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777luver
Topic Author
Posts: 587
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:03 pm

Swiss unveils premium economy to be introduced on its B777 aircraft from 2022 onwards. All 12 777s will get the new seats. It looks fantastic

https://swiss.newsmarket.com/english/pr ... 17eb025491
 
chonetsao
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:06 pm

It does appear there is no divider between PE and ordinary Y. Sort of strange when you consider all other airlines try to have a divider to make PE more exclusive (at least in Long Haul).
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4738
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:10 pm

chonetsao wrote:
It does appear there is no divider between PE and ordinary Y. Sort of strange when you consider all other airlines try to have a divider to make PE more exclusive (at least in Long Haul).


Not all airlines do that. Some just have a half screen that hangs from the ceiling.
 
Golf7GTI
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Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:11 pm

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:42 pm

Looks really good. I think a lot of people are willing to pay for PE.
 
CDGIAD
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:58 pm

It does look good and more comfortable than LH/OS Y+ seats, but the total lack of divider certainly removes a lot of the premium aspect. Meals look more like business Class than Economy, again the opposite of LH.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:00 pm

Only the 777s?

Haven’t been following Swiss fleet development, but they have 19 330s/340s. Are they overhauling those too?

Or is this targeting only O&D on established 777 routes?

Otherwise, seat looks okay. Good that it has a calf rest; fixed shell / sliding seat will probably cause more than a few neck / headaches for pax unless they figure out the headrest piece (did AF figure out theirs?). Catering looks pretty much LH PY to me.

Not surprised by lack of divider. LH Group ramming home the message that PY is still just Y is consistent with its general contempt for Y pax. Not like putting up a divider would cost them anything. Maybe this will be like the mid-2000s PTVs in Y saga, when better carriers forced them to improve.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:15 pm

Interesting that it will have it's own catering seeing as premium economy on LH gets the same service as economy.
 
ben7x
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:58 am

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:27 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
Interesting that it will have it's own catering seeing as premium economy on LH gets the same service as economy.


No, on LH you actually don’t get the same food as in Y. The dishes as example, have a much higher quality than in Y. The bowls, where the food is served in are porcelain, instead of these alu-bowls in Y. So Swiss‘ PE Food is quit similar to LH.
 
ben7x
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:58 am

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:30 pm

Some more insights: https://www.aerotelegraph.com/das-ist-d ... ansa-group
This seat will be featured on all LH planes and replace the current PE seat. Apart from the colours, the seats will all be the same within the group.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:23 pm

I find it funny how many airlines are getting rid of first class but still end up with three cabin classes. Business class if the old first class, and premium economy is the old business class.
 
EMB170
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:16 pm

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:13 pm

Looks nice. As far as the A330/A340 fleet is concerned, could it be a case of they won't get the new W seat as they are gradually replaced with 787-9s or A350s (which, presumably would come with the seats installed)? Maybe it's simply a case of the 77Ws are getting them reinstalled as they will be around awhile longer.

Isn't AF going to a new W seat (not like the SU-style ones they have) beginning with the A350s, as well?
 
RvA
Posts: 519
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:19 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
I find it funny how many airlines are getting rid of first class but still end up with three cabin classes. Business class if the old first class, and premium economy is the old business class.


Not sure I follow that in this context, is Swiss not having four classes on board?
 
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usxguy
Posts: 1958
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:25 pm

when I flew LH in Y+ from JFK/FRA I recall a much better meal experience than in Y.

But was a bit... disappointed in the fact the only thing that made it "premium" was the seats and meal. Same boarding call. No divider, etc.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2662
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:35 pm

I have always found service in LX to be quite good, especially in Y. I've always enjoyed their menus in both J and Y, and I have been impressed by the quality of the food in Y in particular on flights departing Switzerland. Even though it's just a marketing gimmick, I like how they have placed great emphasis on branding their food in Y under their own unified "Swiss Food" brand. The food presented looks similar to their European business class meals.

I just hope they don't dilute their Y product as a result of introducing Premium Y.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4738
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:37 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I have always found service in LX to be quite good, especially in Y. I've always enjoyed their menus in both J and Y, and I have been impressed by the quality of the food in Y in particular on flights departing Switzerland. Even though it's just a marketing gimmick, I like how they have placed great emphasis on branding their food in Y under their own unified "Swiss Food" brand. The food presented looks similar to their European business class meals.

I just hope they don't dilute their Y product as a result of introducing Premium Y.


I've found LX to be quite good (great in business class, and pretty good in economy). The planes are always very clean and well kept and the crew are usually quite friendly. I'd argue LX is far better than LH overall and is the premium brand of the LH Group.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4738
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:44 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
I find it funny how many airlines are getting rid of first class but still end up with three cabin classes. Business class if the old first class, and premium economy is the old business class.


Because the differentiator between First and Business Class has eroded so much and corporations generally don't pay for First Class except in very specific circumstances.
 
Kent350787
Posts: 2039
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:57 pm

It will be interesting to see how comfotable the fixed shell seats are. I've flown PE on a couple of airlines and, while the fixed shell seats on JL guarantee you personal space, I don't know that they are as comfortable as a more traditional recline.

PE had been proving a big money spinner, and some airlines had added pre-Covid to get into this. QF had even expanded PE on its largest bird to rake in the $. Seems a sensible move by LX, and doing it on 77W only suggests the widebody fleet strategy doesn't include the older AB birds.
 
777luver
Topic Author
Posts: 587
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:01 am

Kent350787 wrote:
It will be interesting to see how comfotable the fixed shell seats are. I've flown PE on a couple of airlines and, while the fixed shell seats on JL guarantee you personal space, I don't know that they are as comfortable as a more traditional recline.

PE had been proving a big money spinner, and some airlines had added pre-Covid to get into this. QF had even expanded PE on its largest bird to rake in the $. Seems a sensible move by LX, and doing it on 77W only suggests the widebody fleet strategy doesn't include the older AB birds.


In regards to your widebody comment, it doesn't
necessarily mean the older Airbuses won't stick around
 
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Aesma
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Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:25 am

Nobody to say all Y seats should be like that ?
 
RvA
Posts: 519
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:12 am

Aesma wrote:
Nobody to say all Y seats should be like that ?


Why should they?
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:23 am

very nice
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:40 am

Aesma wrote:
Nobody to say all Y seats should be like that ?


All Y seats should be like that. All Y fares should be like that too.
 
xwb777
Posts: 1212
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 pm

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:33 am

In comparison, EK PE seats looks more comfortable!
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4738
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:58 am

777luver wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
It will be interesting to see how comfotable the fixed shell seats are. I've flown PE on a couple of airlines and, while the fixed shell seats on JL guarantee you personal space, I don't know that they are as comfortable as a more traditional recline.

PE had been proving a big money spinner, and some airlines had added pre-Covid to get into this. QF had even expanded PE on its largest bird to rake in the $. Seems a sensible move by LX, and doing it on 77W only suggests the widebody fleet strategy doesn't include the older AB birds.


In regards to your widebody comment, it doesn't
necessarily mean the older Airbuses won't stick around


Think the A340-300's, which are the older Airbus wide bodies are sticking around as they've been overhauled. The A330-300s are newer, delivered between 2010 and 2012.
 
NZ321
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Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:28 am

Fixed shell premium econ ain't as comfortable in my experience. Photos look okay but nothing exciting. I guess they decided they wanted Premium Econ but they didn't want to sacrifice a row of Econ for a sensible divider and extra Premium Econ pitch (40-42). That's a bit odd to me from this airline that positions itself more toward the quality end of the spectrum. But still, an improvement long overdue.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2371
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:59 pm

NZ321 wrote:
Fixed shell premium econ ain't as comfortable in my experience. Photos look okay but nothing exciting. I guess they decided they wanted Premium Econ but they didn't want to sacrifice a row of Econ for a sensible divider and extra Premium Econ pitch (40-42). That's a bit odd to me from this airline that positions itself more toward the quality end of the spectrum. But still, an improvement long overdue.


The lack of cabin divider is by design. The LH group has always had some kind of fear of Y+ cannibalizing their relatively weak J products - especially on day flights, so ramming home the message that PY is just glorified Y is a core part of their strategy. It’s meant to be a slightly more comfortable seat, nothing more.

Yes, they’ll try to “position” this as, to wit:

“In international comparison terms, our SWISS Premium Economy Class is very clearly positioned as a top travel product.”

But that’s just noise to keep the LX faithful happy. LX executives know it’s not a “top travel product”; it’s a fairly average one. They probably know that’s true for their J product too, as much as they like to pretend to be on “the quality end of the spectrum”.
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 744
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:06 pm

ben7x wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
Interesting that it will have it's own catering seeing as premium economy on LH gets the same service as economy.


No, on LH you actually don’t get the same food as in Y. The dishes as example, have a much higher quality than in Y. The bowls, where the food is served in are porcelain, instead of these alu-bowls in Y. So Swiss‘ PE Food is quit similar to LH.

The food on LH is exactly the same... it may be served in dishes, but its the same food offerings. There's nothing 'premium' about it.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2371
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:19 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
ben7x wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
Interesting that it will have it's own catering seeing as premium economy on LH gets the same service as economy.


No, on LH you actually don’t get the same food as in Y. The dishes as example, have a much higher quality than in Y. The bowls, where the food is served in are porcelain, instead of these alu-bowls in Y. So Swiss‘ PE Food is quit similar to LH.

The food on LH is exactly the same... it may be served in dishes, but its the same food offerings. There's nothing 'premium' about it.


The main meal is the same, albeit better presented.

The second meal/breakfast/snack/whatever is different. Think they were planning to shake this up though.
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:53 pm

It seems Swiss is jumping on the four-class cabin config bandwagon too. Could definitely be competitive thing going on here, because KL is also planning to roll out a Premium Economy class in 2022 on their 777's.
 
raylee67
Posts: 991
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:13 pm

Is it going to make the 777 4-class? Or SWISS would be removing First Class?
 
runway23
Posts: 2417
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:26 pm

raylee67 wrote:
Is it going to make the 777 4-class? Or SWISS would be removing First Class?


Premium Economy is removing a few rows in economy (rows 22 to 26 on the 77W). First class stays.
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:28 pm

runway23 wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
Is it going to make the 777 4-class? Or SWISS would be removing First Class?


Premium Economy is removing a few rows in economy (rows 22 to 26 on the 77W). First class stays.



For reference: SWISS 77W four-class cabin layout >> https://www.swiss.com/us/en/discover/fleet/boeing
 
DUSZRH
Posts: 303
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:40 pm

NZ321 wrote:
Fixed shell premium econ ain't as comfortable in my experience. Photos look okay but nothing exciting. I guess they decided they wanted Premium Econ but they didn't want to sacrifice a row of Econ for a sensible divider and extra Premium Econ pitch (40-42).


Pitch is 49in in PY.
 
Kent350787
Posts: 2039
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:20 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
runway23 wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
Is it going to make the 777 4-class? Or SWISS would be removing First Class?


Premium Economy is removing a few rows in economy (rows 22 to 26 on the 77W). First class stays.



For reference: SWISS 77W four-class cabin layout >> https://www.swiss.com/us/en/discover/fleet/boeing


Mind you, the very nice 360deg video is of a 3-class bird, although the seat map is 4-class.
 
ewt340
Posts: 1465
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:30 am

Not a big fan of the fixed backshell, it reduces the pitch too much when the seat slide upfront to recline. The normal recliner seat might be a tad annoying sometimes, but it's still better than the fixed backshell design.
 
SwissCanuck
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:06 am

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:40 am

Kent350787 wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
runway23 wrote:

Premium Economy is removing a few rows in economy (rows 22 to 26 on the 77W). First class stays.



For reference: SWISS 77W four-class cabin layout >> https://www.swiss.com/us/en/discover/fleet/boeing


Mind you, the very nice 360deg video is of a 3-class bird, although the seat map is 4-class.


The video is from the LX77W launch a few years ago. PE is a retrofit.
 
qf002
Posts: 3695
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:24 pm

DUSZRH wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Fixed shell premium econ ain't as comfortable in my experience. Photos look okay but nothing exciting. I guess they decided they wanted Premium Econ but they didn't want to sacrifice a row of Econ for a sensible divider and extra Premium Econ pitch (40-42).


Pitch is 49in in PY.


The Swiss website (linked in the OP) says 99cm pitch which is less than 39".
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: Swiss unveils Premium Economy

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:56 pm

LH, BA and AF all have at least a 38" pitch in their respective Premium Economy seats. I doubt LX will have a larger pitch without losing too much seating capacity.

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