Welcome to the COVID-19 Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread for Q3 2021.

Please keep your posts aviation-focused.

Link to oprevious Q2 thread >> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1459383

Australia is reducing overseas passenger arrival caps by 50% in response to the growing threat of COVID-19's Delta strain.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... caps-by-50

International arrivals will be limited to just over 3,000 passengers per week until early 2022.

AirAsia to suspend Indonesia ops for a 1-month at the request of the government from 06 July 2021 to support the effort to slow COVID-19 case spike,

https://news.trust.org/item/20210703021745-a60y4/

Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City impose Covid lockdowns including suspension of flights to/from 10 domestic cities.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-paci ... 021-07-07/

With the state of emergency extended in Tokyo region until August 22, JAL will cancel additional 4000+ domestic flights between July 17 - Aug 16.

http://www.orientaviation.com/articles/ ... ic-network

(related, today Japan announced that there would be no spectators at Tokyo Olympics venues)

Chile extends its border closures and domestic travel restrictions.

https://aerolatinnews.com/destacado/chi ... o-del-pais

Despite having more than 73% of the target population vaccinated they continue facing high case counts.

mercure1 wrote:

Chile extends its border closures and domestic travel restrictions.

https://aerolatinnews.com/destacado/chi ... o-del-pais

Despite having more than 73% of the target population vaccinated they continue facing high case counts.

Well yeah, they made the mistake of using the Chinese vaccine.

Thai AirAsia has suspended all domestic flights from 12-31 July 2021 due to new health and travel restrictions.

Thai government also imposed ban on flights from 9pm-4am due curfews in Bangkok and 4 other provinces.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/21 ... july-12-31

readytotaxi wrote:

A group of leading travel businesses including Ryanair, BA, travel business Tui and Manchester Airports Group have launched legal action against the government over its travel curbs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57774788

They want more transparency over how the government takes decisions on Covid travel rules.

A highly contagious and deadly pathogen that’s changed the world as we know it continues to ravage certain parts of the world. That’s a pretty sound reason to implement restrictions. What else do they need to know?

The industry must really start speaking with one voice to force media and government to report and make decisions based on relative facts not irrelevant ones.

Effective tomorrow (21/7) and due to the troubling rise in the number of COVID cases, Thailand has taken the extreme step of suspending most of its domestic flights. The measure will see all domestic flights to and from the capital city of Bangkok suspended.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-paci ... 021-07-18/

Airlines say the measure jeopardizes their existence

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/21 ... r-the-cosh

With virus surge, US to keep international travel restrictions

https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-jo ... a98af7c199

LAXintl wrote:

With virus surge, US to keep international travel restrictions

https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-jo ... a98af7c199

This is dumb and does nothing to stop the spread of Covid in the US.

UpNAWAy wrote:

The industry must really start speaking with one voice to force media and government to report and make decisions based on relative facts not irrelevant ones.

You mean make decisions which only benefit the airlines of course, and what 'facts' suits them. Plus....the media don't make decisions at all.

CitizenJustin wrote:

readytotaxi wrote:

A group of leading travel businesses including Ryanair, BA, travel business Tui and Manchester Airports Group have launched legal action against the government over its travel curbs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57774788

They want more transparency over how the government takes decisions on Covid travel rules.

A highly contagious and deadly pathogen that’s changed the world as we know it continues to ravage certain parts of the world. That’s a pretty sound reason to implement restrictions. What else do they need to know?

Nothing, except as a marketing hype to make everyone believe that they somehow 'care' about other things other than their own profits

EU announced they will not provide blanket slot waivers for IATA W21 season.

Instead airlines operating at slot-regulated airports must use at least half of of slots they hold, or risk being reassigned.
Additionally, the rule on ‘force majeure’, by which the slot rule is suspended if exceptional circumstances related to the COVID pandemic are in effect, has been entirely eliminated for intra-EU operations.

https://www.flightglobal.com/networks/a ... 51.article

Just got an aircraft change for JFK-FRA on LH 401 for Sept 8. Was set as 748, now 333. Return was 748, now 343. Guess seat sales didn't match earlier optimism. Not helping that the authorities on both sides of the Atlantic keep changing the COVID info and requirements.

GOL now plans to return to its largest international market, Argentina, on November. Initially flights would be restricted to Buenos Aires AEP from Rio de Janeiro GIG and Sao Paulo GRU only.

https://www.sirchandler.com.ar/2021/08/ ... noviembre/

Web500sjc wrote:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/06/united-airlines-vaccine-mandate-employees.html

United to require all employees to be vaccinated by October 25 (with exceptions for medical or religious reasons).

Actually "...five weeks after the FDA fully approves a Covid vaccine or five weeks after Sept. 20, whichever is first." None of these vaccines are FDA licensed pharmaceuticals yet. They are being administered to people under emergency use authorizations. It's likely no one can legally be forced to take them in these circumstances. Once they are licensed by the FDA the legal pathways will be much clearer. This is why United and Scott Kirby are waiting. Smart move.

Canada opens its border to the U.S. citizens and residents for non-essential travel today as long as each is fully vaccinated and has a negative COVID-19 test result within the 72-hour time period prior to entry.

Is there a significant pick up in passenger load on U.S.-Canada transborder flights today?
Just curious.

Mat1776 wrote:

Canada opens its border to the U.S. citizens and residents for non-essential travel today as long as each is fully vaccinated and has a negative COVID-19 test result within the 72-hour time period prior to entry.

Is there a significant pick up in passenger load on U.S.-Canada transborder flights today?
Just curious.

Not sure about loads, but AC had an important uptick in the number of transborder flights as of last Monday.

Canada to require air travelers, passengers on trains between provinces and cruise ship passengers be vaccinated in order to travel.

https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-bu ... 5b8f5b2cf5

U.S. to extend mask mandate till January 18.

https://skift.com/2021/08/17/u-s-to-ext ... o-january/

Emirates Airlines was banned from operating passenger flights to Hong Kong for 14 days starting August 24 due to the import of 5 COVID passengers

https://twitter.com/tripperhead/status/ ... 6855547904

Spain reopens today for Brazilians.
All vaccines accepted.

https://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/covid-19/spain-reopens-to-brazilian-travelers-allows-entry-with-coronavac/

Hawaii's governor says "now is not the time" for tourists to visit as the state struggles and hospital capacity strained.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -to-hawaii

Looks like Delta is getting serious about the vaccine. Brings a real number to what unvaccinated people cost companies.

Delta Air Lines will charge employees on the company health plan $200 a month if they fail to get vaccinated against COVID-19, a policy the airline's top executive says is necessary because the average hospital stay for the virus costs the airline $40,000

https://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/wireStory/delta-air-lines-make-unvaccinated-employees-pay-charge-79637347?cid=clicksource_4380645_1_heads_hero_live_headlines_hed

airtechy wrote:

Looks like Delta is getting serious about the vaccine. Brings a real number to what unvaccinated people cost companies.

Delta Air Lines will charge employees on the company health plan $200 a month if they fail to get vaccinated against COVID-19, a policy the airline's top executive says is necessary because the average hospital stay for the virus costs the airline $40,000

https://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/wireStory/delta-air-lines-make-unvaccinated-employees-pay-charge-79637347?cid=clicksource_4380645_1_heads_hero_live_headlines_hed

Here's an article from CNBC, with the "clicksource" data link removed....

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/25/delta-a ... ccine.html

The Delta chapter of ALPA has repeatedly said vaccinations should be voluntary for its members.

The union “has consistently advocated to maintain the right of each individual pilot to consult with his or her medical provider regarding COVID-19 vaccinations or booster doses,” it said in a statement. “While the Delta [master executive council] respects Delta Air Line’s efforts to mitigate the impact of breakthrough COVID-19 variant infections, it needs to bargain with the Delta MEC over any employer-mandated vaccination for pilots.”

airtechy wrote:

Looks like Delta is getting serious about the vaccine. Brings a real number to what unvaccinated people cost companies.

Delta Air Lines will charge employees on the company health plan $200 a month if they fail to get vaccinated against COVID-19, a policy the airline's top executive says is necessary because the average hospital stay for the virus costs the airline $40,000

https://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/wireStory/delta-air-lines-make-unvaccinated-employees-pay-charge-79637347?cid=clicksource_4380645_1_heads_hero_live_headlines_hed

This is such bad policy. I really hope a lawsuit comes from this before it starts and stops it in its tracks.

stlAV8R wrote:

airtechy wrote:

Looks like Delta is getting serious about the vaccine. Brings a real number to what unvaccinated people cost companies.

Delta Air Lines will charge employees on the company health plan $200 a month if they fail to get vaccinated against COVID-19, a policy the airline's top executive says is necessary because the average hospital stay for the virus costs the airline $40,000

https://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/wireStory/delta-air-lines-make-unvaccinated-employees-pay-charge-79637347?cid=clicksource_4380645_1_heads_hero_live_headlines_hed

This is such bad policy. I really hope a lawsuit comes from this before it starts and stops it in its tracks.

Why is it such a bad policy?

stlAV8R wrote:

airtechy wrote:

Looks like Delta is getting serious about the vaccine. Brings a real number to what unvaccinated people cost companies.

Delta Air Lines will charge employees on the company health plan $200 a month if they fail to get vaccinated against COVID-19, a policy the airline's top executive says is necessary because the average hospital stay for the virus costs the airline $40,000

https://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/wireStory/delta-air-lines-make-unvaccinated-employees-pay-charge-79637347?cid=clicksource_4380645_1_heads_hero_live_headlines_hed

This is such bad policy. I really hope a lawsuit comes from this before it starts and stops it in its tracks.

Elaborate on why it's a bad policy?

stlAV8R wrote:

airtechy wrote:

Looks like Delta is getting serious about the vaccine. Brings a real number to what unvaccinated people cost companies.

Delta Air Lines will charge employees on the company health plan $200 a month if they fail to get vaccinated against COVID-19, a policy the airline's top executive says is necessary because the average hospital stay for the virus costs the airline $40,000

https://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/wireStory/delta-air-lines-make-unvaccinated-employees-pay-charge-79637347?cid=clicksource_4380645_1_heads_hero_live_headlines_hed

This is such bad policy. I really hope a lawsuit comes from this before it starts and stops it in its tracks.

Delta is only exercising its right to set its own policies. Same as the person who decides not to get vaccinated. It cuts both ways...

Pellegrine wrote:

stlAV8R wrote:

airtechy wrote:

Looks like Delta is getting serious about the vaccine. Brings a real number to what unvaccinated people cost companies.



https://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/wireStory/delta-air-lines-make-unvaccinated-employees-pay-charge-79637347?cid=clicksource_4380645_1_heads_hero_live_headlines_hed

This is such bad policy. I really hope a lawsuit comes from this before it starts and stops it in its tracks.

Why is it such a bad policy?

Without getting too personal, I've done frontline work for DL in ATL and other cities. The pay is barely a living wage for most. Pivoting for just a moment, and for clarity, I'm vaccinated and fully believe in it and want to see more people receive the vaccine. I also know, from my relatives, why there can be "real" vaccine hesitancy. I have family affected by the Tuskegee trials. And not distant family. For some, getting this vaccine can be an impossible decision. One that as we all have seen has torn family and friends apart. A decision that has caused death and despair.

At the end of the day, this penalty policy was not well thought out. I've read the memo. It fails to address remaining hesitancies, alternative options, how to get more info outside of DL, what to do if you're allergic, etc. I saw no mention of EAP or mental health and wellness, a leading factor in vaccine hesitancy. And to leave people with a cliffhanger of "more to come" will just cause more unnecessary anxiety. This $200 that DL is going to collect will just further hurt those who barely get by and do nothing to save the company. There is very deeply rooted, verifiable, legitimate trauma that can keep people from getting this vaccine. Until that's addressed, it's just a poor policy in my opinion.

stlAV8R wrote:

Pellegrine wrote:

stlAV8R wrote:

This is such bad policy. I really hope a lawsuit comes from this before it starts and stops it in its tracks.

Why is it such a bad policy?

Without getting too personal, I've done frontline work for DL in ATL and other cities. The pay is barely a living wage for most. Pivoting for just a moment, and for clarity, I'm vaccinated and fully believe in it and want to see more people receive the vaccine. I also know, from my relatives, why there can be "real" vaccine hesitancy. I have family affected by the Tuskegee trials. And not distant family. For some, getting this vaccine can be an impossible decision. One that as we all have seen has torn family and friends apart. A decision that has caused death and despair.

At the end of the day, this penalty policy was not well thought out. I've read the memo. It fails to address remaining hesitancies, alternative options, how to get more info outside of DL, what to do if you're allergic, etc. I saw no mention of EAP or mental health and wellness, a leading factor in vaccine hesitancy. And to leave people with a cliffhanger of "more to come" will just cause more unnecessary anxiety. This $200 that DL is going to collect will just further hurt those who barely get by and do nothing to save the company. There is very deeply rooted, verifiable, legitimate trauma that can keep people from getting this vaccine. Until that's addressed, it's just a poor policy in my opinion.

I don't want to get off topic, so I'll just say I do appreciate your response.

I am sure many question the legality of Delta's COVID vaccine requirements, etc (spoiler, it is legal). What I did not know and found out today is that employers have had similar hiring practices but regarding nicotine for decades now. Alaska Airlines has had a nicotine free hiring policy since 1985.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... rs-advocat

777luver wrote:

stlAV8R wrote:

airtechy wrote:

Looks like Delta is getting serious about the vaccine. Brings a real number to what unvaccinated people cost companies.



https://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/wireStory/delta-air-lines-make-unvaccinated-employees-pay-charge-79637347?cid=clicksource_4380645_1_heads_hero_live_headlines_hed

This is such bad policy. I really hope a lawsuit comes from this before it starts and stops it in its tracks.

Elaborate on why it's a bad policy?

In my mind it’s not so much a bad policy as it probably just won’t move things much. I could see them gaining 2-3% more vaccinated but at the end of the day Delta pays darn well and 2400 or 4800 a year for singles or marrieds with no kids probably doesn’t make most bat an eye. It’s those with 2-3-4 kids over 12 who aren’t vaccinated where maybe it does something. But again, keep in mind many of them might just flip their insurance over to their husband or wife’s employer. At my job about 61% of people use our insurance while the other 39 use their spouse’s. You might just see that number at Delta just shift heavily the other way. The weekly test probably doesn’t bother more than a tiny number of people

LNCS0930 wrote:

777luver wrote:

stlAV8R wrote:

This is such bad policy. I really hope a lawsuit comes from this before it starts and stops it in its tracks.

Elaborate on why it's a bad policy?

In my mind it’s not so much a bad policy as it probably just won’t move things much. I could see them gaining 2-3% more vaccinated but at the end of the day Delta pays darn well and 2400 or 4800 a year for singles or marrieds with no kids probably doesn’t make most bat an eye. It’s those with 2-3-4 kids over 12 who aren’t vaccinated where maybe it does something. But again, keep in mind many of them might just flip their insurance over to their husband or wife’s employer. At my job about 61% of people use our insurance while the other 39 use their spouse’s. You might just see that number at Delta just shift heavily the other way. The weekly test probably doesn’t bother more than a tiny number of people

You think an additional $2,400 out of pocket for health insurance is just going to be tolerated by employees as the cost of being employed by DL? Yeah I don't see that at all, particularly by frontline employees who are not vaccinated. No person wants to spend an additional $200 per month for their health insurance.

alasizon wrote:

LNCS0930 wrote:

777luver wrote:

Elaborate on why it's a bad policy?

In my mind it’s not so much a bad policy as it probably just won’t move things much. I could see them gaining 2-3% more vaccinated but at the end of the day Delta pays darn well and 2400 or 4800 a year for singles or marrieds with no kids probably doesn’t make most bat an eye. It’s those with 2-3-4 kids over 12 who aren’t vaccinated where maybe it does something. But again, keep in mind many of them might just flip their insurance over to their husband or wife’s employer. At my job about 61% of people use our insurance while the other 39 use their spouse’s. You might just see that number at Delta just shift heavily the other way. The weekly test probably doesn’t bother more than a tiny number of people

You think an additional $2,400 out of pocket for health insurance is just going to be tolerated by employees as the cost of being employed by DL? Yeah I don't see that at all, particularly by frontline employees who are not vaccinated. No person wants to spend an additional $200 per month for their health insurance.

Most of their flight attendants for example make over 100,000 per year. If they pick up like 3 overtime trips that 2,400 is made up and more. It’s just not enough to matter to employees who make probably 75-80,000 or so and up. For those ramp folks and gate agents yeah it probably does hurt but again if they work enough overtime it’s erased

LNCS0930 wrote:

alasizon wrote:

LNCS0930 wrote:

In my mind it’s not so much a bad policy as it probably just won’t move things much. I could see them gaining 2-3% more vaccinated but at the end of the day Delta pays darn well and 2400 or 4800 a year for singles or marrieds with no kids probably doesn’t make most bat an eye. It’s those with 2-3-4 kids over 12 who aren’t vaccinated where maybe it does something. But again, keep in mind many of them might just flip their insurance over to their husband or wife’s employer. At my job about 61% of people use our insurance while the other 39 use their spouse’s. You might just see that number at Delta just shift heavily the other way. The weekly test probably doesn’t bother more than a tiny number of people

You think an additional $2,400 out of pocket for health insurance is just going to be tolerated by employees as the cost of being employed by DL? Yeah I don't see that at all, particularly by frontline employees who are not vaccinated. No person wants to spend an additional $200 per month for their health insurance.

Most of their flight attendants for example make over 100,000 per year. If they pick up like 3 overtime trips that 2,400 is made up and more. It’s just not enough to matter to employees who make probably 75-80,000 or so and up. For those ramp folks and gate agents yeah it probably does hurt but again if they work enough overtime it’s erased

"Most" of their flight attendants most certainly don't make over $100K per year, many don't even make $80K per year. Never mind their thousands of ground-based employees who make less than that.

A $200 a month surcharge is more than most employee contributions toward premium. For comparison, most smoking surcharges are $25-50 per month.

dcajet wrote:

stlAV8R wrote:

airtechy wrote:

Looks like Delta is getting serious about the vaccine. Brings a real number to what unvaccinated people cost companies.



https://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/wireStory/delta-air-lines-make-unvaccinated-employees-pay-charge-79637347?cid=clicksource_4380645_1_heads_hero_live_headlines_hed

This is such bad policy. I really hope a lawsuit comes from this before it starts and stops it in its tracks.

Delta is only exercising its right to set its own policies. Same as the person who decides not to get vaccinated. It cuts both ways...

It’s punitive though. That fee is far beyond the costs involved.

$2400 per year means they expect 1:25 unvaccinated employees to be hospitalized with overhead counted and no vaccinated to be.

That is an unreasonable estimate based on all we know of the way this is progressing among vaccinated individuals. So it’s punitive, NOT a cost recovery fee.

A more equitable change would be to increase all contributions by X amount and then a discount for those who are vaccinated and keep up to date, or who have already been infected and recovered.

These mandates ALL ignore that natural immunity is proving to be the only longer term way to beat this, as recovered are rarely reinfected, and vaccinating previous patients has shown in studies to do absolutely nothing, having no benefit.

I see Delta’s punitive action as finally leading to unionization.

European Union recommends reinstating restrictions on US visitors, by removing US from the list of safe travel nations due to rising COVID cases in America.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/ ... index.html

Vietnam tells airlines to stop selling domestic flights until further notice.

https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vietn ... 48980.html

Italy tightens entry requirements on US tourists, adds self-isolation mandate on the heels of the European Union removing the USA from its safe travel list.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/travel/de ... 667008001/

CEOs from 45 large companies in US, Europe and Asia say business ravel will be less post-pandemic world - estimated down 20-40% percent. They site the ease and efficiency of technology, cost savings and carbon emission reductions are driving cut back.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... er-changed

leader1 wrote:

readytotaxi wrote:

The European Union is expected to recommend on Monday that member states reinstate Covid-related travel restrictions and halt nonessential travel from the United States and five other countries, Kosovo, Israel, Montenegro, Lebanon and North Macedonia.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/ ... index.html

Looks like the recommendation period has ended and they will now reimpose restrictions. International travel just can't catch a break.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ovid-cases

Does anyone know exactly what this means or when will the changes (if any) take place? I am booked on Air France on the 17th of September from the US to Paris and returning on the 25th. I keep checking the Air France website, the French consulate page in New York but they don't say anything about this. They say travel is open if you are vaccinated or have negative test. We are all vaccinated and have a US passport. I am hoping that this "change" doesn't impact us and hopefully travel stays open for a while. I would think that anything is actually in place, the consulate or the national carrier would be aware of it?

Thanks.

hekk wrote:

Does anyone know exactly what this means or when will the changes (if any) take place? I am booked on Air France on the 17th of September from the US to Paris and returning on the 25th. I keep checking the Air France website, the French consulate page in New York but they don't say anything about this. They say travel is open if you are vaccinated or have negative test. We are all vaccinated and have a US passport. I am hoping that this "change" doesn't impact us and hopefully travel stays open for a while. I would think that anything is actually in place, the consulate or the national carrier would be aware of it?

Thanks.

I have moved your post into the News & Discussion thread as the other post is only for reporting news.

I recommend you to have a look at this website:

Coronavirus - Advice for Foreign Nationals in France

My understanding is for the time being, there is nothing to worry about, but I think you should consider making PCR tests before departure.

SQ22 wrote:

hekk wrote:

Does anyone know exactly what this means or when will the changes (if any) take place? I am booked on Air France on the 17th of September from the US to Paris and returning on the 25th. I keep checking the Air France website, the French consulate page in New York but they don't say anything about this. They say travel is open if you are vaccinated or have negative test. We are all vaccinated and have a US passport. I am hoping that this "change" doesn't impact us and hopefully travel stays open for a while. I would think that anything is actually in place, the consulate or the national carrier would be aware of it?

Thanks.

I have moved your post into the News & Discussion thread as the other post is only for reporting news.

I recommend you to have a look at this website:

Coronavirus - Advice for Foreign Nationals in France

My understanding is for the time being, there is nothing to worry about, but I think you should consider making PCR tests before departure.

Thank you, and sorry about posting in the other thread.

Alaska Air will require new hires to be vaccinated, and unvaccinated employees will no longer receive quarantine pay if they are exposed to the virus.

https://komonews.com/news/local/alaska- ... vaccinated

As of September 6, U.S.visitors will not be permitted to enter Sweden for non-urgent reasons, regardless of vaccination status.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel ... rists/amp/?

[twoid][/twoid]

lightsaber wrote:

Bill moving forward to require proof of vaccination or within 72 hours a negative test before air travel in USA.
https://news.yahoo.com/fauci-calls-unva ... 44798.html

It won’t pass though.

US DOT extending waivers for airlines holding limited entry use or lose it international route authorities until March 26, 2022.

No news from FAA yet about domestic slot waivers for W21 season.

OST-2020-0035