Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
RoyalBrunei757
Topic Author
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:36 am

> Billionaire Indian investor Rakesh Jhunjhunwala is reportedly considering plans to invest USD35 million in building a new ultra-low-cost carrier.
> The project, tentatively dubbed "Akasa" - Bengali for the sky.
> Plans to launch flight operations in mid-2022
> Has applied to India’s Ministry of Civil Aviation for a no-objection certificate.
> Once obtained, the start-up would then concentrate on raising funds and drafting a strong business plan that aims for a summer 2022 launch.
> To be led by a team of aviation professionals including ex-JW's CEO Vinay Dube, former revenue management chief at G8's Arvind Srinivasan, toether with ex-JW VP and ex-G8 COO Pravin Iyer.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... lcc-report

Seems like post-COVID 19 recovery economic activities is in full swing, just like aftermath of 9/11 that gave birth to explosion of LCC globally. Lease are dirt cheap, aircraft availability are abundant, governments are desperate to clam down uneployment rate. Jet Airways revival is also on its way with new owner. Ben Baldanza wrote a good analysis on the changing landscape of India aviation industry due to pandemic: https://www.forbes.com/sites/benbaldanz ... 4c676d1c45

A recap on scheduled airlines in India and its market share (January 2021):
Image

Full service:
1. Air India
2. Vistara

Low cost:
1. Air India Express
2. SpiceJet
3. IndiGo
4. AirAsia India

Ultra low cost:
1. Go First (formerly GoAir)
 
avier
Posts: 1291
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:03 pm

The thing that's convincing of this venture is it will be founded by very seasoned aviation professionals. All have held senior roles at major airlines, including Vinay Dube who was at DL.

This is a nice time to get into Indian aviation, considering all the existing older airlines are badly bruised. So barriers to entry aren't so high. Manpower and other resources like aircraft are available in plenty and cheap.

Along with this, Jet Airways will also resume under new owners as a mostly debt free organisation. Flybig started few months back and TruJet now finally wants to go big under new investors.

This Indian billionaire- Rakesh Jhunjhunwala- is more like an angel investor who will sell soon when he gets a fair price. His involvement is also more to bring confidence in other investors/financial institutions to come invest. He is more just to add the glamour factor in this new startup.
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1634
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:05 pm

Hey, what's the fastest way to become a millionaire in the airline biz? Start as a billionaire :) Sorry, I had to.
Good goes around!
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22670
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:15 pm

From OP's Forbes link:
I serve on the board of directors for Go First, the recent rebranded name of GoAir, one of the airlines catering to the “other 50%” not carried by Indigo.

Where are high Indigo fares?

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/trend ... 52321.html


The civil aviation ministry has set the cap on capacity utilisation at 50 percent of pre-COVID levels from 80 percent at the end of May and has increased the floor price on fares. However, if the number of air passengers does not pick up soon, these four airlines will continue struggling to regain market share and sustain operations.


In other words, a regulated environment exists to boost revenue on the limited passenger demand.

Now India is an environment where cost control is key. A well run new entrant without the lockdown losses is at an advantage. Used aircraft vs NEO/MAX benefits low utilization. While a good starting strategy, I wonder if now isn't a good time for a large new order. A223 high density? :devil:

Lightsaber
10 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Topic Author
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:32 am

Update: Former President of indiGo Aditya Ghosh to join Akasa Airlines as co-founder

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 42861.html

Former President of domestic carrier Indigo, Aditya Ghosh will be co-founder of India’s newest airline Akasa, along with market bull Rakesh Jhunjhunwala and former Jet Airways CEO Vinay Dube, sources told The Economic Times.

The sources said that Ghosh would own less than 10 percent of Akasa and will not be part of the management but will be on the board as Jhunjhunwala’s nominee; while the market ace himself will hold 40 percent stake and Dube will have 15 percent, plus post as CEO.

Investors in Akasa include Airbnb and Par Capital Management – which has interests in US ULCC Sun Country Airlines.

Management line up:
Former Jet Airways CEO Viny Dube will be CEO
Former Jet Airways senior VP Praveen Iyer will be COO
Former GoAir revenue management VP Anand Srinivasan will be CTO
Former Jet flight operations VP Floyd Gracious is likely to have a similar role.
Neelu Khatri is being billed as head of corporate affairs.

The airline plans to start up with 70 aircraft.
 
SkyVoice
Posts: 499
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:34 pm

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:01 am

It would only be fair if Akasa had a customer service telephone number set up so that, when someone from inside India calls, the call would be answered by someone in the USA . . . :bouncy:
Addicted to opiate painkillers for 25 years. Sober since 3 April, 2012 ! ! !
 
migair54
Posts: 2490
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:24 am

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:54 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Update: Former President of indiGo Aditya Ghosh to join Akasa Airlines as co-founder

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 42861.html

Former President of domestic carrier Indigo, Aditya Ghosh will be co-founder of India’s newest airline Akasa, along with market bull Rakesh Jhunjhunwala and former Jet Airways CEO Vinay Dube, sources told The Economic Times.

The sources said that Ghosh would own less than 10 percent of Akasa and will not be part of the management but will be on the board as Jhunjhunwala’s nominee; while the market ace himself will hold 40 percent stake and Dube will have 15 percent, plus post as CEO.

Investors in Akasa include Airbnb and Par Capital Management – which has interests in US ULCC Sun Country Airlines.

Management line up:
Former Jet Airways CEO Viny Dube will be CEO
Former Jet Airways senior VP Praveen Iyer will be COO
Former GoAir revenue management VP Anand Srinivasan will be CTO
Former Jet flight operations VP Floyd Gracious is likely to have a similar role.
Neelu Khatri is being billed as head of corporate affairs.

The airline plans to start up with 70 aircraft.


Serious business, with knowledgeable people.

Indian airports are going to become even busier, Do they even have space in CCU or BOM to have any more flights?? BOM, CCU, TRV have no space at all to grow, MAA, AMD need more terminal space also, and some other smaller airports really need an upgrade on runways, terminals and taxiways, most airlines in India have big plans with huge orders, however the infrastructure is not very saturated and I don't think the upgrade plans are sufficient to cope the future demand.

Maybe we will see more A321 in the future, more capacity and same space at airports, having widebodies is not an easy fix, I don't know if domestic terminals have a lot of widebody parking, specially with jet bridges, and boarding widebodies in remote stands are not that efficient for a low cost model


Do India still have the 5 year rule for international flighs??
 
atal17
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:56 am

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:10 am

migair54 wrote:

Do India still have the 5 year rule for international flighs??


No, but an airline in India must be operating atleast 20 aircraft before it can be considered eligible for international operations
 
User avatar
Rajahdhani
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:59 am

migair54 wrote:
Indian airports are going to become even busier, Do they even have space in CCU or BOM to have any more flights?? BOM, CCU, TRV have no space at all to grow, MAA, AMD need more terminal space also, and some other smaller airports really need an upgrade on runways, terminals and taxiways, most airlines in India have big plans with huge orders, however the infrastructure is not very saturated and I don't think the upgrade plans are sufficient to cope the future demand.

Maybe we will see more A321 in the future, more capacity and same space at airports, having widebodies is not an easy fix, I don't know if domestic terminals have a lot of widebody parking, specially with jet bridges, and boarding widebodies in remote stands are not that efficient for a low cost model.


Let's consider Mumbai, at large - and an interesting 'swing', in airports (and operations).

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/reports/adani-airports-more-expansion-in-india-more-equity-at-mumbai-551291"A more recent round has resulted in the emergence of the Adani Group, which is managing regional airports sufficiently well that Airports Authority of India is being financially rewarded from the concessions earlier than it might have expected. Now Adani has secured a 74% stake holding in Mumbai’s main airport, as well as in the new one, where there is some construction under way. This puts it in a more powerful position than most of its private sector predecessors."


So, the move at least as far as the AAI towards Adani Group (and to privatization as a whole) - puts the management and the focus of the airport, much more strongly within the hands of the key stake holder. For better, or worse - it means that this company would be beholden to customers (and to themselves, in a capitalistic/future/best interest) to keep/offer facilities and services that are actually needed. Free from bureaucratic intrusion from AAI - we may see greater responsibility and responsiveness towards the needs of all parties. A little "laissez-faire" towards Adani Group may well have said group realize what improvements could be made at BOM, and/or how Navi Mumbai International may be purposed to better serve what traffic will come that way. Case in point, would every carrier see the same demand, to the new airport? More likely, carriers will adjust portfolios and strategies to serve both (and if pricing were allowed to match services...) then allowing BOM's rates/costs/slots to appreciate in value (and/or restrictions enacted to further force scarcity) - could very well effect how Navi is developed and what services are offered there.

To Delhi, Noida's planned reality has proven to be rather fascinating.

Of Management Companies...

https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/jewar-international-airport-explained-what-is-the-project-when-will-it-commence-6143127/"Switzerland’s Zurich Airport International AG Friday won the contract to build the proposed airport in Jewar on the outskirts of Delhi. The Swiss company emerged as the highest bidder for the airport, outbidding competitors like Delhi International Airport Limited, Adani Enterprises, and Anchorage Infrastructure Investments Holdings Limited."


The Rationale...

https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/jewar-international-airport-explained-what-is-the-project-when-will-it-commence-6143127/"The airport is said to be spread over 5,000 hectares and will cost an estimated Rs 29,560 crores.
With six runways, it will be India’s largest and among the world’s largest airports.
The Jewar airport is aimed at reducing burden on IGI, seen reaching its peak capacity of handling close to 110 million passengers in the next 6-7 years. It will be a big positive for airlines operating with Delhi as their primary hub, because it will help deal with the restrained growth from the country’s largest airport due to slot constraints on the back of rising demand. The government also expects the airport to serve as an international hub for adjoining locations such as Noida, Agra, Mathura, Meerut, Moradabad, Bulandshahr and particularly Greater Noida, which has seen a surge in manufacturing facilities by several multinationals."


As for Punjab-

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/ludhiana/work-on-international-airport-at-halwara-picks-up-pace-230200 The decision to build a new international airport in the Maximum City of Punjab was taken after the state government had raised the demand with the Centre sometime back, following which the AAI conducted a pre-feasibility study of the Halwara IAF station and gave nod to set up international civil enclave here to meet the growing demand for civil flight operations.


The existing Ludhiana domestic airport at Sahnewal will be closed once the flight operations commence at the new civil enclave in Halwara.


So, I get that the market is demanding a range of solutions, to the issues at hand. New construction (linked, as with Navi and BOM), or new/competing authorities (as with DEL and Jewar/Noida) or even "International Enclaves" (and using existing IAF facilities at Ludhiana/Halawara) are just a few that I could think of, and coincidentally - are all in the North/West.

Not all carriers, then would need to operate at all airports - and some, will focus on network access, some with focus on trunk routes, and some will chose both, and some none - and while BOM and/or DEL might not be able to offer continued growth - other projects are certainly underway to change the landscape further. For this reason, not everyone may need wide bodes, or A321s, to work.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Topic Author
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:18 pm

Looks like Boeing has the lead in the new ULCC fleet order:

Indian billionaire's new airline may give Boeing a chance to regain lost ground

"NEW DELHI: Indian billionaire Rakesh Jhunjhunwala's plan to launch an ultra low-cost airline could give planemaker Boeing a chance to regain lost ground in India after the fall of one of its biggest customers, Jet Airways, two years ago, industry executives say.

Jhunjhunwala, known as India's Warren Buffett for his successful stock investments, plans to team up with former CEOs of IndiGo, the country's biggest carrier, and Jet Airways to tap into demand for domestic air travel."

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/bu ... d-15340066

If Boeing can pull this off with other two hotly contested fleet orders, that's another 180 737MAX! (Akasa 70 B737MAX + Jet2 50 B737MAX + ITA (Alitalia) 60 B737MAX)......
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22670
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:10 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Looks like Boeing has the lead in the new ULCC fleet order:

Indian billionaire's new airline may give Boeing a chance to regain lost ground

"NEW DELHI: Indian billionaire Rakesh Jhunjhunwala's plan to launch an ultra low-cost airline could give planemaker Boeing a chance to regain lost ground in India after the fall of one of its biggest customers, Jet Airways, two years ago, industry executives say.

Jhunjhunwala, known as India's Warren Buffett for his successful stock investments, plans to team up with former CEOs of IndiGo, the country's biggest carrier, and Jet Airways to tap into demand for domestic air travel."

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/bu ... d-15340066

If Boeing can pull this off with other two hotly contested fleet orders, that's another 180 737MAX! (Akasa 70 B737MAX + Jet2 50 B737MAX + ITA (Alitalia) 60 B737MAX)......

An Indian Warren Buffett investing in airlines... What is off here?

May give a chance doesn't exactly inspire confidence. We shall see.

Lightsaber
10 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 1205
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:58 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Looks like Boeing has the lead in the new ULCC fleet order:


How did you come to this conclusion? The article merely states that Boeing may have a chance. Nowhere has it been mentioned that the new airline is gearing towards Boeing for plane orders. So Boeing does not have any lead, at least not yet.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3902
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:59 am

I didn't realize that IndiGo's dominance on the market in India was so absolute. I have to wonder if any of the new staff has any inside information from 6E.
 
xwb777
Posts: 1162
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 pm

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:47 am

It seems that launching a new airline in India is like a piece of cake to some.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22670
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:35 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I didn't realize that IndiGo's dominance on the market in India was so absolute. I have to wonder if any of the new staff has any inside information from 6E.

The Indian aviation market is very price sensitive with many of the competition offering more premium seats than the market is ready to support. With such short flights, I'm not sure food service is as big a draw as many propose for the other airlines. Now, this is all just my opinion, but Indigo has focused on cost control. Many look at the low cost borrowing on the sale leaseback and ignore that every returned aircraft is one where Indigo paid off their loan (effectively, I know its a lease).
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 46411.html
Vistara tried differentiating but the bottomline tells a different story about the market accepting the differentiating. With Akasa largely expected to be a ULCC (Ultra Low Cost Carrier) it will be interesting to watch what it brings to the table!

They do a good job at the ULCC model on ancillary revenue. Don't give away what passengers don't care about. In my opinion airlines thrive when they offer what customers want and suffer when they spend on items the customer isn't willing to pay for. For example, we all love big seats, but they have to be done at an axillary revenue basis as most people will search the internet, buy the cheapest fare, and then grouse when they didn't get the pricier option they won't pay for.

This review notes what the crew was doing for an on time departure and the smiles of the crew as well as a clean cabin and watercloset. The end of the video hints at why the competition isn't doing as well.

Indigo, low cost done right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q1cwbAIxXU

Spicejet, low cost done wrong, not on time, f/as arguing, not smiling, lots of little defects in the cabin, and entertaining cargo handling that shows don't pack fragile items:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-TEeGmdZ5Q

The trick is offer enough (cleanliness, friendly cabin crew help bring back customers) as well as incredible cost control.

This is a link on cost control when Indigo was having many issues with the NEOs:
https://www.firstpost.com/business/indi ... 73781.html

However, now their cost control has down to 83 A320CEOs vs. 122 A320NEO and 40 A321NEO with more to come. Or soon at 1/3rd CEO 2/3rds NEO of the A32x fleet. With high India taxes on aviation fuel, having a more efficient fleet is a cost advantage:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IndiGo#Fleet

They are going to reduce fuel by 18% per seat in the next year:
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 624538.ece

To compare, SpiceJet is about 11% MAX (however, they did have MAX delays):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpiceJet#Fleet

I'm not sure what this airline is going to offer to differentiate itself. In my opinion, in India, the Indian market looks for:
1. Low base fare. The profits will be on ancillary revenue
2. On time service
3. Cleanliness of the cabin
4. Service, Indian customers seem unwilling to pay for a premium product, but they want to fill spoiled and special.

This new offering is too vague. I'm not sure what they are offering to outdo SpiceJet, Vistara, AirAsia, GoFirst, or government supported Air India. Honestly, it seems like many airlines in India are not very customer centric for what the market will pay.

The other issue is Air India. They won't go away and I wonder if they will be privitized (but that is another thread): https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... s?from=mdr

When there is a strong competitor and another competitor with... preferences given, it makes it a tough market to enter. Eventually there will be a clear competitor to Indigo, we just do not have that yet and I'm not seeing the business model for that to occur, yet. So perhaps this new airline will be that airline, perhaps not.

Lightsaber

Late edit:
Indigo is on a mission to return A320CEO (a hundred in a year from February 2021).
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/co ... 742761.ece

A link on JetFuel taxes in India:
https://www.thehindu.com/business/Indus ... 865885.ece

“Fuel accounts for about 24.2% of an airline’s average cost structure. In India, it is 34%, making India’s carriers particularly sensitive in this area. All airlines are already suffering from the rise in fuel prices and India’s regulatory and tax framework around fuel hits airlines serving this market harder,” Mr. Juniac said, addressing the International Aviation Summit.
Those fuel taxes incentivize Indian airlines to have the newest type fleets. So this new airline must be NEO, MAX, or A220 in my opinion.
10 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
Opus99
Posts: 2340
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:49 am

https://twitter.com/anuragkotoky/status ... 64929?s=21

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... an-startup

Boeing seems to set up to win a deal from a new Indian airline called Akasa. Deliveries are to start within the next 7 months. The airline did reach out to Airbus on the 320NEO but the delivery time was too long.

This would be a good deal for Boeing as it helps them improve their market share in India
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 12523
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:51 am

Boeing seems to be more flexible at the moment. How many whitetails does Boeing have for the 737?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 12067
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:11 am

Dutchy wrote:
Boeing seems to be more flexible at the moment. How many whitetails does Boeing have for the 737?

According to Boeing, not many: https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-off ... _headlines
UA, AS, and WN are apparently taking up a lot of the true whitetails Boeing had.

As I stated in the Airbus whitetail thread though, that doesn’t mean there are not aircraft that are being remarketed even if they are not official “whitetails”.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:29 am

With many cancellations, there might just be a few delivery positions open….
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
morrisond
Posts: 3497
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:22 am

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:16 pm

As we have seen from Boeing's latest Quarterly financials their financial situation is not dire as many on here are assuming. One has to remember that they also shed a ton of overhead - when MAX volumes get back above 30 per month the line should be quite profitable and resumption of 787 Deliveries should mean billions of positive cash flow.
 
Avgeek21
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:44 am

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:21 pm

Remember that the MAX is not permitted to takeoff/land in India. I believe only overflights are allowed. And I've seen no indication of the Indian regulator doing so very soon either. There is currently only 1 Indian carrier who has (only 7 IIRC?) the MAX? That being Spicejet. And they don't need planes now anyway. This new airline surely must know something we don't...
 
Opus99
Posts: 2340
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:25 pm

Avgeek21 wrote:
Remember that the MAX is not permitted to takeoff/land in India. I believe only overflights are allowed. And I've seen no indication of the Indian regulator doing so very soon either. There is currently only 1 Indian carrier who has (only 7 IIRC?) the MAX? That being Spicejet. And they don't need planes now anyway. This new airline surely must know something we don't...

They’re pushing the Indian government for recertification of the jet. Anyway they have about 7 months till deliveries. So they have time. As at 2 months ago many said there were no signs the chinese would even budge this year and here we are, the MAX is doing flights out of Shanghai.

So what am I saying, things can change very quickly
 
RoyalBrunei757
Topic Author
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:34 pm

Thank you for sharing the article. Few weeks ago I shared almost similiar article here Akasa main thread, almost got burned by some members a.net members here:

Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1462755&p=22896825&hilit=akasa#p22896825

Akasa would be more inclined towards Boeing due to several factors:
1. Jet Airways crew availability: Many of 9W pilots, cabin crew and ground crew are still looking for jobs even after few years the airline went out of business. This however will depends on how fast the new 9W will take off, however judging from the many stumbling block they are currently encountering, Akasa might have a better and earlier chance to take off.
2. Delivery slots availability: After few thousands cancellation, Boeing can offer more earlier production slots to Akasa compared to Airbus. Airbus has been removing several doubtful orders, but the A320neo line remains solidly booked till ast least 2023. Similarly, Airbus is not as keen to give out standard industry discount as Boeing and I am not implying Boeing is price dumping their B737MAX.
3. Spicejet crew availability: Spicejet has a massive debt load and they have been missing several months of payment for aeronautical usage at several main airports in India. They are owing wages too. Naturally, Akasa can easily poach these staff over.
4. Boeing aim to equi-balance the market share: Ever since Jet Airways went under, Boeing has been relying on Spicejet to hold the market share fort (Air India Express fleet is much smaller to put a dent), however referring point #3, it will be prudent for Boeing to have another operator in India market.
5. Board of management decision: The Board of Management except for Aditya are mainly made up ex-Jet Airways previous management team. This could have swayed the fleet decision. Maybe Aditya did asked Airbus for same price that he gotten for A320neo while he was with 6E, Airbus might not be able to or chose to accomodate.
 
User avatar
Heavierthanair
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 11:20 pm

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:06 pm

G'day

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
The Board of Management except for Aditya are mainly made up ex-Jet Airways previous management team. This could have swayed the fleet decision. Maybe Aditya did asked Airbus for same price that he gotten for A320neo while he was with 6E, Airbus might not be able to or chose to accomodate.


So the same people that ran Jet Airways into the ground are "entrusted" with managing the new startup airline. All I can say is: good luck! :banghead:

Cheers

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
RoyalBrunei757
Topic Author
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:32 pm

Heavierthanair wrote:
G'day

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
The Board of Management except for Aditya are mainly made up ex-Jet Airways previous management team. This could have swayed the fleet decision. Maybe Aditya did asked Airbus for same price that he gotten for A320neo while he was with 6E, Airbus might not be able to or chose to accomodate.


So the same people that ran Jet Airways into the ground are "entrusted" with managing the new startup airline. All I can say is: good luck! :banghead:

Cheers

Peter

Not really, the one who ran Jet Airways to the ground was its founder himself Naresh Goyal and his wife.The ex-Jet Airways management members you see in Akasa was appointed the final days of Jet Airways Mark I, they were trying to rescue it, but was hindered by Naresj Goyal himself.
 
oldJoe
Posts: 566
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:50 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Thank you for sharing the article. Few weeks ago I shared almost similiar article here Akasa main thread, almost got burned by some members a.net members here:

If other members are skeptical here and back it up with facts, is that burned?
3. Spicejet crew availability: Spicejet has a massive debt load and they have been missing several months of payment for aeronautical usage at several main airports in India. They are owing wages too. Naturally, Akasa can easily poach these staff over.

If Spicejet is in such a miserable financial position and Akasa lures pilots and crews away, they would end up bella up !? Who would that be bad for ?
Given that, according to the Wiki, (?) Spicejet has ordered another 192 MAX and Akasa will order (only) 80, Boeing is the loser
4. Boeing aim to equi-balance the market share:

How do they want to achieve that? Indian airlines have 700+ Airbus A320 Family on order ( see Wiki )
Finally, as is so often the case here on A.net, the dry ink on the contract counts! Does Akasa even have a contract? Even if they did, how much were the Kingfisher or Jet contracts worth, zero to be precise
 
avier
Posts: 1291
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:31 am

Do note that 'Akasa' is just one of the newer airlines opting for the 737MAX, with the other being the new incarnated Jet Airways also opting for the same aircraft and of a similar number of them. So in effect, Boeing will be getting atleast a 150+ new aircraft order for it's 737MAX.

The interesting bit of these two upcoming airlines is, they are both being born out of the former Jet Airways. One by way of having a new owner post bankruptcy court i.e the new Jet.
And the other (i.e Akasa) being formed by many of the former Jet veterans , some of whom were with the older airline from the time of it's inception. Hence, they both seem to be opting for Boeing aircraft, as that's what the former Jet operated.
The other reason ofcourse is a very weak Spicejet, who had also absorbed a lot of Jet employees in 2019. So in a way, it will be homecoming for those employees if they join the new Jet or Akasa.
In 2019, a collapsing Jet proved very beneficial to Spicejet, as they absorbed a lot of their crew, aircraft and important slots & int'l bilateral rights. And now just two years later, in a twist of fate, a weak Spice seems to be benefiting the two Jet incarnations that will be coming up.
 
Opus99
Posts: 2340
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:16 am

Opus99 wrote:
Avgeek21 wrote:
Remember that the MAX is not permitted to takeoff/land in India. I believe only overflights are allowed. And I've seen no indication of the Indian regulator doing so very soon either. There is currently only 1 Indian carrier who has (only 7 IIRC?) the MAX? That being Spicejet. And they don't need planes now anyway. This new airline surely must know something we don't...

They’re pushing the Indian government for recertification of the jet. Anyway they have about 7 months till deliveries. So they have time. As at 2 months ago many said there were no signs the chinese would even budge this year and here we are, the MAX is doing flights out of Shanghai.

So what am I saying, things can change very quickly

https://twitter.com/anuragkotoky/status ... 01765?s=21

There you go my friend. Things can change very quickly
 
User avatar
ikolkyo
Posts: 3271
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:22 pm

737 MAX ban in India is expected to be lifted in the coming days, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ajor-boost
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3320
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:28 pm

avier wrote:
Do note that 'Akasa' is just one of the newer airlines opting for the 737MAX, with the other being the new incarnated Jet Airways also opting for the same aircraft and of a similar number of them. So in effect, Boeing will be getting atleast a 150+ new aircraft order for it's 737MAX.

The interesting bit of these two upcoming airlines is, they are both being born out of the former Jet Airways. One by way of having a new owner post bankruptcy court i.e the new Jet.
And the other (i.e Akasa) being formed by many of the former Jet veterans , some of whom were with the older airline from the time of it's inception. Hence, they both seem to be opting for Boeing aircraft, as that's what the former Jet operated.
The other reason ofcourse is a very weak Spicejet, who had also absorbed a lot of Jet employees in 2019. So in a way, it will be homecoming for those employees if they join the new Jet or Akasa.
In 2019, a collapsing Jet proved very beneficial to Spicejet, as they absorbed a lot of their crew, aircraft and important slots & int'l bilateral rights. And now just two years later, in a twist of fate, a weak Spice seems to be benefiting the two Jet incarnations that will be coming up.


Is that true the "new" Jet will use MAXes? Do you have a source (just curious to read it, not suggesting you are making it up)?
 
avier
Posts: 1291
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:23 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Is that true the "new" Jet will use MAXes? Do you have a source (just curious to read it, not suggesting you are making it up)?

This is the latest on the development regarding their aircraft order;
https://twitter.com/ETNOWlive/status/14 ... 9719107586

It's been known since a while, as mentioned by their new promoters, that they'd tilt towards Boeing aircraft and that they'd like to have a fleet of around 120 planes in five years from start. (sounds rather ambitious).

But there has been no official confirmation of any order yet.

They have put out notifications , few days back, for hiring experienced Pilots & Cabin Crew. They using a pic of 737max in their notifications and other posts, suggesting something.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3320
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:27 pm

avier wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Is that true the "new" Jet will use MAXes? Do you have a source (just curious to read it, not suggesting you are making it up)?

This is the latest on the development regarding their aircraft order;
https://twitter.com/ETNOWlive/status/14 ... 9719107586

It's been known since a while, as mentioned by their new promoters, that they'd tilt towards Boeing aircraft and that they'd like to have a fleet of around 120 planes in five years from start. (sounds rather ambitious).

But there has been no official confirmation of any order yet.

They have put out notifications , few days back, for hiring experienced Pilots & Cabin Crew. They using a pic of 737max in their notifications and other posts, suggesting something.


Thanks! I remember the twitter post for labor with the pic, but thought people were reading too much into it. The other news article seems to be credible. Both seem to be ambitious, but Boeing has diminished the ambitious airlines in India and SE Asia to its detriment historically.
 
oldJoe
Posts: 566
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:18 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
737 MAX ban in India is expected to be lifted in the coming days, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ajor-boost


This is very good news for the leasing company that wants to get their (ex Jet Airways) 737 Max out of the country !
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Jet%20Airways-history-b737ng-70.htm
wich are going to GOL
 
User avatar
REDHL
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:19 pm

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:29 pm

oldJoe wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
737 MAX ban in India is expected to be lifted in the coming days, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ajor-boost


This is very good news for the leasing company that wants to get their (ex Jet Airways) 737 Max out of the country !
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Jet%20Airways-history-b737ng-70.htm
wich are going to GOL


In fact, the DGCA had already given the green light to lessors in that aspect with the partial lifting of the flight ban back in April. The lessors started flying their MAXes out of India a month later and the first of them (PS-GPA, previously registered VT-JXF) has already been delivered to GOL.
 
oldJoe
Posts: 566
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:54 pm

REDHL wrote:
oldJoe wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
737 MAX ban in India is expected to be lifted in the coming days, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ajor-boost


This is very good news for the leasing company that wants to get their (ex Jet Airways) 737 Max out of the country !
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Jet%20Airways-history-b737ng-70.htm
wich are going to GOL


In fact, the DGCA had already given the green light to lessors in that aspect with the partial lifting of the flight ban back in April. The lessors started flying their MAXes out of India a month later and the first of them (PS-GPA, previously registered VT-JXF) has already been delivered to GOL.


But it is strange that the Boeing teams were already there in March to start the "return to service" and none of the planes took off in August?
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/boeing-begins-return-to-service-work-on-five-737-max-that-were-part-of-jet-airwayss-fleet-report-6674631.html
Continue from the same article :
Any changes to the 737 Max aircraft can be made only after the approval of the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA), SpiceJet sources told the paper.

Sounds fishy to me. You can fly out the plane but not without the approval of changes !???
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 12067
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:15 pm

oldJoe wrote:
REDHL wrote:
oldJoe wrote:

This is very good news for the leasing company that wants to get their (ex Jet Airways) 737 Max out of the country !
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Jet%20Airways-history-b737ng-70.htm
wich are going to GOL


In fact, the DGCA had already given the green light to lessors in that aspect with the partial lifting of the flight ban back in April. The lessors started flying their MAXes out of India a month later and the first of them (PS-GPA, previously registered VT-JXF) has already been delivered to GOL.


But it is strange that the Boeing teams were already there in March to start the "return to service" and none of the planes took off in August?
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/boeing-begins-return-to-service-work-on-five-737-max-that-were-part-of-jet-airwayss-fleet-report-6674631.html
Continue from the same article :
Any changes to the 737 Max aircraft can be made only after the approval of the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA), SpiceJet sources told the paper.

Sounds fishy to me. You can fly out the plane but not without the approval of changes !???

None of Jet’s 737Max’s are stored in India anymore. The ones delivered to India before grounding were all flown out to either VCV or PRG the last week of May or first week of June. Boeing’s “return to service” work was just to make them legally airworthy again (eg installing the new flight software). After that it is up the lessors to place them somewhere, repaint/change interior as needed etc, and airlines to accept them and put them back into regular use.

They didn’t bother doing Spicejet’s at the time because Spicejet wasn’t able to legally operate the aircraft still. They did Jet’s so the leasing companies that owned those jets could get them out of the country (with India’s permission) to a more suitable storage facility for eventual placement somewhere else.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 26548
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Boeing poised to win 80 aircraft deal in India

Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:08 pm

oldJoe wrote:
REDHL wrote:
In fact, the DGCA had already given the green light to lessors in that aspect with the partial lifting of the flight ban back in April. The lessors started flying their MAXes out of India a month later and the first of them (PS-GPA, previously registered VT-JXF) has already been delivered to GOL.

But it is strange that the Boeing teams were already there in March to start the "return to service" and none of the planes took off in August?
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/boeing-begins-return-to-service-work-on-five-737-max-that-were-part-of-jet-airwayss-fleet-report-6674631.html
Continue from the same article :
Any changes to the 737 Max aircraft can be made only after the approval of the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA), SpiceJet sources told the paper.

Sounds fishy to me. You can fly out the plane but not without the approval of changes !???

Not really fishy to me, there's a huge difference between ferrying empty planes around vs carrying passengers in revenue flight. Boeing was ferrying around empty planes from Seattle all the way to San Antonio as well as other place before the MCAS fix was available, and these flights were at full speed/altitude. Some EU countries allowed MAX movements on ferry permits with some restrictions on speed/altitude. Some similar arrangements were put in place for the lease returns, IMO.

What seems fishier to me is the Bloomberg article in #29 saying DGCA sat on their approval till they got a better idea of the public reaction. Would be nice if they just did their jobs and looked at the technical data, but I guess I'm asking for too much.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
avier
Posts: 1291
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:06 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
...

Can the thread title now be updated to reflect the new airline identity? Rather than that of a news headline still.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Topic Author
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:21 pm

avier wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
...

Can the thread title now be updated to reflect the new airline identity? Rather than that of a news headline still.

Tbh at this moment, they have not receive AOC yet, and the owner has not made formal announcement the new airline is named as such, just merely promoting it as Akasa.
 
ricq
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:25 am

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:15 pm

How do we pronounce Akasa? In English it is usually written Akasha with an "h" and the "h" is pronounced. Do we pronounce it with an "h" even though it is written Akasa, without the "h" [like most Sanskrit derived words]? Wiki: Akasha or Akash (Sanskrit ākāśa आकाश) means space or sky or æther in traditional Indian cosmology, depending on the religion. Or, is this a different word not related to Akasha?
 
avier
Posts: 1291
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian billionaire mulls investment in new ULCC - report

Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:38 pm

ricq wrote:
How do we pronounce Akasa? In English it is usually written Akasha with an "h" and the "h" is pronounced. Do we pronounce it with an "h" even though it is written Akasa, without the "h" [like most Sanskrit derived words]? Wiki: Akasha or Akash (Sanskrit ākāśa आकाश) means space or sky or æther in traditional Indian cosmology, depending on the religion. Or, is this a different word not related to Akasha?

Aakash is more of a Hindi word. So the 'h' is pronounced along with the 's' like of the 'sh' of the pronoun she.
But Hindi is derived from Sanskrit, so in Sanskrit it would be Akasa without the 'h' and it wouldn't be pronounced that way either. So they using a pure sanskrit word and going with their pronunciation too. The two words have the same meaning in either languages.
It's much like how many words in English are derived from Latin, and so it's almost like following the actual Latin word and it's pronounciation rather than that of the English style.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos