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MillwallSean
Posts: 994
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:07 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:51 pm

Its interesting whether locking up society was worth it. I guess people will do the maths after this pandemic is finished.

Personally, after escaping Fortress New Zealand in early January I have worked in Asia. This week was my first real travel week and i flew to Europe and have crossed a few EU borders. Its kind of back to what it used to be. Domestically all countries are as open as New Zealand and Covid is far from peoples minds. There is a lot of travel these days too.
It was similar in Qatar when I was there. Opened up to vaccinated travellers and it makes a huge difference.

However it also feels like everyone I meet is vaccinated. New Zealand is starting to get there which should allow us to open up for vaccinated travellers. I am not sure how it looks like in the rest of the country, but it feels like most aged 30-50 living on the shore got their first jab during the past three weeks.

Hopefully New Zealands future will follow the same path as Europe, GCC etc. We vaccinate then start returning to normality. To travel, a vaccination cert and a recent negative PCR is enough. We align with the rest of the world and we can finally start normality again.
Flew QR a fair bit last week, only got Q suite on one route - nuisance. Most flights were more or less full thats a positive.
HIA was really busy and well it felt damn good. I realised how much I had missed international travel, airports, gates, lounges and overpriced duty free shops. Even dealing with a grumpy flight attendant who forgot that she was working in a service profession felt good.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:23 pm

MillwallSean wrote:
Its interesting whether locking up society was worth it. I guess people will do the maths after this pandemic is finished.

Personally, after escaping Fortress New Zealand in early January I have worked in Asia. This week was my first real travel week and i flew to Europe and have crossed a few EU borders. Its kind of back to what it used to be. Domestically all countries are as open as New Zealand and Covid is far from peoples minds. There is a lot of travel these days too.
It was similar in Qatar when I was there. Opened up to vaccinated travellers and it makes a huge difference.

However it also feels like everyone I meet is vaccinated. New Zealand is starting to get there which should allow us to open up for vaccinated travellers. I am not sure how it looks like in the rest of the country, but it feels like most aged 30-50 living on the shore got their first jab during the past three weeks.

Hopefully New Zealands future will follow the same path as Europe, GCC etc. We vaccinate then start returning to normality. To travel, a vaccination cert and a recent negative PCR is enough. We align with the rest of the world and we can finally start normality again.
Flew QR a fair bit last week, only got Q suite on one route - nuisance. Most flights were more or less full thats a positive.
HIA was really busy and well it felt damn good. I realised how much I had missed international travel, airports, gates, lounges and overpriced duty free shops. Even dealing with a grumpy flight attendant who forgot that she was working in a service profession felt good.


Yeah it'll make a topic of great debate for generations to come. Question: were we ever locked except for 4 weeks back in March 2020?... Sure level 3 had restrictions but it's far from lockdown like we keep hearing people say (not pointing the finger at you, the term is just used far too often).

At a high level summary - we've maintained elimination strategy from the start, it's served us extremely well and saved lives.. (based on outcomes seen offshore).

But being so successful likely played a part in being shunted down the queue for a vaccine - now parts of the world are moving into the next phase or the pandemic and we're still trying to be COVID free.

Our economy is going great guns compared to the predictions from 16 months ago, unemployment is low and we almost have 100% freedom of domestic movement with no restrictions.

The fact is, we have two choices. Keep this up indefinitely or move to a phase of living with COVID. The later has to happen but how and when?

We should be getting close to completion Nov/Dev which leaves us 4 months to prepare for what's next... Yesterday is was mentioned this work is underway but the current state will likely continue on into next year and to not prepare for anything this summer season on the tourism front. Reading between the lines, Dec isn't just sliding to Jan. It's Mar, Apr or May. I find mind boggling.

We need to learn how to adapt and be quicker at it. The PCR test is invasive and results are slow. It's the most accurate so it's the best test in the right scenario. But if your vaccinated, why aren't we looking at lower secure MIQ, shorter MIQ how is saliva testing supporting a vaccination? If you have both why can't isolation be done at home?

I get there'll be booster shots and high risk countries for some considerable time and there will be some who'll refuse a vaccine and expect the border remain closed for years to come. It's how we manage that and how we learn to live with it. When the time is right.

'Do we also expect AIAL ect to separate high risk vs low risk flights? or do we see if as Pax by Pax scenario even if they sat next to each other on the plane?
 
zkncj
Posts: 4370
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:10 pm

NZ6 wrote:
'Do we also expect AIAL ect to separate high risk vs low risk flights? or do we see if as Pax by Pax scenario even if they sat next to each other on the plane?


Isn’t AKL already doing that? Green flights arrive at gates 1-10, and red flights arrive at gates 15-17.

Australian Arrivals should be changed to salvia testing ASAP, the current negative PCR test 72hrs before arrival is an joke. A apparently you can’t catch Covid within 72hours if departing Australia to New Zealand.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:21 pm

zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
'Do we also expect AIAL ect to separate high risk vs low risk flights? or do we see if as Pax by Pax scenario even if they sat next to each other on the plane?


Isn’t AKL already doing that? Green flights arrive at gates 1-10, and red flights arrive at gates 15-17.

Australian Arrivals should be changed to salvia testing ASAP, the current negative PCR test 72hrs before arrival is an joke. A apparently you can’t catch Covid within 72hours if departing Australia to New Zealand.


Yes, green and red zones. Essentially designed for the bubble with Aussie and Raro. But what happens when we introduce more border movements? flights might originate from low risk vs high risk countries.

Currently it's very black and white. But as we transition out of this, it introduces potential complexity. Somewhat pointless looking at a country/region specific risk like we do today if we mix everyone in an arrivals hall. But if they sat next to each other on a flight what's the point in trying.

A good example could be SQ and SIN. That could be a candidate for a grey zone flight. But passengers inbound from India would be red zone as the country is deemed 'Very High Risk' by the MOH.

Will it be, everyone is red, vaccine and negative tests plus country of original all contribute to lifting your 'risk profile'?

It's all unknowns as there's no public plan
 
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Zkpilot
Posts: 4631
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:28 am

NZ6 wrote:

We need to learn how to adapt and be quicker at it. The PCR test is invasive and results are slow. It's the most accurate so it's the best test in the right scenario. But if your vaccinated, why aren't we looking at lower secure MIQ, shorter MIQ how is saliva testing supporting a vaccination? If you have both why can't isolation be done at home?

Because…. People…..
too many idiots out there that were supposed to be self isolating at home before we had MiQ that simply didn’t do that or had visitors etc over.
Bring in ankle bracelet monitoring and making sure no visitors then maybe.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4370
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:41 am

Both NZH and Stuff are reporting that an urgent Cabinet meeting is underway, to discuss the Tasman Bubble.
Both seem to be picking that whole bubble is about to close.

[url]https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-full-pause-of-transtasman-bubble-on-table-as-cabinet-meets/DT3S6PXZDSGVKTO3BOUJHNUAJA/
[/url]
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-full-pause-of-transtasman-bubble-on-table-as-cabinet-meets/DT3S6PXZDSGVKTO3BOUJHNUAJA/
 
NZ6
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:13 am

Zkpilot wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

We need to learn how to adapt and be quicker at it. The PCR test is invasive and results are slow. It's the most accurate so it's the best test in the right scenario. But if your vaccinated, why aren't we looking at lower secure MIQ, shorter MIQ how is saliva testing supporting a vaccination? If you have both why can't isolation be done at home?

Because…. People…..
too many idiots out there that were supposed to be self isolating at home before we had MiQ that simply didn’t do that or had visitors etc over.
Bring in ankle bracelet monitoring and making sure no visitors then maybe.


Ummm - I'm talking about in future once you've had a vaccine and can produce a negative (hopefully) saliva test.
 
NZ516
Posts: 820
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:01 am

For the first time Air NZ is now the biggest international airline serving Australia even pushing out Qantas.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/ ... l-airline/
 
NZ6
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:54 pm

NZ516 wrote:
For the first time Air NZ is now the biggest international airline serving Australia even pushing out Qantas.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/ ... l-airline/


That can't be right.... isn't Qantas the airline with all the innovation and rapid growth... I mean NZ is sitting back with the same old approach because CBR, NTL and DRW weren't opened?
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1161
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:33 pm

Ron Mark appointed as Chairperson of Wings over Wairarapa. (Former Minister of Defense)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/1 ... er-airshow

This appointment could work quite well actually. I think he has the skill, connections, and vision to keep things going well. Even if I disagreed with a lot of his politics.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1957
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:24 am

NZ6 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
For the first time Air NZ is now the biggest international airline serving Australia even pushing out Qantas.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/ ... l-airline/


That can't be right.... isn't Qantas the airline with all the innovation and rapid growth... I mean NZ is sitting back with the same old approach because CBR, NTL and DRW weren't opened?

Haha - QF has added 45 new domestic routes and 2 international. What the stats reflect is that NZ is operating about 60% of all seats across the Tasman right now (and possibly canceling fewer of them than NZ). And QF isn't flying regular international schedules anywhere else.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2961
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:46 am

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
For the first time Air NZ is now the biggest international airline serving Australia even pushing out Qantas.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/ ... l-airline/


That can't be right.... isn't Qantas the airline with all the innovation and rapid growth... I mean NZ is sitting back with the same old approach because CBR, NTL and DRW weren't opened?

Haha - QF has added 45 new domestic routes and 2 international. What the stats reflect is that NZ is operating about 60% of all seats across the Tasman right now (and possibly canceling fewer of them than NZ). And QF isn't flying regular international schedules anywhere else.

Tasman bubble is now popped for next 8 weeks so NZ's reign as leading int'l carrier into and out of Australia is over.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4370
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:47 am

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-coronavirus-transtasman-travel-bubble-tipped-to-halt-for-eight-weeks/2LLYFGCXNWOOD5JZP5LDVERBTA/

Well here we go, the bubble has just been paused for the next 8 weeks from Midnight. People will be able to travel home for the next 7days then the bubble will completely pause.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1957
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:03 am

tullamarine wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

That can't be right.... isn't Qantas the airline with all the innovation and rapid growth... I mean NZ is sitting back with the same old approach because CBR, NTL and DRW weren't opened?

Haha - QF has added 45 new domestic routes and 2 international. What the stats reflect is that NZ is operating about 60% of all seats across the Tasman right now (and possibly canceling fewer of them than NZ). And QF isn't flying regular international schedules anywhere else.

Tasman bubble is now popped for next 8 weeks so NZ's reign as leading int'l carrier into and out of Australia is over.

Disappointed that Tas also included in the closure, given they've had no cases for months and months. But I understand the logic - there has been significant "leakage" between states (more than 100 have tried to enter NZ by subterfuge) and I guess we're not confident we can stop them all.

So my trip to HBA in a couple of weeks is off. Very unfortunate for the family celebration I was planning to attend and for the work I was planning to do in Hobart and Launceston. Not to mention Victoria, my next stop. Oh well.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4370
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:00 am

What sort of impact is an 8-week bubble closure going to have on the airline staffing? surely 100s of cabin crew and airport staff will now all be stood down again?

RAR + Domestic can't replace the demand just lost from the Tasman over the next 8 weeks, and that is if they even resume in 8 weeks.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2961
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:51 am

zkncj wrote:
What sort of impact is an 8-week bubble closure going to have on the airline staffing? surely 100s of cabin crew and airport staff will now all be stood down again?

RAR + Domestic can't replace the demand just lost from the Tasman over the next 8 weeks, and that is if they even resume in 8 weeks.

Yes, it will be pretty devastating. 8 weeks would mean the bubble would reopen just in time for September school holidays. For a place like Queenstown ,they'd be praying it happens given the end of September is approaching the end of the ski season so it may be a last chance to get some foreign dollars in a second disrupted season.

The closure from NZ is hard for Qld resorts who had already lost access to southern Australia tourists due to domestic border closures and whilst the NZ numbers are small in comparison, they would have helped. The resorts in Queensland will be hoping the domestic borders reopen by the September school holidays or else places like Cairns and Whitsundays will have had both the June and September holidays with few southern tourists and they will head back into the wet season when numbers naturally dip.

The only possible saving grace is that international borders will remain largely closed over Christmas so there is still the likelihood that a higher number than normal of southern tourists will come up for want of international options.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4370
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:02 am

tullamarine wrote:
The only possible saving grace is that international borders will remain largely closed over Christmas so there is still the likelihood that a higher number than normal of southern tourists will come up for want of international options.


The only issue with that will be how much damage all the state/Tasman boarders has done this year.

I could see people being allot more hesitant to book intra state / country going forward.
 
anstar
Posts: 3396
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:50 am

zkncj wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
The only possible saving grace is that international borders will remain largely closed over Christmas so there is still the likelihood that a higher number than normal of southern tourists will come up for want of international options.


The only issue with that will be how much damage all the state/Tasman boarders has done this year.

I could see people being allot more hesitant to book intra state / country going forward.


I'm not so sure. The airlines are being flexible and so are most accomodation providers so I think when the chance is there people will take it.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1957
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:49 am

anstar wrote:
zkncj wrote:

The only issue with that will be how much damage all the state/Tasman boarders has done this year.

I could see people being allot more hesitant to book intra state / country going forward.


I'm not so sure. The airlines are being flexible and so are most accomodation providers so I think when the chance is there people will take it.

The longer these closures and uncertainty go, I believe the less confidence the general public will have about travel in the longer term. I'm picking up an ambivalence on the part of many to travel even when the bubble does reopen, greater than even a few months ago. We know that the airlines themselves were surprised by the soft demand over the last couple of months; it seems like confidence in the "pent-up demand" was quite misplaced. The latest closure will in my view make the recovery even longer. Very unfortunate on many levels.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4370
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:45 pm

An rather lengthy email overnight from NZ, confirming the 8 weeks starts from the 30 July 2021 and not today….. so no Tasman travel to at least 24 Sept!

An update on your flight
Booking reference XXXXXX

Kia ora XXXXXX,
Our teams are working through the impacts of the suspension on quarantine-free travel from Australia to New Zealand announced today. We appreciate that this is an uncertain time as Governments on both sides of the Tasman work to keep their communities safe.

As you have an upcoming flight with us, we understand you may be impacted by this. Please note, quarantine-free flights continue from New Zealand to Australia, if you still wish to travel.

If you are affected by the suspension on quarantine-free flights from Australia to New Zealand, you have options available to you.

Seven-day quarantine-free travel
We will continue to operate our quarantine-free services from all states, except New South Wales, up to 11.59pm 30 July to allow people who normally reside in New Zealand to get home, without needing to go into managed isolation.

Anyone travelling from Australia to New Zealand will require a negative pre-departure test 72 hours before departure. Please visit our Travel Alerts page which is being updated regularly for the latest information.

Eight-week suspension to quarantine-free travel
From 11.59pm on Friday 30 July all quarantine-free passenger flights from Australia to New Zealand will be suspended until at least 24 September. A limited number of quarantine flights will operate from Australia to New Zealand during this time with bookings dependent on availability of MIQ accommodation.

Advice for customers
Go online - our Contact Centre is fielding a large number of calls and social media messages so we strongly encourage you to manage your booking online in the first instance
If you are booked to travel in the next seven days please continue to check the Government COVID-19 website to ensure you meet entry requirements. The page will be regularly updated as information becomes available
If you no longer wish to travel, or do not meet eligibility criteria, you can cancel your flight and opt in to credit or rebook to a later date
If you booked via a Travel Agent or Third-Party Online Agent, please contact them directly for help with your booking
For more information about travel flexibility, please see here
Our schedule will be significantly reduced after 30 July 2021 with flight cancellations expected. If your flight is cancelled, we will contact you and automatically place your booking into credit. If you need to travel from Australia to New Zealand, we strongly advise you do so in the next week.

If a credit does not meet your needs, you may have other options available to you. Please refer to the Conditions of Carriage and the applicable fare rules for more information.

If you do decide to travel, please visit our website for information on lounges affected by the suspension.

Thank you for your continued support
We understand this is an unsettling time and we would like to thank you for your continued support.
Ngā mihi nui,

Leeanne Langridge
General Manager Customer
 
bevan7
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:44 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:02 am

I flew into Auckland late last night and saw what looked like an a350 with the word Olympus on it. Anybody know this airline and what it's doing there?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8106
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:42 am

bevan7 wrote:
I flew into Auckland late last night and saw what looked like an a350 with the word Olympus on it. Anybody know this airline and what it's doing there?


It’s a 757F operating for FX for the last few months AKL-SYD.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4370
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:34 am

With the closure of the Tasman Bubble, fares in August to Rarotonga Oneway in ‘Seat Only’ are reaching around $800-1000…

With NZ being the only airline currently serving RAR, should they be regulated in someway?

Or should JQ be given an permit to operate stand alone AKL-RAR-AKL services? JQ can’t currently fly to RAR as there traffic rights require the flight to ordinate in Australia.
 
NZ516
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:42 am

Air Chatham's is about to retire their last Convair aircraft. And they might be sending it to Wanaka for display.
Looking like they are getting another ATR to replace CIB.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/whanganui-ch ... B4QSB6KIQ/
 
NZ6
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:08 pm

zkncj wrote:
With the closure of the Tasman Bubble, fares in August to Rarotonga Oneway in ‘Seat Only’ are reaching around $800-1000…

With NZ being the only airline currently serving RAR, should they be regulated in someway?

Or should JQ be given an permit to operate stand alone AKL-RAR-AKL services? JQ can’t currently fly to RAR as there traffic rights require the flight to ordinate in Australia.


I hear what you're saying, I wouldn't pay near $1200 return for the works but it's simple supply and demand isn't it?

I think sometimes we forget RAR is very small, there's only so many beds available and with 5 millions Kiwis and one tropical option the airline in a loose loose situation. If they sell all their seats at entry level fares levels they could almost add endless capacity if they wanted. But the 'no vacancy' signs will quickly go up and inhibit new bookings, bottom line, they make stuff all.

They could limit the availability and price higher but they'd be labeled as ripping the public off - have they gone too far this way?

It's a balancing act. From all reports RAR has very high occupancy and loads on flights are full. Which would indicate the balance is possibly about right?

Is the airline obligated to make travel into RAR affordable at all price points during a COVID pandemic? - I mean that's what you're asking?

Also ask those in RAR in the tourism industry, they'd want the middle / upper market to travel there not us budget conscious travelers.

Sadly, in my opinion this is just another consequence of COVID and we really shouldn't point finger at the airline.

I should add, I'm personally affected by this. I want to travel somewhere, I was looking at Australia in November (already booked) but that is very unlikely to happen. I've considered RAR but I just can't justify the price.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1957
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:38 pm

zkncj wrote:
With the closure of the Tasman Bubble, fares in August to Rarotonga Oneway in ‘Seat Only’ are reaching around $800-1000…

With NZ being the only airline currently serving RAR, should they be regulated in someway?

Or should JQ be given an permit to operate stand alone AKL-RAR-AKL services? JQ can’t currently fly to RAR as there traffic rights require the flight to ordinate in Australia.

From New Zealand's point of view, JQ already has the ability, under SAM rules, to fly fifth freedom routes to anywhere from New Zealand. If they don't have the ability to do so now, it will be because of the Cook Islands-Australia bilateral agreement. Not in the power of the NZ government.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:16 pm

Grant Robertson made some obvious comments yesterday which should paint a reasonably clear picture of Australia and the future of the Bubble.

In essence, the Bubble will not be reopened until we're confident the entire county of Australia is community transmission free and it'll likely require a period of time in this position too. My guess 14-28 days as a starting point.

Some experts are talking about the impacts the NSW outbreak will have on Christmas, their also looking at lockdowns until mid September so we can safely assume we'll see no significant improvement until Oct / Nov at the earliest but more likely beyond that time.

One can then question, when travel to Australia resumes will it be in the form of a bubble or perhaps more a "green lane" via vaccine passports and/or negative tests for NZ/AU citizens only who've only been in either country for the last 14 days. Basically opening the door to what 2022 and beyond may look like.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19- ... M4GMA5XTE/
 
433977
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:19 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:51 am

I found a photo of ZK-NHE without the engines. Here is the link i found it on as well.
https://xfw-spotter.blogspot.com/2021/0 ... k-nhe.html
Last edited by 433977 on Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
433977
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:19 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:53 am

Here is a question for you all. Should New Zealand open there borders to those who are fully vaccinated against COVID 19? or should we wait for the plan to be revealed in a few weeks time?
 
anstar
Posts: 3396
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:56 am

darrellpearce wrote:
Here is a question for you all. Should New Zealand open there borders to those who are fully vaccinated against COVID 19? or should we wait for the plan to be revealed in a few weeks time?


There has to be some benefit in being vaccinated. Quarantine free travel should be one of them I believe in both AU and NZ.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:59 am

darrellpearce wrote:
Here is a question for you all. Should New Zealand open there borders to those who are fully vaccinated against COVID 19? or should we wait for the plan to be revealed in a few weeks time?


Once we're finishing up our vaccination programme then we can look at opening up to those with trusted evidence of vaccination or unable to be safely vaccinated. Just like we've done before. But I wouldn't be rushing to open things up until the tail end of our vaccinations to help manage risk.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2961
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:15 am

darrellpearce wrote:
Here is a question for you all. Should New Zealand open there borders to those who are fully vaccinated against COVID 19? or should we wait for the plan to be revealed in a few weeks time?

Chances are this will eventually happen but not until all eligible people in both countries have had the opportunity to be vaccinated. To do it whilst there are vast tracts of population who haven't been able to access the vaccine programs dueto age restriction and supply limitations would be politically poisonous. Realistically, this means early 2022 before international borders see restrictions eased. Even then, it is likely there will be some quarantine but vaccinated will probably be ble to have home quarantine rather than hotel and for 7 days instead of 14. Australia is beginning a trial of this in Adelaide in the next month.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2833
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:02 am

DavidByrne wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Haha - QF has added 45 new domestic routes and 2 international. What the stats reflect is that NZ is operating about 60% of all seats across the Tasman right now (and possibly canceling fewer of them than NZ). And QF isn't flying regular international schedules anywhere else.

Tasman bubble is now popped for next 8 weeks so NZ's reign as leading int'l carrier into and out of Australia is over.

Disappointed that Tas also included in the closure, given they've had no cases for months and months. But I understand the logic - there has been significant "leakage" between states (more than 100 have tried to enter NZ by subterfuge) and I guess we're not confident we can stop them all.

So my trip to HBA in a couple of weeks is off. Very unfortunate for the family celebration I was planning to attend and for the work I was planning to do in Hobart and Launceston. Not to mention Victoria, my next stop. Oh well.


There absolutely hasn't been significant leakage. The logic only holds if there had been AND you don't trust your own ability to manage an incursion. I think about 4 or 5 cases in total "leaked", detected at least. None to Tasmania, WA, ACT or NT. And the other leakages are under control. So it's ridiculous you can't go on your Tasmanian trip.

So a kneejerk from the government. Sure, keep NSW closed - perfectly reasonable as a short term measure. But everyone else as well? A blanket approach is excessive and lazy.

Can only imagine the needless panic for Kiwis to get home and the pain for the airlines. And the snow resorts will be reeling at their peak time. Say what you will about domestic travelers, but Aussies are wealthier and spend more. 8 weeks is just... ugh!
 
anstar
Posts: 3396
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:27 am

tullamarine wrote:
Australia is beginning a trial of this in Adelaide in the next month.


We already have home quarantine ie Vic residents returning from SYD red zone. Whilst most were compliant there were several non compliant including the Hume family that ended up positive.,

aerokiwi wrote:

There absolutely hasn't been significant leakage. The logic only holds if there had been AND you don't trust your own ability to manage an incursion. I think about 4 or 5 cases in total "leaked", detected at least. None to Tasmania, WA, ACT or NT. And the other leakages are under control. So it's ridiculous you can't go on your Tasmanian trip.


I believe there was leak to WA from sydney around the start of the outbreak. The NT leaks were from QLD.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1957
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:55 am

aerokiwi wrote:
There absolutely hasn't been significant leakage. The logic only holds if there had been AND you don't trust your own ability to manage an incursion. I think about 4 or 5 cases in total "leaked", detected at least.

Didn't they say that 100 cases of people who had been in NSW had been stopped at the border or pre-departure trying to leave Australia from other states? If that's the case, then there must be significant leakage out of NSW given these were just the people trying to get to NZ. Or did I misunderstand what the government said altogether?
 
zkncj
Posts: 4370
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:19 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
darrellpearce wrote:
Here is a question for you all. Should New Zealand open there borders to those who are fully vaccinated against COVID 19? or should we wait for the plan to be revealed in a few weeks time?


Once we're finishing up our vaccination programme then we can look at opening up to those with trusted evidence of vaccination or unable to be safely vaccinated. Just like we've done before. But I wouldn't be rushing to open things up until the tail end of our vaccinations to help manage risk.


It should really be that once group 3 - “the at risk group”, have had there jabs. Then it should be opened up, to vaccinated travellers. After all we have then protected the people that need protection, then for the rest of us it’s no worse than the flu (if not the flu is worse).

Then the 2m doses of the Jansen vaccine, that has just been approved in New Zealand. Should be the paid option, that is who want to travel can access it for $150-300. Otherwise the free slow roll out of Pysfer can happen.

What happens if we don’t reach 90% up take? Will the government keep us closed for ever? I suspect they will struggle to get more than 70% of the population to willing get the jab.
 
Kiwiandrew
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:06 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:31 am

On the subject of allowing in vaccinated travellers, I think a big issue is going to be arriving at an agreed standard of evidence. The vaccination 'certificates' I've seen so far, both from here and abroad, could be knocked off in five minutes by anyone with half decent computer skills.

If we do arrive at an agreed standard of evidence, then I think those currently unwilling to get vaccinated may get tired of having to spend all their holidays as staycations...and as soon as they want to travel internationally their objections to bring vaccinated will probably fade quite quickly if they find no one willing to allow them entry
 
zkncj
Posts: 4370
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:17 am

Kiwiandrew wrote:
On the subject of allowing in vaccinated travellers, I think a big issue is going to be arriving at an agreed standard of evidence. The vaccination 'certificates' I've seen so far, both from here and abroad, could be knocked off in five minutes by anyone with half decent computer skills.

If we do arrive at an agreed standard of evidence, then I think those currently unwilling to get vaccinated may get tired of having to spend all their holidays as staycations...and as soon as they want to travel internationally their objections to bring vaccinated will probably fade quite quickly if they find no one willing to allow them entry


If it is anything like getting the 'offical New Zealand' I'm exempted from wearing an Face Covering Card.
https://covid19.govt.nz/health-and-wellbeing/protect-yourself-and-others-from-covid-19/wear-a-face-covering/#who-does-not-need-to-wear-a-face-covering

Then I'm concerned about the vaccination cards currently being issued in New Zealand.

But on the side note, if you don't want to wear an facemask on your next domestic flight, you just need to print the PDF from the publicly available link above.
 
User avatar
77west
Posts: 1042
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:52 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:21 am

zkncj wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
darrellpearce wrote:
Here is a question for you all. Should New Zealand open there borders to those who are fully vaccinated against COVID 19? or should we wait for the plan to be revealed in a few weeks time?


Once we're finishing up our vaccination programme then we can look at opening up to those with trusted evidence of vaccination or unable to be safely vaccinated. Just like we've done before. But I wouldn't be rushing to open things up until the tail end of our vaccinations to help manage risk.


It should really be that once group 3 - “the at risk group”, have had there jabs. Then it should be opened up, to vaccinated travellers. After all we have then protected the people that need protection, then for the rest of us it’s no worse than the flu (if not the flu is worse).

Then the 2m doses of the Jansen vaccine, that has just been approved in New Zealand. Should be the paid option, that is who want to travel can access it for $150-300. Otherwise the free slow roll out of Pysfer can happen.

What happens if we don’t reach 90% up take? Will the government keep us closed for ever? I suspect they will struggle to get more than 70% of the population to willing get the jab.


The grouping seem random - according to my TXT I am part of group 3 - at risk individuals. No idea why as I have no underlying conditions and am under 40 and don't work in a border related industry. Yet my mum who is 61 and has high blood pressure is not yet eligible apparently. Random.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2961
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:26 am

zkncj wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
darrellpearce wrote:
Here is a question for you all. Should New Zealand open there borders to those who are fully vaccinated against COVID 19? or should we wait for the plan to be revealed in a few weeks time?


Once we're finishing up our vaccination programme then we can look at opening up to those with trusted evidence of vaccination or unable to be safely vaccinated. Just like we've done before. But I wouldn't be rushing to open things up until the tail end of our vaccinations to help manage risk.


It should really be that once group 3 - “the at risk group”, have had there jabs. Then it should be opened up, to vaccinated travellers. After all we have then protected the people that need protection, then for the rest of us it’s no worse than the flu (if not the flu is worse).

Then the 2m doses of the Jansen vaccine, that has just been approved in New Zealand. Should be the paid option, that is who want to travel can access it for $150-300. Otherwise the free slow roll out of Pysfer can happen.

What happens if we don’t reach 90% up take? Will the government keep us closed for ever? I suspect they will struggle to get more than 70% of the population to willing get the jab.

It is highly unlikely any country will ever make 90% vaccination coverage, anything above 75% would be considered outstanding with only Israel currently above 60% fully vaccinated. Governments will need to move away from these unrealistic targets and change to more nuanced targets such as when the entire eligible population has had an opportunity to be vaccinated then restrictions will be eased. People who have chosen to go unvaccinated will be aware of the risks they are taking and will be deemed to have accepted them.

This is very similar to what the UK is doing now. Infection numbers have increased but hospitalisations and deaths haven't spiked anywhere near as much which tends to suggest the vaccine program has achieved what it was meant to. Of course, for this route to be taken the Australian and NZ governments will need to accept that Covid is endemic and some level of ongoing infection and death cannot be avoided. They already understand this for the flu but politically haven't admitted Covid will have to be treated in the same way.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1957
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:23 am

zkncj wrote:
It should really be that once group 3 - “the at risk group”, have had there jabs. Then it should be opened up, to vaccinated travellers. After all we have then protected the people that need protection, then for the rest of us it’s no worse than the flu (if not the flu is worse)

You're obviously not watching what's happening elsewhere - the Delta variant appears to be no respecter of age or present health risk status. "No worse than the flu" is sadly the attitude that has devastated several other countries. There's been little talk about the long-term lung damage (and damage to other organs) in many covid survivors, but these are real public health concerns, quite apart from the disease itself.

Yes, at some point we will be able to let vaccinated international travellers into NZ, but (as others have pointed out) proof of vaccination is wide open to abuse, and we're a long way from that point where the majority of our people are safe. At this stage I'm happy to sit back and watch how the UK fares with its "experiment" of removing all restrictions on the basis of their high vaccination rate.

Airlines generally are driven by the profit motive, not a desire for maintaining public health. People like Ryanair's Michael O"Leary froth at the mouth about the operating environment his airline has to endure but at the end of the day it's his bank balance that is driving him, not concern for his fellow human beings.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:59 pm

darrellpearce wrote:
Here is a question for you all. Should New Zealand open there borders to those who are fully vaccinated against COVID 19? or should we wait for the plan to be revealed in a few weeks time?


No.

Reason: The vaccines primary benefit is reducing the effects the virus has on you, it doesn't stop you getting it or giving it. Although a lot of reports suggest the chances of spreading it are greatly reduced. It'd just take one person to bring it in, give it to one person who'll potentially let it spread through our unvaccinated community.

We've come this far - let's see what the next 6 months bring as far as the "roll out". If we trust the system we'll be done by Christmas.

If we're all vaccinated, or had the opportunity we should be able to turn the tap on slowly which much start with what you say.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:16 pm

aerokiwi wrote:
There absolutely hasn't been significant leakage. The logic only holds if there had been AND you don't trust your own ability to manage an incursion. I think about 4 or 5 cases in total "leaked", detected at least. None to Tasmania, WA, ACT or NT. And the other leakages are under control. So it's ridiculous you can't go on your Tasmanian trip.

So a kneejerk from the government. Sure, keep NSW closed - perfectly reasonable as a short term measure. But everyone else as well? A blanket approach is excessive and lazy.

Can only imagine the needless panic for Kiwis to get home and the pain for the airlines. And the snow resorts will be reeling at their peak time. Say what you will about domestic travelers, but Aussies are wealthier and spend more. 8 weeks is just... ugh!


I think a week ago, we were also very uncertain if VIC and QLD had control of it. Given we're dealing with the famous "Delta" strain and the political issues around state borders and no "ring of steel" as they call it a blanket closure was arguably understandable.

It now very much seems, in a fortnights time - NSW will be in strict lockdown and the rest of Australia will be virtually restriction free. Any restrictions in place will only be due to NSW situation and the "risk" of a leak.

Was 8 weeks jumping the gun? Yes... but I'm also of the opinion in "What's the point now?".

8 weeks is late September, SYD will be in lockdown until 17Sep it seems. So we may as well push out another month, so we're in October. Wont we be in a different position by then (hopefully).

As per my other posts, do we entertain a bubble in the original sense of a bubble at this stage or do we just look forward and start enabling vaccinated people to travel under certain conditions without MIQ?

Heck it'd be nice to have something like the above in place pre Xmas.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:29 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
zkncj wrote:
It should really be that once group 3 - “the at risk group”, have had there jabs. Then it should be opened up, to vaccinated travellers. After all we have then protected the people that need protection, then for the rest of us it’s no worse than the flu (if not the flu is worse)

You're obviously not watching what's happening elsewhere - the Delta variant appears to be no respecter of age or present health risk status. "No worse than the flu" is sadly the attitude that has devastated several other countries. There's been little talk about the long-term lung damage (and damage to other organs) in many covid survivors, but these are real public health concerns, quite apart from the disease itself.

Yes, at some point we will be able to let vaccinated international travellers into NZ, but (as others have pointed out) proof of vaccination is wide open to abuse, and we're a long way from that point where the majority of our people are safe. At this stage I'm happy to sit back and watch how the UK fares with its "experiment" of removing all restrictions on the basis of their high vaccination rate.

Airlines generally are driven by the profit motive, not a desire for maintaining public health. People like Ryanair's Michael O"Leary froth at the mouth about the operating environment his airline has to endure but at the end of the day it's his bank balance that is driving him, not concern for his fellow human beings.


The other issue is these "groups" only have start dates. The following group doesn't start when the previous one has finished.

The only requirement to have it done is for those border, airport/airline and MIQ workers where it's now a requirement to be vaccinated. But if you're in group 2. You don't have to have had it.

My point is, we'd need to do a whole heap of work around communicating any changes which would bring some eligible people out of group 1, 2 and 3 sooner than expected, that'd probably derail plans and bookings for the next month or two which would just delay the whole program.

We'll have do this at some point anyway, even those in group 4 may be happy to wait but with a change on the border policy it will likely flush out some undecided people. Which is why it'd be good to communicate their intentions nice and early. Maybe not a specific dates but a high level plan so we don't end up with a bottleneck at the back end.
 
DaveMetroD
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:05 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:27 pm

NZ6 wrote:

Reason: The vaccines primary benefit is reducing the effects the virus has on you, it doesn't stop you getting it or giving it. Although a lot of reports suggest the chances of spreading it are greatly reduced. It'd just take one person to bring it in, give it to one person who'll potentially let it spread through our unvaccinated community.


Vaccines do stop you from getting it which means you can't spread it.

I have been following the NZ thread because I would like to visit in the future.
A lot of talk about bubbles but that concept is dead. NZ can't have a bubble with Australia and a bubble with Singapore for example.
Because unless you can keep them apart while in NZ, it's not two bubbles, it's one bubble.

While I have travel options right now out of the USA, I won't be going anywhere outside the border.
That's because I have no desire to get stuck in another country or find out I can't do what I want while in that country.
 
a350lover
Posts: 998
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:40 pm

Sorry for my ignorance. I see there is an Air New Zealand flight out of ZQN daily to CHC (on A320) leaving at 7am and was just wondering if that’s rostered to CHC crews or Air New Zealand in fact operates a single aircraft base in Queenstown?

What are the Air New Zealand crew bases?

Many thanks!
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1957
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:42 pm

DaveMetroD wrote:
Vaccines do stop you from getting it which means you can't spread it.

No. The vaccine does NOT stop you getting Covid, and does NOT stop you passing it on to others. What it does do is provide a level of protection that means that if you DO catch Covid, it's likely you'll only have a very mild case, and your ability to infect others is significantly reduced. Nevertheless it's entirely possible that a vaccinated person could be the vector for infecting a raft of unvaccinated people with whom they come into contact.

Also, given that most vaccines appear to be in the region of 80-95% effective, the corollary is that they are ineffective in 5-15% of cases. Or in the case of Sinovax, only about 50% effective and 50% ineffective. So the vaccine is a significant aid to beating the virus, but it is by no means a guarantee, and an abundance of caution will be required for a while yet.
 
DaveMetroD
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:05 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:46 pm

Your vaccines in NZ obviously don't work like they do here in the USA.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:58 pm

DaveMetroD wrote:
Your vaccines in NZ obviously don't work like they do here in the USA.


No, I just think you need to do a little research on how they work. They are not 100% protection.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread- July 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:03 pm

77west wrote:
zkncj wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:

Once we're finishing up our vaccination programme then we can look at opening up to those with trusted evidence of vaccination or unable to be safely vaccinated. Just like we've done before. But I wouldn't be rushing to open things up until the tail end of our vaccinations to help manage risk.


It should really be that once group 3 - “the at risk group”, have had there jabs. Then it should be opened up, to vaccinated travellers. After all we have then protected the people that need protection, then for the rest of us it’s no worse than the flu (if not the flu is worse).

Then the 2m doses of the Jansen vaccine, that has just been approved in New Zealand. Should be the paid option, that is who want to travel can access it for $150-300. Otherwise the free slow roll out of Pysfer can happen.

What happens if we don’t reach 90% up take? Will the government keep us closed for ever? I suspect they will struggle to get more than 70% of the population to willing get the jab.


The grouping seem random - according to my TXT I am part of group 3 - at risk individuals. No idea why as I have no underlying conditions and am under 40 and don't work in a border related industry. Yet my mum who is 61 and has high blood pressure is not yet eligible apparently. Random.


The way groupings have been collated has not been communicated clearly. Things like having had serious mental health issues is enough to put you into group three. Just by being diagnosed with adult ADHD is enough for me to be part of group 3 if I really wanted to push it. It is also dependent on what the person's GP has recorded. Stuff of this scale is always going to be messy but they should have done better at communicating the details of things for those that want/need to know more than just the high level guidelines.


zkncj wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
darrellpearce wrote:
Here is a question for you all. Should New Zealand open there borders to those who are fully vaccinated against COVID 19? or should we wait for the plan to be revealed in a few weeks time?


Once we're finishing up our vaccination programme then we can look at opening up to those with trusted evidence of vaccination or unable to be safely vaccinated. Just like we've done before. But I wouldn't be rushing to open things up until the tail end of our vaccinations to help manage risk.


It should really be that once group 3 - “the at risk group”, have had there jabs. Then it should be opened up, to vaccinated travellers. After all we have then protected the people that need protection, then for the rest of us it’s no worse than the flu (if not the flu is worse).

Then the 2m doses of the Jansen vaccine, that has just been approved in New Zealand. Should be the paid option, that is who want to travel can access it for $150-300. Otherwise the free slow roll out of Pysfer can happen.

What happens if we don’t reach 90% up take? Will the government keep us closed for ever? I suspect they will struggle to get more than 70% of the population to willing get the jab.


Covid is a lot worse than the flu. The flu does not have evidence of the long term health impacts that we are seeing with enough frequency to be worried about. We may never hit 90% but we should be waiting for everyone to have had a proper chance of getting the vaccine. This also means people in rural and urban areas that would find it hard due to mobility or work/family schedules. I would not expect any opening before first quarter 22 at the very earliest.

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