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len90
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:34 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
superking722 wrote:
Is United going back to using terminal A at Newark. I was checking in for my flight tomorrow, Aug 1st, and it’s scheduled to leave from Gate A28 (UA 4396). I looked at some other express flights that came to mind and they all seem to be leaving from terminal A.


Yes

Wonder if this will help in easing delays that were seen at EWR with weather over the past few weeks where arrivals were sitting on the ground for hours after landing.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:41 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
I wish United, DIA, and the FAA would sit down in a room and come up with some sort of operational plan to address the ramp congestion in Denver. These banks routinely back up the alley 15-20 airplanes deep that are trying to exit, while the next bank is arriving. This results in some enormous taxi-in times where the gates are open for the inbounds, but the departures backed up into the alley so far the arrivals can't get to their gates. It's absolute mayhem, and that's on clear days without major weather issues contributing. We have a metering program in place but I don't know how effective it is.

It seems like the bottleneck is going from ramp control to ground. After that things flow pretty smooth.


That has been a huge problem for United at ORD for decades during busy departure banks the alley way between the B and C concourses becomes a parking lot. As you know the alley ways are not under the control of the FAA so there isn't much the FAA can do except manage traffic under their control but if United chooses to have 35 aircraft depart at the same time 35 aircraft arrive and they all need access the same alley way then United is the one creating their own gridlock.

Most of my time at ORD was spent on afternoons and I can tell you the 12pm, 3pm, 5pm, 6pm, and 8pm departure banks were gridlocked everyday because there was an arrival bank at the same time as the departure bank. If you want to reduce some of the gridlock I would say the first place you should start is with the gate manager, in an ideal setting it is the responsibility of the gate manager to manage the gates and spread out the workload so no one particular area is overloaded but in the case of ORD that almost never happened.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:07 am

LAXintl wrote:
United and the AFA last week exchanged notices marking the official intention of start negotiations on the 2016 flight attendant agreement that became amendable this year.

Let see how long this process takes - last one took 4-years. While United has publicly stated they want an "industry leading contract", its obviously a murky subject as two sides might have very different views as to what that means.


Take a step back and ask yourself why it took 4 years for United and the AFA to agree to a contract. For at least 3 of the 4 years there was so much infighting among the three separate work groups the AFA couldn't present United with a true starting point for where they wanted to begin negotiations. Once the AFA was able to get most of it members on the same page United and the AFA came to an agreement with 12 months.

Most if not all of United union represented employees contracts are amendable this year I think Kirby will try to have all contracts wrapped up by the end of 2022. He understands that in order for United to reach the goals he has put forth he will need peace between labor and management.
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:24 am

jayunited wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
I wish United, DIA, and the FAA would sit down in a room and come up with some sort of operational plan to address the ramp congestion in Denver. These banks routinely back up the alley 15-20 airplanes deep that are trying to exit, while the next bank is arriving. This results in some enormous taxi-in times where the gates are open for the inbounds, but the departures backed up into the alley so far the arrivals can't get to their gates. It's absolute mayhem, and that's on clear days without major weather issues contributing. We have a metering program in place but I don't know how effective it is.

It seems like the bottleneck is going from ramp control to ground. After that things flow pretty smooth.


That has been a huge problem for United at ORD for decades during busy departure banks the alley way between the B and C concourses becomes a parking lot. As you know the alley ways are not under the control of the FAA so there isn't much the FAA can do except manage traffic under their control but if United chooses to have 35 aircraft depart at the same time 35 aircraft arrive and they all need access the same alley way then United is the one creating their own gridlock.

Most of my time at ORD was spent on afternoons and I can tell you the 12pm, 3pm, 5pm, 6pm, and 8pm departure banks were gridlocked everyday because there was an arrival bank at the same time as the departure bank. If you want to reduce some of the gridlock I would say the first place you should start is with the gate manager, in an ideal setting it is the responsibility of the gate manager to manage the gates and spread out the workload so no one particular area is overloaded but in the case of ORD that almost never happened.


And I’ve thought the taxi patterns were bad there…could drive to Michigan based on some of the carousel taxi patterns
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:35 am

jayunited wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
I wish United, DIA, and the FAA would sit down in a room and come up with some sort of operational plan to address the ramp congestion in Denver. These banks routinely back up the alley 15-20 airplanes deep that are trying to exit, while the next bank is arriving. This results in some enormous taxi-in times where the gates are open for the inbounds, but the departures backed up into the alley so far the arrivals can't get to their gates. It's absolute mayhem, and that's on clear days without major weather issues contributing. We have a metering program in place but I don't know how effective it is.

It seems like the bottleneck is going from ramp control to ground. After that things flow pretty smooth.


That has been a huge problem for United at ORD for decades during busy departure banks the alley way between the B and C concourses becomes a parking lot. As you know the alley ways are not under the control of the FAA so there isn't much the FAA can do except manage traffic under their control but if United chooses to have 35 aircraft depart at the same time 35 aircraft arrive and they all need access the same alley way then United is the one creating their own gridlock.

Most of my time at ORD was spent on afternoons and I can tell you the 12pm, 3pm, 5pm, 6pm, and 8pm departure banks were gridlocked everyday because there was an arrival bank at the same time as the departure bank. If you want to reduce some of the gridlock I would say the first place you should start is with the gate manager, in an ideal setting it is the responsibility of the gate manager to manage the gates and spread out the workload so no one particular area is overloaded but in the case of ORD that almost never happened.


I mentioned the FAA because the pinch point seems to be in getting airplanes onto the taxiways. The taxiways aren't really a problem, the problem is getting aircraft from the ramp frequency onto the ground frequency. Since the kink in the hose is at that one specific handoff point the FAA definitely has some responsibility in any potential solution. As mentioned above only 1 ground controller works each side of the airport, when that controller is busy handling the traffic exiting 4 different concourse ramps the backups pile up fast. Often times it's not taxiway traffic holding up the process, it is the fact that the controller can only talk to 1 airplane at a time, while there are 4 lines of traffic trying to exit the ramps. The layout of the airport is pretty straightforward, so there really needs to be some improvement to the handoff process or better coordination between the two entities.
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:30 am

jayunited wrote:

That has been a huge problem for United at ORD for decades during busy departure banks the alley way between the B and C concourses becomes a parking lot. As you know the alley ways are not under the control of the FAA so there isn't much the FAA can do except manage traffic under their control but if United chooses to have 35 aircraft depart at the same time 35 aircraft arrive and they all need access the same alley way then United is the one creating their own gridlock.

Most of my time at ORD was spent on afternoons and I can tell you the 12pm, 3pm, 5pm, 6pm, and 8pm departure banks were gridlocked everyday because there was an arrival bank at the same time as the departure bank. If you want to reduce some of the gridlock I would say the first place you should start is with the gate manager, in an ideal setting it is the responsibility of the gate manager to manage the gates and spread out the workload so no one particular area is overloaded but in the case of ORD that almost never happened.


For how bad you think UA had it at ORD over the years, T1 was a breeze compared to T3 with the "Y" concourse layout or "box canyon" design. Not only when AA pushed a certain-sized A/C in the "Y" it would block the entire alley for all inbounds or outbounds, but they also built several gates on the end "H" and "K" that blocked the inner taxiway for everyone else when mainline-sized A/C pushed. Imagine an entire airport with the issues that T3 at ORD has. LAX is exhibit 1. All box canyon alleys plus numerous gates on almost every concourse that block the inner taxiways making it very hard to move aircraft to where they want to go.

A gate manager could only do so much but when flights are 5 minutes early to push or 5 minutes late to push, any finely-tuned master plan would fall apart quickly. Pushing a 777 off C29, B16 or B17 doesn't help the flow between B and C either. Every concourse has a few "lemons" to work with. T3 and LAX got the whole orchard.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:35 am

Question.
Is ITO-LAX a permanent year round addition or
Seasonal?

Thanks Flyguy
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:16 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
I wish United, DIA, and the FAA would sit down in a room and come up with some sort of operational plan to address the ramp congestion in Denver. These banks routinely back up the alley 15-20 airplanes deep that are trying to exit, while the next bank is arriving. This results in some enormous taxi-in times where the gates are open for the inbounds, but the departures backed up into the alley so far the arrivals can't get to their gates. It's absolute mayhem, and that's on clear days without major weather issues contributing. We have a metering program in place but I don't know how effective it is.

It seems like the bottleneck is going from ramp control to ground. After that things flow pretty smooth.


That has been a huge problem for United at ORD for decades during busy departure banks the alley way between the B and C concourses becomes a parking lot. As you know the alley ways are not under the control of the FAA so there isn't much the FAA can do except manage traffic under their control but if United chooses to have 35 aircraft depart at the same time 35 aircraft arrive and they all need access the same alley way then United is the one creating their own gridlock.

Most of my time at ORD was spent on afternoons and I can tell you the 12pm, 3pm, 5pm, 6pm, and 8pm departure banks were gridlocked everyday because there was an arrival bank at the same time as the departure bank. If you want to reduce some of the gridlock I would say the first place you should start is with the gate manager, in an ideal setting it is the responsibility of the gate manager to manage the gates and spread out the workload so no one particular area is overloaded but in the case of ORD that almost never happened.


I mentioned the FAA because the pinch point seems to be in getting airplanes onto the taxiways. The taxiways aren't really a problem, the problem is getting aircraft from the ramp frequency onto the ground frequency. Since the kink in the hose is at that one specific handoff point the FAA definitely has some responsibility in any potential solution. As mentioned above only 1 ground controller works each side of the airport, when that controller is busy handling the traffic exiting 4 different concourse ramps the backups pile up fast. Often times it's not taxiway traffic holding up the process, it is the fact that the controller can only talk to 1 airplane at a time, while there are 4 lines of traffic trying to exit the ramps. The layout of the airport is pretty straightforward, so there really needs to be some improvement to the handoff process or better coordination between the two entities.

That's still not the FAA's problem to resolve. If the bottleneck isn't happening there, then it would probably happen at the runway anyway. This is an issue that United needs to resolve if it wants to improve operational efficiencies.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:19 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
I mentioned the FAA because the pinch point seems to be in getting airplanes onto the taxiways. The taxiways aren't really a problem, the problem is getting aircraft from the ramp frequency onto the ground frequency. Since the kink in the hose is at that one specific handoff point the FAA definitely has some responsibility in any potential solution. As mentioned above only 1 ground controller works each side of the airport, when that controller is busy handling the traffic exiting 4 different concourse ramps the backups pile up fast. Often times it's not taxiway traffic holding up the process, it is the fact that the controller can only talk to 1 airplane at a time, while there are 4 lines of traffic trying to exit the ramps. The layout of the airport is pretty straightforward, so there really needs to be some improvement to the handoff process or better coordination between the two entities.


Again that isn't the FAA's issue to deal with it falls to the airlines. It is the airlines that create their own schedules and create these massive departure and arrival banks. Even if the FAA were to have 5-6 controllers United still has 35 aircraft arriving and 35 aircraft departing at nearly the same time. With only 5 controllers 30 of the 35 aircraft are still going to have sit and wait to talk to a controller. In the case of United at ORD's terminal 1, United has around 25 gates that basically share the B and C alley way, that number is much higher if we take into account C3, C1 C2, B1 and part of terminal 2 E concourse. But if we simply focus on the 25 or so gates that anchor both sides of the alley way I can tell you every day before I left ORD for Willis Tower at 12pm, 3pm, especially 5pm and again especially 8pm there were 22 aircraft leaving off from 25 of those gates with another 22 aircraft on the ground trying to gain access into the same alley way during all of those banks. Now throw in a UAX departure from C3 or C1 and/or a terminal 2 departure and boom instant grid lock. There is simply no way the FAA can handle that amount of traffic all trying to access the FAA controlled portion of the airport at once no matter how many controllers they have. In ORD's case United has an old terminal there are certain gates that can only handle certain types of aircraft and United for some banks has nearly every departure leaving within minutes of each other. Starting with the FAA is a nonstarter because it isn't the FAA that is creating the grid lock, it is the airlines. Asking the FAA to fix a problem the airlines created is ridiculous and again this has been a problem at ORD for years.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:25 pm

jayunited wrote:
Asking the FAA to fix a problem the airlines created is ridiculous and again this has been a problem at ORD for years.


Like, what, 30 years? I can remember being scheduled on a 5pm out of ORD and seeing 25 or more UA and AA flights all (hopelessly/optimistically!) scheduled for 5PM. Apparently they saw some grave disadvantage to scheduling a 5:07 or 5:15.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:09 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
jayunited wrote:

That has been a huge problem for United at ORD for decades during busy departure banks the alley way between the B and C concourses becomes a parking lot. As you know the alley ways are not under the control of the FAA so there isn't much the FAA can do except manage traffic under their control but if United chooses to have 35 aircraft depart at the same time 35 aircraft arrive and they all need access the same alley way then United is the one creating their own gridlock.

Most of my time at ORD was spent on afternoons and I can tell you the 12pm, 3pm, 5pm, 6pm, and 8pm departure banks were gridlocked everyday because there was an arrival bank at the same time as the departure bank. If you want to reduce some of the gridlock I would say the first place you should start is with the gate manager, in an ideal setting it is the responsibility of the gate manager to manage the gates and spread out the workload so no one particular area is overloaded but in the case of ORD that almost never happened.


I mentioned the FAA because the pinch point seems to be in getting airplanes onto the taxiways. The taxiways aren't really a problem, the problem is getting aircraft from the ramp frequency onto the ground frequency. Since the kink in the hose is at that one specific handoff point the FAA definitely has some responsibility in any potential solution. As mentioned above only 1 ground controller works each side of the airport, when that controller is busy handling the traffic exiting 4 different concourse ramps the backups pile up fast. Often times it's not taxiway traffic holding up the process, it is the fact that the controller can only talk to 1 airplane at a time, while there are 4 lines of traffic trying to exit the ramps. The layout of the airport is pretty straightforward, so there really needs to be some improvement to the handoff process or better coordination between the two entities.

That's still not the FAA's problem to resolve. If the bottleneck isn't happening there, then it would probably happen at the runway anyway. This is an issue that United needs to resolve if it wants to improve operational efficiencies.


I’m not saying it is theirs alone to resolve. I said all 3 could sit down and try to find a solution. United’s schedule is definitely a big part of that issue. For example, the FAA allowing some flexibility on which ramp spot is used to exit the ramp even if it results in longer taxi times. United adding some padding to the schedule. All I am suggesting is the 3 working together, not that the FAA solve the issue themselves. Even if the bottleneck happens at the runway it would at least get the airplanes out of the ramp so the arrivals can get into the ramp,
Which would actually probably help the FAA guys by not clogging their taxiways with waiting arrivals.

Again I am not saying this is the FAA’s issue alone, but just that all 3 could probably find some solutions if they all sat down and found some wiggle room. There seems to be no coordination between the 3 right now. That is all I am saying.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:52 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Question.
Is ITO-LAX a permanent year round addition or
Seasonal?

Thanks Flyguy

It's been year round for as long as I can remember.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:05 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:

I mentioned the FAA because the pinch point seems to be in getting airplanes onto the taxiways. The taxiways aren't really a problem, the problem is getting aircraft from the ramp frequency onto the ground frequency. Since the kink in the hose is at that one specific handoff point the FAA definitely has some responsibility in any potential solution. As mentioned above only 1 ground controller works each side of the airport, when that controller is busy handling the traffic exiting 4 different concourse ramps the backups pile up fast. Often times it's not taxiway traffic holding up the process, it is the fact that the controller can only talk to 1 airplane at a time, while there are 4 lines of traffic trying to exit the ramps. The layout of the airport is pretty straightforward, so there really needs to be some improvement to the handoff process or better coordination between the two entities.

That's still not the FAA's problem to resolve. If the bottleneck isn't happening there, then it would probably happen at the runway anyway. This is an issue that United needs to resolve if it wants to improve operational efficiencies.


I’m not saying it is theirs alone to resolve. I said all 3 could sit down and try to find a solution. United’s schedule is definitely a big part of that issue. For example, the FAA allowing some flexibility on which ramp spot is used to exit the ramp even if it results in longer taxi times. United adding some padding to the schedule. All I am suggesting is the 3 working together, not that the FAA solve the issue themselves. Even if the bottleneck happens at the runway it would at least get the airplanes out of the ramp so the arrivals can get into the ramp,
Which would actually probably help the FAA guys by not clogging their taxiways with waiting arrivals.

Again I am not saying this is the FAA’s issue alone, but just that all 3 could probably find some solutions if they all sat down and found some wiggle room. There seems to be no coordination between the 3 right now. That is all I am saying.


What sort of arrangement does Atlanta have with ground controllers? That seems to be the closest analogue in terms of airfield configuration and traffic volume.
 
TrafficCop
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:06 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Asking the FAA to fix a problem the airlines created is ridiculous and again this has been a problem at ORD for years.


Like, what, 30 years? I can remember being scheduled on a 5pm out of ORD and seeing 25 or more UA and AA flights all (hopelessly/optimistically!) scheduled for 5PM. Apparently they saw some grave disadvantage to scheduling a 5:07 or 5:15.


Same in ATL,DEN.DFW and any other major hub. Its really a marketing based function. Marketing will tell you time and again If a pax if offered a 5:00pm flight versus a 5:17pm they will take it. You cant have airlines discuss times and etc or somebody yells Collusion. Sometime in near future now 2023 I think the Time Based Metering program will start. Airlines will only be able to send aircraft to FAA that have take off slots in a short period of time. ( I believe 10-15 mins).. Airlines will be able to swap flights as needed to allow for a better flow. This does mean FAA MAY need to give up real estate at some airports. That is something they have been very reluctant to do.
 
OlympicATH
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:41 pm

fun2fly wrote:
Just off a quick hop to ATH on AA via ORD.


How were the loads? Packed sounds like?
 
fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:27 pm

OlympicATH wrote:
fun2fly wrote:
Just off a quick hop to ATH on AA via ORD.


How were the loads? Packed sounds like?


3 seats open between both flights. Not bad. I don't know if they gave the seats away at a low price or FF miles. I know the yield on our 5x PE seats at $1340 each wasn't too good for AA. That's less than a normal US>ATH flight in prime summer season.
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:24 am

In reference to comment about cost of AA PE in above post….

Nope
United seems to be charging $650-$1150 out of my station (SHV) just for domestic coach
 
dctraynr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:44 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
I wish United, DIA, and the FAA would sit down in a room and come up with some sort of operational plan to address the ramp congestion in Denver. These banks routinely back up the alley 15-20 airplanes deep that are trying to exit, while the next bank is arriving. This results in some enormous taxi-in times where the gates are open for the inbounds, but the departures backed up into the alley so far the arrivals can't get to their gates. It's absolute mayhem, and that's on clear days without major weather issues contributing. We have a metering program in place but I don't know how effective it is.

It seems like the bottleneck is going from ramp control to ground. After that things flow pretty smooth.


That has been a huge problem for United at ORD for decades during busy departure banks the alley way between the B and C concourses becomes a parking lot. As you know the alley ways are not under the control of the FAA so there isn't much the FAA can do except manage traffic under their control but if United chooses to have 35 aircraft depart at the same time 35 aircraft arrive and they all need access the same alley way then United is the one creating their own gridlock.

Most of my time at ORD was spent on afternoons and I can tell you the 12pm, 3pm, 5pm, 6pm, and 8pm departure banks were gridlocked everyday because there was an arrival bank at the same time as the departure bank. If you want to reduce some of the gridlock I would say the first place you should start is with the gate manager, in an ideal setting it is the responsibility of the gate manager to manage the gates and spread out the workload so no one particular area is overloaded but in the case of ORD that almost never happened.


I mentioned the FAA because the pinch point seems to be in getting airplanes onto the taxiways. The taxiways aren't really a problem, the problem is getting aircraft from the ramp frequency onto the ground frequency. Since the kink in the hose is at that one specific handoff point the FAA definitely has some responsibility in any potential solution. As mentioned above only 1 ground controller works each side of the airport, when that controller is busy handling the traffic exiting 4 different concourse ramps the backups pile up fast. Often times it's not taxiway traffic holding up the process, it is the fact that the controller can only talk to 1 airplane at a time, while there are 4 lines of traffic trying to exit the ramps. The layout of the airport is pretty straightforward, so there really needs to be some improvement to the handoff process or better coordination between the two entities.


ORD (as well as a few other airports) has a ground metering frequency that largely resolves the frequency congestion issue. As a flight gets to the control transfer point (non-movement to movement area), the crew calls ground metering with their callsign, location, and any non-standard issues (runway request, >250kts below 10k, etc). Ground metering then sequences flights ready to taxi, eliminating the time spent waiting to get a word in on ground frequency. The ground controller has a sequence of flight strips from the metering position and can continously issue taxi instructions without interruption. I'll preface this by saying I'm not a controller, but it seems to me that some of the busier airports could benefit from a metering position during peak times.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:05 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
I’m not saying it is theirs alone to resolve. I said all 3 could sit down and try to find a solution. United’s schedule is definitely a big part of that issue. For example, the FAA allowing some flexibility on which ramp spot is used to exit the ramp even if it results in longer taxi times. United adding some padding to the schedule. All I am suggesting is the 3 working together, not that the FAA solve the issue themselves. Even if the bottleneck happens at the runway it would at least get the airplanes out of the ramp so the arrivals can get into the ramp,
Which would actually probably help the FAA guys by not clogging their taxiways with waiting arrivals.

Again I am not saying this is the FAA’s issue alone, but just that all 3 could probably find some solutions if they all sat down and found some wiggle room. There seems to be no coordination between the 3 right now. That is all I am saying.

Standard operating procedures like taxi flows are developed by controllers and support specialists (who are current or former controllers); those procedures are developed to improve operational efficiencies within the scope of things the FAA can control. Ramps are in non movement areas, and that congestion is self-inflicted by the carrier, so I'm willing to bet United looks at the situation as a cost of doing business. Changes to SOPs are nearly always made with users (airlines) in consultation, so I'm sure these issues have at least been discussed. If it hasn't changed, it's because United hasn't deemed it in their best interest to change, and the controllers have determined that there aren't presently any significant operational efficiencies to be gained.

I'll give you an example. Newark has some sort of traffic management initiative in effect for a good portion of the day (pre covid was nearly all day, lately it's maybe half the day). Whether that be EDCTs, ground stops, mile in trail restrictions, enroute metering, etc. The FAA command center will forecast the arrival rate for the airport for each hour based on current or expected conditions, and issue restrictions to limit the number of arrivals to roughly the forecasted number. United regularly pushes back on those forecasts in an effort to raise the arrival rates. Obviously they don't want delayed flights, and they want the airport to handle as many operations as possible. They push back on those numbers knowing full well that aircraft will likely be vectored for spacing or forced to hold and possibly divert. It's a gamble...sometimes they win, sometimes they lose. They have lost BIG TIME on at least two occasions in recent weeks.

The same is done with other airlines at other congested airports. It's the cost of doing business. So, having an overly congested ramp is a problem, just like it's a problem wasting fuel on vectors, speed restrictions, and holding while trying to cram too many airplanes into a congested airport. They don't care about a solution because they know they're creating problems.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:43 am

I can't find the post to quote the individual but about a week maybe 10 days ago someone noted the temporary downgauge of equipment for EWR-DEL-EWR from a 77W to a 789.

Looking at United's August schedule what is publish and what isn't published I think I've figured out why the downgauge took place. First EWR-FCO-EWR has been upgauged for the month of August from a 789 to a 77W. Also in the month of August United has quite a few military charters using widebodies a lot more than we had in July. Some are domestic charters only but there are quite a few international military charters on the schedule and they are all (domestic and international) using the 77Ws.

With the resumption of UA's ORD-DEL-ORD flight this month it seems like UA decided the best route to downgauge for the month of August was EWR-DEL-EWR to free up a frame or two.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:45 am

319 Paint/Added Unit:
N822UA entered AMA 2753/2Aug for EvoBlu livery
N873UA exited AMA 2754/2Aug in EvoBlu livery. Added unit first revenue flight sked 426/3Aug (former China Southern)
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:06 am

738 in GUM Operation:
738 N77295 returned to GUM based operations after a couple years in mainland service.
 
airboss787
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Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:43 am

jayunited wrote:
I can't find the post to quote the individual but about a week maybe 10 days ago someone noted the temporary downgauge of equipment for EWR-DEL-EWR from a 77W to a 789.

Looking at United's August schedule what is publish and what isn't published I think I've figured out why the downgauge took place. First EWR-FCO-EWR has been upgauged for the month of August from a 789 to a 77W. Also in the month of August United has quite a few military charters using widebodies a lot more than we had in July. Some are domestic charters only but there are quite a few international military charters on the schedule and they are all (domestic and international) using the 77Ws.

With the resumption of UA's ORD-DEL-ORD flight this month it seems like UA decided the best route to downgauge for the month of August was EWR-DEL-EWR to free up a frame or two.


Interesting. Thanks for the explanation. Is it also the loads that are low on the EWR-DEL-EWR route that they can afford to do it? Even with the travel ban currently in place, 3 of 4 India flights have operated with the same schedule and no reductions throughout the last year. Do these flights do that well all year? Especially since Air India has reduced their US schedule considerably since May when the ban was introduced.
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:49 am

Jayunited, how are the loads looking for this week and next? Any trends you see that you are able to share? Those updates told more about travel and mood of the country better than most other data.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:18 pm

sldispatcher wrote:
Jayunited, how are the loads looking for this week and next? Any trends you see that you are able to share? Those updates told more about travel and mood of the country better than most other data.


I'm sorry I thought I posted the numbers for this week this past Saturday.

For this week Sunday August 1st through Saturday August 7th United has 2.7 million revenue passengers on the books. That number is higher the 2.6 million that flew United during the week of the 4th of July however United and UAX are operating more flight in August than we did in July. For the first week of August UA/UAX are operating 4247 total flights on 2 of our busiest days and that number comes down to 4129 on Wednesday (tomorrow August 4th) our slowest day this week a difference of 118 flights. So the numbers are still going we are not seeing people cancel their vacation plans even though we are in the mist of the Delta variant surge, which is a complete contrast to what United saw last Thanksgiving where that surge resulted in tens of thousands of passengers canceling their Thanksgiving travel plans each day resulting in United flying a lot of empt air planes.

Looking at the hubs we already know the usual top two DEN and IAH but interestingly enough SFO even with much of its international traffic still sidelined has not had a single day where their O&D revenue passenger count dipped below 15,000 passengers over the past two weeks. In fact this week their slowest day is Wednesday with only 17,871 total O&D revenue passengers but SFO has 3 days this week (Sunday, Monday, and Saturday) where their O&D count will exceed 20,500 O&D revenue passengers and Friday comes pretty close to hitting the 20,000 mark at 19,842. LAX it has been a while since I've shined a spot light on LAX. During the month of July and now their first week of August United at LAX has not had a single day were our O&D revenue count dipped below 10,000 passengers per day. Now here in the first week of August UA at LAX is knocking on the door of 15,000 O&D passengers, we don't quite get there but we have two days this week were LAX is above the 14,500 O&D count each day and their slowest day is actually Thursday with only 12,228 O&D revenue passengers. Those numbers may appear minuscule but keep in mind LAX is still United's smallest hub with the fewest number of daily departures at 111, which isn't bad considering pre-COVID UA was averaging around 150 to 160 daily departures out of LAX.

Some of UA's larger line stations are also not only getting more flights but their load factors are all in the upper 90% range. Stations like BOS this week will average 97% revenue load factor, MCO is at 95%, SEA, 95%, LAS 96.4%, SAN, 97%, FLL 96.8%. I can't mention them all but the point is from the hubs to now line stations flights are FULL and even though United has increased the total number of daily flights we will operate in August verses July we are also seeing higher numbers of revenue passenger (at least for the first week of August) verses July.

Next week August 8th through the 14th numbers come out at some point this coming Saturday it will be interesting to see if United maintains the 2.7 million weekly revenue customers as we get closer to the start of the school year in many districts across this country.
 
amtravels
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:28 pm

Has United announced (internally or otherwise) what product they’ll be using to retrofit the narrowbodies with larger bins? Is it the Zodiac interior for the Airbus family? Or OEM for both airbus and Boeing (BSI)?

Flew a 23 year old Delta A320 yesterday with the Zodiac interior and genuinely thought the plane was nearly brand new until I looked up the tail no. Looking forward to this experience on UA once the retrofit gets rolling.
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:10 am

jayunited wrote:
sldispatcher wrote:
Jayunited, how are the loads looking for this week and next? Any trends you see that you are able to share? Those updates told more about travel and mood of the country better than most other data.


I'm sorry I thought I posted the numbers for this week this past Saturday.

For this week Sunday August 1st through Saturday August 7th United has 2.7 million revenue passengers on the books. That number is higher the 2.6 million that flew United during the week of the 4th of July however United and UAX are operating more flight in August than we did in July. For the first week of August UA/UAX are operating 4247 total flights on 2 of our busiest days and that number comes down to 4129 on Wednesday (tomorrow August 4th) our slowest day this week a difference of 118 flights. So the numbers are still going we are not seeing people cancel their vacation plans even though we are in the mist of the Delta variant surge, which is a complete contrast to what United saw last Thanksgiving where that surge resulted in tens of thousands of passengers canceling their Thanksgiving travel plans each day resulting in United flying a lot of empt air planes.

Looking at the hubs we already know the usual top two DEN and IAH but interestingly enough SFO even with much of its international traffic still sidelined has not had a single day where their O&D revenue passenger count dipped below 15,000 passengers over the past two weeks. In fact this week their slowest day is Wednesday with only 17,871 total O&D revenue passengers but SFO has 3 days this week (Sunday, Monday, and Saturday) where their O&D count will exceed 20,500 O&D revenue passengers and Friday comes pretty close to hitting the 20,000 mark at 19,842. LAX it has been a while since I've shined a spot light on LAX. During the month of July and now their first week of August United at LAX has not had a single day were our O&D revenue count dipped below 10,000 passengers per day. Now here in the first week of August UA at LAX is knocking on the door of 15,000 O&D passengers, we don't quite get there but we have two days this week were LAX is above the 14,500 O&D count each day and their slowest day is actually Thursday with only 12,228 O&D revenue passengers. Those numbers may appear minuscule but keep in mind LAX is still United's smallest hub with the fewest number of daily departures at 111, which isn't bad considering pre-COVID UA was averaging around 150 to 160 daily departures out of LAX.

Some of UA's larger line stations are also not only getting more flights but their load factors are all in the upper 90% range. Stations like BOS this week will average 97% revenue load factor, MCO is at 95%, SEA, 95%, LAS 96.4%, SAN, 97%, FLL 96.8%. I can't mention them all but the point is from the hubs to now line stations flights are FULL and even though United has increased the total number of daily flights we will operate in August verses July we are also seeing higher numbers of revenue passenger (at least for the first week of August) verses July.

Next week August 8th through the 14th numbers come out at some point this coming Saturday it will be interesting to see if United maintains the 2.7 million weekly revenue customers as we get closer to the start of the school year in many districts across this country.


Thank you for the review and info. The line stations say a lot. I flew DL this past week (UAL was just charging way too much of a premium for the city pair) and they were full (even asking for volunteers on ATL-ALB inbound and outbound legs).

It appears that airfares for Fall (october) have dropped back from the stratosphere so I'm anticipating downward pressure, but that is usual for the Fall. With the already reduced schedules, we'll see just how much they will choose to cut.
 
Cmac787
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:20 am

N37257 737-MAX8 entered SEA induction today. Weird that it beat 254-256 to delivery
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:30 pm

I'd be curious to know how many of American's customers United has carried this summer. No less than three friends / family messaged me yesterday alone who had purchased American tickets, American continued their summer-long meltdown, and American had subsequently protected them onto United. (The PNR American had created with UA space was messy so the app couldn't figure out how to check it in. The friends / family were curious if something was wrong and what to do. Just needed to clean up the reservation.)
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:02 pm

adamblang wrote:
I'd be curious to know how many of American's customers United has carried this summer. No less than three friends / family messaged me yesterday alone who had purchased American tickets, American continued their summer-long meltdown, and American had subsequently protected them onto United. (The PNR American had created with UA space was messy so the app couldn't figure out how to check it in. The friends / family were curious if something was wrong and what to do. Just needed to clean up the reservation.)

B6 is getting a ton of AA pax last minute, making commuting abnormally difficult.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:23 pm

United's added some nonstop flights between football towns before and after football games:

NCAA games
AUS - XNA 11SEP University of Texas @ University of Arkansas 
PIT - TYS 11SEP University of Pittsburgh @ University of Tennessee 
EUG - CMH 11SEP University of Oregon @ Ohio State University
ATL - GSP 18SEP Georgia Tech University @ Clemson University
BHM - SCE 18SEP Auburn University @ Pennsylvania State University
LNK - LAN 25SEP University of Nebraska @ Michigan State University
BOS - GSP 02OCT Boston College @ Clemson University
DTW - MSN 02OCT University of Michigan @ University of Wisconsin
SCE - CID 09OCT Pennsylvania State University @ University of Iowa
BHM - CLL 09OCT University of Alabama @ Texas A&M
DTW - LNK 09OCT University of Michigan @ University of Nebraska
SBN - ROA 09OCT University of Notre Dame @ Virginia Tech University
SYC - GSP 15OCT Syracuse University @ Clemson University
LAX - SBN 23OCT University of Southern California @ University of Notre Dame 
RDU - SBN 30OCT University of North Carolina @ University of Notre Dame
BTR - BHM 06NOV Louisiana State University @ University of Alabama
CMH - LNK 06NOV  Ohio State University @ University of Nebraska
SBN - CHO 13NOV University of Notre Dame @ University of Virginia
ATL - SBN 20NOV Georgia Tech University @ University of Notre Dame
SBN - SFO 27NOV University of Notre Dame @ Stanford University

NFL games
GRB - MSY 12SEP Green Bay Packers @ New Orleans Saints
BWI - LAS 13SEP  Baltimore Ravens @ Las Vegas Raiders
GRB - SFO 26SEP Green Bay Packers @ San Francisco 49ers
TPA - BOS 03OCT Tampa Bay Buccaneers @ New England Patriots
BUF - MCI 10OCT Buffalo Bills @ Kansas City Chiefs
ORD - LAS 10OCT Chicago Bears @ Las Vegas Raiders
TPA - ORD 24OCT Tampa Bay Buccaneers @ Chicago Bears
IAD - GRB 24OCT Washington Football @ Green Bay Packers
 
len90
Posts: 1178
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:10 am

Aircraft #0127 DID NOT go to paint on Aug. 2nd as originally scheduled. Any reason why? Currently doing a bunch of transcon routes.
 
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ChaseP
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:37 am

len90 wrote:
Aircraft #0127 DID NOT go to paint on Aug. 2nd as originally scheduled. Any reason why? Currently doing a bunch of transcon routes.


A/C 0127 didn't go into paint due to airport construction at Amarillo. That's what was communicated to me.
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 346
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:44 am

UAX Update:

E145XR:
N11164 entered revenue service with CommutAir

CR2:
N881AS has returned to flying with SkyWest

CR5:
N503MJ has been reregistered as N563GJ
N511MJ has been reregistered as N568GJ
N515MJ has been reregistered as N572GJ
N512MJ entered revenue service with GoJet (old Globe
livery)
 
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calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3563
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:04 pm

737MAX8 New delivery:
N17254 sked delivery flight 2711/5Aug BFI-PDX.
38M #5.
 
jayunited
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Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:10 pm

Some fleet news that came up in yesterdays NOC townhall

Right now United is planning on putting back into service nearly the entire pre-pandemic fleet.

The only fleet type that has been retired as a result of the pandemic are the PW752s.

United is planning on putting the non-ER 739s back into service no time frame was given.

Progress continues to be made on the PW 777 fleet, still no update on ETR.

Not including any used aircraft that were not in service pre-pandemic United now has around 144 aircraft that were in service (including the 52 PW 777s) still in storage.
 
Cmac787
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:13 pm

Also heard yesterday that IAD is adding a 4th bank in October
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:55 pm

Great news on NB returning to service, even if we should wonder if all Airbus 319/320 units in ROW and GYR will return. Many are pre-2000 builds.
UA mainline narrowbodies now over 600 (601 with 38M N7254 sked to PDX today). Excluding 752PW retired fleet.
My stats show today's NB operation: 468 flying, 2 in Induction, 22 short term parked and 109 stored/heavy maint.
 
Cmac787
Posts: 494
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:28 pm

Any news on the former WN/AirTran 700’s going into service??
calpsafltskeds wrote:
Great news on NB returning to service, even if we should wonder if all Airbus 319/320 units in ROW and GYR will return. Many are pre-2000 builds.
UA mainline narrowbodies now over 600 (601 with 38M N7254 sked to PDX today). Excluding 752PW retired fleet.
My stats show today's NB operation: 468 flying, 2 in Induction, 22 short term parked and 109 stored/heavy maint.
 
Cmac787
Posts: 494
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:33 pm

The whole FO side of the airplane is missing paint. It looks awful.


ChaseP wrote:
len90 wrote:
Aircraft #0127 DID NOT go to paint on Aug. 2nd as originally scheduled. Any reason why? Currently doing a bunch of transcon routes.


A/C 0127 didn't go into paint due to airport construction at Amarillo. That's what was communicated to me.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4824
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:31 pm

Cmac787 wrote:
The whole FO side of the airplane is missing paint. It looks awful.


ChaseP wrote:
len90 wrote:
Aircraft #0127 DID NOT go to paint on Aug. 2nd as originally scheduled. Any reason why? Currently doing a bunch of transcon routes.


A/C 0127 didn't go into paint due to airport construction at Amarillo. That's what was communicated to me.


Wasn’t the company trialing a paint maintenance program a few years ago? Basically finding opportunities to touch up the paint jobs on long sits. Not a factory fresh paint job of course, but just correcting areas where paint has flaked off.

I vaguely remember seeing an article on Flying Together about the first aircraft they did, I believe a HD 777. It seemed like a big deal. I am guessing that program never saw the light of day or was it cut entirely? Or am I completely dreaming this up?
 
audidudi
Posts: 3775
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:03 pm

The next 3 ex-easyJet A319s are at MAD awaiting ferrying to the US:

N6311U ex G-EZAK

N5317U ex G-EZAT

N8320U ex G-EZAX

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GEZAK

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GEZAT

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GEZAX
 
Mossimo
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:32 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:44 pm

audidudi wrote:
The next 3 ex-easyJet A319s are at MAD awaiting ferrying to the US:

N6311U ex G-EZAK

N5317U ex G-EZAT

N8320U ex G-EZAX

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GEZAK

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GEZAT

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GEZAX



Any updates if these are still planning to be sold or used for parts?
 
Cmac787
Posts: 494
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:36 am

That’s strange that it would go to PDX and not SEA. I didn’t know that they could induct planes there

calpsafltskeds wrote:
737MAX8 New delivery:
N17254 sked delivery flight 2711/5Aug BFI-PDX.
38M #5.
 
Cmac787
Posts: 494
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:53 am

N77066 767-400 headed to HKG for MX. that’s 3 767-400’s now in HKG. They are really starting to put them back in service
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:55 am

Cmac787 wrote:
That’s strange that it would go to PDX and not SEA. I didn’t know that they could induct planes there


United has it own hangar and line maintenance facilities in PDX so it isn't all that strange, also I don't think this isn't the first narrowbody aircraft UA has inducted at PDX. I think there were some MAX9s that went through their induction at PDX as well.
 
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calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3563
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:07 pm

PDX makes sense as UA has nine of the next twenty-one 38Ms line numbers and several are in Flight Testing. A couple have had BFI-SEA flights in FlightAware that have cancelled for unknown reasons.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2557
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:22 pm

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/08/06/uni ... IbkPMd-Iek

United to require all employees to be vaccinated?
If true good on United for taking a stand hopefully all the other airlines follow your lead.

Enjoy or Don’t
Flyguy
 
mah584jr
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:35 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:56 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/08/06/united-airlines-vaccine-mandate-employees.html?fbclid=IwAR2TAzGCQTFbSqn0DwH2AfTJzwi9dI2LftcotYPXpyF8b5Mp3IbkPMd-Iek

United to require all employees to be vaccinated?
If true good on United for taking a stand hopefully all the other airlines follow your lead.

Enjoy or Don’t
Flyguy


Hopefully steps like this will allow passengers and staff to fly without masks down the road at some point.
 
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ramprat74
Posts: 1419
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:01 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:13 pm

jayunited wrote:
Cmac787 wrote:
That’s strange that it would go to PDX and not SEA. I didn’t know that they could induct planes there


United has it own hangar and line maintenance facilities in PDX so it isn't all that strange, also I don't think this isn't the first narrowbody aircraft UA has inducted at PDX. I think there were some MAX9s that went through their induction at PDX as well.


United doesn’t have a hangar in PDX. The line maintenance department is growing though. United sent most of their new 777’s back in 1995 to PDX first because of tax reasons.

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