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solracfunk14
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Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:13 am

Hi everyone,

I'm not so familiar with Ravn Alaska operations, since I live down in the Americas and the closest I got was in the PNW.

Someone upload this video and sent to me, looks like the CEO of Ravn just announced that the airline was looking for a narrow-body jets to run a LCC model, and they got the Boeing 757 ETOPS certified for it.

They will be flying to Japan (Tokyo and Osaka), Orlando, NY, Vegas, Oakland and Ontario.

For me seems kind of weird going from a truly regional / essential service to a ETOPS + LCC service. But will be fun to see a truly alaskian airline flying bigger jets.

This new subsidiary will be called NorPacific Airways (or North Pacific Airways?).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFohasJjnkE
 
solracfunk14
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:23 am

Update: The video was just made private, but many people got to see https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 5571087360
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:28 am

Don’t know how in the world that will work. But I wish them the best. Will be fun to watch.
 
UA444
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:05 am

Where are they getting 757s?
 
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sunking737
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:05 am

Let me guess flights start 1 Oct???
 
roadrunner165
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:30 am

Well, that’s the dumbest idea I’ve heard in a while.

AS is going to eat their lunch.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:44 am

Let me tell you a story of a successful little airline called Mark Air...
 
QXorVX
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:48 am

I have so many questions /thoughts, admittedly all fairly negative about the “plan”. I think in airline fantasy land the thought of a ULCC/LCC hub connecting pax in Anchorage is interesting, kind of the Iceland Air of the pacific. But when you consider the realities of the market there is such a narrow band of success for this kind of operation it’s basically impossible. Couple that with a leadership group that hasn’t even run their current operation for more than a year along with a MASSIVE change in model this is a step beyond risky and touches on comical. Who from Avatar Airlines was a consultant for this vision?

Who are the customers? Anchorage is good in the summer, which is why all the majors operate the best domestic routes. Even the major Asia based carriers can only swing a few yearly charters for Asia based pax going to Alaska. I see no market for them. Low fares will not come even close to stimulating the numbers they would need. And it is hyper seasonal.

What planes? Every 757 available or coming available is nearly at the end of its life. Just because a plane “can” does not mean it should. I imagine they think 757 because it’s small enough to attempt to fill but has the range and ETOPS to maybe achieve the network they want. Again the realities of a small 757 fleet to operate international scheduled (and low cost!) are not in line with this plan.

I think this leadership team needs to run the airline they have first and put it in a position to be successful long term. They have had some big checks from the government supporting them (COVID $) the entire time they have been in operation. I have no reason to believe the current regional operation cannot be a success, but the cycle of regional airlines in Alaska makes me think there is more to it than they may understand.
 
solracfunk14
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:09 am

QXorVX wrote:
I have so many questions /thoughts, admittedly all fairly negative about the “plan”. I think in airline fantasy land the thought of a ULCC/LCC hub connecting pax in Anchorage is interesting, kind of the Iceland Air of the pacific. But when you consider the realities of the market there is such a narrow band of success for this kind of operation it’s basically impossible. Couple that with a leadership group that hasn’t even run their current operation for more than a year along with a MASSIVE change in model this is a step beyond risky and touches on comical. Who from Avatar Airlines was a consultant for this vision?

Who are the customers? Anchorage is good in the summer, which is why all the majors operate the best domestic routes. Even the major Asia based carriers can only swing a few yearly charters for Asia based pax going to Alaska. I see no market for them. Low fares will not come even close to stimulating the numbers they would need. And it is hyper seasonal.

What planes? Every 757 available or coming available is nearly at the end of its life. Just because a plane “can” does not mean it should. I imagine they think 757 because it’s small enough to attempt to fill but has the range and ETOPS to maybe achieve the network they want. Again the realities of a small 757 fleet to operate international scheduled (and low cost!) are not in line with this plan.

I think this leadership team needs to run the airline they have first and put it in a position to be successful long term. They have had some big checks from the government supporting them (COVID $) the entire time they have been in operation. I have no reason to believe the current regional operation cannot be a success, but the cycle of regional airlines in Alaska makes me think there is more to it than they may understand.


I think they will not connect over ANC, at least for the begginning. Make a stop at ANC for a person going to MCO for me don't make sense. For me they will focus on the leisure market on those destinations from alaskian people, but there are demand for those flights like SunCountry does?
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:20 am

Ravn says it’s eyeing flights to Asia and the Lower 48:
https://www.alaskapublic.org/2021/06/29/ravn-says-its-eyeing-flights-to-asia-and-the-lower-48/

  • The operation would be called Northern Pacific Airways
  • 10 aircraft
  • Tokyo, Seoul, Orlando, Newark, Las Vegas, Oakland and Ontario, a Los Angeles suburb.

The video was intended for company personal, the official public announcement comes soon.
 
CFWAD
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:24 am

They mention the plan is based around utilizing the empty North terminal in ANC. Maybe their thought is to secure their own "private" terminal allowing for seamless connections between Asia and the lower States.

Their plan is for 10 aircraft eventually which seems an incredible amount of debt to add to a carrier in it's current state. Hopefully a full risk assessment is conducted and this thing goes no further than this YouTube to internal employees.
 
Max Q
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:25 am

Well, it’s certainly an original business plan
 
flyoregon
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:26 am

This will end well….

An airline run by the guy who ran Seaport into the ground, nearly ran Mokulele into the ground, is about to run Ravn into the ground. Everything that guy touches turns to mush.

How about making Ravn an Alaskan asset instead of an embarrassment?
 
JohanTally
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:52 am

QXorVX wrote:
I have so many questions /thoughts, admittedly all fairly negative about the “plan”. I think in airline fantasy land the thought of a ULCC/LCC hub connecting pax in Anchorage is interesting, kind of the Iceland Air of the pacific. But when you consider the realities of the market there is such a narrow band of success for this kind of operation it’s basically impossible. Couple that with a leadership group that hasn’t even run their current operation for more than a year along with a MASSIVE change in model this is a step beyond risky and touches on comical. Who from Avatar Airlines was a consultant for this vision?

Who are the customers? Anchorage is good in the summer, which is why all the majors operate the best domestic routes. Even the major Asia based carriers can only swing a few yearly charters for Asia based pax going to Alaska. I see no market for them. Low fares will not come even close to stimulating the numbers they would need. And it is hyper seasonal.

What planes? Every 757 available or coming available is nearly at the end of its life. Just because a plane “can” does not mean it should. I imagine they think 757 because it’s small enough to attempt to fill but has the range and ETOPS to maybe achieve the network they want. Again the realities of a small 757 fleet to operate international scheduled (and low cost!) are not in line with this plan.

I think this leadership team needs to run the airline they have first and put it in a position to be successful long term. They have had some big checks from the government supporting them (COVID $) the entire time they have been in operation. I have no reason to believe the current regional operation cannot be a success, but the cycle of regional airlines in Alaska makes me think there is more to it than they may understand.

I'm not sure what the fate of the younger retired AA frames is but they have about 15 757s that are just under 20 years old which probably have 5 to 8 years of useful passenger life available. I remember hearing of possibly selling some for cargo conversion but haven't seen a firm plan in place.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:55 am

This is never going to happen. They also announced an order for like 50 electric airplanes
 
gmcc
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:01 am

NameOmitted wrote:
Ravn says it’s eyeing flights to Asia and the Lower 48:
https://www.alaskapublic.org/2021/06/29/ravn-says-its-eyeing-flights-to-asia-and-the-lower-48/

  • The operation would be called Northern Pacific Airways
  • 10 aircraft
  • Tokyo, Seoul, Orlando, Newark, Las Vegas, Oakland and Ontario, a Los Angeles suburb.

The video was intended for company personal, the official public announcement comes soon.

Well AS will just have to crush them by buying 10 787s and running them on exactly the same routes while going bankrupt. :duck: . Somehow the word stupid keeps poping into my brain.
 
QXorVX
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:04 am

solracfunk14 wrote:
QXorVX wrote:
...


I think they will not connect over ANC, at least for the begginning. Make a stop at ANC for a person going to MCO for me don't make sense. For me they will focus on the leisure market on those destinations from alaskian people, but there are demand for those flights like SunCountry does?


Anchorage metro is around 400,000 and despite being isolated and seemingly having an always travel ready population they don't have even close to the numbers of people moving to support 10 757s no matter which direction they are flying and for how much. The domestic markets with demand from ANC are well served already, if not direct via one stop. It is not to say there is not room for competition, but basing an airline in such a small market to gather up the leisure demand is unrealistic.
 
BestWestern
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:08 am

Is this not an Alaskan version of Icelandair?
 
sfojvjets
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:42 am

BestWestern wrote:
Is this not an Alaskan version of Icelandair?

It could be but the route decisions have me thinking more along the lines of a kind of Sun Country with 757s. I think the prospective network is much more optimized for p2p than connections. In that regard the only thing this airline would have in common with Icelandair is fleet type, being the 757. Apart from that tpac and tatl are two very different games, and this carrier seems to be planning to be an lcc whereas Icelandair is more of a hybrid model. I wish this new version of Ravn luck but the road ahead is undoubtedly challenging.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:57 am

sfojvjets wrote:
BestWestern wrote:
Is this not an Alaskan version of Icelandair?

It could be but the route decisions have me thinking more along the lines of a kind of Sun Country with 757s. I think the prospective network is much more optimized for p2p than connections. In that regard the only thing this airline would have in common with Icelandair is fleet type, being the 757. Apart from that tpac and tatl are two very different games, and this carrier seems to be planning to be an lcc whereas Icelandair is more of a hybrid model. I wish this new version of Ravn luck but the road ahead is undoubtedly challenging.

They for sure aren’t profitable on their Alaska relaunch yet. Ravn and penair went out of business cus they weren’t making money. This is all crazy
 
2eng2efficient
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:46 am

If by some wild chance this worked, the A321XLR could be a candidate here, with the 757 serving as a bridge.

But I’m deeply skeptical.
 
debonair
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:02 am

This could be the perfect chance for EASTERN to join forces... Didn't even EASTERN offered at one point ANC to N.Y. (which never commenced)? That would be the perfect fit, RAVN Alaskan reputation combined with EASTERN B767/B777 fleet... :bigthumbsup:
 
freshwater
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:17 am

gmcc wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
Ravn says it’s eyeing flights to Asia and the Lower 48:
https://www.alaskapublic.org/2021/06/29/ravn-says-its-eyeing-flights-to-asia-and-the-lower-48/

  • The operation would be called Northern Pacific Airways
  • 10 aircraft
  • Tokyo, Seoul, Orlando, Newark, Las Vegas, Oakland and Ontario, a Los Angeles suburb.

The video was intended for company personal, the official public announcement comes soon.

Well AS will just have to crush them by buying 10 787s and running them on exactly the same routes while going bankrupt. :duck: . Somehow the word stupid keeps poping into my brain.


Hell just do it with a handful of MAX10s
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:04 pm

Little Ravn?? That is so NOT Ravn!!!
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:58 pm

Where are they going to get frames? I mean, as a 757 fan, I'm happy to see a pax airline who actually wants 757s, but where are they gonna get frames? AFAIK, the ex AA frames are for conversion to freighters. Maybe the 13 that UA retired last year or some of the Icelandair ones? Though I have no idea the cycles and how close to the end of their lives that they are.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:22 pm

Some people here seem excited for Alaska to "crush them" on routes Alaska doesn't even operate. That's against all kinds of competition rules in a free marketplace.

Good luck to Ravn.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:50 pm

BestWestern wrote:
Is this not an Alaskan version of Icelandair?

Iceland has the Atlantic Seaboard on one side, and Europe on the other, and is the flag carrier for a government that has built it's tourism economy around the idea of stopovers.

We have the Yukon, Siberia, and Spenard.
 
gmcc
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:43 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
Some people here seem excited for Alaska to "crush them" on routes Alaska doesn't even operate. That's against all kinds of competition rules in a free marketplace.

Good luck to Ravn.

It's not so much that some posters, such as myself, want AS to crush Ravn but more a feeling that Ravn and AS would probably make more money by setting pallets of cash on fire than going down this route
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:49 pm

gmcc wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
Some people here seem excited for Alaska to "crush them" on routes Alaska doesn't even operate. That's against all kinds of competition rules in a free marketplace.

Good luck to Ravn.

It's not so much that some posters, such as myself, want AS to crush Ravn but more a feeling that Ravn and AS would probably make more money by setting pallets of cash on fire than going down this route

Especially since the State of Alaska has a history of offering pallets of money to groups with a snazzy PowerPoint that covers a poor business plan.
 
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theAviationGeek
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:49 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
We have the Yukon, Siberia, and Spenard.


It has been a long while since I have laughed this hard. Thank you for that NameOmitted!

Ryan
 
32andBelow
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:39 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
gmcc wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
Some people here seem excited for Alaska to "crush them" on routes Alaska doesn't even operate. That's against all kinds of competition rules in a free marketplace.

Good luck to Ravn.

It's not so much that some posters, such as myself, want AS to crush Ravn but more a feeling that Ravn and AS would probably make more money by setting pallets of cash on fire than going down this route

Especially since the State of Alaska has a history of offering pallets of money to groups with a snazzy PowerPoint that covers a poor business plan.

But now they have no money to give!

When is the first flight to harbin city?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:12 pm

freshwater wrote:
Hell just do it with a handful of MAX10s


You're not going to do TPAC non-stop from ANC with MAX10s. They might get ANC-HND/ICN on 757s if the seating isn't too dense -- on good days.
 
Lootess
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:12 am

I worked in Anchorage for over a year. There is a good amount of natives with a lot of money and affinity to travel, and not having to fly down to SEA to connect globally can probably work for HND and ICN. Good luck to new Ravn if they can pull it off. The old Ravn was certainly debt ridden.
 
flyoregon
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:21 am

Lootess wrote:
I worked in Anchorage for over a year. There is a good amount of natives with a lot of money and affinity to travel, and not having to fly down to SEA to connect globally can probably work for HND and ICN. Good luck to new Ravn if they can pull it off. The old Ravn was certainly debt ridden.


This new Ravn probably won’t be much different. A bunch of old, tired 757s aren’t exactly cheap to operate. They better be prepared for maintenance delays and cancellations. All you have to do is look at Allegiant’s 757 experiment, and that’s an airline with reputable experience and money. This new Ravn has neither.
 
sfojvjets
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:42 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
freshwater wrote:
Hell just do it with a handful of MAX10s


You're not going to do TPAC non-stop from ANC with MAX10s. They might get ANC-HND/ICN on 757s if the seating isn't too dense -- on good days.

LOL who knows. max 10s would be iffy but max 9s would be alright for japan/korea, provided they aren't in a ulcc configuration. and the 757s will be perfectly adequate for japan/korea - it's well within their capabilities. delta used to fly sea-tyo on a 752 in the early 2010s if i remember correctly.

Plus Icelandair (who aren't a full service carrier) used to fly SFO-KEF with a 752 up until early 2020 - that stage length is 650 nmi longer than ANC-TYO and 300 nmi longer than ANC-ICN. ICN may be iffy but Tokyo shouldn't be a problem at all, taking into account the fact that this new carrier plans on being an lcc. Don't underestimate the beast that is the 752 :lol:
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:15 am

Lootess wrote:
I worked in Anchorage for over a year. There is a good amount of natives with a lot of money and affinity to travel, and not having to fly down to SEA to connect globally can probably work for HND and ICN. Good luck to new Ravn if they can pull it off. The old Ravn was certainly debt ridden.

Please. The "natives have so much money" trope is so tired, do we really need to banty it about here?

If you happen to be a shareholder of CIRI, one of the most profitable Native Corporations, your dividend for 2020 might be around $1,900. Nice to have for sure, but not filling very many 757s.

Besides, it's likely that much of that money went into buying winter fuel oil, for which you can get double Alaska Airlines miles. Until and unless I can get Ravn FlyCoin at the gas station, grocery store, or Costco, it's going to be AS (and Delta) companion fares.

As for a direct flight to HND or ICN, then where? Is Ravn picking up an international code-share? I actually think that a direct flight from ANC to one of those hubs COULD be made to work, if it connected Alaska's Korean, Phillipino, and Samoan communities, but that would take a much stronger connection on the other end than I see Ravn pulling off.
 
floridaflyboy
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:32 pm

sfojvjets wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
freshwater wrote:
Hell just do it with a handful of MAX10s


You're not going to do TPAC non-stop from ANC with MAX10s. They might get ANC-HND/ICN on 757s if the seating isn't too dense -- on good days.

LOL who knows. max 10s would be iffy but max 9s would be alright for japan/korea, provided they aren't in a ulcc configuration. and the 757s will be perfectly adequate for japan/korea - it's well within their capabilities. delta used to fly sea-tyo on a 752 in the early 2010s if i remember correctly.

Plus Icelandair (who aren't a full service carrier) used to fly SFO-KEF with a 752 up until early 2020 - that stage length is 650 nmi longer than ANC-TYO and 300 nmi longer than ANC-ICN. ICN may be iffy but Tokyo shouldn't be a problem at all, taking into account the fact that this new carrier plans on being an lcc. Don't underestimate the beast that is the 752 :lol:


Nah, DL has always been a widebody SEA-TYO. They did have 757s in NRT for a while, but they just did intra-Asia "interport" flying.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:35 pm

sfojvjets wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
freshwater wrote:
Hell just do it with a handful of MAX10s


You're not going to do TPAC non-stop from ANC with MAX10s. They might get ANC-HND/ICN on 757s if the seating isn't too dense -- on good days.

LOL who knows. max 10s would be iffy but max 9s would be alright for japan/korea, provided they aren't in a ulcc configuration. and the 757s will be perfectly adequate for japan/korea - it's well within their capabilities. delta used to fly sea-tyo on a 752 in the early 2010s if i remember correctly.

Plus Icelandair (who aren't a full service carrier) used to fly SFO-KEF with a 752 up until early 2020 - that stage length is 650 nmi longer than ANC-TYO and 300 nmi longer than ANC-ICN. ICN may be iffy but Tokyo shouldn't be a problem at all, taking into account the fact that this new carrier plans on being an lcc. Don't underestimate the beast that is the 752 :lol:


As another poster mentioned, DL's Asia 757s were strictly for interport flying.

UA 757s couldn't do TXL-EWR reliably into winter winds at 3,980 sm. You want ANC-ICN into TPAC winds at 3,798 sm with fewer diversions points, many of them subject to weather? No thanks.
 
sfojvjets
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:29 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
As another poster mentioned, DL's Asia 757s were strictly for interport flying.

UA 757s couldn't do TXL-EWR reliably into winter winds at 3,980 sm. You want ANC-ICN into TPAC winds at 3,798 sm with fewer diversions points, many of them subject to weather? No thanks.

I may have been wrong about it being a regularly scheduled flight, but no, DL actually did place their 752s on direct NRT-SEA pax service. It seems like it was a one-time thing but it definitely was not a ferry flight. https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-09jun10/

And yeah, I think ANC-ICN is totally feasible. Again, look at my example. Icelandair operated SFO-KEF on a mix of 752s/763s up until early 2020, when the route was cut. SFO-KEF is about 300 nmi farther in terms of stage length when compared to ANC-ICN. And Iceair is not exactly a full service carrier. http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=anc-icn%0D ... =wls&DU=nm
 
LTEN11
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:45 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
sfojvjets wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

You're not going to do TPAC non-stop from ANC with MAX10s. They might get ANC-HND/ICN on 757s if the seating isn't too dense -- on good days.

LOL who knows. max 10s would be iffy but max 9s would be alright for japan/korea, provided they aren't in a ulcc configuration. and the 757s will be perfectly adequate for japan/korea - it's well within their capabilities. delta used to fly sea-tyo on a 752 in the early 2010s if i remember correctly.

Plus Icelandair (who aren't a full service carrier) used to fly SFO-KEF with a 752 up until early 2020 - that stage length is 650 nmi longer than ANC-TYO and 300 nmi longer than ANC-ICN. ICN may be iffy but Tokyo shouldn't be a problem at all, taking into account the fact that this new carrier plans on being an lcc. Don't underestimate the beast that is the 752 :lol:


As another poster mentioned, DL's Asia 757s were strictly for interport flying.

UA 757s couldn't do TXL-EWR reliably into winter winds at 3,980 sm. You want ANC-ICN into TPAC winds at 3,798 sm with fewer diversions points, many of them subject to weather? No thanks.


There is the whole of Japan that could be used as diversion ports, several in Eastern Russia and the rest of South Korea and that's not taking into account Chinese airports if it were take that routing. While I believe this whole exercise in somewhat ludicrous, the lack of diversion ports available on ANC-ICN would not be one of them.
 
Aliqiout
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:07 pm

solracfunk14 wrote:
QXorVX wrote:
I have so many questions /thoughts, admittedly all fairly negative about the “plan”. I think in airline fantasy land the thought of a ULCC/LCC hub connecting pax in Anchorage is interesting, kind of the Iceland Air of the pacific. But when you consider the realities of the market there is such a narrow band of success for this kind of operation it’s basically impossible. Couple that with a leadership group that hasn’t even run their current operation for more than a year along with a MASSIVE change in model this is a step beyond risky and touches on comical. Who from Avatar Airlines was a consultant for this vision?

Who are the customers? Anchorage is good in the summer, which is why all the majors operate the best domestic routes. Even the major Asia based carriers can only swing a few yearly charters for Asia based pax going to Alaska. I see no market for them. Low fares will not come even close to stimulating the numbers they would need. And it is hyper seasonal.

What planes? Every 757 available or coming available is nearly at the end of its life. Just because a plane “can” does not mean it should. I imagine they think 757 because it’s small enough to attempt to fill but has the range and ETOPS to maybe achieve the network they want. Again the realities of a small 757 fleet to operate international scheduled (and low cost!) are not in line with this plan.

I think this leadership team needs to run the airline they have first and put it in a position to be successful long term. They have had some big checks from the government supporting them (COVID $) the entire time they have been in operation. I have no reason to believe the current regional operation cannot be a success, but the cycle of regional airlines in Alaska makes me think there is more to it than they may understand.


I think they will not connect over ANC, at least for the begginning. Make a stop at ANC for a person going to MCO for me don't make sense. For me they will focus on the leisure market on those destinations from alaskian people, but there are demand for those flights like SunCountry does?

The only hope for this plan is to sell connections. Just base on physical geography ANC is an ideal connecting point for SE U.S. to much of Asia. For example ANC is directly on the great circle route from MCO to Tokyo.

Not that I have much hope for Ravn.
 
debonair
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:49 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
Where are they going to get frames? I mean, as a 757 fan, I'm happy to see a pax airline who actually wants 757s, but where are they gonna get frames? AFAIK, the ex AA frames are for conversion to freighters. Maybe the 13 that UA retired last year or some of the Icelandair ones? Though I have no idea the cycles and how close to the end of their lives that they are.


I remember this article, so B757 are on offer: https://simpleflying.com/uzbekistan-air ... -aircraft/
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:29 pm

debonair wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
Where are they going to get frames? I mean, as a 757 fan, I'm happy to see a pax airline who actually wants 757s, but where are they gonna get frames? AFAIK, the ex AA frames are for conversion to freighters. Maybe the 13 that UA retired last year or some of the Icelandair ones? Though I have no idea the cycles and how close to the end of their lives that they are.


I remember this article, so B757 are on offer: https://simpleflying.com/uzbekistan-air ... -aircraft/



But that's just two frames. For the routes they announced, they probably should have a fleet of at least 5+. What about the other 3?
 
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:23 am

Boeing757100 wrote:
debonair wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
Where are they going to get frames? I mean, as a 757 fan, I'm happy to see a pax airline who actually wants 757s, but where are they gonna get frames? AFAIK, the ex AA frames are for conversion to freighters. Maybe the 13 that UA retired last year or some of the Icelandair ones? Though I have no idea the cycles and how close to the end of their lives that they are.


I remember this article, so B757 are on offer: https://simpleflying.com/uzbekistan-air ... -aircraft/



But that's just two frames. For the routes they announced, they probably should have a fleet of at least 5+. What about the other 3?

Iceland Air? There would be a nice form of symmetry there.

While we're playing with routes, HEL-ANC with continuing service to HNL. Again, it would be better with a partner, say, FinnAir, who could gather those interested in Hawaii from all across Europe, but the great circle route passes right overhead.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:12 am

sfojvjets wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
As another poster mentioned, DL's Asia 757s were strictly for interport flying.

UA 757s couldn't do TXL-EWR reliably into winter winds at 3,980 sm. You want ANC-ICN into TPAC winds at 3,798 sm with fewer diversions points, many of them subject to weather? No thanks.

I may have been wrong about it being a regularly scheduled flight, but no, DL actually did place their 752s on direct NRT-SEA pax service. It seems like it was a one-time thing but it definitely was not a ferry flight. https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-09jun10/

And yeah, I think ANC-ICN is totally feasible. Again, look at my example. Icelandair operated SFO-KEF on a mix of 752s/763s up until early 2020, when the route was cut. SFO-KEF is about 300 nmi farther in terms of stage length when compared to ANC-ICN. And Iceair is not exactly a full service carrier. http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=anc-icn%0D ... =wls&DU=nm


That one time 757 NRT-SEA was indeed scheduled, and they sold tickets for it, but cancelled several weeks prior to departure. Passengers were rebooked on the earlier flight and the aircraft operated a ferry.

Note that was eastbound, with the winds behind. No way a 757 would do SEA-NRT westbound with a full load of pax. Nonetheless, I agree that ANC-ICN is theoretically possible with some weight restrictions (and fuel diversions) in winter. The TXL-EWR example is a good one.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:34 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
sfojvjets wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
As another poster mentioned, DL's Asia 757s were strictly for interport flying.

UA 757s couldn't do TXL-EWR reliably into winter winds at 3,980 sm. You want ANC-ICN into TPAC winds at 3,798 sm with fewer diversions points, many of them subject to weather? No thanks.

I may have been wrong about it being a regularly scheduled flight, but no, DL actually did place their 752s on direct NRT-SEA pax service. It seems like it was a one-time thing but it definitely was not a ferry flight. https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-09jun10/

And yeah, I think ANC-ICN is totally feasible. Again, look at my example. Icelandair operated SFO-KEF on a mix of 752s/763s up until early 2020, when the route was cut. SFO-KEF is about 300 nmi farther in terms of stage length when compared to ANC-ICN. And Iceair is not exactly a full service carrier. http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=anc-icn%0D ... =wls&DU=nm


That one time 757 NRT-SEA was indeed scheduled, and they sold tickets for it, but cancelled several weeks prior to departure. Passengers were rebooked on the earlier flight and the aircraft operated a ferry.
That kinda sounds like a flight got opened for sale that shouldn’t have tbh
Note that was eastbound, with the winds behind. No way a 757 would do SEA-NRT westbound with a full load of pax. Nonetheless, I agree that ANC-ICN is theoretically possible with some weight restrictions (and fuel diversions) in winter. The TXL-EWR example is a good one.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:38 am

I actually read that Rven has a partnership with Alaska? That might help, no???
Last edited by AntonioMartin on Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Tokushima
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:49 am

What, no "Are they stark Ravn mad?" comments? I'm surprised!
 
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:02 pm

The story made the ADN. Nothing really new, except CEO Rob McKinney stating the plan is not very far along, and that “This is just an internal plan that might be similar to the video, it might be completely different than the video, or it might not happen at all”

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/aviation/2021/07/02/ravn-alaska-considers-expanding-service-to-lower-48-and-asia/
 
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Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:11 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
I actually read that Rven has a partnership with Alaska? That might help, no???


Old Ravn had a partnership with Alaska. After Rven ran an aircraft off the runway in Unalaska, AS terminated the Capacity Passenger Agreement for that run, and beefed up service to King Harbor to serve Unalaska indirectly. Part of the reorganization involved several million dollars owed AS, and there was some speculation (hope) that AS would leverage that as part of a buyout that might see AS taking over safety for Rven flights.

As far as I know, AS has not made any arragments with the new Ravn.

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