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cameronmd80
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Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:21 am

Last week, there was a very interesting visitor to The Bahamas. Azman is a Nigerian Airline that primarily does domestic flying. They have several 737 Classics and one A340-600 (5N-AAM). To sum up why they sent their only heavy to Nassau: Azman was subject to an internal audit concerning safety/maintenance after suspending ops in March. In May, the ban was lifted and they were able to fly domestically again. However, Azman still had to prove to the Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority (NCAA) that they were capable of international flights with their A340.
Her visit was one of 2 (International Extended Length) proving runs with the NCAA on board. After this flight, Azman was approved to operate 5N-AAM on international routes. Her flight time to and from Nigeria was about 13 hours.
There's a plane spotting video up now documenting their departure day from Nassau.
https://youtu.be/zw6XPrgug5U
 
crownvic
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:12 am

Interesting, but what was with the "stepped" rotation on take off? I don't recall seeing an A346 do this before.
 
n797mx
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:57 am

crownvic wrote:
Interesting, but what was with the "stepped" rotation on take off? I don't recall seeing an A346 do this before.

I'm willing to bet that it was the tailstrike prevention system doing that, not the pilots.
 
Kiwiandrew
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:01 am

Thanks for sharing. They didn't really put a lot of effort into repainting from VS , did they ?
 
Noshow
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:24 am

Strange rotation I a agree. Do they just pull back on the stick to the max and let the airplane sort things out? How about the flaps retraction then?
 
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zeke
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:38 am

n797mx wrote:
I'm willing to bet that it was the tailstrike prevention system doing that, not the pilots.


When was that feature added to the A340-600 ? I didn’t have it when I flew it……
 
rrlopes
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:40 am

I can't help but wonder about the selection of destination for this proving flight. Any ideas how long they spent in Nassau? Given that there's very likely inspectors from the authority as part of this flight, surely a nice destination like this would've been chosen on purpose.

Also... 411 economy seats and TWO business class seats?! :o
 
SwissCanuck
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:55 am

rrlopes wrote:
I can't help but wonder about the selection of destination for this proving flight. Any ideas how long they spent in Nassau? Given that there's very likely inspectors from the authority as part of this flight, surely a nice destination like this would've been chosen on purpose.

Also... 411 economy seats and TWO business class seats?! :o


I'm guessing those are actually crew rest.
 
A320B737NGCapt
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:41 am

n797mx wrote:
crownvic wrote:
Interesting, but what was with the "stepped" rotation on take off? I don't recall seeing an A346 do this before.

I'm willing to bet that it was the tailstrike prevention system doing that, not the pilots.


That was a classic example of poor rotation technique demonstrated by the pilot flying, too slow to begin with, then to much rate of rotation, the pause in rotation was initiated to compensate for the high rate of rotation.

Most probably didn’t help due to the lack of flying recently, no passengers or cargo.
 
flyinTLow
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:50 am

n797mx wrote:
crownvic wrote:
Interesting, but what was with the "stepped" rotation on take off? I don't recall seeing an A346 do this before.

I'm willing to bet that it was the tailstrike prevention system doing that, not the pilots.


The tailstrike prevention system is not active system for rotation. There is only an aural warning (which is optional on the A346) and a warning in the PFD. You shouldnt be looking at that in the moment of rotation though.There is no tailstrike prevention system of this sort that you are thinking of. The A340-600 does have a hard-landing avoidance feature, which adds a nose-up input to the elevator when in flare mode close to the ground the RA closure rate is high. This system was never mentioned by Airbus to anyone and was first revealed in the incident report in the aftermath of the LH A340-600 incident in NRT.

My guess: Just a bad rotation technique. The A340-600 needs a lot of getting used to. But a two-step rotation is the single worst thing you can do during rotation. As you can see in the video the moment the second pitch up command is given, you add a down-force to the elevator. As this down-force is not immediatly compensated by additional lift (this only happens once the angle-of-attack increases), the total lift of the airplane decreases. When you look closely, the airplane does "sink in" a little bit again. While this is true for all airplanes, it is especially critical for tailstrike-critical aircraft like the A340-600. Airlines operating the A340, especially the -600, pay a lot of attention to the correct rotation technique during takeoff in training. As this plane was most likely very light, there was no critical AOA and the above-mentioned drop in lift is barely noticable.

flyinTLow
 
konkret
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:24 am

rrlopes wrote:
Also... 411 economy seats and TWO business class seats?! :o


“The real reason is probably much less dramatic, and relates to certain regulations about long-haul flights. EASA and the FAA specify that flights over a certain distance require a Class 3 crew rest onboard. Class 3 is a reclining seat, whereas Class 2 involves a curtained off lie-flat seat, and Class 1 is a proper rest area away from passengers. Installing a Class 3 rest area would allow crew to operate up to 15 hours straight through, letting the airline fly further. With Hajj flights to places like Jeddah some five to six hours away, this facility would be necessary to make the flights work.”
 
outbackair
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:15 am

konkret wrote:
rrlopes wrote:
Also... 411 economy seats and TWO business class seats?! :o


“The real reason is probably much less dramatic, and relates to certain regulations about long-haul flights. EASA and the FAA specify that flights over a certain distance require a Class 3 crew rest onboard. Class 3 is a reclining seat, whereas Class 2 involves a curtained off lie-flat seat, and Class 1 is a proper rest area away from passengers. Installing a Class 3 rest area would allow crew to operate up to 15 hours straight through, letting the airline fly further. With Hajj flights to places like Jeddah some five to six hours away, this facility would be necessary to make the flights work.”


If it came from Virgin, wouldn't it already have a rest area. Just a thought, but the two business seats to keep the air Marshalls comfortable?
 
BAeRJ100
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:10 pm

rrlopes wrote:
Any ideas how long they spent in Nassau?


Per FlightAware, they were there for roughly two and a half days. In late on Wednesday the 23rd, out around midday on Saturday the 26th.
 
konkret
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:47 pm

outbackair wrote:
If it came from Virgin, wouldn't it already have a rest area.


You are right. I've asked Azman Air about this and received a rather enigmatic answer:
"It is intentionally configured to satisfy a required goal set by Management. The crew rest is a different section from the business Class"

The crew rest theory I quoted above was presented in an article on simpleflying. Sad that the author didn't even contact the airline to enquire about this.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:56 pm

cameronmd80 wrote:
Last week, there was a very interesting visitor to The Bahamas. Azman is a Nigerian Airline that primarily does domestic flying. They have several 737 Classics and one A340-600 (5N-AAM). To sum up why they sent their only heavy to Nassau: Azman was subject to an internal audit concerning safety/maintenance after suspending ops in March. In May, the ban was lifted and they were able to fly domestically again. However, Azman still had to prove to the Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority (NCAA) that they were capable of international flights with their A340.
Her visit was one of 2 (International Extended Length) proving runs with the NCAA on board. After this flight, Azman was approved to operate 5N-AAM on international routes. Her flight time to and from Nigeria was about 13 hours.
There's a plane spotting video up now documenting their departure day from Nassau.
https://youtu.be/zw6XPrgug5U


Thanks for posting this unusual flight. Love watching your vids on Youtube, especially the rare big props from Florida.
 
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TWA302
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:12 pm

I am more intrigued by that Cat Island Bandeirante! I flew on those a few times to Cat. Sad to see it like that.
 
johns624
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:19 pm

konkret wrote:
outbackair wrote:
If it came from Virgin, wouldn't it already have a rest area.


You are right. I've asked Azman Air about this and received a rather enigmatic answer:
"It is intentionally configured to satisfy a required goal set by Management. The crew rest is a different section from the business Class"

The crew rest theory I quoted above was presented in an article on simpleflying. Sad that the author didn't even contact the airline to enquire about this.
Maybe they are for company executives when they fly on the plane?
 
777luver
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:23 pm

konkret wrote:
outbackair wrote:
If it came from Virgin, wouldn't it already have a rest area.


You are right. I've asked Azman Air about this and received a rather enigmatic answer:
"It is intentionally configured to satisfy a required goal set by Management. The crew rest is a different section from the business Class"

The crew rest theory I quoted above was presented in an article on simpleflying. Sad that the author didn't even contact the airline to enquire about this.


Simpleflying is terrible "source" if you can even cal it that
 
sharles
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:22 pm

This source does mention tail strike prevention (at rotation / during takeoff, as I understand it) on the A340-600:

https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/a-focus- ... -rotation/
 
crownvic
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:03 pm

I will contact Barry Azman formally of IDT jets to find out. He is involved with this airline.
 
T54A
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:14 pm

crownvic wrote:
Interesting, but what was with the "stepped" rotation on take off? I don't recall seeing an A346 do this before.


Pilots new to the -600 often get caught by the initial slow reaction to the side stick input, and then add more input. When the nose does eventually come off the ground the rate is faster than desired. So there's a bit of pulling and pushing until you get the feel of it.
 
cameronmd80
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:14 am

T54A wrote:
crownvic wrote:
Interesting, but what was with the "stepped" rotation on take off? I don't recall seeing an A346 do this before.


Pilots new to the -600 often get caught by the initial slow reaction to the side stick input, and then add more input. When the nose does eventually come off the ground the rate is faster than desired. So there's a bit of pulling and pushing until you get the feel of it.


Kind of amazing to think that with no active anti tail strike system, There isn't really any talked about instances of A346 tail strikes.
 
cameronmd80
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:27 am

Spacepope wrote:
cameronmd80 wrote:
Last week, there was a very interesting visitor to The Bahamas. Azman is a Nigerian Airline that primarily does domestic flying. They have several 737 Classics and one A340-600 (5N-AAM). To sum up why they sent their only heavy to Nassau: Azman was subject to an internal audit concerning safety/maintenance after suspending ops in March. In May, the ban was lifted and they were able to fly domestically again. However, Azman still had to prove to the Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority (NCAA) that they were capable of international flights with their A340.
Her visit was one of 2 (International Extended Length) proving runs with the NCAA on board. After this flight, Azman was approved to operate 5N-AAM on international routes. Her flight time to and from Nigeria was about 13 hours.
There's a plane spotting video up now documenting their departure day from Nassau.
https://youtu.be/zw6XPrgug5U


Thanks for posting this unusual flight. Love watching your vids on Youtube, especially the rare big props from Florida.


Thanks man. I'm actually trying to get a few more vintage birds in action before I put together a compilation of all of them.
 
debonair
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:22 am

AFAIK the crew training and maintenance is provided by European Aviation - so why no flying to BOH, why Bahamas?! That in mind, I truly ask myself, who paid the hotel bill of the Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority (NCAA) inspectors... :tapedshut: Isn't it a bit strange, that a grounded airline with severe problems, get off the grounds after a flight to the Bahamas?! :scratchchin:
 
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Polot
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:35 am

cameronmd80 wrote:
T54A wrote:
crownvic wrote:
Interesting, but what was with the "stepped" rotation on take off? I don't recall seeing an A346 do this before.


Pilots new to the -600 often get caught by the initial slow reaction to the side stick input, and then add more input. When the nose does eventually come off the ground the rate is faster than desired. So there's a bit of pulling and pushing until you get the feel of it.


Kind of amazing to think that with no active anti tail strike system, There isn't really any talked about instances of A346 tail strikes.

OEMs generally avoid active, non defeatable tail strike protection in case there is an emergency during takeoff and the pilot wants excessive rotation for whatever reason.
 
5NFGS
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:50 pm

debonair wrote:
AFAIK the crew training and maintenance is provided by European Aviation - so why no flying to BOH, why Bahamas?! That in mind, I truly ask myself, who paid the hotel bill of the Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority (NCAA) inspectors... :tapedshut: Isn't it a bit strange, that a grounded airline with severe problems, get off the grounds after a flight to the Bahamas?! :scratchchin:


Their grounding was lifted at least a month prior to this test flight, so your "theory" is off.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... operations
 
cameronmd80
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:11 pm

5NFGS wrote:
debonair wrote:
AFAIK the crew training and maintenance is provided by European Aviation - so why no flying to BOH, why Bahamas?! That in mind, I truly ask myself, who paid the hotel bill of the Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority (NCAA) inspectors... :tapedshut: Isn't it a bit strange, that a grounded airline with severe problems, get off the grounds after a flight to the Bahamas?! :scratchchin:


Their grounding was lifted at least a month prior to this test flight, so your "theory" is off.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... operations


I'm also partially inclined to entertain the question of them choosing The Bahamas as well for a different reason. At least in the Caribbean, Nigeria has closer ties to Jamaica. In December, Air Peace even started somewhat of trial flights to connect the 2 countries. If Azman attempted the run to Jamaica from Kano, it would've been around 12 hours which isn't far off from the test flight time they were aiming to do.
 
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zeke
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:14 pm

sharles wrote:
This source does mention tail strike prevention (at rotation / during takeoff, as I understand it) on the A340-600:

https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/a-focus- ... -rotation/


There is no flight control law or protection on any FBW Airbus that prevents a tail strike, pull hard enough and it happens. Eg EK407 in MEL https://youtu.be/Jcz8RmbWyw0

The video in the OP is just a poor rotation, incorrect rotation rate and a stagnation, that is all pilot induced.
 
Chaostheory
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:38 pm

I suspect I'll be seeing this particular aircraft quite a bit. A good heavy lifter for the pilgrimage charters.

zeke wrote:

There is no flight control law or protection on any FBW Airbus that prevents a tail strike, pull hard enough and it happens.


Presumably no changes for the A350 then?
 
777luver
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:24 pm

Great video! Nice camera quality
 
ScottB
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:25 pm

debonair wrote:
AFAIK the crew training and maintenance is provided by European Aviation - so why no flying to BOH, why Bahamas?! That in mind, I truly ask myself, who paid the hotel bill of the Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority (NCAA) inspectors... :tapedshut: Isn't it a bit strange, that a grounded airline with severe problems, get off the grounds after a flight to the Bahamas?! :scratchchin:


I don't really see why the Bahamas would be a particularly desirable vacation destination for NCAA inspectors; Nigeria has beaches and it's not as if one would be seeking a tropical getaway when coming from Nigeria. If anything, I'd expect a flight to Europe for shopping would be more attractive to government officials.

I'm more inclined to think the current status of Covid-related entry restrictions would have played a role in the choice of the Bahamas, along with the fact that the flights to/from NAS would have included extended overwater flying.
 
Italianflyer
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:40 pm

Did they choose NAS because the Bahamas and Nigeria are both Commonwealth nations? With streamline the paperwork process a bit.

My question is where are they going to send this beautiful beast to? One of the LON airports? EWR? China? (Given the growing ties between China and Nigeria that's where my money is)
 
konkret
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:51 pm

Italianflyer wrote:

My question is where are they going to send this beautiful beast to? One of the LON airports? EWR? China? (Given the growing ties between China and Nigeria that's where my money is)


KAN to DXB, JED + a destination in China
 
cameronmd80
Topic Author
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:08 pm

Italianflyer wrote:
Did they choose NAS because the Bahamas and Nigeria are both Commonwealth nations? With streamline the paperwork process a bit.

My question is where are they going to send this beautiful beast to? One of the LON airports? EWR? China? (Given the growing ties between China and Nigeria that's where my money is)


Again, I think it would've made more sense to go Jamaica because they have more aviation related ties there.
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:24 pm

Italianflyer wrote:
Did they choose NAS because the Bahamas and Nigeria are both Commonwealth nations? With streamline the paperwork process a bit.

My question is where are they going to send this beautiful beast to? One of the LON airports? EWR? China? (Given the growing ties between China and Nigeria that's where my money is)


The Commonwealth doesn’t operate in that way. There would be no streamlined paperwork. It’s not like the EU. It’s more of a cultural organisation.
 
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novarupta
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:38 pm

cameronmd80 wrote:
Italianflyer wrote:
Did they choose NAS because the Bahamas and Nigeria are both Commonwealth nations? With streamline the paperwork process a bit.

My question is where are they going to send this beautiful beast to? One of the LON airports? EWR? China? (Given the growing ties between China and Nigeria that's where my money is)


Again, I think it would've made more sense to go Jamaica because they have more aviation related ties there.

Maybe COVID-19 related restrictions were playing a part in the decision to fly to Nassau as opposed to Mobay/Kingston.
 
sharles
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:40 pm

zeke wrote:
sharles wrote:
This source does mention tail strike prevention (at rotation / during takeoff, as I understand it) on the A340-600:

https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/a-focus- ... -rotation/


There is no flight control law or protection on any FBW Airbus that prevents a tail strike, pull hard enough and it happens. Eg EK407 in MEL https://youtu.be/Jcz8RmbWyw0

Yes, as someone stated above, it is not impossible to have a tailstrike and that is by design.

However, as stated on that Airbus website:
"The function protects the aircraft against tail strike for average sidestick deflection values until the sidestick deflection reaches approximately ¾ of nose-up order. The PF can override this protection by pulling back on the sidestick beyond ¾ of nose-up."

So yes, if you pull more than ¾ of nose-up, you can have a tailstrike, but that is a designed-in property of the tail strike protection function. If you pull less than that, the probability of a tailstrike is rather low.
 
FCOTSTW
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:39 pm

And to prove a point they sent an A340 transatlantic? OMG! This is the triumph of the ego.
 
cameronmd80
Topic Author
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:13 am

I wished they had put more effort into the livery. The remnants of Virgin aren't bad but the patchiness of the decals are off-putting.
 
AsoRock
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Re: Azman Air A340-600 Demonstration Flight to The Bahamas

Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:35 am

Azman does not seem to be a next gen airline, and everything points to a traditionally run, short to live carrier. Even their marketing is from the Stone Age, as shown on their Instagram account. A more promising Nigerian airline that puts the passenger experience at the center or everything is Ibom Air (A220 and CRJ900 fleet) and the new Green Africa which is about to enter commercial operations.

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