Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
reltney wrote:Holy cow. How you can lose control of a flyable aircraft with 3 pilots aboard. Many problems here. Aviate Navigate and when you get a chance, Communicate with atc.
Cheers
wingman wrote:Case study for single pilot ops. The story doesn’t mention souls on board but they’d all be in heaven by now.
reltney wrote:Holy cow. How you can lose control of a flyable aircraft with 3 pilots aboard. Many problems here. Aviate Navigate and when you get a chance, Communicate with atc.
Cheers
Heinkel wrote:So much about advantages of having three people on the flight deck. In this case it only added confusion.
Just another example, how unsafe this manual flying is.
Designing automatic flight controls is an art.
Pilots monitoring must be fully aware of the mode.
Each sets personal performance expectations.
Mode confusion, especially degraded or unexpected operation, is the dominant threat to aviation safety.
Human factors cannot be denied.
JT610 mode confusion, unknown mode
AF447 mode confusion, envelope protection
OZ214 mode confusion, speed protection
EK521 mode confusion, thrust mode
TK6491 mode confusion, glide slope
AF072 mode confusion, thrust mode
A320 Habsheim, mode confusion, thrust mode
Saying every system on the airplane must be fail-safe, that the pilot is not part of the response to failure and malfunction, is much bigger than voting sensor inputs.
Pilots should be accountable for airspeed and altitude.
Pilots should be accountable to mode display.
Heinkel wrote:So much about advantages of having three people on the flight deck. In this case it only added confusion.
Just another example, how unsafe this manual flying is.
N1120A wrote:Heinkel wrote:So much about advantages of having three people on the flight deck. In this case it only added confusion.
Just another example, how unsafe this manual flying is.
Lol. How unsafe manual flying is? Now that is a mentality that will get people killed.
Heinkel wrote:N1120A wrote:Heinkel wrote:So much about advantages of having three people on the flight deck. In this case it only added confusion.
Just another example, how unsafe this manual flying is.
Lol. How unsafe manual flying is? Now that is a mentality that will get people killed.
Nope. Sky gods taking too much risk are killing much more people. Every statistic says that.
And the CL 600 crash at TRK a few days ago shows just that, too.
Heinkel wrote:So much about advantages of having three people on the flight deck. In this case it only added confusion.
Just another example, how unsafe this manual flying is.
Heinkel wrote:N1120A wrote:Heinkel wrote:So much about advantages of having three people on the flight deck. In this case it only added confusion.
Just another example, how unsafe this manual flying is.
Lol. How unsafe manual flying is? Now that is a mentality that will get people killed.
Nope. Sky gods taking too much risk are killing much more people. Every statistic says that.
And the CL 600 crash at TRK a few days ago shows just that, too.
randomdude83 wrote:Heinkel wrote:So much about advantages of having three people on the flight deck. In this case it only added confusion.
Just another example, how unsafe this manual flying is.
You should check UA1175, it took three crew members to save 375 people from death.
AirlineCritic wrote:I'm very glad that this event turned out fine in the end. But it is interesting how a quickly a single situation (alarms, a rare go-around) can confuse/startle one person. And how this lead to two pilots being confused / uncoordinated in the cockpit, and then how computers and and two confused pilots impacted captain's performance. How small is the difference between everything being ok and the potential for catastrophe...
Galwayman wrote:Too many pilots . Two is the perfect number for communication
F27500 wrote:.. and what exactly does the name "French Bee" mean ?
kalvado wrote:F27500 wrote:.. and what exactly does the name "French Bee" mean ?
More or less the same as "American Airilines" or "Air Canada" - the name of the home state and something flight-related.
F27500 wrote:kalvado wrote:F27500 wrote:.. and what exactly does the name "French Bee" mean ?
More or less the same as "American Airilines" or "Air Canada" - the name of the home state and something flight-related.
Then i think "French Pterodactyl" or "French Dodo Bird" would even have been better. But naming an airline after an insect ?
Heinkel wrote:N1120A wrote:Heinkel wrote:So much about advantages of having three people on the flight deck. In this case it only added confusion.
Just another example, how unsafe this manual flying is.
Lol. How unsafe manual flying is? Now that is a mentality that will get people killed.
Nope. Sky gods taking too much risk are killing much more people. Every statistic says that.
And the CL 600 crash at TRK a few days ago shows just that, too.
Italianflyer wrote:F27500 wrote:kalvado wrote:More or less the same as "American Airilines" or "Air Canada" - the name of the home state and something flight-related.
Then i think "French Pterodactyl" or "French Dodo Bird" would even have been better. But naming an airline after an insect ?
I guess that's why the consultants nixed the idea of JALs latest ultra low cost, high end ultra extreme long distance yet budget division 'Japanese Murder Hornet'.
wingman wrote:Case study for single pilot ops. The story doesn’t mention souls on board but they’d all be in heaven by now.
graceintheair wrote:randomdude83 wrote:Heinkel wrote:So much about advantages of having three people on the flight deck. In this case it only added confusion.
Just another example, how unsafe this manual flying is.
You should check UA1175, it took three crew members to save 375 people from death.
I certainly did not get that impression from reading the report.
AirKevin wrote:graceintheair wrote:randomdude83 wrote:You should check UA1175, it took three crew members to save 375 people from death.
I certainly did not get that impression from reading the report.
Tell that to the Captain, who said it himself in an interview. He didn't take his hands off the yoke or thrust levers at all because he wasn't taking his chances. He was focused on flying, the other two were doing everything else. One of the pilots actually had to put his shoulder harness on for him.