32andBelow wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

The North American ones. It would be weird to skip places like Seattle and Portland when they already have high O and D to Alaska

they're not bad routes but Alaska currently flies them and I think there ultimate goal is to get a codeshare

They have zero chance of a codeshare since Alaska
Joined one world.

They need to figure out a codeshare on the Asian side

32andBelow wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

Here’s some more details in an interview https://youtu.be/qCCoM0YjVbU

Looks like they will be operating out of the ‘north terminal’ at ANC which there currently renovating. Also Icelandair sent their president of sales marketing to the event.

Interesting that an FI big wig was there for that. Are they looking at flying to the new terminal or perhaps an investment and/or codeshare in the new airline?

They’re defiantly looking to use the north terminal. They already started working on it. Part of the reason people have doubts or concerns is that they are using taxpayer money to remodel that terminal for them

TWA772LR wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

they're not bad routes but Alaska currently flies them and I think there ultimate goal is to get a codeshare

They have zero chance of a codeshare since Alaska
Joined one world.

They need to figure out a codeshare on the Asian side

Throwing this out there, UA needs to reduce it's reliance on Asia for a while, so having this new outfit be a partner to funnel some traffic will help reduce that reliance. On the Asian end, the Korean and Japanese LCCs (Skymark may work, unaligned carrier that doesn't have a 28 inch pitch). Delta is also an option but UA is much more reliant on TPAC than them.

QXorVX wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

They have zero chance of a codeshare since Alaska
Joined one world.

They need to figure out a codeshare on the Asian side

Throwing this out there, UA needs to reduce it's reliance on Asia for a while, so having this new outfit be a partner to funnel some traffic will help reduce that reliance. On the Asian end, the Korean and Japanese LCCs (Skymark may work, unaligned carrier that doesn't have a 28 inch pitch). Delta is also an option but UA is much more reliant on TPAC than them.

this guy thinks he’s just gonna like assume all the ravn partnerships (which are worse than they used to be) on to NP

Is there any precedent of a brand new airline with an unproven model (and safety record) partnering with a major airline?

Flying non-ETOPS B757s to Asia is legal but questionable. I don’t think I would want pax with my ticket numbers on those planes until they have some experience and operational success. The value add for any airline to join NP right now is slim to nothing. Best to back and watch.

QXorVX wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

They have zero chance of a codeshare since Alaska
Joined one world.

They need to figure out a codeshare on the Asian side

Throwing this out there, UA needs to reduce it's reliance on Asia for a while, so having this new outfit be a partner to funnel some traffic will help reduce that reliance. On the Asian end, the Korean and Japanese LCCs (Skymark may work, unaligned carrier that doesn't have a 28 inch pitch). Delta is also an option but UA is much more reliant on TPAC than them.

Is there any precedent of a brand new airline with an unproven model (and safety record) partnering with a major airline?

Flying non-ETOPS B757s to Asia is legal but questionable. I don’t think I would want pax with my ticket numbers on those planes until they have some experience and operational success. The value add for any airline to join NP right now is slim to nothing. Best to back and watch.

TWA772LR wrote:

QXorVX wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

Throwing this out there, UA needs to reduce it's reliance on Asia for a while, so having this new outfit be a partner to funnel some traffic will help reduce that reliance. On the Asian end, the Korean and Japanese LCCs (Skymark may work, unaligned carrier that doesn't have a 28 inch pitch). Delta is also an option but UA is much more reliant on TPAC than them.

Is there any precedent of a brand new airline with an unproven model (and safety record) partnering with a major airline?

Flying non-ETOPS B757s to Asia is legal but questionable. I don’t think I would want pax with my ticket numbers on those planes until they have some experience and operational success. The value add for any airline to join NP right now is slim to nothing. Best to back and watch.

It wouldn't happen in the medium term but if TPAC is down for a while it could happen in the medium term. UA can send the lowest yielding pax on them while filling their planes with higher yield pax and more cargo.

32andBelow wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

QXorVX wrote:

Is there any precedent of a brand new airline with an unproven model (and safety record) partnering with a major airline?

Flying non-ETOPS B757s to Asia is legal but questionable. I don’t think I would want pax with my ticket numbers on those planes until they have some experience and operational success. The value add for any airline to join NP right now is slim to nothing. Best to back and watch.

It wouldn't happen in the medium term but if TPAC is down for a while it could happen in the medium term. UA can send the lowest yielding pax on them while filling their planes with higher yield pax and more cargo.

United barely even flies to anchorage in the winter

QXorVX wrote:

Flying non-ETOPS B757s to Asia is legal but questionable. I don’t think I would want pax with my ticket numbers on those planes until they have some experience and operational success. The value add for any airline to join NP right now is slim to nothing. Best to back and watch.

TWA772LR wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

Here’s some more details in an interview https://youtu.be/qCCoM0YjVbU

Looks like they will be operating out of the ‘north terminal’ at ANC which there currently renovating. Also Icelandair sent their president of sales marketing to the event.

Interesting that an FI big wig was there for that. Are they looking at flying to the new terminal or perhaps an investment and/or codeshare in the new airline?

32andBelow wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

The North American ones. It would be weird to skip places like Seattle and Portland when they already have high O and D to Alaska

they're not bad routes but Alaska currently flies them and I think there ultimate goal is to get a codeshare

They have zero chance of a codeshare since Alaska
Joined one world.

They need to figure out a codeshare on the Asian side

c933103 wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

Here’s some more details in an interview https://youtu.be/qCCoM0YjVbU

Looks like they will be operating out of the ‘north terminal’ at ANC which there currently renovating. Also Icelandair sent their president of sales marketing to the event.

Interesting that an FI big wig was there for that. Are they looking at flying to the new terminal or perhaps an investment and/or codeshare in the new airline?

32andBelow wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

they're not bad routes but Alaska currently flies them and I think there ultimate goal is to get a codeshare

They have zero chance of a codeshare since Alaska
Joined one world.

They need to figure out a codeshare on the Asian side

Asian LCCs aren't going to have the plane to fly to ANC in short to mid term.

32andBelow wrote:

I mean so they can connect in Tokyo or Seoul

c933103 wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

Here’s some more details in an interview https://youtu.be/qCCoM0YjVbU

Looks like they will be operating out of the ‘north terminal’ at ANC which there currently renovating. Also Icelandair sent their president of sales marketing to the event.

Interesting that an FI big wig was there for that. Are they looking at flying to the new terminal or perhaps an investment and/or codeshare in the new airline?

32andBelow wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

they're not bad routes but Alaska currently flies them and I think there ultimate goal is to get a codeshare

They have zero chance of a codeshare since Alaska
Joined one world.

They need to figure out a codeshare on the Asian side

Asian LCCs aren't going to have the plane to fly to ANC in short to mid term.

Cardude2 wrote:

So the YouTube or we’ve been talking about has posted another video (2nd part to the first) going off on why Northern Pacific isn’t a scam. https://youtu.be/wGH1hxlc8fc

Cardude2 wrote:

So the YouTube or we’ve been talking about has posted another video (2nd part to the first) going off on why Northern Pacific isn’t a scam. https://youtu.be/wGH1hxlc8fc

It has secured two B757-200s that were previously in American Airlines’ fleet, its chief executive Rob McKinney told Airline Weekly, and is in talks to acquire six ex-United Airlines B757s and three formerly operated by Icelandair. Bloomberg News claimed that the airline was “using an Icelandair subsidiary, Loftleidir Icelandic, to operate three 757s for its initial Asia service.”

However, Árni Hermannsson, CEO of charter carrier Loftleidir, told the Icelandic financial newspaper Viðskiptablaðið that although the two companies had been in talks there had been no agreements nor a declaration of intent.

Cardude2 wrote:

that would require buying ravn and having a domestic network in Alaska, which they don't want.

jikei wrote:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/112503-uss-northern-pacific-adds-b757s-touts-stopover-model

It has secured two B757-200s that were previously in American Airlines’ fleet, its chief executive Rob McKinney told Airline Weekly, and is in talks to acquire six ex-United Airlines B757s and three formerly operated by Icelandair. Bloomberg News claimed that the airline was “using an Icelandair subsidiary, Loftleidir Icelandic, to operate three 757s for its initial Asia service.”

However, Árni Hermannsson, CEO of charter carrier Loftleidir, told the Icelandic financial newspaper Viðskiptablaðið that although the two companies had been in talks there had been no agreements nor a declaration of intent.

More in article... says they plan to start operations Q3 or Q4 2022. depending on DOT approvals.. and they need 11 frames due to age, spares, etc.

Cardude2 wrote:

also this

"Despite travel restrictions still in place across northern Asia, Northern Pacific Airways aims to initially connect Tokyo Narita, Nagoya Chubu, Osaka Kansai, and Seoul Incheon with leisure traffic via Anchorage to New York Newark, Los Angeles Int'l, Las Vegas Harry Reid, Orlando Int'l, and San Francisco, CA, McKinney told Airline Weekly."
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... over-model

jikei wrote:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/112503-uss-northern-pacific-adds-b757s-touts-stopover-model

It has secured two B757-200s that were previously in American Airlines’ fleet, its chief executive Rob McKinney told Airline Weekly, and is in talks to acquire six ex-United Airlines B757s and three formerly operated by Icelandair. Bloomberg News claimed that the airline was “using an Icelandair subsidiary, Loftleidir Icelandic, to operate three 757s for its initial Asia service.”

However, Árni Hermannsson, CEO of charter carrier Loftleidir, told the Icelandic financial newspaper Viðskiptablaðið that although the two companies had been in talks there had been no agreements nor a declaration of intent.

More in article... says they plan to start operations Q3 or Q4 2022. depending on DOT approvals.. and they need 11 frames due to age, spares, etc.

Wneast wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

also this

"Despite travel restrictions still in place across northern Asia, Northern Pacific Airways aims to initially connect Tokyo Narita, Nagoya Chubu, Osaka Kansai, and Seoul Incheon with leisure traffic via Anchorage to New York Newark, Los Angeles Int'l, Las Vegas Harry Reid, Orlando Int'l, and San Francisco, CA, McKinney told Airline Weekly."
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... over-model

I thought they said ONT though so are they going to use LAX

EA CO AS wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

that would require buying ravn and having a domestic network in Alaska, which they don't want.

Have you looked at the AS intra-AK mainline network? They serve places with mainline equipment where the population is so low that if they were in the L48, other airlines wouldn’t even consider putting CPA turboprops in! Of course AS doesn’t want to fly AS/QX equipment to truly tiny places like EEK, UNK, and so on, but they don’t need to, and if 7H is gone other small lift providers will step into the void to serve those markets connecting to/from AS in places like OME, BET, OTZ, YAK, and of course FAI or ANC.

Sorry, but I’m having a really hard time seeing the business case to justify Northern Pacific, but who knows? Maybe they’ll surprise everyone.

I sincerely doubt it, but you never know…

UA444 wrote:

EA CO AS wrote:

Cardude2 wrote:

that would require buying ravn and having a domestic network in Alaska, which they don't want.

Have you looked at the AS intra-AK mainline network? They serve places with mainline equipment where the population is so low that if they were in the L48, other airlines wouldn’t even consider putting CPA turboprops in! Of course AS doesn’t want to fly AS/QX equipment to truly tiny places like EEK, UNK, and so on, but they don’t need to, and if 7H is gone other small lift providers will step into the void to serve those markets connecting to/from AS in places like OME, BET, OTZ, YAK, and of course FAI or ANC.

Sorry, but I’m having a really hard time seeing the business case to justify Northern Pacific, but who knows? Maybe they’ll surprise everyone.

I sincerely doubt it, but you never know…

Several of the 757s UA retired are ETOPS and late 1990s birds. Still have lots of life.

BangersAndMash wrote:

jikei wrote:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/112503-uss-northern-pacific-adds-b757s-touts-stopover-model

It has secured two B757-200s that were previously in American Airlines’ fleet, its chief executive Rob McKinney told Airline Weekly, and is in talks to acquire six ex-United Airlines B757s and three formerly operated by Icelandair. Bloomberg News claimed that the airline was “using an Icelandair subsidiary, Loftleidir Icelandic, to operate three 757s for its initial Asia service.”

However, Árni Hermannsson, CEO of charter carrier Loftleidir, told the Icelandic financial newspaper Viðskiptablaðið that although the two companies had been in talks there had been no agreements nor a declaration of intent.

More in article... says they plan to start operations Q3 or Q4 2022. depending on DOT approvals.. and they need 11 frames due to age, spares, etc.

So just in time for winter, when pax numbers fall off a cliff. Genious!!!

32andBelow wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

jikei wrote:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/112503-uss-northern-pacific-adds-b757s-touts-stopover-model



More in article... says they plan to start operations Q3 or Q4 2022. depending on DOT approvals.. and they need 11 frames due to age, spares, etc.

So just in time for winter, when pax numbers fall off a cliff. Genious!!!

I highly doubt they’ll get their 757 cert and etops and everything else by then. For an airline their side you can add a year to any certification of this magnitude. Summer 23 is probably more likely.

Unless they start as a virtual airline. And we’ve seen how that’s gone for everyone whose tried it recently.

Also I’ve heard RAVN is losing pilots very quickly. So I don’t know how they are going to juggle hiring for both in this environment.

Also Alaska is 100% not going to play ball with them so idk why he’s avoiding Seattle and Portland.

flyoregon wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

So just in time for winter, when pax numbers fall off a cliff. Genious!!!

I highly doubt they’ll get their 757 cert and etops and everything else by then. For an airline their side you can add a year to any certification of this magnitude. Summer 23 is probably more likely.

Unless they start as a virtual airline. And we’ve seen how that’s gone for everyone whose tried it recently.

Also I’ve heard RAVN is losing pilots very quickly. So I don’t know how they are going to juggle hiring for both in this environment.

Also Alaska is 100% not going to play ball with them so idk why he’s avoiding Seattle and Portland.

Because he’s living in a cartoon world using the Field of Dreams mantra as motivation. Just because you slap a modern paint scheme on an old tired 757 doesn’t mean you’re playing the game wisely. It means you spent some money in preparation to spend even more money as planes break, flights are cancelled, and customers are pissed off. It sounds nice to say “we’re looking at ________ airplane for future growth” and “we’ve identified X amount of markets we could serve,” but until you actually do it, it’s all just a fairy tale.

32andBelow wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

I highly doubt they’ll get their 757 cert and etops and everything else by then. For an airline their side you can add a year to any certification of this magnitude. Summer 23 is probably more likely.

Unless they start as a virtual airline. And we’ve seen how that’s gone for everyone whose tried it recently.

Also I’ve heard RAVN is losing pilots very quickly. So I don’t know how they are going to juggle hiring for both in this environment.

Also Alaska is 100% not going to play ball with them so idk why he’s avoiding Seattle and Portland.

Because he’s living in a cartoon world using the Field of Dreams mantra as motivation. Just because you slap a modern paint scheme on an old tired 757 doesn’t mean you’re playing the game wisely. It means you spent some money in preparation to spend even more money as planes break, flights are cancelled, and customers are pissed off. It sounds nice to say “we’re looking at ________ airplane for future growth” and “we’ve identified X amount of markets we could serve,” but until you actually do it, it’s all just a fairy tale.

But at least he’s building an iMax theatre in the north terminal

c933103 wrote:

Asian LCCs aren't going to have the plane to fly to ANC in short to mid term.

crosscheckyyz wrote:

c933103 wrote:

Asian LCCs aren't going to have the plane to fly to ANC in short to mid term.

Didnt Tway receive their 330(s), and Zip Air has been flying 787-8?

BangersAndMash wrote:

jikei wrote:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/112503-uss-northern-pacific-adds-b757s-touts-stopover-model

It has secured two B757-200s that were previously in American Airlines’ fleet, its chief executive Rob McKinney told Airline Weekly, and is in talks to acquire six ex-United Airlines B757s and three formerly operated by Icelandair. Bloomberg News claimed that the airline was “using an Icelandair subsidiary, Loftleidir Icelandic, to operate three 757s for its initial Asia service.”

However, Árni Hermannsson, CEO of charter carrier Loftleidir, told the Icelandic financial newspaper Viðskiptablaðið that although the two companies had been in talks there had been no agreements nor a declaration of intent.

More in article... says they plan to start operations Q3 or Q4 2022. depending on DOT approvals.. and they need 11 frames due to age, spares, etc.

So just in time for winter, when pax numbers fall off a cliff. Genious!!!

32andBelow wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

I highly doubt they’ll get their 757 cert and etops and everything else by then. For an airline their side you can add a year to any certification of this magnitude. Summer 23 is probably more likely.

Unless they start as a virtual airline. And we’ve seen how that’s gone for everyone whose tried it recently.

Also I’ve heard RAVN is losing pilots very quickly. So I don’t know how they are going to juggle hiring for both in this environment.

Also Alaska is 100% not going to play ball with them so idk why he’s avoiding Seattle and Portland.

Because he’s living in a cartoon world using the Field of Dreams mantra as motivation. Just because you slap a modern paint scheme on an old tired 757 doesn’t mean you’re playing the game wisely. It means you spent some money in preparation to spend even more money as planes break, flights are cancelled, and customers are pissed off. It sounds nice to say “we’re looking at ________ airplane for future growth” and “we’ve identified X amount of markets we could serve,” but until you actually do it, it’s all just a fairy tale.

But at least he’s building an iMax theatre in the north terminal

c933103 wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

jikei wrote:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/112503-uss-northern-pacific-adds-b757s-touts-stopover-model



More in article... says they plan to start operations Q3 or Q4 2022. depending on DOT approvals.. and they need 11 frames due to age, spares, etc.

So just in time for winter, when pax numbers fall off a cliff. Genious!!!

Alaska is popular among Asian tourist as winter destination, and there are charter plane every years, but problem would be quarantine of those countries for their returning citizens

32andBelow wrote:

c933103 wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

So just in time for winter, when pax numbers fall off a cliff. Genious!!!

Alaska is popular among Asian tourist as winter destination, and there are charter plane every years, but problem would be quarantine of those countries for their returning citizens

I don’t think there’s been a JAL charter since a year or more before Covid. Plus those charters were like 5 times a year. Not daily or 4x a week or whatever NP is doing

32andBelow wrote:

c933103 wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

So just in time for winter, when pax numbers fall off a cliff. Genious!!!

Alaska is popular among Asian tourist as winter destination, and there are charter plane every years, but problem would be quarantine of those countries for their returning citizens

I don’t think there’s been a JAL charter since a year or more before Covid. Plus those charters were like 5 times a year. Not daily or 4x a week or whatever NP is doing

c933103 wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

c933103 wrote:

Alaska is popular among Asian tourist as winter destination, and there are charter plane every years, but problem would be quarantine of those countries for their returning citizens

I don’t think there’s been a JAL charter since a year or more before Covid. Plus those charters were like 5 times a year. Not daily or 4x a week or whatever NP is doing

https://toyokeizai.net/articles/-/395325?page=2
Media report claim those Alaskan resorts were all taken up by Chinese instead of Japanese amid the non operation of JAL charter.
(Also, quick search indicates JAL did Alaskan charter in September in year 2019, instead of traditional winter season. But, direct charter tour package are still available on Japanese tour site, likely operated by other carriers)
(If I recalled correctly, few years ago these charter were more than weekly frequency from various Japanese airports to Alaska?)

32andBelow wrote:

c933103 wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

I don’t think there’s been a JAL charter since a year or more before Covid. Plus those charters were like 5 times a year. Not daily or 4x a week or whatever NP is doing

https://toyokeizai.net/articles/-/395325?page=2
Media report claim those Alaskan resorts were all taken up by Chinese instead of Japanese amid the non operation of JAL charter.
(Also, quick search indicates JAL did Alaskan charter in September in year 2019, instead of traditional winter season. But, direct charter tour package are still available on Japanese tour site, likely operated by other carriers)
(If I recalled correctly, few years ago these charter were more than weekly frequency from various Japanese airports to Alaska?)

There was some weird deplomacy between former governor walker and the China. Then China said they were going to start a flight from harbin city. That year a bunch of Chinese started coming. But I don’t know it that will return

c933103 wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

c933103 wrote:

https://toyokeizai.net/articles/-/395325?page=2
Media report claim those Alaskan resorts were all taken up by Chinese instead of Japanese amid the non operation of JAL charter.
(Also, quick search indicates JAL did Alaskan charter in September in year 2019, instead of traditional winter season. But, direct charter tour package are still available on Japanese tour site, likely operated by other carriers)
(If I recalled correctly, few years ago these charter were more than weekly frequency from various Japanese airports to Alaska?)

There was some weird deplomacy between former governor walker and the China. Then China said they were going to start a flight from harbin city. That year a bunch of Chinese started coming. But I don’t know it that will return

Tons of Asian fly to places like Finnland and Iceland for Aurora and glacier, despite Alska being physically closer, the flying time is longer due to out of way connection. And price tag is also no less expensive, even on direct charter.
But when it come down to specific mid-sized cities in China, especially those smaller cities in the Northeast China/Manchuria area, their economy and their population are both not growing like coastal Chinese cities, and are somewhat similar to American rust belt cities situation.


Also another thing people may not remember is that, before the pandemic, the air service right between China and the US on tier 1 city was basically fullly utilized already, and while US carriers largely ignored secondary cities, the quota available in total for tier 2 destinations are only 28 flights per week in total per country.

roadrunner165 wrote:

I wonder if Northern Pacific will offer a similar rewards program.

roadrunner165 wrote:

You can read the article on the Anchorage Daily News site but Ravn Alaska intends to create a cryptocurrency for its mileage rewards program. Not that I had much respect for this outfit and their business model in the first place, but this continues to get more bizarre as time goes on. I wonder if Northern Pacific will offer a similar rewards program.

BangersAndMash wrote:

And you realise that if against all odds this succeeds, we're gonna look really, really, really dumb

EA CO AS wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

And you realise that if against all odds this succeeds, we're gonna look really, really, really dumb

No, just shocked. Every informed, educated opinion from the most informed minds I know in aviation says this is a disaster waiting to happen, but every so often, you get shocked.

So, we'll see!

c933103 wrote:

Airlines overfly over Russia is still allowed for now, but if situation continue to worsen, then Anchorage could revert back to its role being Northeast Asia to Europe connection point.

UPlog wrote:

c933103 wrote:

Airlines overfly over Russia is still allowed for now, but if situation continue to worsen, then Anchorage could revert back to its role being Northeast Asia to Europe connection point.

It was not a connection point. It was a refueling stop.