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KLAXWOLF
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Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:29 am

Lufthansa is considering/sure to bring back the Airbus A-380.
Last edited by SQ22 on Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title was misleading
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: Lufthansa A-380 coming back in Munich

Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:31 am

Is this a question or are you stating a fact? Either way what’s your back up?
 
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SQ22
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Re: Lufthansa A-380 coming back in Munich

Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:43 am

Please provide a link to your source when stating facts,

The article below in German is only stating that they are running the figures to bring back 5 A380 instead of five A346 to MUC in 2022 due to an expected higher premium demand.

Lufthansa rechnet A380-Comeback am MUC durch
 
SpeedbirdDan
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:54 am

I did not hear about the A380 but I heard LH might be bringing back some of its Boeing 747-400s this Autumn 2021.

https://www.airliners.de/lufthansa-plan ... -400/61201
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Sun Jul 11, 2021 2:55 pm

YAY!!!!!

Back in 2017, I booked my trip to Germany on LH with the 747-8. Absolutely no regrets; however, I remember thinking, "yeah, the 747 might be gone soon, and the A380 will be around for a while..."

How quickly the world changed. But at least my next trip can be on one from LAX!

Question: Aside from the usual 'unique size' issues that go along with an A380, how much commonality is there to other Airbus aircraft in the cockpit?
 
Speedy752
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:11 pm

Wouldn’t it potentially be better to pull a Delta and look for used a350? Cost now might be a little more than reactivating the old fleet, but moves them into the future instead of the past. Even though most of us know a 4 engine aircraft isn’t that much less efficient than 2, I think in our climate change focused world it’s a pretty outward sign of inefficiency to your average person
 
Airlines0613
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:19 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
YAY!!!!!

Back in 2017, I booked my trip to Germany on LH with the 747-8. Absolutely no regrets; however, I remember thinking, "yeah, the 747 might be gone soon, and the A380 will be around for a while..."

How quickly the world changed. But at least my next trip can be on one from LAX!

Question: Aside from the usual 'unique size' issues that go along with an A380, how much commonality is there to other Airbus aircraft in the cockpit?

It’s the other way around. The B748 is staying, while the A380 and B744 are still in limbo. Last time o heard, the B744 was being retired, along with half the A380 fleet.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:19 pm

Speedy752 wrote:
Wouldn’t it potentially be better to pull a Delta and look for used a350?

As noted in the other LH fleet thread, viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456007, they are getting an A359 (rumored up to 4 aircraft) from PAL. They also placed an order for five 787 with Boeing that will be delivered later this year, with rumors about an additional order for 5.

There actually aren't that many used 787 and A350 available, at least compared to used A330 or 77W. If LH wants to build up capacity quickly this will have to be with a combination of new and old types.
 
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Polot
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:45 pm

mxaxai wrote:
There actually aren't that many used 787 and A350 available, at least compared to used A330 or 77W. If LH wants to build up capacity quickly this will have to be with a combination of new and old types.

There are quite a few used 787s available thanks to DY killing their long haul ops. Would be same specs as the rumored additional 5 too…
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:15 pm

Speedy752 wrote:
Wouldn’t it potentially be better to pull a Delta and look for used a350?

Wouldn't assume that they haven't.

But the odds of finding suitable (price, specs, etc) units for an aircraft that's barely been in worldwide service for 6yrs, aren't exactly high. That DL (and allegedly LH) have found any at all, is borderline miraculous.


SpeedbirdDan wrote:
I did not hear about the A380 but I heard LH might be bringing back some of its Boeing 747-400s this Autumn 2021.

https://www.airliners.de/lufthansa-plan ... -400/61201

This article cites Simple Flying as its source. :irked:
So there's that.

Though the Aero.de article does mention it as well.
 
cpd
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:40 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
YAY!!!!!

Back in 2017, I booked my trip to Germany on LH with the 747-8. Absolutely no regrets; however, I remember thinking, "yeah, the 747 might be gone soon, and the A380 will be around for a while..."

How quickly the world changed. But at least my next trip can be on one from LAX!

Question: Aside from the usual 'unique size' issues that go along with an A380, how much commonality is there to other Airbus aircraft in the cockpit?


There is a video on YouTube with Jürgen Raps(ret) talking about the A380 flight deck and commonality with other Airbus planes.

I haven’t flown on the LH A380, but have been on many EK A380s. They are just so smooth and quiet. The takeoffs, you think hmm, we don’t seem to be going so fast and then up she goes with this relative silence.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:13 pm

Airlines0613 wrote:
It’s the other way around. The B748 is staying, while the A380 and B744 are still in limbo. Last time o heard, the B744 was being retired, along with half the A380 fleet.

Yes, these are all short term moves.

As per the thread linked in #8, even some 747-400s are said to be getting readied for return to service.

There are A380s that LH is selling back to Airbus, I doubt these will return to the fleet.

In a few years the 779 will be in house and will serve to replace many of the premium-heavy aircraft being mentioned here.
 
777luver
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:19 pm

Revelation wrote:
Airlines0613 wrote:
It’s the other way around. The B748 is staying, while the A380 and B744 are still in limbo. Last time o heard, the B744 was being retired, along with half the A380 fleet.

Yes, these are all short term moves.

As per the thread linked in #8, even some 747-400s are said to be getting readied for return to service.

There are A380s that LH is selling back to Airbus, I doubt these will return to the fleet.

In a few years the 779 will be in house and will serve to replace many of the premium-heavy aircraft being mentioned here.


Very fluid situation. But yes as mentioned some 744s are being reactivated as are some A346s however it could change with the snap of a finger
 
mxaxai
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:25 pm

Revelation wrote:
In a few years the 779 will be in house and will serve to replace many of the premium-heavy aircraft being mentioned here.

The aero.de article that some of these rumors are based on even mentions that the 744 reactivation is due to 779 delays. I think LH would happily take delivery of the 779 right now if Boeing was able to.
 
texl1649
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:00 pm

mxaxai wrote:
Revelation wrote:
In a few years the 779 will be in house and will serve to replace many of the premium-heavy aircraft being mentioned here.

The aero.de article that some of these rumors are based on even mentions that the 744 reactivation is due to 779 delays. I think LH would happily take delivery of the 779 right now if Boeing was able to.


I really doubt they’d take 779’s for an EIS right this second. They have crew, staffing, and equipment for the A346/744’s. This is easy to do, as such, and my guess is as a tier 1 customer/MRO supplier for Boeing they are getting good services/parts prices too for the 7-series as part of the 779 delays. Fuel is getting pricier, but frequencies on long-haul international are nothing what they were in 2019.
 
VMCA787
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:08 pm

 
Speedy752
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:54 pm

Side note but does anyone know why they think they will see such high premium demand? Isn’t Germany still primarily closed for travel? I’d like for them to be right but that seems implausible since the US and China are seeing low yields
 
tommy1808
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:29 am

Speedy752 wrote:
Isn’t Germany still primarily closed for travel?


Not really, unless you are coming from Botswana, Brazil, Eswatini, Lesotho, Malawi, Mozambique, Namibia, South Africa, Uruguay, Zambia or Zimbabwe fully vaccinated people can travel without restriction, Unvaccinated people only need 5 days quarantine as well if tested negative.

best regards
Thomas
 
Noshow
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:23 am

Not sure about the A380. But from a functional perspective Lufthansa will need many active long range aircraft to make their hub system work again. Having parked or retired much of the old fleet something needs to happen until those 777-9 come online it seems.
 
DUSZRH
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:51 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Unvaccinated people only need 5 days quarantine as well if tested negative.


This only applies to Germans/residents/EU+Schengen citizens. But as said before, vaccinated people are allowed in.

Otherwise, there's a positive list of mainly European countries (+ USA, AU, NZ, Thailand, Japan, Israel, Taiwan, HK), which are allowed to enter unvaccinated.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:15 pm

texl1649 wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
The aero.de article that some of these rumors are based on even mentions that the 744 reactivation is due to 779 delays. I think LH would happily take delivery of the 779 right now if Boeing was able to.

I really doubt they’d take 779’s for an EIS right this second. They have crew, staffing, and equipment for the A346/744’s. This is easy to do, as such, and my guess is as a tier 1 customer/MRO supplier for Boeing they are getting good services/parts prices too for the 7-series as part of the 779 delays. Fuel is getting pricier, but frequencies on long-haul international are nothing what they were in 2019.

Oh I agree that they wouldn't need them carrying passengers right this instant. But if they got them now, they could do pilot training and familiarization flights over the summer so that the 779 would be ready for the winter season, exactly when the 744 and A346 are rumored to return. All three types - 744, A346 and A388 - haven't flown for LH in the past 6 months so they need work to return them from storage. Most of the crews will need some extra training sessions as well.
 
xwb777
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:32 pm

It seems that some B744s will be back in service. DXB is scheduled with a B744 for Winter 2021/2022
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:16 pm

VMCA787 wrote:

This could be a short term move. I suspect it is just using available green time.

I cannot imagine LH paying for a C-check on the A380. If pilots take early retirement, that really ends the quantity an time frame.

As interesting as this is, I am in favor of LH shopping for newer types. The PAL A350s seem like a great option. The DY 787s are available. The production lines are still at reduced capacity.

A short term restart makes sense. But jet fuel is pricey enough to force other options mid-term, except for low utilization duty (only fly when the premium justifies elevated variable costs).

However, a batch flying in 2022, summer, is plausible. Perhaps also summer 2023.

Lightsaber
 
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:51 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
United top brass is saying that business travel won't bounce back to a meaningful level until 2023. I think for the A380 to succeed at LH, business traffic needs to come fully back. Until then, I think their 748s and 744s are adequate enough.

The 2nd link in #16 says:

When asked about the move in March 2019, the airline told Simple Flying: ‘Profitability [with the A380] Only possible on the most demanding routes.

The small fleet size makes it even harder for it to make a profit. As mentioned above, the goal may not be short term profit, it may be more along the lines of retaining elite customers.
 
Noshow
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:58 pm

At least they kept the next big thing, all their 747-8, in the active fleet. This might be a point supporting another big type. Having to pick A340-600 or A380 I would pick be the latter.
 
KFTG
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:50 pm

mxaxai wrote:
As noted in the other LH fleet thread, viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456007, they are getting an A359 (rumored up to 4 aircraft) from PAL.

Not a rumor anymore; one ex-PAL A350 has already arrived in Munich. Looks to be RP-C3506.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CRKJsEBsvaU ... _copy_link
 
777luver
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:24 pm

xwb777 wrote:
It seems that some B744s will be back in service. DXB is scheduled with a B744 for Winter 2021/2022


September/October schedule isn't even firmed........airlines are going month by month or so and have been for a while now so forget about winter schedule
 
RvA
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:47 pm

777luver wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
It seems that some B744s will be back in service. DXB is scheduled with a B744 for Winter 2021/2022


September/October schedule isn't even firmed........airlines are going month by month or so and have been for a while now so forget about winter schedule


You don’t schedule an aircraft that needed to be pulled out of sleeping in the desert with the intent to not use it. Money will already by now be spent on bringing it ready for duty. I’d say you can assume they fully intend to operate it, unless some very disastrous things happen once more. Btw I also see it on the Mumbai route later in the year.
 
777luver
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:48 pm

RvA wrote:
777luver wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
It seems that some B744s will be back in service. DXB is scheduled with a B744 for Winter 2021/2022


September/October schedule isn't even firmed........airlines are going month by month or so and have been for a while now so forget about winter schedule


You don’t schedule an aircraft that needed to be pulled out of sleeping in the desert with the intent to not use it. Money will already by now be spent on bringing it ready for duty. I’d say you can assume they fully intend to operate it, unless some very disastrous things happen once more. Btw I also see it on the Mumbai route later in the year.


My point was that the schedule is not even firm, not that they don't intend to use the 744...................
 
RvA
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:50 pm

777luver wrote:
RvA wrote:
777luver wrote:

September/October schedule isn't even firmed........airlines are going month by month or so and have been for a while now so forget about winter schedule


You don’t schedule an aircraft that needed to be pulled out of sleeping in the desert with the intent to not use it. Money will already by now be spent on bringing it ready for duty. I’d say you can assume they fully intend to operate it, unless some very disastrous things happen once more. Btw I also see it on the Mumbai route later in the year.


My point was that the schedule is not even firm, not that they don't intend to use the 744...................


I see. When you say not firm, do you mean that they expect to not operate what they actually schedule or how do you mean?
 
777luver
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:56 pm

RvA wrote:
777luver wrote:
RvA wrote:

You don’t schedule an aircraft that needed to be pulled out of sleeping in the desert with the intent to not use it. Money will already by now be spent on bringing it ready for duty. I’d say you can assume they fully intend to operate it, unless some very disastrous things happen once more. Btw I also see it on the Mumbai route later in the year.


My point was that the schedule is not even firm, not that they don't intend to use the 744...................


I see. When you say not firm, do you mean that they expect to not operate what they actually schedule or how do you mean?


I was saying that the airlines are not scheduling flights for even October right now, they are focusing on August maybe beginning of September. The situation is so fluid they can't book 4-6 months out is what I was getting at. So they may use the 744 but the schedules are wrong.
 
RvA
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:59 pm

777luver wrote:
RvA wrote:
777luver wrote:

My point was that the schedule is not even firm, not that they don't intend to use the 744...................


I see. When you say not firm, do you mean that they expect to not operate what they actually schedule or how do you mean?


I was saying that the airlines are not scheduling flights for even October right now, they are focusing on August maybe beginning of September. The situation is so fluid they can't book 4-6 months out is what I was getting at. So they may use the 744 but the schedules are wrong.


Aha ok I understand. I’m seeing schedules, announcements etc. for winter and also next summer already.
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:02 pm

777luver wrote:
RvA wrote:
777luver wrote:

My point was that the schedule is not even firm, not that they don't intend to use the 744...................


I see. When you say not firm, do you mean that they expect to not operate what they actually schedule or how do you mean?


I was saying that the airlines are not scheduling flights for even October right now, they are focusing on August maybe beginning of September. The situation is so fluid they can't book 4-6 months out is what I was getting at. So they may use the 744 but the schedules are wrong.


I agree with this as well, just because Lufthansa has the 744 on the September schedule right now doesn’t mean that’s a solid date for when they’ll fly. I know because I’m trying to take one on IAD-FRA-IAD and the 744 has been pushed from July to August to now September. I’m looking at flying one in December or next summer but it just shows you how fluid the situation is. If you’re trying to fly a Lufthansa 744, I personally wouldn’t book a flight until one is wheels up out of FRA on a commercial flight to wherever you’re going/coming from.
 
777luver
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:08 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
777luver wrote:
RvA wrote:

I see. When you say not firm, do you mean that they expect to not operate what they actually schedule or how do you mean?


I was saying that the airlines are not scheduling flights for even October right now, they are focusing on August maybe beginning of September. The situation is so fluid they can't book 4-6 months out is what I was getting at. So they may use the 744 but the schedules are wrong.


I agree with this as well, just because Lufthansa has the 744 on the September schedule right now doesn’t mean that’s a solid date for when they’ll fly. I know because I’m trying to take one on IAD-FRA-IAD and the 744 has been pushed from July to August to now September. I’m looking at flying one in December or next summer but it just shows you how fluid the situation is. If you’re trying to fly a Lufthansa 744, I personally wouldn’t book a flight until one is wheels up out of FRA on a commercial flight to wherever you’re going/coming from.


Exactly. Until it's actually in the air, it's not a done deal. As well, I'd imagine airlines will be able to book further and further out but I don't think it'll be that way for awhile longer until more countries are vaccinated and things stabilize a bit more
 
Grrflyer
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:17 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
YAY!!!!!

Back in 2017, I booked my trip to Germany on LH with the 747-8. Absolutely no regrets; however, I remember thinking, "yeah, the 747 might be gone soon, and the A380 will be around for a while..."

How quickly the world changed. But at least my next trip can be on one from LAX!

Question: Aside from the usual 'unique size' issues that go along with an A380, how much commonality is there to other Airbus aircraft in the cockpit?

LOL! I thought the exact same thing in 2019 when I flew to Paris. I Booked a flight to AMS just so I could come back on one of KLM’s 744’s before their retirement.

Getting an AF A380 on the way out was awesome but I figured I’d have another 5-10 yrs potentially to work that in. Crazy!
 
Noshow
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:30 am

...how much commonality is there to other Airbus aircraft in the cockpit?


The A380 and A350 cockpits are very similar.
 
NZ321
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Re: Lufthansa considering to bring back five A380 in 2022

Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:46 am

When asked about the move in March 2019, the airline told Simple Flying: ‘Profitability [with the A380] Only possible on the most demanding routes.

The small fleet size makes it even harder for it to make a profit. As mentioned above, the goal may not be short term profit, it may be more along the lines of retaining elite customers.[/quote]

What a revelation indeed! I thought this aircraft was designed precisely for that purpose - the most demanding routes - so it's a pretty meaningless statement when you think about it.

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