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RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:58 am

pune wrote:
They have been having capital flows issues and this has been for a long time, even before the pandemic. IIRC, there's only once or twice they got operational profit.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 894066.cms

This will go the jet/kingfisher way sadly :( At least seems so, Spicejet has been in wrong news for years now, somehow still sticking around :(

I was under the impression they are well connected to current sitting government, that should help them to stay in business in some way. Or have I got it wrong? They are doing a lot of cargo flight now, aren't they racking in money. Who will replace them for 192 B737MAX order? Perhaps a bridging loan from Boeing will help.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 525
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:37 pm

Finally my dream came true of seeing a 777-300 Land at my Homebase (LKO) though it did not touch down but the flyby was closw enough for me to spot the giant beast make history for my city !!

It was nonen other than the IAF one 777-300 ( VT-ALW) which seem to be on a regular fly by excercises on various routes lik DEL-MAA-CCU-DEL and Im just glad they chose LKO today !

Best day of my life...very emotional but super happy !

I cant wait to see regular 777 or 789 operations out of my homebase soon...Thankfully 788s Air India already has a LKO-DXB--LKO-DEL going on and Ocassional Saudia 333...So I hope SV changes their 333s to 777s for my base.

#BestDayOfMyLife
 
hohd
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:32 pm

https://ihaviationandtravel.com/2021/03 ... k-details/

Air India which was flying once a week HYD to LHR and back till Sep 6th, 2021 has now increased the frequency to twice a week, starting from Sep 10th.

The flight will run on Fridays and Mondays from HYD and Thursdays and Sundays from LHR. This appears to be a continuation of the bubble flight.

Source: Air India
 
sabby
Posts: 478
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:40 pm

Do we have any data on Air India's revenue and profit in the last few quarters and the comparison to the years before ? The continous international travel restriction based on frequency seems to have tailor made for decreasing foreign competition to create artifical demand for AI.
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 494
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:36 pm

https://www.secretflying.com/posts/air- ... ess-class/

Meanwhile on Air India flight AI111 from DEL to LHR... :spit:
 
pune
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:11 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
pune wrote:
They have been having capital flows issues and this has been for a long time, even before the pandemic. IIRC, there's only once or twice they got operational profit.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 894066.cms

This will go the jet/kingfisher way sadly :( At least seems so, Spicejet has been in wrong news for years now, somehow still sticking around :(

I was under the impression they are well connected to current sitting government, that should help them to stay in business in some way. Or have I got it wrong? They are doing a lot of cargo flight now, aren't they racking in money. Who will replace them for 192 B737MAX order? Perhaps a bridging loan from Boeing will help.


Boeing itself has cash flow issues so doubt they will do anything. For e.g. see -

https://www.fool.com/investing/2021/08/ ... at-boeing/

https://www.postandcourier.com/business ... 53036.html

https://www.ft.com/content/f5bedb66-51a ... b452acc357?

All the above tell their own story. The pandemic is also not helping, nor the travel bubbles and restrictions. As far as GOI is concerned, its purse is empty due to its own doings.

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/mo ... 837103.ece

Banks nor NBFC's are going touch any airlines even with a barge pole. Everybody knows what happened with Kingfisher, Air Deccan and so many airlines/dead bodies its just harder ot know.

When we have the highest taxes on air travel then what else do we expect ???
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 525
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:06 am

Finally the very first 777-300ER ( AIR INDIA ONE aka IAF 1 777-337{ER} ) Visited my homebase LKO on 7th September,2021.

It was indeed an Emotional moment for me being the very first and only plane spotter from my city to have spotted this majestic beauty though it didnt touch down but flew by enroute HYD where it flew by again enroute DEL,However,just the very first fly by of a 777 means the world to me ! I could literally see how Huge it was...Just loved it !

I hope when New T3 is done and Intl ops are shifted to T2 we get to see frequent 777 visits apart from the regular widebodies like 787s and 333s.

The Spotting Video is already out !
 
hohd
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:59 pm

pune wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
pune wrote:

Banks nor NBFC's are going touch any airlines even with a barge pole. Everybody knows what happened with Kingfisher, Air Deccan and so many airlines/dead bodies its just harder ot know.



If Banks are not going to touch any airline, then how will Jet Airways 2.0 start. They will definitely need some financing from banks and from other investment companies. They cannot hope to get anything from capital markets (IPO route) unless they are established and operational for at least 6 months.
 
pune
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:50 pm

hohd wrote:
pune wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:


If Banks are not going to touch any airline, then how will Jet Airways 2.0 start. They will definitely need some financing from banks and from other investment companies. They cannot hope to get anything from capital markets (IPO route) unless they are established and operational for at least 6 months.


Good question but no answers, and anyways don't think they have 'any assets' which they could put up for collateral. An outside chance is NBFC's but those also have severely burned their fingers in infrastructure before.

In other news, 13 airports up for sale/privatization/monetization whatever you wanna call it. How expensive air travel is gonna happen we will know in the future. Airways was never affordable for most Indians and with this even less number would be able to travel :(

https://yourstocknews.com/index.php/202 ... -airports/

In anticipation many of the said airports have already hiked their parking charges and whatnot, what they used to charge for 24 hrs., they now charge more than that for an hr.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 525
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:33 am

Today on 9/11/21 The first ever 777 touched down at my homebase LKO...it happened to be a diversion from DEL of Turkish 777F which was flying from HAN to DEL

Flight Info -:
AIRCRAFT 777F
REG TC -LJS
ORIGIN HANOI
DEST DELHI
DIVERSION LUCKNOW
FLIGHT NO TK6571

Finally a 777 has Touched down and is parked at my homebase with 2 IndiGo 321 Neos and 3 A320 Neos 1 Air India express 738 plus a Zoom air CRJ 200

There is more parking bay to accomodate another 777 or 747 or another widebody and I wish the SV 333 that is scheduled to arrive in the evening would land just now so I could get a great shot of SV 333 and Turkish 777 next to each other !!


I cant wait for the day when I see a 777 as a regular at my homebase...Im sure once Intl operations are shifted to T2 More 787s and 777s will be coming to my homebase.
 
pune
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:05 pm

Seems GOI is in desperation to sell Air India as it has no money -

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ne ... 406145.ece

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/mo ... 837103.ece - From few months back.

There is also comedy in this as Spicejet is going to make an offer while his own airlines has been in deep red for past several years -

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 419996.ece

The above will probably be what is known in popular lingo as dummy application. The story doing the rounds informally is that there is a possibility that Tata may get it, although with Vistara they haven't done much till date :(

Will have to wait and watch how things unfold unless Adani walks in and then gets its tailor-made for his requirements. This is speculation on my part. You never know :(
 
hohd
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:40 pm

pune wrote:
Seems GOI is in desperation to sell Air India as it has no money -

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ne ... 406145.ece

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/mo ... 837103.ece - From few months back.

There is also comedy in this as Spicejet is going to make an offer while his own airlines has been in deep red for past several years -

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 419996.ece

The above will probably be what is known in popular lingo as dummy application. The story doing the rounds informally is that there is a possibility that Tata may get it, although with Vistara they haven't done much till date :(

Will have to wait and watch how things unfold unless Adani walks in and then gets its tailor-made for his requirements. This is speculation on my part. You never know :(


If Adani wants the airline and succeeds in outbidding Tata, then so be it. This is a good opportunity for GOI to offload AI. Spicejet is just a sideshow in this bidding for AI. GOI should not give in to Spicejet when the airline is struggling itself and might need a bailout.
 
avier
Posts: 1308
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:24 pm

Airport operators cannot own airlines in India. It has been mentioned here many times before but some still come up with this idea or rather assumption.
Laws won't be changed for this either, no matter how cozy the big conglomerates are to the govt in power.
If it were to happen, it already would have and TATA's would already have been owning half the major airports in the country, considering they have the most interest in aviation amongst all Indian conglomerates. It would also have worked well for the growth and benefit of their two existing airlines they own, that need more precious slots and infrastructure at the big airports in the country.
 
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Viman
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:30 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:57 pm

GMR's plans for Nagpur airport after they won a court case against Maharashtra's Maha Aghadi Government:

1. The GMR Group on Friday said that it hopes to develop Nagpur's Babasaheb Ambedkar International Airport in phases to eventually reach a capacity of 30 million passengers annually.

2. "The first phase of development will see GMR initiate a complete transformation of the Nagpur Airport over a four-year period, including the construction of a new Greenfield integrated terminal with initial capacity of handling four million passengers per annum, associated aeronautical infrastructure including aprons and taxiways, new car park and approach road and a new cargo terminal,"

3. "At the same time, the existing passenger terminal will also be refurbished to enhance its capacity, improve passenger facilities, introduce modern technology and upgrade the overall ambiance to cater to the traffic and operational requirements in the interim period," it added.

4. Over the longer term, GMR will invest further in the Nagpur Airport project including the expansion of terminal handling capacity, development of a second runway and a new Air Traffic Control Tower (ATC) to boost capacity to levels that could potentially serve the needs for the next 2-3 decades of growth at the city, it stated.

5. Nagpur is also well placed to be developed into a major cargo hub, it said, adding that leveraging the city''s strategic geographic location, strong multi-modal connectivity with major economic centres across the country and supportive government and policy environment.

For Nagpur Airport, beginning with an initial capacity of 20,000 MT annually, GMR will pursue a cargo development vision modelled on its own experience at Delhi and Hyderabad as well as that of major global air cargo hubs such as Memphis, Paris, Hong Kong and Dubai to maximise the city''s growth potential, GMR said.

Sources: https://www.livemint.com/news/india/bom ... 77128.html
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 66661.html
 
pune
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:50 pm

GOI is gonna spend INR 14,500 crore before 'privatizing' them. This is the same as had happened in case of Mumbai Airport as well as Delhi, specifically T3.

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 595_1.html
 
hohd
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:29 pm

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 783322.cms

Not sure if GoI can achieve this but the carriers of UAE, QR and LH may have to accept some cuts on the 6th freedom rights.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 525
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:28 am

Finally my dream came true and I flew the dreamliner 787-8 from my homebase to DEL also got a treat to spot two Dreamliners parked next to each other one which I flew on to Delhi that had come from DXB and one that came from Delhi and flew enroute DXB...Mine was VT-ANE and Other one was VT-ANM !!

It was an amazing bkue skies clear day which made my experience more so special the landing at DEL was amazing due to hazeless view of beautiful city..Just an awesome experience and Cant wait to fly the Dreamliner again !

And eagerly waiting forT3 to get completed so T2 could be used for Intl operations and with that Im sure we will get more regular Dreamliners,330s and 777s operations from my homebase LKO !!
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:03 am

hohd wrote:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/india-looks-to-cut-flying-rights-of-uae-by-a-third/articleshow/85783322.cms

Not sure if GoI can achieve this but the carriers of UAE, QR and LH may have to accept some cuts on the 6th freedom rights.

The aviation ministry is working on a plan to unilaterally reduce foreign flying rights granted to the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Qatar and Germany to curb so-called sixth freedom traffic.


Unilateral means not negotiated, a one sided change. In the case of the UAE, that would bring them back to the prior bilateral, so the UAE would just roll back the bilateral.
This article has more of the rhetoric:
https://www.news18.com/news/opinion/by- ... 82296.html

At a minimum, such a harsh diplomatic action would result in ambassadors being recalled. Bilaterals are many aspects of trade where something is given up for something gained. The other side won't limit their focus to one issue. Oh... messy. Really messy and India will earn the reputation of not honoring their contracts (treaties). I hope the aviation ministry has the authority to impact investment limits, jobs, tourism, visa durations, tariffs, and all the other aspects of the bilateral they are stepping on. This is India saying "We got what we want, we're taking away what you want." Diplomacy is always tit for tat, so there would be an interesting domino effect.

Lightsaber

Late edit:
In 2019 Germany and India signed 17 bilaterals. I don't know what they involved, but I wonder how many Germany will unilaterally change if India starts unilaterally changing bilaterals?
https://businessnewsindex.com/2021/08/1 ... nt-signed/
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:16 am

indiGo Fleet Update Week September 20, 2021

A320ceo Out:
None

A320neo In:
Airbus A320 -251N 10592 VT-IIF IndiGo Airlines delivey 18 September 2021 TLS-DEL ex F-WWDS
Airbus A320 -271N 10876 VT-IID IndiGo Airlines delivery 14 September 2021 TLS-DEL ex F-WWTL

A320ceo fleet: 39 (3 parked) (Total: 58 including several airframes in process of lease return)
A320neo fleet: 129


A321neo In:
Nil

A321neo fleet: 43

ATR-72 In:
ATR 72-600 1600 VT-IXZ IndiGo Airlines delivery 21-23 September 2021 TLS-HER-HRG-DWC-DEL, regd F-WNUB (+ 1623 VT-IRA, regd F-WKVC ex F-WWEP)

ATR-72 fleet : 33
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 30175
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:35 am

pune wrote:
Now if you or I were an investor, why would I do that? The only thing valuable Air India has is the real estate and the slots abroad. Everything else would probably be scrapped, but more importantly who will pay off the massive loans. If it is going to be the private parties, then it will be no-no as it would drag the one who will come.


Bidding for AI completed.
SpiceJet & Tatas have given bids.
Looks like Tata will get AI.
 
subramak1
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:21 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:01 pm

lightsaber wrote:
hohd wrote:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/india-looks-to-cut-flying-rights-of-uae-by-a-third/articleshow/85783322.cms

Not sure if GoI can achieve this but the carriers of UAE, QR and LH may have to accept some cuts on the 6th freedom rights.

The aviation ministry is working on a plan to unilaterally reduce foreign flying rights granted to the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Qatar and Germany to curb so-called sixth freedom traffic.


Unilateral means not negotiated, a one sided change. In the case of the UAE, that would bring them back to the prior bilateral, so the UAE would just roll back the bilateral.
This article has more of the rhetoric:
https://www.news18.com/news/opinion/by- ... 82296.html

At a minimum, such a harsh diplomatic action would result in ambassadors being recalled. Bilaterals are many aspects of trade where something is given up for something gained. The other side won't limit their focus to one issue. Oh... messy. Really messy and India will earn the reputation of not honoring their contracts (treaties). I hope the aviation ministry has the authority to impact investment limits, jobs, tourism, visa durations, tariffs, and all the other aspects of the bilateral they are stepping on. This is India saying "We got what we want, we're taking away what you want." Diplomacy is always tit for tat, so there would be an interesting domino effect.

Lightsaber

Late edit:
In 2019 Germany and India signed 17 bilaterals. I don't know what they involved, but I wonder how many Germany will unilaterally change if India starts unilaterally changing bilaterals?
https://businessnewsindex.com/2021/08/1 ... nt-signed/


I am surprised at Indian bureacrats ability to shoot itself in the foot. It has taken sustain efforts to get UAE to support India and act against terror funding. Indians are employed in a big number in there.

Subramanian
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2780
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:01 am

lightsaber wrote:

Not sure if GoI can achieve this but the carriers of UAE, QR and LH may have to accept some cuts on the 6th freedom rights.
Unilateral means not negotiated, a one sided change. .

[/quote]

You do realize that at one time iNdia imposed "retrospective" taxation? If they could implement a non sensical law like that they are capable of anything.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2780
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:12 am

HAWK21M wrote:
pune wrote:
Now if you or I were an investor, why would I do that? The only thing valuable Air India has is the real estate and the slots abroad. Everything else would probably be scrapped, but more importantly who will pay off the massive loans. If it is going to be the private parties, then it will be no-no as it would drag the one who will come.


Bidding for AI completed.
SpiceJet & Tatas have given bids.
Looks like Tata will get AI.


Isn't the SpiceJet bid to create the appearance of "competitive bidding" as if only Air India bid, and it won the contract, it would create an uproar?
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:15 am

HAWK21M wrote:
pune wrote:
Now if you or I were an investor, why would I do that? The only thing valuable Air India has is the real estate and the slots abroad. Everything else would probably be scrapped, but more importantly who will pay off the massive loans. If it is going to be the private parties, then it will be no-no as it would drag the one who will come.


Bidding for AI completed.
SpiceJet & Tatas have given bids.
Looks like Tata will get AI.

Why do Spicejet even bother with the bid? Aren't they hobbling from one paycheck to another? need to get their house in order first before anything else.
 
CPS001
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:05 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:41 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
HAWK21M wrote:
pune wrote:
Now if you or I were an investor, why would I do that? The only thing valuable Air India has is the real estate and the slots abroad. Everything else would probably be scrapped, but more importantly who will pay off the massive loans. If it is going to be the private parties, then it will be no-no as it would drag the one who will come.


Bidding for AI completed.
SpiceJet & Tatas have given bids.
Looks like Tata will get AI.

Why do Spicejet even bother with the bid? Aren't they hobbling from one paycheck to another? need to get their house in order first before anything else.


I'm pretty sure Ajay Singh is bidding for AI in his personal capacity, SpiceJet the airline isn't. Maybe Ajay Singh is looking for greener pastures from Spice...
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22886
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:23 pm

edealinfo wrote:
lightsaber wrote:

Not sure if GoI can achieve this but the carriers of UAE, QR and LH may have to accept some cuts on the 6th freedom rights.
Unilateral means not negotiated, a one sided change. .



You do realize that at one time iNdia imposed "retrospective" taxation? If they could implement a non sensical law like that they are capable of anything.[/quote]
You misquoted. I was quoting another user and arguing against the policy.
India can impose what they want, they will bear the consequences. Unilateral action is the opposite of diplomacy and will be noticed by all nations signing bilaterals with India if they are violated.

For some reason we're living in a society that hasn't read books by Bernstein and do not understand the massive economic consequences of variable, arbitrary, and even worse, retrospective laws. Overall, unilateral action on air service rights would, long term, just reduce demand.

India needs to set up a hub as economical and convenient as the competition. Heck, I think they could out do them. It is amazing how a little transfer traffic can turn a loss making route profitable (this is the entire EK model) and enable a vastly larger network. As much as some mock the "shopping mall" aspect of today's hub airports, the customer has spoken. Considering the complaints that were made on Dubai crowding, I see an opportunity to create a more competitive hub to beat the ME3, ET, TK, and LH at their own game. Indigo showed the world Indian airlines can be well managed. Now time for a well managed Indian airport with a well managed network airline to grow.

Lightsaber
 
sibibom
Posts: 477
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:04 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:47 pm

hohd wrote:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/india-looks-to-cut-flying-rights-of-uae-by-a-third/articleshow/85783322.cms

Not sure if GoI can achieve this but the carriers of UAE, QR and LH may have to accept some cuts on the 6th freedom rights.


Not gonna happen with UAE, they are far too important of an ally to piss off. However, Etihad being a shadow of its former self, somehow Abu Dhabi may not need all those seats anyways.

Qatar is the easiest to implement diplomatically. However, a favorable pricing of natural gas may help them keep those seats.

Germany is gonna be interesting, they don't have substaintial dispora like say the UK nor is there a big O&D market. Luftansa will lose a lot of connecting traffic. However LH group may manage the connecting traffic(especially to Europe) via Austria, Belgium or Switzerland and focus on connecting North American traffic.
 
hohd
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:32 pm

May it is better for UAE to combine their allotments into one. EK and FlyDubai may actually benefit. Both UAE and Qatar have decent O&D and employ many Indians, so it is not in the best interest of GoI to reduce. But not so with Germany, which has some O&D but most of LH is connecting traffic primarily to US, that is where GoI can renegotiate.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:34 pm

indiGo Fleet Update Week September 25, 2021

A320ceo Out:
Airbus A320-232 4813 VT-IEI IndiGo Airlines ferried 18/24sep21 SAW-DEL-SAW prior rtn to lessor ex D-AXAI

A320neo In:
Airbus A320-251N 10579 VT-IIB IndiGo Airlines delivery 23sep21 TLS-DEL ex F-WWBE

A320ceo fleet: 39 (3 parked) (Total: 58 including several airframes in process of lease return)
A320neo fleet: 130


A321neo In:
Airbus A321-251NX 10699 VT-ILU IndiGo Airlines delivery 22sep21 XFW-DEL ex D-AVXD

A321neo fleet: 44

ATR-72 In:
Nil

ATR-72 fleet : 33

Total Fleet: 246 (including stored frames on lease return)
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2780
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:56 pm

hohd wrote:
May it is better for UAE to combine their allotments into one. .


Yes, this is a face saving approach for both sides.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2780
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:58 pm

sibibom wrote:
hohd wrote:

Germany is gonna be interesting, they don't have substaintial dispora like say the UK nor is there a big O&D market. Luftansa will lose a lot of connecting traffic. .


Then why is Vistara keen to start flights to Germany? With which N. American and European airlines does it code-share with?
 
sibibom
Posts: 477
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:04 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:57 am

edealinfo wrote:
sibibom wrote:
hohd wrote:

Germany is gonna be interesting, they don't have substaintial dispora like say the UK nor is there a big O&D market. Luftansa will lose a lot of connecting traffic. .


Then why is Vistara keen to start flights to Germany? With which N. American and European airlines does it code-share with?


I guess you have yourself answered the question...its a good place to connect owing to his location in Central Europe and lots of airlines that it can partner with. Doesn't show actual demand between India and Germany itself.
 
unnayan
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:57 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:21 pm

edealinfo wrote:
sibibom wrote:
hohd wrote:

Germany is gonna be interesting, they don't have substaintial dispora like say the UK nor is there a big O&D market. Luftansa will lose a lot of connecting traffic. .


Then why is Vistara keen to start flights to Germany? With which N. American and European airlines does it code-share with?


Very difficult to compete with the comprehensive LH network out of India by adding 1-2/week flight out of DEL only. It can feed to UA or LH at FRA in a limited way
 
VTORD
Posts: 773
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:31 pm

unnayan wrote:

Very difficult to compete with the comprehensive LH network out of India by adding 1-2/week flight out of DEL only. It can feed to UA or LH at FRA in a limited way


There are a few possibilities here (subject to slots, schedule etc.,):
1. Feed LH to carry pax from India whether ex-DEL or XXX - DEL, further to Europe - something I suspect currently sits largely in the wheelhouse of ME3
2. Feed UA/LH TATL as a complement to their networks from DEL (as an extension of their UA codeshare)
3. "Maybe" develop BOM / BLR n/w to leverage the same down the line

Could come in handy in the summer when LH/UA could go 2xDaily to some stations from FRA many of which have good business traffic and are home to large pockets of the Indian diaspora.
 
dfwking
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:11 pm

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/india-nonstops-on-the-way-american-airlines-codeshares-with-indigo-for-india-connections/articleshow/86584787.cms

This seems to be big news. Perhaps this can drive more traffic to AA on their JFK-DEL and SEA-BLR flights. Wonder if this will lead to more India-US flights on AA.
 
VTORD
Posts: 773
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:31 pm

dfwking wrote:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/india-nonstops-on-the-way-american-airlines-codeshares-with-indigo-for-india-connections/articleshow/86584787.cms

This seems to be big news. Perhaps this can drive more traffic to AA on their JFK-DEL and SEA-BLR flights. Wonder if this will lead to more India-US flights on AA.


I don't know the SEA-BLR timings but the JFK flight lands around 8:00 PMish. Considering Covid protocols for the foreseeable future, you will most likely clear for transit to domestic by 11:00PM. That means you are looking at about 6 to 8-hour layover for anyone not traveling to BOM, BLR, MAA or CCU on the inbound leg to India. That's a lot. It will work quite well outbound though.

To your second observation/speculation, I don't see how they are expecting to get BOM, BLR pax here to connect via DEL especially being JFK with all the options available to them. So at some point AA has to be looking at connecting them n/s.

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx
 
pune
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:56 am

While there are reports that Tata Sons has won the Air India disinvestment, seems GOI is not happy with the result hence the winner has been put out to hold.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 673468.cms

It's not been even a month since Piyush Goyal had criticized the Tatas.

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/piy ... 80425.html

If they didn't want the Tatas, they could either have blacklisted them or made rules that kept them out. This is just plain embarrasing :(
 
avier
Posts: 1308
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Oct 01, 2021 3:45 pm

pune wrote:
While there are reports that Tata Sons has won the Air India disinvestment, seems GOI is not happy with the result hence the winner has been put out to hold.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 673468.cms

It's not been even a month since Piyush Goyal had criticized the Tatas.

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/piy ... 80425.html

If they didn't want the Tatas, they could either have blacklisted them or made rules that kept them out. This is just plain embarrasing :(

So many unfounded conjectures in your post.

It's well know the govt. wants to hand over Air India to only TATA's, with Ajay Singh just propped up to show an additional bidder in the sale.

Yet you will state quite the opposite with some alternate theory, for whatever reasons only you know.

And Piyush Goyal's opinion don't reflect on the whole govt nor on the Air India sale.

Just wait for a few days till the official announcement, and we'll know who is actually embarassing.
 
pune
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:26 pm

avier wrote:
pune wrote:
While there are reports that Tata Sons has won the Air India disinvestment, seems GOI is not happy with the result hence the winner has been put out to hold.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 673468.cms

It's not been even a month since Piyush Goyal had criticized the Tatas.

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/piy ... 80425.html

If they didn't want the Tatas, they could either have blacklisted them or made rules that kept them out. This is just plain embarrasing :(

So many unfounded conjectures in your post.

It's well know the govt. wants to hand over Air India to only TATA's, with Ajay Singh just propped up to show an additional bidder in the sale.

Yet you will state quite the opposite with some alternate theory, for whatever reasons only you know.

And Piyush Goyal's opinion don't reflect on the whole govt nor on the Air India sale.

Just wait for a few days till the official announcement, and we'll know who is actually embarassing.


If Ajay Singh has so much money on his own why doesn't he fix his own airline first, even his cargo business is in red

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 700841.ece

And not to forget he got Spicejet for only INR Rs. 2/- from the Marans, and we know who was the supporter of the same at that point in time.

https://www.outlookindia.com/website/st ... up-/302043

This is the same airline which in its entire life has only had one quarter of operational profit.
 
pune
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:32 pm

If the Tatas have won fair and square then what is the issue, why the hold out ??? Or does GOI want to renegotiate the terms after it has been won by the Tatas. The whole thing leaves a bitter taste in the mouth :(

Also Anand Rangnathan, a cheerleader close to the Govt. shared the same 24 hrs. ago on social media. Now, when the hold-out there he is blaming all newspapers, social media etc. Of course, whatever he shares on social media is not relevant, even if he comes to shows such as timesnow and whatnot. They can play all sorts of games with public.
 
avier
Posts: 1308
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:00 pm

First come up with some random unfounded theories (govt not happy w/ Tata) , then add some more masala to your own theories (they working on renegotiating terms). Then deflect by talking of another unrelated airline in this sale process (spicejet), despite knowing well their owner was just a prop in the sale process and wasn't getting AI anyways, and neither govt had any intention of giving him either; so no point talking on the history of that other airline.

Just wait patiently for any official announcement till the coming week, unless cooking up stories and then deflecting from topic is your forte.
 
FligtReporter
Posts: 525
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:46 pm

I hope Air India now with TATAs in,will be more better organized and a great airline to fly with..I hope tatas get more and more dreamliners and hopefully deploy them at my home routes so I get to fly more of my beloved Dreamliner from my homebase.
 
pune
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:18 pm

avier wrote:
First come up with some random unfounded theories (govt not happy w/ Tata) , then add some more masala to your own theories (they working on renegotiating terms). Then deflect by talking of another unrelated airline in this sale process (spicejet), despite knowing well their owner was just a prop in the sale process and wasn't getting AI anyways, and neither govt had any intention of giving him either; so no point talking on the history of that other airline.

Just wait patiently for any official announcement till the coming week, unless cooking up stories and then deflecting from topic is your forte.


Piyush Goyal is a minister in the Govt. and in fact has been one of the most important ministers for the present dispensation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piyush_Goyal

Even in the recent re-shuffle where new ministers were sworn in because they didn't ''perform' he is one of the minority of people whose job was safe. One can count on number of fingers of one hand the people whose job is safe. And to say he isn't important or whatever. And if spicejet was a dummy, then why such dummy applications were taken in, just to show some sort of 'transparency' or something. I can understand Indigo not being invited as they already have more than 60% market share domestically and if they were to even have Air India, they would be no competition at all.
 
aarbee
Posts: 439
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:16 pm

pune wrote:
So many unfounded conjectures in your post.

It's well know the govt. wants to hand over Air India to only TATA's, with Ajay Singh just propped up to show an additional bidder in the sale.

Yet you will state quite the opposite with some alternate theory, for whatever reasons only you know.

And Piyush Goyal's opinion don't reflect on the whole govt nor on the Air India sale.

Just wait for a few days till the official announcement, and we'll know who is actually embarassing.

If Ajay Singh has so much money on his own why doesn't he fix his own airline first, even his cargo business is in red

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 700841.ece

And not to forget he got Spicejet for only INR Rs. 2/- from the Marans, and we know who was the supporter of the same at that point in time.

https://www.outlookindia.com/website/st ... up-/302043


You forgot approx Rs. 3400 crores in debts and liabilities. (could be about USD 400m at that time)

https://www.marketingmind.in/ajay-singh ... ack-maran/

Also hiding the fact that Ajay Singh was the founder of SpiceJet and lost control of it to Maran when his brother was Union Cabinet minister in UPA.

pune wrote:
This is the same airline which in its entire life has only had one quarter of operational profit.
 
pune
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:34 pm

aarbee wrote:
pune wrote:
So many unfounded conjectures in your post.

It's well know the govt. wants to hand over Air India to only TATA's, with Ajay Singh just propped up to show an additional bidder in the sale.

Yet you will state quite the opposite with some alternate theory, for whatever reasons only you know.

And Piyush Goyal's opinion don't reflect on the whole govt nor on the Air India sale.

Just wait for a few days till the official announcement, and we'll know who is actually embarassing.

If Ajay Singh has so much money on his own why doesn't he fix his own airline first, even his cargo business is in red

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 700841.ece

And not to forget he got Spicejet for only INR Rs. 2/- from the Marans, and we know who was the supporter of the same at that point in time.

https://www.outlookindia.com/website/st ... up-/302043


You forgot approx Rs. 3400 crores in debts and liabilities. (could be about USD 400m at that time)

https://www.marketingmind.in/ajay-singh ... ack-maran/

Also hiding the fact that Ajay Singh was the founder of SpiceJet and lost control of it to Maran when his brother was Union Cabinet minister in UPA.

pune wrote:
This is the same airline which in its entire life has only had one quarter of operational profit.


Even if I were to believe everything you say, it does not tell why Civil Aviation was batting on behalf of the airline from 2014 till almost January 2020.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 541458.cms
 
pune
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:39 pm

How much does Spicejet cumulatively owns the bank as of date we do not know. In fact even in June 2021, they were given loans.

https://simpleflying.com/spicejet-goair-emergency-loan/

And this is when just last month Ajay Singh has refused to put any more of his personal money in the airline. This is is from Delhi High Court,, just of last month.

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/co ... 169600.ece

Another case of private Giains and public losses ???
 
pune
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:14 pm

Another one which does give some hint about Spicejet loans but still not the full extent. -

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... oan-report
 
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janders
Moderator
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:53 pm

Continue in the Q4 thread

>>>> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1465399

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