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acavpics
Posts: 572
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:54 am

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:11 pm

For everyone surprised by these two additions, just remember that the service will almost certainly be less than daily. We can expect them to reduce the frequency to just 2 or 3 weekly or possibly even suspend service during the off-season.
I wouldn't be surprised if these routes remain seasonal for a few years before going year round or daily.
 
Delta28L
Posts: 466
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:42 pm

acavpics wrote:
For everyone surprised by these two additions, just remember that the service will almost certainly be less than daily. We can expect them to reduce the frequency to just 2 or 3 weekly or possibly even suspend service during the off-season.
I wouldn't be surprised if these routes remain seasonal for a few years before going year round or daily.


Denver would be seasonal service while they develop the market. Dallas would maintain year round service with seasonal adjustments along the way while they build market share.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5203
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:06 am

Yes den makes alot more sense to me then dfw.

Dfw has lots of competition to the cities you will connect too and since it's star alliance the dfw origin has to feed the entire flight. Denver offers a huge amount of connection options each small but you combined alot of markets
 
emre787
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:59 pm

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:11 am

acavpics wrote:
For everyone surprised by these two additions, just remember that the service will almost certainly be less than daily. We can expect them to reduce the frequency to just 2 or 3 weekly or possibly even suspend service during the off-season.
I wouldn't be surprised if these routes remain seasonal for a few years before going year round or daily.


Well, for the beginning, yes. TK is an airline that tests the waters first with few weekly frequencies, not like others who jump in with daily flights. My guess is DEN 3x weekly and DFW 4x weekly
 
kaitak
Posts: 10085
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Sun Jun 27, 2021 5:49 pm

First of all, it's great to see any airline expanding in this day and age. DEN was more of a surprise to me than DFW. I am surprised that TK, QR, EK and (to a lesser extent) EY have such large US networks, which don't yet include DTW. On the subject of DTW being a Skyteam hub, I'd have thought that would make EY the most likely of the big four to go there, as they'd be able to feed into the DL network there.

I know RJ has served DTW (albeit via YUL); don't know if they plan to return, but let's face it, it's a bit of a minnow compared to the other four.

Perhaps we are overstating the size of the M/E market in DTW. How big of a Muslim/ME population has Detroit (and Michigan) anyway?
 
B752OS
Posts: 1329
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:07 pm

DEN is interesting. I figure they would have made IST-MIA double daily, year round before something like this being added.
 
Rookinla
Posts: 286
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:57 am

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:10 pm

kaitak wrote:
First of all, it's great to see any airline expanding in this day and age. DEN was more of a surprise to me than DFW. I am surprised that TK, QR, EK and (to a lesser extent) EY have such large US networks, which don't yet include DTW. On the subject of DTW being a Skyteam hub, I'd have thought that would make EY the most likely of the big four to go there, as they'd be able to feed into the DL network there.

I know RJ has served DTW (albeit via YUL); don't know if they plan to return, but let's face it, it's a bit of a minnow compared to the other four.

Perhaps we are overstating the size of the M/E market in DTW. How big of a Muslim/ME population has Detroit (and Michigan) anyway?



First, EY is no longer in expansion mode. And any feed that they would have received from DL at DTW would be incidental and not cooperative. Just like TK and QR get in ATL. DL/AF can connect DTW passengers over CDG to many markets in the ME so they don’t want or need EY there.

RJ has served DTW because there is a large market to the ME. I think it’s fair to say that the demand is not overstated at all. There is substantial demand but most of the ME carriers are apprehensive to enter DTW because it is a very large fortress hub. Either TK or EK will enter at some point and that is likely when RJ will leave.
 
emre787
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:59 pm

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:04 pm

B752OS wrote:
DEN is interesting. I figure they would have made IST-MIA double daily, year round before something like this being added.


They recently added a lot of additional flights to their US destinations, e.g. MIA now gets 3x weekly more flights (total 10x weekly 787-9)
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26645
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:34 pm

B752OS wrote:
DEN is interesting. I figure they would have made IST-MIA double daily, year round before something like this being added.


MIAIST is already now at 10w. Double daily probably not far off.
 
AshFlops
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:56 pm

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:35 pm

Besides that one twitter link, there is nothing else noted anywhere else about these flights starting. Nothing in the Denver press. Was this a premature announcement or are the details still being ironed out?
 
Planes4you
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:35 pm

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:08 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Yes den makes alot more sense to me then dfw.

Dfw has lots of competition to the cities you will connect too and since it's star alliance the dfw origin has to feed the entire flight. Denver offers a huge amount of connection options each small but you combined alot of markets


Turkish is arguably one of the best managed airlines in the world. If they can make Atlanta(star alliance hub) work, they can make DFW work as well.
 
emre787
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:59 pm

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:24 pm

AshFlops wrote:
Besides that one twitter link, there is nothing else noted anywhere else about these flights starting. Nothing in the Denver press. Was this a premature announcement or are the details still being ironed out?


Only a public disclosure up until now

Planes4you wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Yes den makes alot more sense to me then dfw.

Dfw has lots of competition to the cities you will connect too and since it's star alliance the dfw origin has to feed the entire flight. Denver offers a huge amount of connection options each small but you combined alot of markets


Turkish is arguably one of the best managed airlines in the world. If they can make Atlanta(star alliance hub) work, they can make DFW work as well.


Skyteam you mean :)
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:50 pm

Planes4you wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Yes den makes alot more sense to me then dfw.

Dfw has lots of competition to the cities you will connect too and since it's star alliance the dfw origin has to feed the entire flight. Denver offers a huge amount of connection options each small but you combined alot of markets


Turkish is arguably one of the best managed airlines in the world. If they can make Atlanta(star alliance hub) work, they can make DFW work as well.

I agree that management likely did its homework before choosing Dallas. However, I find the comparison to Atlanta to be overly simplistic. Dallas and Atlanta are two completely different aviation markets with different demographics, different business environments, and with demand to/from different parts of the world. Just because Atlanta is also a non-alliance hub and succeeds, doesn’t mean Dallas will.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6430
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:52 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Yes den makes alot more sense to me then dfw.

Dfw has lots of competition to the cities you will connect too and since it's star alliance the dfw origin has to feed the entire flight. Denver offers a huge amount of connection options each small but you combined alot of markets


Turkish is arguably one of the best managed airlines in the world. If they can make Atlanta(star alliance hub) work, they can make DFW work as well.

I agree that management likely did its homework before choosing Dallas. However, I find the comparison to Atlanta to be overly simplistic. Dallas and Atlanta are two completely different aviation markets with different demographics, different business environments, and with demand to/from different parts of the world. Just because Atlanta is also a non-alliance hub and succeeds, doesn’t mean Dallas will.


Well, Dallas has more demand to the Subcontinent than Atlanta does. Thats going to be a huge part of what feeds flights from both. But DFW also has more competition.
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1959
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:54 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
subramak1 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
The thing about Istanbul, which makes it a bit different to Dubai and other Gulf airports, is that it lies about 4 hours closer to Europe.

In fact, it is right on the edge of the Balkans which means that it can offer connections not just to India and Africa etc but also to the Balkans, Eastern Europe and a lot of cities in Russia. It's something like a one hour flight to Albania, Macedonia Montenegro or Serbia. Odessa, Bucharest, Chisinau are all less than 1 hour north. Greece is also right next door. Egypt is 2 hours to the south

So I think it's a good option for connections to a lot of places that wouldn't be so easily reached via other cities. And it really has a huge critical mass and lots of frequencies. You could take 10 passengers from 20 destinations and that adds up to enough to fill up a long-haul plane to the USA, without even thinking about O&D demand which is also significant.


While true, these passengers have the option of connecting to Denver via United, LH @ Frankfurt and LH also offered connection via Munich 5 times a week before COVID. TK has to compete against that. There is not a ton of VFR from Central/ Eastern Europe in Denver and what is there is dwarfed by South Asia and Middle East.

Subramanian




There are lots of secondary an tertiary cities in eastern Europe that are better connected to North America by TK than LH and other Star Alliance partners. I've looked at connecting to Odessa via other Star Alliance airlines. Instead of 15 to 17 hour itineraries from IAH either way, I find 20+ hour itineraries one way and 30 to 40+ hour itineraries the other way. TK schedules flights so connections to or from cities in tern Europe have 2 - 3 hour connection times with long haul flights to or from North America in either direction. Even then it requires at least one additional leg from IAH.


Also there is Israel and Lebanon. Sure there are other options via Europe, but TK has multiple rotations every day and therefore convenient connections. The new airport also helps, as it is less overcrowded and presumably a lot more pleasant to connect in.

The thing is it's not just about central or Eastern Europe. It's half of Europe, plus almost anywhere in the Middle East, plus Iran, Russia, a lot of Asia, East Africa and Central Asia. Plus, of course, Turkey itself. So you could have an average of 5 passengers on each connecting flight in these regions and because there are so many of them this could fill up a 787 to Denver.
 
Kden95
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:55 pm

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:58 pm

Any more information on a formal announcement?
 
trexel94
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:44 pm

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:45 pm

Kden95 wrote:
Any more information on a formal announcement?

Agree, I’m beginning to think the memo was an internal slip up. A real bummer as I was really looking forward to TK. There was similar commotion a few years ago when everyone thought EI announcing DEN was imminent as well.
 
User avatar
adamh8297
Posts: 3295
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:29 pm

trexel94 wrote:
Kden95 wrote:
Any more information on a formal announcement?

Agree, I’m beginning to think the memo was an internal slip up. A real bummer as I was really looking forward to TK. There was similar commotion a few years ago when everyone thought EI announcing DEN was imminent as well.


Turkish Law requires TK to announce what destinations they are sniffing around. It could be 3-12 months before a formal announcement.
 
DEN2021
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:58 am

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:36 pm

Kden95 wrote:
Any more information on a formal announcement?


DEN employees were told last week by a senior leader at the airport that the announcement on the Turkish website was a "mistake" and that there are currently no definite plans for them to serve DEN.
 
trexel94
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:44 pm

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:02 pm

DEN2021 wrote:
Kden95 wrote:
Any more information on a formal announcement?


DEN employees were told last week by a senior leader at the airport that the announcement on the Turkish website was a "mistake" and that there are currently no definite plans for them to serve DEN.

Disappointing to hear. All that ballyhoo over nothing. TK would have made a great addition. We’ll land them eventually.
 
Brandon757
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:16 pm

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:07 pm

DEN2021 wrote:
Kden95 wrote:
Any more information on a formal announcement?


DEN employees were told last week by a senior leader at the airport that the announcement on the Turkish website was a "mistake" and that there are currently no definite plans for them to serve DEN.

Funny, I have a major source at DFW that has told me almost the opposite.
 
emre787
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:59 pm

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:47 pm

Brandon757 wrote:
DEN2021 wrote:
Kden95 wrote:
Any more information on a formal announcement?


DEN employees were told last week by a senior leader at the airport that the announcement on the Turkish website was a "mistake" and that there are currently no definite plans for them to serve DEN.

Funny, I have a major source at DFW that has told me almost the opposite.


To make it clear another time. TKs annoucement was not a mistake. They always do announce new destinations etc as a public disclosure on their investor website because turkish law requires them to do. They may not be in contact with DEN just yet (but already with DFW). That's the same reason why they write "based on market conditions" in the text.
 
DEN2021
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:58 am

Re: Turkish adding Dallas and Denver

Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:05 pm

emre787 wrote:
Brandon757 wrote:
DEN2021 wrote:

DEN employees were told last week by a senior leader at the airport that the announcement on the Turkish website was a "mistake" and that there are currently no definite plans for them to serve DEN.

Funny, I have a major source at DFW that has told me almost the opposite.


To make it clear another time. TKs annoucement was not a mistake. They always do announce new destinations etc as a public disclosure on their investor website because turkish law requires them to do. They may not be in contact with DEN just yet (but already with DFW). That's the same reason why they write "based on market conditions" in the text.


Just saying what senior airport leadership is telling employees. No need for any red angry font.

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