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AndoAv8R
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:29 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:53 pm

Maybe im blind but it looks like it only broke into 2 sections, with the break right forward of the wing? If so thats still not bad given how rough the waters can be where it hit. And I dont see the cockpit window/cabin doors open, so if they had to escape through where it broke in half someone upstairs must've been looking out for them. Cant wait to hear them talk about it
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:07 pm

Transair has been grounded by FAA due to month long investigation that found Rhodes Aviation has serious maintenance deficiencies.

https://twitter.com/petemuntean/status/ ... 96740?s=19
 
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bikerthai
Posts: 4121
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:45 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:56 pm

Heinkel wrote:
That was the reason for my recommendation, not to sit in front of the wings on a B737.


The reasoning is sound. You are trading off an improved crash landing survival rate to a very unlikely event vs. The ability to get off the plane sooner than those in the back.

I have never traveled first/business class on A 737/A320, but given a choice I will select the seats further back.

One of the passenger in first class who perished in the Turkish crash was a colleague.

For those interested, note that the 757 fuselage, pictured above, also show a break after of the main wheel well. So the "stout" section of an aircraft do extend aft of the wing box to the wheel well. This is because the wheel well has a keel beam that provide vertical stiffness/strength not typically found in other parts of an aircraft.

bt
 
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zeke
Posts: 16329
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:23 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Transair has been grounded by FAA due to month long investigation that found Rhodes Aviation has serious maintenance deficiencies.

https://twitter.com/petemuntean/status/ ... 96740?s=19


Interesting development that the FAA was looking at suspending their maintenance authority 2 weeks prior to the crash.
 
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DocLightning
Posts: 22230
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:34 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Transair has been grounded by FAA due to month long investigation that found Rhodes Aviation has serious maintenance deficiencies.

https://twitter.com/petemuntean/status/ ... 96740?s=19


Ruh-roh.

OK, so what maintenance issue would cause both engines to flame out that has nothing to do with fuel contamination?
 
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VDemerest
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:21 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:42 pm

I flew this particular aircraft when it was in service with CAIL, what a sad ending. 737-200's are sturdy birdies, I have a few thousand hours flying them in and around Canada and the Pacific Northwest.
 
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zeke
Posts: 16329
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:59 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Ruh-roh.

OK, so what maintenance issue would cause both engines to flame out that has nothing to do with fuel contamination?


The media reports indicate "maintenance inspections" which could be as simple as a boroscope inspections.
 
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REDHL
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:19 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:38 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Transair has been grounded by FAA due to month long investigation that found Rhodes Aviation has serious maintenance deficiencies.

https://twitter.com/petemuntean/status/ ... 96740?s=19


I found this July 6 article from KHON2, which states that Transair's safety and maintenance issues have apparently been going on for almost 3 decades.

https://www.khon2.com/always-investigat ... hed-plane/
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:32 am

Ok….how bizarre to be under investigation and then have this accident!?!? But then still take another 10 days to shut them down?? There has got to be so much that we don’t know
 
Heinkel
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:17 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
I am not a pilot or pretend to understand everything, but when you lose one engine and the other isn’t performing well, why didn’t they turn back for the airport immediately….. looks like they went out away for a bit. I know we don’t have all the inside information but I would want my keister on land asap……just wondering

The good thing is, that the crew survived and can tell the story.

Is there any news about the recovery of the flight recorders?
 
MrBretz
Posts: 603
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:28 pm

Have the pilots given an interview yet? Do we know if they are OK? What was the extent of their injuries?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8089
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:35 pm

MrBretz wrote:
Have the pilots given an interview yet? Do we know if they are OK? What was the extent of their injuries?


The NTSB will not release details except as part of preliminary and final report. The media did report, shown in this thread, that they were released from the hospital.
 
btfarrwm
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 5:50 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:31 pm

Heinkel wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
I am not a pilot or pretend to understand everything, but when you lose one engine and the other isn’t performing well, why didn’t they turn back for the airport immediately….. looks like they went out away for a bit. I know we don’t have all the inside information but I would want my keister on land asap……just wondering

The good thing is, that the crew survived and can tell the story.

Is there any news about the recovery of the flight recorders?


I think they are going to try and recover the fuselage pieces intact from the sea floor, so I assume the recorders will come up when the rest of the plane does.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10710
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:42 pm

The FAA action seems consistent with the rumours that this operator was flying 737s with ragged-out JT8Ds that weren't, for lack of a more-precise term, in the highest state of repair and so when they lost thrust in the one engine, the other couldn't be set at a high-enough thrust level without overheating, leading directly to this accident. That's consistent with the radio transmissions.

If you're a carrier operating at the edge of the envelope safety-wise and you end up planting a transport-category aircraft into the ocean, it's a fair bet that the FAA is going to take aggressive action.
 
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usxguy
Posts: 1955
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:33 pm

regarding the ATC staffing in the tower, I believe they have 2 on duty during the "off peak" hours. It could have just been bad timing that the 2nd controller was on a quick break (smoke/bathroom) or dinner. But its not unheard of for solo tower ops in small incriments at a busy airfield like PHNL. Especially since its a joint civilian/military airport.
 
hpff
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:20 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:47 pm

usxguy wrote:
regarding the ATC staffing in the tower, I believe they have 2 on duty during the "off peak" hours. It could have just been bad timing that the 2nd controller was on a quick break (smoke/bathroom) or dinner. But its not unheard of for solo tower ops in small incriments at a busy airfield like PHNL. Especially since its a joint civilian/military airport.


There's also only about 7-8 ops an hour that time of night. Not a busy ramp.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8089
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:49 am

usxguy wrote:
regarding the ATC staffing in the tower, I believe they have 2 on duty during the "off peak" hours. It could have just been bad timing that the 2nd controller was on a quick break (smoke/bathroom) or dinner. But its not unheard of for solo tower ops in small incriments at a busy airfield like PHNL. Especially since its a joint civilian/military airport.


No sure what joint use has to do with it.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 14672
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:46 pm

Not having enough trust to climb at MTOW on one engine is one thing, but not enough trust to maintain altitude with a plane that should be below MTOW is another, no ?
 
KingOrGod
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:19 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:42 pm

harleydriver wrote:
I'm curious how you can have a controller alone with no backup. I'm just throwing this out there, what if she maybe had some local Ahi that wasn't as fresh as it should have been and an expedited run to the restroom was required, is there not someone else there to take over her responsibilities if needed?


We work nights alone at some stations - you simply have to pucker up then. I used to routinely work a tower, approach and the whole FIR from the cab at night, and I was literally the only person in the building - even the technician was on call out.

All about the money.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4689
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:44 pm

KingOrGod wrote:
harleydriver wrote:
I'm curious how you can have a controller alone with no backup. I'm just throwing this out there, what if she maybe had some local Ahi that wasn't as fresh as it should have been and an expedited run to the restroom was required, is there not someone else there to take over her responsibilities if needed?


We work nights alone at some stations - you simply have to pucker up then. I used to routinely work a tower, approach and the whole FIR from the cab at night, and I was literally the only person in the building - even the technician was on call out.

All about the money.


Jesus. I hope they at least let you bring in a Home Depot bucket just in case.
 
KingOrGod
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:19 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:51 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
KingOrGod wrote:
harleydriver wrote:
I'm curious how you can have a controller alone with no backup. I'm just throwing this out there, what if she maybe had some local Ahi that wasn't as fresh as it should have been and an expedited run to the restroom was required, is there not someone else there to take over her responsibilities if needed?


We work nights alone at some stations - you simply have to pucker up then. I used to routinely work a tower, approach and the whole FIR from the cab at night, and I was literally the only person in the building - even the technician was on call out.

All about the money.


Jesus. I hope they at least let you bring in a Home Depot bucket just in case.


The bog wasn't too far to go, but if you have traffic on frequency then you have to just clamp it closed. We are used to it. Doesn't make it right. Or safe.
 
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ssteve
Posts: 1510
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:32 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:54 pm

zmatt1 wrote:
The Asiana 777 crash at SFO slammed into the sea wall. Did a mid air flip and came to rest intact except for a separation of the tail section.


330 rotation, not a flip. Also it sounds like every part of the plane that hit the seawall, the MLG and tail-- broke off. (MLG as designed.) Hard to compare that to this, as this ditching likely didn't involve the MLG being down.
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