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TWA772LR
Posts: 8132
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Wed May 25, 2022 10:45 pm

With minimal knowledge on this operation, I'd say they were definitely banking on Russian airspace to avoid costly ETOPS certification in the short run.

I hope they have some really good cargo contracts, that is what will keep them going. I wish them well.
 
roadrunner165
Posts: 939
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:28 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat May 28, 2022 3:39 am

All our questions will be answered on June 2, apparently. Not sure why I get random spam emails from Ravn at work, but according to the email in my inbox this evening you can join Ravn Alaska and Northern Pacific Airways CEO Rob McKinney and Chairman Josh Jones for an informative webinar, Thursday, June 2 at 1pm AKST via np.com/zoom.

Oh, and remember there's less than a week left for early bird access to invest in Ravn / Northern Pacific.
Ravn Customers can invest as little as $100 at: www.wefunder.com/northernpacificairways

:rotfl: :cry2: :wave:
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6278
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat May 28, 2022 4:17 am

If you invest 5 million they will paint a plane for you
 
Wneast
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat May 28, 2022 4:18 am

32andBelow wrote:
If you invest 5 million they will paint a plane for you

I saw that I was like if I had that sitting around I want in.
 
Chugach
Posts: 1435
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat May 28, 2022 3:57 pm

TexasAirCorp wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
actually, I just wrote about that in the EAS thread:

https://starherald.com/news/local/weste ... 687de.html

North Platte rejects Boutique Air and Southern Airways Express's bid citing their planes did not qualify leaving what looks to be the only option Ravn airways (northern pacific airways) q300. Unsure if reduced OO service is an option for this route as it says nothing about it in the article.


Haha. I just saw it - and replied! The conversation may be more relevant for here:

Does Ravn even quality for EAS ops, considering now the DOT is funny about giving operators contracts without interline/connection agreement to a major carrier? I'm aware Ravn is a partner of Alaska Mileage Plan, does that also extend to allowing for connections and single flight bookings through Alaska?

Speaking more generally, surely Alaska would be quick to drop its Ravn deal once (or perhaps, if) Northern Pacific starts operating and competing against them? The investor proposal speaks a lot about allowing Ravn passengers to connect onto Northern Pacific, presumably that would replace any dealings with Alaska?


You can actually book Ravn connections on delta.com, oddly enough. You can book, for example, MSP-UNK entirely through Delta.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5557
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat May 28, 2022 6:18 pm

roadrunner165 wrote:
All our questions will be answered on June 2, apparently. Not sure why I get random spam emails from Ravn at work, but according to the email in my inbox this evening you can join Ravn Alaska and Northern Pacific Airways CEO Rob McKinney and Chairman Josh Jones for an informative webinar, Thursday, June 2 at 1pm AKST via np.com/zoom.

Oh, and remember there's less than a week left for early bird access to invest in Ravn / Northern Pacific.
Ravn Customers can invest as little as $100 at: http://www.wefunder.com/northernpacificairways

:rotfl: :cry2: :wave:


This website is interesting as it gives the specific 757s they've purchased and intend to acquire:
MSN 28748-51 are N595-598UA
28707-08 are N589-590UA
27808-11 are the four ex-US/AA birds
26713 and 26717 are N587-588UA

I know having a fleet with different engine types was heresy before merger-mania happened, but they're going to do it.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6278
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat May 28, 2022 6:37 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
roadrunner165 wrote:
All our questions will be answered on June 2, apparently. Not sure why I get random spam emails from Ravn at work, but according to the email in my inbox this evening you can join Ravn Alaska and Northern Pacific Airways CEO Rob McKinney and Chairman Josh Jones for an informative webinar, Thursday, June 2 at 1pm AKST via np.com/zoom.

Oh, and remember there's less than a week left for early bird access to invest in Ravn / Northern Pacific.
Ravn Customers can invest as little as $100 at: http://www.wefunder.com/northernpacificairways

:rotfl: :cry2: :wave:


This website is interesting as it gives the specific 757s they've purchased and intend to acquire:
MSN 28748-51 are N595-598UA
28707-08 are N589-590UA
27808-11 are the four ex-US/AA birds
26713 and 26717 are N587-588UA

I know having a fleet with different engine types was heresy before merger-mania happened, but they're going to do it.

Well I don’t think they are planning to do their own maintenance so does it really matter? It does seem concerning they won’t have a large hangar in anchorage where the planes will spend most of their time on the ground. And they parter with delta tech ops who doesn’t have a base in anchorage
 
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chunhimlai
Posts: 795
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Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat May 28, 2022 7:05 pm

https://wefunder.com/northernpacificairways

Northern Pacific now welcome everyone to “invest” their business

Investors can get souvenirs from free drinks to custom design aircraft painting
 
roadrunner165
Posts: 939
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:28 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat May 28, 2022 10:24 pm

Depending on how this goes, I might just say screw it and book a ticket on one of their first flights. I’ve done a lot of travel this past year where I let the destination choose me if the price was right. Worst case, it’s a call to dispute the charge, if they go under before launch.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6278
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sun May 29, 2022 1:14 am

roadrunner165 wrote:
Depending on how this goes, I might just say screw it and book a ticket on one of their first flights. I’ve done a lot of travel this past year where I let the destination choose me if the price was right. Worst case, it’s a call to dispute the charge, if they go under before launch.

You can already book flights on icelandair
 
USAirKid
Posts: 1281
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sun May 29, 2022 3:42 am

32andBelow wrote:
roadrunner165 wrote:
Depending on how this goes, I might just say screw it and book a ticket on one of their first flights. I’ve done a lot of travel this past year where I let the destination choose me if the price was right. Worst case, it’s a call to dispute the charge, if they go under before launch.

You can already book flights on icelandair


How does this relate to Icelandair?
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6278
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sun May 29, 2022 4:09 am

USAirKid wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
roadrunner165 wrote:
Depending on how this goes, I might just say screw it and book a ticket on one of their first flights. I’ve done a lot of travel this past year where I let the destination choose me if the price was right. Worst case, it’s a call to dispute the charge, if they go under before launch.

You can already book flights on icelandair


How does this relate to Icelandair?

That’s whose operating the flights for NP
 
USAirKid
Posts: 1281
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sun May 29, 2022 5:04 am

32andBelow wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
You can already book flights on icelandair


How does this relate to Icelandair?

That’s whose operating the flights for NP



Sure, but that doesn’t make it a Northern Pacific flight…
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sun May 29, 2022 1:59 pm

TexasAirCorp wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
actually, I just wrote about that in the EAS thread:

https://starherald.com/news/local/weste ... 687de.html

North Platte rejects Boutique Air and Southern Airways Express's bid citing their planes did not qualify leaving what looks to be the only option Ravn airways (northern pacific airways) q300. Unsure if reduced OO service is an option for this route as it says nothing about it in the article.


Haha. I just saw it - and replied! The conversation may be more relevant for here:

Does Ravn even quality for EAS ops, considering now the DOT is funny about giving operators contracts without interline/connection agreement to a major carrier? I'm aware Ravn is a partner of Alaska Mileage Plan, does that also extend to allowing for connections and single flight bookings through Alaska?

Speaking more generally, surely Alaska would be quick to drop its Ravn deal once (or perhaps, if) Northern Pacific starts operating and competing against them? The investor proposal speaks a lot about allowing Ravn passengers to connect onto Northern Pacific, presumably that would replace any dealings with Alaska?

7H has a full interline agreement and even codeshares with AS. They also have an interline agreement with DL. (I think they also have one with UA and/or AA, but not sure).
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6278
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sun May 29, 2022 4:04 pm

Aliqiout wrote:
TexasAirCorp wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
actually, I just wrote about that in the EAS thread:

https://starherald.com/news/local/weste ... 687de.html

North Platte rejects Boutique Air and Southern Airways Express's bid citing their planes did not qualify leaving what looks to be the only option Ravn airways (northern pacific airways) q300. Unsure if reduced OO service is an option for this route as it says nothing about it in the article.


Haha. I just saw it - and replied! The conversation may be more relevant for here:

Does Ravn even quality for EAS ops, considering now the DOT is funny about giving operators contracts without interline/connection agreement to a major carrier? I'm aware Ravn is a partner of Alaska Mileage Plan, does that also extend to allowing for connections and single flight bookings through Alaska?

Speaking more generally, surely Alaska would be quick to drop its Ravn deal once (or perhaps, if) Northern Pacific starts operating and competing against them? The investor proposal speaks a lot about allowing Ravn passengers to connect onto Northern Pacific, presumably that would replace any dealings with Alaska?

7H has a full interline agreement and even codeshares with AS. They also have an interline agreement with DL. (I think they also have one with UA and/or AA, but not sure).

They do not have a codeshare with AS.
 
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c933103
Posts: 6605
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Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sun May 29, 2022 4:21 pm

Cardude2 wrote:
Western727 wrote:
TWA902fly wrote:

CO/UA flew EWR-ARN on a 757, 3,930 miles.
DL flew ATL-BSB on a 757, 4,110 miles.

There are examples, albeit not too many and they don’t account for winds. Infamously, CO/UA had trouble with EWR-TXL westbound in the winter with a 757 at 3,980 miles.

‘902


I stand corrected...thanks, '902. Then I'm guessing even with adjusting the route to not overfly Russia ICN is still doable at roughly 3,900 mi, except maybe in the winter.


yep, in the winter, they might only be able to only fill the plane 80-90%. But otherwise, they can fly to Japan (not Okinawa), South Korea, and if they can make it financially work, certain places in china that are big but you might not have heard of.

Without using Russian or North Korean airspace, even Dalian or Yantai are over 4400 miles away from Anchorage. Nantong would be like 4600 miles away. Not to mention other more inland cities. They can forget about it.
Image

------

Also, another thing in place against more of such flight is the 28x weekly flight restriction in the current China-US air service agreement for Zone 2 Chinese cities, which cover most coastal Chinese cities outside the big three.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Mon May 30, 2022 2:22 am

32andBelow wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
TexasAirCorp wrote:

Haha. I just saw it - and replied! The conversation may be more relevant for here:

Does Ravn even quality for EAS ops, considering now the DOT is funny about giving operators contracts without interline/connection agreement to a major carrier? I'm aware Ravn is a partner of Alaska Mileage Plan, does that also extend to allowing for connections and single flight bookings through Alaska?

Speaking more generally, surely Alaska would be quick to drop its Ravn deal once (or perhaps, if) Northern Pacific starts operating and competing against them? The investor proposal speaks a lot about allowing Ravn passengers to connect onto Northern Pacific, presumably that would replace any dealings with Alaska?

7H has a full interline agreement and even codeshares with AS. They also have an interline agreement with DL. (I think they also have one with UA and/or AA, but not sure).

They do not have a codeshare with AS.

I forgot about the bankruptcy..AS did codeshare with the pre bankruptcy RAVN, but the interline agmeent is alive and well.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6278
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Mon May 30, 2022 3:18 am

Aliqiout wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
7H has a full interline agreement and even codeshares with AS. They also have an interline agreement with DL. (I think they also have one with UA and/or AA, but not sure).

They do not have a codeshare with AS.

I forgot about the bankruptcy..AS did codeshare with the pre bankruptcy RAVN, but the interline agmeent is alive and well.

That’s true. But it should be stressed that the current ravn is a totally different entity.
 
Cardude2
Posts: 761
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:41 pm

northern pacific had a webinar where they presented there presentation that's on Wefunder and answered questions for 40 mins
zoom recording link: https://wefunder.com/updates/155846-web ... m_swu=7524

some insightful questions: these are TLDR notes I wrote based on what rob said, iff you want detail go watch the video and skip to 17 min in.

will you partner with Alaska on your Asia flights?
-Rob: were in discussions right now with Alaska, there will be at least an interline agreement on Alaska.

note from later: also has a thing with Delta.

(someone asked about Icelandair government subsites and profitability)?
-Rob: In my talks with Icelandair they were really profitable on their own.

there looking to add a second Q300 and some beech 1900s for cargo and I guess passenger

said the reason there doing Wefunder is to allow fellow Alaskans to support the airline

has a list of 25 cites in the lower 48 they find are viable. Also are looking into the possibility of northern china.

the reason their chartering 757s is indeed the Russian airspace closure and the now need for ETOPS.

advantage of buying beech 1900's is to hire pilots right out of school to alleviate some pilot hiring problems.

want to serve the Aleutian islands.

will re-add Kodiak with thew beech 1900s

might add Canada

The reason for not adding lie-flat seats is to not look like there poaching from the big 3.

Free wifi for all, will not have to pay for carrying on.

there doing both funding, institutional and this. This first and institutional last

local press coming soon in the next few days

those are my notes
 
TexasAirCorp
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:24 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat Jun 04, 2022 12:23 am

Cardude2 wrote:
-Rob: In my talks with Icelandair they were really profitable on their own.

Did he provide any proof of this? Unless they’ve suddenly turned around in the past six months it’s nonsense.

Also interesting he talks so much about Ravn’s expansion, did he state that this will be funded through the crowdfunding campaign?
 
32andBelow
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat Jun 04, 2022 12:27 am

I just watched it to. The b190 thing he said wa shift for cargo. Then randomly said they were going to fly to kodiak. After he said that kodiak has more seats than ever through Alaska airlines.

He Aidan that they are only going to go to Japan and Korea multiple times a day but then go to 25 cities in the lower 48.

He also said that the wet lease partner wasn’t picked. The slide in the deck of the zoom all of a sudden said wet lease partner and not Iceland air.

No one asked how they intent to have a hub airline with only 3 airplanes to start. And he also said the first round has 5 L48 cities who in obviously cannot be accomplished with 3 airplanes. The only thing I can think of is that he’s planning on temporarily “selling” the NP planes to the wet least partner to operate along side the 3 wet lease frames.

He also said etops cert would take 1.5-2 years so I can’t imagine they’ll be flying their own flights for a least 3 years
Last edited by 32andBelow on Sat Jun 04, 2022 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
flyoregon
Posts: 976
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat Jun 04, 2022 12:30 am

TexasAirCorp wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
-Rob: In my talks with Icelandair they were really profitable on their own.

Did he provide any proof of this? Unless they’ve suddenly turned around in the past six months it’s nonsense.

Also interesting he talks so much about Ravn’s expansion, did he state that this will be funded through the crowdfunding campaign?


He's an executive, so we should believe what he says :roll:

This guys has never provided any proof or evidence for any of his claims. I could just as easily come up with a plan for an international airline and claim successes without any proof. This thing seems to have a lot of money backing it, but so did SkyBus. And frankly, Rob's track record sucks.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6278
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat Jun 04, 2022 12:44 am

flyoregon wrote:
TexasAirCorp wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
-Rob: In my talks with Icelandair they were really profitable on their own.

Did he provide any proof of this? Unless they’ve suddenly turned around in the past six months it’s nonsense.

Also interesting he talks so much about Ravn’s expansion, did he state that this will be funded through the crowdfunding campaign?


He's an executive, so we should believe what he says :roll:

This guys has never provided any proof or evidence for any of his claims. I could just as easily come up with a plan for an international airline and claim successes without any proof. This thing seems to have a lot of money backing it, but so did SkyBus. And frankly, Rob's track record sucks.

If it had a lot of backing why would they be doing crowdfunding?
 
flyoregon
Posts: 976
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:04 am

32andBelow wrote:
flyoregon wrote:
TexasAirCorp wrote:
Did he provide any proof of this? Unless they’ve suddenly turned around in the past six months it’s nonsense.

Also interesting he talks so much about Ravn’s expansion, did he state that this will be funded through the crowdfunding campaign?


He's an executive, so we should believe what he says :roll:

This guys has never provided any proof or evidence for any of his claims. I could just as easily come up with a plan for an international airline and claim successes without any proof. This thing seems to have a lot of money backing it, but so did SkyBus. And frankly, Rob's track record sucks.

If it had a lot of backing why would they be doing crowdfunding?


That’s an excellent point. I guess I’m just going off the fact that the “leadership” team has at least some money and they were able to drum up enough to buy the assets of Ravn and a few 757s
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6278
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:37 am

flyoregon wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
flyoregon wrote:

He's an executive, so we should believe what he says :roll:

This guys has never provided any proof or evidence for any of his claims. I could just as easily come up with a plan for an international airline and claim successes without any proof. This thing seems to have a lot of money backing it, but so did SkyBus. And frankly, Rob's track record sucks.

If it had a lot of backing why would they be doing crowdfunding?


That’s an excellent point. I guess I’m just going off the fact that the “leadership” team has at least some money and they were able to drum up enough to buy the assets of Ravn and a few 757s

They also rattled off a random EAS bid thousands of miles away from their base.
 
Cardude2
Posts: 761
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat Jun 04, 2022 2:52 am

TexasAirCorp wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
-Rob: In my talks with Icelandair they were really profitable on their own.

Did he provide any proof of this? Unless they’ve suddenly turned around in the past six months it’s nonsense.

Also interesting he talks so much about Ravn’s expansion, did he state that this will be funded through the crowdfunding campaign?


No and no
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6278
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:55 am

Omni is starting an ANC FA base… hmmm
 
TexasAirCorp
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:24 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sun Jun 05, 2022 4:37 pm

Just watched the Q&A session... oh my lord. The parts that really stood out for me were:
-The fact that the first minute was spent talking about investing in Ravn and not NP
-The numerous occasions where the status of NP and Ravn seemed to change, at one point 'they're essentially the same company', then 'NP is a division of Ravn', then 'they're separate companies', then 'Ravn will be renamed NP'
-The fact that only parts of the PowerPoint had been updated to reflect that the Icelandair wet lease is now not happening
-When the Chairman:
---didn't know what ETOPS was
---stated he 'didn't think it was fair to only offer investment potential to qualified investors' (???)
-When McKinney:
---wasn't able to answer questions about Icelandair finances and described them as 'really profitable on their own'
---dodged a question on the longevity of his 752s
---stated the company will have low competitive risk because 'it's Alaska!'
---stated he 'doesn't want to compete with Alaska' then stated Ravn plans to compete with them to Kodiak

Some actual facts that were revealed:
---757s will be in 184 pax, two-class config
---First routes will be:
------US: Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Orlando, San Francisco (no airports stated, safe to assume Las Vegas will be LAS)
------Asia: Nagoya, Osaka, Seoul (ICN), Tokyo (NRT)
------DFW 'on the list for the future'
-Ticket sales potentially open in August
-Ravn's new B1900s will be used to transport baggage for full Dash 8 flights (basically, operating a separate flight just for luggage).

Maybe reading a bit too far into this, but I was also very interested in the fact that the Chairman only answered a few questions about basic facts regarding investment, seemed to demonstrate zero knowledge about NP, and his knowledge about Ravn and the whole fundraising campaign seemed to conflict McKinney? I know the guy has no aviation background and seems purely there as a cash cow, however I really got the feeling that McKinney's been, let's say 'stretching the truth', to him so he keeps pumping cash in. The fact he had to ask what ETOPS was suggests he either has no idea regarding the reasoning for wet leasing, or there's really something else going on behind the scenes and McKinney's spinning some story to keep investors interested.

Also, regarding the initial Icelandair wet lease plan, does anyone know what exactly's happened to that? The slides shown on the video still have 'FI Wet Lease' on, however I now notice the slides on the website have the FI bit removed.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6278
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sun Jun 05, 2022 4:46 pm

TexasAirCorp wrote:
Just watched the Q&A session... oh my lord. The parts that really stood out for me were:
-The fact that the first minute was spent talking about investing in Ravn and not NP
-The numerous occasions where the status of NP and Ravn seemed to change, at one point 'they're essentially the same company', then 'NP is a division of Ravn', then 'they're separate companies', then 'Ravn will be renamed NP'
-The fact that only parts of the PowerPoint had been updated to reflect that the Icelandair wet lease is now not happening
-When the Chairman:
---didn't know what ETOPS was
---stated he 'didn't think it was fair to only offer investment potential to qualified investors' (???)
-When McKinney:
---wasn't able to answer questions about Icelandair finances and described them as 'really profitable on their own'
---dodged a question on the longevity of his 752s
---stated the company will have low competitive risk because 'it's Alaska!'
---stated he 'doesn't want to compete with Alaska' then stated Ravn plans to compete with them to Kodiak

Some actual facts that were revealed:
---757s will be in 184 pax, two-class config
---First routes will be:
------US: Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Orlando, San Francisco (no airports stated, safe to assume Las Vegas will be LAS)
------Asia: Nagoya, Osaka, Seoul (ICN), Tokyo (NRT)
------DFW 'on the list for the future'
-Ticket sales potentially open in August
-Ravn's new B1900s will be used to transport baggage for full Dash 8 flights (basically, operating a separate flight just for luggage).

Maybe reading a bit too far into this, but I was also very interested in the fact that the Chairman only answered a few questions about basic facts regarding investment, seemed to demonstrate zero knowledge about NP, and his knowledge about Ravn and the whole fundraising campaign seemed to conflict McKinney? I know the guy has no aviation background and seems purely there as a cash cow, however I really got the feeling that McKinney's been, let's say 'stretching the truth', to him so he keeps pumping cash in. The fact he had to ask what ETOPS was suggests he either has no idea regarding the reasoning for wet leasing, or there's really something else going on behind the scenes and McKinney's spinning some story to keep investors interested.

Also, regarding the initial Icelandair wet lease plan, does anyone know what exactly's happened to that? The slides shown on the video still have 'FI Wet Lease' on, however I now notice the slides on the website have the FI bit removed.

No one was sure if FI was allowed to fly between 2 points in the US. Imagine if someone spun up a new airline between New York and LA and then contracted emirates to fly it. I’m not sure it’s allowed.

In regards to the b190. They didn’t get the hageland certificate so as far as I can tell they are going to need to spin up a whole 135 cert and add the b190 to that.
 
MO11
Posts: 2133
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:34 pm

32andBelow wrote:

In regards to the b190. They didn’t get the hageland certificate so as far as I can tell they are going to need to spin up a whole 135 cert and add the b190 to that.


Or it could fly the 1900 with 19 seats under FAR 121 (as opposed to 9 seats under FAR 135).
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6278
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:32 pm

MO11 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:

In regards to the b190. They didn’t get the hageland certificate so as far as I can tell they are going to need to spin up a whole 135 cert and add the b190 to that.


Or it could fly the 1900 with 19 seats under FAR 121 (as opposed to 9 seats under FAR 135).

They were talking about creating a pilot pipeline where you can spend your whole career there. So needing the 121 pilot mins wouldn’t make much sense. Either way it’s yet another plane to add to their certificate
 
CREST777
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 5:46 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:11 am

I see a lot of gaps with this business. The whole thing going from FLOAT to Ravn and now NP mixed in with FlyCoin seems very unfocused. Are they an airline? A commuter service ? A transatlantic ULCC with a premium twist ?

This would be a lot for a well funded, established enterprise. Ludicrous for an upstart yet to generate cash. Keep in mind the principals really have no good track record when it comes to running a airline.

Now throw in them crowd funding start up capital and it seems like they are trying to satisfy a hobby or something. They are going to need over $150m or so to get off the ground. B6 had something like $120m and that was decades ago! Plus they were trying to start a LCC, not a million other ventures at once.

How did they even orchestrate the Ravn acquisition ? Did this group of investors pony up the funds to acquire them? I thought that was a rather big move. Good for them. Call me a skeptic.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6278
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:13 pm

CREST777 wrote:
I see a lot of gaps with this business. The whole thing going from FLOAT to Ravn and now NP mixed in with FlyCoin seems very unfocused. Are they an airline? A commuter service ? A transatlantic ULCC with a premium twist ?

This would be a lot for a well funded, established enterprise. Ludicrous for an upstart yet to generate cash. Keep in mind the principals really have no good track record when it comes to running a airline.

Now throw in them crowd funding start up capital and it seems like they are trying to satisfy a hobby or something. They are going to need over $150m or so to get off the ground. B6 had something like $120m and that was decades ago! Plus they were trying to start a LCC, not a million other ventures at once.

How did they even orchestrate the Ravn acquisition ? Did this group of investors pony up the funds to acquire them? I thought that was a rather big move. Good for them. Call me a skeptic.

Ravn was sold at auction. One of the partners is an alleged crypto millionaire. It was interesting they won the auction as they didn’t have the highest bid
 
roadrunner165
Posts: 939
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:28 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:38 am

I emailed them probably 4 months back and asked if they had funding from the Alaska Permanent Fund Corporation and never heard back. It would not surprise me if this was someone’s pet project on the publics dime.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6278
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:50 am

roadrunner165 wrote:
I emailed them probably 4 months back and asked if they had funding from the Alaska Permanent Fund Corporation and never heard back. It would not surprise me if this was someone’s pet project on the publics dime.

Whose paying for the terminal improvement? Hopefully delta and United take it when it’s available again.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 26351
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:24 pm

DOT granted their air traffic rights under US-Japan open-skies agreement to offer scheduled passengers, mail, and cargo between the nations.

DOT-OST-2022-0060

They still need their FAA air carrier authority to utilize their proposed 757s, though are free to sublease another qualified carrier now and make use of the economic authority.
 
Cardude2
Posts: 761
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:28 pm

LAXintl wrote:
DOT granted their air traffic rights under US-Japan open-skies agreement to offer scheduled passengers, mail, and cargo between the nations.

DOT-OST-2022-0060

They still need their FAA air carrier authority to utilize their proposed 757s, though are free to sublease another qualified carrier now and make use of the economic authority.


sorry if this is a dumb question but does this mean they don't need ETOPS anymore?

link to law: https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0060-0001

my guess is Icelandair's wet-lease fell through because Icelandair became independently wealthy by selling the 752s to freighter carriers.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 26351
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:17 pm

Cardude2 wrote:
sorry if this is a dumb question but does this mean they don't need ETOPS anymore?


The two have nothing to do with each other.

All they received today was the underlying economic authority to offer service between the US and Japan.

What they require from the FAA to operate their 757 aircraft is a separate issue.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6278
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:01 pm

Cardude2 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
DOT granted their air traffic rights under US-Japan open-skies agreement to offer scheduled passengers, mail, and cargo between the nations.

DOT-OST-2022-0060

They still need their FAA air carrier authority to utilize their proposed 757s, though are free to sublease another qualified carrier now and make use of the economic authority.


sorry if this is a dumb question but does this mean they don't need ETOPS anymore?

link to law: https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0060-0001

my guess is Icelandair's wet-lease fell through because Icelandair became independently wealthy by selling the 752s to freighter carriers.

Was it even proven that Iceland air can operate flights in the US? I find it hard to believe. Imagine if some new carrier spun up between LA and NY and chartered Emirates
 
Cardude2
Posts: 761
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:18 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
DOT granted their air traffic rights under US-Japan open-skies agreement to offer scheduled passengers, mail, and cargo between the nations.

DOT-OST-2022-0060

They still need their FAA air carrier authority to utilize their proposed 757s, though are free to sublease another qualified carrier now and make use of the economic authority.


sorry if this is a dumb question but does this mean they don't need ETOPS anymore?

link to law: https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0060-0001

my guess is Icelandair's wet-lease fell through because Icelandair became independently wealthy by selling the 752s to freighter carriers.

Was it even proven that Iceland air can operate flights in the US? I find it hard to believe. Imagine if some new carrier spun up between LA and NY and chartered Emirates


I have no idea, sorry.
 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 2100
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:21 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
DOT granted their air traffic rights under US-Japan open-skies agreement to offer scheduled passengers, mail, and cargo between the nations.

DOT-OST-2022-0060

They still need their FAA air carrier authority to utilize their proposed 757s, though are free to sublease another qualified carrier now and make use of the economic authority.


sorry if this is a dumb question but does this mean they don't need ETOPS anymore?

link to law: https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0060-0001

my guess is Icelandair's wet-lease fell through because Icelandair became independently wealthy by selling the 752s to freighter carriers.

Was it even proven that Iceland air can operate flights in the US? I find it hard to believe. Imagine if some new carrier spun up between LA and NY and chartered Emirates


There are very few cabotage carveouts in DOT regs. A lot of dust on these regs was blown up a few years ago when a Canadian hockey team used the same plane to fly within the US instead of just direct Canada -> US; the plane did a BUNCH of flying inside the US and I think every major airline and charter operator made a huge stink about it. I believe the regs were then updated to allow only limited non-US registered planes AND non-US certified operators to operate within the US with very very very specific guidelines. Icelandair would NOT fit the bill as seats would be held out to the public. I haven't spoken to anyone at Ravn/NPA in a while, but my suspicion is going to be that the 757s will be used for domestic US flying (and charters), while another operator will do the international flying out of ANC. That still requires the marketing carrier to have the proper certifications and authorities, however. Ravn/NPA can't piggy back off another operator's regulatory approvals unless that airline is the one holding out to the public.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 624
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:41 am

Was it even proven that Iceland air can operate flights in the US? I find it hard to believe. Imagine if some new carrier spun up between LA and NY and chartered Emirates[/quote]

I thought Icelandair was awarded some MIA-HAV flying over last winter. Anyone know more about that?
 
MO11
Posts: 2133
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:03 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
Was it even proven that Iceland air can operate flights in the US? I find it hard to believe. Imagine if some new carrier spun up between LA and NY and chartered Emirates

I thought Icelandair was awarded some MIA-HAV flying over last winter. Anyone know more about that?


That's Fifth Freedom. An airline from country "C" operating a flight between country "A" and country "B". Just like Smartwings operating Vacation Express flghts in the winter from the US to the Caribbean.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 520
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:29 pm

TexasAirCorp wrote:
Just watched the Q&A session... oh my lord. The parts that really stood out for me were:
-The fact that the first minute was spent talking about investing in Ravn and not NP
-The numerous occasions where the status of NP and Ravn seemed to change, at one point 'they're essentially the same company', then 'NP is a division of Ravn', then 'they're separate companies', then 'Ravn will be renamed NP'
-The fact that only parts of the PowerPoint had been updated to reflect that the Icelandair wet lease is now not happening
-When the Chairman:
---didn't know what ETOPS was
---stated he 'didn't think it was fair to only offer investment potential to qualified investors' (???)
-When McKinney:
---wasn't able to answer questions about Icelandair finances and described them as 'really profitable on their own'
---dodged a question on the longevity of his 752s
---stated the company will have low competitive risk because 'it's Alaska!'
---stated he 'doesn't want to compete with Alaska' then stated Ravn plans to compete with them to Kodiak

Some actual facts that were revealed:
---757s will be in 184 pax, two-class config
---First routes will be:
------US: Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Orlando, San Francisco (no airports stated, safe to assume Las Vegas will be LAS)
------Asia: Nagoya, Osaka, Seoul (ICN), Tokyo (NRT)
------DFW 'on the list for the future'
-Ticket sales potentially open in August
-Ravn's new B1900s will be used to transport baggage for full Dash 8 flights (basically, operating a separate flight just for luggage).

Maybe reading a bit too far into this, but I was also very interested in the fact that the Chairman only answered a few questions about basic facts regarding investment, seemed to demonstrate zero knowledge about NP, and his knowledge about Ravn and the whole fundraising campaign seemed to conflict McKinney? I know the guy has no aviation background and seems purely there as a cash cow, however I really got the feeling that McKinney's been, let's say 'stretching the truth', to him so he keeps pumping cash in. The fact he had to ask what ETOPS was suggests he either has no idea regarding the reasoning for wet leasing, or there's really something else going on behind the scenes and McKinney's spinning some story to keep investors interested.

Also, regarding the initial Icelandair wet lease plan, does anyone know what exactly's happened to that? The slides shown on the video still have 'FI Wet Lease' on, however I now notice the slides on the website have the FI bit removed.

This is disturbing to hear… I hope the FAA watched/listened to this also
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 824
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:44 pm

MO11 wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
Was it even proven that Iceland air can operate flights in the US? I find it hard to believe. Imagine if some new carrier spun up between LA and NY and chartered Emirates

I thought Icelandair was awarded some MIA-HAV flying over last winter. Anyone know more about that?


That's Fifth Freedom. An airline from country "C" operating a flight between country "A" and country "B". Just like Smartwings operating Vacation Express flghts in the winter from the US to the Caribbean.


What you just described is 7th freedom, not 5th freedom.

Fifth freedom is when an airline based in country A flies from country A to country B and onwards to country C with the right to carry passengers between countries B and C (as well as between countries A and B, and between countries A and C). In that case, a 5th freedom flight would be KEF-MIA-HAV.
 
DDR
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:08 pm

If this thing ever did get off the ground, what’s to stop AA, DL, etc. coming in with $99 fares to drive them out of business within their first 6 months? Of course they would require connections, but everyone loves the cheapest fare. I also don’t understand the logic of MCO as one of their first cities. ANC-MCO eats up a lot of aircraft time. How many frames would this route need for even two round trips a day?
 
Cardude2
Posts: 761
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:50 pm

DDR wrote:
If this thing ever did get off the ground, what’s to stop AA, DL, etc. coming in with $99 fares to drive them out of business within their first 6 months? Of course they would require connections, but everyone loves the cheapest fare. I also don’t understand the logic of MCO as one of their first cities. ANC-MCO eats up a lot of aircraft time. How many frames would this route need for even two round trips a day?


my assumption is its a 1 daily flight (1 aircraft is subjected to it)
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6278
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:08 pm

DDR wrote:
If this thing ever did get off the ground, what’s to stop AA, DL, etc. coming in with $99 fares to drive them out of business within their first 6 months? Of course they would require connections, but everyone loves the cheapest fare. I also don’t understand the logic of MCO as one of their first cities. ANC-MCO eats up a lot of aircraft time. How many frames would this route need for even two round trips a day?

I’d more like at zipair who is doing nonstop LCC flights across the pacific already
 
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NameOmitted
Posts: 1141
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:59 pm

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:53 pm

For what it's worth, I live in the Anchorage area and received a postcard in the mail inviting me to become an owner of Northern Pacific Airways.

It was addressed to "Current Resident."
 
ytib
Posts: 783
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:22 am

Re: Northern Pacific Airways discussion thread

Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:23 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
For what it's worth, I live in the Anchorage area and received a postcard in the mail inviting me to become an owner of Northern Pacific Airways.

It was addressed to "Current Resident."


Interesting they are taking this approach.

This is the EDDM service offered by the post office where you can specify by carrier route who would receive the postcard or any other sent mail. It is possible to select based on various demographic variables as age, family size and income for the targeted area.

https://www.usps.com/business/every-doo ... t-mail.htm
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