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AndoAv8R
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:29 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:53 pm

Maybe im blind but it looks like it only broke into 2 sections, with the break right forward of the wing? If so thats still not bad given how rough the waters can be where it hit. And I dont see the cockpit window/cabin doors open, so if they had to escape through where it broke in half someone upstairs must've been looking out for them. Cant wait to hear them talk about it
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 727
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:07 pm

Transair has been grounded by FAA due to month long investigation that found Rhodes Aviation has serious maintenance deficiencies.

https://twitter.com/petemuntean/status/ ... 96740?s=19
 
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bikerthai
Posts: 4333
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:45 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:56 pm

Heinkel wrote:
That was the reason for my recommendation, not to sit in front of the wings on a B737.


The reasoning is sound. You are trading off an improved crash landing survival rate to a very unlikely event vs. The ability to get off the plane sooner than those in the back.

I have never traveled first/business class on A 737/A320, but given a choice I will select the seats further back.

One of the passenger in first class who perished in the Turkish crash was a colleague.

For those interested, note that the 757 fuselage, pictured above, also show a break after of the main wheel well. So the "stout" section of an aircraft do extend aft of the wing box to the wheel well. This is because the wheel well has a keel beam that provide vertical stiffness/strength not typically found in other parts of an aircraft.

bt
 
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zeke
Posts: 16459
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:23 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Transair has been grounded by FAA due to month long investigation that found Rhodes Aviation has serious maintenance deficiencies.

https://twitter.com/petemuntean/status/ ... 96740?s=19


Interesting development that the FAA was looking at suspending their maintenance authority 2 weeks prior to the crash.
 
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DocLightning
Posts: 22270
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:34 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Transair has been grounded by FAA due to month long investigation that found Rhodes Aviation has serious maintenance deficiencies.

https://twitter.com/petemuntean/status/ ... 96740?s=19


Ruh-roh.

OK, so what maintenance issue would cause both engines to flame out that has nothing to do with fuel contamination?
 
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VDemerest
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:21 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:42 pm

I flew this particular aircraft when it was in service with CAIL, what a sad ending. 737-200's are sturdy birdies, I have a few thousand hours flying them in and around Canada and the Pacific Northwest.
 
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zeke
Posts: 16459
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:59 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Ruh-roh.

OK, so what maintenance issue would cause both engines to flame out that has nothing to do with fuel contamination?


The media reports indicate "maintenance inspections" which could be as simple as a boroscope inspections.
 
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REDHL
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:19 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:38 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Transair has been grounded by FAA due to month long investigation that found Rhodes Aviation has serious maintenance deficiencies.

https://twitter.com/petemuntean/status/ ... 96740?s=19


I found this July 6 article from KHON2, which states that Transair's safety and maintenance issues have apparently been going on for almost 3 decades.

https://www.khon2.com/always-investigat ... hed-plane/
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 403
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:32 am

Ok….how bizarre to be under investigation and then have this accident!?!? But then still take another 10 days to shut them down?? There has got to be so much that we don’t know
 
Heinkel
Posts: 324
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:17 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
I am not a pilot or pretend to understand everything, but when you lose one engine and the other isn’t performing well, why didn’t they turn back for the airport immediately….. looks like they went out away for a bit. I know we don’t have all the inside information but I would want my keister on land asap……just wondering

The good thing is, that the crew survived and can tell the story.

Is there any news about the recovery of the flight recorders?
 
MrBretz
Posts: 604
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:28 pm

Have the pilots given an interview yet? Do we know if they are OK? What was the extent of their injuries?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8595
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:35 pm

MrBretz wrote:
Have the pilots given an interview yet? Do we know if they are OK? What was the extent of their injuries?


The NTSB will not release details except as part of preliminary and final report. The media did report, shown in this thread, that they were released from the hospital.
 
btfarrwm
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 5:50 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:31 pm

Heinkel wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
I am not a pilot or pretend to understand everything, but when you lose one engine and the other isn’t performing well, why didn’t they turn back for the airport immediately….. looks like they went out away for a bit. I know we don’t have all the inside information but I would want my keister on land asap……just wondering

The good thing is, that the crew survived and can tell the story.

Is there any news about the recovery of the flight recorders?


I think they are going to try and recover the fuselage pieces intact from the sea floor, so I assume the recorders will come up when the rest of the plane does.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10984
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:42 pm

The FAA action seems consistent with the rumours that this operator was flying 737s with ragged-out JT8Ds that weren't, for lack of a more-precise term, in the highest state of repair and so when they lost thrust in the one engine, the other couldn't be set at a high-enough thrust level without overheating, leading directly to this accident. That's consistent with the radio transmissions.

If you're a carrier operating at the edge of the envelope safety-wise and you end up planting a transport-category aircraft into the ocean, it's a fair bet that the FAA is going to take aggressive action.
 
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usxguy
Posts: 1974
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:33 pm

regarding the ATC staffing in the tower, I believe they have 2 on duty during the "off peak" hours. It could have just been bad timing that the 2nd controller was on a quick break (smoke/bathroom) or dinner. But its not unheard of for solo tower ops in small incriments at a busy airfield like PHNL. Especially since its a joint civilian/military airport.
 
hpff
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:20 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:47 pm

usxguy wrote:
regarding the ATC staffing in the tower, I believe they have 2 on duty during the "off peak" hours. It could have just been bad timing that the 2nd controller was on a quick break (smoke/bathroom) or dinner. But its not unheard of for solo tower ops in small incriments at a busy airfield like PHNL. Especially since its a joint civilian/military airport.


There's also only about 7-8 ops an hour that time of night. Not a busy ramp.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8595
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:49 am

usxguy wrote:
regarding the ATC staffing in the tower, I believe they have 2 on duty during the "off peak" hours. It could have just been bad timing that the 2nd controller was on a quick break (smoke/bathroom) or dinner. But its not unheard of for solo tower ops in small incriments at a busy airfield like PHNL. Especially since its a joint civilian/military airport.


No sure what joint use has to do with it.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 14861
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:46 pm

Not having enough trust to climb at MTOW on one engine is one thing, but not enough trust to maintain altitude with a plane that should be below MTOW is another, no ?
 
KingOrGod
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:19 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:42 pm

harleydriver wrote:
I'm curious how you can have a controller alone with no backup. I'm just throwing this out there, what if she maybe had some local Ahi that wasn't as fresh as it should have been and an expedited run to the restroom was required, is there not someone else there to take over her responsibilities if needed?


We work nights alone at some stations - you simply have to pucker up then. I used to routinely work a tower, approach and the whole FIR from the cab at night, and I was literally the only person in the building - even the technician was on call out.

All about the money.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4812
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:44 pm

KingOrGod wrote:
harleydriver wrote:
I'm curious how you can have a controller alone with no backup. I'm just throwing this out there, what if she maybe had some local Ahi that wasn't as fresh as it should have been and an expedited run to the restroom was required, is there not someone else there to take over her responsibilities if needed?


We work nights alone at some stations - you simply have to pucker up then. I used to routinely work a tower, approach and the whole FIR from the cab at night, and I was literally the only person in the building - even the technician was on call out.

All about the money.


Jesus. I hope they at least let you bring in a Home Depot bucket just in case.
 
KingOrGod
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:19 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:51 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
KingOrGod wrote:
harleydriver wrote:
I'm curious how you can have a controller alone with no backup. I'm just throwing this out there, what if she maybe had some local Ahi that wasn't as fresh as it should have been and an expedited run to the restroom was required, is there not someone else there to take over her responsibilities if needed?


We work nights alone at some stations - you simply have to pucker up then. I used to routinely work a tower, approach and the whole FIR from the cab at night, and I was literally the only person in the building - even the technician was on call out.

All about the money.


Jesus. I hope they at least let you bring in a Home Depot bucket just in case.


The bog wasn't too far to go, but if you have traffic on frequency then you have to just clamp it closed. We are used to it. Doesn't make it right. Or safe.
 
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ssteve
Posts: 1517
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:32 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:54 pm

zmatt1 wrote:
The Asiana 777 crash at SFO slammed into the sea wall. Did a mid air flip and came to rest intact except for a separation of the tail section.


330 rotation, not a flip. Also it sounds like every part of the plane that hit the seawall, the MLG and tail-- broke off. (MLG as designed.) Hard to compare that to this, as this ditching likely didn't involve the MLG being down.
 
RogerMurdock
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:01 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:37 pm

 
 
Spetsnaz55
Posts: 310
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:38 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:13 pm

Amazing pictures
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4812
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:15 pm

Incredible. Miracle there were no fatalities.
 
eightcone
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat May 09, 2020 11:18 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:35 pm

I'm amazed at the amount of carnage on the underside of the front fuse, and yet it stayed in two big pieces. Like everything from the floor down was sliced off. Starting from the lower edge of the radome and running "cleanly" backyards. You can see where the lower circular edge of the radome mount was bent back under the floor in the B roll (7:45). The water must have started to rip the aircraft there and then took the front gear off and backwards. Taking with it everything below the floor, until it reached the wingbox, and then the forces went up over the wing and broke the barrel? Wasn't there a report that it hit as swell as it was ditching? Looking like the nose "dug in", or if the attitude was a flare, there was still a lot of speed when the nose hit water resistance?

Incredible both crew got out of that tangle of metal and wire. Interesting to see what the NTSB comes up with.
 
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Boeing757100
Posts: 776
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 10:09 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:01 pm

How beaten up were the black boxes? Any pics of those or not?
 
N626AA
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:02 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:15 pm

Pics remind me of CI#611 pics during its salvage. Glad this had no pax involved and the crew survived.
 
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gunsontheroof
Posts: 3740
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

Re: 737 Cargo in water at HNL

Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:58 pm

ATCJesus wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
CNBC says crew members have been rescued, waiting to hear more but that is great news.
https://twitter.com/cnbcnow/status/1410 ... 69441?s=21


Of course CNBC was trying to imply it was possibly a MAX and connecting it to Boeing share price….


The sentence "the aircraft was not a 737 MAX" is literally in the article. Calm down.

Glad everyone is OK, great work by the crew
 
AndoAv8R
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:29 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:02 pm

The tail section looks pretty well in tact I'd assume the black boxes are likely in good shape unless the water tight seal got broken
 
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litz
Posts: 2385
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:15 pm

eightcone wrote:
I'm amazed at the amount of carnage on the underside of the front fuse, and yet it stayed in two big pieces. Like everything from the floor down was sliced off. Starting from the lower edge of the radome and running "cleanly" backyards. You can see where the lower circular edge of the radome mount was bent back under the floor in the B roll (7:45). The water must have started to rip the aircraft there and then took the front gear off and backwards. Taking with it everything below the floor, until it reached the wingbox, and then the forces went up over the wing and broke the barrel? Wasn't there a report that it hit as swell as it was ditching? Looking like the nose "dug in", or if the attitude was a flare, there was still a lot of speed when the nose hit water resistance?

Incredible both crew got out of that tangle of metal and wire. Interesting to see what the NTSB comes up with.


Not only got out, but got out through the main cabin door, if I remember correctly. Absolutely amazing.
 
AndoAv8R
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:29 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:32 pm

It looks like (from watching the video) the first officers cockpit window is open, I am guessing the first officer got out through there and the captain through the main door?

Also appears that one of the engines was rotating somewhat (when they show thew backside of the engine) on impact, dont know if windmilling could cause that kind of bend?

Flaps look like at flaps 5 setting?

Still amazed how well that thing held together.

Also a huge thanks to the NTSB for creating and posting that video!

I dont know if they are still operating with covid, but there used to be a submarine expedition off Wakikiki and the route had some intentionally sank planes on the bottom (I believe YS-11's), only took you down approx 100ft but still deep enough to be a little bit nervous.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:33 pm

One thing I noticed, compared to other water crashes like Swissair 111, Silkair 185, and Egyptair 990, this plane seemed relatively intact. Probably because it didn't enter the water at high speeds and obliterate into pieces. But still, how come the wreckage removal took basically from the beginning of July to today. As I'm not experienced in this type of thing, is this amount of time normal to take for such an operation? AFAIK, I thought that they managed to get 75% of the Silkair plane out of the Musi river within a month of the dredging, and that was a high speed crash that much wreckage ended up deep within the mud. Transair 810 now seems much more straightforward, but how come it took longer?
 
AndoAv8R
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:29 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:40 pm

I would guess it took so long due to the logistics of getting the proper watercraft coordinated (Im not sure how far out the specialized ROV equipped watercraft get booked in advance/getting a barge that could handle that kind of lifting) as well as well as a gameplan to retrieve the wreckage in as few pieces as possible. It was also hampered by the fact at that depth its impossible to get divers down safely so the ROV had to handle everything on the seabed. Watching the NTSB briefing from early October before it began they mentioned the back end could end up weighing up to 90,000lbs. Then theres also the side of who was going to pay for it, Im guessing it easily went up into the hundreds of thousands costwise
 
BenTheGreat97
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:18 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:03 am

Boeing757100 wrote:
One thing I noticed, compared to other water crashes like Swissair 111, Silkair 185, and Egyptair 990, this plane seemed relatively intact. Probably because it didn't enter the water at high speeds and obliterate into pieces. But still, how come the wreckage removal took basically from the beginning of July to today. As I'm not experienced in this type of thing, is this amount of time normal to take for such an operation? AFAIK, I thought that they managed to get 75% of the Silkair plane out of the Musi river within a month of the dredging, and that was a high speed crash that much wreckage ended up deep within the mud. Transair 810 now seems much more straightforward, but how come it took longer?


Also, no one died in this incident. That would make it a little less time-sensitive I'd think.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4812
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:24 am

BenTheGreat97 wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
One thing I noticed, compared to other water crashes like Swissair 111, Silkair 185, and Egyptair 990, this plane seemed relatively intact. Probably because it didn't enter the water at high speeds and obliterate into pieces. But still, how come the wreckage removal took basically from the beginning of July to today. As I'm not experienced in this type of thing, is this amount of time normal to take for such an operation? AFAIK, I thought that they managed to get 75% of the Silkair plane out of the Musi river within a month of the dredging, and that was a high speed crash that much wreckage ended up deep within the mud. Transair 810 now seems much more straightforward, but how come it took longer?




Also, no one died in this incident. That would make it a little less time-sensitive I'd think.


As well as not a ton of these flying around. If it were a newer model with extensive passenger service there would be some urgency to ensure a root cause can be identified sooner in case it was a manufacturing or operating issue.

Agreed pretty low priority event to recover, but certainly worthy of further investigation.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26932
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:59 am

Boeing757100 wrote:
One thing I noticed, compared to other water crashes like Swissair 111, Silkair 185, and Egyptair 990, this plane seemed relatively intact. Probably because it didn't enter the water at high speeds and obliterate into pieces. But still, how come the wreckage removal took basically from the beginning of July to today. As I'm not experienced in this type of thing, is this amount of time normal to take for such an operation? AFAIK, I thought that they managed to get 75% of the Silkair plane out of the Musi river within a month of the dredging, and that was a high speed crash that much wreckage ended up deep within the mud. Transair 810 now seems much more straightforward, but how come it took longer?


The difference here is this was a controlled ditching. More similarities to Sully than those incidents. If you ditch an airplane in a controlled, energy managed manner, there is a much better chance of survival.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 727
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:32 am

RogerMurdock wrote:

Thank you for sharing these photo. I wonder if they recover the underbelly of the aircraft since it was all but scrapped off? Perhaps the airframe can be used for movie prop after investigation is concluded. Maybe sink her back into water as artificial reef.

Kudos to the team doing the recovery effort.
 
Western727
Posts: 2097
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:01 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
One thing I noticed, compared to other water crashes like Swissair 111, Silkair 185, and Egyptair 990, this plane seemed relatively intact. Probably because it didn't enter the water at high speeds and obliterate into pieces. But still, how come the wreckage removal took basically from the beginning of July to today. As I'm not experienced in this type of thing, is this amount of time normal to take for such an operation? AFAIK, I thought that they managed to get 75% of the Silkair plane out of the Musi river within a month of the dredging, and that was a high speed crash that much wreckage ended up deep within the mud. Transair 810 now seems much more straightforward, but how come it took longer?


I imagine the water currents might be a factor, though that's only speculation.
 
2175301
Posts: 2245
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Wed Nov 03, 2021 2:44 pm

Western727 wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
One thing I noticed......I thought that they managed to get 75% of the Silkair plane out of the Musi river within a month of the dredging, and that was a high speed crash that much wreckage ended up deep within the mud. Transair 810 now seems much more straightforward, but how come it took longer?


I imagine the water currents might be a factor, though that's only speculation.


The equipment needed for deep water recovery of large heavy items is not just sitting around in all locations in the world; and there is a limited amount of it.

It literally may have taken months just to get the right equipment onsite from as far as half way around the world (although usually its within 1/3 of the way around the world) - if it was immediately available (this equipment is usually doing something other than sitting around).

My guess is that this recovery is in the 1/2 - 1 $ Million range.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4637
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Updated: 737 Freighter ditches in water off HNL

Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:10 pm

RogerMurdock wrote:


Wow!! Absolutely incredible. Those pilots are so lucky. A successful ditching at sea at night. Surprised the damage isn't worse.
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