 737NG pilots qualified to fly the MAX but we are not even close right now as a result there have been times where United has had to do last minute plane changes from a MAX 9 to a 739ER because the original MAX crew timed out and we didn't have any other MAX crews available but we had 737NG crews and aircraft available. I'm not sure when AA, WN or UA were informed the FAA would clear the MAX to fly again but the training requirements to fly the MAX just adds another level of complexity to what is already a hectic and demanding training schedule.

With airlines like AA, WN and UA re-activating their MAX fleets as robustly as they did I wonder if any of these carriers actually had enough qualified pilots to fly the 737 MAX schedules they posted.

For anyone who thinks this problem is easily solved they really don't understand how many moving pieces are on the board. Over here at United I don't think we have ever seen displacement bids like the one's we have experience and we haven't retired any things I can't imagine how complex all this movement must be for American.


Last quarter is April-June. Not only a corporate reporting period but the exact same time frame I'd this greatly exaggerated thread.
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:57 am

UpNAWAy wrote:
jayunited wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Everyone that changed equipment needed to be retrained and the 737 is the fleet most behind with training. Both narrowbody groups are critical on staffing because of the constant shuffle, the 737 fleet just didn't get to where it was planned to, whether that was due to sim availability, instructor availability, or whatever other factor. Making it arbitrarily bigger as you wish to do wouldn't have solved any or that, displacements still occur either way and you can't magically usurp how an entire collective bargaining agreement. If I had to guess, the 737 is behind where planned due to the added MAX training and the demand that is placing on qualified sims nationwide.


You have a point especially as it pertains to the MAX. Over here at United the plan is to have all 737NG pilots qualified to fly the MAX but we are not even close right now as a result there have been times where United has had to do last minute plane changes from a MAX 9 to a 739ER because the original MAX crew timed out and we didn't have any other MAX crews available but we had 737NG crews and aircraft available. I'm not sure when AA, WN or UA were informed the FAA would clear the MAX to fly again but the training requirements to fly the MAX just adds another level of complexity to what is already a hectic and demanding training schedule.

With airlines like AA, WN and UA re-activating their MAX fleets as robustly as they did I wonder if any of these carriers actually had enough qualified pilots to fly the 737 MAX schedules they posted.

For anyone who thinks this problem is easily solved they really don't understand how many moving pieces are on the board. Over here at United I don't think we have ever seen displacement bids like the one's we have experience and we haven't retired any things I can't imagine how complex all this movement must be for American.


Last quarter is April-June. Not only a corporate reporting period but the exact same time frame of this greatly exaggerated thread.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2892
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:24 am

The defenders of AA are alive and well here. All I am reading is how the problems are all in the past. Meanwhile, they just cancelled my return nonstop leg PHL-LAS in August and have put me on another connection. So, the problems are not over. Then they want to offer me a credit instead of a refund? Look forward to this battle. I just cancelled the trip and now refuse to fly this airline anymore.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4330
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:36 am

crownvic wrote:
The defenders of AA are alive and well here. All I am reading is how the problems are all in the past. Meanwhile, they just cancelled my return nonstop leg PHL-LAS in August and have put me on another connection. So, the problems are not over. Then they want to offer me a credit instead of a refund? Look forward to this battle. I just cancelled the trip and now refuse to fly this airline anymore.


If your flight is not until August that is a schedule change not a cancellation. Words matter.
The AA COC is pretty clear that you are eligible for a refund if you are changed from a non-stop to a connection. It isn't automatic - you have to go to https://prefunds.aa.com and request it.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5214
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:58 pm

The AA defenders are really working overtime these days lol . Good to see they have still have the energy

The service on all legacies has gone downhill so much, let's see what product remains lost covid. The real question is what service cuts become permanent. Nothing specific to AA, all legacies legacies have cut alot

Right now AA feels the most like spirit but with worse customer service, more cancellations and oasis seats are way less comfy then the big front seats on spirit.

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