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Jshank83
Posts: 4458
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:34 am

This entire conversation has basically come down to who has a hub/focus city and thus a lot nonstops out of your home airport. That’s probably who business is going to skew towards for your location.

If you have the option of flying business/first than that probably does as well.

The article basically says they want to get more business in cities they are big in. Ie Austin/Nashville to NY. Not the people in New York. Which makes sense. They should be going after cities business travel in places they have a lot of flights or smaller cities where you are taking a connection no matter the airline.

Also one other side note about bags. It isn’t that bags fly free or you don’t pay for bags in the ticket price. It’s that you don’t pay an extra charge for bags tacked onto the listed price. So bags are included, if you like that phrasing better. If WN and AA for example have the same price and you are taking 2 bags. Then they aren’t the same because AA is going to charge more. That’s the entire point people make. So coming in and saying oh no bags aren’t free doesn’t change what matters, which is added fees on top of the list price. If you don’t like the wording that’s fine but you get what the actual point of it is.
Last edited by Jshank83 on Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
bobd6
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Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:44 am

mcdu wrote:
Wasn’t ORD seeing similar conditions and the carriers there faired much better it seems.


ORD had much better conditions than MDW on Saturday. ORD was only affected by the first line of storms of the day, whereas the storms pretty much trained on the south side of Chicago for the rest of the day, including tornados in the south suburbs. I'm not surprised WN was badly affected.
 
Elkadad313
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Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:57 am

usflyer msp wrote:
Yesterday unfortunately MDW had a good 7 hour stretch of tornado warning, watches and severe thunderstorms roll through tanking one of its biggest cities.

Wouldn't UA/AA have the same issue at ORD?

Severe weather is more common in the southern part of the Chicago metro area, commonly referred to as the 'I-80 corridor.' For example, just a few days ago MDW got about 1" rain in an hour and ORD had something like 0.16 inches. In some cases the opposite applies, but more often than not the farther south you go the chances of encountering severe weather is more likely.
 
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BMWdrvr75
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Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:03 am

Maybe Southwest could step it’s product up a bit and make “God for bid” a few changes to have that edge again…..maybe stop sitting on its laurels and stop remising about the good old days of the 737 200/300 Herb and Colleen…. maybe evolve like the airlines who were created because of Southwest (WestJet and JetBlue). Stop being mediocre and do better…. Maybe a sign seats, maybe if I am bored product, maybe chargers on board it’s OK to change and be better but all the Southwest fans are completely happy with the current model which is getting old real fast, 50 years is along time not to evolve and become better….it’s time to change a bit and be cutting edge again….
 
UA735WL
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Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:21 am

Spiderguy252 wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
Southwest: 48 years of profitability. No bankruptcy. No layoffs. Good return for long term investors exceeding every publicly traded airline except ALK by a lot.

Legacy Airlines: Years of profitability offset with years of staggering losses. Bankruptcy reorganizations, some multiple times. Many many rounds of layoffs, pay cuts, and reduced or lost pensions. Horrible return for long term investors.

Airliners.net logic: Southwest will fail unless they start copying from the legacy airlines.

Priceless.


Post of the thread.


Couldn't agree more.

For what it's worth, when I traveled for business, WN was absolutely the first choice. No change fees and only $30-40 to guarantee a good seat was exceptionally attractive to my employer. Rather amusingly, we rarely even booked Business Select- the person in charge of booking explained to me that a Wanna Get Away fare on WN essentially provided the same benefits that the company found important (again, the aforementioned lack of change fees plus high volume of nonstops that avoided hubs) at a fraction of the cost of a full fare legacy ticket.

Admittedly, we didn't work on the road- the trips were mostly gathering data to aid in consulting. WN certainly doesn't work for all business travelers, but you can't deny their appeal to *some*.
 
airzona11
Posts: 1886
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:59 am

Maybe in-seat power would be a low cost add, but I’m perplexed by Anet anecdotes in this thread. The high value sophisticated road warrior needs power because they don’t carry a power battery or they don’t have a new iPad, iPhone, or laptop with long battery life? Power would be a perk, but I can’t see any airline losing or gaining customers or contracts based on power. Maybe I’m mistaken.

The next are lounges. Who that is a ‘road warrior’ is spending extra time in the airport that they need a lounge? If you’re talking LA-NYC transcontinental, I can see that, but WN will never compete in that space. Alaska with non lie flat seating is said to be uncompetitive, and that market is a bloodbath right now.

Assigned seating? First class? Different boarding? Is this a wish list to make WN like the legacies? Are we forgetting the financial comparison between legacies and WN?

My take is WN will expand their markets (ala Ohare/IAH) and going after Corp contracts. Maybe continue to evolve the WiFi (would love high speed). That is my biggest complaint, WN WiFi is unreliable. My iPad/Laptop/iPhone always have enough power, but the connectivity is spotty.

BMWdrvr75 wrote:
Maybe Southwest could step it’s product up a bit and make “God for bid” a few changes to have that edge again…..maybe stop sitting on its laurels and stop remising about the good old days of the 737 200/300 Herb and Colleen…. maybe evolve like the airlines who were created because of Southwest (WestJet and JetBlue). Stop being mediocre and do better…. Maybe a sign seats, maybe if I am bored product, maybe chargers on board it’s OK to change and be better but all the Southwest fans are completely happy with the current model which is getting old real fast, 50 years is along time not to evolve and become better….it’s time to change a bit and be cutting edge again….


Yet year in and year out, their model is the most consistently profitable. Cutting edge doesn’t make money in the airline business. Hence the consistent bankruptcy. Saying ‘Southwest fans’ isn’t calling out a small group, being they are the largest domestic airline.
 
SkyVoice
Posts: 500
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Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:10 am

UA735WL wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
Southwest: 48 years of profitability. No bankruptcy. No layoffs. Good return for long term investors exceeding every publicly traded airline except ALK by a lot.

Legacy Airlines: Years of profitability offset with years of staggering losses. Bankruptcy reorganizations, some multiple times. Many many rounds of layoffs, pay cuts, and reduced or lost pensions. Horrible return for long term investors.

Airliners.net logic: Southwest will fail unless they start copying from the legacy airlines.

Priceless.


Post of the thread.


Couldn't agree more.

For what it's worth, when I traveled for business, WN was absolutely the first choice. No change fees and only $30-40 to guarantee a good seat was exceptionally attractive to my employer. Rather amusingly, we rarely even booked Business Select- the person in charge of booking explained to me that a Wanna Get Away fare on WN essentially provided the same benefits that the company found important (again, the aforementioned lack of change fees plus high volume of nonstops that avoided hubs) at a fraction of the cost of a full fare legacy ticket.

Admittedly, we didn't work on the road- the trips were mostly gathering data to aid in consulting. WN certainly doesn't work for all business travelers, but you can't deny their appeal to *some*.


The preceding ENTIRE POST is a GRAND SLAM ! ! ! It tells the full, complete & unvarnished truth!

There is one suggestion that I will make for the sake of Southwest & its passengers. I keep reading about how many folks would like for WN to have USB power outlets at their seats. Well, I remember back in the Nineties, before the widespread availability of PCs & the internet, WN's jets had Airphones. (I can't remember if they were GTE's or AT&T's models). The phones were installed one each per set of three seats, fitted into the back of each center seat. The phones were very expensive to use & their sound quality was fair, at best. But I remember that I had to use one of those phones once to call my Aunt in Louisville to let her know that I would be arriving late. Now, if one Airphone for every three seats worked then, maybe one USB outlet for every three seats would work now! If two or more passengers wanted to use the outlet at the same time, they could use their own splitter (unless that would make the wires & the fittings too hot).

Would that work? :scratchchin:
 
bigb
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Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:49 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
About half of my intra-north America business travel is on WN, almost exclusively for schedule/frequency reasons, and several of the criticisms in this thread strike me as misguided.

Starting with frequency: why would anyone expect WN to match AA, UA, and DL in frequency in a market like CHI-NYC that is hub-hub for all of them but not WN? Look at CHI-HOU and the picture is much different.

My experience with close-in (2-4 hours before departure) bookings is that WN is much more consistent because status all but guarantees an aisle or window in the front half of the aircraft. Too often on legacies it’s a middle or a seat in the back because that’s all they have.

Passengers on full-fare tickets and/or with status gain nothing from checking in at T-24.

And while I have had lounge access on and off over the years for me it adds next to no value on the stage lengths WN flies. If I’m in the airport and not trying actively to get an earlier flight, I’m almost inevitably eating a meal or on a call/Zoom. Twenty years ago lounges were great for both of those activities but now, honestly, they aren’t suitable for either because of service reductions and crowds. It’s different for long haul but that’s not the sandbox WN plays in.


Well the WN product works for you. But for a lot of the business travelers it doesnt. WN already has you. But this topic is about WN changing its successful product to try and appeal to the other 95% of the market.

I am in the other 95%. I need lounge access, WiFi, seat blocking and stuff like that. Seat power is an absolute must in this day and age!

That said, I usually find myself on WN simply because they fly direct while UA/AA etc fly via someplace else. But where there is a direct competing flight, the choice is going to be UA/AA! My company pays for F/J class for flights > 3 hours because they expect us to work or atleast be available even while travelling.

Miles, Lounge access, Power - they matter. Thats why people stay loyal to airlines like UA even after they pull nasty stunts like "Basic Economy"!


Oh come on, stop it. WN has capture far more that 5 percent of the business markets in n the cities that that serve. Sure there is still large number out there that can be captured, however it will be difficult to do so without serving international markets.
 
XT6Wagon
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Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:49 am

Iloveboeing wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/exclusive-southwest-wants-business-travelers-and-will-double-down-on-them-as-it-recovers-from-the-pandemic/



WN has historically not been a business airline. They were focused on offering low fares to families and making air travel more affordable. They were unconventional and that’s what people loved about them.


What? They were always a Business airline with walkup fares that were reasonable and seats that were available.
 
graceintheair
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2021 4:11 am

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:14 am

I work as a flight attendant on private charters and like the simplicity that Southwest offers. I don't have to worry about bags if I need them or remembering a bunch of different ticket policies. I think they will eventually put power at every seat. Free WiFi would be nice too.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:56 am

Cubsrule wrote:
But I’m not sure why you’d package them other than for effect.

That's because you're overthinking it. Because, quite frankly: what good is wifi, for something on low battery?

And in a perfect world, sure everyone would just have everything fully charged and prepped for WN's rather goofy oversight (intentional or not) in that regard; but unfortunately, it's rather easy for that to not be the case.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:32 am

Southwest advertised prominently to business people in the 90s didn't they? (like an ad they had in the 90s featuring the CEO of one of the big car companies for the Detroit market)?
 
mcdu
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Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:01 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
Southwest advertised prominently to business people in the 90s didn't they? (like an ad they had in the 90s featuring the CEO of one of the big car companies for the Detroit market)?


Advertising to businesses and being a business traveler airline is a lot different. The demands and desires of business travelers has changed since the 90’s. There were no cellphones, lie flat seats domestically and the amount of lounges that are on offer by competitors. Sure SWA may have started as a business airline it just morphed to the cheap airline that families want to fly because they think they are getting a bargain.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10690
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:22 pm

Iloveboeing wrote:
WN has historically not been a business airline.


Tell that to all their competitors that have fought and died on the DAL-HOU route over the years. It's substantially business. Even died-in-the-wool AA fliers would seriously-consider jumping on WN at Love Field, because it left basically every half-hour, boarded quickly, and got you there fast.

And a lot of business fliers followed Southwest as it slowly expanded its ability to fly to other states. To say that it isn't loaded with business travelers is just wrong. Allegiant, yeah, few business fliers. WN, a lot of business fliers, and a lot of things aimed at business fliers.

Because business fliers are not a monolithic group, some value some things over others. Some people want lie-flat seats and lounges and all that stuff at extra price, others do not. When I was in my 20s, I thought lounges were cool. Now I never use them, ever. Waste of time.
Last edited by wjcandee on Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
bfitzflyer
Posts: 521
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:02 am

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:23 pm

I don't mind southwest and their product is overall fine. I travel occasionally for business, but not a lot. In order, what would help with frequent business travelers:

1) Change the boarding process, don't want o worry about checking in exactly 24 hours or before or paying extra to guarantee a decent seat.
2) Although I am a fan or not having to use my own device on an airplane and just watch seat back video, more importantly these days would be ability to plug in at a seat if I do need to use a device.
3) Lounges in key business cities, would be helpful if you do need to get something done on the ground.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:29 pm

mcdu wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
Southwest advertised prominently to business people in the 90s didn't they? (like an ad they had in the 90s featuring the CEO of one of the big car companies for the Detroit market)?


Advertising to businesses and being a business traveler airline is a lot different. The demands and desires of business travelers has changed since the 90’s. There were no cellphones, lie flat seats domestically and the amount of lounges that are on offer by competitors. Sure SWA may have started as a business airline it just morphed to the cheap airline that families want to fly because they think they are getting a bargain.


What you're missing here (and you aren't the only one in this thread) is that business travelers have very different needs on stage lengths of an hour or two than we do on long-haul. On short flights, it's frequency and flexibility, and WN delivers there and can match or beat the legacies in many (not all) markets. I don't need a lie-flat on DEN-LAX or LGA-ATL.
 
mcdu
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Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:59 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
Southwest advertised prominently to business people in the 90s didn't they? (like an ad they had in the 90s featuring the CEO of one of the big car companies for the Detroit market)?


Advertising to businesses and being a business traveler airline is a lot different. The demands and desires of business travelers has changed since the 90’s. There were no cellphones, lie flat seats domestically and the amount of lounges that are on offer by competitors. Sure SWA may have started as a business airline it just morphed to the cheap airline that families want to fly because they think they are getting a bargain.


What you're missing here (and you aren't the only one in this thread) is that business travelers have very different needs on stage lengths of an hour or two than we do on long-haul. On short flights, it's frequency and flexibility, and WN delivers there and can match or beat the legacies in many (not all) markets. I don't need a lie-flat on DEN-LAX or LGA-ATL.


On short flights would a business traveler like the opportunity to have a complimentary upgrade to first class or even the option to buy first class? Do short flight business travelers not want extra legroom that the other airlines offer or the early boarding by not having to stand in a line? Lie flats are just one more thing that sets the other carriers apart. If you only build your airline for short haul business travelers you will lose them on the trans cons and that leads to them leaving you for shorter flights.

Southwest itself has geared their advertising to the leisure traveler. Not too many business travelers are in the, “want to get away” audience. They are traveling to make a living not to escape to a vacation.
 
USAirALB
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Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:12 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Not showing up in corporate travel platforms is probably a big detriment.

For me, I think the hardest thing about WN would be that AFAIK their frequent flyer program lacks any international partners or ability to use points to travel overseas.


Well most of their "hubs" are located in secondary airports that don't have the long runways needed for long haul international flights. It would take me at least 2 flights on WN to get to an airport that has international flights on other airlines to which I could connect.

I don't think you understand what I said...I specifically mentioned "international partners or ability to use points to travel overseas", nothing about codesharing or WN flying overseas. Each of WN's "hubs" is located in a metro area that has intercontinental service at either WN's "hub" airport or an alternate airport. Your situation is likely unique and I don't know where you are based, but just because it wouldn't be convenient for you doesn't mean WN loyalists in their key cities (which all happen to have intercontinental service abroad) wouldn't like to use their points for travel overseas. Not that it matters, but the only WN "hub" airport with a short runway is MDW. All their operating bases with the exception of DAL/HOU/MDW either have or at one point had international long-haul service.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I know some people who blow their miles/points at every chance they can and refuse to pay for airfare whenever possible. I would much rather save points/miles to take an international trip that I probably wouldn't be able to take otherwise.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15270
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:15 pm

mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:

Advertising to businesses and being a business traveler airline is a lot different. The demands and desires of business travelers has changed since the 90’s. There were no cellphones, lie flat seats domestically and the amount of lounges that are on offer by competitors. Sure SWA may have started as a business airline it just morphed to the cheap airline that families want to fly because they think they are getting a bargain.


What you're missing here (and you aren't the only one in this thread) is that business travelers have very different needs on stage lengths of an hour or two than we do on long-haul. On short flights, it's frequency and flexibility, and WN delivers there and can match or beat the legacies in many (not all) markets. I don't need a lie-flat on DEN-LAX or LGA-ATL.


On short flights would a business traveler like the opportunity to have a complimentary upgrade to first class or even the option to buy first class? Do short flight business travelers not want extra legroom that the other airlines offer or the early boarding by not having to stand in a line? Lie flats are just one more thing that sets the other carriers apart. If you only build your airline for short haul business travelers you will lose them on the trans cons and that leads to them leaving you for shorter flights.

Southwest itself has geared their advertising to the leisure traveler. Not too many business travelers are in the, “want to get away” audience. They are traveling to make a living not to escape to a vacation.


Would I like an upgrade? Of course. Would I like an upgrade enough that I'll add a minimum of three hours plus a connection to my trip? No, nor would most other business travelers. You have to remember that - unlike pilots and flight attendants - most of us don't get paid when we're sitting around because the plane is delayed.
 
sprxUSA
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:35 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

What you're missing here (and you aren't the only one in this thread) is that business travelers have very different needs on stage lengths of an hour or two than we do on long-haul. On short flights, it's frequency and flexibility, and WN delivers there and can match or beat the legacies in many (not all) markets. I don't need a lie-flat on DEN-LAX or LGA-ATL.


On short flights would a business traveler like the opportunity to have a complimentary upgrade to first class or even the option to buy first class? Do short flight business travelers not want extra legroom that the other airlines offer or the early boarding by not having to stand in a line? Lie flats are just one more thing that sets the other carriers apart. If you only build your airline for short haul business travelers you will lose them on the trans cons and that leads to them leaving you for shorter flights.

Southwest itself has geared their advertising to the leisure traveler. Not too many business travelers are in the, “want to get away” audience. They are traveling to make a living not to escape to a vacation.


Would I like an upgrade? Of course. Would I like an upgrade enough that I'll add a minimum of three hours plus a connection to my trip? No, nor would most other business travelers. You have to remember that - unlike pilots and flight attendants - most of us don't get paid when we're sitting around because the plane is delayed.
 
hohd
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Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:52 pm

Pre-Covid, we were encouraged to book Southwest, but now since all major airlines also have the no change fee policy, I think we will see more booking away from Southwest. Also our corporate travel website does not show basic economy fares and does show the Ultra low cost airlines, but has a caution flag against it.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1696
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:21 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

What you're missing here (and you aren't the only one in this thread) is that business travelers have very different needs on stage lengths of an hour or two than we do on long-haul. On short flights, it's frequency and flexibility, and WN delivers there and can match or beat the legacies in many (not all) markets. I don't need a lie-flat on DEN-LAX or LGA-ATL.


On short flights would a business traveler like the opportunity to have a complimentary upgrade to first class or even the option to buy first class? Do short flight business travelers not want extra legroom that the other airlines offer or the early boarding by not having to stand in a line? Lie flats are just one more thing that sets the other carriers apart. If you only build your airline for short haul business travelers you will lose them on the trans cons and that leads to them leaving you for shorter flights.

Southwest itself has geared their advertising to the leisure traveler. Not too many business travelers are in the, “want to get away” audience. They are traveling to make a living not to escape to a vacation.


Would I like an upgrade? Of course. Would I like an upgrade enough that I'll add a minimum of three hours plus a connection to my trip? No, nor would most other business travelers. You have to remember that - unlike pilots and flight attendants - most of us don't get paid when we're sitting around because the plane is delayed.


Isn’t SWA still reeling from cancellations and huge delays almost two weeks after the computer issues? There are a lot of people having their travels disrupted and sitting on planes and in airports for hours from the SWA summer meltdown. That’s amlost time for business travelers and no lounge to escape the masses. Have you seen some of the news coverage from the daily DEN operational issues, delayed-canceled flights, no where to sit in the terminal because passengers are delayed for hours and hours?
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15270
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:25 pm

mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:

On short flights would a business traveler like the opportunity to have a complimentary upgrade to first class or even the option to buy first class? Do short flight business travelers not want extra legroom that the other airlines offer or the early boarding by not having to stand in a line? Lie flats are just one more thing that sets the other carriers apart. If you only build your airline for short haul business travelers you will lose them on the trans cons and that leads to them leaving you for shorter flights.

Southwest itself has geared their advertising to the leisure traveler. Not too many business travelers are in the, “want to get away” audience. They are traveling to make a living not to escape to a vacation.


Would I like an upgrade? Of course. Would I like an upgrade enough that I'll add a minimum of three hours plus a connection to my trip? No, nor would most other business travelers. You have to remember that - unlike pilots and flight attendants - most of us don't get paid when we're sitting around because the plane is delayed.


Isn’t SWA still reeling from cancellations and huge delays almost two weeks after the computer issues? There are a lot of people having their travels disrupted and sitting on planes and in airports for hours from the SWA summer meltdown. That’s amlost time for business travelers and no lounge to escape the masses. Have you seen some of the news coverage from the daily DEN operational issues, delayed-canceled flights, no where to sit in the terminal because passengers are delayed for hours and hours?


The travel experience is quite a lot different today than it was 18 months ago or will (IMO) be in a year. I'm not paying much attention, though I did book DL and WN preferentially when they were still blocking seats and others were not. (Two F seats for a 15 or 20 percent premium over cheap coach was a smoking hot deal of which I repeatedly took advantage.) All carriers have had their summers from hell - I'm guessing 2000 was before your time at United?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2506
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:20 pm

mcdu wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
capejet wrote:
Southwest canceled 307 flights yesterday (Saturday June 26) while AA canceled 82, United canceled 9 and Delta canceled 2. If this trend continues, in my opinion, business traffic will be flocking to United and Delta.


Yesterday unfortunately MDW had a good 7 hour stretch of
Tornado warning,watches and severe Thunderstorms roll through tanking one of its biggest cities.

Flyguy


Wasn’t ORD seeing similar conditions and the carriers there faired much better it seems.

Actually most of the storms tracked right a long interstate 55 staying mostly on the Southside of Chicago into Northwest Indiana so ORD saw very little disruption.

Flyguy
 
KarlB737
Posts: 2948
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:34 pm

capejet wrote:
Southwest canceled 307 flights yesterday (Saturday June 26) while AA canceled 82, United canceled 9 and Delta canceled 2. If this trend continues, in my opinion, business traffic will be flocking to United and Delta.


Courtesy: Airways Magazine

Southwest Airlines Cancels, Delays Hundreds Of Flights

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/southwest-cancels-delays-flights/
 
subramak1
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:21 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:36 pm

Even while travelling on cororate dime I preferred Southwest for few reasons

1. They offer more frequency on routes i travelled
2. Most of the routes I travelled where less 2.5 hrs where upgrades to first class did not make sense
3. Flexibility to change flights up until 10 minutes before flight was scheduled to leave, this was one less hassle.

On the other hand, If I was flying NYC SFO , I would prefer PS service from United,

Subramanian
 
AeroAndy
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:11 am

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:43 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

What you're missing here (and you aren't the only one in this thread) is that business travelers have very different needs on stage lengths of an hour or two than we do on long-haul. On short flights, it's frequency and flexibility, and WN delivers there and can match or beat the legacies in many (not all) markets. I don't need a lie-flat on DEN-LAX or LGA-ATL.


On short flights would a business traveler like the opportunity to have a complimentary upgrade to first class or even the option to buy first class? Do short flight business travelers not want extra legroom that the other airlines offer or the early boarding by not having to stand in a line? Lie flats are just one more thing that sets the other carriers apart. If you only build your airline for short haul business travelers you will lose them on the trans cons and that leads to them leaving you for shorter flights.

Southwest itself has geared their advertising to the leisure traveler. Not too many business travelers are in the, “want to get away” audience. They are traveling to make a living not to escape to a vacation.


Would I like an upgrade? Of course. Would I like an upgrade enough that I'll add a minimum of three hours plus a connection to my trip? No, nor would most other business travelers. You have to remember that - unlike pilots and flight attendants - most of us don't get paid when we're sitting around because the plane is delayed.


Flight Crews don't get payed until the Boarding Door is closed and/or the Parking Brake is released.....so if a flight is delayed for hours, the crew is on the same boat....
 
jco613
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:12 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:07 pm

Iloveboeing wrote:
I was once told that when companies forget what made them great, it leads to their eventual downfall.

WN has historically not been a business airline. They were focused on offering low fares to families and making air travel more affordable. They were unconventional and that’s what people loved about them


I understand where you are coming from here, but your point is not well made. WN literally started catering to ONLY business travelers. While they have evolved to serve many leisure PAX I wouldn't say an airline that (pre-covid) flies 20X HOU-DAL or 15X OAK-LAX is an airline that is NOT catering to business travelers.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1696
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:26 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

Would I like an upgrade? Of course. Would I like an upgrade enough that I'll add a minimum of three hours plus a connection to my trip? No, nor would most other business travelers. You have to remember that - unlike pilots and flight attendants - most of us don't get paid when we're sitting around because the plane is delayed.


Isn’t SWA still reeling from cancellations and huge delays almost two weeks after the computer issues? There are a lot of people having their travels disrupted and sitting on planes and in airports for hours from the SWA summer meltdown. That’s amlost time for business travelers and no lounge to escape the masses. Have you seen some of the news coverage from the daily DEN operational issues, delayed-canceled flights, no where to sit in the terminal because passengers are delayed for hours and hours?


The travel experience is quite a lot different today than it was 18 months ago or will (IMO) be in a year. I'm not paying much attention, though I did book DL and WN preferentially when they were still blocking seats and others were not. (Two F seats for a 15 or 20 percent premium over cheap coach was a smoking hot deal of which I repeatedly took advantage.) All carriers have had their summers from hell - I'm guessing 2000 was before your time at United?


Not before my time but it is 21 years ago….so that’s relevant to Southwest canceling and delaying thousands of flights today?
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15270
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:05 pm

mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:

Isn’t SWA still reeling from cancellations and huge delays almost two weeks after the computer issues? There are a lot of people having their travels disrupted and sitting on planes and in airports for hours from the SWA summer meltdown. That’s amlost time for business travelers and no lounge to escape the masses. Have you seen some of the news coverage from the daily DEN operational issues, delayed-canceled flights, no where to sit in the terminal because passengers are delayed for hours and hours?


The travel experience is quite a lot different today than it was 18 months ago or will (IMO) be in a year. I'm not paying much attention, though I did book DL and WN preferentially when they were still blocking seats and others were not. (Two F seats for a 15 or 20 percent premium over cheap coach was a smoking hot deal of which I repeatedly took advantage.) All carriers have had their summers from hell - I'm guessing 2000 was before your time at United?


Not before my time but it is 21 years ago….so that’s relevant to Southwest canceling and delaying thousands of flights today?


I'd say it's about equally relevant to what the experience will be once business travel is fully back. Take a look at your passenger mix - not too many suits or ties in evidence.
 
commpilot
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:21 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:15 pm

Iloveboeing wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/exclusive-southwest-wants-business-travelers-and-will-double-down-on-them-as-it-recovers-from-the-pandemic/

I was once told that when companies forget what made them great, it leads to their eventual downfall.

WN has historically not been a business airline. They were focused on offering low fares to families and making air travel more affordable. They were unconventional and that’s what people loved about them.

Now they’re trying to be more “business-like.” You can tell with the flight attendants’ new attire, with the men wearing suits and ties and the women wearing more dresses and pantsuits. What happened to the polos and khakis?

I think one thing that’s going to hurt WN in the long run is not equipping their aircraft with in-seat power outlets for all seats. I know they were trying to save money, but business travelers will definitely prefer power outlets. They rolled out their WiFi very well.

I pray they don’t start charging for bags.

Ummm historical Southwest was always a business airline. They have always catered to business passengers, their schedules and personal time. They were founded on that exact business plan.
 
737max8
Posts: 730
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:40 pm

AeroAndy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:

On short flights would a business traveler like the opportunity to have a complimentary upgrade to first class or even the option to buy first class? Do short flight business travelers not want extra legroom that the other airlines offer or the early boarding by not having to stand in a line? Lie flats are just one more thing that sets the other carriers apart. If you only build your airline for short haul business travelers you will lose them on the trans cons and that leads to them leaving you for shorter flights.

Southwest itself has geared their advertising to the leisure traveler. Not too many business travelers are in the, “want to get away” audience. They are traveling to make a living not to escape to a vacation.


Would I like an upgrade? Of course. Would I like an upgrade enough that I'll add a minimum of three hours plus a connection to my trip? No, nor would most other business travelers. You have to remember that - unlike pilots and flight attendants - most of us don't get paid when we're sitting around because the plane is delayed.


Flight Crews don't get payed until the Boarding Door is closed and/or the Parking Brake is released.....so if a flight is delayed for hours, the crew is on the same boat....


Biggest fallacy ever....just because pay is calculated by trips (flight time) doesn't mean you're not getting paid at work. You're also getting per diem at that time, aren't you?

It would be like saying a salaried employee who's pay is annually based is on the clock 24/7 365 days a year....
 
mcdu
Posts: 1696
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:01 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

The travel experience is quite a lot different today than it was 18 months ago or will (IMO) be in a year. I'm not paying much attention, though I did book DL and WN preferentially when they were still blocking seats and others were not. (Two F seats for a 15 or 20 percent premium over cheap coach was a smoking hot deal of which I repeatedly took advantage.) All carriers have had their summers from hell - I'm guessing 2000 was before your time at United?


Not before my time but it is 21 years ago….so that’s relevant to Southwest canceling and delaying thousands of flights today?



I'd say it's about equally relevant to what the experience will be once business travel is fully back. Take a look at your passenger mix - not too many suits or ties in evidence.


Not understanding the logic of the year 2000 to delays and cancels now at SWA. While that was a brutal summer for thunderstorms that wasn’t what was portrayed as the cause. If you want to discuss the history of the year 2000 maybe we should start a new topic.

I don’t see a lot of suits and ties but I don’t think you see a lot of those in businesses anymore. What I have seen is a large increase in the high value customers returning and that is a great sign. In my opinion you can spot the business traveler from having bags that fit in overheads and under seats and they know how to hold their phone boarding pass over the gate reader while balancing a Starbucks and talking on their AirPods.
 
Chemist
Posts: 935
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:46 am

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:07 pm

Re: Power at seats. Buy a $25 battery pack. Your first free checked bag saves you money for that. Is that really so tough?
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15270
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:15 pm

mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:

Not before my time but it is 21 years ago….so that’s relevant to Southwest canceling and delaying thousands of flights today?



I'd say it's about equally relevant to what the experience will be once business travel is fully back. Take a look at your passenger mix - not too many suits or ties in evidence.


Not understanding the logic of the year 2000 to delays and cancels now at SWA. While that was a brutal summer for thunderstorms that wasn’t what was portrayed as the cause. If you want to discuss the history of the year 2000 maybe we should start a new topic.

I don’t see a lot of suits and ties but I don’t think you see a lot of those in businesses anymore. What I have seen is a large increase in the high value customers returning and that is a great sign. In my opinion you can spot the business traveler from having bags that fit in overheads and under seats and they know how to hold their phone boarding pass over the gate reader while balancing a Starbucks and talking on their AirPods.


Coming back =/= back. Business travel is coming back, but it's still a long way from being back.
 
airzona11
Posts: 1886
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:15 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
But I’m not sure why you’d package them other than for effect.

That's because you're overthinking it. Because, quite frankly: what good is wifi, for something on low battery?

And in a perfect world, sure everyone would just have everything fully charged and prepped for WN's rather goofy oversight (intentional or not) in that regard; but unfortunately, it's rather easy for that to not be the case.


But what ‘road warrior’ doesn’t have long battery life devices or a cheap external battery that fits in their pocket or backpack? I get it’s a cheap option they can add and I’d they do great, but is there tangible purchasing decisions made for flights based on this? What’s their average stage length?
 
bigb
Posts: 1417
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:26 pm

737max8 wrote:
AeroAndy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

Would I like an upgrade? Of course. Would I like an upgrade enough that I'll add a minimum of three hours plus a connection to my trip? No, nor would most other business travelers. You have to remember that - unlike pilots and flight attendants - most of us don't get paid when we're sitting around because the plane is delayed.


Flight Crews don't get payed until the Boarding Door is closed and/or the Parking Brake is released.....so if a flight is delayed for hours, the crew is on the same boat....


Biggest fallacy ever....just because pay is calculated by trips (flight time) doesn't mean you're not getting paid at work. You're also getting per diem at that time, aren't you?

It would be like saying a salaried employee who's pay is annually based is on the clock 24/7 365 days a year....


Sure, you can call 2-3 dollars/hr per diem as pay. But unless your contract has some form of Duty or Trip rigs, flight crews don’t make money until that door is shut and parking brake is released. So no, it’s not a fallacy. Flights crews don’t get paid to sit around and wait when flights are delayed unless we are on the tarmac already on the a/c with the doors shut and parking brake release.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15270
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:29 pm

bigb wrote:
737max8 wrote:
AeroAndy wrote:

Flight Crews don't get payed until the Boarding Door is closed and/or the Parking Brake is released.....so if a flight is delayed for hours, the crew is on the same boat....


Biggest fallacy ever....just because pay is calculated by trips (flight time) doesn't mean you're not getting paid at work. You're also getting per diem at that time, aren't you?

It would be like saying a salaried employee who's pay is annually based is on the clock 24/7 365 days a year....


Sure, you can call 2-3 dollars/hr per diem as pay. But unless your contract has some form of Duty or Trip rigs, flight crews don’t make money until that door is shut and parking brake is released. So no, it’s not a fallacy. Flights crews don’t get paid to sit around and wait when flights are delayed unless we are on the tarmac already on the a/c with the doors shut and parking brake release.


But this is all sort of peripheral. You get paid through a tarmac delay. I don't.
 
bigb
Posts: 1417
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:00 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
bigb wrote:
737max8 wrote:

Biggest fallacy ever....just because pay is calculated by trips (flight time) doesn't mean you're not getting paid at work. You're also getting per diem at that time, aren't you?

It would be like saying a salaried employee who's pay is annually based is on the clock 24/7 365 days a year....


Sure, you can call 2-3 dollars/hr per diem as pay. But unless your contract has some form of Duty or Trip rigs, flight crews don’t make money until that door is shut and parking brake is released. So no, it’s not a fallacy. Flights crews don’t get paid to sit around and wait when flights are delayed unless we are on the tarmac already on the a/c with the doors shut and parking brake release.


But this is all sort of peripheral. You get paid through a tarmac delay. I don't.


In sorry that you don’t. When we are on the tarmac with the door shut and parking release. We are doing our jobs of operating the flight even if we dealing a tarmac delay so yes. It’s fair that flight crews get paid while on the tarmac.

We do not get paid for sitting around in the terminal dealing with delayed flights as well. We get just as frustrated with delays as passengers as well.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15270
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:08 pm

bigb wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
bigb wrote:

Sure, you can call 2-3 dollars/hr per diem as pay. But unless your contract has some form of Duty or Trip rigs, flight crews don’t make money until that door is shut and parking brake is released. So no, it’s not a fallacy. Flights crews don’t get paid to sit around and wait when flights are delayed unless we are on the tarmac already on the a/c with the doors shut and parking brake release.


But this is all sort of peripheral. You get paid through a tarmac delay. I don't.


In sorry that you don’t. When we are on the tarmac with the door shut and parking release. We are doing our jobs of operating the flight even if we dealing a tarmac delay so yes. It’s fair that flight crews get paid while on the tarmac.

We do not get paid for sitting around in the terminal dealing with delayed flights as well. We get just as frustrated with delays as passengers as well.


Again, you're arguing with a straw man. I never said - and do not believe - that crew should not be paid during delays.
 
bigb
Posts: 1417
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:15 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
bigb wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

But this is all sort of peripheral. You get paid through a tarmac delay. I don't.


In sorry that you don’t. When we are on the tarmac with the door shut and parking release. We are doing our jobs of operating the flight even if we dealing a tarmac delay so yes. It’s fair that flight crews get paid while on the tarmac.

We do not get paid for sitting around in the terminal dealing with delayed flights as well. We get just as frustrated with delays as passengers as well.


Again, you're arguing with a straw man. I never said - and do not believe - that crew should not be paid during delays.


I am not trying to argue anything, I am just trying to clear fallacies that flight crews get paid even with delays. That is not always the case.
 
Lootess
Posts: 695
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:21 pm

WN had been displaying fares on corporate GDS for awhile now. Companies bit the bullet and added SWABIZ to their travel options for a long time, but what that did also was embed loyalty because some employees would just look for a fare there and book it without comparing or searching the corporate travel site for other discounted fares. Maybe they lived in a place like DFW and that was convenient to do all their travel from DAL as well. They got away with the whole "if you want our fares, you need to use our systems" for such a long time, but now the competition has caught up, and there are better routes and fare options than WN in many markets.

Like I mentioned previously, I do think Bob needs to revisit the power outlet debate because they want to fly those 5 hour routes from mainland to Hawaii. Alaska, Delta, United, all their competitors got this base covered. Namely Alaska which is their prime enemy on those routes. I get they are probably going with the whole bags fly free with us, and you know you pack bags to Hawaii. But legacy elites have always gotten free bags, so this benefit for a business traveler is minimal at best.

Business Select fares was a game changer to me on accepting WN as an option. The ability to book a last minute fare to get somewhere and get A15, along with a drink certainly took the stress out of your day. The old boarding system was chaotic, and not business friendly. Check-in line, automatic check-in for A-List was a smart move. The only way they can go up in my opinion is some hybrid of an assigned seat system. Because if you are late to the gate as business select, you are at the mercy of C-tier.

Business people don't mind spending points or $500 cash for a lounge membership. The productivity boost from being relaxed, not having crying babies at the gate, power outlets, drinks and real food is always helpful. Being able to still be billable while at the airport is something a lot of non-business types seem to not realize why the lounges are key.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15270
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:33 pm

Lootess wrote:
Business people don't mind spending points or $500 cash for a lounge membership. The productivity boost from being relaxed, not having crying babies at the gate, power outlets, drinks and real food is always helpful. Being able to still be billable while at the airport is something a lot of non-business types seem to not realize why the lounges are key.


Keep in mind that when we talk about WN and business travelers, we are necessarily talking mostly about travelers who use different carriers for different parts of their flying. For us, it's not really $500 cash for a lounge membership because we need (or would need) a membership for each carrier since nobody allows access to those who aren't flying the "umbrella" airline/alliance anymore. That's one of the reasons I don't hold any airline lounge membership.
 
bkflyguy
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:25 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:33 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Are lounges, assigned seats and premium class seats really that necessary for attracting corporate accounts ? For most corporations, on a flight under about 5 hours, the important things are cost, reliability and suitable flight times.

If a company set a travel policy as an experiment over a limited period of 12 months of "Fly Southwest and we give you a $75 voucher at a supermarket, or fly AA/DL/UA - employee and their boss get to choose" - what would employees pick ? After 12 months corporation can review (and modify) their travel policy...

On a 3 hour flight, a person might spend max 1.5 hours using a laptop after allowing for no-laptop times like taxiing, ascent, descent and eating food. A laptop battery will last at least 2 hours before recharging

The CFO or COO of a company doesn't care if an employee misses out on an hour in a lounge


A whole $75 supermarket voucher??? I'd still choose DL or AA, in that order. As a business traveler, what counts for me is schedule, non-stop flight, assigned seating, Y+ and an opportunity for an F upgrade in that order.
 
Lootess
Posts: 695
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:40 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Lootess wrote:
Business people don't mind spending points or $500 cash for a lounge membership. The productivity boost from being relaxed, not having crying babies at the gate, power outlets, drinks and real food is always helpful. Being able to still be billable while at the airport is something a lot of non-business types seem to not realize why the lounges are key.


Keep in mind that when we talk about WN and business travelers, we are necessarily talking mostly about travelers who use different carriers for different parts of their flying. For us, it's not really $500 cash for a lounge membership because we need (or would need) a membership for each carrier since nobody allows access to those who aren't flying the "umbrella" airline/alliance anymore. That's one of the reasons I don't hold any airline lounge membership.


There are certainly business travelers loyal to WN especially in hub or focus city markets, and there are times they have to go somewhere they don't fly. Like you need to go to TLH being based in DFW region, going to have to take AA. But overall there is business travel loyalty based on business assignments, frequencies, and markets they are in.

There are things like lounge pass and American Express platinum that have access to multiple lounges, that can be an option. Or if they ever want to pursue a more advanced venture with Chase. Like they could offer a more premium, higher-annual fee credit card that has the lounge benefit which both the carrier and card company profit from like the Delta Reserve.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15270
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:46 pm

Lootess wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Lootess wrote:
Business people don't mind spending points or $500 cash for a lounge membership. The productivity boost from being relaxed, not having crying babies at the gate, power outlets, drinks and real food is always helpful. Being able to still be billable while at the airport is something a lot of non-business types seem to not realize why the lounges are key.


Keep in mind that when we talk about WN and business travelers, we are necessarily talking mostly about travelers who use different carriers for different parts of their flying. For us, it's not really $500 cash for a lounge membership because we need (or would need) a membership for each carrier since nobody allows access to those who aren't flying the "umbrella" airline/alliance anymore. That's one of the reasons I don't hold any airline lounge membership.


There are certainly business travelers loyal to WN especially in hub or focus city markets, and there are times they have to go somewhere they don't fly. Like you need to go to TLH being based in DFW region, going to have to take AA. But overall there is business travel loyalty based on business assignments, frequencies, and markets they are in.

There are things like lounge pass and American Express platinum that have access to multiple lounges, that can be an option. Or if they ever want to pursue a more advanced venture with Chase. Like they could offer a more premium, higher-annual fee credit card that has the lounge benefit which both the carrier and card company profit from like the Delta Reserve.


I imagine that most of those who would be receptive to the sort of luring you envision already have Platinum cards. But maybe I'm misreading that.
 
Shakinthefat
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 6:56 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:01 pm

In order it’s flight availability, seat selection, upgrade, power ports, lounge. WN has a way to go on some of those priorities.
WN’s domestic yield could definitely use a business passenger bump but they’ve never made the effort in 50 yrs.
 
User avatar
flyingclrs727
Posts: 2811
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:10 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

The travel experience is quite a lot different today than it was 18 months ago or will (IMO) be in a year. I'm not paying much attention, though I did book DL and WN preferentially when they were still blocking seats and others were not. (Two F seats for a 15 or 20 percent premium over cheap coach was a smoking hot deal of which I repeatedly took advantage.) All carriers have had their summers from hell - I'm guessing 2000 was before your time at United?


Not before my time but it is 21 years ago….so that’s relevant to Southwest canceling and delaying thousands of flights today?


I'd say it's about equally relevant to what the experience will be once business travel is fully back. Take a look at your passenger mix - not too many suits or ties in evidence.


Look at the A and B boarding groups. There are lots of business people in them, especially in the A group. Also look at the first and last flights of the day. Many of those even in the C group are traveling on business.
 
bob75013
Posts: 1092
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:45 am

mcdu wrote:


Isn’t SWA still reeling from cancellations and huge delays almost two weeks after the computer issues? ?


Huh? It's been reeling from weather issues. The same weather that seems t have American reeling.

By the way, tell us again how Southwest was guaranteed to fail in Hawaii...
 
Wneast
Posts: 969
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: WN Wants To Attract Business Travelers

Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:52 am

I laugh at the people that think WN was destined to fail in Hawaii... well look now they are possessed to become the number one carrier in Hawaii with what’s still left to add next year with the max 7 they are on a role
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