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sldispatcher
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Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:35 pm

Summer loads, as reported by Jayunited, continue to be healthy. Will be very interesting to see what September brings.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:33 am

atrude777 wrote:
I realize Ishrion Posts here too.....

https://ishrionaviation.blogspot.com/20 ... field.html


From that same post:

United's other new long-haul route, Washington-Dulles (IAD) to Accra (ACC), is getting a boost this winter. Currently, the route operates three times a week but will increase to daily between December 1, 2021 and January 31, 2022. United continues to grow in Africa with this new Accra route and the recent launch of its Newark to Johannesburg route.


Has anybody heard a peep about Lagos? Is it still tied up in regulatory on the Nigeria side?
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:49 am

adamblang wrote:
Has anybody heard a peep about Lagos? Is it still tied up in regulatory on the Nigeria side?


Still awaiting government approval, until that happens there is nothing United can do and last I heard there is still no time table for when that approval will come. (I'm wondering if United perhaps burned a few bridges in Nigeria the last time we left the market so Nigeria is just going to drag out this process.)

sldispatcher wrote:
Summer loads, as reported by Jayunited, continue to be healthy. Will be very interesting to see what September brings.


Sorry I forgot to post the weekly numbers on Saturday morning.

This week July 18th thru July 24th United has another 2.55 million revenue passengers on the books a slight uptick from last weeks numbers but still shy of the week of the 4th of July's pandemic record.

However this week IAH narrowly takes the top spot from DEN in terms of total revenue O&D passengers.

In an interesting twist of things this week United slowest day with the least number of passengers will be Thursday July 23rd (normally our slowest days are Tuesday and Wednesday) where our revenue load factor for domestic and short haul international (Mexico, Central America, Caribbean, Canada) will only hit 79% (good day to fly if you are a nonrev) the remaining 6 days this week the revenue load factor again domestic and short haul only will range between 89.4% - 84.2%.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:45 pm

Are the September schedules finalized?
 
Okcflyer
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:30 pm

How have the lack of change fees changed last minute bookings/availability/scheduling? It seems to me it's far more likely to have seats open up in the last couple of days before travel and thus perhaps the oversell algorithms need a bit of adjustment?

We took advantage of this last weekend, changing our departure airport from TUL to XNA and moving it back from Thursday to Sunday. United picked up $62/ea in extra fare. Had the change fee still existed, we would have taken our original flights on Thursday instead.
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:13 pm

Okcflyer wrote:
How have the lack of change fees changed last minute bookings/availability/scheduling? It seems to me it's far more likely to have seats open up in the last couple of days before travel and thus perhaps the oversell algorithms need a bit of adjustment?

We took advantage of this last weekend, changing our departure airport from TUL to XNA and moving it back from Thursday to Sunday. United picked up $62/ea in extra fare. Had the change fee still existed, we would have taken our original flights on Thursday instead.



So I think you are pointing out that United actually benefitted from not having the change fee, correct? I would agree with that statement.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:30 pm

alasizon wrote:
Sometimes a spare doesn't help either, could be a 319 spare on a flight scheduled to be on a 739, most of the time better to take the 2 hour MX delay than bump 60 people.


Perhaps unintended, but you just made an argument for fleet simplicity, both in terms of seat/count range, and pilot staffing.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:22 pm

Does United have spare larger aircraft they could use to allow more seats at EWR without more flights? I’m seeing nothing but full flights.
 
airplanedriver6
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:59 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Does United have spare larger aircraft they could use to allow more seats at EWR without more flights? I’m seeing nothing but full flights.

Not yet.

But EWR also was specifically mentioned in the official plan to ‘upguage’ the entire airline with the recent significant aircraft orders.
 
alpine1989
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:00 am

jetblastdubai wrote:
Boeing12345 wrote:

Used 737's are included in the data sets as we are actively receiving them. However some (not all) of the used 737 are going back to SWA too.


Any idea why UA decided not to take all the ex-WN 73Gs?


None of the 19 B73Gs are going back to WN. They were all ex-AirTran jets leased from GECAS. UA bought them outright from GECAS.
 
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:07 am

Anyone know if there’s any teeth to the rumor that UA is going to fully take back the lounge space from AS at JFK T7? Someone on one of the other sites said an agent said the club will reopen as a UA Club in a few weeks.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:23 am

alpine1989 wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:
Boeing12345 wrote:

Used 737's are included in the data sets as we are actively receiving them. However some (not all) of the used 737 are going back to SWA too.


Any idea why UA decided not to take all the ex-WN 73Gs?


None of the 19 B73Gs are going back to WN. They were all ex-AirTran jets leased from GECAS. UA bought them outright from GECAS.

How many ex-FL/GECAS frames is UA buying?
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:06 pm

intotheair wrote:
Anyone know if there’s any teeth to the rumor that UA is going to fully take back the lounge space from AS at JFK T7? Someone on one of the other sites said an agent said the club will reopen as a UA Club in a few weeks.

Even if true, a few weeks would be a very quick turnaround.
 
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STT757
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:10 pm

intotheair wrote:
Anyone know if there’s any teeth to the rumor that UA is going to fully take back the lounge space from AS at JFK T7? Someone on one of the other sites said an agent said the club will reopen as a UA Club in a few weeks.


Here's a theory, just a theory:

UA is giving up their Paine Field gates and slots (not sure they have slots or is just gates?) operation to AS in exchange for slots and the Club at JFK.
 
alpine1989
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:19 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
alpine1989 wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:

Any idea why UA decided not to take all the ex-WN 73Gs?


None of the 19 B73Gs are going back to WN. They were all ex-AirTran jets leased from GECAS. UA bought them outright from GECAS.

How many ex-FL/GECAS frames is UA buying?


The original United release indicated 19 frames. I’ve also seen reports that there are 21 B73Gs in the pipeline.

https://hub.united.com/united-airlines- ... 11870.html

https://onemileatatime.com/united-airli ... -used-737/
 
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:20 pm

cosyr wrote:
intotheair wrote:
Anyone know if there’s any teeth to the rumor that UA is going to fully take back the lounge space from AS at JFK T7? Someone on one of the other sites said an agent said the club will reopen as a UA Club in a few weeks.

Even if true, a few weeks would be a very quick turnaround.


That's what I thought, but maybe they'd just quickly repaint and put in new furniture. UA is basically on borrowed time at JFK, and T7 is still set to be demolished in the not-too-distant future, so maybe they couldn't wait to do a full renovation...
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:47 pm

intotheair wrote:
cosyr wrote:
intotheair wrote:
Anyone know if there’s any teeth to the rumor that UA is going to fully take back the lounge space from AS at JFK T7? Someone on one of the other sites said an agent said the club will reopen as a UA Club in a few weeks.

Even if true, a few weeks would be a very quick turnaround.


That's what I thought, but maybe they'd just quickly repaint and put in new furniture. UA is basically on borrowed time at JFK, and T7 is still set to be demolished in the not-too-distant future, so maybe they couldn't wait to do a full renovation...

That would make sense, because even though JFK is a relatively small operation, it is all premium service, so it is a bit of a competitive disadvantage to not offer a club (except against B6. I still can't believe they haven't created a Mint Lounge)
 
Cmac787
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:43 am

Well they must have listened to me lol. We now have a spare 767-400 at IAD and they just used it on a MCO turn. Capt refused a 757-300 due to an inoperable right pack.



MDC862 wrote:
Your advocating for 3-5 planes per hub...not going to happen. The acquisition cost to just have them sit there to get a "tan" is upwards of at least $600M and probably upwards of a billion for :on call" status. Do you have multiple cars if your daily broke? No industry will commit $1B just to sit there.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:20 pm

Cmac787 wrote:
Well they must have listened to me lol. We now have a spare 767-400 at IAD and they just used it on a MCO turn. Capt refused a 757-300 due to an inoperable right pack.



MDC862 wrote:
Your advocating for 3-5 planes per hub...not going to happen. The acquisition cost to just have them sit there to get a "tan" is upwards of at least $600M and probably upwards of a billion for :on call" status. Do you have multiple cars if your daily broke? No industry will commit $1B just to sit there.


Not exactly true there is 1 spare 764 right now that is shared between both IAD and EWR. What you originally posted was United needs 3-5 spare planes per hub. I can tell you this United does not have 3-5 spare widebody aircraft sitting around at our hubs right now. Also this morning if either EWR-HNL or IAD-HNL have a maintenance issue there are no spare 764s available so either flight would then be extensively delayed. The spare 764 is still sitting on the ground at MCO it isn't schedule to depart MCO until 14:30 today and the last 764 currently in service is operating EWR-LIS-EWR. There are currently 3 maybe 4 frames in heavy maintenance but we still have some time before they return to schedule service.

Focusing on United's widebody fleet only United basically shares widebody spares. EWR and IAD, as well as SFO and LAX basically shared widebodies spares 767s, 777, and 787s, it is nothing to see United ferry a spare from SFO to LAX or vise versa and between EWR and IAD.
Pre-pandemic United kept a singular 763 spare at ORD, and a spare PW 77E was also staged at ORD. UA kept a spare GE 77E at IAH although at times IAH would have to share that spare with EWR if EWR had 2 or more GE 77E out of service. If IAH needed a spare 763 they would turn to either ORD, EWR, or IAD for help to move a 763 to IAH. To keep IAH-SYD from canceling pre-pandemic United would use the morning inbound 789, SYD-IAH for the evening outbound IAH-SYD but just in case there was an issue with that aircraft that maintenance couldn't fix in time United always had at least 1 domestic arrival on a 789 from either SFO or LAX into IAH arrive the afternoon in IAH that we could swap IAH-SYD onto if needed because the 789 wasn't schedule to fly back to the West Coast until 7 a.m. the next morning. To the best of my knowledge there were no spares at DEN. If DEN needed a spare widebody UA would first look to either SFO or LAX for a spare if it was a 787, if DEN needed a spare PW 77A the only place they could get one from was SFO or perhaps ORD if we had one stage at ORD. It was hard for ORD to keep their spare PW 77A, for the most part most spare 77As were kept at SFO since SFO was the largest hub that utilized the 77As.

Also going back to the summer of 2019 United only has 1.5 spare 789s available for the entire system during that time frame because the 789s had to pick up a lot of the slack do to the high number of 77Es out of service for Polaris/PE installation. Having 3-5 spares widebodies per hub is not a realistic expectation and you will not see United allocate 21-35 widebodies to the "spare" category. In fact looking back at 2019 and United's narrowbody fleet United only had 29 spare narrowbodies (A320/19s, 737s all, 752/753s) for the entire system. Part of that could have been a direct result of the MAX grounding but still 29 spares for the entire narrowbody fleet tells you how important it is to have aircraft in the air where can airline can make money instead of having them on the ground as spares.
 
Cmac787
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:06 pm

What’s the difference is having these aircraft at the hubs vs ROW. There are over 90 airplanes parked at ROW right now. Is it cheaper to have them parked there?

jayunited wrote:
Cmac787 wrote:
Well they must have listened to me lol. We now have a spare 767-400 at IAD and they just used it on a MCO turn. Capt refused a 757-300 due to an inoperable right pack.



MDC862 wrote:
Your advocating for 3-5 planes per hub...not going to happen. The acquisition cost to just have them sit there to get a "tan" is upwards of at least $600M and probably upwards of a billion for :on call" status. Do you have multiple cars if your daily broke? No industry will commit $1B just to sit there.


Not exactly true there is 1 spare 764 right now that is shared between both IAD and EWR. What you originally posted was United needs 3-5 spare planes per hub. I can tell you this United does not have 3-5 spare widebody aircraft sitting around at our hubs right now. Also this morning if either EWR-HNL or IAD-HNL have a maintenance issue there are no spare 764s available so either flight would then be extensively delayed. The spare 764 is still sitting on the ground at MCO it isn't schedule to depart MCO until 14:30 today and the last 764 currently in service is operating EWR-LIS-EWR. There are currently 3 maybe 4 frames in heavy maintenance but we still have some time before they return to schedule service.

Focusing on United's widebody fleet only United basically shares widebody spares. EWR and IAD, as well as SFO and LAX basically shared widebodies spares 767s, 777, and 787s, it is nothing to see United ferry a spare from SFO to LAX or vise versa and between EWR and IAD.
Pre-pandemic United kept a singular 763 spare at ORD, and a spare PW 77E was also staged at ORD. UA kept a spare GE 77E at IAH although at times IAH would have to share that spare with EWR if EWR had 2 or more GE 77E out of service. If IAH needed a spare 763 they would turn to either ORD, EWR, or IAD for help to move a 763 to IAH. To keep IAH-SYD from canceling pre-pandemic United would use the morning inbound 789, SYD-IAH for the evening outbound IAH-SYD but just in case there was an issue with that aircraft that maintenance couldn't fix in time United always had at least 1 domestic arrival on a 789 from either SFO or LAX into IAH arrive the afternoon in IAH that we could swap IAH-SYD onto if needed because the 789 wasn't schedule to fly back to the West Coast until 7 a.m. the next morning. To the best of my knowledge there were no spares at DEN. If DEN needed a spare widebody UA would first look to either SFO or LAX for a spare if it was a 787, if DEN needed a spare PW 77A the only place they could get one from was SFO or perhaps ORD if we had one stage at ORD. It was hard for ORD to keep their spare PW 77A, for the most part most spare 77As were kept at SFO since SFO was the largest hub that utilized the 77As.

Also going back to the summer of 2019 United only has 1.5 spare 789s available for the entire system during that time frame because the 789s had to pick up a lot of the slack do to the high number of 77Es out of service for Polaris/PE installation. Having 3-5 spares widebodies per hub is not a realistic expectation and you will not see United allocate 21-35 widebodies to the "spare" category. In fact looking back at 2019 and United's narrowbody fleet United only had 29 spare narrowbodies (A320/19s, 737s all, 752/753s) for the entire system. Part of that could have been a direct result of the MAX grounding but still 29 spares for the entire narrowbody fleet tells you how important it is to have aircraft in the air where can airline can make money instead of having them on the ground as spares.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:17 pm

Cmac787 wrote:
What’s the difference is having these aircraft at the hubs vs ROW. There are over 90 airplanes parked at ROW right now. Is it cheaper to have them parked there?

jayunited wrote:
Cmac787 wrote:
Well they must have listened to me lol. We now have a spare 767-400 at IAD and they just used it on a MCO turn. Capt refused a 757-300 due to an inoperable right pack.





Not exactly true there is 1 spare 764 right now that is shared between both IAD and EWR. What you originally posted was United needs 3-5 spare planes per hub. I can tell you this United does not have 3-5 spare widebody aircraft sitting around at our hubs right now. Also this morning if either EWR-HNL or IAD-HNL have a maintenance issue there are no spare 764s available so either flight would then be extensively delayed. The spare 764 is still sitting on the ground at MCO it isn't schedule to depart MCO until 14:30 today and the last 764 currently in service is operating EWR-LIS-EWR. There are currently 3 maybe 4 frames in heavy maintenance but we still have some time before they return to schedule service.

Focusing on United's widebody fleet only United basically shares widebody spares. EWR and IAD, as well as SFO and LAX basically shared widebodies spares 767s, 777, and 787s, it is nothing to see United ferry a spare from SFO to LAX or vise versa and between EWR and IAD.
Pre-pandemic United kept a singular 763 spare at ORD, and a spare PW 77E was also staged at ORD. UA kept a spare GE 77E at IAH although at times IAH would have to share that spare with EWR if EWR had 2 or more GE 77E out of service. If IAH needed a spare 763 they would turn to either ORD, EWR, or IAD for help to move a 763 to IAH. To keep IAH-SYD from canceling pre-pandemic United would use the morning inbound 789, SYD-IAH for the evening outbound IAH-SYD but just in case there was an issue with that aircraft that maintenance couldn't fix in time United always had at least 1 domestic arrival on a 789 from either SFO or LAX into IAH arrive the afternoon in IAH that we could swap IAH-SYD onto if needed because the 789 wasn't schedule to fly back to the West Coast until 7 a.m. the next morning. To the best of my knowledge there were no spares at DEN. If DEN needed a spare widebody UA would first look to either SFO or LAX for a spare if it was a 787, if DEN needed a spare PW 77A the only place they could get one from was SFO or perhaps ORD if we had one stage at ORD. It was hard for ORD to keep their spare PW 77A, for the most part most spare 77As were kept at SFO since SFO was the largest hub that utilized the 77As.

Also going back to the summer of 2019 United only has 1.5 spare 789s available for the entire system during that time frame because the 789s had to pick up a lot of the slack do to the high number of 77Es out of service for Polaris/PE installation. Having 3-5 spares widebodies per hub is not a realistic expectation and you will not see United allocate 21-35 widebodies to the "spare" category. In fact looking back at 2019 and United's narrowbody fleet United only had 29 spare narrowbodies (A320/19s, 737s all, 752/753s) for the entire system. Part of that could have been a direct result of the MAX grounding but still 29 spares for the entire narrowbody fleet tells you how important it is to have aircraft in the air where can airline can make money instead of having them on the ground as spares.


yes. Also, there's no room at the hubs to have 90 spare aircraft parked.
 
codc10
Posts: 3201
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:18 pm

Cmac787 wrote:
What’s the difference is having these aircraft at the hubs vs ROW. There are over 90 airplanes parked at ROW right now. Is it cheaper to have them parked there?


The need for spares is most acute in the widebody and 757 fleets. The 764s are returning from storage, but require heavy maintenance so they can't just be reactivated at a moment's notice. Same for the 757-200s. The 777s in storage are substantially all PW-powered frames which aren't allowed to fly passengers yet. Once you back those out, there just aren't many potential spares in storage.
 
bigb
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:48 pm

Cmac787 wrote:
What’s the difference is having these aircraft at the hubs vs ROW. There are over 90 airplanes parked at ROW right now. Is it cheaper to have them parked there?

jayunited wrote:
Cmac787 wrote:
Well they must have listened to me lol. We now have a spare 767-400 at IAD and they just used it on a MCO turn. Capt refused a 757-300 due to an inoperable right pack.





Not exactly true there is 1 spare 764 right now that is shared between both IAD and EWR. What you originally posted was United needs 3-5 spare planes per hub. I can tell you this United does not have 3-5 spare widebody aircraft sitting around at our hubs right now. Also this morning if either EWR-HNL or IAD-HNL have a maintenance issue there are no spare 764s available so either flight would then be extensively delayed. The spare 764 is still sitting on the ground at MCO it isn't schedule to depart MCO until 14:30 today and the last 764 currently in service is operating EWR-LIS-EWR. There are currently 3 maybe 4 frames in heavy maintenance but we still have some time before they return to schedule service.

Focusing on United's widebody fleet only United basically shares widebody spares. EWR and IAD, as well as SFO and LAX basically shared widebodies spares 767s, 777, and 787s, it is nothing to see United ferry a spare from SFO to LAX or vise versa and between EWR and IAD.
Pre-pandemic United kept a singular 763 spare at ORD, and a spare PW 77E was also staged at ORD. UA kept a spare GE 77E at IAH although at times IAH would have to share that spare with EWR if EWR had 2 or more GE 77E out of service. If IAH needed a spare 763 they would turn to either ORD, EWR, or IAD for help to move a 763 to IAH. To keep IAH-SYD from canceling pre-pandemic United would use the morning inbound 789, SYD-IAH for the evening outbound IAH-SYD but just in case there was an issue with that aircraft that maintenance couldn't fix in time United always had at least 1 domestic arrival on a 789 from either SFO or LAX into IAH arrive the afternoon in IAH that we could swap IAH-SYD onto if needed because the 789 wasn't schedule to fly back to the West Coast until 7 a.m. the next morning. To the best of my knowledge there were no spares at DEN. If DEN needed a spare widebody UA would first look to either SFO or LAX for a spare if it was a 787, if DEN needed a spare PW 77A the only place they could get one from was SFO or perhaps ORD if we had one stage at ORD. It was hard for ORD to keep their spare PW 77A, for the most part most spare 77As were kept at SFO since SFO was the largest hub that utilized the 77As.

Also going back to the summer of 2019 United only has 1.5 spare 789s available for the entire system during that time frame because the 789s had to pick up a lot of the slack do to the high number of 77Es out of service for Polaris/PE installation. Having 3-5 spares widebodies per hub is not a realistic expectation and you will not see United allocate 21-35 widebodies to the "spare" category. In fact looking back at 2019 and United's narrowbody fleet United only had 29 spare narrowbodies (A320/19s, 737s all, 752/753s) for the entire system. Part of that could have been a direct result of the MAX grounding but still 29 spares for the entire narrowbody fleet tells you how important it is to have aircraft in the air where can airline can make money instead of having them on the ground as spares.


Space?
 
jayunited
Posts: 3594
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:33 pm

A few updates from the employee event today

United is still trying to get regulatory approval for IAD-LOS they didn't go into detail about why it is taking so long to get government approval all they would say is our government approval team is working extremely hard to get it done but the process is painfully slow. According to UA our next window of opportunity to launch IAD-LOS would be December but if we are going to launch in December of this year we would need approval to operate the flight within the next 6 weeks. If we don't have approval within that time frame the launch would then have to be pushed back into 2022.

United expects all the PW 777s to return to service, even though there have been some aircraft movements over the past few days no return date has been set, there is still a lot more work to be done with Pratt & Whitney, Boeing, and the FAA. Then the FAA then has to review and sign off on everything so it will be a while before those aircraft are back in service but United does hope to have them all back in service by next summer at the latest.

Don't expect to see any new routes to Asia for a while, don't expect to see Asia bounce back quickly either. United expects Asia to be one of the last regions to lift COVID entry restrictions probably won't see any meaningful movement in Asia until 2023 at the earliest.

With the expectation that the PW 777 will be back in service by summer of 2022 United will have 30 additional widebodies in service by summer of 2022 verses summer of 2019. With that being said the international team is working right now on United's international route network for spring/summer of 2022. There will be some resumptions of suspended international routes especially to Europe but in addition to resuming routes next year the international team is also looking at launching new routes on widebodies to perhaps South America and/or across the Atlantic to Europe. However it's not just Europe, the team is looking at other regions across the Atlantic including but not limited to expanding service from the US to Africa. They were not ready to announce anything today but hopefully soon maybe by the end of Q3 there will be some exciting announcements coming out about new international routes across the Atlantic and/or South America.

EWR is going to be a major headache for United for the next few months because basically that airport now only has 1 usable runway for departures and arrivals. While United has adhered to the FAA's request to not exceed a certain number of flights (United was requested to not exceed 240 daily flights) other carriers (one in particular was mentioned) are not adhering to the FAA's request and continues to add flights. United has now send a request to the FAA requesting they change the guidance from a request to an order because the airport can't handle the capacity and EWR's numbers which continue to tank prove it. Also look for United to start proactively canceling flights out of EWR at least 24 hours in advance during construction and rerouting those customers through other hubs especially if any type of adverse weather is forecast. United has beefed up our daily departures out of IAD (IAD is now up to 230 daily departures) to take some of the pressure off EWR but even that may not be enough so they are asking all other hubs and lines stations to really step up and run as smooth of an operation as they possibly can to minimize the impact to our customers.

The way employees have treated customers and interacted with customers during the pandemic is paying off and customers are noticing employees being a more friendly and going the extra mile to help. United is pleading with employees to continue to be helpful, to listen to the customers, be friendly, smile (even with the mask on) and go the extra step for our customers. Employees are a big piece of the puzzle in changing how customers and the public at large view and feel about United Airlines. Basically what it took to get United to this point in the pandemic is what it will take going forward and more if we want customers to continue to choose to fly United Airlines. Executive leadership does not want to see United Airlines slip back into our old habits our old way of treating customers and they are doing their part by spending the money to improve the customers experience by investing in technology, upgrading the interiors of the aircraft, buying new air planes, upgrading onboard meals, and a whole lot of other stuff they have control over. However, none of that matters if a customer has a bad interaction with an employee, because all the customer will remember and talk about are the employee's actions.

Lastly they made it clear United still has a long way to go before we get back to profitability we have some debt that has to be paid off but we are headed in the right direction financially.
 
UALFAson
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:00 am

jayunited wrote:
United is pleading with employees to continue to be helpful, to listen to the customers, be friendly, smile (even with the mask on) and go the extra step for our customers. Employees are a big piece of the puzzle in changing how customers and the public at large view and feel about United Airlines. Basically what it took to get United to this point in the pandemic is what it will take going forward and more if we want customers to continue to choose to fly United Airlines. Executive leadership does not want to see United Airlines slip back into our old habits our old way of treating customers and they are doing their part by spending the money to improve the customers experience by investing in technology, upgrading the interiors of the aircraft, buying new air planes, upgrading onboard meals, and a whole lot of other stuff they have control over. However, none of that matters if a customer has a bad interaction with an employee, because all the customer will remember and talk about are the employee's actions.


THIS. It kills me to read blogs or articles or posts on FB that somehow involve either UA specifically or the airline industry as a whole and inevitable the most liked comment is the one complaining about how terrible UA's customer service is.

Just as I think DL defaults to, what in my experience has been an undeserved, reputation for outstanding customer service, UA continues to be the airline people love to hate. It has been like that for decades and they will never fully recover from the Dr. Dao incident (event though that wasn't their employees). Fair or not, UA employees have to provide 110% customer service just to be considered acceptable. I'm encouraged that the company believes positive customer service is making a difference, and hopefully their better operations than AA and WN of late will convince more pax that maybe UA isn't so bad after all, but it's a battle their employees have to fight to win every single day.
 
Cmac787
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:18 am

Looks like 737-MAX8 number 2 N27252 will exit SEA induction today F2738 to IAH
 
rjbesikof
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:48 am

jayunited wrote:
A few updates from the employee event today

United is still trying to get regulatory approval for IAD-LOS they didn't go into detail about why it is taking so long to get government approval all they would say is our government approval team is working extremely hard to get it done but the process is painfully slow. According to UA our next window of opportunity to launch IAD-LOS would be December but if we are going to launch in December of this year we would need approval to operate the flight within the next 6 weeks. If we don't have approval within that time frame the launch would then have to be pushed back into 2022.

United expects all the PW 777s to return to service, even though there have been some aircraft movements over the past few days no return date has been set, there is still a lot more work to be done with Pratt & Whitney, Boeing, and the FAA. Then the FAA then has to review and sign off on everything so it will be a while before those aircraft are back in service but United does hope to have them all back in service by next summer at the latest.

Don't expect to see any new routes to Asia for a while, don't expect to see Asia bounce back quickly either. United expects Asia to be one of the last regions to lift COVID entry restrictions probably won't see any meaningful movement in Asia until 2023 at the earliest.

With the expectation that the PW 777 will be back in service by summer of 2022 United will have 30 additional widebodies in service by summer of 2022 verses summer of 2019. With that being said the international team is working right now on United's international route network for spring/summer of 2022. There will be some resumptions of suspended international routes especially to Europe but in addition to resuming routes next year the international team is also looking at launching new routes on widebodies to perhaps South America and/or across the Atlantic to Europe. However it's not just Europe, the team is looking at other regions across the Atlantic including but not limited to expanding service from the US to Africa. They were not ready to announce anything today but hopefully soon maybe by the end of Q3 there will be some exciting announcements coming out about new international routes across the Atlantic and/or South America.

EWR is going to be a major headache for United for the next few months because basically that airport now only has 1 usable runway for departures and arrivals. While United has adhered to the FAA's request to not exceed a certain number of flights (United was requested to not exceed 240 daily flights) other carriers (one in particular was mentioned) are not adhering to the FAA's request and continues to add flights. United has now send a request to the FAA requesting they change the guidance from a request to an order because the airport can't handle the capacity and EWR's numbers which continue to tank prove it. Also look for United to start proactively canceling flights out of EWR at least 24 hours in advance during construction and rerouting those customers through other hubs especially if any type of adverse weather is forecast. United has beefed up our daily departures out of IAD (IAD is now up to 230 daily departures) to take some of the pressure off EWR but even that may not be enough so they are asking all other hubs and lines stations to really step up and run as smooth of an operation as they possibly can to minimize the impact to our customers.

The way employees have treated customers and interacted with customers during the pandemic is paying off and customers are noticing employees being a more friendly and going the extra mile to help. United is pleading with employees to continue to be helpful, to listen to the customers, be friendly, smile (even with the mask on) and go the extra step for our customers. Employees are a big piece of the puzzle in changing how customers and the public at large view and feel about United Airlines. Basically what it took to get United to this point in the pandemic is what it will take going forward and more if we want customers to continue to choose to fly United Airlines. Executive leadership does not want to see United Airlines slip back into our old habits our old way of treating customers and they are doing their part by spending the money to improve the customers experience by investing in technology, upgrading the interiors of the aircraft, buying new air planes, upgrading onboard meals, and a whole lot of other stuff they have control over. However, none of that matters if a customer has a bad interaction with an employee, because all the customer will remember and talk about are the employee's actions.

Lastly they made it clear United still has a long way to go before we get back to profitability we have some debt that has to be paid off but we are headed in the right direction financially.


Yep, I think airlines will be putting in a lot of capacity to Europe next summer. For example, I think the remaining SFO-Europe (AMS, CDG, ZRH, and DUB) routes will relaunch in NW21 or NS22. A couple of questions regarding the rest of the international network:
1) Do you think we will see any additional LAX or DEN-Europe flights like LAX-FRA or DEN-CDG? LAX and DEN are not big Europe stations but with most TPAC destinations remaining closed, maybe we will see some expansion from those United States hubs.
2) Will United move ahead with launching the seasonal Intl stuff they announced in Fall 2019 that were supposed to start in NS20 but never launched (due to the COVID virus) like EWR-PMO/NCE? I do think UA will launch ORD-ZRH given that ZRH is a partner hub.
3) How are EWR-JNB and IAD-ACC doing? If the most recent launches are doing well, the next Africa routes I see 'em launching could include IAD-CPT/JNB or EWR-CMN.
4) Is the airport in the Maldives (MLE) big enough to support widebodies. If so, do you think SFO/EWR-MLE could be feasible?
 
sfojvjets
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:54 am

rjbesikof wrote:
Yep, I think airlines will be putting in a lot of capacity to Europe next summer. For example, I think the remaining SFO-Europe (AMS, CDG, ZRH, and DUB) routes will relaunch in NW21 or NS22. A couple of questions regarding the rest of the international network:
1) Do you think we will see any additional LAX or DEN-Europe flights like LAX-FRA or DEN-CDG? LAX and DEN are not big Europe stations but with most TPAC destinations remaining closed, maybe we will see some expansion from those United States hubs.
2) Will United move ahead with launching the seasonal Intl stuff they announced in Fall 2019 that were supposed to start in NS20 but never launched (due to the COVID virus) like EWR-PMO/NCE? I do think UA will launch ORD-ZRH given that ZRH is a partner hub.
3) How are EWR-JNB and IAD-ACC doing? If the most recent launches are doing well, the next Africa routes I see 'em launching could include IAD-CPT/JNB or EWR-CMN.
4) Is the airport in the Maldives (MLE) big enough to support widebodies. If so, do you think SFO/EWR-MLE could be feasible?


I agree with your points considering SFO. I also have to wonder if they will add other markets not necessarily in Europe. Perhaps 2022 could be the year we see SFO-LIM/BOG? Those are sizeable unserved markets and as JayUnited said, South America may be ripe for a big capacity boost.

If we're talking Europe, and United is not afraid to consider lower-yielding markets, there are some key missing pieces from SFO that I'm sure would do well seasonally, namely SFO-MAD/FCO/BCN. MAD has historically been served directly by thrice-weekly IB A332 service, but the route is not bookable for 2022 and I personally believe it's been dropped. FCO is another big one that had been served by Norwegian from OAK. Norwegian was due to continue serving it after they made the switch to SFO, but of course, they collapsed before they could fly SFO-FCO. Alitalia even announced FCO-SFO for summer 2020, of course, before COVID killed everything. Had the pandemic not happened, SFO would have had not one, but two routes to Italy (MXP/FCO) and three carriers between those two routes, which I find astounding. Finally, there's BCN, which is served directly by IB for LEVEL, IAG's long-haul low-cost carrier. I doubt UA wants to compete with that, but SFO-BCN is *very* popular in the summer, with 2 carriers serving it in 2019. Then there's also VIE but personally I believe that OS, rather than UA, would be the one to launch that. A wildcard would be SFO-KEF, but I don't think that would ever happen on UA. Iceair cut it since it required a 19-hour stay on the ground at SFO in order to optimize the flight to arrive before the European bank so they could sell connections, not just O&D.

If UA is not afraid to chase lower-yielding pax, then these are some prime options that come to mind, at least from SFO. Other than that, I think ORD/EWR/IAD will totally explode with TATL traffic + new routes in summer 2022. Should be very fun to see!

+ your point about the Maldives – frankly they are way, way too far to justify direct commercial service. EWR-MLE is ~25 nmi farther than SFO-BLR, for context. And SFO-MLE is well over 8000 nmi. I have no doubt in saying that those two won't happen. Plus, they are the ME3's bread-and-butter and they would always beat UA on pricing.
 
rjbesikof
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:30 am

sfojvjets wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Yep, I think airlines will be putting in a lot of capacity to Europe next summer. For example, I think the remaining SFO-Europe (AMS, CDG, ZRH, and DUB) routes will relaunch in NW21 or NS22. A couple of questions regarding the rest of the international network:
1) Do you think we will see any additional LAX or DEN-Europe flights like LAX-FRA or DEN-CDG? LAX and DEN are not big Europe stations but with most TPAC destinations remaining closed, maybe we will see some expansion from those United States hubs.
2) Will United move ahead with launching the seasonal Intl stuff they announced in Fall 2019 that were supposed to start in NS20 but never launched (due to the COVID virus) like EWR-PMO/NCE? I do think UA will launch ORD-ZRH given that ZRH is a partner hub.
3) How are EWR-JNB and IAD-ACC doing? If the most recent launches are doing well, the next Africa routes I see 'em launching could include IAD-CPT/JNB or EWR-CMN.
4) Is the airport in the Maldives (MLE) big enough to support widebodies. If so, do you think SFO/EWR-MLE could be feasible?


I agree with your points considering SFO. I also have to wonder if they will add other markets not necessarily in Europe. Perhaps 2022 could be the year we see SFO-LIM/BOG? Those are sizeable unserved markets and as JayUnited said, South America may be ripe for a big capacity boost.

If we're talking Europe, and United is not afraid to consider lower-yielding markets, there are some key missing pieces from SFO that I'm sure would do well seasonally, namely SFO-MAD/FCO/BCN. MAD has historically been served directly by thrice-weekly IB A332 service, but the route is not bookable for 2022 and I personally believe it's been dropped. FCO is another big one that had been served by Norwegian from OAK. Norwegian was due to continue serving it after they made the switch to SFO, but of course, they collapsed before they could fly SFO-FCO. Alitalia even announced FCO-SFO for summer 2020, of course, before COVID killed everything. Had the pandemic not happened, SFO would have had not one, but two routes to Italy (MXP/FCO) and three carriers between those two routes, which I find astounding. Finally, there's BCN, which is served directly by IB for LEVEL, IAG's long-haul low-cost carrier. I doubt UA wants to compete with that, but SFO-BCN is *very* popular in the summer, with 2 carriers serving it in 2019. Then there's also VIE but personally I believe that OS, rather than UA, would be the one to launch that. A wildcard would be SFO-KEF, but I don't think that would ever happen on UA. Iceair cut it since it required a 19-hour stay on the ground at SFO in order to optimize the flight to arrive before the European bank so they could sell connections, not just O&D.

If UA is not afraid to chase lower-yielding pax, then these are some prime options that come to mind, at least from SFO. Other than that, I think ORD/EWR/IAD will totally explode with TATL traffic + new routes in summer 2022. Should be very fun to see!

+ your point about the Maldives – frankly they are way, way too far to justify direct commercial service. EWR-MLE is ~25 nmi farther than SFO-BLR, for context. And SFO-MLE is well over 8000 nmi. I have no doubt in saying that those two won't happen. Plus, they are the ME3's bread-and-butter and they would always beat UA on pricing.


What about SFO-GRU? Would that route be feasible?
 
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ChaseP
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:44 am

With all the talk of United expanding further into South America, why is there not discussion of the airline doing that through IAH? Houston is already the gateway to Mexico, Central and South America. GYE, CTG, BSB, GEO, MDE, CLO and PBM would be interesting markets to fly to.
 
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:01 am

sfojvjets wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Yep, I think airlines will be putting in a lot of capacity to Europe next summer. For example, I think the remaining SFO-Europe (AMS, CDG, ZRH, and DUB) routes will relaunch in NW21 or NS22. A couple of questions regarding the rest of the international network:
1) Do you think we will see any additional LAX or DEN-Europe flights like LAX-FRA or DEN-CDG? LAX and DEN are not big Europe stations but with most TPAC destinations remaining closed, maybe we will see some expansion from those United States hubs.
2) Will United move ahead with launching the seasonal Intl stuff they announced in Fall 2019 that were supposed to start in NS20 but never launched (due to the COVID virus) like EWR-PMO/NCE? I do think UA will launch ORD-ZRH given that ZRH is a partner hub.
3) How are EWR-JNB and IAD-ACC doing? If the most recent launches are doing well, the next Africa routes I see 'em launching could include IAD-CPT/JNB or EWR-CMN.
4) Is the airport in the Maldives (MLE) big enough to support widebodies. If so, do you think SFO/EWR-MLE could be feasible?


I agree with your points considering SFO. I also have to wonder if they will add other markets not necessarily in Europe. Perhaps 2022 could be the year we see SFO-LIM/BOG? Those are sizeable unserved markets and as JayUnited said, South America may be ripe for a big capacity boost.

If we're talking Europe, and United is not afraid to consider lower-yielding markets, there are some key missing pieces from SFO that I'm sure would do well seasonally, namely SFO-MAD/FCO/BCN. MAD has historically been served directly by thrice-weekly IB A332 service, but the route is not bookable for 2022 and I personally believe it's been dropped. FCO is another big one that had been served by Norwegian from OAK. Norwegian was due to continue serving it after they made the switch to SFO, but of course, they collapsed before they could fly SFO-FCO. Alitalia even announced FCO-SFO for summer 2020, of course, before COVID killed everything. Had the pandemic not happened, SFO would have had not one, but two routes to Italy (MXP/FCO) and three carriers between those two routes, which I find astounding. Finally, there's BCN, which is served directly by IB for LEVEL, IAG's long-haul low-cost carrier. I doubt UA wants to compete with that, but SFO-BCN is *very* popular in the summer, with 2 carriers serving it in 2019. Then there's also VIE but personally I believe that OS, rather than UA, would be the one to launch that. A wildcard would be SFO-KEF, but I don't think that would ever happen on UA. Iceair cut it since it required a 19-hour stay on the ground at SFO in order to optimize the flight to arrive before the European bank so they could sell connections, not just O&D.

If UA is not afraid to chase lower-yielding pax, then these are some prime options that come to mind, at least from SFO. Other than that, I think ORD/EWR/IAD will totally explode with TATL traffic + new routes in summer 2022. Should be very fun to see!

+ your point about the Maldives – frankly they are way, way too far to justify direct commercial service. EWR-MLE is ~25 nmi farther than SFO-BLR, for context. And SFO-MLE is well over 8000 nmi. I have no doubt in saying that those two won't happen. Plus, they are the ME3's bread-and-butter and they would always beat UA on pricing.


I'd love to see a lot of that, but remember that SFO is still arguably UA's hub that has been the slowest to come back. I was surprised and disappointed to see not even SFO-CDG come back this summer. Hopefully, we will see SFO-CDG/AMS/DUB/ZRH return in 2022.

I think we'll likely see more Spain and Italy next summer, especially if leisure continues to be more resilient than business traffic, though I would bet we'll see those flights from other hubs.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:41 am

[quote="sfojvjets"]Perhaps 2022 could be the year we see SFO-LIM/BOG? Those are sizeable unserved markets and as JayUnited said, South America may be ripe for a big capacity boost[\quote]
I remember hearing 2019 that Avianca was planning on doing SFO-BOG starting in Summer 2020. Obviously that never happened, but there must have been some demand pre-COVID for it.
 
sfojvjets
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:55 am

intotheair wrote:
I'd love to see a lot of that, but remember that SFO is still arguably UA's hub that has been the slowest to come back. I was surprised and disappointed to see not even SFO-CDG come back this summer. Hopefully, we will see SFO-CDG/AMS/DUB/ZRH return in 2022.

I think we'll likely see more Spain and Italy next summer, especially if leisure continues to be more resilient than business traffic, though I would bet we'll see those flights from other hubs.

You make good points. And it is indeed true that SFO is UA's hub that is slowest to "come back." But from what baseline? TPAC is still absolutely decimated and will be for at least a couple years so SFO has to survive almost wholly on O&D traffic, apart from the few TPAC flights running + Hawaii/Tahiti, as well as some north-south regional flows. Considering that TATL flying from SFO is almost entirely O&D, SFO has come bouncing back. UA is filling planes, no doubt. I was also surprised to see them not bring back SFO-CDG this summer - Air France is flying out with very high LFs as far as I know.

I agree with you about Spain and Italy - those will be big. But yes, it's definitely more probable that UA simply increases connectivity/flights over IAD/ORD/EWR for those destinations. Still seems quite odd to me why IB is cutting SFO-MAD for next summer but still having LEVEL run flights to BCN (even now, they fly here 2x weekly, so demand must be strong in spite of covid).
 
sfojvjets
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:03 am

KLMatSJC wrote:
I remember hearing 2019 that Avianca was planning on doing SFO-BOG starting in Summer 2020. Obviously that never happened, but there must have been some demand pre-COVID for it.

I don't know about SFO-BOG starting summer 2020, but they did state their interests in starting that route (with the A330 I think) many times prior. Would be interesting to see UA launch ORD/IAD/SFO-BOG, but you may be right that it would be AV who would fly those instead.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:11 pm

ChaseP wrote:
With all the talk of United expanding further into South America, why is there not discussion of the airline doing that through IAH? Houston is already the gateway to Mexico, Central and South America. GYE, CTG, BSB, GEO, MDE, CLO and PBM would be interesting markets to fly to.


United didn’t give specifics about what routes they are looking at or from which hubs, so don’t jump to conclusions and think IAH is excluded.

Everyone has their wish list of what they would see in terms of resumption of flights just look at SFO they are hoping UA resumes most of their TATL flights next spring. In fact there were a few SFO employees who participated in yesterday’s event who inquired about SFO-Asia which is how we got concrete information about UA to Asia and although the international team wouldn’t commit to anything concrete from SFO to Europe they did give some hope to SFO that all is not lost to Europe. In addition to SFO, I know employees at DEN, IAH, and believe it or not even LAX are like can we get more to flights Europe.

The way I interpreted Andrew Nocella’s words yesterday was like this ORD/IAD-China will remain suspended for years these will probably be the last routes UA resumes if we ever resume those routes. EWR-China, UA probably won’t resume EWR-PVG for at least 2-3 years, EWR-PEK and EWR-HKG might take longer to come back. LAX-PVG might come back in 2023 depending on the O&D market but don’t bet on it. SFO-China will be the first routes to come back nonstop once China lifts COVID restrictions, SFO-HKG could make a comeback in 2022 or 2023 if COVID entry restrictions are eased. SFO to the rest of Asia will slowly return but don’t look for daily double flights on routes like SFO-SIN or SFO-PVG for quite some time. If UA were looking at SFO-MNL, SFO-BKK, or any other new destinations in Asia those ideas have been tabled probably indefinitely at this point. UA’s routes to Japan I think UA want’s to get those routes back up and running in 2022 and lean on ANA our JV partner to get passengers who are traveling throughout Asia to their final destination via a one-stop at either NRT or HND.

Looking at how extensive United’s Asia network was in 2019 that alone utilized quite a few widebodies, so if you take those widebodies and combine them with the 30 additional widebodies UA has and/or will take delivery of by summer of 2022 I think we are going to see quite a few resumption’s on European routes, and beyond.

I don’t think we will see SFO-GRU because there will be little to no Asian connections feeding that route. However I do think UA will resume most if not all SFO-European routes, I think IAH-Europe make a full comeback as will DEN-LHR. But in addition to that I think UA might launch LAX-TLV, take another shot at IAH-CDG. Depending on how strong leisure demand to Europe is next year UA might look at launching seasonal service ORD-ATH, ORD-BCN, DEN-AMS or other destinations. United did mention they are looking at more nonstop service to Africa (nothing concrete to announce yet) but also other regions across the Atlantic and South America.

Whatever widebodies remain would be allocated to domestic hub to hub routes, Hawaii, and/or destinations like MCO or LAS.
 
tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:23 pm

It seems a little crazy for UA to have that many more widebodies for 2022. I generally agree with prognosis on Asia. I don't see how there is enough TATL demand to handle all those widebodies + 30 more! That's even assuming a full resumption in TATL demand next summer, which is quite optimistic. Especially with TATL business travel.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:08 pm

jayunited wrote:
Don't expect to see any new routes to Asia for a while, don't expect to see Asia bounce back quickly either. United expects Asia to be one of the last regions to lift COVID entry restrictions probably won't see any meaningful movement in Asia until 2023 at the earliest.

I enjoyed that when asked by an employee about new routes Andrew Nocella said with a big grin on his face "expect to see planes going South and planes going across the Atlantic."
GYE, CTG, BSB, GEO, MDE, CLO and PBM would be interesting markets to fly to.

With more MAXes coming on line, I bet a lot of these "do we send a less-than-daily widebody or stretch a narrowbody to its limits?" routes get launched with a MAX.

As a customer experience aside,I flew Bogotá-Houston on a no-screens 737NG a couple years ago and the passengers in front of me spent the whole trip complaining about how terrible United's international service was compared to other airlines because of the lack of screens. Those 737-8s and the refurbished signature cabin narrowbodies as they come online with the exact same IFE as the 767s, 777s, and 787s will be great passenger pleasers on narrowbody international routes.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:12 pm

jayunited wrote:
A few updates from the employee event today

United is still trying to get regulatory approval for IAD-LOS they didn't go into detail about why it is taking so long to get government approval all they would say is our government approval team is working extremely hard to get it done but the process is painfully slow. According to UA our next window of opportunity to launch IAD-LOS would be December but if we are going to launch in December of this year we would need approval to operate the flight within the next 6 weeks. If we don't have approval within that time frame the launch would then have to be pushed back into 2022.

United expects all the PW 777s to return to service, even though there have been some aircraft movements over the past few days no return date has been set, there is still a lot more work to be done with Pratt & Whitney, Boeing, and the FAA. Then the FAA then has to review and sign off on everything so it will be a while before those aircraft are back in service but United does hope to have them all back in service by next summer at the latest.

Don't expect to see any new routes to Asia for a while, don't expect to see Asia bounce back quickly either. United expects Asia to be one of the last regions to lift COVID entry restrictions probably won't see any meaningful movement in Asia until 2023 at the earliest.

With the expectation that the PW 777 will be back in service by summer of 2022 United will have 30 additional widebodies in service by summer of 2022 verses summer of 2019. With that being said the international team is working right now on United's international route network for spring/summer of 2022. There will be some resumptions of suspended international routes especially to Europe but in addition to resuming routes next year the international team is also looking at launching new routes on widebodies to perhaps South America and/or across the Atlantic to Europe. However it's not just Europe, the team is looking at other regions across the Atlantic including but not limited to expanding service from the US to Africa. They were not ready to announce anything today but hopefully soon maybe by the end of Q3 there will be some exciting announcements coming out about new international routes across the Atlantic and/or South America.

EWR is going to be a major headache for United for the next few months because basically that airport now only has 1 usable runway for departures and arrivals. While United has adhered to the FAA's request to not exceed a certain number of flights (United was requested to not exceed 240 daily flights) other carriers (one in particular was mentioned) are not adhering to the FAA's request and continues to add flights. United has now send a request to the FAA requesting they change the guidance from a request to an order because the airport can't handle the capacity and EWR's numbers which continue to tank prove it. Also look for United to start proactively canceling flights out of EWR at least 24 hours in advance during construction and rerouting those customers through other hubs especially if any type of adverse weather is forecast. United has beefed up our daily departures out of IAD (IAD is now up to 230 daily departures) to take some of the pressure off EWR but even that may not be enough so they are asking all other hubs and lines stations to really step up and run as smooth of an operation as they possibly can to minimize the impact to our customers.

The way employees have treated customers and interacted with customers during the pandemic is paying off and customers are noticing employees being a more friendly and going the extra mile to help. United is pleading with employees to continue to be helpful, to listen to the customers, be friendly, smile (even with the mask on) and go the extra step for our customers. Employees are a big piece of the puzzle in changing how customers and the public at large view and feel about United Airlines. Basically what it took to get United to this point in the pandemic is what it will take going forward and more if we want customers to continue to choose to fly United Airlines. Executive leadership does not want to see United Airlines slip back into our old habits our old way of treating customers and they are doing their part by spending the money to improve the customers experience by investing in technology, upgrading the interiors of the aircraft, buying new air planes, upgrading onboard meals, and a whole lot of other stuff they have control over. However, none of that matters if a customer has a bad interaction with an employee, because all the customer will remember and talk about are the employee's actions.

Lastly they made it clear United still has a long way to go before we get back to profitability we have some debt that has to be paid off but we are headed in the right direction financially.


UA is gonna easily be the number 1 Long Haul carrier from the US again next summer. With all these widebodies I’m definitely thinking they’re gonna try some fun routes. DEN-AMS/CDG seems like a no brainer. I’ve been promoting LAX-TLV/FRA for forever now and this might be the right time to finally do it. I’m thinking the boutique type route UA was adding from EWR before Covid is gonna continue and expand. I also feel like Africa was mentioned quite a few times at the town hall. EWR-CMN is pretty much the last one that would make sense to me to add right now. Maybe EWR-CAI as Air Egypt has been trying to get this one going forever now. South Africa stuff could be fun and work decently but the frequencies are gonna have to be played with. I always thought EWR-EZE could work but clearly, it has proven otherwise.

As for the carrier in which whom is not adhering to the FAA’s request, I think we can all assume who you are talking about. B6 has really grown there and is definitely experiencing their own problems. Come into the fall, they will only be bigger as will UA. Does the construction end Oct 1st or the 31st? Because for October, UA will have around 330 flights a day, 90 more then the FAA’s request.

Despite this, both carriers could be successful at EWR without eating too much from the other. Hopefully the competition stays benefiting the consumers. Although UA might not want to attack B6 too much because I’m hearing some bigger competition from more ULCC’s is on the horizon for next year…
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:23 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Does the construction end Oct 1st or the 31st? Because for October, UA will have around 330 flights a day, 90 more then the FAA’s request.

From The Points Guy:
Most of the work will be done at night and on weekends, but a full runway closure is scheduled for the peak summer season, from July 6, 2021, through Oct. 1, 2021.
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 733
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:34 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
jayunited wrote:
A few updates from the employee event today
Does the construction end Oct 1st or the 31st? Because for October, UA will have around 330 flights a day, 90 more then the FAA’s request.



The full runway closure is scheduled to end on 10/1. There will be weekend/nightly closures after that date to continue the work.
https://www.panynj.gov/port-authority/e ... oject.html
 
Pinto
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:30 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:11 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
jayunited wrote:
A few updates from the employee event today

United is still trying to get regulatory approval for IAD-LOS they didn't go into detail about why it is taking so long to get government approval all they would say is our government approval team is working extremely hard to get it done but the process is painfully slow. According to UA our next window of opportunity to launch IAD-LOS would be December but if we are going to launch in December of this year we would need approval to operate the flight within the next 6 weeks. If we don't have approval within that time frame the launch would then have to be pushed back into 2022.

United expects all the PW 777s to return to service, even though there have been some aircraft movements over the past few days no return date has been set, there is still a lot more work to be done with Pratt & Whitney, Boeing, and the FAA. Then the FAA then has to review and sign off on everything so it will be a while before those aircraft are back in service but United does hope to have them all back in service by next summer at the latest.

Don't expect to see any new routes to Asia for a while, don't expect to see Asia bounce back quickly either. United expects Asia to be one of the last regions to lift COVID entry restrictions probably won't see any meaningful movement in Asia until 2023 at the earliest.

With the expectation that the PW 777 will be back in service by summer of 2022 United will have 30 additional widebodies in service by summer of 2022 verses summer of 2019. With that being said the international team is working right now on United's international route network for spring/summer of 2022. There will be some resumptions of suspended international routes especially to Europe but in addition to resuming routes next year the international team is also looking at launching new routes on widebodies to perhaps South America and/or across the Atlantic to Europe. However it's not just Europe, the team is looking at other regions across the Atlantic including but not limited to expanding service from the US to Africa. They were not ready to announce anything today but hopefully soon maybe by the end of Q3 there will be some exciting announcements coming out about new international routes across the Atlantic and/or South America.

EWR is going to be a major headache for United for the next few months because basically that airport now only has 1 usable runway for departures and arrivals. While United has adhered to the FAA's request to not exceed a certain number of flights (United was requested to not exceed 240 daily flights) other carriers (one in particular was mentioned) are not adhering to the FAA's request and continues to add flights. United has now send a request to the FAA requesting they change the guidance from a request to an order because the airport can't handle the capacity and EWR's numbers which continue to tank prove it. Also look for United to start proactively canceling flights out of EWR at least 24 hours in advance during construction and rerouting those customers through other hubs especially if any type of adverse weather is forecast. United has beefed up our daily departures out of IAD (IAD is now up to 230 daily departures) to take some of the pressure off EWR but even that may not be enough so they are asking all other hubs and lines stations to really step up and run as smooth of an operation as they possibly can to minimize the impact to our customers.

The way employees have treated customers and interacted with customers during the pandemic is paying off and customers are noticing employees being a more friendly and going the extra mile to help. United is pleading with employees to continue to be helpful, to listen to the customers, be friendly, smile (even with the mask on) and go the extra step for our customers. Employees are a big piece of the puzzle in changing how customers and the public at large view and feel about United Airlines. Basically what it took to get United to this point in the pandemic is what it will take going forward and more if we want customers to continue to choose to fly United Airlines. Executive leadership does not want to see United Airlines slip back into our old habits our old way of treating customers and they are doing their part by spending the money to improve the customers experience by investing in technology, upgrading the interiors of the aircraft, buying new air planes, upgrading onboard meals, and a whole lot of other stuff they have control over. However, none of that matters if a customer has a bad interaction with an employee, because all the customer will remember and talk about are the employee's actions.

Lastly they made it clear United still has a long way to go before we get back to profitability we have some debt that has to be paid off but we are headed in the right direction financially.


UA is gonna easily be the number 1 Long Haul carrier from the US again next summer. With all these widebodies I’m definitely thinking they’re gonna try some fun routes. DEN-AMS/CDG seems like a no brainer. I’ve been promoting LAX-TLV/FRA for forever now and this might be the right time to finally do it.


In terms of LAX - FRA I would be surprised to see UA add that. Having LH as a JV allows UA to all but fly that on there own metal and it saves them gate space. My understanding is that UA is limited in LAX by gates and I don't see them taking up some to add a route already offered. However they could add LAX - TLV as that would leave and arrive at off peak times.

Back to EWR, I wonder if we would ever see EWR/IAD - DXB/IST. Those seem to be too big holes and with UA having a more competitive product they might be able to trun those at a profit.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:30 pm

jayunited wrote:
ChaseP wrote:
With all the talk of United expanding further into South America, why is there not discussion of the airline doing that through IAH? Houston is already the gateway to Mexico, Central and South America. GYE, CTG, BSB, GEO, MDE, CLO and PBM would be interesting markets to fly to.


United didn’t give specifics about what routes they are looking at or from which hubs, so don’t jump to conclusions and think IAH is excluded.

Everyone has their wish list of what they would see in terms of resumption of flights just look at SFO they are hoping UA resumes most of their TATL flights next spring. In fact there were a few SFO employees who participated in yesterday’s event who inquired about SFO-Asia which is how we got concrete information about UA to Asia and although the international team wouldn’t commit to anything concrete from SFO to Europe they did give some hope to SFO that all is not lost to Europe. In addition to SFO, I know employees at DEN, IAH, and believe it or not even LAX are like can we get more to flights Europe.

The way I interpreted Andrew Nocella’s words yesterday was like this ORD/IAD-China will remain suspended for years these will probably be the last routes UA resumes if we ever resume those routes. EWR-China, UA probably won’t resume EWR-PVG for at least 2-3 years, EWR-PEK and EWR-HKG might take longer to come back. LAX-PVG might come back in 2023 depending on the O&D market but don’t bet on it. SFO-China will be the first routes to come back nonstop once China lifts COVID restrictions, SFO-HKG could make a comeback in 2022 or 2023 if COVID entry restrictions are eased. SFO to the rest of Asia will slowly return but don’t look for daily double flights on routes like SFO-SIN or SFO-PVG for quite some time. If UA were looking at SFO-MNL, SFO-BKK, or any other new destinations in Asia those ideas have been tabled probably indefinitely at this point. UA’s routes to Japan I think UA want’s to get those routes back up and running in 2022 and lean on ANA our JV partner to get passengers who are traveling throughout Asia to their final destination via a one-stop at either NRT or HND.

Looking at how extensive United’s Asia network was in 2019 that alone utilized quite a few widebodies, so if you take those widebodies and combine them with the 30 additional widebodies UA has and/or will take delivery of by summer of 2022 I think we are going to see quite a few resumption’s on European routes, and beyond.

I don’t think we will see SFO-GRU because there will be little to no Asian connections feeding that route. However I do think UA will resume most if not all SFO-European routes, I think IAH-Europe make a full comeback as will DEN-LHR. But in addition to that I think UA might launch LAX-TLV, take another shot at IAH-CDG. Depending on how strong leisure demand to Europe is next year UA might look at launching seasonal service ORD-ATH, ORD-BCN, DEN-AMS or other destinations. United did mention they are looking at more nonstop service to Africa (nothing concrete to announce yet) but also other regions across the Atlantic and South America.

Whatever widebodies remain would be allocated to domestic hub to hub routes, Hawaii, and/or destinations like MCO or LAS.


What about IAH-ZRH? Could that work?
 
jayunited
Posts: 3594
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:47 pm

tphuang wrote:
It seems a little crazy for UA to have that many more widebodies for 2022. I generally agree with prognosis on Asia. I don't see how there is enough TATL demand to handle all those widebodies + 30 more! That's even assuming a full resumption in TATL demand next summer, which is quite optimistic. Especially with TATL business travel.


I agree with your post I think we will see United resume as much TATL as the can, and we will see United try some new stuff (case and point IAD-ATH is working out really well for UA this year as is ORD-KEF).

At the end of the day I think even with the domestic widebody flying in summer of 2022 UA will not have every single widebody in service next summer which isn't a bad thing because there is a lot of work that still needs to be done on the widebody fleet. We still have to complete Polaris/PE installation on the 789s, United hasn't even touched the 764s yet and now since we know for sure United is planning on bringing all the 77As back there are 19 77As in need of a major upgrade. With United announcing we are installing nose to tail PTV's AVOD fleet wide that now has to include the 77As since we are keeping all those frames and those 77As at some point will once again takeover flying some of United longest routes to Hawaii. Hopefully United using this time 2021-2023 wisely and really invests heavily in getting the widebody fleet ready for 2023. I think spring/summer of 2022 will be exciting but I don't see how UA utilizes the entire widebody fleet.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6635
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:00 pm

jayunited wrote:
tphuang wrote:
It seems a little crazy for UA to have that many more widebodies for 2022. I generally agree with prognosis on Asia. I don't see how there is enough TATL demand to handle all those widebodies + 30 more! That's even assuming a full resumption in TATL demand next summer, which is quite optimistic. Especially with TATL business travel.


I agree with your post I think we will see United resume as much TATL as the can, and we will see United try some new stuff (case and point IAD-ATH is working out really well for UA this year as is ORD-KEF).

At the end of the day I think even with the domestic widebody flying in summer of 2022 UA will not have every single widebody in service next summer which isn't a bad thing because there is a lot of work that still needs to be done on the widebody fleet. We still have to complete Polaris/PE installation on the 789s, United hasn't even touched the 764s yet and now since we know for sure United is planning on bringing all the 77As back there are 19 77As in need of a major upgrade. With United announcing we are installing nose to tail PTV's AVOD fleet wide that now has to include the 77As since we are keeping all those frames and those 77As at some point will once again takeover flying some of United longest routes to Hawaii. Hopefully United using this time 2021-2023 wisely and really invests heavily in getting the widebody fleet ready for 2023. I think spring/summer of 2022 will be exciting but I don't see how UA utilizes the entire widebody fleet.


Thanks for your thought. I have a feeling TPAC demand (especially to the Greater China area) will represent a much smaller % of US airlines revenue for many years forward. It'd be interesting to see how UA re-orients its strategy in the event that TPAC demand as a % of overall demand is 50% of what it was in 2019 going forward. A lot of TPAC worked for UA due to SFO and EWR being really great TPAC hubs on both coasts. For example, there is just a lot of VFR demand out of bay area to PVG and a lot of VFR demand out of New Jersey for Delhi. On the flip side, you really can't make SFO into a TATL or Latam hub. it seems like an obvious answer is to shift more widebody flying to IAH, but I don't IAH will ever have the level of deep south america demand that MIA or even NYC have. Something like A321NEO or even XLR may end up being a great aircraft for IAH to open up a lot of thin market.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14498
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:06 pm

jayunited wrote:
ChaseP wrote:
With all the talk of United expanding further into South America, why is there not discussion of the airline doing that through IAH? Houston is already the gateway to Mexico, Central and South America. GYE, CTG, BSB, GEO, MDE, CLO and PBM would be interesting markets to fly to.


United didn’t give specifics about what routes they are looking at or from which hubs, so don’t jump to conclusions and think IAH is excluded.

Everyone has their wish list of what they would see in terms of resumption of flights just look at SFO they are hoping UA resumes most of their TATL flights next spring. In fact there were a few SFO employees who participated in yesterday’s event who inquired about SFO-Asia which is how we got concrete information about UA to Asia and although the international team wouldn’t commit to anything concrete from SFO to Europe they did give some hope to SFO that all is not lost to Europe. In addition to SFO, I know employees at DEN, IAH, and believe it or not even LAX are like can we get more to flights Europe.

The way I interpreted Andrew Nocella’s words yesterday was like this ORD/IAD-China will remain suspended for years these will probably be the last routes UA resumes if we ever resume those routes. EWR-China, UA probably won’t resume EWR-PVG for at least 2-3 years, EWR-PEK and EWR-HKG might take longer to come back. LAX-PVG might come back in 2023 depending on the O&D market but don’t bet on it. SFO-China will be the first routes to come back nonstop once China lifts COVID restrictions, SFO-HKG could make a comeback in 2022 or 2023 if COVID entry restrictions are eased. SFO to the rest of Asia will slowly return but don’t look for daily double flights on routes like SFO-SIN or SFO-PVG for quite some time. If UA were looking at SFO-MNL, SFO-BKK, or any other new destinations in Asia those ideas have been tabled probably indefinitely at this point. UA’s routes to Japan I think UA want’s to get those routes back up and running in 2022 and lean on ANA our JV partner to get passengers who are traveling throughout Asia to their final destination via a one-stop at either NRT or HND.

Looking at how extensive United’s Asia network was in 2019 that alone utilized quite a few widebodies, so if you take those widebodies and combine them with the 30 additional widebodies UA has and/or will take delivery of by summer of 2022 I think we are going to see quite a few resumption’s on European routes, and beyond.

I don’t think we will see SFO-GRU because there will be little to no Asian connections feeding that route. However I do think UA will resume most if not all SFO-European routes, I think IAH-Europe make a full comeback as will DEN-LHR. But in addition to that I think UA might launch LAX-TLV, take another shot at IAH-CDG. Depending on how strong leisure demand to Europe is next year UA might look at launching seasonal service ORD-ATH, ORD-BCN, DEN-AMS or other destinations. United did mention they are looking at more nonstop service to Africa (nothing concrete to announce yet) but also other regions across the Atlantic and South America.

Whatever widebodies remain would be allocated to domestic hub to hub routes, Hawaii, and/or destinations like MCO or LAS.


I agree 100% about IAH-CDG, I would also throw in IAH-FCO which was long promised during the Continental years especially with their partnership with Alitalia in the early -mid 1990s..I think expanding trans-Atlantic would be more of filling in new routes to existing stations (IAH-CDG, IAH-FCO, LAX-TLV etc..).
 
sxf24
Posts: 1255
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:06 pm

cosyr wrote:
intotheair wrote:
cosyr wrote:
Even if true, a few weeks would be a very quick turnaround.


That's what I thought, but maybe they'd just quickly repaint and put in new furniture. UA is basically on borrowed time at JFK, and T7 is still set to be demolished in the not-too-distant future, so maybe they couldn't wait to do a full renovation...

That would make sense, because even though JFK is a relatively small operation, it is all premium service, so it is a bit of a competitive disadvantage to not offer a club (except against B6. I still can't believe they haven't created a Mint Lounge)


The AS Lounge is reopened and doing good business due to the lack of other lounge options at JFK.

If UA wants a club, they should discuss taking over the Concorde Room from BA. I’d expect it to not reopen.
 
na
Posts: 9865
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:37 pm

What's going to happen to the PW-powered 777 fleet? With the engine type being troublesome and the subfleet grounded for some time (for the most part at least) and the planes being very much advanced in age for a respectable major airline is there any news if, and when those are being retired for good? I any case only scrappers would take 20 year + old 777s these days.
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 733
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:45 pm

na wrote:
What's going to happen to the PW-powered 777 fleet? With the engine type being troublesome and the subfleet grounded for some time (for the most part at least) and the planes being very much advanced in age for a respectable major airline is there any news if, and when those are being retired for good? I any case only scrappers would take 20 year + old 777s these days.

I suspect they'll be back...
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3337
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:56 pm

na wrote:
What's going to happen to the PW-powered 777 fleet? With the engine type being troublesome and the subfleet grounded for some time (for the most part at least) and the planes being very much advanced in age for a respectable major airline is there any news if, and when those are being retired for good? I any case only scrappers would take 20 year + old 777s these days.


Literally look up about 12 posts for an answer. Also, "very much advanced in age for a respectable major airline" is a ridiculous statement and shows a complete misunderstanding of the US3. The US3 have massive fleets and use older aircraft effectively and efficiently.
 
codc10
Posts: 3201
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:30 pm

na wrote:
What's going to happen to the PW-powered 777 fleet? With the engine type being troublesome and the subfleet grounded for some time (for the most part at least) and the planes being very much advanced in age for a respectable major airline is there any news if, and when those are being retired for good? I any case only scrappers would take 20 year + old 777s these days.


As of now, all coming back. During the call, executives talked about the network need for a high-density people-mover between hubs and to Hawaii. Lacking that, this summer in particular, has negatively impacted the operation and United's ability to handle large volumes of passengers on key routes.

These airplanes are fully-depreciated and hold little value beyond scrap, so unless they become too costly to maintain, I would expect United to have them back in service until at least their respective 30th birthdays.
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