jbs2886 wrote:

Acey559 wrote:

avi8 wrote:

It will be interesting to see UA's response to the reopening of international borders. Any guesses on how UA might respond?

We have grown our widebody fleet, haven't permanently parked any fleets and have been hiring since March so hopefully the response will be appropriately aggressive once that finally starts happening.

A few thoughts here. I don't see a huge shift, with Europe making it a bit more difficult for Americans to travel to Europe, this may effectively balance out. Sure, there will be some increased demand in vacation destinations, but I don't see a big shift - it will just fill up existing flights with maybe a handful of additional frequencies.

Re: widebody fleet. A decent number are still parked (not including the PW 777s). Those won't be getting into the air quickly since they will need maintenance and MROs are heavily booked as I understand from this forum.

They actually arent making it more difficult. The Netherlands is reopening September 22 and as time goes on the others will follow.

But I do agree there wont be some big expansion. Id imagine IAH-AMS will come back and a few more routes from the other hubs.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

Acey559 wrote:

We have grown our widebody fleet, haven't permanently parked any fleets and have been hiring since March so hopefully the response will be appropriately aggressive once that finally starts happening.

A few thoughts here. I don't see a huge shift, with Europe making it a bit more difficult for Americans to travel to Europe, this may effectively balance out. Sure, there will be some increased demand in vacation destinations, but I don't see a big shift - it will just fill up existing flights with maybe a handful of additional frequencies.

Re: widebody fleet. A decent number are still parked (not including the PW 777s). Those won't be getting into the air quickly since they will need maintenance and MROs are heavily booked as I understand from this forum.

They actually arent making it more difficult. The Netherlands is reopening September 22 and as time goes on the others will follow.

But I do agree there wont be some big expansion. Id imagine IAH-AMS will come back and a few more routes from the other hubs.

There are some new restrictions in some countries - I'm thinking of quarantines for unvaccinated (instead of just a negative test) and testing requirements for vaccinated (previously no test).

audidudi wrote:

The next ex-EasyJet A319, G-EZIY, has ferried from QLA>EMA for painting as N3305U.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GEZIY

Wait, what’s going on with these? I thought the latest word was that the U2 CFM-powered birds will not join the fleet and will instead be sold.

Acey559 wrote:

avi8 wrote:

It will be interesting to see UA's response to the reopening of international borders. Any guesses on how UA might respond?

We have grown our widebody fleet, haven't permanently parked any fleets and have been hiring since March so hopefully the response will be appropriately aggressive once that finally starts happening.

I don't think you will see an aggressive expansion of international flights until spring of 2022. There may be a resumption of a few flights to destinations like LHR, CDG, and maybe AMS but for the most part I don't expect to see United resume much international flying until next year.

The up coming holiday season (Christmas) may provide a bump in passengers but once January 2022 arrives international passenger traffic may drop again. I don't think we will see any type of sustained growth across the Atlantic until spring. Also United does not expect to have the PW 777s back in service by early next year, so whatever comes back this year will for sure be limited and target to a few select destinations.

intotheair wrote:

audidudi wrote:

The next ex-EasyJet A319, G-EZIY, has ferried from QLA>EMA for painting as N3305U.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GEZIY

Wait, what’s going on with these? I thought the latest word was that the U2 CFM-powered birds will not join the fleet and will instead be sold.

They are (maybe not in one piece), but UA had committed to take them.

jayunited wrote:

Schedule updates for DEL

Starting today 9/9/2021 ORD-DEL increases from 3x weekly to 4x weekly (flight will not operate outbound on Monday, Wednesday, and Saturdays)
On yesterday9/8/2021 EWR-DEL reverted back to a 77W from the 789 that was temporarily on the route for the entire month of August.
No changes were made to SFO-DEL.

This current schedule should remain the same through October 29th.

Jay, I am seeing EWR - BOM and DEL go to 787-9 and 772 respectively for December in the reservation system. Any insights on the change in equipment given December is usually peak travel season?

Could UA replace their 19 77As with 78Js de-rated and reconfigured to a domestic high-density 30BF88Y+226Y layout? I could see UA doing an interior swap, the 789s would get the 78J’s Polaris/PP cabins while the 78Js would get the 789’s BusinessFirst and Economy plus seats.

UA857 wrote:

Could UA replace their 19 77As with 78Js de-rated and reconfigured to a domestic high-density 30BF88Y+226Y layout? I could see UA doing an interior swap, the 789s would get the 78J’s Polaris/PP cabins while the 78Js would get the 789’s BusinessFirst and Economy plus seats.

Not likely at all unless intercontinental demand craters which if anything, probably will see a bit of an upswing as entry requirements are revised. The 77A replacement, if anything would be the 767-400 and some 767-300ERs. Most 764s are still in storage, with a few brought back for HNL service, none have been Polaris'd and could be densified with a reduced business class cabin by removing a few rows of seats. Same for some 763s and a resulting decrease in capacity, with some additional 772s thrown in. Eventually, more 772ERs will find their way to retirement via the 77A replacements but not in the immediate given the refurbs are still quite recent.

Only 4 767-400’s left In storage. 2 just arrived in EWR from HKG. 3 are in HKG MX

ContinentalEWR wrote:

UA857 wrote:

Could UA replace their 19 77As with 78Js de-rated and reconfigured to a domestic high-density 30BF88Y+226Y layout? I could see UA doing an interior swap, the 789s would get the 78J’s Polaris/PP cabins while the 78Js would get the 789’s BusinessFirst and Economy plus seats.

Not likely at all unless intercontinental demand craters which if anything, probably will see a bit of an upswing as entry requirements are revised. The 77A replacement, if anything would be the 767-400 and some 767-300ERs. Most 764s are still in storage, with a few brought back for HNL service, none have been Polaris'd and could be densified with a reduced business class cabin by removing a few rows of seats. Same for some 763s and a resulting decrease in capacity, with some additional 772s thrown in. Eventually, more 772ERs will find their way to retirement via the 77A replacements but not in the immediate given the refurbs are still quite recent.

N821UA A319 entered VCV paint for Evo blue livery
N19136 757-200 has entered AMA paint for Evo blue livery 20Sep

Cmac787 wrote:

Only 4 767-400’s left In storage. 2 just arrived in EWR from HKG. 3 are in HKG MX

ContinentalEWR wrote:

UA857 wrote:

Could UA replace their 19 77As with 78Js de-rated and reconfigured to a domestic high-density 30BF88Y+226Y layout? I could see UA doing an interior swap, the 789s would get the 78J’s Polaris/PP cabins while the 78Js would get the 789’s BusinessFirst and Economy plus seats.

Not likely at all unless intercontinental demand craters which if anything, probably will see a bit of an upswing as entry requirements are revised. The 77A replacement, if anything would be the 767-400 and some 767-300ERs. Most 764s are still in storage, with a few brought back for HNL service, none have been Polaris'd and could be densified with a reduced business class cabin by removing a few rows of seats. Same for some 763s and a resulting decrease in capacity, with some additional 772s thrown in. Eventually, more 772ERs will find their way to retirement via the 77A replacements but not in the immediate given the refurbs are still quite recent.

Any of those 764s undergoing mods in HKG MX?

No. Just heavy MX.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Cmac787 wrote:

Only 4 767-400’s left In storage. 2 just arrived in EWR from HKG. 3 are in HKG MX

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Not likely at all unless intercontinental demand craters which if anything, probably will see a bit of an upswing as entry requirements are revised. The 77A replacement, if anything would be the 767-400 and some 767-300ERs. Most 764s are still in storage, with a few brought back for HNL service, none have been Polaris'd and could be densified with a reduced business class cabin by removing a few rows of seats. Same for some 763s and a resulting decrease in capacity, with some additional 772s thrown in. Eventually, more 772ERs will find their way to retirement via the 77A replacements but not in the immediate given the refurbs are still quite recent.

Any of those 764s undergoing mods in HKG MX?

Cmac787 wrote:

No. Just heavy MX.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Cmac787 wrote:

Only 4 767-400’s left In storage. 2 just arrived in EWR from HKG. 3 are in HKG MX

Any of those 764s undergoing mods in HKG MX?

Thanks. No mods probably make these frames good 77A replacements.

I probably should have posted this some time ago but I completely forgot. October is right around the corner and with that runway 22L/4R at EWR is scheduled to reopen during certain hours of the day.

With that in mind United will add up 68 additional departures per day (on busy days) from EWR, this will push United's EWR daily departure to 320 per day on our busiest days. EWR's busiest days during this pandemic have been (in no particular order) Sunday, Monday, Thursday, Friday and some Saturdays. So finally some great news for United at EWR once that runway reopens.

sshank wrote:

Jay, I am seeing EWR - BOM and DEL go to 787-9 and 772 respectively for December in the reservation system. Any insights on the change in equipment given December is usually peak travel season?

I need to do research into this to find out why I don't want to speculate and give wrong information especially with them scheduling a 77E on EWR-DEL. That alone is a recipe for daily weight restriction but at least it is cool enough we won't be holding off customers but we will have to hold off cargo in both directions if the 77E returns to this route. The 789 on EWR-BOM wont be weight restricted but it of course represents a sizeable drop in total seats on the route. It also raises the question where is United re-deploying those 77Ws that operate those routes? In the middle of a pandemic there isn't that many destinations in need of a 77W during the month of December.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Cmac787 wrote:

No. Just heavy MX.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Any of those 764s undergoing mods in HKG MX?

Thanks. No mods probably make these frames good 77A replacements.

The 764 simply does not haul enough volume to be a 77A replacement at UA. It has a role in the network but it’s not going to be a domestic people mover. UA execs basically said as much in the 2Q call. They are getting Polaris mods starting later this year.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

UA857 wrote:

Could UA replace their 19 77As with 78Js de-rated and reconfigured to a domestic high-density 30BF88Y+226Y layout? I could see UA doing an interior swap, the 789s would get the 78J’s Polaris/PP cabins while the 78Js would get the 789’s BusinessFirst and Economy plus seats.

Not likely at all unless intercontinental demand craters which if anything, probably will see a bit of an upswing as entry requirements are revised. The 77A replacement, if anything would be the 767-400 and some 767-300ERs. Most 764s are still in storage, with a few brought back for HNL service, none have been Polaris'd and could be densified with a reduced business class cabin by removing a few rows of seats. Same for some 763s and a resulting decrease in capacity, with some additional 772s thrown in. Eventually, more 772ERs will find their way to retirement via the 77A replacements but not in the immediate given the refurbs are still quite recent.

With the A359 on order, UA could have all 78Js flying interhub domestic/transcontinental and Hawaiian routes. While the A359 can be a great replacement for the 77E on TPAC/TATL/LATAM routes. The 78J would be a great replacement for the 77A on interhub domestic/transcontinental and select Hawaiian routes.

I am surprised no one is talking more about the return to Lagos. This will be the third time UA has served Lagos. LOS was flown from IAD premerger (was it via ACC?). Then it ran from IAH for several year until it was dropped again. It supposedly was due to currency conversion and repatriation problems back then. And both destinations involve the oil industry as well. But DL has served LOS uninterrupted. UA seems very interested in Africa now, so let's see how this one works out. I remember at one time they wanted to serve LOS from EWR years ago but the Nigerian government didn't approve. Maybe someone else knows more.

Interesting idea to save money by swapping 78X Polaris seats with 789 Diamond seats. The decision to fly at least some 78X units on domestic/HI would have to be made now as 789 Diamond aircraft are close to 78X numbers. However, UA may have purchased Polaris seats for the 789s remaining. In any case, the 359 couldn't be part of that decision. 359s should replace 772ER units.

If the 772A is retired, it might make more sense to keep the twelve 2001 and newer 772ERPW units and convert to domestic. Supplement those units with the 764 for a fleet of 28 Domestic/HI units, all capable of any route and 2 different seats sizes for routes like IAD-HNL and transcons that the 772 domestic aircraft might be too large.. UA would have to cancel the 764 Polaris mod quickly to make such a move. That entire domestic fleet would be over 25 years old in 2027 when the 259 arrives.

Unfortunately, converting 772ERs to domestic would trash 8 seat sets of 772 PolarisPP seats that wouldn't be used unless UA bought some more 77Ws. Of course UA could fly Polaris seats on Domestic/HI with a modified Y heavy cabin layout. Note that 8 772ERs Polaris International units converted to a Polaris domestic config would provide 32+ seats for all 12 domestic units in that scenario as 4 have not received Polaris.

jayunited wrote:

Acey559 wrote:

avi8 wrote:

It will be interesting to see UA's response to the reopening of international borders. Any guesses on how UA might respond?

We have grown our widebody fleet, haven't permanently parked any fleets and have been hiring since March so hopefully the response will be appropriately aggressive once that finally starts happening.

I don't think you will see an aggressive expansion of international flights until spring of 2022. There may be a resumption of a few flights to destinations like LHR, CDG, and maybe AMS but for the most part I don't expect to see United resume much international flying until next year.

The up coming holiday season (Christmas) may provide a bump in passengers but once January 2022 arrives international passenger traffic may drop again. I don't think we will see any type of sustained growth across the Atlantic until spring. Also United does not expect to have the PW 777s back in service by early next year, so whatever comes back this year will for sure be limited and target to a few select destinations.

I appreciate your insight and I didn't mean to imply that we would be more aggressive, more just wishful thinking, especially now that I'm back on a global fleet after having been on the Airbus for most of COVID. But any normalization is great to see and I hope it continues.

UA857 wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

UA857 wrote:

Could UA replace their 19 77As with 78Js de-rated and reconfigured to a domestic high-density 30BF88Y+226Y layout? I could see UA doing an interior swap, the 789s would get the 78J’s Polaris/PP cabins while the 78Js would get the 789’s BusinessFirst and Economy plus seats.

Not likely at all unless intercontinental demand craters which if anything, probably will see a bit of an upswing as entry requirements are revised. The 77A replacement, if anything would be the 767-400 and some 767-300ERs. Most 764s are still in storage, with a few brought back for HNL service, none have been Polaris'd and could be densified with a reduced business class cabin by removing a few rows of seats. Same for some 763s and a resulting decrease in capacity, with some additional 772s thrown in. Eventually, more 772ERs will find their way to retirement via the 77A replacements but not in the immediate given the refurbs are still quite recent.

With the A359 on order, UA could have all 78Js flying interhub domestic/transcontinental and Hawaiian routes. While the A359 can be a great replacement for the 77E on TPAC/TATL/LATAM routes. The 78J would be a great replacement for the 77A on interhub domestic/transcontinental and select Hawaiian routes.

That assumes the A359 order, a holdover from the pre-merger days and a then solution to replace UA's 747-400 fleet goes through. It would not surprise if UA ended up cancelling the A359 entirely and using the order and down payments toward more 321s and other Airbus jets to replace the 320/319 fleet. I agree the 78J is the capacity solution for the 77A replacement but not so sure the 359 is the replacement aircraft for the 77Es. Last year Kirby made it clear the 787 is the future of UA long haul flying (it was not specific to just international vs domestic) and a further 787 order down the road could be the 77E replacement.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

UA857 wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Not likely at all unless intercontinental demand craters which if anything, probably will see a bit of an upswing as entry requirements are revised. The 77A replacement, if anything would be the 767-400 and some 767-300ERs. Most 764s are still in storage, with a few brought back for HNL service, none have been Polaris'd and could be densified with a reduced business class cabin by removing a few rows of seats. Same for some 763s and a resulting decrease in capacity, with some additional 772s thrown in. Eventually, more 772ERs will find their way to retirement via the 77A replacements but not in the immediate given the refurbs are still quite recent.

With the A359 on order, UA could have all 78Js flying interhub domestic/transcontinental and Hawaiian routes. While the A359 can be a great replacement for the 77E on TPAC/TATL/LATAM routes. The 78J would be a great replacement for the 77A on interhub domestic/transcontinental and select Hawaiian routes.

That assumes the A359 order, a holdover from the pre-merger days and a then solution to replace UA's 747-400 fleet goes through. It would not surprise if UA ended up cancelling the A359 entirely and using the order and down payments toward more 321s and other Airbus jets to replace the 320/319 fleet. I agree the 78J is the capacity solution for the 77A replacement but not so sure the 359 is the replacement aircraft for the 77Es. Last year Kirby made it clear the 787 is the future of UA long haul flying (it was not specific to just international vs domestic) and a further 787 order down the road could be the 77E replacement.

Internally, UA is telling pilots that the A350 order is on the “back burner” for now. No current plans to take delivery. Doesn’t mean it’s a definite cancel, but clearly there are no intentions to take them in the next 3-4 years (my guess).

codc10 wrote:

Internally, UA is telling pilots that the A350 order is on the “back burner” for now. No current plans to take delivery. Doesn’t mean it’s a definite cancel, but clearly there are no intentions to take them in the next 3-4 years (my guess).

Airbus thought they had an opening, in fact telling United back in April they would be more than willing to move up delivery dates for the A359 if things didn't progress a certain way with the PW 777 fleet. Something United spoke publicly about during an internal NOC town hall in April when asked what our contingency plan was if we couldn't return the PW 777 fleet to service.

However a lot has changed since the early days and months of the PW 777 grounding. Boeing has come up with a fix that strengthens the engine cowling, United together with Pratt & Whitney and Boeing has come up with a whole new way to inspect the fan blades on the PW fleet which will be done in addition to the TAI. The FAA continues its review of all the changes and has cleared United to at the very least begin work on the PW 777 fleet. We've replaced fan blades on quite a few 77A models. All of the PW 77Es passes no cracks were found in those fan blades, the changes that wills strengthen the engine cowling are ongoing so whenever the FAA does sign off and unground the PW 777 fleet United is ready to put these planes back into service.

With all the recent news around the PW fleet it doesn't surprise me to hear United tell the pilots the A350 order is back on the back burner, but I have to give Airbus credit for trying to turn this situation in their favor. They immediately approach United once the scope of the problem became clear to try and move up the delivery date for the A359s . However as fate would have it the 777s are coming back and the A359 order still dangles in the background with a 2027 delivery date that may or may not happen only time will tell.

jayunited wrote:

codc10 wrote:

Internally, UA is telling pilots that the A350 order is on the “back burner” for now. No current plans to take delivery. Doesn’t mean it’s a definite cancel, but clearly there are no intentions to take them in the next 3-4 years (my guess).

Airbus thought they had an opening, in fact telling United back in April they would be more than willing to move up delivery dates for the A359 if things didn't progress a certain way with the PW 777 fleet. Something United spoke publicly about during an internal NOC town hall in April when asked what our contingency plan was if we couldn't return the PW 777 fleet to service.

However a lot has changed since the early days and months of the PW 777 grounding. Boeing has come up with a fix that strengthens the engine cowling, United together with Pratt & Whitney and Boeing has come up with a whole new way to inspect the fan blades on the PW fleet which will be done in addition to the TAI. The FAA continues its review of all the changes and has cleared United to at the very least begin work on the PW 777 fleet. We've replaced fan blades on quite a few 77A models. All of the PW 77Es passes no cracks were found in those fan blades, the changes that wills strengthen the engine cowling are ongoing so whenever the FAA does sign off and unground the PW 777 fleet United is ready to put these planes back into service.

With all the recent news around the PW fleet it doesn't surprise me to hear United tell the pilots the A350 order is back on the back burner, but I have to give Airbus credit for trying to turn this situation in their favor. They immediately approach United once the scope of the problem became clear to try and move up the delivery date for the A359s . However as fate would have it the 777s are coming back and the A359 order still dangles in the background with a 2027 delivery date that may or may not happen only time will tell.

Well said, Jay. I applaud the Airbus approach to move this up.

The only thing in the whole deal with the PW 777's that is weird is the 77A models. Terrible pax experience, oldest model, some odd spare parts, etc. Why keep them? Especially with 7 x 78J's coming on + pandemic lower volumes for a bit + potential for more 787's within the timeframe where capacity comes back. With all that being said, better go to Hawaii now on a 77W or 787, because that will flip at some point back to the equivalent of a greyhound bus. I'm assuming the one oddball retrofitted 77A model will just be a charter unit in the future or something? No real way that the 77A retrofit program continues, right?

jayunited wrote:

codc10 wrote:

Internally, UA is telling pilots that the A350 order is on the “back burner” for now. No current plans to take delivery. Doesn’t mean it’s a definite cancel, but clearly there are no intentions to take them in the next 3-4 years (my guess).

Airbus thought they had an opening, in fact telling United back in April they would be more than willing to move up delivery dates for the A359 if things didn't progress a certain way with the PW 777 fleet. Something United spoke publicly about during an internal NOC town hall in April when asked what our contingency plan was if we couldn't return the PW 777 fleet to service.

However a lot has changed since the early days and months of the PW 777 grounding. Boeing has come up with a fix that strengthens the engine cowling, United together with Pratt & Whitney and Boeing has come up with a whole new way to inspect the fan blades on the PW fleet which will be done in addition to the TAI. The FAA continues its review of all the changes and has cleared United to at the very least begin work on the PW 777 fleet. We've replaced fan blades on quite a few 77A models. All of the PW 77Es passes no cracks were found in those fan blades, the changes that wills strengthen the engine cowling are ongoing so whenever the FAA does sign off and unground the PW 777 fleet United is ready to put these planes back into service.

With all the recent news around the PW fleet it doesn't surprise me to hear United tell the pilots the A350 order is back on the back burner, but I have to give Airbus credit for trying to turn this situation in their favor. They immediately approach United once the scope of the problem became clear to try and move up the delivery date for the A359s . However as fate would have it the 777s are coming back and the A359 order still dangles in the background with a 2027 delivery date that may or may not happen only time will tell.

That makes perfect sense. When it’s all said and done, the PW 777s basically gained 1-2 more calendar years of service, owing to the lack of flying due to COVID and subsequent grounding. No reason to undertake the additional capex of the 359s right now with current debt levels and 30+ depreciated 77Es with all-new interiors.

By the time the 77Es are ready for retirement toward the end of this decade, we might see an UltraFan or comparable A350neo approaching service entry.

fun2fly wrote:

The only thing in the whole deal with the PW 777's that is weird is the 77A models. Terrible pax experience, oldest model, some odd spare parts, etc. Why keep them? Especially with 7 x 78J's coming on + pandemic lower volumes for a bit + potential for more 787's within the timeframe where capacity comes back. With all that being said, better go to Hawaii now on a 77W or 787, because that will flip at some point back to the equivalent of a greyhound bus. I'm assuming the one oddball retrofitted 77A model will just be a charter unit in the future or something? No real way that the 77A retrofit program continues, right?

In the various conferences/announcements over the summer, it was strongly suggested that *all* widebodies would have a consistent product, and it spurred rumors of a Polaris mod coming to the domestic fleet. I’m not sure if that smoke led to any fire, but the statement seemed carefully-worded. Time will tell.

As for the one 77E converted to domestic (77O), that ship flew in a normal rotation with the other 77G/77M. No reason to think that would change. I assume the 3 remaining F/J/Y IPTE ships will be reconfigured eventually. I seriously doubt they’ll return to service in the IPTE configuration.

N2136U 777-300 scheduled to enter HKGMX 22Sep
N2243U 777-300 scheduled to exit HKGMX 22Sep

MO11 wrote:

intotheair wrote:

audidudi wrote:

The next ex-EasyJet A319, G-EZIY, has ferried from QLA>EMA for painting as N3305U.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GEZIY

Wait, what’s going on with these? I thought the latest word was that the U2 CFM-powered birds will not join the fleet and will instead be sold.

They are (maybe not in one piece), but UA had committed to take them.

This is anecdotal at best, but 10 tail numbers that belong to the former EasyJet birds are listed in a reset procedure in the Airbus Flight Manual which is specific to those aircraft and 3 former China Southern Aircraft. The page was last revised in February of this year. The reset procedure is for the WiFi, which looking at a pictures of some of those Easyjet planes is not installed (no bubble on the top of the fuselage). Things that make you go hmmm

adamblang wrote:

United’s 3 new long-haul routes are coming back for another season - The Points Guy

Over the weekend, the Chicago-based carrier filed a notable schedule update for its international network, bringing back three of its newest long-haul routes for summer 2022, including:

Newark (EWR) — Dubrovnik (DBV), four times weekly from May 27, 2022
Washington/Dulles (IAD) — Athens (ATH), daily from June 3, 2022
Chicago (ORD) — Reykjavik (KEF), daily from May 26, 2022

Currently scheduled with low-J 767-300ER, 787-8, and 757-200, respectively.

Interesting. DL's schedule update came with mostly opposite news for the same destinations (DBV dropped, BOS-KEF dropped, but ATL-ATH continued).

adamblang wrote:

United’s 3 new long-haul routes are coming back for another season - The Points Guy

Over the weekend, the Chicago-based carrier filed a notable schedule update for its international network, bringing back three of its newest long-haul routes for summer 2022, including:

Newark (EWR) — Dubrovnik (DBV), four times weekly from May 27, 2022
Washington/Dulles (IAD) — Athens (ATH), daily from June 3, 2022
Chicago (ORD) — Reykjavik (KEF), daily from May 26, 2022

Currently scheduled with low-J 767-300ER, 787-8, and 757-200, respectively.

Of course, all three appeared to do quite well. Summer 2022 is going to be huge for TATL.. I expect to see some other exciting new destinations in the works.

When might UA bring back IAH-Western Canada? WS is flying YYC-IAH 2x daily so the market must be materializing.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

When might UA bring back IAH-Western Canada? WS is flying YYC-IAH 2x daily so the market must be materializing.

WS isn't flying 2x daily YYC-IAH right now (that's in their placeholder schedule). Right now it's at 3x weekly (Fri, Sun, Mon). That being said, IAH-YYC has always been a VERY strong U.S.-Canada route, so I imagine that demand will return quicker on that route than with most other transborder routes.

It looks like UA has pushed that route all the way back to January 4; I figured AC/UA would have resumed the route before WS. Is the point-of-sale for this route mainly geared towards Canadian pax or U.S. pax?

fun2fly wrote:

jayunited wrote:

codc10 wrote:

Internally, UA is telling pilots that the A350 order is on the “back burner” for now. No current plans to take delivery. Doesn’t mean it’s a definite cancel, but clearly there are no intentions to take them in the next 3-4 years (my guess).

Airbus thought they had an opening, in fact telling United back in April they would be more than willing to move up delivery dates for the A359 if things didn't progress a certain way with the PW 777 fleet. Something United spoke publicly about during an internal NOC town hall in April when asked what our contingency plan was if we couldn't return the PW 777 fleet to service.

However a lot has changed since the early days and months of the PW 777 grounding. Boeing has come up with a fix that strengthens the engine cowling, United together with Pratt & Whitney and Boeing has come up with a whole new way to inspect the fan blades on the PW fleet which will be done in addition to the TAI. The FAA continues its review of all the changes and has cleared United to at the very least begin work on the PW 777 fleet. We've replaced fan blades on quite a few 77A models. All of the PW 77Es passes no cracks were found in those fan blades, the changes that wills strengthen the engine cowling are ongoing so whenever the FAA does sign off and unground the PW 777 fleet United is ready to put these planes back into service.

With all the recent news around the PW fleet it doesn't surprise me to hear United tell the pilots the A350 order is back on the back burner, but I have to give Airbus credit for trying to turn this situation in their favor. They immediately approach United once the scope of the problem became clear to try and move up the delivery date for the A359s . However as fate would have it the 777s are coming back and the A359 order still dangles in the background with a 2027 delivery date that may or may not happen only time will tell.

Well said, Jay. I applaud the Airbus approach to move this up.

The only thing in the whole deal with the PW 777's that is weird is the 77A models. Terrible pax experience, oldest model, some odd spare parts, etc. Why keep them? Especially with 7 x 78J's coming on + pandemic lower volumes for a bit + potential for more 787's within the timeframe where capacity comes back. With all that being said, better go to Hawaii now on a 77W or 787, because that will flip at some point back to the equivalent of a greyhound bus. I'm assuming the one oddball retrofitted 77A model will just be a charter unit in the future or something? No real way that the 77A retrofit program continues, right?

If the 77As come back then the plan is to retrofit them to the 770 (New domestic config with in seat VOD). When that happens then on board experience in Economy wouldn't really be any different then a 77W (including seat pitch).

Do we know if the November schedule is firm?

Pinto wrote:

fun2fly wrote:

jayunited wrote:

Airbus thought they had an opening, in fact telling United back in April they would be more than willing to move up delivery dates for the A359 if things didn't progress a certain way with the PW 777 fleet. Something United spoke publicly about during an internal NOC town hall in April when asked what our contingency plan was if we couldn't return the PW 777 fleet to service.

However a lot has changed since the early days and months of the PW 777 grounding. Boeing has come up with a fix that strengthens the engine cowling, United together with Pratt & Whitney and Boeing has come up with a whole new way to inspect the fan blades on the PW fleet which will be done in addition to the TAI. The FAA continues its review of all the changes and has cleared United to at the very least begin work on the PW 777 fleet. We've replaced fan blades on quite a few 77A models. All of the PW 77Es passes no cracks were found in those fan blades, the changes that wills strengthen the engine cowling are ongoing so whenever the FAA does sign off and unground the PW 777 fleet United is ready to put these planes back into service.

With all the recent news around the PW fleet it doesn't surprise me to hear United tell the pilots the A350 order is back on the back burner, but I have to give Airbus credit for trying to turn this situation in their favor. They immediately approach United once the scope of the problem became clear to try and move up the delivery date for the A359s . However as fate would have it the 777s are coming back and the A359 order still dangles in the background with a 2027 delivery date that may or may not happen only time will tell.

Well said, Jay. I applaud the Airbus approach to move this up.

The only thing in the whole deal with the PW 777's that is weird is the 77A models. Terrible pax experience, oldest model, some odd spare parts, etc. Why keep them? Especially with 7 x 78J's coming on + pandemic lower volumes for a bit + potential for more 787's within the timeframe where capacity comes back. With all that being said, better go to Hawaii now on a 77W or 787, because that will flip at some point back to the equivalent of a greyhound bus. I'm assuming the one oddball retrofitted 77A model will just be a charter unit in the future or something? No real way that the 77A retrofit program continues, right?

If the 77As come back then the plan is to retrofit them to the 770 (New domestic config with in seat VOD). When that happens then on board experience in Economy wouldn't really be any different then a 77W (including seat pitch).

Does that value prop still apply to a 1995/1996 77A model? Seems like a lot of $$, not sure of the useful life. I'm sure it's well thought out. I assume the 764's will go first before the 77A's? Agreed, the 3 IPTE frame should not fly until converted.

adamblang wrote:

The pandemic has turned United Airlines into a thriving freight company - Quartz

This summer, Nocella appeared that consumer demand for air travel was recovering because it forced United to divert planes from profitable cargo routes to carry passengers instead. “We are not going to be able to do more cargo-only flights,” he said on a July 21 earnings call. “We’re obviously disappointed by that given where yields currently stand.” United’s passenger flights are still running half-empty as a pandemic-wary public shies away from travel, while cargo space remains at a premium.

That calculus has now shifted United’s strategy. At the Cowen conference in September, Nocella said the company was reversing its earlier decision to cancel cargo-only flights in favor of passenger routes and expected United to keep raking in big cargo revenues into the future. “I just released five 777-300s to our cargo division for later this year to put those aircraft back into all-cargo markets based on the dynamics we’re seeing in the marketplace today,” Nocella said.

Seems like we'll see an uptick of cargo-only flights.

This might be where some of the 777-300ERs that've disappeared from the schedule in lieu of 787-9s and 777-200ERs went?

Thank you for finding this article.

I'm not mad at United for pulling widebodies off some international routes later this year as demand for international passengers flights fall in favor of cargo only routes. As much push back as there has been from people on this site over cargo only routes and cargo rates, cargo-only was United's savior for most of this pandemic, it is good to see United going back to cargo-only routes to help get us through through Winter 2021/2022. Even with the US reopening borders November 1st I don't think there will be a sustained surge in international travel from December through Mid-March, might as well bring back cargo-only routes to get us through the winter months.

adamblang wrote:

We often wonder in this thread about how UA stacks up against DL, AA, B6, and AA+B6 in the NYC area.

In the DOJ sues to block AA - B6 Northeast partnership thread, Midwestindy posted this chart which I thought interesting:



I didn't know UA was the number of nonstops leader, the O&D coverage leader, or the long-haul leader in the market. I also didn't realize how far behind AA was.

I wonder if the DOJ objecting to the AA+B6 tie up results in a few JFK slots shaking free for UA.

You beat me to it. I think it will result in a compromise slot release, although I don't know if UA will benefit, or if they will encourage them to go to LCC's. If the DOJ actually did stop this partnership completely, I don't know how they could allow AA+AS to continue either.

I always have mixed feelings when the DOJ wants to boost competition with LCC's. It depends what type of competition we're talking about. UA has far less competition at EWR, which is why they offer service to more markets. If WN, F9, NK or others were given slots at JFK, the routes they would add competition to would be the already busy and competitive ones, like ORD, DCA, MCO, FLL, and not only would they not start start new service to SYR, BUF, DAY and CMH, but AA and B6 would probably drop those routes as well, as they would have fewer slots to serve with. Small markets may be overpriced without competition, but sometimes that's the only way they have service at all.

I just finished training and my instructor told us that they were just informed that the whole 764 fleet will start getting the new Polaris retrofit soon. No mention of a time-line but that's definitely good news. Seems to give a bit of insight into the long-term plans for the -400 which is welcome.

cosyr wrote:

adamblang wrote:

We often wonder in this thread about how UA stacks up against DL, AA, B6, and AA+B6 in the NYC area.

In the DOJ sues to block AA - B6 Northeast partnership thread, Midwestindy posted this chart which I thought interesting:



I didn't know UA was the number of nonstops leader, the O&D coverage leader, or the long-haul leader in the market. I also didn't realize how far behind AA was.

I wonder if the DOJ objecting to the AA+B6 tie up results in a few JFK slots shaking free for UA.

You beat me to it. I think it will result in a compromise slot release, although I don't know if UA will benefit, or if they will encourage them to go to LCC's. If the DOJ actually did stop this partnership completely, I don't know how they could allow AA+AS to continue either.

I always have mixed feelings when the DOJ wants to boost competition with LCC's. It depends what type of competition we're talking about. UA has far less competition at EWR, which is why they offer service to more markets. If WN, F9, NK or others were given slots at JFK, the routes they would add competition to would be the already busy and competitive ones, like ORD, DCA, MCO, FLL, and not only would they not start start new service to SYR, BUF, DAY and CMH, but AA and B6 would probably drop those routes as well, as they would have fewer slots to serve with. Small markets may be overpriced without competition, but sometimes that's the only way they have service at all.

I think I see the point you’re trying to make but that’s an odd mix of non-“busy+competitive” airports to use. Today’s departures to NYC airports:

SYR: 5
BUF: 8
DAY: 0
CMH: 10

I can’t speak for the other airports you listed (except poor DAY who will happily take any service to NYC on any airline at this point), but AA will not be dropping CMH-NYC regardless of the slot situation. They are the #1 or #2 carrier at CMH (depending on month) with a strong FF base. In fact, service to JFK on both AA and DL which has been suspended since COVID, is scheduled to return in early November which will make a day like today 14x on CMH-NYC. If some or all of these JFK slots were given to an LCC, DL might cut down from 3x daily but AA isn’t going anywhere.

jayunited wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

aircountry wrote:

Any update about IAH-SYD?

It’s going to be years if ever.

I'm willing to wager (figuratively speaking of course) if Australia is reopen to international travel that IAH-SYD may resume on October 30, 2022 along with LAX/SFO-MEL. There is so much pent up demand for travel to/from Australia on both sides of the Pacific UA may just surprise us all and resume these flights far earlier than any of us expect.

You're bold, to say the least. I certainly wouldn't be sticking my neck out on that.... most evidence points to further delays in resumption of international flying on any significant scale, from Australia/NZ.

adamblang wrote:

I wonder if the DOJ objecting to the AA+B6 tie up results in a few JFK slots shaking free for UA.

Bingo.

I suspect it's no coincidence that Kirby has been out in public heaping praise on this admin over the last few weeks... if any slot divestiture is required at JFK, there is little doubt they'd go to UA. WN, F9, NK clearly don't want in at JFK, costs are too high for Avelo/Breeze, and the DOJ wouldn't mandate a slot divestiture at a domestic airport, for domestic entities, for the direct benefit of a foreign operator.

Even if slots were to be made available at market rate, UA would still be in the game. This would not surprise me... when commercial measures fail, go to the government!

Acey559 wrote:

I just finished training and my instructor told us that they were just informed that the whole 764 fleet will start getting the new Polaris retrofit soon. No mention of a time-line but that's definitely good news. Seems to give a bit of insight into the long-term plans for the -400 which is welcome.

I’m not to sure about this. The company has stated in past townhalls that they wanted to get Polaris in the remaining 16 787-9 before they put Polaris in the 764. The EWR townhall yesterday said they were not putting Polaris in the 764 anytime soon.

So far, it appears that United is feeling fairly good about their present position. Capacity and capability wise, are they in the best position to restore Transatlantic travel routes with any sudden spike in demand?

sldispatcher wrote:

So far, it appears that United is feeling fairly good about their present position. Capacity and capability wise, are they in the best position to restore Transatlantic travel routes with any sudden spike in demand?

Yes.

UAL kept all it’s international aircraft and pilots intact during the downturn. There’s a the issue with the PW powered 777s, but even that’s finally making progress. Meanwhile, the 763s and 764s are coming out of storage and available.

Please keep this thread on topic. Discussions about slots related to other airlines belongs in other more appropriate topics.

✈️ atcsundevil

Tristar328 wrote:

Acey559 wrote:

I just finished training and my instructor told us that they were just informed that the whole 764 fleet will start getting the new Polaris retrofit soon. No mention of a time-line but that's definitely good news. Seems to give a bit of insight into the long-term plans for the -400 which is welcome.

I’m not to sure about this. The company has stated in past townhalls that they wanted to get Polaris in the remaining 16 787-9 before they put Polaris in the 764. The EWR townhall yesterday said they were not putting Polaris in the 764 anytime soon.

Unless things have changed since July (certainly possible) 764 Polaris mods will start after the 763 program completes, around the end of the year. 764s are going to be done at HKG, while 789s are at XMN.

codc10 wrote:

Tristar328 wrote:

Acey559 wrote:

I just finished training and my instructor told us that they were just informed that the whole 764 fleet will start getting the new Polaris retrofit soon. No mention of a time-line but that's definitely good news. Seems to give a bit of insight into the long-term plans for the -400 which is welcome.

I’m not to sure about this. The company has stated in past townhalls that they wanted to get Polaris in the remaining 16 787-9 before they put Polaris in the 764. The EWR townhall yesterday said they were not putting Polaris in the 764 anytime soon.

Unless things have changed since July (certainly possible) 764 Polaris mods will start after the 763 program completes, around the end of the year. 764s are going to be done at HKG, while 789s are at XMN.

All four remaining going HiJ 76L?

N657UA 6457
N658UA 6458
N661UA 6461
N663UA 6463

fun2fly wrote:

codc10 wrote:

Tristar328 wrote:

I’m not to sure about this. The company has stated in past townhalls that they wanted to get Polaris in the remaining 16 787-9 before they put Polaris in the 764. The EWR townhall yesterday said they were not putting Polaris in the 764 anytime soon.

Unless things have changed since July (certainly possible) 764 Polaris mods will start after the 763 program completes, around the end of the year. 764s are going to be done at HKG, while 789s are at XMN.

All four remaining going HiJ 76L?

N657UA 6457
N658UA 6458
N661UA 6461
N663UA 6463

I believe 6463 is going 76L too, while the others (6457/58/61) were planned to go 76A.

adamblang wrote:

We often wonder in this thread about how UA stacks up against DL, AA, B6, and AA+B6 in the NYC area.

In the DOJ sues to block AA - B6 Northeast partnership thread, Midwestindy posted this chart which I thought interesting:



I didn't know UA was the number of nonstops leader, the O&D coverage leader, or the long-haul leader in the market. I also didn't realize how far behind AA was.

I wonder if the DOJ objecting to the AA+B6 tie up results in a few JFK slots shaking free for UA.

AA has been fading in NYC for a long time. CO was number one in the market long ago and only DL has been a rival over the years. UA having a single hub at EWR will always be at an advantage over a split operations at LGA/JFK regardless of what airline trying running that.