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Armadillo1
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AN-26 crashed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:05 am

RA-26085 (?)

pax list (rus): https://life.ru/p/1407938

scheduled flight from Elizovo airport
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizovo_Airport
to Palana regional airport
https://www.google.com/maps/place/59%C2 ... 8806?hl=ru

afraid that a mountain
 
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AirlineCritic
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:05 am

 
SRQLOT
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:15 am

Depending on the outcome might this accident be number 3 for the week?
 
eielef
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:54 am

Since early this morning there have been news from a disappeared flight, on route between Petropavlovsk Kamchatsky (Yelizovo Intl Airport, PKC/UHPP) to Palana (ПАН/UHPN). The plane was an An26-100, registered RA-26085, built in May 1982. On the plane were 6 crew members and 22 passengers, including 2 children.
The route was operated by the state owned Kamchatsky Air Enterprise.

Link follows (English: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/07/ ... ast-a74433) / Russian: https://ria.ru/20210706/samolet-1740030539.html

The airport of Palana is a very difficult one, and the same airline had another accident there, same route, on an An28 in 2012.
Also, recovery is very difficult as there are no roads in that area. Helicopters and ships are searching for the plane at the moment.

Cheers,
Eielef @MOW
 
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cougar15
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:07 am

The Herald is attempting to stay on top of it as always.
http://avherald.com/h?article=4e9e6ae8&opt=0
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:13 am

Prayers to all, and their families
 
Armadillo1
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:55 am

https://lenta.ru/news/2021/07/06/oblomki/
wreckage parts found from helicopter. sad
 
Armadillo1
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:00 am

wheather:
at time of crash:
300meters part clouds, 700m full
hills was in clouds/fog

now:200m clouds
 
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zeke
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:12 am

Armadillo1 wrote:
wheather:
at time of crash:
300meters part clouds, 700m full
hills was in clouds/fog

now:200m clouds


Totally unsuitable for a NDB approach.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:14 pm

 
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scbriml
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:52 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:


Sadly, that’s not in the least bit surprising given the crash site image in the AVHerald link above.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:06 pm

scbriml wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:


Sadly, that’s not in the least bit surprising given the crash site image in the AVHerald link above.


Agreed. It's really just a burn scar. An all-too-common outcome of CFIT events.

The discussion on AvHerald goes into some of the possible reasons. Seemingly knowledgeable people saying the impact site was way off any approach path.
 
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zeke
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:36 pm

DocLightning wrote:

The discussion on AvHerald goes into some of the possible reasons. Seemingly knowledgeable people saying the impact site was way off any approach path.


This is the avherald position with the outbound/inbound NDB legs on the same image. I don’t know the source for the avherald position, it is not that far from the outbound leg of the NDB approach.

Image
 
rampbro
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:45 pm

I'm sure it will come up, so here is the avherald instance of the 2012 CFIT crash at Palana: https://avherald.com/h?article=455c0bcf/0000&opt=0
 
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zeke
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:11 pm

Just looked at the 29 RNP approach, the missed approach would take the flight path near where avherald is reporting the crash location.

Image
 
32andBelow
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:13 pm

zeke wrote:
Armadillo1 wrote:
wheather:
at time of crash:
300meters part clouds, 700m full
hills was in clouds/fog

now:200m clouds


Totally unsuitable for a NDB approach.

Maybe unlikely to land but no matter the weather the approach shouldn’t put you into a mountain. So something clearly happened here. Maybe he got it in sight for a second and then lost it.
 
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Aesma
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:37 pm

Wrong altimeter setting ?
 
LTEN11
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:39 pm

32andBelow wrote:
zeke wrote:
Armadillo1 wrote:
wheather:
at time of crash:
300meters part clouds, 700m full
hills was in clouds/fog

now:200m clouds


Totally unsuitable for a NDB approach.

Maybe unlikely to land but no matter the weather the approach shouldn’t put you into a mountain. So something clearly happened here. Maybe he got it in sight for a second and then lost it.


It's not a mountain, it's a coastal cliff. Most of the wreckage was located at the base of the cliff and in the sea.
 
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zeke
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Re: AN-26 crashed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:01 pm

A couple of news stories showing video taken of the impact area

Video taken from a search helicopter

https://youtu.be/tnJtQ8l-D1I

This news report and animation in this news report indicates the crash site to be further south along the coast than what avherald has reported, on the extended centreline of the runway

https://youtu.be/Wr7i2E0-Nns

Image
Image
 
32andBelow
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:07 pm

LTEN11 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
zeke wrote:

Totally unsuitable for a NDB approach.

Maybe unlikely to land but no matter the weather the approach shouldn’t put you into a mountain. So something clearly happened here. Maybe he got it in sight for a second and then lost it.


It's not a mountain, it's a coastal cliff. Most of the wreckage was located at the base of the cliff and in the sea.

However you want to describe it the altitudes on the approach would keep you over terrain
 
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zeke
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:25 pm

32andBelow wrote:
However you want to describe it the altitudes on the approach would keep you over terrain


Not on the extended centreline, the NDB approach is a circling approach with the circling commencing over water, and the RNP for 11 is also offset by 20 degrees.
 
32andBelow
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:08 pm

zeke wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
However you want to describe it the altitudes on the approach would keep you over terrain


Not on the extended centreline, the NDB approach is a circling approach with the circling commencing over water, and the RNP for 11 is also offset by 20 degrees.

But your have to break out and get the airport in site to continue from the MAP
 
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zeke
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:21 am

32andBelow wrote:
But your have to break out and get the airport in site to continue from the MAP


The missed approach point for the NDB-A is the NDB which is located just north of the airport past the RW11 threshold, the MAPT for the RNP11 is a waypoint just north of the RW11 threshold.
 
32andBelow
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:57 am

zeke wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
But your have to break out and get the airport in site to continue from the MAP


The missed approach point for the NDB-A is the NDB which is located just north of the airport past the RW11 threshold, the MAPT for the RNP11 is a waypoint just north of the RW11 threshold.

Idk what you are trying to say but the approach isn’t going to have you descend into terrain before you get the airport environment in sight
 
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zeke
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Re: AN-26 missed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:11 am

32andBelow wrote:
Idk what you are trying to say but the approach isn’t going to have you descend into terrain before you get the airport environment in sight


You stated “But your have to break out and get the airport in site to continue from the MAP”, the MAP is at the airport, not prior to the airport.

There is terrain on the extended centreline, some form of circling is required.

Have a look at this approach flown to the same airport, and you can see how the pilots have to manoeuvre to avoid the terrain.

https://youtu.be/iLncTjeQpdQ
 
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Aesma
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Re: AN-26 crashed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:07 pm

Wow crazy video. They seem below the glidescope in the first landing. I would definitely not attempt that landing hugging the terrain to the left without good visibility.
 
schernov
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Re: AN-26 crashed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:06 am

According report in gazeta.ru the crew ignored tower instructions to use a different approach which had more favorable weather conditions twice. And chose the approach which had fog and low clouds.
 
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zeke
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Re: AN-26 crashed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:30 am

schernov wrote:
According report in gazeta.ru the crew ignored tower instructions to use a different approach which had more favorable weather conditions twice. And chose the approach which had fog and low clouds.


Does the report indicate what approach tower suggested ?
 
ZKCIF
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Re: AN-26 crashed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:05 am

I have read the four articles on the disaster by gazeta.ru (which seems to me to be a sensationalist propaganda media outlet), and the most relevant phrases were in the article of July 6; I quote from https://www.gazeta.ru/social/2021/07/06/13705148.shtml:
По предварительным данным, пилот попытался посадить лайнер с помощью личного, не установленного производителем судна навигатора, а также перед посадкой сократить траекторию через сопку «Пятибратка», однако во время маневра самолет влетел в скалу. Ситуацию осложнили метеоусловия: в момент посадки в регионе наблюдался туман, горы были закрыты плотными облаками, пишет Telegram-канал «112».
[the translation is mine, Russian is my second language]: [...] the pilot was trying to land the plane with his own/personal, not approved by the manufacturer, navigator. Also, before the landing, he was trying to shorten the trajectory [thus going above] Hill Pyatibratka; however, during the maneuver, the plane flew into the hill. The situation was made complicated by the weather as, at the time of landing, the area was covered by fog, and the hills were covered with dense clouds, as written by telegram channel 112.


В авиакомпании, в свою очередь, заявили РИА «Новости», что возможной причиной крушения воздушного судна мог стать сильный боковой ветер. По словам замдиректора компании «Камчатское авиационное предприятие» Сергея Горба, самолет практически врезался в береговую скалу, которая не была расположена на траектории его посадки. Он отметил, что часть носа самолета находится в море, а оставшиеся обломки — в прибрежной полосе у подножья.
At the airline, according to RIA News, it has been stated that a possible cause of the crash is heavy lateral wind. In the words of the deputy of the CEO of the airline Mr. Sergey Gonchar, the aircraft essentially slammed into a coastal rock which was not on the trajectory of its landing [path] [...]

I would not take some things here too seriously. only vague statements
 
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zeke
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Re: AN-26 crashed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:26 pm

ZKCIF wrote:
I have read the four articles on the disaster by gazeta.ru (which seems to me to be a sensationalist propaganda media outlet), and the most relevant phrases were in the article of July 6; I quote from https://www.gazeta.ru/social/2021/07/06/13705148.shtml:
По предварительным данным, пилот попытался посадить лайнер с помощью личного, не установленного производителем судна навигатора, а также перед посадкой сократить траекторию через сопку «Пятибратка», однако во время маневра самолет влетел в скалу. Ситуацию осложнили метеоусловия: в момент посадки в регионе наблюдался туман, горы были закрыты плотными облаками, пишет Telegram-канал «112».
[the translation is mine, Russian is my second language]: [...] the pilot was trying to land the plane with his own/personal, not approved by the manufacturer, navigator. Also, before the landing, he was trying to shorten the trajectory [thus going above] Hill Pyatibratka; however, during the maneuver, the plane flew into the hill. The situation was made complicated by the weather as, at the time of landing, the area was covered by fog, and the hills were covered with dense clouds, as written by telegram channel 112.


В авиакомпании, в свою очередь, заявили РИА «Новости», что возможной причиной крушения воздушного судна мог стать сильный боковой ветер. По словам замдиректора компании «Камчатское авиационное предприятие» Сергея Горба, самолет практически врезался в береговую скалу, которая не была расположена на траектории его посадки. Он отметил, что часть носа самолета находится в море, а оставшиеся обломки — в прибрежной полосе у подножья.
At the airline, according to RIA News, it has been stated that a possible cause of the crash is heavy lateral wind. In the words of the deputy of the CEO of the airline Mr. Sergey Gonchar, the aircraft essentially slammed into a coastal rock which was not on the trajectory of its landing [path] [...]

I would not take some things here too seriously. only vague statements


Thank you,

I have seen a number of reports that the aircraft was of type AN-26B-100 however looking at this photo it is clear that the bubble window for the navigator position is in place which will make this an AN-26-100.

https://www.jetphotos.com/info/An-26-10702

The difference is the earlier aircraft had a 4 crew requirement including a navigator, I highly doubt this aircraft was equipped with a GNSS system capable of RNP approaches. Additionally the NOTAM for the airport stated RNP approach not to be used.

The only IFR approach then would be the NDB-A, however that procedure starts over the airport, the arrival tracks
on Russian TV indicate the aircraft flew north along the coast then made a right turn to the runway on the extended centreline.

I suspect the crew had a personal GNSS device in the cockpit and used that to conduct an unauthorised home made approach, with the hills obscured by cloud they had no idea they were there.
 
ZKCIF
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Re: AN-26 crashed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:38 pm

There were 5 crew in the cockpit, including Mr. I. Neverov (quite a grim surname under the circumstances meaning 'not trusting', 'not believing' [in God, or otherwise]) who is referred to as "бортоператор" which could be translated as "the operator on board". On the forum of avia.ru, someone referred to him as a navigator, but that is just a claim in a chat. At least three different Russian sources write that they were using their own navigation system
 
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zeke
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Re: AN-26 crashed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:28 am

ZKCIF wrote:
There were 5 crew in the cockpit, including Mr. I. Neverov (quite a grim surname under the circumstances meaning 'not trusting', 'not believing' [in God, or otherwise]) who is referred to as "бортоператор" which could be translated as "the operator on board". On the forum of avia.ru, someone referred to him as a navigator, but that is just a claim in a chat. At least three different Russian sources write that they were using their own navigation system


The 5 crew would be captain, co-pilot, engineer, navigator, and cabin crew.

The like to photo above there is a bubble windows on the left forward fuselage, that is where the navigator station is on the AN-26-100, on the AN-26B-100 this station is removed and it has a smaller flat window.

Photo of aircraft involved in accident https://www.jetphotos.com/info/An-26-10702



Bubble window on left fuselage behind cockpit for navigator station, AN-26-100, captain, co-pilot, engineer, navigator



Non bubble window, AN-26B-100 captain, co-pilot, engineer
 
tu204
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Re: AN-26 crashed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:39 am

https://youtu.be/wnbnu0iZ4Mg

Here's the final part of the ATC coms between Palana and the Antonov. In Russian of course.
 
ZKCIF
Posts: 439
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Re: AN-26 crashed 06 July 2021 Kamchatka, Russia

Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:00 pm

At least two reliable news sources have announced that both flight recorders have been retrieved.
If anyone wants the translation of the ATC comms, please write a personal message to me, and i'll do the translation and post it here

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