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OA260
Posts: 25749
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:44 am

A request to designate Shannon Airport as Ireland’s Electric Airport has been issued to the Government and the Department of Transport.

It follows a motion by Cllr Johnny Flynn (FG) before Clare County Council which was passed by elected representatives on Monday.

He stated, “In order to assist Ireland achieve climate action targets in reducing emissions from aviation that Clare County Council request the Government, its related Government Departments, and Shannon Group plan for designation and development of Shannon Airport as Ireland’s Electric Airport using green electricity to power green aviation initially short haul and long haul in the future with battery improvement”.

www.clareecho.ie/govt-requested-to-make ... c-airport/

This could be an interesting project for SNN and rolled out to other airports .
 
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ClassicLover
Posts: 5304
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:53 am

EIBPI wrote:
DUB-KIR 06:45-07:40 FR6677 D (at 11:00 on Saturday and Sunday)
KIR-DUB 08:05-09:00 FR6678 D (at 12:20 on Saturday and Sunday)

DUB-KIR 18:00-18:55 FR6691 D (at 19:00 on Saturday and Sunday)
KIR-DUB 19:20-20:15 FR6692 D (at 20:20 on Saturday and Sunday)[/u]


Heading from Dublin to Kerry gets you there in good time for a business day, with an 07:40 arrival. Presumably anyone then has to drive where they need to go, so they should be in an office or something by 9am or 9:30am. The return getting into Dublin at 9am means you'll be in town by 10am which also allows for a full day of work. The 9am arrival also allows connections to many transatlantic flights.

Ditto with the 6pm departure from Dublin, it makes for a reasonable business day in Dublin before heading to the airport. I think the double daily schedule is very good actually.

I'm glad it's a middle of the day flight throughout August... mainly because I have decided to give it a whirl. I'm getting the 7am train from Heuston, gets me into Farranfore at 10:41, then I'm taking Ryanair back to Dublin at 13:25, landing at 14:20. All for the bumper price of €44.98 all in and not a PCR test in sight! :)
 
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AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2347
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:58 am

EIBPI wrote:
I looked at FR’s schedule from September when they plan to go twice daily. It seems substantially less useful than what was in place before.

DUB-KIR 06:45-07:40 FR6677 D (at 11:00 on Saturday and Sunday)
DUB-KIR 18:00-18:55 FR6691 D (at 19:00 on Saturday and Sunday)


I would be surprised if the 06:45 gets more than a handful of passengers. The weekday 18:00 is also a bit early, with people needing to leave Dublin city centre at 16:00 or so. The weekday lunchtime flight at 12:40 during Stobart times, which was useful for a lot of connecting/self connecting passengers (from Europe but also the US) is clearly missing. I am not sure how many of those will be willing to wait for 18:00 or will instead take the 13:00 or 15:00 trains (arr. Killarney at 16:19 or 18:19)

KIR-DUB 08:05-09:00 FR6678 D (at 12:20 on Saturday and Sunday)
KIR-DUB 19:20-20:15 FR6692 D (at 20:20 on Saturday and Sunday)

A 09:00 arrival is not perfect, with the earliest one realistically expect to be in the city centre being 10:00. The first train from Killarney (06:37) gets people to Heuston at 09:31. For an 08:05 flight, one would most likely also be leaving Killarney around 06:40. I doubt we will see more than a handful of passengers on the 19:20 flight. The previously popular lunchtime flight is missing.

I would be surprised to see the operation last for more than a few weeks before the drama starts. There is also the VAT to be absorbed on domestic flights (23%!), which is not an issue for the rest of Ryanair’s operation.

Stobart’s schedule

DUB-KIR 12:40-13:40 EI3204 D (some days it operated at 12:10 instead)
DUB-KIR 18:50-19:55 EI3208 D

KIR-DUB 07:30-08:30 EI3201 D (departed at 09:00 on Sunday)
KIR-DUB 14:05-15:10 EI3205 D (some days it operated at 13:40 instead)

You’re right there. A lot of people (myself included) seemed to utilise the EI connections to the US with baggage interlining which is now gone also. The lack of a lunchtime departure from DUB which was well timed for the late transatlantic arrivals will probably deter a lot of passengers now. Still though, the upside is (as alluded to by ClassicLover) the fares on DUB-KIR are a lot better now. The EI fare for a return trip was never less than €90 in recent times.
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:22 am

ClassicLover wrote:
EIBPI wrote:
DUB-KIR 06:45-07:40 FR6677 D (at 11:00 on Saturday and Sunday)
KIR-DUB 08:05-09:00 FR6678 D (at 12:20 on Saturday and Sunday)

DUB-KIR 18:00-18:55 FR6691 D (at 19:00 on Saturday and Sunday)
KIR-DUB 19:20-20:15 FR6692 D (at 20:20 on Saturday and Sunday)[/u]


Heading from Dublin to Kerry gets you there in good time for a business day, with an 07:40 arrival. Presumably anyone then has to drive where they need to go, so they should be in an office or something by 9am or 9:30am. The return getting into Dublin at 9am means you'll be in town by 10am which also allows for a full day of work. The 9am arrival also allows connections to many transatlantic flights.

Ditto with the 6pm departure from Dublin, it makes for a reasonable business day in Dublin before heading to the airport. I think the double daily schedule is very good actually


The market for day business trips from Dublin to Kerry is pretty much non existent, which is why it was never covered by PSO requirements.

In the more traditional KIR-DUB direction, I wouldn’t call 10am to 4pm a normal business day. Any conference will start earlier and/or end later.

It’s the latest DUB arrival and earlier DUB departure the route will have had. In the 1990s and early 2000s, the morning KIR feature was even at 06:30 and the evening DUB departure at 22:10/30. The Aer Lingus Commuter Bae 146s saw decent loads with often 60-70+ passengers. Of course, in those days, the first train got you to Houston at 11:15 and the last train to Tralee left at 18:00/30. Driving was also 5-6 hours rather than the 3.5 hours you can do it in today.

Once you add a normal piece of hand luggage, Ryanair is not much cheaper than the previous Stobart fares.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:44 am

EIBPI wrote:
In the more traditional KIR-DUB direction, I wouldn’t call 10am to 4pm a normal business day. Any conference will start earlier and/or end later.

It’s the latest DUB arrival and earlier DUB departure the route will have had. In the 1990s and early 2000s, the morning KIR feature was even at 06:30 and the evening DUB departure at 22:10/30. The Aer Lingus Commuter Bae 146s saw decent loads with often 60-70+ passengers. Of course, in those days, the first train got you to Houston at 11:15 and the last train to Tralee left at 18:00/30. Driving was also 5-6 hours rather than the 3.5 hours you can do it in today.

Once you add a normal piece of hand luggage, Ryanair is not much cheaper than the previous Stobart fares.


Sure, a conference will start earlier and end later, and in that case you'd get the late Ryanair flight up and overnight for your conference starting the next day. Or get the early flight and miss the start, which would have been the same under the previous regime, so I don't see your point.

With regards to "normal business day", what I meant is that it gives you plenty of hours to do business, attend meetings and so on if you require face to face interaction in Dublin. It does not restrict a person to a two hour slot in the middle of the day, there are quite a few more hours to play with.

Clearly the 1990s are long gone and several other things (faster trains, more trains) have impacted the services. Flying is not as attractive... all they need now is faster rail services and they can drop the domestic route altogether.

Regardless, the lead in fares are good and hopefully people start to use the service. As with anything, it's a case of use it or lose it.
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:06 pm

Is it though a case of use it or loose it? I have assumed the two PSO routes were politically motivated and as it is unlikely the two routes will ever be commercially viable, they will continue ad-finitum. I also never understood the stobart/EI fares. For heavily subsidised routes the fares, sometimes, were very high!

Not sure I understand the FR motivation either. There has to be a sting in the tail!
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:08 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
Sure, a conference will start earlier and end later, and in that case you'd get the late Ryanair flight up and overnight for your conference starting the next day. Or get the early flight and miss the start, which would have been the same under the previous regime, so I don't see your point.

With regards to "normal business day", what I meant is that it gives you plenty of hours to do business, attend meetings and so on if you require face to face interaction in Dublin. It does not restrict a person to a two hour slot in the middle of the day, there are quite a few more hours to play with.

Clearly the 1990s are long gone and several other things (faster trains, more trains) have impacted the services. Flying is not as attractive... all they need now is faster rail services and they can drop the domestic route altogether.

Regardless, the lead in fares are good and hopefully people start to use the service. As with anything, it's a case of use it or lose it.


I wonder how many times you have used the DUB-KIR route?

More than a case of use it or lose it, it is about offering a service that is useful to the target market. There’s a good three decades of experience but Ryanair is fully ignoring that (including it’s own earlier attempts). I would say they have designed a service to fail just to go and be able to go blame someone weeks/months after launch. That’s a waste of time for everyone.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:14 pm

EIBPI wrote:
I would say they have designed a service to fail just to go and be able to go blame someone weeks/months after launch. That’s a waste of time for everyone.


Well in the meantime it still maintains a link for those that need / want it. I fully expect this to go back to a PSO route operated by Emerald under EIR come Winter after FR has exited. Only time will tell.
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:22 pm

Kerry Airport has described as premature and inaccurate Ryanair's claim that it will begin operating the Dublin-Kerry air route, previously run by Stobart Air, from 28 July.

In a statement John Mulhern, CEO Kerry Airport said there has been no formal discussion yet with the airport.

"The Airport has received no notification in any form from Ryanair and thus the airline’s statement of yesterday, Wednesday 14 July, is both premature and inaccurate," he said.

"Kerry Airport has not been informed of the details relating to any such schedule and, at present, cannot confirm or otherwise whether these flights will in fact operate."

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0 ... lin-route/
______

KIR know its better to run a PSO service than a Ryanair service!
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:30 pm

You couldn’t even make it up.

What was the letter form Ryanair to the minister shared on Twitter last week where Ryanair claimed the airline had already come to an agreement with Kerry airport?

Relations between the airport and its biggest (and currently only) airline customer must be pretty bad these days if it has reached the point of having to issue such a statement.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:26 pm

Fliplot wrote:
Is it though a case of use it or loose it? I have assumed the two PSO routes were politically motivated and as it is unlikely the two routes will ever be commercially viable, they will continue ad-finitum. I also never understood the stobart/EI fares. For heavily subsidised routes the fares, sometimes, were very high!


The whole point of PSO routes is to develop routes with potential to become commercially self-sustaining. That's why they exist, they are not supposed to be PSO routes forever. It's so people can get used to them use them more so eventually the subsidy gets withdrawn and off you go operating them normally.

EIBPI wrote:
More than a case of use it or lose it, it is about offering a service that is useful to the target market. There’s a good three decades of experience but Ryanair is fully ignoring that (including it’s own earlier attempts). I would say they have designed a service to fail just to go and be able to go blame someone weeks/months after launch. That’s a waste of time for everyone.


Sure, but three decades of experience is meaningless in the grand scheme of things, as you pointed out yourself before. When external factors such as train frequency and timings change, the whole route viability changes. More people will choose the train in one or both directions, which means the 1990s load factors and timings are irrelevant today. Same thing with the current pivot to video conferencing for work and indeed conferences. I was at a conference last month for the day and all sessions were online and it worked a treat. That will also eat at the demand for people to come up to Dublin for an event. So while you do need to look at the past, the current needs are more important to consider.

OA260 wrote:
Well in the meantime it still maintains a link for those that need / want it. I fully expect this to go back to a PSO route operated by Emerald under EIR come Winter after FR has exited. Only time will tell.


Same, I'd be surprised to see it continue with Ryanair. I'm curious as to who will be blamed this time... one of the airports for not lowering charges, the Government for not zeroing the VAT... place your bets!

JAmie2k9 wrote:
Kerry Airport has described as premature and inaccurate Ryanair's claim that it will begin operating the Dublin-Kerry air route, previously run by Stobart Air, from 28 July.

In a statement John Mulhern, CEO Kerry Airport said there has been no formal discussion yet with the airport.

"The Airport has received no notification in any form from Ryanair and thus the airline’s statement of yesterday, Wednesday 14 July, is both premature and inaccurate," he said.

"Kerry Airport has not been informed of the details relating to any such schedule and, at present, cannot confirm or otherwise whether these flights will in fact operate."

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0 ... lin-route/
______

KIR know its better to run a PSO service than a Ryanair service!


I can hardly see Kerry Airport turning around and saying, "No thanks Ryanair, we don't want the flights", so someone just has their nose out of joint that they weren't consulted.

Pretty funny though - you would expect one of the first ports of call would be to discuss it with the station you plan to serve! Oh Ryanair, you always keep it interesting. Good PR for the route though, and that might be the whole point of all of this. The free press around all this means that everyone knows the flights are happening... which saves Ryanair having to spend a cent on advertising. It has to be deliberate, doesn't it? :)
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:35 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
Fliplot wrote:
Is it though a case of use it or loose it? I have assumed the two PSO routes were politically motivated and as it is unlikely the two routes will ever be commercially viable, they will continue ad-finitum. I also never understood the stobart/EI fares. For heavily subsidised routes the fares, sometimes, were very high!


The whole point of PSO routes is to develop routes with potential to become commercially self-sustaining. That's why they exist, they are not supposed to be PSO routes forever. It's so people can get used to them use them more so eventually the subsidy gets withdrawn and off you go operating them normally


No, a PSO has nothing to do with allowing a route to eventually become commercially viable but rather about serving thin routes to peripheral regions with otherwise poor transport links.

Rather than one day becoming commercially viable, PSO
routes are instead likely to cease either because of airport closure or because of new land transport infrastructure.
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:42 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
l
I can hardly see Kerry Airport turning around and saying, "No thanks Ryanair, we don't want the flights", so someone just has their nose out of joint that they weren't consulted.


I’d rather say that Kerry airport is a pretty important stakeholder in this and as the infrastructure provider would probably appreciate being consulted and given formal notification of the intention to provide a new service.

The truth is probably that Kerry airport has seen it all before and knows the service will last a few months at the very most.

It’s great to have an airline jump in, but it just delays the inevitable and we are quite likely to see the route once again without service for a few months after Ryanair drops it because of airport charges / COVID restrictions / the latest excuse of the day.

I’m a big fan of Ryanair but this game playing with the government and dependent regional airports (with incomes, jobs and livelihoods at stake) is certainly the less desirable part of the company.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:01 pm

EIBPI wrote:
No, a PSO has nothing to do with allowing a route to eventually become commercially viable but rather about serving thin routes to peripheral regions with otherwise poor transport links.

Rather than one day becoming commercially viable, PSO routes are instead likely to cease either because of airport closure or because of new land transport infrastructure.


Sorry, but you're incorrect on this one I'm afraid.

The purpose is to connect hard to reach areas, economically deprived areas and those with bad transport links to help to make them more economically attractive. Certain businesses will locate to areas where there are air links available, more businesses means more people living there and all of that leads to growth. The point is to keep the PSO until this growth moves to a level where the routes become self-sustaining. I am not saying all routes will have this happen, however that is the theory and what is ideally desired.

EIBPI wrote:
I’d rather say that Kerry airport is a pretty important stakeholder in this and as the infrastructure provider would probably appreciate being consulted and given formal notification of the intention to provide a new service.

I’m a big fan of Ryanair but this game playing with the government and dependent regional airports (with incomes, jobs and livelihoods at stake) is certainly the less desirable part of the company.


Absolutely agree with you on that!
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:04 pm

Swedish airline, Amapola Flyg, seems to be selling the Donegal PSO route on their website.

https://www.amapola.nu/

Looks to be twice daily from 26 July with a Fokker 50!
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:16 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
Swedish airline, Amapola Flyg, seems to be selling the Donegal PSO route on their website.

https://www.amapola.nu/

Looks to be twice daily from 26 July with a Fokker 50!


Nice find!!!

If that's the case I'm so doing this as I've never been on a Fokker 50 and really would like to give it a go!
 
Clydenairways
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:21 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
Swedish airline, Amapola Flyg, seems to be selling the Donegal PSO route on their website.

https://www.amapola.nu/

Looks to be twice daily from 26 July with a Fokker 50!


Never expected that.

Also it seems DL15 FRA-ATL has turned around over the Atlantic and diverting to DUB.
 
tonystan
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:41 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
Swedish airline, Amapola Flyg, seems to be selling the Donegal PSO route on their website.

https://www.amapola.nu/

Looks to be twice daily from 26 July with a Fokker 50!


Wow…thats out of the blue. Fares are questionable however. And they’ll need to update that website a little. But at least its a positive move.
 
Clydenairways
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:49 pm

EIBPI wrote:
ClassicLover wrote:
l
I can hardly see Kerry Airport turning around and saying, "No thanks Ryanair, we don't want the flights", so someone just has their nose out of joint that they weren't consulted.


I’d rather say that Kerry airport is a pretty important stakeholder in this and as the infrastructure provider would probably appreciate being consulted and given formal notification of the intention to provide a new service.

The truth is probably that Kerry airport has seen it all before and knows the service will last a few months at the very most.

It’s great to have an airline jump in, but it just delays the inevitable and we are quite likely to see the route once again without service for a few months after Ryanair drops it because of airport charges / COVID restrictions / the latest excuse of the day.

I’m a big fan of Ryanair but this game playing with the government and dependent regional airports (with incomes, jobs and livelihoods at stake) is certainly the less desirable part of the company.


This will end up being a PSO by a different means anyway, a little bit like the regional support Ryanair used to get for flying into remote airports all over Europe, ie someone else has to subsidize the service Ryanair don't want to pay for, then it's still a subsidy.

Why can't Ryanair operate it as a PSO now? Because they can dictate the terms this way. Pretend its a viable commercial route but its pending a deal on airport charges on each end. Someone is going to have to make up the difference.
As far as i can remember one of the requirements of the PSO is to pay the standard rates for airport and handling fees and i would not be surprised if Kerry relied on that revenue to keep the airport going and even possibly cross subsidize handling Ryanair's other flights to London and Hahn.

The taxpayer will eventually pick up the tab anyway, but this way Ryanair can play the media to pretend otherwise. And unlike a PSO the taxpayer has no control now over terms such as schedule ,timings, cancellations. etc.

It should be a PSO IMO.
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:54 pm

ClassicLover wrote:

Sorry, but you're incorrect on this one I'm afraid.

The purpose is to connect hard to reach areas, economically deprived areas and those with bad transport links to help to make them more economically attractive. Certain businesses will locate to areas where there are air links available, more businesses means more people living there and all of that leads to growth. The point is to keep the PSO until this growth moves to a level where the routes become self-sustaining.


You describe the PSO as some kind of route incubator until the route can sustain itself. I’m sorry but that is fully inconsistent with what is described in the EU Air Services Regulation 1008/2008 governing Public Service Obligation routes.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Le ... 020:en:PDF

PSO routes are described as existing to support thin critical routes and/or routes to peripheral regions, which would otherwise not be viable.

ClassicLover wrote:
I am not saying all routes will have this happen, however that is the theory and what is ideally


I am not aware of a single route in the Irish context that has moved from PSO to self sustaining.

You might be confusing PSO with airport/regional subsidies, which (where are allowed) exist to support the establishment of new routes.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:19 pm

EIBPI wrote:
PSO routes are described as existing to support thin critical routes and/or routes to peripheral regions, which would otherwise not be viable.


Of course you're correct here, that is what a PSO route is as described in legislation.

EIBPI wrote:
I am not aware of a single route in the Irish context that has moved from PSO to self sustaining.


Nor am I, because there isn't one. However, as I have said previously, the end goal of a PSO route is for it to become commercially sustainable over time and for the subsidy to end at that time.

EIBPI wrote:
You might be confusing PSO with airport/regional subsidies, which (where are allowed) exist to support the establishment of new routes.


Since I have a Master's degree in Air Transport Management, I would find it difficult to confuse a PSO with airport/regional subsidies :)
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:56 pm

ClassicLover wrote:

Nor am I, because there isn't one. However, as I have said previously, the end goal of a PSO route is for it to become commercially sustainable over time and for the subsidy to end at that time.


Once again, can you provide some evidence about this supposed end goal.

What you say makes no sense if (i) the purpose you claim PSO routes have is not described anywhere in the Regulation underpinning their existence and (ii) there isn't a single PSO route that has moved to the self sustaining mode you describe.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:14 pm

Its officially announced now :

Flights between Dublin and Donegal to resume on 26 July

Flights between Dublin and Donegal are to resume on July 26, after the Government awarded a Public Service Obligation contract for the operation of the route to Swedish airline Amapola Flyg AB.

www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0715/1235 ... air-route/


They are certainly an interesting set up and one Im sure many enthusiasts will want to tick off the list.

There is an interesting video on them here :


https://youtu.be/swjVhRGIOus
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:28 pm

And an interesting article on Amapola here:
https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/amap ... 0-airline/

I imagine they might need to do some marketing.

Great to see the Fokker 50 back in the Irish skies. Aer Lingus retired their Fokker 50s more than 20 years ago in April 2001 (!).
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:54 pm

OA260 wrote:
They are certainly an interesting set up and one Im sure many enthusiasts will want to tick off the list.

There is an interesting video on them here :

https://youtu.be/swjVhRGIOus


Very exciting news. Great video too! There's also another one from the flight deck by the same people here.

https://youtu.be/L97LbpXXeI8

EIBPI wrote:
And an interesting article on Amapola here:
https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/amap ... 0-airline/

I imagine they might need to do some marketing.

Great to see the Fokker 50 back in the Irish skies. Aer Lingus retired their Fokker 50s more than 20 years ago in April 2001 (!).


It's a fantastic opportunity to get on board a real piece of history. According to Airfleets, they were manufactured from 1987 to 1992 so 29-34 years old.

I'm certainly going to be doing this as I've never been on a Fokker 50.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:27 pm

Ha ha…
I have just 6 flights logged in a F50, and have never once flown with Amapola Flyg.
However, all but 1 frame is now part of the Amapola Fleet. Very strange.
 
tonystan
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:56 am

Hi all. Just wondering if someone may have the official word on arrivals from the UK after the 19JUL? Iv tried to figure out if they are on the EU Emergency Break list but cant find anything online. The gov.ie website is not at all clear nor is the citizens advice one.

Thanks for your help.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:19 am

Dublin Airport’s new model for airport charges meets airline opposition
Airport trying to reduce regulatory scrutiny, airlines say

Airlines, including Aer Lingus and Ryanair, as well as the main representative body of Irish pilots, have opposed calls by Dublin Airport for a new regulatory model to be introduced to determine the level of airport charges.

www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-a ... -1.4621663


Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
 
goldcrest
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:54 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:01 am

tonystan wrote:
Hi all. Just wondering if someone may have the official word on arrivals from the UK after the 19JUL? Iv tried to figure out if they are on the EU Emergency Break list but cant find anything online. The gov.ie website is not at all clear nor is the citizens advice one.

Thanks for your help.


Hi tonystan,

I am hoping to travel this week also, and best/most concise info I could find in on the Aer Lingus page.Cant find anywhere detailing the "Emergency Brake" situation.
Passengers arriving into Ireland from outside EU/EEA

From 19 July, Ireland will also broadly align itself to the EU approach to non-essential travel into the EU from third countries. This includes passengers arriving from the UK and the USA.

An 'Emergency Brake' mechanism will be coordinated at EU level to react swiftly to the emergence of a variant of concern or variant of interest.


Arriving from a country that the EU has NOT applied an 'Emergency Brake'?

If you have valid proof of vaccination, no travel-related testing or quarantine will be necessary.

If you do not have valid proof of vaccination, you will need to:

present evidence of a negative RT-PCR test result within 72 hours prior to arrival into the country
undergo self-quarantine
undergo post-arrival testing (this will be provided through the HSE)


Arriving from a country that the EU has applied an 'Emergency Brake'?

If you have valid proof of vaccination, you will need to:

produce a negative result from a RT-PCR test taken no more than 72 hours before arrival
undergo self-quarantine
undergo post-arrival testing (this will be provided through the HSE)

If you do not have valid proof of vaccination, you will need to:

produce evidence of a negative result from a RT-PCR test undertaken no more than 72 hours before arrival
undergo mandatory hotel quarantine
undergo post-arrival testing.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 3150
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:47 am

goldcrest wrote:
Arriving from a country that the EU has NOT applied an 'Emergency Brake'?

If you have valid proof of vaccination, no travel-related testing or quarantine will be necessary.

If you do not have valid proof of vaccination, you will need to:

present evidence of a negative RT-PCR test result within 72 hours prior to arrival into the country
undergo self-quarantine
undergo post-arrival testing (this will be provided through the HSE).


It's very unclear at the moment. There are just vague statements from the minister for transport on a radio show on the 7th of July, that things would be "much easier" from the 19th of July. This is supposed to be in place from Monday, as it stands now a PCR is still required. Thats what the dfa website says, that was TIMATIC will say and I don't think "Minister Ryan said I'd be grand on the radio last week" is going to cut it at the boarding gate.
I have seen a few comments online that suggest people think the DCC releases them from any testing requirement. I don't think that is quite the case? I think national governments can add additional testing (PCR or Antigen) and quarentine requirements in addition to the DCC, as they see fit, outside the larger emergency brake mechanism.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politic ... -1.4614090

The English government treat all CTA arrivals as one category. There are no testing and no quarantine requirements, I think Scotland is the same for arrivals from RoI, but I'm not 100% sure on that.
 
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OA260
Posts: 25749
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:06 pm

Ireland is opening up to fully vaccinated British travellers from Monday.

The relaxation of Covid travel restrictions will coincide with ‘Freedom Day’ in the UK.

Tourism Ireland said there will be no need for double jabbed travellers to quarantine in either direction.

It will be the first European country to enable such access due to the Common Travel Area.

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/ire ... travellers
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2182
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:51 pm

AA/EI wing incident this morning.

The wing of an American Airlines aircraft has tipped an Aer Lingus long-haul A330 jet at Dublin Airport as the US plane was being pushed back from its terminal stand this morning to prepare for takeoff, the Irish Independent has learned.

https://www.independent.ie/business/iri ... 60069.html
 
kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 10104
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:59 pm

Yes, I saw that. Wouldn't like to be in the shoes of that pushback crew! Damage doesn't seem to be that bad, but of course, when you're talking about aircraft worth $200m apiece, not to mention the effects at altitude and lost revenue, then costs can mount up.

I can't help wondering how easy it is to carry out repairs to a 787 compared to an A330 (where presumably it's just a matter of replacing a winglet?)

Pax from PHL flight (which was a very new 787, N873BB) were transferred to the ORD flight, only 120 pax between the two.
 
Vicenza
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:21 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:40 pm

OA260 wrote:
Dublin Airport’s new model for airport charges meets airline opposition
Airport trying to reduce regulatory scrutiny, airlines say

Airlines, including Aer Lingus and Ryanair, as well as the main representative body of Irish pilots, have opposed calls by Dublin Airport for a new regulatory model to be introduced to determine the level of airport charges.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/tran ... -1.4621663


Will be interesting to see how this plays out.


I'm curious though how any such 'action' has anything to do with the representative body of Irish pilots. Airlines yes, but I see no connection with any body representing pilots.
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 5304
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:06 pm

OA260 wrote:
Ireland is opening up to fully vaccinated British travellers from Monday.

The relaxation of Covid travel restrictions will coincide with ‘Freedom Day’ in the UK.

Tourism Ireland said there will be no need for double jabbed travellers to quarantine in either direction.

It will be the first European country to enable such access due to the Common Travel Area.

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/ire ... travellers


This is all well and good - we've been able to go to the UK with no testing or quarantine for ages - the issue has been the other direction, with PCR test and 14 days quarantine. Happy days on this news... but is a PCR test 72 hours before travel to Ireland still going to be required? I guess we have to wait and see.
 
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IrishTexan
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:24 am

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:38 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
AA/EI wing incident this morning.

The wing of an American Airlines aircraft has tipped an Aer Lingus long-haul A330 jet at Dublin Airport as the US plane was being pushed back from its terminal stand this morning to prepare for takeoff, the Irish Independent has learned.

https://www.independent.ie/business/iri ... 60069.html

N873BB involved is AA's newest 787 and was only delivered April 29 this year. It's one of only 4 AA787's with the new business class with all forward facing seats similar to the 777 fleet. AA209 to ORD today is operated by N872AN which happens to be the next newest 787 in the fleet (delivered Oct.20).
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2182
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:54 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Ireland is opening up to fully vaccinated British travellers from Monday.

The relaxation of Covid travel restrictions will coincide with ‘Freedom Day’ in the UK.

Tourism Ireland said there will be no need for double jabbed travellers to quarantine in either direction.

It will be the first European country to enable such access due to the Common Travel Area.

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/ire ... travellers


This is all well and good - we've been able to go to the UK with no testing or quarantine for ages - the issue has been the other direction, with PCR test and 14 days quarantine. Happy days on this news... but is a PCR test 72 hours before travel to Ireland still going to be required? I guess we have to wait and see.


No PCR (or any restrictions) needed for fully vaccinated arrivals. You do need one if not. I don't know why the advise isnt updated yet because they have issues the advise out.
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2182
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:23 pm

IrishTexan wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
AA/EI wing incident this morning.

The wing of an American Airlines aircraft has tipped an Aer Lingus long-haul A330 jet at Dublin Airport as the US plane was being pushed back from its terminal stand this morning to prepare for takeoff, the Irish Independent has learned.

https://www.independent.ie/business/iri ... 60069.html

N873BB involved is AA's newest 787 and was only delivered April 29 this year. It's one of only 4 AA787's with the new business class with all forward facing seats similar to the 777 fleet. AA209 to ORD today is operated by N872AN which happens to be the next newest 787 in the fleet (delivered Oct.20).


Photo for anyone interested.

https://mobile.twitter.com/darraghfar/s ... 4538296322
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25749
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:25 pm

More clarity this evening :


Quarantine for vaccinated arrivals from Britain to end on 19 July

People travelling from Britain to Ireland will no longer need to self-isolate on arrival here from Monday, 19 July if they are fully vaccinated, the Irish Embassy in London has said.

The requirement for them to undergo a PCR test 72 hours before departure will also end.

"Fully vaccinated travellers from Great Britain to Ireland will not need a pre-departure PCR test or to quarantine at home on arrival," the embassy confirmed on Twitter.

"You will need proof of being fully vaccinated. NHS Covid Pass, vaccination status letter or paper vaccine card will all be accepted."

www.rte.ie/news/2021/0716/1235623-irela ... in-travel/
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 5304
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:38 pm

OA260 wrote:
The requirement for them to undergo a PCR test 72 hours before departure will also end.

"Fully vaccinated travellers from Great Britain to Ireland will not need a pre-departure PCR test or to quarantine at home on arrival," the embassy confirmed on Twitter.

"You will need proof of being fully vaccinated. NHS Covid Pass, vaccination status letter or paper vaccine card will all be accepted."


Hooray! About time! I'll be curious to see how the flights all start panning out now.

For what it's worth, I think the EI lounge in Dublin is open, as a friend's husband checked in there this afternoon on his way back to the UK.
 
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IrishTexan
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:24 am

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:44 am

Just read the following notice on runway development at DUB.

Advance Notice - Testing and Flight Calibration of North Runway Lighting System at Dublin Airport

We want to advise our neighbouring communities and liaison groups about forthcoming activities on and around the North Runway site as part of the installation of the Airfield Ground Lighting.
A flight calibration of the airfield ground lighting will be undertaken between 7pm and 2am on Tuesday, 20th July, weather permitting. The check needs to take place at this time in order to verify all of the runway and approach lighting system’s alignment and brilliance settings.
The flights will involve a small twin-engine aircraft taking off and landing using the existing operational runways, not North Runway. It will then make several approaches to both east and west ends of the North Runway site at no lower than a height of 100 feet, and then undertake approximately 14 passes of the runway (seven each side) at c. 100 feet. Should conditions be unsuitable on 20th July, then an alternative date of 21st July has been scheduled for this activity.
Please also note that North Runway’s ground lighting system will be active for prolonged periods for c. seven days leading up to the flight check on 20th July.
There will be further flight checks during later phases, and we will again provide you with advance notification.
Please note that these flights are for testing and calibration purposes only and will not involve taking off or landing on the North Runway site.
If you have any queries or need clarification regarding above, please contact us at [email protected].
Kind regards,
North Runway Team.
 
User avatar
Phen
Posts: 322
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:05 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:48 am

Very interesting to see them at this advanced stage with the new runway. I believe it is still not planned for introduction to operations until next year however. From the air you can see the runway markings are painted and it has a displaced threshold at both ends. Not sure why this is required at the 10L end, as its mostly rural countryside along the extended centreline of the runway in that direction and there are no terrain issues.

The ATIS information for DUB has recently had a warning about testing of the lights on 28R to warn crew so as not to attempt a landing on 28R thinking they were approaching 28L.
 
TUGMASTER
Posts: 1485
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:56 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:52 am

Re : AA787/EI330 incident.
AA pushback procedures dictate that a wingwalker is present on both wings at all times during the push. Clearly someone wasn’t where they were supposed to be or if he was, the pushback driver ignored the stop signals. Anyway, nobody hurt which is the main thing with ramp accidents.
 
Galwayman
Posts: 1061
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:20 am

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:03 am

Fliplot wrote:
Nice to see SU beck on Ssturday evenings. Hooefully the schedule will return to normal soon.
Also quite strange to see three flights to Moldova in the space of 4 hours tonight/tomorrow. Is there really that much demand?


Those flights are possibly being used by people travelling onwards to Ukraine, Moscow , Romania- the onward fares to Russia from example are really competive (compared to SU) and also July is mass summer migration time home to Greater Romania, lots of young families will be heading there over the next few weeks

Plus Dublin offers superb times for aircraft utilisation for all Moldovan airlines . Most of those flights are red eyes.
 
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OA260
Posts: 25749
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:23 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
OA260 wrote:
The requirement for them to undergo a PCR test 72 hours before departure will also end.

"Fully vaccinated travellers from Great Britain to Ireland will not need a pre-departure PCR test or to quarantine at home on arrival," the embassy confirmed on Twitter.

"You will need proof of being fully vaccinated. NHS Covid Pass, vaccination status letter or paper vaccine card will all be accepted."


Hooray! About time! I'll be curious to see how the flights all start panning out now.

For what it's worth, I think the EI lounge in Dublin is open, as a friend's husband checked in there this afternoon on his way back to the UK.


Still closed as of today :


Image


Fast Track was also closed up too . In fairness it didn't take too long to clear as airport still a ghost town and 80% of places closed.
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 5304
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:02 pm

OA260 wrote:
Still closed as of today :

Fast Track was also closed up too . In fairness it didn't take too long to clear as airport still a ghost town and 80% of places closed.


Ahh, a phantom check-in! I'll have to have words to my friend's husband about that!

Appreciate the update. Can't imagine it wouldn't take too long to get through security... when I last went through in December - and last August for that matter - it was straight through at every stage.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25749
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:55 am

Good luck to those heading away today hopefully the airport will have a bit of a buzz to it too and more shops and restaurants will open .


Thousands of Irish holidaymakers flock to Dublin Airport as international travel finally returns

www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/thou ... 563503.amp
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2182
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:14 pm

The new SNN route is FR to LPA. Certainly not really a new route but it may have not operated regularly in a while.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25749
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:46 am

Frustration as thousands of passengers left without travel certs and call centre overwhelmed with queries

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fr ... 70500.html



Young girl who claimed she was scalded by hot chocolate settles with Aer Lingus

http://www.irishexaminer.com/news/court ... l?type=amp


I always wondered how this case would go seems they settled at 20K .
 
PerthBoy1987
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:59 am

Re: Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin

Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:25 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
Swedish airline, Amapola Flyg, seems to be selling the Donegal PSO route on their website.

https://www.amapola.nu/

Looks to be twice daily from 26 July with a Fokker 50!


Because F50s (Fokker 50) are old aircraft. Are they sort of out of place or look weird/strange in terms of the while aviation spectrum? Mind you though there are old Dash 8s flying around but people never seem surprised to see a Dash 8 but with an F50 they do.

F50s are old aircraft but they are still comparable and competitive against other 46 to 58 seater aircraft in the world.
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