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YQBexYHZBGM
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:37 pm

Delta28L wrote:
They keep passing DTW where they could make themselves the number one ME carrier

Would be great to see them in DTW, but given that TK is Star Alliance and DTW is a fortress hub for Delta (Skyteam), not likely. I couldn't say whether internal communications among alliance members would actively discourage a member from trying such a route, but I'm certain it would figure in the route planning considerations.
 
bravotango75
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:03 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
FLYKTPA wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:
Turkish is adding Dallas and Denver https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/140 ... 10213?s=20

I can understand denver but why dallas?


Dallas is a massive market with a lot of African, Middle East and South East Asian demand.

Don’t forget how well placed IST is for connections. So much of the world is one stop away with Turkish’s massive network. DFW should be easy on a 787 maybe 4-5x weekly.



No its not.

Let’s not make Dallas sound like Paris London NY or Tokyo.

It is a large US city with targeted international business connections, which an airline like TK will need to carve out a niche to be successful in

Spot on...It amuses me when posters from TX, especially Houston and Dallas comment on how their cities are direct competitors with the likes of NYC and LA. Have to wonder if TK will be pulling their Houston service when Dallas service begins.
 
BHMNONREV
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:25 pm

bravotango75 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
FLYKTPA wrote:

Dallas is a massive market with a lot of African, Middle East and South East Asian demand.

Don’t forget how well placed IST is for connections. So much of the world is one stop away with Turkish’s massive network. DFW should be easy on a 787 maybe 4-5x weekly.



No its not.

Let’s not make Dallas sound like Paris London NY or Tokyo.

It is a large US city with targeted international business connections, which an airline like TK will need to carve out a niche to be successful in

Spot on...It amuses me when posters from TX, especially Houston and Dallas comment on how their cities are direct competitors with the likes of NYC and LA. Have to wonder if TK will be pulling their Houston service when Dallas service begins.


Been around this site for a long time, and while I don't post as much as most I read a large majority of these threads and I don't recall any posters from Houston and/or Dallas ever stating that their respective airports were direct competitors to NYC and LA, but if you could provide some examples I will gladly retract my comment however your distain for anything Texas related is getting old..

Regarding TK being successful in Dallas, I don't see any reason that will not be the case. But in the current environment only time will tell, best of luck to DFW and TK.
 
FLYKTPA
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:57 pm

bravotango75 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
FLYKTPA wrote:

Dallas is a massive market with a lot of African, Middle East and South East Asian demand.

Don’t forget how well placed IST is for connections. So much of the world is one stop away with Turkish’s massive network. DFW should be easy on a 787 maybe 4-5x weekly.



No its not.

Let’s not make Dallas sound like Paris London NY or Tokyo.

It is a large US city with targeted international business connections, which an airline like TK will need to carve out a niche to be successful in

Spot on...It amuses me when posters from TX, especially Houston and Dallas comment on how their cities are direct competitors with the likes of NYC and LA. Have to wonder if TK will be pulling their Houston service when Dallas service begins.



Why would they cut IAH to add DFW? Makes zero sense. IAH is one of their largest partner hubs and an established Turkish route.
 
mcg
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:10 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
BAINY3 wrote:
Just for reference, here are the UA destinations that are served from DEN but nowhere else, at least in the current schedule (some of the ski stuff might have additional flights next winter but are not currently loaded):

Flagstaff, Hayden/Steamboat Springs, Eagle/Vail, Pueblo, Alamosa, Durango, Grand Junction, Idaho Falls, Twin Falls, Hays, Dodge City, Liberal, Billings, Great Falls, Helena, West Yellowstone, North Platte, Scottsbluff, Santa Fe, Jamestown, Devils Lake, Minot, Dickinson, Williston, Pierre, Moab, Vernal, St. George, Everett, Sheridan, Gillette, Riverton, Casper, Rock Springs, Laramie, and Cheyenne.


All of those cities combined probably generate 40 international pax a day.


I think 40 international passengers per day might be a little high.
 
Atlwarrior
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:12 pm

Boiler905 wrote:
Both of these routes make sense for TK.

DFW: Look at all of the non-oneworld international airlines in DFW: KL, KE, EK, LH, AF. Clear indication of the large O&D traffic coming from the DFW area.

DEN: Not as big as other hub cities in terms of trans-ocean traffic but it's still fairly sizable: particularly to India & Nepal. Add on the flow via DEN (which seems redundant given TK already serves ORD/SFO/IAH) and the spill traffic from western US>Europe and TK should do just fine there at least on a seasonal basis.

My guess for their next US destinations are DTW & LAS.


Denver is also growing like crazy and has a lot of Ethiopians. I also love Denver connectivity into the city. Probably the best connection of any US city, with those comfortable Amtrak-like trains.
 
kayik
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:33 pm

Turkish diaspora is probably a fraction of the reason for flying there maybe not at all. TK is much larger than that. Think of the number of Europeans flying to Denver a day. Europeans don't like flying domestic in the US, they choose to fly direct from Europe whenever they can. The reasons are:
-Once you check-in your luggage at your starting point, you see it again at your destination. Imagine collecting it at JFK and and check-in again.
-You avoid circus like airports and long lines of passport control
-You avoid Southwest and stay on board Lufthansa
TK is making and advantage of it. Good enough?
 
FlyingSicilian
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:37 pm

bravotango75 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
FLYKTPA wrote:

Dallas is a massive market with a lot of African, Middle East and South East Asian demand.

Don’t forget how well placed IST is for connections. So much of the world is one stop away with Turkish’s massive network. DFW should be easy on a 787 maybe 4-5x weekly.



No its not.

Let’s not make Dallas sound like Paris London NY or Tokyo.

It is a large US city with targeted international business connections, which an airline like TK will need to carve out a niche to be successful in

Spot on...It amuses me when posters from TX, especially Houston and Dallas comment on how their cities are direct competitors with the likes of NYC and LA. Have to wonder if TK will be pulling their Houston service when Dallas service begins.


The feckless trolling aside; I have not seen a post where that was stated. Regarding Houston it is the 4th largest city, 5th largest metro, most diverse city in the USA for a couple years running now by multiple metrics, and home to the third largest consul corps in the USA with medicine, energy, trade, and aerospace ties worldwide. So the int'l presence is warranted and historic. But let's not digress.

I cannot speak for DFW but Turkish does very well at IAH per all their media statements and Pre-COVID actions (also with Cargo) so your post is just riddled with errors. To quote Adam's...Facts are stubborn things.

I am sure DFW will do fine. DEN will need feed I think but post COVID the world will be a different place. People are very price conscience too. I employ and know, literally, scores of Italian and German families who fly via IST adding much, much more time to flights, to save on family trips back to Europe. Back end traffic will be easy IMO. The front end and cargo will make the routes IMO.
Last edited by FlyingSicilian on Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ci sono formiche qui
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:39 pm

Pi7472000 wrote:
Denver make sense with Star Alliance and it is a growing city with so many connections. I am surprised by Dallas! Dallas doesn’t make as much sense.


I'm pretty sure a number of people from the D/FW area connect to TK's flights at IAH and ORD. TK could easily justify a flight to DFW for the O&D. This should make more seats available at IAH as passengers who previously had to connect at IAH could fly O&D from DFW.
 
Runway765
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:43 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
Denver make sense with Star Alliance and it is a growing city with so many connections. I am surprised by Dallas! Dallas doesn’t make as much sense.


I'm pretty sure a number of people from the D/FW area connect to TK's flights at IAH and ORD. TK could easily justify a flight to DFW for the O&D. This should make more seats available at IAH as passengers who previously had to connect at IAH could fly O&D from DFW.


If ATL can have a TK flight, no reason why DFW can’t.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:47 pm

Atlwarrior wrote:
Boiler905 wrote:
Both of these routes make sense for TK.

DFW: Look at all of the non-oneworld international airlines in DFW: KL, KE, EK, LH, AF. Clear indication of the large O&D traffic coming from the DFW area.

DEN: Not as big as other hub cities in terms of trans-ocean traffic but it's still fairly sizable: particularly to India & Nepal. Add on the flow via DEN (which seems redundant given TK already serves ORD/SFO/IAH) and the spill traffic from western US>Europe and TK should do just fine there at least on a seasonal basis.

My guess for their next US destinations are DTW & LAS.


Denver is also growing like crazy and has a lot of Ethiopians. I also love Denver connectivity into the city. Probably the best connection of any US city, with those comfortable Amtrak-like trains.


I’m not questioning DEN’s viability here because it is a booming city with decent demand but one thing Denver really isn’t is diverse. They don’t really have a lot of ethnic groups that would use this flight. And even the Ethiopian population isn’t that big. It’s smaller than Dallas which some are questioning.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:03 am

Runway765 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
Denver make sense with Star Alliance and it is a growing city with so many connections. I am surprised by Dallas! Dallas doesn’t make as much sense.


I'm pretty sure a number of people from the D/FW area connect to TK's flights at IAH and ORD. TK could easily justify a flight to DFW for the O&D. This should make more seats available at IAH as passengers who previously had to connect at IAH could fly O&D from DFW.


If ATL can have a TK flight, no reason why DFW can’t.


Absolutely. I've just noticed the ticket prices on TK-33 and TK-34 seem to be higher now. My wife and her parents fly on these flights to and from eastern Europe. Besides adding a new destination to their rout map, the Dallas flight allows TK to offer more seats at IAH without having to add another flight to IAH.
 
mkorpal333
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:26 am

Arguing about populations aside, anyone have a guess/know what equipment would be used for DEN. I'd guess a 789, but could a 333 make it?
 
rjbesikof
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:50 am

mkorpal333 wrote:
Arguing about populations aside, anyone have a guess/know what equipment would be used for DEN. I'd guess a 789, but could a 333 make it?


I am actually thinking a 77W if DIA (Denver International Airport) has the gates to support it. They will have UA's big domestic network at DEN on one end and TK's intl network on the other.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:19 am

mkorpal333 wrote:
Arguing about populations aside, anyone have a guess/know what equipment would be used for DEN. I'd guess a 789, but could a 333 make it?


I'd guess a 789 as well with a very late departure to avoid the heat and altitude issues in the summer.
 
N649DL
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:38 am

Runway765 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
Really more why Denver. It’s not like there is much there that can’t be served over ORD/IAH/LAX/SFO.
Dallas is a huge local market to the Subcontinent and a growing one to Africa.


Denver is good for connections to/from a lot of midwestern cities. United has a huge hub there and it's in the Star Alliance.


Yes, the real question is what took so long. With UA growing to 700 flights, it only makes sense.


UA finally being combative at DEN once again to try to beat out F9 and WN, I guess. As someone who used to live there, I really don't see much demand going to IST. UA even hesitated with bringing back DEN-LHR and IIRC, the only reason to launch DEN-NRT was that the 787 was the right aircraft for the route.

What DEN does have available? Not a ton of diversity and a lot of White People. Not many of them looking to go to Turkey either. And many are young transplants willing to move on-demand for better opportunities. Rent is high out there and salaries just don't compare in certain industries to other states which Colorado is trying to compete with (I'm thinking TX, FL, AZ, etc.) Lot's of Midwest transplants as well which can easily move home because it isn't far away. DEN just doesn't seem terribly stable to stay in long-term, especially right now.

DFW as a Metro-Area on the other hand = Massive. It's likely being launched for corporate opportunities. Look at how many International carriers serve DFW Vs. DEN. I don't think it's comparable.
 
Runway765
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:01 am

N649DL wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:

Denver is good for connections to/from a lot of midwestern cities. United has a huge hub there and it's in the Star Alliance.


Yes, the real question is what took so long. With UA growing to 700 flights, it only makes sense.


UA finally being combative at DEN once again to try to beat out F9 and WN, I guess. As someone who used to live there, I really don't see much demand going to IST. UA even hesitated with bringing back DEN-LHR and IIRC, the only reason to launch DEN-NRT was that the 787 was the right aircraft for the route.

What DEN does have available? Not a ton of diversity and a lot of White People. Not many of them looking to go to Turkey either. And many are young transplants willing to move on-demand for better opportunities. Rent is high out there and salaries just don't compare in certain industries to other states which Colorado is trying to compete with (I'm thinking TX, FL, AZ, etc.) Lot's of Midwest transplants as well which can easily move home because it isn't far away. DEN just doesn't seem terribly stable to stay in long-term, especially right now.

DFW as a Metro-Area on the other hand = Massive. It's likely being launched for corporate opportunities. Look at how many International carriers serve DFW Vs. DEN. I don't think it's comparable.


The only reason TK launches DEN is because of the massive growth of the UA hub. DEN was the only hub without TK. While DEN has a fair amount of O&D demand, it’s primarily domestic. That said, I think this flight will do better than people anticipate.
 
n2dru
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:06 am

Runway765 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
Denver make sense with Star Alliance and it is a growing city with so many connections. I am surprised by Dallas! Dallas doesn’t make as much sense.


I'm pretty sure a number of people from the D/FW area connect to TK's flights at IAH and ORD. TK could easily justify a flight to DFW for the O&D. This should make more seats available at IAH as passengers who previously had to connect at IAH could fly O&D from DFW.


If ATL can have a TK flight, no reason why DFW can’t.


Not sure what ATL has to do with discussion but for what it's worth ATL is a lot more diverse than DEN and on par with DFW. IJS
 
laxmia
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:19 am

N649DL wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:

Denver is good for connections to/from a lot of midwestern cities. United has a huge hub there and it's in the Star Alliance.


Yes, the real question is what took so long. With UA growing to 700 flights, it only makes sense.


UA finally being combative at DEN once again to try to beat out F9 and WN, I guess. As someone who used to live there, I really don't see much demand going to IST. UA even hesitated with bringing back DEN-LHR and IIRC, the only reason to launch DEN-NRT was that the 787 was the right aircraft for the route.

What DEN does have available? Not a ton of diversity and a lot of White People. Not many of them looking to go to Turkey either. And many are young transplants willing to move on-demand for better opportunities. Rent is high out there and salaries just don't compare in certain industries to other states which Colorado is trying to compete with (I'm thinking TX, FL, AZ, etc.) Lot's of Midwest transplants as well which can easily move home because it isn't far away. DEN just doesn't seem terribly stable to stay in long-term, especially right now.

DFW as a Metro-Area on the other hand = Massive. It's likely being launched for corporate opportunities. Look at how many International carriers serve DFW Vs. DEN. I don't think it's comparable.


And yet Denver has a larger metro population and bigger O&D market than Vegas (LAS) based on the most recent information. And nearly 30% more O&D traffic than DFW.

Metro population: https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/2297 ... population

O&D: https://orlandoairports.net/site/upload ... anking.pdf

So remind me of your logic…?
 
Delta28L
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:22 am

Runway765 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
Denver make sense with Star Alliance and it is a growing city with so many connections. I am surprised by Dallas! Dallas doesn’t make as much sense.


I'm pretty sure a number of people from the D/FW area connect to TK's flights at IAH and ORD. TK could easily justify a flight to DFW for the O&D. This should make more seats available at IAH as passengers who previously had to connect at IAH could fly O&D from DFW.


If ATL can have a TK flight, no reason why DFW can’t.


Lots of corporate opportunities plus a large African and middle eastern population that’s growing. Opens up a lot of connections to destinations that aren’t served from the mega hubs in Western Europe.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:39 am

DFW I completely understand but DEN was a huge surprise. I hope that it all works for them. I like to see diversity of carriers
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
IPFreely
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:46 am

emre787 wrote:
There's a decent sized turkish diaspora living in east of US midwest as well as the Denver region. People have been complaining that they have to drive for hours or connect to get on a TK flight to IST (and fly beyond domestic especially).


How big is "decent sized"? Enough to fill a weekly flight, or 2-3 weekly? Or a daily flight? I've been to neighborhoods in New York and New Jersey with significant Turkish populations where Turkish language signs are visible in storefronts and the language is spoken in stores. But I've never seen it elsewhere, certainly not in Denver.

And what people are complaining? Where are these complaints?
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:52 am

laxmia wrote:
N649DL wrote:
Runway765 wrote:

Yes, the real question is what took so long. With UA growing to 700 flights, it only makes sense.


UA finally being combative at DEN once again to try to beat out F9 and WN, I guess. As someone who used to live there, I really don't see much demand going to IST. UA even hesitated with bringing back DEN-LHR and IIRC, the only reason to launch DEN-NRT was that the 787 was the right aircraft for the route.

What DEN does have available? Not a ton of diversity and a lot of White People. Not many of them looking to go to Turkey either. And many are young transplants willing to move on-demand for better opportunities. Rent is high out there and salaries just don't compare in certain industries to other states which Colorado is trying to compete with (I'm thinking TX, FL, AZ, etc.) Lot's of Midwest transplants as well which can easily move home because it isn't far away. DEN just doesn't seem terribly stable to stay in long-term, especially right now.

DFW as a Metro-Area on the other hand = Massive. It's likely being launched for corporate opportunities. Look at how many International carriers serve DFW Vs. DEN. I don't think it's comparable.


And yet Denver has a larger metro population and bigger O&D market than Vegas (LAS) based on the most recent information. And nearly 30% more O&D traffic than DFW.

Metro population: https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/2297 ... population

O&D: https://orlandoairports.net/site/upload ... anking.pdf

So remind me of your logic…?


There’s a hole in your argument. That’s domestic O&D only. It does not count international O&D.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
Runway765
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:13 am

n2dru wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:

I'm pretty sure a number of people from the D/FW area connect to TK's flights at IAH and ORD. TK could easily justify a flight to DFW for the O&D. This should make more seats available at IAH as passengers who previously had to connect at IAH could fly O&D from DFW.


If ATL can have a TK flight, no reason why DFW can’t.


Not sure what ATL has to do with discussion but for what it's worth ATL is a lot more diverse than DEN and on par with DFW. IJS


I said ATL because they’ve had TK for a number of years now. I was surprised they did and DFW didn’t. Since DFW is bigger and arguably has a slightly bigger international market, no reason they can’t support a flight as well.
 
n2dru
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:32 am

Runway765 wrote:
n2dru wrote:
Runway765 wrote:

If ATL can have a TK flight, no reason why DFW can’t.


Not sure what ATL has to do with discussion but for what it's worth ATL is a lot more diverse than DEN and on par with DFW. IJS


I said ATL because they’ve had TK for a number of years now. I was surprised they did and DFW didn’t. Since DFW is bigger and arguably has a slightly bigger international market, no reason they can’t support a flight as well.


No need single out and be surprised by ATL...its much more diverse than you think.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:40 am

Delta28L wrote:
They keep passing DTW where they could make themselves the number one ME carrier

Thought geographically they are not a ME carrier, just like Pakistan Int. and (arguably) Ariana aren't either.

But yeah, I totally get your point and see what you mean.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:11 am

Denver has a rapidly growing Indian population as well as Ethiopian and Eritrean and is growing in quite a few industries including tech and aerospace. Plus Turkey is one of the few places currently open to Americans with connections to other places that are currently open to Americans.

And I remember seeing DFW rumored on here since I was a vendor for TK in 2014.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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gdg9
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:10 pm

I am surprised that TK didn't consult this forum to determine what routes might be viable, rather than do their own research, network planning, and so on.

Worst case is, a new route doesn't work, and they pull the plug. Is that so terrible? Why are some people seemingly angry about new routes being added?
@dfwtower
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:13 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
Delta28L wrote:
They keep passing DTW where they could make themselves the number one ME carrier

Thought geographically they are not a ME carrier, just like Pakistan Int. and (arguably) Ariana aren't either.

But yeah, I totally get your point and see what you mean.


TK is considered a European carrier but they usually get grouped in with the ME3 because of the breadth of their network.
 
Brandon757
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:17 pm

gdg9 wrote:
I am surprised that TK didn't consult this forum to determine what routes might be viable, rather than do their own research, network planning, and so on.

Worst case is, a new route doesn't work, and they pull the plug. Is that so terrible? Why are some people seemingly angry about new routes being added?

Must be secret AA employees at DFW.
 
FLYKTPA
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:19 pm

gdg9 wrote:
I am surprised that TK didn't consult this forum to determine what routes might be viable, rather than do their own research, network planning, and so on.

Worst case is, a new route doesn't work, and they pull the plug. Is that so terrible? Why are some people seemingly angry about new routes being added?


Honestly! People act like Turkish (arguably one of the world’s best run airlines) did no research into both markets, has no traffic data of their own to review and haven’t worked with both airports extensively to make this a success. People are paid big money and spend years evaluating new markets. They didn’t just wake up last week and say let’s fly to DEN and DFW because it sounds fun.

A lot of users on here are incredibly biased. If the flights were flying to their favorite airport they’d say it was best idea Turkish has had yet. But if anyone else gets it the flight suddenly makes zero sense…
 
hohd
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:29 pm

Runway765 wrote:
n2dru wrote:
Runway765 wrote:

If ATL can have a TK flight, no reason why DFW can’t.


Not sure what ATL has to do with discussion but for what it's worth ATL is a lot more diverse than DEN and on par with DFW. IJS


I said ATL because they’ve had TK for a number of years now. I was surprised they did and DFW didn’t. Since DFW is bigger and arguably has a slightly bigger international market, no reason they can’t support a flight as well.


There was no EK or QR at ATL, so TK thought it would be good fit and it worked out. In addition to serving Europe, TK also serves Africa, Indian subcontinent, Middle east and SE Asia. Now QR has joined ATL, but the natural growth of ATL area has enough to serve 2 carriers. As long as EK is out of ATL, both TK and QR will thrive.

Same reason why TK hesitated to get into DFW market. EK and QR were already flying there.

Also Star alliance connections with UA are often overblown, UA does not generally code share with all but a few Star carriers and is notorious is not offering decent interline fares and sees TK as a competitor rather than an alliance partner.
 
worldranger
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:44 pm

Runway765 wrote:
Does this diminish the chances EK comes to DEN?



Yes..pre Covid during booming 2019, the next stage of EKs down the road N.Am plan was DEN, PHX, LAS and wait for it….BUF to grab the west of YYZ South Asian diaspora. The 789 would have fit the billing
 
emre787
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:06 pm

IPFreely wrote:
emre787 wrote:
There's a decent sized turkish diaspora living in east of US midwest as well as the Denver region. People have been complaining that they have to drive for hours or connect to get on a TK flight to IST (and fly beyond domestic especially).


How big is "decent sized"? Enough to fill a weekly flight, or 2-3 weekly? Or a daily flight? I've been to neighborhoods in New York and New Jersey with significant Turkish populations where Turkish language signs are visible in storefronts and the language is spoken in stores. But I've never seen it elsewhere, certainly not in Denver.

And what people are complaining? Where are these complaints?


Well, I have some turkish friends from Denver and around, and that's what I heard from them... If it isn't true, then it isn't. Also note that I didn't write Denver only but also east US midwest.

To get to your second question. Recently I saw US midwest originated people comment under TK posts on Twitter, Instagram etc. that it's not hassle-free and fast to get on a TK flight to IST...

FLYKTPA wrote:
gdg9 wrote:
I am surprised that TK didn't consult this forum to determine what routes might be viable, rather than do their own research, network planning, and so on.

Worst case is, a new route doesn't work, and they pull the plug. Is that so terrible? Why are some people seemingly angry about new routes being added?


Honestly! People act like Turkish (arguably one of the world’s best run airlines) did no research into both markets, has no traffic data of their own to review and haven’t worked with both airports extensively to make this a success. People are paid big money and spend years evaluating new markets. They didn’t just wake up last week and say let’s fly to DEN and DFW because it sounds fun.

A lot of users on here are incredibly biased. If the flights were flying to their favorite airport they’d say it was best idea Turkish has had yet. But if anyone else gets it the flight suddenly makes zero sense…


Facts! Let's just hope the best for them
 
N1120A
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:21 pm

Denver is a city with a relatively wealthy, growing population and a major partner hub. They also have sizeable Indian, Ethiopian, Russian and Nepali populations that could use TK with relative ease. It is also a major winter tourism destination.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
jmc1975
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:33 pm

With TK adding IST-DEN, it now doesn't sound so far-fetched for QR to start DOH-PHX.
.......
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 895
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:00 am

usflyer msp wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
Delta28L wrote:
They keep passing DTW where they could make themselves the number one ME carrier

Thought geographically they are not a ME carrier, just like Pakistan Int. and (arguably) Ariana aren't either.

But yeah, I totally get your point and see what you mean.


TK is considered a European carrier but they usually get grouped in with the ME3 because of the breadth of their network.


Exactly...Istanbul is just a stone throw from the ME anyways.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:14 am

jmc1975 wrote:
With TK adding IST-DEN, it now doesn't sound so far-fetched for QR to start DOH-PHX.

Cross my fingers!
 
subramak1
Posts: 213
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:52 am

Denver could do with another connection to cater to its Middle Eastern and South Asian population. However connections to India will be limited due to political issues between Turkey and India. Indian government is not going to do any favors to Turkey by allowing additional frequencies or destinations. So TK may not be successful unlike EK/QR
 
N1120A
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:13 am

jmc1975 wrote:
With TK adding IST-DEN, it now doesn't sound so far-fetched for QR to start DOH-PHX.


Eh, there's a big difference between Turkey, with their large O&D demand, and Qatar. Doha is the Charlotte of the Middle East.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1957
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:00 pm

The thing about Istanbul, which makes it a bit different to Dubai and other Gulf airports, is that it lies about 4 hours closer to Europe.

In fact, it is right on the edge of the Balkans which means that it can offer connections not just to India and Africa etc but also to the Balkans, Eastern Europe and a lot of cities in Russia. It's something like a one hour flight to Albania, Macedonia Montenegro or Serbia. Odessa, Bucharest, Chisinau are all less than 1 hour north. Greece is also right next door. Egypt is 2 hours to the south

So I think it's a good option for connections to a lot of places that wouldn't be so easily reached via other cities. And it really has a huge critical mass and lots of frequencies. You could take 10 passengers from 20 destinations and that adds up to enough to fill up a long-haul plane to the USA, without even thinking about O&D demand which is also significant.
 
subramak1
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:53 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
The thing about Istanbul, which makes it a bit different to Dubai and other Gulf airports, is that it lies about 4 hours closer to Europe.

In fact, it is right on the edge of the Balkans which means that it can offer connections not just to India and Africa etc but also to the Balkans, Eastern Europe and a lot of cities in Russia. It's something like a one hour flight to Albania, Macedonia Montenegro or Serbia. Odessa, Bucharest, Chisinau are all less than 1 hour north. Greece is also right next door. Egypt is 2 hours to the south

So I think it's a good option for connections to a lot of places that wouldn't be so easily reached via other cities. And it really has a huge critical mass and lots of frequencies. You could take 10 passengers from 20 destinations and that adds up to enough to fill up a long-haul plane to the USA, without even thinking about O&D demand which is also significant.


While true, these passengers have the option of connecting to Denver via United, LH @ Frankfurt and LH also offered connection via Munich 5 times a week before COVID. TK has to compete against that. There is not a ton of VFR from Central/ Eastern Europe in Denver and what is there is dwarfed by South Asia and Middle East.

Subramanian
 
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stl07
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:55 pm

Delta28L wrote:
They keep passing DTW where they could make themselves the number one ME carrier

DTW is a good place to add, but I feel as though the existing service on RJ is making it hard to attract more carriers to the ME/Levant Region
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
r6russian
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:00 am

Delta28L wrote:
They keep passing DTW where they could make themselves the number one ME carrier

pretty easy to be number one when youre the only one. But DTW doesnt make sense for them, it would be O&D only with no feed help from anyone. I live an hour away from DTW and i know the NW ohio/SE michigan very well, and the bigger issue is DTW catchment area includes large amounts of europeans and arabs, both groups having a strong dislike of Turkey. Turkey is viewed as european china by russians, flooding the market with cheap garbage, disliked for being muslim, and turks and arabs dont like each other. Americanized immigrants like myself would have no problem flying TK, its a world class, safe airline thats cheap TATL, but the majority of the ethnic groups in DTW catchment area are far from americanized, and therefore still hate Turkey and wouldn't consider flying their airline. Then you got mexicans who dont have any money to fly TATL. Why fly where nobody likes you, youre not getting any O&D and no alliance help to fill a widebody

DEN makes perfect sense. Big star hub, plenty of connections, plenty of O&D. To those wondering why literally overfly ORD to fly to DEN, think of it like a regular person and not an aviation enthusiast. We would all take a 7 stop itinerary over a nonstop anyday, but why would a regular person fly DEN-ORD-IST-destination, when they could just fly UA or LH DEN-FRA-destination. TK offering a DEN-IST flight captures a big part of that crowd without cannibalizing ORD or IAH too much since those are huge catchment areas,
 
ATCJesus
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:15 am

Still nothing I’ve seen on the Denver Airport social media channels talking about this flight. Normally they blast it about any additional flights.
 
Brandon757
Posts: 165
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:15 am

ATCJesus wrote:
Still nothing I’ve seen on the Denver Airport social media channels talking about this flight. Normally they blast it about any additional flights.

Same way with DFW. They must be waiting for the start date to be announced.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:11 am

subramak1 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
The thing about Istanbul, which makes it a bit different to Dubai and other Gulf airports, is that it lies about 4 hours closer to Europe.

In fact, it is right on the edge of the Balkans which means that it can offer connections not just to India and Africa etc but also to the Balkans, Eastern Europe and a lot of cities in Russia. It's something like a one hour flight to Albania, Macedonia Montenegro or Serbia. Odessa, Bucharest, Chisinau are all less than 1 hour north. Greece is also right next door. Egypt is 2 hours to the south

So I think it's a good option for connections to a lot of places that wouldn't be so easily reached via other cities. And it really has a huge critical mass and lots of frequencies. You could take 10 passengers from 20 destinations and that adds up to enough to fill up a long-haul plane to the USA, without even thinking about O&D demand which is also significant.


While true, these passengers have the option of connecting to Denver via United, LH @ Frankfurt and LH also offered connection via Munich 5 times a week before COVID. TK has to compete against that. There is not a ton of VFR from Central/ Eastern Europe in Denver and what is there is dwarfed by South Asia and Middle East.

Subramanian


There are lots of secondary an tertiary cities in eastern Europe that are better connected to North America by TK than LH and other Star Alliance partners. I've looked at connecting to Odessa via other Star Alliance airlines. Instead of 15 to 17 hour itineraries from IAH either way, I find 20+ hour itineraries one way and 30 to 40+ hour itineraries the other way. TK schedules flights so connections to or from cities in tern Europe have 2 - 3 hour connection times with long haul flights to or from North America in either direction. Even then it requires at least one additional leg from IAH.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:28 am

ATCJesus wrote:
Still nothing I’ve seen on the Denver Airport social media channels talking about this flight. Normally they blast it about any additional flights.


There was very little substance from that 3 sentence press release. I am sure they want to make sure that wasn’t some kind of intern slip up, or this is actually going to happen. Seems very strange to make such a short presser. Probably just waiting on more detail.
 
emre787
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:59 pm

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:43 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
ATCJesus wrote:
Still nothing I’ve seen on the Denver Airport social media channels talking about this flight. Normally they blast it about any additional flights.


There was very little substance from that 3 sentence press release. I am sure they want to make sure that wasn’t some kind of intern slip up, or this is actually going to happen. Seems very strange to make such a short presser. Probably just waiting on more detail.


Brandon757 wrote:
Same way with DFW. They must be waiting for the start date to be announced.


That's because this wasn't really a press release, but a public disclosure for shareholders. TK is an airline that tells their plans in advance unlike other airlines which don't make a word about something until everything is set. So in conclusion, they may not even be in contact with those airports yet (which I doubt) or they're waiting until their understanding of "market conditions" are fulfilled.
 
LH658
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Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:49 pm

Great to see another Euro/Middle East carrier at DFW, after losing Etihad. I thought to see Seattle or Detroit before seeing them add Denver, I thought to see EK at DEN first. Well cheers to TK, hope it all works out.

The IAH flight does well, TK has a individual cargo flight to Houston as well. IAH flight had lot of energy traffic in the front cabin, and just passengers that could afford it. Back end of TK34 had Indian pax but not as much compared to others due to fact that TK only serves 2 cities in India, mainly lot of pax going to Iraq, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Iran.

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