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sfojvjets
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:00 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:17 am

I think UA is doing what it can Florida-wise. They are evidently playing around with gauge/capacity, since they can't exactly pull new routes, or bigger market share, straight out of a hat. For one, as of late, I've noticed 752 service on SFO-MCO. I may be wrong, but historically, I don't think that's happened before. Furthermore, it seems they've put the 77w on ORD-MCO as well.

This is kind of reflected throughout their network, for example, putting 77Ws to Hawaii, even on 4.5 hour flights to the West Coast. I'm sure there are other examples too but these are what are coming to my head right now. Either way, UA is doing what it can for the time being. I'm also sure we'll see them swamp Florida with higher-density MAX 10s flying in from all over, which slots in nicely with their commitment to expanding gauge via United Next.
 
redrooster3
Posts: 391
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:11 pm

Aircraft #0127 finally scheduled to go in for new paint as flight 2746 IAH-AMA August 2nd. She desperately needed a new paint job.
 
len90
Posts: 1174
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:03 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:44 am

redrooster3 wrote:
Aircraft #0127 finally scheduled to go in for new paint as flight 2746 IAH-AMA August 2nd. She desperately needed a new paint job.

FINALLY!!! Makes sense though as I think they will finally have some slack in that fleet. #0102 (Her Art NY) returned to service around two weeks ago and #0101 should be coming out of ILN within the next few days. Did a test flight last week.

Think they also got another 764 back into service this weekend after coming out of ILN. Nice to see all of these birds coming out of hibernation.
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 612
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:39 am

United sticking to high-end leisure is a very smart move, and aligns well with their recent premium push across the board. Why pander to Disney when folks pay top dollar to fly directly to places like Moab and ski mountains? It is a pretty sophisticated way to adapt to the environment.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 596
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:29 am

When looking at fare details, you can see the dollars allocated per segment. I’m curious to hear from the airline insiders if that is apportioned out to favor mainline vs contracted regional carrier? Is it mileage based?
We always point to yield, but it would not take much manipulation of the fare allocation to bump or lower a yield on a specific flight segment.
 
sfojvjets
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:00 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:02 am

redrooster3 wrote:
Aircraft #0127 finally scheduled to go in for new paint as flight 2746 IAH-AMA August 2nd. She desperately needed a new paint job.

Awesome. Should be the first non-Her Art Here 752 in the new liv, am I right?
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6430
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:36 am

Midwestindy wrote:
x1234 wrote:


It's a market UA has actively ignored for many years, and it's cost them business from passengers not in IAD, IAH, EWR, or ORD who want to fly nonstop or have an easy connection to vacation.


Does UA have to be everything to everyone though? UA does just fine with out an SE hub or a massive Florida presence. Every airline has its weakness. DL has a small presence in Texas, the Southwest and the Southern Plains. AA is weaker in the Mountain West outside the Southwest. UA is weaker in the Southeast. They all seem to manage fine and play to their strengths.
Last edited by LAXdude1023 on Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6430
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:41 am

tphuang wrote:

I don't see how IAD can ever compete with ATL or CLT to Florida due to its high costs and not having as many gates. It has a lot of transcon and TATL demand from a top 5 domestic market. I think UA should add more flights to Caribbean from IAD. The number of year round destinations to Latin America from IAD is pretty small. People on east coast don't want to connect at IAH. There should also be a lot of natural demand there from DC and Northern Virginia.


I dont know that is feasible.

UA already serves what it needs to in the Caribbean from EWR. As for Latin America, IAD was always a weaker link than IAH or EWR. IAD-GRU was the worst preforming Brazil route for UA pre-pandemic. Most of what UA has added to IAD was ethnic travel based (SAL and GUA). Same with LAX and EWR.

Thats not to say they cant add a few more spots from IAD but I dont see what it helps unless the local market can support it.
 
EssentialBusDC
Posts: 210
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:08 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I don't see how IAD can ever compete with ATL or CLT to Florida due to its high costs and not having as many gates. It has a lot of transcon and TATL demand from a top 5 domestic market. I think UA should add more flights to Caribbean from IAD. The number of year round destinations to Latin America from IAD is pretty small. People on east coast don't want to connect at IAH. There should also be a lot of natural demand there from DC and Northern Virginia.


I dont know that is feasible.

UA already serves what it needs to in the Caribbean from EWR. As for Latin America, IAD was always a weaker link than IAH or EWR. IAD-GRU was the worst preforming Brazil route for UA pre-pandemic. Most of what UA has added to IAD was ethnic travel based (SAL and GUA). Same with LAX and EWR.

Thats not to say they cant add a few more spots from IAD but I dont see what it helps unless the local market can support it.


One problem with IAD, in addition to local market size, is timing of the flights. In order to get flights back into Dulles for the 5-6pm primary Bank, that means the flights departing IAD need to leave early enough in the morning which does limit connections to only the first flight of the day from close outstations. And if they cant make the primary bank then its the 10pm bank to get home. So not ideal due to lack of frequency. And connections is what would make some of the smaller Carribbean destinations beyond what United traditionally serves work.
 
codc10
Posts: 3200
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:21 pm

EssentialBusDC wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I don't see how IAD can ever compete with ATL or CLT to Florida due to its high costs and not having as many gates. It has a lot of transcon and TATL demand from a top 5 domestic market. I think UA should add more flights to Caribbean from IAD. The number of year round destinations to Latin America from IAD is pretty small. People on east coast don't want to connect at IAH. There should also be a lot of natural demand there from DC and Northern Virginia.


I dont know that is feasible.

UA already serves what it needs to in the Caribbean from EWR. As for Latin America, IAD was always a weaker link than IAH or EWR. IAD-GRU was the worst preforming Brazil route for UA pre-pandemic. Most of what UA has added to IAD was ethnic travel based (SAL and GUA). Same with LAX and EWR.

Thats not to say they cant add a few more spots from IAD but I dont see what it helps unless the local market can support it.


One problem with IAD, in addition to local market size, is timing of the flights. In order to get flights back into Dulles for the 5-6pm primary Bank, that means the flights departing IAD need to leave early enough in the morning which does limit connections to only the first flight of the day from close outstations. And if they cant make the primary bank then its the 10pm bank to get home. So not ideal due to lack of frequency. And connections is what would make some of the smaller Carribbean destinations beyond what United traditionally serves work.


Weak connectivity and uncompetitive schedules for domestic travel in non-hub markets is a problem that has plagued United since the early aughts. Continental substantially never had it, so this is a long-term network issue United has never really corrected since the merger
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6430
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:29 pm

EssentialBusDC wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I don't see how IAD can ever compete with ATL or CLT to Florida due to its high costs and not having as many gates. It has a lot of transcon and TATL demand from a top 5 domestic market. I think UA should add more flights to Caribbean from IAD. The number of year round destinations to Latin America from IAD is pretty small. People on east coast don't want to connect at IAH. There should also be a lot of natural demand there from DC and Northern Virginia.


I dont know that is feasible.

UA already serves what it needs to in the Caribbean from EWR. As for Latin America, IAD was always a weaker link than IAH or EWR. IAD-GRU was the worst preforming Brazil route for UA pre-pandemic. Most of what UA has added to IAD was ethnic travel based (SAL and GUA). Same with LAX and EWR.

Thats not to say they cant add a few more spots from IAD but I dont see what it helps unless the local market can support it.


One problem with IAD, in addition to local market size, is timing of the flights. In order to get flights back into Dulles for the 5-6pm primary Bank, that means the flights departing IAD need to leave early enough in the morning which does limit connections to only the first flight of the day from close outstations. And if they cant make the primary bank then its the 10pm bank to get home. So not ideal due to lack of frequency. And connections is what would make some of the smaller Carribbean destinations beyond what United traditionally serves work.


I’m a huge proponent of UA doing more with IAD. I just don’t see that having anything to do with Latin America unless the DC market supports it on its own (SAL, GUA, etc.). I think some added points in the Caribbean is good but what really needs to happen is a beef up of the domestic network.
 
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cosyr
Posts: 1631
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:40 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
EssentialBusDC wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:

I dont know that is feasible.

UA already serves what it needs to in the Caribbean from EWR. As for Latin America, IAD was always a weaker link than IAH or EWR. IAD-GRU was the worst preforming Brazil route for UA pre-pandemic. Most of what UA has added to IAD was ethnic travel based (SAL and GUA). Same with LAX and EWR.

Thats not to say they cant add a few more spots from IAD but I dont see what it helps unless the local market can support it.


One problem with IAD, in addition to local market size, is timing of the flights. In order to get flights back into Dulles for the 5-6pm primary Bank, that means the flights departing IAD need to leave early enough in the morning which does limit connections to only the first flight of the day from close outstations. And if they cant make the primary bank then its the 10pm bank to get home. So not ideal due to lack of frequency. And connections is what would make some of the smaller Carribbean destinations beyond what United traditionally serves work.


I’m a huge proponent of UA doing more with IAD. I just don’t see that having anything to do with Latin America unless the DC market supports it on its own (SAL, GUA, etc.). I think some added points in the Caribbean is good but what really needs to happen is a beef up of the domestic network.

I wish there was some more concrete plans about the recently proposed new concourse, and how that will fit into the longterm Master Plan.
 
Cmac787
Posts: 224
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:42 pm

Just saw 127 today at IAD. Man it looks rough.

redrooster3 wrote:
Aircraft #0127 finally scheduled to go in for new paint as flight 2746 IAH-AMA August 2nd. She desperately needed a new paint job.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6430
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:48 pm

Here is a list of what new services UA Express will be getting from the latest SCASD:

DEN-DLH
DEN-GRK
DEN-HOB
DEN-RDD

IAD-BGM
IAD-HTS
IAD-IPT
IAD-MOB
IAD-PHF

IAH-CAK
IAH-TXK

ORD-HTS
ORD-IPT
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:20 pm

There is more information starting to leak out about what United is looking at doing with pilot bases later this year into next year, some of this I think we already knew.

Later this year the 756 bases at both LAX and SFO will reopen earlier than expected (this should mean more 757s back in service which is a good thing) and perhaps the return of lie flat seating on SFO-BOS-SFO route.

Starting in 2022 the 777 pilots will only be based out of SFO, IAH, EWR, and DCA. The plan for now calls for SFO being the largest 777 pilot base followed by EWR, IAH then finally DCA. United is still planning on returning the 77As to the Hawaii market at some point in 2022, it will be interesting to see the crew parring for flights like ORD-HNL, ORD-OGG, DEN-HNL, DEN-OGG, and LAX-HNL which are all expected to shift back to 77As at some point in 2022 once those frames return to service.

The 787s will have a pilot base all 7 domestic hubs. United for now is still planning on making SFO the largest 787 pilot based with ORD showing as the second largest 787 base in 2022. Looking at the 787 pilot base numbers it would appear as though both DEN and IAH's 787 bases will be slightly larger than they were pre-pandemic so perhaps that is some insight into future international flights from those hubs?? Who knows it is anyone's guess what a slight increase in bases number could mean.

The 767s are crewed from the 756 pilot base. The largest 756 base of course will be EWR, followed by DCA, ORD, then IAH. LAX, SFO, and DEN will all having the same number of 756 pilots based there at those hubs, and United intends to keep all 764s based out of EWR and IAD for 2022.

With United expecting SFO-Asia to basically remain flat for 2022 it will be interesting to see if SFO in 2022 maintains the largest 777 and 787 pilot bases (which is the plan now), or if UA reduces SFO's numbers while increasing base numbers at other hubs for potential international or even domestic flying.

GUM's 737 pilot base will see it numbers inch higher as United in 2022 looks to begin restoring flights out of GUM that were suspended as a result of the pandemic.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4497
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:49 pm

United Airlines expanding their service into the State of Missouri.

Through the EAS Program, DOT has selected SkyWest Airlines to operate 2 Daily Flights on the CRJ200 to Chicago from TBN Airport-Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri as United Express.

Currently, Contour Airlines is flying TBN-STL.

This will make it the 7th Missouri City United will be serving.

United currently serves MCI, STL, JLN, SGF, COU, CGI for Missouri.

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -1167-0157

Alex
 
len90
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:37 am

sfojvjets wrote:
redrooster3 wrote:
Aircraft #0127 finally scheduled to go in for new paint as flight 2746 IAH-AMA August 2nd. She desperately needed a new paint job.

Awesome. Should be the first non-Her Art Here 752 in the new liv, am I right?

Correct.

Third 757 to be repainted and first to be in the regular Evo-blue. 753 and 764 are the last remaining fleets with nothing in the new scheme.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6630
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:44 am

jayunited wrote:
There is more information starting to leak out about what United is looking at doing with pilot bases later this year into next year, some of this I think we already knew.

Later this year the 756 bases at both LAX and SFO will reopen earlier than expected (this should mean more 757s back in service which is a good thing) and perhaps the return of lie flat seating on SFO-BOS-SFO route.

Starting in 2022 the 777 pilots will only be based out of SFO, IAH, EWR, and DCA. The plan for now calls for SFO being the largest 777 pilot base followed by EWR, IAH then finally DCA. United is still planning on returning the 77As to the Hawaii market at some point in 2022, it will be interesting to see the crew parring for flights like ORD-HNL, ORD-OGG, DEN-HNL, DEN-OGG, and LAX-HNL which are all expected to shift back to 77As at some point in 2022 once those frames return to service.

The 787s will have a pilot base all 7 domestic hubs. United for now is still planning on making SFO the largest 787 pilot based with ORD showing as the second largest 787 base in 2022. Looking at the 787 pilot base numbers it would appear as though both DEN and IAH's 787 bases will be slightly larger than they were pre-pandemic so perhaps that is some insight into future international flights from those hubs?? Who knows it is anyone's guess what a slight increase in bases number could mean.

The 767s are crewed from the 756 pilot base. The largest 756 base of course will be EWR, followed by DCA, ORD, then IAH. LAX, SFO, and DEN will all having the same number of 756 pilots based there at those hubs, and United intends to keep all 764s based out of EWR and IAD for 2022.

With United expecting SFO-Asia to basically remain flat for 2022 it will be interesting to see if SFO in 2022 maintains the largest 777 and 787 pilot bases (which is the plan now), or if UA reduces SFO's numbers while increasing base numbers at other hubs for potential international or even domestic flying.

GUM's 737 pilot base will see it numbers inch higher as United in 2022 looks to begin restoring flights out of GUM that were suspended as a result of the pandemic.


Interesting, I'd expect EWR to have larger 787 base than SFO given the continued TPAC weakness.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 596
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:05 am

What role, if any, can IAD play in the route network over next 12-24 months? It always seems underutilized to me.
 
TrafficCop
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:00 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:36 am

len90 wrote:
sfojvjets wrote:
redrooster3 wrote:
Aircraft #0127 finally scheduled to go in for new paint as flight 2746 IAH-AMA August 2nd. She desperately needed a new paint job.

Awesome. Should be the first non-Her Art Here 752 in the new liv, am I right?

Correct.

Third 757 to be repainted and first to be in the regular Evo-blue. 753 and 764 are the last remaining fleets with nothing in the new scheme.


Don’t believe any of the 788’s have been painted yet either. Could be wrong though.
 
ILikeTrains
Posts: 106
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:29 am

jayunited wrote:
There is more information starting to leak out about what United is looking at doing with pilot bases later this year into next year, some of this I think we already knew.

Later this year the 756 bases at both LAX and SFO will reopen earlier than expected (this should mean more 757s back in service which is a good thing) and perhaps the return of lie flat seating on SFO-BOS-SFO route.

Starting in 2022 the 777 pilots will only be based out of SFO, IAH, EWR, and DCA. The plan for now calls for SFO being the largest 777 pilot base followed by EWR, IAH then finally DCA. United is still planning on returning the 77As to the Hawaii market at some point in 2022, it will be interesting to see the crew parring for flights like ORD-HNL, ORD-OGG, DEN-HNL, DEN-OGG, and LAX-HNL which are all expected to shift back to 77As at some point in 2022 once those frames return to service.

The 787s will have a pilot base all 7 domestic hubs. United for now is still planning on making SFO the largest 787 pilot based with ORD showing as the second largest 787 base in 2022. Looking at the 787 pilot base numbers it would appear as though both DEN and IAH's 787 bases will be slightly larger than they were pre-pandemic so perhaps that is some insight into future international flights from those hubs?? Who knows it is anyone's guess what a slight increase in bases number could mean.

The 767s are crewed from the 756 pilot base. The largest 756 base of course will be EWR, followed by DCA, ORD, then IAH. LAX, SFO, and DEN will all having the same number of 756 pilots based there at those hubs, and United intends to keep all 764s based out of EWR and IAD for 2022.

With United expecting SFO-Asia to basically remain flat for 2022 it will be interesting to see if SFO in 2022 maintains the largest 777 and 787 pilot bases (which is the plan now), or if UA reduces SFO's numbers while increasing base numbers at other hubs for potential international or even domestic flying.

GUM's 737 pilot base will see it numbers inch higher as United in 2022 looks to begin restoring flights out of GUM that were suspended as a result of the pandemic.


It looks like ORD is losing a lot of widebody capacity based on this, or am I interpreting this wrong?
 
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KLMatSJC
Posts: 868
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:09 am

TrafficCop wrote:
len90 wrote:
sfojvjets wrote:
Awesome. Should be the first non-Her Art Here 752 in the new liv, am I right?

Correct.

Third 757 to be repainted and first to be in the regular Evo-blue. 753 and 764 are the last remaining fleets with nothing in the new scheme.


Don’t believe any of the 788’s have been painted yet either. Could be wrong though.

Yup, you're right.

Mainline: non-ER 739, 753, 764, 788.
Express: ERJ-170, ERJ-145LR
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 303
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:00 am

UAX Update:

E145XR:
N24103 ferried ISO for conformity checks prior to transfer to CommutAir
N10156 entered revenue service with CommutAir

CR5:
N519LR exited AMA in EvoBlu livery, at STL awaiting service entry
 
jayunited
Posts: 3590
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:20 am

ILikeTrains wrote:
It looks like ORD is losing a lot of widebody capacity based on this, or am I interpreting this wrong?


The post covers the pilot bases and where United plans to base pilots for each specific widebody fleet type, not where the aircraft themselves will fly from. To the best of my knowledge since the merger ORD has never had the largest pilot base for any widebody fleet type. In fact since the closure of ORD's 744 pilot base ORD has been a 756 and 777 pilot base only, the 787 base opened during the pandemic but ORD will loose its 777 pilot base, however that doesn't mean ORD will not see any 777 widebody aircraft cycling through the hub. Although the 788 will once again operate ORD-HNL route this coming fall taking over from the 77W currently on the route we know the 77A will return to both ORD-HNL and ORD-OGG. Once the 77As return to service we know United will resume flying 77As on hub to hub routes like SFO-ORD-SFO, DEN-ORD-SFO, and perhaps LAX-ORD-LAX. So the closure of the base doesn't mean the complete removal of a particular aircraft type from a hub and on hub to hub route it is easy for United to cover 777 flying without an ORD or DEN 777 pilot base you can have a SFO based pilot operate for example SFO-DEN-ORD (layover) ORD-SFO (end of trip). On d some of the longer routes like ORD-Hawaii and DEN-Hawaii crew scheduling will have to use pilots from other bases to cover those routes. So for example ORD-HNL, an example of a crew pairing might be something like this SFO-HNL(layover), HNL-ORD (layover), ORD-SFO (end of trip), or IAH-HNL (layover), HNL-ORD (layover), ORD-HNL (layover), HNL-IAH (end of trip).

The issue I have with this is with the closure of the 777 base at ORD if there is a 6 or 7 hour maintenance delay on ORD-HNL or ORD-OGG (it has happened in the past) now UA either has to cancel the flight or tech stop at SFO for a complete crew change because the original crew on 6 or 7 hour delay would not be legal to operate a nearly 9 hour flight to Hawaii and crew scheduling has lost the ability to recrew the flight with ORD based pilots.
 
Okcflyer
Posts: 840
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 11:10 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:28 pm

jayunited wrote:
ILikeTrains wrote:
It looks like ORD is losing a lot of widebody capacity based on this, or am I interpreting this wrong?


The post covers the pilot bases and where United plans to base pilots for each specific widebody fleet type, not where the aircraft themselves will fly from. To the best of my knowledge since the merger ORD has never had the largest pilot base for any widebody fleet type. In fact since the closure of ORD's 744 pilot base ORD has been a 756 and 777 pilot base only, the 787 base opened during the pandemic but ORD will loose its 777 pilot base, however that doesn't mean ORD will not see any 777 widebody aircraft cycling through the hub. Although the 788 will once again operate ORD-HNL route this coming fall taking over from the 77W currently on the route we know the 77A will return to both ORD-HNL and ORD-OGG. Once the 77As return to service we know United will resume flying 77As on hub to hub routes like SFO-ORD-SFO, DEN-ORD-SFO, and perhaps LAX-ORD-LAX. So the closure of the base doesn't mean the complete removal of a particular aircraft type from a hub and on hub to hub route it is easy for United to cover 777 flying without an ORD or DEN 777 pilot base you can have a SFO based pilot operate for example SFO-DEN-ORD (layover) ORD-SFO (end of trip). On d some of the longer routes like ORD-Hawaii and DEN-Hawaii crew scheduling will have to use pilots from other bases to cover those routes. So for example ORD-HNL, an example of a crew pairing might be something like this SFO-HNL(layover), HNL-ORD (layover), ORD-SFO (end of trip), or IAH-HNL (layover), HNL-ORD (layover), ORD-HNL (layover), HNL-IAH (end of trip).

The issue I have with this is with the closure of the 777 base at ORD if there is a 6 or 7 hour maintenance delay on ORD-HNL or ORD-OGG (it has happened in the past) now UA either has to cancel the flight or tech stop at SFO for a complete crew change because the original crew on 6 or 7 hour delay would not be legal to operate a nearly 9 hour flight to Hawaii and crew scheduling has lost the ability to recrew the flight with ORD based pilots.


While I agree its most probable the 77A’s return, I wouldn’t be surprised if ORD-Hawaii went to either 78J (utilization improver) or 764 (double hub skip).
 
Golfmikey
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:41 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:57 pm

772:
N76021 Expected to depart XMN on 7/31 as UA2701

I wonder if the last GE 777 will head over to bring that whole fleet back in service.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5650
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:08 pm

jayunited wrote:
There is more information starting to leak out about what United is looking at doing with pilot bases later this year into next year, some of this I think we already knew.
.


Minor matter, but is there still a CLE 737 base?
 
ScorpioMC3
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:52 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:41 pm

masseybrown wrote:
jayunited wrote:
There is more information starting to leak out about what United is looking at doing with pilot bases later this year into next year, some of this I think we already knew.
.


Minor matter, but is there still a CLE 737 base?


Yes, albeit a small one.
 
ScorpioMC3
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:52 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:51 pm

jayunited wrote:
ILikeTrains wrote:
It looks like ORD is losing a lot of widebody capacity based on this, or am I interpreting this wrong?


The issue I have with this is with the closure of the 777 base at ORD if there is a 6 or 7 hour maintenance delay on ORD-HNL or ORD-OGG (it has happened in the past) now UA either has to cancel the flight or tech stop at SFO for a complete crew change because the original crew on 6 or 7 hour delay would not be legal to operate a nearly 9 hour flight to Hawaii and crew scheduling has lost the ability to recrew the flight with ORD based pilots.


Ugh this right here. It's already an issue when a 757/767 crew goes over duty in LAX or SFO...it'll be nice to have those bases back (although there was slim staffing there even before COVID). I think 777 issues in ORD will be "solved" with just what you said- a tech stop in SFO for a crew change. 3 pilots on a 4 hour flight gives us a lot of duty time to play with. My biggest concern is if a Captain goes out sick or fatigue in ORD...
 
mah584jr
Posts: 435
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:35 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:03 pm

Given the resumption of service by DL, United's ties with Air Canada, and Canada's plans to open up more to Americans on 9 August, has there been any talk about United resuming more flights to Canada in the near future?
 
AC4500
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:41 pm

sldispatcher wrote:
What role, if any, can IAD play in the route network over next 12-24 months? It always seems underutilized to me.

To me, it seems like there should be more transcon routes out of IAD. Not necessarily just new routes, but increased frequencies on existing routes as well.
 
IFLYUA767
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 11:42 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:40 pm

It looks like they are still planning to start BOS-LHR. They just haven’t set a date yet.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/unite ... feedburner
 
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chrisnh
Posts: 4170
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:10 pm

IFLYUA767 wrote:
It looks like they are still planning to start BOS-LHR. They just haven’t set a date yet.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/unite ... feedburner


Only a hunch on my part, but it seems as though it makes sense for them to start this in March 2022 rather than try to shoehorn it in sometime this year.
 
IFLYUA767
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 11:42 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:58 pm

chrisnh wrote:
IFLYUA767 wrote:
It looks like they are still planning to start BOS-LHR. They just haven’t set a date yet.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/unite ... feedburner


Only a hunch on my part, but it seems as though it makes sense for them to start this in March 2022 rather than try to shoehorn it in sometime this year.


I feel like March would make a lot more sense. The UK seems kind of unpredictable. I still wonder what made UA want to start BOS-LHR. Some people say that it was to hit back at B6. If that’s the case then I wonder if UA has thought about JFK-LHR because seems like that would really be hitting back at B6.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3336
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:01 am

IFLYUA767 wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
IFLYUA767 wrote:
It looks like they are still planning to start BOS-LHR. They just haven’t set a date yet.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/unite ... feedburner


Only a hunch on my part, but it seems as though it makes sense for them to start this in March 2022 rather than try to shoehorn it in sometime this year.


I feel like March would make a lot more sense. The UK seems kind of unpredictable. I still wonder what made UA want to start BOS-LHR. Some people say that it was to hit back at B6. If that’s the case then I wonder if UA has thought about JFK-LHR because seems like that would really be hitting back at B6.


UA's BOS-LHR is a way to hit back at JetBlue, but also fill a gap in the LHR network for UA (moreso than JFK that is mostly covered by EWR). BOS is likely to generate more new UA passengers versus just moving them from other flights. I am surprised, however, we haven't seen a flight shift from EWR to JFK though for that reason.
 
len90
Posts: 1174
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:03 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:40 am

KLMatSJC wrote:
TrafficCop wrote:
len90 wrote:
Correct.

Third 757 to be repainted and first to be in the regular Evo-blue. 753 and 764 are the last remaining fleets with nothing in the new scheme.


Don’t believe any of the 788’s have been painted yet either. Could be wrong though.

Yup, you're right.

Mainline: non-ER 739, 753, 764, 788.
Express: ERJ-170, ERJ-145LR


That is correct. I totally forget about the 788 as I barely ever see them being that I live near EWR.

As for the 737 non ER; a part of me wonders if those 20 year old frames are actually done for good with UA. With the max fully in service and nearly all the ER 900s back, United right now is operating a fleet comparable in size for the 170-180 passenger capacity. We have seen every other fleet type emerge from hibernation.
 
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itripreport
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:44 am

len90 wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
TrafficCop wrote:

Don’t believe any of the 788’s have been painted yet either. Could be wrong though.

Yup, you're right.

Mainline: non-ER 739, 753, 764, 788.
Express: ERJ-170, ERJ-145LR


That is correct. I totally forget about the 788 as I barely ever see them being that I live near EWR.

As for the 737 non ER; a part of me wonders if those 20 year old frames are actually done for good with UA. With the max fully in service and nearly all the ER 900s back, United right now is operating a fleet comparable in size for the 170-180 passenger capacity. We have seen every other fleet type emerge from hibernation.


I believe those are completely done for, their massive range limitation meant United was forced to keep them on shorter sectors out of IAH, I highly doubt we'll see those making a comeback, as they'd end up being another subfleet for the carrier.
 
IFLYUA767
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 11:42 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:36 am

jbs2886 wrote:
IFLYUA767 wrote:
chrisnh wrote:

Only a hunch on my part, but it seems as though it makes sense for them to start this in March 2022 rather than try to shoehorn it in sometime this year.


I feel like March would make a lot more sense. The UK seems kind of unpredictable. I still wonder what made UA want to start BOS-LHR. Some people say that it was to hit back at B6. If that’s the case then I wonder if UA has thought about JFK-LHR because seems like that would really be hitting back at B6.


UA's BOS-LHR is a way to hit back at JetBlue, but also fill a gap in the LHR network for UA (moreso than JFK that is mostly covered by EWR). BOS is likely to generate more new UA passengers versus just moving them from other flights. I am surprised, however, we haven't seen a flight shift from EWR to JFK though for that reason.


I’m curious as to how BOS-LHR will generate more passengers rather than moving from other flights. On the matter of JFK-LHR, I think that if they ever launched that they should move two LHR flights from EWR to JFK. This would obviously depend on whether UA can get slots.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3336
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:28 am

IFLYUA767 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
IFLYUA767 wrote:

I feel like March would make a lot more sense. The UK seems kind of unpredictable. I still wonder what made UA want to start BOS-LHR. Some people say that it was to hit back at B6. If that’s the case then I wonder if UA has thought about JFK-LHR because seems like that would really be hitting back at B6.


UA's BOS-LHR is a way to hit back at JetBlue, but also fill a gap in the LHR network for UA (moreso than JFK that is mostly covered by EWR). BOS is likely to generate more new UA passengers versus just moving them from other flights. I am surprised, however, we haven't seen a flight shift from EWR to JFK though for that reason.


I’m curious as to how BOS-LHR will generate more passengers rather than moving from other flights. On the matter of JFK-LHR, I think that if they ever launched that they should move two LHR flights from EWR to JFK. This would obviously depend on whether UA can get slots.


Not that hard to understand - many of the JFK passengers are probably on EWR flights unlike BOS passengers. Therefore, BOS will probably be more new customers versus cannibalizing EWR to an extent.

Also why do they need slots if they are “moving” flights from EWR? They have the slots.
 
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calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3347
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:19 am

319 Paint:
N836UA entered AMA 2740/28Jul for EvoBlu livery
 
User avatar
jetblastdubai
Posts: 2052
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:29 am

jbs2886 wrote:
IFLYUA767 wrote:

I’m curious as to how BOS-LHR will generate more passengers rather than moving from other flights. On the matter of JFK-LHR, I think that if they ever launched that they should move two LHR flights from EWR to JFK. This would obviously depend on whether UA can get slots.


Also why do they need slots if they are “moving” flights from EWR? They have the slots.


I think he was referring to JFK slots...not LHR.
 
grjplanes
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:52 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:46 am

Any indication whether the loads on EWR-JNB is still holding strong, since South Africa was changed back to level 4 travel advisory...although it doesn't seem that deters US tourists that much?

Also with DL starting ATL-JNB this weekend, no significant impact on UA?
 
IFLYUA767
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 11:42 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:36 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
IFLYUA767 wrote:

I’m curious as to how BOS-LHR will generate more passengers rather than moving from other flights. On the matter of JFK-LHR, I think that if they ever launched that they should move two LHR flights from EWR to JFK. This would obviously depend on whether UA can get slots.


Also why do they need slots if they are “moving” flights from EWR? They have the slots.


I think he was referring to JFK slots...not LHR.


Yes I was referring to JFK.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3590
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:59 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
UA's BOS-LHR is a way to hit back at JetBlue, but also fill a gap in the LHR network for UA (moreso than JFK that is mostly covered by EWR). BOS is likely to generate more new UA passengers versus just moving them from other flights. I am surprised, however, we haven't seen a flight shift from EWR to JFK though for that reason.



United's upcoming BOS-LHR slot has nothing to do with JetBlue at all, United has had this in the works for some time long before JetBlue push into EWR as a result of COVID. United and Air New Zealand did a secret LHR slot swap in 2019 which was to take effect in October of 2020 at the time that was the date when NZ was scheduled to end their service to LHR. United gave NZ our 23:00 arrival and 22:40 departure slots (slot UA was not using) in exchanged for NZ's 10:50 arrival 15:20 departure slots. United already had acquired an extra seasonal slot from a different carrier and they were planning on using the seasonal slot starting in the summer of 2020 out of EWR which would have increase UA's EWR-LHR daily operation from 6x daily to 7x daily for the entire IATA summer reverting back to 6x daily for IATA winter.

United never intended on making LAX-LHR daily double those plans had been tabled with United saying a singular LAX-LHR flight was enough for us instead choosing to launch DEN-LHR.

So it is entirely possible that back in 2019 when United was negotiating this deal with Air New Zealand to swap slots the end goal for United was to launch BOS-LHR and the time slot works perfectly for a BOS-LHR-BOS flight. And that is assuming the negotiations with NZ started in 2019 we only found out about the slot swap in 2019 but who know negotiations could have begun in 2018. Who knows when NZ internally decided they were leaving LHR and when or how UA found out about NZ plans and began hatch plans of their own to acquire NZ's LHR slot. To boil this down and say this about hitting back at JetBlue is not true at all when you look at how long UA has been working on getting more LHR slots and not just NZ's slot but also the season slot we aquired as well.

As far as JFK I don't see UA moving slots from EWR to JFK, but I do think UA will try to find and purchase 2 additional year around slots (if any are available) to launch 2x daily JFK-LHR flights.
 
CRJ200flyer
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:33 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:34 pm

https://thepointsguy.com/news/opt-out-united-middle-seat/

Once again, United taking 4 years to catch up to Delta - finally offering the ability to say if you’d like an upgrade if it was to a middle seat.
 
User avatar
adamblang
Posts: 1369
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:47 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:33 pm

CRJ200flyer wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/opt-out-united-middle-seat/

Once again, United taking 4 years to catch up to Delta - finally offering the ability to say if you’d like an upgrade if it was to a middle seat.


That's not what this is.

United doesn't treat Economy Plus as an upgradable cabin like Delta does Comfort Plus. There's no "upgrade" to waitlist for. There's no automatic reseating of people from regular economy to Economy Plus. If you have a seat benefit, you just pick your seat.

What's new here is

  1. United has been letting standby passengers enter their seat preferences so when the seating bot automatically seats standbys they get the seat they want and don't have to change it
  2. United added an option that to tell the bot that if the bot has an Economy Plus middle or a regular economy aisle/window give me the regular economy rather than the Economy Plus aisle
 
CRJ200flyer
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:33 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:44 pm

adamblang wrote:
CRJ200flyer wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/opt-out-united-middle-seat/

Once again, United taking 4 years to catch up to Delta - finally offering the ability to say if you’d like an upgrade if it was to a middle seat.


That's not what this is.

United doesn't treat Economy Plus as an upgradable cabin like Delta does Comfort Plus. There's no "upgrade" to waitlist for. There's no automatic reseating of people from regular economy to Economy Plus. If you have a seat benefit, you just pick your seat.

What's new here is

  1. United has been letting standby passengers enter their seat preferences so when the seating bot automatically seats standbys they get the seat they want and don't have to change it
  2. United added an option that to tell the bot that if the bot has an Economy Plus middle or a regular economy aisle/window give me the regular economy rather than the Economy Plus aisle


Thank you for clarifying as the headline and discussion is misleading. So is this for revenue or non-revenue standby passengers? Does United have a lot of revenue standby passengers that this system would be necessary?
 
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adamblang
Posts: 1369
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:47 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:29 pm

CRJ200flyer wrote:
Thank you for clarifying as the headline and discussion is misleading. So is this for revenue or non-revenue standby passengers? Does United have a lot of revenue standby passengers that this system would be necessary?

It’s for both revenue and non revenue standbys.

Revenue standbys can be
  1. Premiers changing to another flight that doesn’t have seat availability
  2. Any traveler who arrived at the airport early and asked to fly on an earlier flight
  3. Any traveler added to a standby list because of an irregular operations recovery situation
  4. Any traveler using the flat tire rule
 
IFlyOff
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 6:36 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:57 pm

adamblang wrote:
CRJ200flyer wrote:
Thank you for clarifying as the headline and discussion is misleading. So is this for revenue or non-revenue standby passengers? Does United have a lot of revenue standby passengers that this system would be necessary?

It’s for both revenue and non revenue standbys.

Revenue standbys can be
  1. Premiers changing to another flight that doesn’t have seat availability
  2. Any traveler who arrived at the airport early and asked to fly on an earlier flight
  3. Any traveler added to a standby list because of an irregular operations recovery situation
  4. Any traveler using the flat tire rule

Because most US airlines did away with change fees, there are likely many more revenue standby passengers in the system. Eliminating change fees was one of the very few benefits of COVID.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 596
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:49 pm

jayunited wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
UA's BOS-LHR is a way to hit back at JetBlue, but also fill a gap in the LHR network for UA (moreso than JFK that is mostly covered by EWR). BOS is likely to generate more new UA passengers versus just moving them from other flights. I am surprised, however, we haven't seen a flight shift from EWR to JFK though for that reason.



United's upcoming BOS-LHR slot has nothing to do with JetBlue at all, United has had this in the works for some time long before JetBlue push into EWR as a result of COVID. United and Air New Zealand did a secret LHR slot swap in 2019 which was to take effect in October of 2020 at the time that was the date when NZ was scheduled to end their service to LHR. United gave NZ our 23:00 arrival and 22:40 departure slots (slot UA was not using) in exchanged for NZ's 10:50 arrival 15:20 departure slots. United already had acquired an extra seasonal slot from a different carrier and they were planning on using the seasonal slot starting in the summer of 2020 out of EWR which would have increase UA's EWR-LHR daily operation from 6x daily to 7x daily for the entire IATA summer reverting back to 6x daily for IATA winter.

United never intended on making LAX-LHR daily double those plans had been tabled with United saying a singular LAX-LHR flight was enough for us instead choosing to launch DEN-LHR.

So it is entirely possible that back in 2019 when United was negotiating this deal with Air New Zealand to swap slots the end goal for United was to launch BOS-LHR and the time slot works perfectly for a BOS-LHR-BOS flight. And that is assuming the negotiations with NZ started in 2019 we only found out about the slot swap in 2019 but who know negotiations could have begun in 2018. Who knows when NZ internally decided they were leaving LHR and when or how UA found out about NZ plans and began hatch plans of their own to acquire NZ's LHR slot. To boil this down and say this about hitting back at JetBlue is not true at all when you look at how long UA has been working on getting more LHR slots and not just NZ's slot but also the season slot we aquired as well.

As far as JFK I don't see UA moving slots from EWR to JFK, but I do think UA will try to find and purchase 2 additional year around slots (if any are available) to launch 2x daily JFK-LHR flights.


Thanks for the clarification.
How do you think Star Alliance, in general, is doing versus Oneworld/Skyteam in navigating the last 16 months?

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