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alaskan9974
Topic Author
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:06 pm

Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:31 am

Saw a few stories yesterday about a passenger who took control and attempted to crash a scheduled C208 operated by a part 135 carrier. He overpowered the pilot briefly before he was subdued. Luckily no one injured and no word on damage.
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sldispatcher
Posts: 596
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:43 am

I'm tired of crazy people.
Enforce the laws to the fullest extent.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:14 am

What a total dipwad. After his time in the can, DOT should enforce a lifetime flying ban.
 
SRQLOT
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Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:12 pm

Surprised this thread is not gaining anymore response.

One reason I’m weary of one pilot (future large aircraft) operations. Between the pilot and someone getting in the cockpit while the pilot gets up to use the bathroom there is no back up. Plus all the other scenarios.

This being a few seater airplane I get it not economically to have 2 pilots. But at least you have a passenger in the right seat or few near by to maybe assist like in this case.
 
argentinevol98
Posts: 184
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:40 pm

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:25 pm

I get the reason there is no divider between the cabin and pilot on most Part-135 single pilot ops (planes are very small, nowhere to place one, economic issues, etc.) but it is alarming what could possibly happen when a passenger has such easy access to the controls.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:32 pm

Over at PPW, there’s a post from a former pilot out of AK, this apparently isn’t that infrequent up there. He had it happen to him—drink, mental illness, depression, anger issues, etc.
 
32andBelow
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:51 pm

This happened a couple years ago as well. It would also be comically easy to bring a fire arm on a flight like this.
 
deebee278
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:14 pm

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:24 pm

SRQLOT wrote:

This being a few seater airplane I get it not economically to have 2 pilots. But at least you have a passenger in the right seat or few near by to maybe assist like in this case.


I appreciate your point but on the other hand, it could have been Jaden himself sitting in that right seat...
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:38 pm

deebee278 wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:

This being a few seater airplane I get it not economically to have 2 pilots. But at least you have a passenger in the right seat or few near by to maybe assist like in this case.


I appreciate your point but on the other hand, it could have been Jaden himself sitting in that right seat...


And that’s true but in that aircraft, you still have the other passengers that can break his neck. Hopefully. But yeah like with Germanwings. Unfortunately it will happen, I guess it’s a risk either way.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15174
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:54 am

SRQLOT wrote:
Surprised this thread is not gaining anymore response.

One reason I’m weary of one pilot (future large aircraft) operations. Between the pilot and someone getting in the cockpit while the pilot gets up to use the bathroom there is no back up. Plus all the other scenarios.

This being a few seater airplane I get it not economically to have 2 pilots. But at least you have a passenger in the right seat or few near by to maybe assist like in this case.

I think single pilot will only be a thing on long haul flights during the long cruise profile. 2 at take-off, alternating single pilot ops with rest periods, and 2 at landing could reduce a 3 pilot trip to two on some routes, and even a 4 pilot to 3 on others.
 
Noshow
Posts: 2625
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:31 am

It's great that the passengers could stop him in time.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 14642
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:36 am

The bathroom issue will not be one, it will be inside the cockpit (the door will be moved if needed).
 
9Patch
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Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:38 pm

This story appeared in yesterday's Anchorage Daily News and has some additional information about the incident involving the passenger Jaden Lake-Kameroff:

“Lake-Kameroff had asked the pilot to fly the plane earlier during the flight and initially asked to sit in the unoccupied copilot seat. Both requests were denied by the pilot,”


About five minutes after Lake-Kameroff asked to fly the plane, the pilot, who was identified as Joshua Kersch in an affidavit, said he felt the yoke go forward and saw Lake-Kameroff pushing forward on the controls.


The plane was about 5 miles from the Aniak airport and in the process of landing when Lake-Kameroff grabbed the controls, McDaniel said. The plane was roughly 1,000 to 1,500 feet above the ground,


Lake-Kameroff said he had tried to end his life on the plane by grabbing the controls, the affidavit said. He had talked with behavioral health officials previously but said it hadn’t helped, according to the affidavit.


Two years ago, a 16-year-old took control of a flight after it left Napakiak headed for Bethel and caused the plane to dive. The pilot returned to Napakiak and landed safely. The juvenile suspect’s name was never released.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/crime-c ... opers-say/


Lake-Kameroff is now 18. Is he the same person who tried this stunt two years ago? He wants to kill himself and take others with him.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4606
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:19 pm

9Patch wrote:
This story appeared in yesterday's Anchorage Daily News and has some additional information about the incident involving the passenger Jaden Lake-Kameroff:

“Lake-Kameroff had asked the pilot to fly the plane earlier during the flight and initially asked to sit in the unoccupied copilot seat. Both requests were denied by the pilot,”


About five minutes after Lake-Kameroff asked to fly the plane, the pilot, who was identified as Joshua Kersch in an affidavit, said he felt the yoke go forward and saw Lake-Kameroff pushing forward on the controls.


The plane was about 5 miles from the Aniak airport and in the process of landing when Lake-Kameroff grabbed the controls, McDaniel said. The plane was roughly 1,000 to 1,500 feet above the ground,


Lake-Kameroff said he had tried to end his life on the plane by grabbing the controls, the affidavit said. He had talked with behavioral health officials previously but said it hadn’t helped, according to the affidavit.


Two years ago, a 16-year-old took control of a flight after it left Napakiak headed for Bethel and caused the plane to dive. The pilot returned to Napakiak and landed safely. The juvenile suspect’s name was never released.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/crime-c ... opers-say/


Lake-Kameroff is now 18. Is he the same person who tried this stunt two years ago? He wants to kill himself and take others with him.


I would guess there is a high probability it's the same person! WTF? If that turns out to be true, why wasn't this idiot put on a no fly list?

I couldn't imagine being a passenger on that flight!! I would have likely choked him out.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 596
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:07 pm

F9Animal wrote:
9Patch wrote:
This story appeared in yesterday's Anchorage Daily News and has some additional information about the incident involving the passenger Jaden Lake-Kameroff:

“Lake-Kameroff had asked the pilot to fly the plane earlier during the flight and initially asked to sit in the unoccupied copilot seat. Both requests were denied by the pilot,”


About five minutes after Lake-Kameroff asked to fly the plane, the pilot, who was identified as Joshua Kersch in an affidavit, said he felt the yoke go forward and saw Lake-Kameroff pushing forward on the controls.


The plane was about 5 miles from the Aniak airport and in the process of landing when Lake-Kameroff grabbed the controls, McDaniel said. The plane was roughly 1,000 to 1,500 feet above the ground,


Lake-Kameroff said he had tried to end his life on the plane by grabbing the controls, the affidavit said. He had talked with behavioral health officials previously but said it hadn’t helped, according to the affidavit.


Two years ago, a 16-year-old took control of a flight after it left Napakiak headed for Bethel and caused the plane to dive. The pilot returned to Napakiak and landed safely. The juvenile suspect’s name was never released.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/crime-c ... opers-say/


Lake-Kameroff is now 18. Is he the same person who tried this stunt two years ago? He wants to kill himself and take others with him.


I would guess there is a high probability it's the same person! WTF? If that turns out to be true, why wasn't this idiot put on a no fly list?

I couldn't imagine being a passenger on that flight!! I would have likely choked him out.


Because juveniles, no matter how deranged, are treated by kid gloves due to bleeding hearts. My family does not need to be put at risk by persons like this. I hope attempted murder x # of souls on board is the least of the charges leveled against him.
 
Noshow
Posts: 2625
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:30 am

I fully understand your emotion but this sounds like some "mentally ill" person (like that Germanwings pilot) not so much like some "responsible" violent offender.
He should be forbidden from flying and be locked up in a safe place for sure but I am not sure if this is your average intentional violent type of criminal.
Last edited by Noshow on Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
ryanov
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:38 am

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:43 am

sldispatcher wrote:
Because juveniles, no matter how deranged, are treated by kid gloves due to bleeding hearts. My family does not need to be put at risk by persons like this. I hope attempted murder x # of souls on board is the least of the charges leveled against him.


No, not because of bleeding hearts, because they are juveniles. They are treated “by kid gloves“ because they are literally kids.

As for invoking the fullest extent of the law, clearly the law is not the issue here. It’s not normal behavior to try to crash an airplane. Throwing the book at somebody who does that is not gonna solve the problem.

You being “tired” of “crazy people” does not make them go away. I imagine if you’re tired of it, the people who have to live with these problems are even more tired of it.
 
Noshow
Posts: 2625
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:02 am

We might have to improve our scanning of ill people for possible upcoming violent behavior somehow?
Not sure how this can be done. But the same person should not be permitted to try things a second time if this should have been the case here.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2394
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:37 pm

ryanov wrote:
sldispatcher wrote:
Because juveniles, no matter how deranged, are treated by kid gloves due to bleeding hearts. My family does not need to be put at risk by persons like this. I hope attempted murder x # of souls on board is the least of the charges leveled against him.


No, not because of bleeding hearts, because they are juveniles. They are treated “by kid gloves“ because they are literally kids.

As for invoking the fullest extent of the law, clearly the law is not the issue here. It’s not normal behavior to try to crash an airplane. Throwing the book at somebody who does that is not gonna solve the problem.

You being “tired” of “crazy people” does not make them go away. I imagine if you’re tired of it, the people who have to live with these problems are even more tired of it.

clearly the law is not the issue here
: well, that's where I disagree. A 16 year-old is as much aware of his/her actions as a 20, 30, 50, or 70 year-old person; especially when it comes to commit crimes. Yet, they are treating with lighter sentences "cause they're kids"; and by not nipping the problem in the butt at the young age, you make them criminals in the long run instead of saving them.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5641
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:53 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
ryanov wrote:
sldispatcher wrote:
Because juveniles, no matter how deranged, are treated by kid gloves due to bleeding hearts. My family does not need to be put at risk by persons like this. I hope attempted murder x # of souls on board is the least of the charges leveled against him.


No, not because of bleeding hearts, because they are juveniles. They are treated “by kid gloves“ because they are literally kids.

As for invoking the fullest extent of the law, clearly the law is not the issue here. It’s not normal behavior to try to crash an airplane. Throwing the book at somebody who does that is not gonna solve the problem.

You being “tired” of “crazy people” does not make them go away. I imagine if you’re tired of it, the people who have to live with these problems are even more tired of it.

clearly the law is not the issue here
: well, that's where I disagree. A 16 year-old is as much aware of his/her actions as a 20, 30, 50, or 70 year-old person; especially when it comes to commit crimes. Yet, they are treating with lighter sentences "cause they're kids"; and by not nipping the problem in the butt at the young age, you make them criminals in the long run instead of saving them.

You gotta draw the line somewhere. If you make it 16 then you can start saying 14 year olds aren’t that far away
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 596
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:13 pm

Noshow wrote:
I fully understand your emotion but this sounds like some "mentally ill" person (like that Germanwings pilot) not so much like some "responsible" violent offender.
He should be forbidden from flying and be locked up in a safe place for sure but I am not sure if this is your average intentional violent type of criminal.


I knew there would be the chorus of responses. Mental illness is devastating for those that suffer with it. I know. I get it. I deal with it EVERY working day. Very few can be truly rehabbed with anything we have available today and most are "controlled" with medication which is not the best, but mostly the only solution we have now.

From an aviation standpoint, we have reports at least weekly of someone trying to open up doors in flight. Look at the fights in Miami, the flight attendants being victimized by unruly passengers. I'm sure drugs, alcohol and general bad behavior have something to in part with most of them more so than just plain mental illness.

We have lost respect for life and for one another in this country as it moves in a secular progressive ideology. Aviation is just the latest institution to see the effects.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2394
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Passenger attempted to crash C208 in Alaska

Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:51 pm

32andBelow wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
ryanov wrote:

No, not because of bleeding hearts, because they are juveniles. They are treated “by kid gloves“ because they are literally kids.

As for invoking the fullest extent of the law, clearly the law is not the issue here. It’s not normal behavior to try to crash an airplane. Throwing the book at somebody who does that is not gonna solve the problem.

You being “tired” of “crazy people” does not make them go away. I imagine if you’re tired of it, the people who have to live with these problems are even more tired of it.

clearly the law is not the issue here
: well, that's where I disagree. A 16 year-old is as much aware of his/her actions as a 20, 30, 50, or 70 year-old person; especially when it comes to commit crimes. Yet, they are treating with lighter sentences "cause they're kids"; and by not nipping the problem in the butt at the young age, you make them criminals in the long run instead of saving them.

You gotta draw the line somewhere. If you make it 16 then you can start saying 14 year olds aren’t that far away

Agree; or start "derating" sentences. Which still points out to the law being flawed.

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