Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6174
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:53 am

sfojvjets wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
inconveniently this video was posted today by the YouTuber Austin Scott Aviation titled "Is Northern Pacific Airways a SCAM?". TLDR: watched the whole vid, doesn't give the answer, just red flags. Says he will give an answer in part 2, I'm the only one that left a comment on the video.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-hhdoy_z5E

It’s definitely a scam. This guy is just soaking up investment from public and private whirl pedaling. a plan that makes no sense

I don't know about that video... it seems to be grasping at straws.

Do I think NorPac has the most secure, best business model when you look at what covid has done to US-Asia travel? Not at all.

Does the CEO seem slimy from what many people have said? I guess so...

But are they a full-blown scam? I find that hard to believe. Their plan seems pretty harebrained to me, for sure, considering how different the US-Asia and US-Europe markets are. But some of the points brought up in that video can easily be disputed:

1. The youtuber thinks that them choosing the 757 is sketchy, when PVG and HKG are out of its range from ANC, since this is a major part of Asia that can't be reached with their (current) plans. Well, in today's unveiling, the CEO revealed that they are looking at the MAX and XLR as 757 replacement, and are "in discussions over wide-body aircraft moving forward" per DJ Aviation's Twitter. https://twitter.com/DjsAviation/status/ ... 94/photo/1

2. Another of the things he seems to think is sketchy is that N627NP is not in Anchorage. He thinks that it is, for some reason, "stuck" in San Bernardino. Well, today's unveiling was located in–you guessed it–the hangar that 627NP currently occupies in SBD before it is flown out to ANC. And even so, what's the rush for it to go out to ANC? They're only planning on starting operations in Q3/Q4 of this year and the 757 will much prefer SBD's dry climate as opposed to the very wet ANC. Shouldn't they have ample time?

It just seems like a lot of grasping at straws in order to make an interesting-looking video. If it really does end up being a scam, though, good for the people that will be able to say "I told you so". I just think it's a poorly thought out vision rather than an actual scam. I am more interested in finding out what they're going to do with those 12 752s every winter, because the extreme seasonality of the operation is the most intriguing element to me, not whether it's legit or a scam.

So why launch the airline with an obsolete fleet? Why not just wait and do it right with the correct aircrafts?

He also told DJ he’s gonna get super sonic airplanes from boom. He also signed a LOI for like 200 electric airplanes for ravn. He’s all over the place
 
Cardude2
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:58 am

sfojvjets wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
inconveniently this video was posted today by the YouTuber Austin Scott Aviation titled "Is Northern Pacific Airways a SCAM?". TLDR: watched the whole vid, doesn't give the answer, just red flags. Says he will give an answer in part 2, I'm the only one that left a comment on the video.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-hhdoy_z5E

It’s definitely a scam. This guy is just soaking up investment from public and private whirl pedaling. a plan that makes no sense

I don't know about that video... it seems to be grasping at straws.

Do I think NorPac has the most secure, best business model when you look at what covid has done to US-Asia travel? Not at all.

Does the CEO seem slimy from what many people have said? I guess so...

But are they a full-blown scam? I find that hard to believe. Their plan seems pretty harebrained to me, for sure, considering how different the US-Asia and US-Europe markets are. But some of the points brought up in that video can easily be disputed:

1. The youtuber thinks that them choosing the 757 is sketchy, when PVG and HKG are out of its range from ANC, since this is a major part of Asia that can't be reached with their (current) plans. Well, in today's unveiling, the CEO revealed that they are looking at the MAX and XLR as 757 replacement, and are "in discussions over wide-body aircraft moving forward" per DJ Aviation's Twitter. https://twitter.com/DjsAviation/status/ ... 94/photo/1

2. Another of the things he seems to think is sketchy is that N627NP is not in Anchorage. He thinks that it is, for some reason, "stuck" in San Bernardino. Well, today's unveiling was located in–you guessed it–the hangar that 627NP currently occupies in SBD before it is flown out to ANC. And even so, what's the rush for it to go out to ANC? They're only planning on starting operations in Q3/Q4 of this year and the 757 will much prefer SBD's dry climate as opposed to the very wet ANC. Shouldn't they have ample time?

It just seems like a lot of grasping at straws in order to make an interesting-looking video. If it really does end up being a scam, though, good for the people that will be able to say "I told you so". I just think it's a poorly thought out vision rather than an actual scam. I am more interested in finding out what they're going to do with those 12 752s every winter, because the extreme seasonality of the operation is the most intriguing element to me, not whether it's legit or a scam.


perfect explanation! do you mind putting it in a youtube comment as constructive criticism to this up-and-coming YouTuber? or can I do it?
 
Cardude2
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:59 am

32andBelow wrote:
sfojvjets wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
It’s definitely a scam. This guy is just soaking up investment from public and private whirl pedaling. a plan that makes no sense

I don't know about that video... it seems to be grasping at straws.

Do I think NorPac has the most secure, best business model when you look at what covid has done to US-Asia travel? Not at all.

Does the CEO seem slimy from what many people have said? I guess so...

But are they a full-blown scam? I find that hard to believe. Their plan seems pretty harebrained to me, for sure, considering how different the US-Asia and US-Europe markets are. But some of the points brought up in that video can easily be disputed:

1. The youtuber thinks that them choosing the 757 is sketchy, when PVG and HKG are out of its range from ANC, since this is a major part of Asia that can't be reached with their (current) plans. Well, in today's unveiling, the CEO revealed that they are looking at the MAX and XLR as 757 replacement, and are "in discussions over wide-body aircraft moving forward" per DJ Aviation's Twitter. https://twitter.com/DjsAviation/status/ ... 94/photo/1

2. Another of the things he seems to think is sketchy is that N627NP is not in Anchorage. He thinks that it is, for some reason, "stuck" in San Bernardino. Well, today's unveiling was located in–you guessed it–the hangar that 627NP currently occupies in SBD before it is flown out to ANC. And even so, what's the rush for it to go out to ANC? They're only planning on starting operations in Q3/Q4 of this year and the 757 will much prefer SBD's dry climate as opposed to the very wet ANC. Shouldn't they have ample time?

It just seems like a lot of grasping at straws in order to make an interesting-looking video. If it really does end up being a scam, though, good for the people that will be able to say "I told you so". I just think it's a poorly thought out vision rather than an actual scam. I am more interested in finding out what they're going to do with those 12 752s every winter, because the extreme seasonality of the operation is the most intriguing element to me, not whether it's legit or a scam.

So why launch the airline with an obsolete fleet? Why not just wait and do it right with the correct aircrafts?

He also told DJ he’s gonna get super sonic airplanes from boom. He also signed a LOI for like 200 electric airplanes for ravn. He’s all over the place


you realize Scott Kirby (united CEO) did all of those things and announced hydrogen CRJ-550's?
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6174
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:09 am

Cardude2 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
sfojvjets wrote:
I don't know about that video... it seems to be grasping at straws.

Do I think NorPac has the most secure, best business model when you look at what covid has done to US-Asia travel? Not at all.

Does the CEO seem slimy from what many people have said? I guess so...

But are they a full-blown scam? I find that hard to believe. Their plan seems pretty harebrained to me, for sure, considering how different the US-Asia and US-Europe markets are. But some of the points brought up in that video can easily be disputed:

1. The youtuber thinks that them choosing the 757 is sketchy, when PVG and HKG are out of its range from ANC, since this is a major part of Asia that can't be reached with their (current) plans. Well, in today's unveiling, the CEO revealed that they are looking at the MAX and XLR as 757 replacement, and are "in discussions over wide-body aircraft moving forward" per DJ Aviation's Twitter. https://twitter.com/DjsAviation/status/ ... 94/photo/1

2. Another of the things he seems to think is sketchy is that N627NP is not in Anchorage. He thinks that it is, for some reason, "stuck" in San Bernardino. Well, today's unveiling was located in–you guessed it–the hangar that 627NP currently occupies in SBD before it is flown out to ANC. And even so, what's the rush for it to go out to ANC? They're only planning on starting operations in Q3/Q4 of this year and the 757 will much prefer SBD's dry climate as opposed to the very wet ANC. Shouldn't they have ample time?

It just seems like a lot of grasping at straws in order to make an interesting-looking video. If it really does end up being a scam, though, good for the people that will be able to say "I told you so". I just think it's a poorly thought out vision rather than an actual scam. I am more interested in finding out what they're going to do with those 12 752s every winter, because the extreme seasonality of the operation is the most intriguing element to me, not whether it's legit or a scam.

So why launch the airline with an obsolete fleet? Why not just wait and do it right with the correct aircrafts?

He also told DJ he’s gonna get super sonic airplanes from boom. He also signed a LOI for like 200 electric airplanes for ravn. He’s all over the place


you realize Scott Kirby (united CEO) did all of those things and announced hydrogen CRJ-550's?

United is one of the largest airlines in the world. Float Alaska operates less than a dozen dash 8s and was launched on cares money
 
Cardude2
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:36 am

32andBelow wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
So why launch the airline with an obsolete fleet? Why not just wait and do it right with the correct aircrafts?

He also told DJ he’s gonna get super sonic airplanes from boom. He also signed a LOI for like 200 electric airplanes for ravn. He’s all over the place


you realize Scott Kirby (united CEO) did all of those things and announced hydrogen CRJ-550's?

United is one of the largest airlines in the world. Float Alaska operates less than a dozen dash 8s and was launched on cares money


last I checked delta was and united was not but ok.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6174
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:07 am

Cardude2 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:

you realize Scott Kirby (united CEO) did all of those things and announced hydrogen CRJ-550's?

United is one of the largest airlines in the world. Float Alaska operates less than a dozen dash 8s and was launched on cares money


last I checked delta was and united was not but ok.

I said one of
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 6422
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:07 pm

32andBelow wrote:
sfojvjets wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
It’s definitely a scam. This guy is just soaking up investment from public and private whirl pedaling. a plan that makes no sense

I don't know about that video... it seems to be grasping at straws.

Do I think NorPac has the most secure, best business model when you look at what covid has done to US-Asia travel? Not at all.

Does the CEO seem slimy from what many people have said? I guess so...

But are they a full-blown scam? I find that hard to believe. Their plan seems pretty harebrained to me, for sure, considering how different the US-Asia and US-Europe markets are. But some of the points brought up in that video can easily be disputed:

1. The youtuber thinks that them choosing the 757 is sketchy, when PVG and HKG are out of its range from ANC, since this is a major part of Asia that can't be reached with their (current) plans. Well, in today's unveiling, the CEO revealed that they are looking at the MAX and XLR as 757 replacement, and are "in discussions over wide-body aircraft moving forward" per DJ Aviation's Twitter. https://twitter.com/DjsAviation/status/ ... 94/photo/1

2. Another of the things he seems to think is sketchy is that N627NP is not in Anchorage. He thinks that it is, for some reason, "stuck" in San Bernardino. Well, today's unveiling was located in–you guessed it–the hangar that 627NP currently occupies in SBD before it is flown out to ANC. And even so, what's the rush for it to go out to ANC? They're only planning on starting operations in Q3/Q4 of this year and the 757 will much prefer SBD's dry climate as opposed to the very wet ANC. Shouldn't they have ample time?

It just seems like a lot of grasping at straws in order to make an interesting-looking video. If it really does end up being a scam, though, good for the people that will be able to say "I told you so". I just think it's a poorly thought out vision rather than an actual scam. I am more interested in finding out what they're going to do with those 12 752s every winter, because the extreme seasonality of the operation is the most intriguing element to me, not whether it's legit or a scam.

So why launch the airline with an obsolete fleet? Why not just wait and do it right with the correct aircrafts?

He also told DJ he’s gonna get super sonic airplanes from boom. He also signed a LOI for like 200 electric airplanes for ravn. He’s all over the place

Old aircraft with low acquisition cost is helpful to kickstart an airlines with less capital. I think a number of LCC in Asia tried this. But better question is why now when Trans-Pacific traffic is not expected to resume anywhere near normal anytime soon?
 
User avatar
sunking737
Posts: 1805
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:19 pm

They could haul cargo in the belly???
 
airlinepeanuts
Posts: 243
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:46 pm

Doesn’t the 757 work for Icelandair?
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6174
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:38 pm

airlinepeanuts wrote:
Doesn’t the 757 work for Icelandair?

They have a lot more cities available within the range of the 757.
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2684
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:44 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:51 pm

I don't know much about the CEO or leadership team, but I have to say that I was impressed with their website/design. Encourages me a little bit at least.
 
flyoregon
Posts: 942
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:08 pm

GSPSPOT wrote:
I don't know much about the CEO or leadership team, but I have to say that I was impressed with their website/design. Encourages me a little bit at least.


A nice website and design isn’t that hard to do and relatively inexpensive to achieve.
 
drgmobile
Posts: 992
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:06 am

Re: Ravn Alaska going with Boeing 757 ETOPS and new subsidiary?

Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:32 pm

gmcc wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
Ravn says it’s eyeing flights to Asia and the Lower 48:
https://www.alaskapublic.org/2021/06/29/ravn-says-its-eyeing-flights-to-asia-and-the-lower-48/

  • The operation would be called Northern Pacific Airways
  • 10 aircraft
  • Tokyo, Seoul, Orlando, Newark, Las Vegas, Oakland and Ontario, a Los Angeles suburb.

The video was intended for company personal, the official public announcement comes soon.

Well AS will just have to crush them by buying 10 787s and running them on exactly the same routes while going bankrupt. :duck: . Somehow the word stupid keeps poping into my brain.


It would make no sense to run aircraft on the same routes. The reason the Iceland model works is because as a country that is a remote island they have a need for air connections to the outside world and the low-fare, stop-over option market allows them to add in the connecting traffic to sustain the routes that wouldn't otherwise be viable. Alaska is also remote, and this initiative would certainly be good for Alaskan connectivity but does it make sense from the airline's perspective? U.S. airlines are not constrained in the way that Iceland's carriers are -- they can just fly direct from the lower 48. This airline could aim to fly from secondary markets without direct access to Asian markets, but then the mainline network carriers can just match fares from those markets and fly travellers over their own hubs.
 
travaz
Posts: 1234
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:44 pm

While I don't think it is an outright scam, the only outcome I see is bankruptcy and closer of the Airline with in a short period of time. If I was working at NP I certainly would keep my resume up to date and on file elsewhere.
 
Cardude2
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:53 pm

Details straight from Icelandair notes that the 752 in a more dense cabin has the range at 6300 km (3900 miles). That means it can reach the following destinations without seat blocking (I think):

Anywhere in Japan with the exception of Naha (Tokyo, Osaka, and Nagoya will be on launch. lots more city possibilities in the future like Hiroshima or Sapporo)

Anywhere in South Korea except for Jeju (Seoul will be on launch, only other city of interest would be Busan)

And the Liaoning, Jilin, and Heilongjiang provinces in China.

Maybe also Vladivostok in Russia might have the demand.

Source: https://www.icelandair.com/about/our-fl ... g-757-200/
 
dopplerd
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:30 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:20 pm

Q3/4 will give them time to fix the NLG door adjustment.
 
Cardude2
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:26 pm

dopplerd wrote:
Q3/4 will give them time to fix the NLG door adjustment.


whats that?
 
Cardude2
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:32 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo-jIWSQAos

Video from the event. The first half is CEO Q&A, the second half is a walkaround of the aircraft.
 
ytib
Posts: 770
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:22 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:37 am

Cardude2 wrote:
dopplerd wrote:
Q3/4 will give them time to fix the NLG door adjustment.


whats that?


Nose Landing Gear (NLG). In the photos there was a gap.
 
Cardude2
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:40 am

ytib wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
dopplerd wrote:
Q3/4 will give them time to fix the NLG door adjustment.


whats that?


Nose Landing Gear (NLG). In the photos there was a gap.


ah was curious about that
 
Cardude2
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:48 am

interesting article with The Points Guy interview with CEO Rob McKinney: https://thepointsguy.com/news/northern- ... 57-reveal/

“Obviously we’re going to have to pivot based on the timing of the reopening and, you know, there might be a pivot on timing. There might be a pivot on destinations, but, you know, that’s just not something we can control, but this is a long lead time endeavor.”

The airline is targeting a capacity of about 180 seats in its 757s. It’ll feature a three-cabin layout, with about 12 first class seats, as well as premium economy and economy class.

For context "Icelandair’s 757-200s have seating for 184 passengers, with seats arranged 3-3 in Economy and 2-2 in Saga Premium." (https://www.icelandair.com/about/our-fl ... g-757-200/)

The airline plans to use Ravn’s cryptocurrency-based loyalty program, FlyCoin, and assume its interline agreements. Most notably, Ravn currently partners with Alaska Airlines.

“You can either buy future travel with your cryptocurrency, or you can put it on the exchange and trade it to some other kind of cryptocurrency, you can trade it back into fiat money,” he said. McKinney said they’re hoping for an agreement that will even allow merchants at the Ted Stevens Airport in Anchorage to accept FlyCoin as a form of payment.

One potential obstacle to Northern Pacific’s launch is the ongoing pilot shortage. McKinney said he plans to target pilots who were forced into early retirement due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Eventually, McKinney says he hopes to vertically integrate the pilot pipeline between Ravn, Northern Pacific and FLOAT Shuttle, another one of his aviation ventures.

“So you’ll have from the right seat of a [Cessna] Caravan to the left seat of a Boeing going international, a one-stop shop for your whole career and we’ll be kind of our, our own pilot mill.”

McKinney himself is a licensed pilot and has a love for the 757. He hopes one day to get a type rating that allows him to fly the jet.

“I will be sad if I end up going to my grave and I don’t have a 757 type and I ran a 757 airline,” he said.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6174
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:57 am

He said they want to use ravns Interline agreements. But why would Alaska and one world help them at all?
 
Cardude2
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:07 am

32andBelow wrote:
He said they want to use ravns Interline agreements. But why would Alaska and one world help them at all?


wait where did he say that?
 
User avatar
DL757NYC
Posts: 488
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:07 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:09 am

Airfleets shows they have one 757 on order former US air from 1995 with 80k hours. They should purchase as many low time RR powered 757’s AA has 100 parked. Thewwwa s newest ones have 57k hours 16k cycles 2002.
 
Cardude2
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:15 am

I was browsing the internet and came across AerSale's inventory on planespotters and I have a bet that these reg's are Northerns 5 other aircraft on the basis that before this event, they had mentioned they only had 6 aircraft including N627NP. And these Reg's are the only other arcraft in AerSale's inventory that are ex USAir https://www.planespotters.net/airline/AerSale-Inc

N200UU
N939UW
N207UW
N205UW
N204UW
 
Cardude2
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:17 am

DL757NYC wrote:
Airfleets shows they have one 757 on order former US air from 1995 with 80k hours. They should purchase as many low time RR powered 757’s AA has 100 parked. Thewwwa s newest ones have 57k hours 16k cycles 2002.


its been delivered
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6174
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:19 am

Cardude2 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
He said they want to use ravns Interline agreements. But why would Alaska and one world help them at all?


wait where did he say that?

The points guy interview

The airline plans to use Ravn’s cryptocurrency-based loyalty program, FlyCoin, and assume its interline agreements. Most notably, Ravn currently partners with Alaska Airlines.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 628
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:43 am

32andBelow wrote:
He said they want to use ravns Interline agreements. But why would Alaska and one world help them at all?

I wouldn't call an interline agreement "helping", does AS's interline agrmeets with DL and UA "help" them? But this is an interesting question because last I checked, unlike the big 3 most AS fare rules don't prohibit end-on-end ticketing. Does ravn have interline agreements with anyone else? Frontier Flying Service had an agreement with at least one of the big three.

I wonder if ravn's milage plan partnership is at risk. I wonder how much that even matters.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 4033
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:53 am

32andBelow wrote:
sfojvjets wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
It’s definitely a scam. This guy is just soaking up investment from public and private whirl pedaling. a plan that makes no sense

I don't know about that video... it seems to be grasping at straws.

Do I think NorPac has the most secure, best business model when you look at what covid has done to US-Asia travel? Not at all.

Does the CEO seem slimy from what many people have said? I guess so...

But are they a full-blown scam? I find that hard to believe. Their plan seems pretty harebrained to me, for sure, considering how different the US-Asia and US-Europe markets are. But some of the points brought up in that video can easily be disputed:

1. The youtuber thinks that them choosing the 757 is sketchy, when PVG and HKG are out of its range from ANC, since this is a major part of Asia that can't be reached with their (current) plans. Well, in today's unveiling, the CEO revealed that they are looking at the MAX and XLR as 757 replacement, and are "in discussions over wide-body aircraft moving forward" per DJ Aviation's Twitter. https://twitter.com/DjsAviation/status/ ... 94/photo/1

2. Another of the things he seems to think is sketchy is that N627NP is not in Anchorage. He thinks that it is, for some reason, "stuck" in San Bernardino. Well, today's unveiling was located in–you guessed it–the hangar that 627NP currently occupies in SBD before it is flown out to ANC. And even so, what's the rush for it to go out to ANC? They're only planning on starting operations in Q3/Q4 of this year and the 757 will much prefer SBD's dry climate as opposed to the very wet ANC. Shouldn't they have ample time?

It just seems like a lot of grasping at straws in order to make an interesting-looking video. If it really does end up being a scam, though, good for the people that will be able to say "I told you so". I just think it's a poorly thought out vision rather than an actual scam. I am more interested in finding out what they're going to do with those 12 752s every winter, because the extreme seasonality of the operation is the most intriguing element to me, not whether it's legit or a scam.

So why launch the airline with an obsolete fleet? Why not just wait and do it right with the correct aircrafts?

He also told DJ he’s gonna get super sonic airplanes from boom. He also signed a LOI for like 200 electric airplanes for ravn. He’s all over the place


China will likely be off limits for a good while. Remember that unless you're willing to take aircraft from a leasing company's order book, you can't get an A321neo until 2027. That said, I'm surprised that ICN isn't a consideration (the distance is 3310 nmi). CTS is also well in reach of ANC (2825 nmi)...but is there enough demand to the USA to support a route there bypassing Tokyo?
 
sfojvjets
Posts: 367
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:00 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:11 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
China will likely be off limits for a good while. Remember that unless you're willing to take aircraft from a leasing company's order book, you can't get an A321neo until 2027. That said, I'm surprised that ICN isn't a consideration (the distance is 3310 nmi). CTS is also well in reach of ANC (2825 nmi)...but is there enough demand to the USA to support a route there bypassing Tokyo?

ICN is a consideration, it just looks like they will be focusing on the Japanese market first. I doubt they'll do any flying to Asia this summer though–maybe just p2p Mainland-Alaska flying.

I think there is enough demand to fly to CTS. They definitely would need a robust network from the US though, prior to starting that.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6174
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:24 am

sfojvjets wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
China will likely be off limits for a good while. Remember that unless you're willing to take aircraft from a leasing company's order book, you can't get an A321neo until 2027. That said, I'm surprised that ICN isn't a consideration (the distance is 3310 nmi). CTS is also well in reach of ANC (2825 nmi)...but is there enough demand to the USA to support a route there bypassing Tokyo?

ICN is a consideration, it just looks like they will be focusing on the Japanese market first. I doubt they'll do any flying to Asia this summer though–maybe just p2p Mainland-Alaska flying.

I think there is enough demand to fly to CTS. They definitely would need a robust network from the US though, prior to starting that.

So my question is if they have 5 or 7 cities on the NA side and 2-4 on the Asian side how is that going to work as a daily transfer hub? Don’t these type of operations usually rely on balance on both sides?
 
trexel94
Posts: 250
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:44 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:41 am

Apparently the fleet will be equipped with the ability to order food on-demand (a-la VX style) and the option of streaming Netflix content (if you have an account) but I can’t determine if they’ll include PTVs or device streaming. Sounds like they’ll offer both?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thejetset. ... emand/amp/
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6174
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:03 pm

trexel94 wrote:
Apparently the fleet will be equipped with the ability to order food on-demand (a-la VX style) and the option of streaming Netflix content (if you have an account) but I can’t determine if they’ll include PTVs or device streaming. Sounds like they’ll offer both?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thejetset. ... emand/amp/

They’ll probably just have that new sat internet that claims you can stream through it. But I’ve found it mediocre at best on Alaska at least
 
User avatar
KLMatSJC
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:43 pm

I actually got to attend and got to sit down with Rob McKinney as well: https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/rob-mckinney-interview/
 
flyoregon
Posts: 942
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:50 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
I actually got to attend and got to sit down with Rob McKinney as well: https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/rob-mckinney-interview/


After reading that article, I’m less convinced this idea is a good one.

The fact that this whole plan is based around connectivity and virtually zero O&D is very dumb. What’s going to happen is your going to get a lot of low fare paying backpacking college students looking for a cheap trip to Japan, and before you know it Northern Pacific is gone like WOW is.

He mentions that COVID has presented a good opportunity for them to start, but travel to Asia, as many have already said, is going to be crippled for quite a while. So connecting 5-6 US cities to a couple destinations in Japan (if they’re lucky) via ANC?

Then the question about Ravn and FLOAT and balancing all of them at once…Ravn hasn’t really been a booking success from my understanding since it’s restart, and FLOAT never even got off the ground. To me, this just seems like a lot of money being wasted on not so great of ideas.

Finally, he talks about “big brother” Alaska Airlines and a relationship with them. What is there to gain for Alaska to have any sort of relationship with this nonsense? Zero. Alaska could have done this very thing by getting longer range aircraft and connecting people through ANC to places in Asia, but they didn’t. Know why? Because it’s a stupid idea.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6174
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:39 pm

flyoregon wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
I actually got to attend and got to sit down with Rob McKinney as well: https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/rob-mckinney-interview/


After reading that article, I’m less convinced this idea is a good one.

The fact that this whole plan is based around connectivity and virtually zero O&D is very dumb. What’s going to happen is your going to get a lot of low fare paying backpacking college students looking for a cheap trip to Japan, and before you know it Northern Pacific is gone like WOW is.

He mentions that COVID has presented a good opportunity for them to start, but travel to Asia, as many have already said, is going to be crippled for quite a while. So connecting 5-6 US cities to a couple destinations in Japan (if they’re lucky) via ANC?

Then the question about Ravn and FLOAT and balancing all of them at once…Ravn hasn’t really been a booking success from my understanding since it’s restart, and FLOAT never even got off the ground. To me, this just seems like a lot of money being wasted on not so great of ideas.

Finally, he talks about “big brother” Alaska Airlines and a relationship with them. What is there to gain for Alaska to have any sort of relationship with this nonsense? Zero. Alaska could have done this very thing by getting longer range aircraft and connecting people through ANC to places in Asia, but they didn’t. Know why? Because it’s a stupid idea.

The whole thing sounds like he’s playing some airline manager game on his iPhone
 
flyoregon
Posts: 942
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:40 pm

32andBelow wrote:
flyoregon wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
I actually got to attend and got to sit down with Rob McKinney as well: https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/rob-mckinney-interview/


After reading that article, I’m less convinced this idea is a good one.

The fact that this whole plan is based around connectivity and virtually zero O&D is very dumb. What’s going to happen is your going to get a lot of low fare paying backpacking college students looking for a cheap trip to Japan, and before you know it Northern Pacific is gone like WOW is.

He mentions that COVID has presented a good opportunity for them to start, but travel to Asia, as many have already said, is going to be crippled for quite a while. So connecting 5-6 US cities to a couple destinations in Japan (if they’re lucky) via ANC?

Then the question about Ravn and FLOAT and balancing all of them at once…Ravn hasn’t really been a booking success from my understanding since it’s restart, and FLOAT never even got off the ground. To me, this just seems like a lot of money being wasted on not so great of ideas.

Finally, he talks about “big brother” Alaska Airlines and a relationship with them. What is there to gain for Alaska to have any sort of relationship with this nonsense? Zero. Alaska could have done this very thing by getting longer range aircraft and connecting people through ANC to places in Asia, but they didn’t. Know why? Because it’s a stupid idea.

The whole thing sounds like he’s playing some airline manager game on his iPhone


He probably sucks at that too
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6174
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:52 pm

flyoregon wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
flyoregon wrote:

After reading that article, I’m less convinced this idea is a good one.

The fact that this whole plan is based around connectivity and virtually zero O&D is very dumb. What’s going to happen is your going to get a lot of low fare paying backpacking college students looking for a cheap trip to Japan, and before you know it Northern Pacific is gone like WOW is.

He mentions that COVID has presented a good opportunity for them to start, but travel to Asia, as many have already said, is going to be crippled for quite a while. So connecting 5-6 US cities to a couple destinations in Japan (if they’re lucky) via ANC?

Then the question about Ravn and FLOAT and balancing all of them at once…Ravn hasn’t really been a booking success from my understanding since it’s restart, and FLOAT never even got off the ground. To me, this just seems like a lot of money being wasted on not so great of ideas.

Finally, he talks about “big brother” Alaska Airlines and a relationship with them. What is there to gain for Alaska to have any sort of relationship with this nonsense? Zero. Alaska could have done this very thing by getting longer range aircraft and connecting people through ANC to places in Asia, but they didn’t. Know why? Because it’s a stupid idea.

The whole thing sounds like he’s playing some airline manager game on his iPhone


He probably sucks at that too

Maybe the whole play is the crypto FF program !
 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 2045
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:46 pm

I'm not sure where people get there is zero O/D data between Alaska & Asia. Right now its slowed to a crawl, but pre-covid. the MIDT (DOT) and ARC/BSP data says otherwise.

Time will tell - I can't see them doing daily flights all over - but Allegiant-style flying. 3-4x a week, scheduled, in the GDS, and visible.

That's a lot more than others - People Express, Dynamic/Eastern/whatever, Avelo, Aha! etc. Even Southwest is now in all the distribution channels.
 
RalXWB
Posts: 562
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:36 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:49 pm

I wonder what happens when one of those Fossils gets tech...
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6174
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:29 pm

usxguy wrote:
I'm not sure where people get there is zero O/D data between Alaska & Asia. Right now its slowed to a crawl, but pre-covid. the MIDT (DOT) and ARC/BSP data says otherwise.

Time will tell - I can't see them doing daily flights all over - but Allegiant-style flying. 3-4x a week, scheduled, in the GDS, and visible.

That's a lot more than others - People Express, Dynamic/Eastern/whatever, Avelo, Aha! etc. Even Southwest is now in all the distribution channels.

They are quoting the CEO who repeatedly says that they are going after connecting traffic
 
Lootess
Posts: 818
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:40 pm

I like Rob McKinney, he's very open with the media, candid about his business practices, along with his success on jump starting Ravn Alaska again. He did things better than the previous owners right off the cuff with bringing the DH8-300 on-property and making ANC-DUT non-stop. He admires Iceland Air, and his strategy with 757s seems fair minded to me.
 
Cardude2
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:48 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
sfojvjets wrote:
I don't know about that video... it seems to be grasping at straws.

Do I think NorPac has the most secure, best business model when you look at what covid has done to US-Asia travel? Not at all.

Does the CEO seem slimy from what many people have said? I guess so...

But are they a full-blown scam? I find that hard to believe. Their plan seems pretty harebrained to me, for sure, considering how different the US-Asia and US-Europe markets are. But some of the points brought up in that video can easily be disputed:

1. The youtuber thinks that them choosing the 757 is sketchy, when PVG and HKG are out of its range from ANC, since this is a major part of Asia that can't be reached with their (current) plans. Well, in today's unveiling, the CEO revealed that they are looking at the MAX and XLR as 757 replacement, and are "in discussions over wide-body aircraft moving forward" per DJ Aviation's Twitter. https://twitter.com/DjsAviation/status/ ... 94/photo/1

2. Another of the things he seems to think is sketchy is that N627NP is not in Anchorage. He thinks that it is, for some reason, "stuck" in San Bernardino. Well, today's unveiling was located in–you guessed it–the hangar that 627NP currently occupies in SBD before it is flown out to ANC. And even so, what's the rush for it to go out to ANC? They're only planning on starting operations in Q3/Q4 of this year and the 757 will much prefer SBD's dry climate as opposed to the very wet ANC. Shouldn't they have ample time?

It just seems like a lot of grasping at straws in order to make an interesting-looking video. If it really does end up being a scam, though, good for the people that will be able to say "I told you so". I just think it's a poorly thought out vision rather than an actual scam. I am more interested in finding out what they're going to do with those 12 752s every winter, because the extreme seasonality of the operation is the most intriguing element to me, not whether it's legit or a scam.

So why launch the airline with an obsolete fleet? Why not just wait and do it right with the correct aircrafts?

He also told DJ he’s gonna get super sonic airplanes from boom. He also signed a LOI for like 200 electric airplanes for ravn. He’s all over the place


China will likely be off limits for a good while. Remember that unless you're willing to take aircraft from a leasing company's order book, you can't get an A321neo until 2027. That said, I'm surprised that ICN isn't a consideration (the distance is 3310 nmi). CTS is also well in reach of ANC (2825 nmi)...but is there enough demand to the USA to support a route there bypassing Tokyo?


ICN will be one of the launch routes. As for the airbuses, he's looking for the cheapest aircraft, and the MAXes are under consideration, soooo yeah but airbus just dropped Qatar's A321 order (consisted of 40 321neos and 10 LR's).
 
User avatar
sjones1975
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:23 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:44 pm

Cardude2 wrote:
The jet is alive courtesy of Dan from Dj’s Aviation: https://twitter.com/DjsAviation

Image



I like the 'raccoon eyes' on the paintjob; NP made a good choice going with the Airbus a757-200 for its fleet ;-)
 
Breathe
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:50 pm

DL757NYC wrote:
Airfleets shows they have one 757 on order former US air from 1995 with 80k hours. They should purchase as many low time RR powered 757’s AA has 100 parked. Thewwwa s newest ones have 57k hours 16k cycles 2002.

I want them to buy them just for the sound of the RB211. :biggrin:
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6174
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:54 pm

So they are gonna have a mixed engine fleet. First class, a lounge, supersonic airplanes and they are low cost.
 
flyoregon
Posts: 942
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:05 am

32andBelow wrote:
So they are gonna have a mixed engine fleet. First class, a lounge, supersonic airplanes and they are low cost.


There’s a reason why Allegiant’s 757 Hawaii experiment failed and it’s not because there wasn’t a market for low fares to Hawaii…

Getting old planes and choosing destinations based on the range of those airplanes is a recipe for disappointment.
 
User avatar
KLMatSJC
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:15 am

32andBelow wrote:
So they are gonna have a mixed engine fleet. First class, a lounge, supersonic airplanes and they are low cost.

Everything except Concorde 2.0, but yes.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6174
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:32 am

flyoregon wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
So they are gonna have a mixed engine fleet. First class, a lounge, supersonic airplanes and they are low cost.


There’s a reason why Allegiant’s 757 Hawaii experiment failed and it’s not because there wasn’t a market for low fares to Hawaii…

Getting old planes and choosing destinations based on the range of those airplanes is a recipe for disappointment.

Unless your operating a hotel at Erickson air station
 
Cardude2
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:00 am

32andBelow wrote:
flyoregon wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
So they are gonna have a mixed engine fleet. First class, a lounge, supersonic airplanes and they are low cost.


There’s a reason why Allegiant’s 757 Hawaii experiment failed and it’s not because there wasn’t a market for low fares to Hawaii…

Getting old planes and choosing destinations based on the range of those airplanes is a recipe for disappointment.

Unless your operating a hotel at Erickson air station


or your name is icelandair
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos