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usflyer msp
Posts: 4364
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:01 pm

32andBelow wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
The AA defenders are really working overtime these days lol . Good to see they have still have the energy

The service on all legacies has gone downhill so much, let's see what product remains lost covid. The real question is what service cuts become permanent. Nothing specific to AA, all legacies legacies have cut alot

Right now AA feels the most like spirit but with worse customer service, more cancellations and oasis seats are way less comfy then the big front seats on spirit.


No.
People are being hyperbolic about what was essentially 10 substandard operational days due to pilot staffing.
AA adjusted their schedule to compensate and there really haven't been further issues. Of course, now you have people complaining that AA adjusted their schedule.
These same people are being completely mute about WN actually having a summer from hell and not taking any action to address it.

A close in schedule change is pretty bad tho. Changing people’s travel plans by hours or sometimes days is not reliable. It just doesn’t show up as a cancellation


I feel for the people who had their plans changed 1-day to two weeks out - that sucks and AA deserves the dragging for that.
The over 30-day out schedule change that another poster is talking about in this thread has been the norm during COVID for all carriers and is really just drama queen behaviour.
 
lowfareair
Posts: 330
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:40 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:52 pm

crownvic wrote:
The defenders of AA are alive and well here. All I am reading is how the problems are all in the past. Meanwhile, they just cancelled my return nonstop leg PHL-LAS in August and have put me on another connection. So, the problems are not over. Then they want to offer me a credit instead of a refund? Look forward to this battle. I just cancelled the trip and now refuse to fly this airline anymore.


Going from nonstop to connection is enough for a refund - just send them a message on Twitter and they should do it quickly if you can't do it through their website.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5742
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:08 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

No.
People are being hyperbolic about what was essentially 10 substandard operational days due to pilot staffing.
AA adjusted their schedule to compensate and there really haven't been further issues. Of course, now you have people complaining that AA adjusted their schedule.
These same people are being completely mute about WN actually having a summer from hell and not taking any action to address it.

A close in schedule change is pretty bad tho. Changing people’s travel plans by hours or sometimes days is not reliable. It just doesn’t show up as a cancellation


I feel for the people who had their plans changed 1-day to two weeks out - that sucks and AA deserves the dragging for that.
The over 30-day out schedule change that another poster is talking about in this thread has been the norm during COVID for all carriers and is really just drama queen behaviour.

We are reopen. 2 million people are flying a day. The 30 day schedule changes should end. It can really mess you up if you’re hitting additional transportation after you land.
 
USAirKid
Posts: 915
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:11 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
crownvic wrote:
The defenders of AA are alive and well here. All I am reading is how the problems are all in the past. Meanwhile, they just cancelled my return nonstop leg PHL-LAS in August and have put me on another connection. So, the problems are not over. Then they want to offer me a credit instead of a refund? Look forward to this battle. I just cancelled the trip and now refuse to fly this airline anymore.


If your flight is not until August that is a schedule change not a cancellation. Words matter.
The AA COC is pretty clear that you are eligible for a refund if you are changed from a non-stop to a connection. It isn't automatic - you have to go to https://prefunds.aa.com and request it.


USFlyer is correct.

And since I looked it up once, it’s a schedule change if it’s made more than 168 hours (1 week) ahead of departure. It’s a cancellation if it’s made less than 168 hours ahead of departure.

Crownvic, sure this schedule change sucks, but would you prefer this or a last minute delay? A schedule change even just over a week in advance is better customer service than just leaving the flight and cancelling it just a few days or hours before (or after) it is supposed to depart.

The airlines in normal times are an absurdly complex business. In rapidly changing times? It’s an absurdly complex business raised to the tenth power.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4364
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:28 pm

32andBelow wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
A close in schedule change is pretty bad tho. Changing people’s travel plans by hours or sometimes days is not reliable. It just doesn’t show up as a cancellation


I feel for the people who had their plans changed 1-day to two weeks out - that sucks and AA deserves the dragging for that.
The over 30-day out schedule change that another poster is talking about in this thread has been the norm during COVID for all carriers and is really just drama queen behaviour.

We are reopen. 2 million people are flying a day. The 30 day schedule changes should end. It can really mess you up if you’re hitting additional transportation after you land.


Is it really that hard to reschedule ground transport one month in advance?
The traveler also has the option of switching to a different flight that will better meet their needs if there are time limitations.
 
HII
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:13 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:31 pm

floridaflyboy wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:

I've always wondered how the airlines got away with paying their employees so little (except the C suite of course). Maybe the travel benefits used to be appealing enough to make up for the low pay, but that no longer seems to be the case!


There is a large brain drain in the corporate side. Accountants/Finance/Legal won't stick around for airline pay if they're good at their job. If they aren't..


:checkmark:

This is very true. I started at an airline HQ in 2010 in human resources. They had a superb staff in our area. There is literally not one single person left who was there when I started. Everyone has either left the industry entirely or (in my case) moved to a non-airline sector of aviation. The pay just wasn't worth it and the travel benefits are practically useless anymore.


100% agreed with this. I left aviation for a different sector that paid more than enough to purchase my own flights instead. With the added benefit of not having to worry about being laid off every few years, I could never go back into commercial aviation finance again.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5742
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:11 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

I feel for the people who had their plans changed 1-day to two weeks out - that sucks and AA deserves the dragging for that.
The over 30-day out schedule change that another poster is talking about in this thread has been the norm during COVID for all carriers and is really just drama queen behaviour.

We are reopen. 2 million people are flying a day. The 30 day schedule changes should end. It can really mess you up if you’re hitting additional transportation after you land.


Is it really that hard to reschedule ground transport one month in advance?
The traveler also has the option of switching to a different flight that will better meet their needs if there are time limitations.

It is if your going somewhere remote and connecting with another plane. Or it could mean another 300 dollar hotel cus you now have to fly the day before.
 
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AirKevin
Posts: 865
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:08 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

I feel for the people who had their plans changed 1-day to two weeks out - that sucks and AA deserves the dragging for that.
The over 30-day out schedule change that another poster is talking about in this thread has been the norm during COVID for all carriers and is really just drama queen behaviour.

We are reopen. 2 million people are flying a day. The 30 day schedule changes should end. It can really mess you up if you’re hitting additional transportation after you land.


Is it really that hard to reschedule ground transport one month in advance?
The traveler also has the option of switching to a different flight that will better meet their needs if there are time limitations.

Depends what mode of ground transport you're talking about. Rental cars might be available one day, but not another. Same for buses and trains. Cruise ship? Good luck.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4364
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:29 pm

AirKevin wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
We are reopen. 2 million people are flying a day. The 30 day schedule changes should end. It can really mess you up if you’re hitting additional transportation after you land.


Is it really that hard to reschedule ground transport one month in advance?
The traveler also has the option of switching to a different flight that will better meet their needs if there are time limitations.

Depends what mode of ground transport you're talking about. Rental cars might be available one day, but not another. Same for buses and trains. Cruise ship? Good luck.


Honestly, if a couple of hours is going to make that much of a difference you have scheduled your trip too tightly. You should be flying in the day before a cruise and have back up options for other forms of transport. What you do if there was a legit weather delay on the day of travel?
 
32andBelow
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:57 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

Is it really that hard to reschedule ground transport one month in advance?
The traveler also has the option of switching to a different flight that will better meet their needs if there are time limitations.

Depends what mode of ground transport you're talking about. Rental cars might be available one day, but not another. Same for buses and trains. Cruise ship? Good luck.


Honestly, if a couple of hours is going to make that much of a difference you have scheduled your trip too tightly. You should be flying in the day before a cruise and have back up options for other forms of transport. What you do if there was a legit weather delay on the day of travel?

It still applies. If you planned to go the day before now you might have to go two days before when AA cancels the flight they sold you
 
ikramerica
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:24 pm

Well, the car service we booked knew AA changed our flight departure time 3 days before AA reflected it in our reservation… I thought their info was wrong, then three days later, AA finally tells us about it.

When we booked months ago, our connection was 70 minutes. Then 1st schedule change made it 52 minutes. Second made it 86 minutes and we felt comfortable again. Now this latest change less than 2 weeks out cut it back to 52 minutes again and the flight is coming up in a few days. And with so little warning, try finding 4available F seats available on the route on our day of travel.

We are crossing our fingers that we connect okay.
 
32andBelow
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:14 pm

ikramerica wrote:
Well, the car service we booked knew AA changed our flight departure time 3 days before AA reflected it in our reservation… I thought their info was wrong, then three days later, AA finally tells us about it.

When we booked months ago, our connection was 70 minutes. Then 1st schedule change made it 52 minutes. Second made it 86 minutes and we felt comfortable again. Now this latest change less than 2 weeks out cut it back to 52 minutes again and the flight is coming up in a few days. And with so little warning, try finding 4available F seats available on the route on our day of travel.

We are crossing our fingers that we connect okay.

Don’t worry they will rebook you into row 30 seat b
 
usflyer msp
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:28 am

32andBelow wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
Depends what mode of ground transport you're talking about. Rental cars might be available one day, but not another. Same for buses and trains. Cruise ship? Good luck.


Honestly, if a couple of hours is going to make that much of a difference you have scheduled your trip too tightly. You should be flying in the day before a cruise and have back up options for other forms of transport. What you do if there was a legit weather delay on the day of travel?

It still applies. If you planned to go the day before now you might have to go two days before when AA cancels the flight they sold you


I have not heard one report of someone not being able to be rebooked the same day due to an advance schedule change.
At the last minute- Yes but weeks in advance there are usually plenty of options.
 
alasizon
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:36 am

ikramerica wrote:
Well, the car service we booked knew AA changed our flight departure time 3 days before AA reflected it in our reservation… I thought their info was wrong, then three days later, AA finally tells us about it.

When we booked months ago, our connection was 70 minutes. Then 1st schedule change made it 52 minutes. Second made it 86 minutes and we felt comfortable again. Now this latest change less than 2 weeks out cut it back to 52 minutes again and the flight is coming up in a few days. And with so little warning, try finding 4available F seats available on the route on our day of travel.

We are crossing our fingers that we connect okay.


Not sure where you are going but there have been a handful of changes (not just AA) at certain airports for departure spacing in the peak AM and early afternoon periods of busy VFR airports due to TSA advising the airlines they are unable to staff the security checkpoints and baggage screening to an acceptable level to ensure an on-time departure. In turn this is also causing gate availability issues for common use gates at these same airports.
 
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AirKevin
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:03 am

usflyer msp wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Is it really that hard to reschedule ground transport one month in advance?
The traveler also has the option of switching to a different flight that will better meet their needs if there are time limitations.

Depends what mode of ground transport you're talking about. Rental cars might be available one day, but not another. Same for buses and trains. Cruise ship? Good luck.

Honestly, if a couple of hours is going to make that much of a difference you have scheduled your trip too tightly. You should be flying in the day before a cruise and have back up options for other forms of transport. What you do if there was a legit weather delay on the day of travel?

Depending on the timing, a couple hours easily could. Suppose those couple hours puts you past when buses shut down, trains shut down, or rental car places shut down. Then what. And if the flight reschedule puts you in a position where you don't fly out until a day or two later, then you have a new set of problems.
 
crownvic
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:59 am

USAirKid wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
crownvic wrote:
The defenders of AA are alive and well here. All I am reading is how the problems are all in the past. Meanwhile, they just cancelled my return nonstop leg PHL-LAS in August and have put me on another connection. So, the problems are not over. Then they want to offer me a credit instead of a refund? Look forward to this battle. I just cancelled the trip and now refuse to fly this airline anymore.


If your flight is not until August that is a schedule change not a cancellation. Words matter.
The AA COC is pretty clear that you are eligible for a refund if you are changed from a non-stop to a connection. It isn't automatic - you have to go to https://prefunds.aa.com and request it.


USFlyer is correct.

And since I looked it up once, it’s a schedule change if it’s made more than 168 hours (1 week) ahead of departure. It’s a cancellation if it’s made less than 168 hours ahead of departure.

Crownvic, sure this schedule change sucks, but would you prefer this or a last minute delay? A schedule change even just over a week in advance is better customer service than just leaving the flight and cancelling it just a few days or hours before (or after) it is supposed to depart.

The airlines in normal times are an absurdly complex business. In rapidly changing times? It’s an absurdly complex business raised to the tenth power.


The problem is, we were re-booked on a connecting red eye, that gives us a risky 25 minute connection in Chicago. Red eye flights originate at the tail end of a days worth of flying and could easily be subjected to rolling delays. So, if we are late in any way getting into ORD and miss the connection, then what? Suppose the remaining ORD-PHL flights are full? Then what? Who knows how long we can be stranded at ORD with little or no compassion. Then when you try and review your ticket, AA makes it impossible to see if the ticket is refundable or not. As was mentioned on this thread, you have to basically "roll the dice" and submit a refund request not knowing whether you are entitled to a refund or not. I spent two hours with several people trying to just find out what kind of ticket I had, and none of us could figure it out. I even tried to call AA with zero luck. They offered me a call back service which I opted for. Never heard back.

Sorry, but when you spend $3000.00 on two domestic First Class tickets and you get zero service, that is not a way to run an airline. Bottom line is, I cancelled and re-booked on DL regardless of the refund.
 
bigb
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:12 am

crownvic wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

If your flight is not until August that is a schedule change not a cancellation. Words matter.
The AA COC is pretty clear that you are eligible for a refund if you are changed from a non-stop to a connection. It isn't automatic - you have to go to https://prefunds.aa.com and request it.


USFlyer is correct.

And since I looked it up once, it’s a schedule change if it’s made more than 168 hours (1 week) ahead of departure. It’s a cancellation if it’s made less than 168 hours ahead of departure.

Crownvic, sure this schedule change sucks, but would you prefer this or a last minute delay? A schedule change even just over a week in advance is better customer service than just leaving the flight and cancelling it just a few days or hours before (or after) it is supposed to depart.

The airlines in normal times are an absurdly complex business. In rapidly changing times? It’s an absurdly complex business raised to the tenth power.


The problem is, we were re-booked on a connecting red eye, that gives us a risky 25 minute connection in Chicago. Red eye flights originate at the tail end of a days worth of flying and could easily be subjected to rolling delays. So, if we are late in any way getting into ORD and miss the connection, then what? Suppose the remaining ORD-PHL flights are full? Then what? Who knows how long we can be stranded at ORD with little or no compassion. Then when you try and review your ticket, AA makes it impossible to see if the ticket is refundable or not. As was mentioned on this thread, you have to basically "roll the dice" and submit a refund request not knowing whether you are entitled to a refund or not. I spent two hours with several people trying to just find out what kind of ticket I had, and none of us could figure it out. I even tried to call AA with zero luck. They offered me a call back service which I opted for. Never heard back.

Sorry, but when you spend $3000.00 on two domestic First Class tickets and you get zero service, that is not a way to run an airline. Bottom line is, I cancelled and re-booked on DL regardless of the refund.


There you go, problem solved. I am not here to defend AA, but you had ample to review the changes and if you dislike, you got your refund and went to Delta.
 
usflyer msp
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:26 pm

crownvic wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

If your flight is not until August that is a schedule change not a cancellation. Words matter.
The AA COC is pretty clear that you are eligible for a refund if you are changed from a non-stop to a connection. It isn't automatic - you have to go to https://prefunds.aa.com and request it.


USFlyer is correct.

And since I looked it up once, it’s a schedule change if it’s made more than 168 hours (1 week) ahead of departure. It’s a cancellation if it’s made less than 168 hours ahead of departure.

Crownvic, sure this schedule change sucks, but would you prefer this or a last minute delay? A schedule change even just over a week in advance is better customer service than just leaving the flight and cancelling it just a few days or hours before (or after) it is supposed to depart.

The airlines in normal times are an absurdly complex business. In rapidly changing times? It’s an absurdly complex business raised to the tenth power.


The problem is, we were re-booked on a connecting red eye, that gives us a risky 25 minute connection in Chicago. Red eye flights originate at the tail end of a days worth of flying and could easily be subjected to rolling delays. So, if we are late in any way getting into ORD and miss the connection, then what? Suppose the remaining ORD-PHL flights are full? Then what? Who knows how long we can be stranded at ORD with little or no compassion. Then when you try and review your ticket, AA makes it impossible to see if the ticket is refundable or not. As was mentioned on this thread, you have to basically "roll the dice" and submit a refund request not knowing whether you are entitled to a refund or not. I spent two hours with several people trying to just find out what kind of ticket I had, and none of us could figure it out. I even tried to call AA with zero luck. They offered me a call back service which I opted for. Never heard back.

Sorry, but when you spend $3000.00 on two domestic First Class tickets and you get zero service, that is not a way to run an airline. Bottom line is, I cancelled and re-booked on DL regardless of the refund.


You are making this way more difficult than it needs to be and stressing yourself out for no reason.
If they rebooked you on a flight that doesn't work for you - choose a different one that does or take a refund.
As far your ticket being refundable or not - it doesn't matter in a schedule change. If your flight was changed from a non-stop to a connection, you are eligible for a refund - that is a DOT rule for every carrier.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:58 pm

Please post on topic
 
DFWandOMA
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:27 pm

DFWandOMA wrote:
I seem to remember a month ago someone posted on AA applying for EAS routes. When will we find out if those have been approved? Hoping DFW-GRB is one of them.


Any update on EAS routes that AA applied for this spring?
 
910A
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American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:43 pm

American is suspending Sydney from the end of August to a least the end of October..

American Airlines will drop its long-standing flights between Los Angeles and Sydney from the end of August until at least the end of October.

The move effectively sees the Qantas partner airline pull out of Australian skies, given that LAX-Sydney was American's only route 'down under'.


https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 62P6rl54YM
 
airzona11
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Re: American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:47 pm

How long-standing was this route?
 
Delta28L
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Re: American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:52 pm

Makes sense Australia keeps their borders closed.
 
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RWA380
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Re: American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:56 pm

910A wrote:
American is suspending Sydney from the end of August to a least the end of October..

American Airlines will drop its long-standing flights between Los Angeles and Sydney from the end of August until at least the end of October.

The move effectively sees the Qantas partner airline pull out of Australian skies, given that LAX-Sydney was American's only route 'down under'.


https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 62P6rl54YM


But AKL is still being flown AA, I'd imagine? A route like LAX-SYD has too many carriers already. QF is the only carrier that needs to fly that route for AA. AA has had their code on QF flight, a very long time. Isn't the AA/QF tie-up revenue shared & metal neutral?
 
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CostaDelSol90
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Re: American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:59 pm

RWA380 wrote:
910A wrote:
American is suspending Sydney from the end of August to a least the end of October..

American Airlines will drop its long-standing flights between Los Angeles and Sydney from the end of August until at least the end of October.

The move effectively sees the Qantas partner airline pull out of Australian skies, given that LAX-Sydney was American's only route 'down under'.


https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 62P6rl54YM


But AKL is still being flown AA, I'd imagine? A route like LAX-SYD has too many carriers already. QF is the only carrier that needs to fly that route for AA. AA has had their code on QF flight, a very long time. Isn't the AA/QF tie-up revenue shared?


Except that Qantas isn’t flying that route at the moment…

Normally this route has QF, VA, DL and UA. With considerable transfer also occurring on NZ, and moderate transfer on FJ and believe it or not CZ. This has everything to do with borders remaining closed and nothing to do with latent demand.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:21 pm

RWA380 wrote:
910A wrote:
American is suspending Sydney from the end of August to a least the end of October..

American Airlines will drop its long-standing flights between Los Angeles and Sydney from the end of August until at least the end of October.

The move effectively sees the Qantas partner airline pull out of Australian skies, given that LAX-Sydney was American's only route 'down under'.


https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 62P6rl54YM


But AKL is still being flown AA, I'd imagine? A route like LAX-SYD has too many carriers already. QF is the only carrier that needs to fly that route for AA. AA has had their code on QF flight, a very long time. Isn't the AA/QF tie-up revenue shared & metal neutral?


AA hasn’t flown to AKL since March 2020.

QF/ AA is a JBA. So revenue shared, as was DL/VA plus UA so really was 3 on the route but it makes sense for AA to fly it so QF can fly elsewhere rather than 2x SYD-LAX.
 
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Polot
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Re: American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:23 pm

I don’t know why this is getting so much attention. With Australia’s borders almost completely closed there is currently no traffic on this route. Flight restart will continue to be constantly pushed back until borders open again. As more international flights are opening up (whether filled with passengers or not) and supply chains adjusted cargo only flights are not as lucrative as they once were.
 
N983AN
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Re: American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:30 pm

airzona11 wrote:
How long-standing was this route?


Began as a daily 77W 12/17/2015
 
dcajet
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:50 pm

American suspends Sydney service until at least November.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... -australia
 
jayunited
Posts: 3608
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:08 pm

Polot wrote:
I don’t know why this is getting so much attention. With Australia’s borders almost completely closed there is currently no traffic on this route. Flight restart will continue to be constantly pushed back until borders open again. As more international flights are opening up (whether filled with passengers or not) and supply chains adjusted cargo only flights are not as lucrative as they once were.


There was no traffic on the route in November of 2020 when American resumed the route and with AA, DL and UA being the only carriers serving US-SYD-US routes along with a small number of cargo airlines, cargo rates to/from the US remain a bit higher than what we are now seeing to/from Europe where rates have dropped dramatically as more international flights resume.

What makes this interesting is AA is saying this latest suspension will last only until November of 2021 but some in Australia's government have already stated their borders will remain closed for the remainder of of 2021 and into 2022. In fact Reuters is reporting Australia is saying they will not reopen their border to the broader international community which includes the United States until at least the middle of 2022.
https://www.frommers.com/blogs/arthur-f ... until-2022
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-paci ... 021-05-16/

If we are to believe your point of view, why then is American planning on resuming their flight in November of 2021 when traffic on the route will still be where it is today because Australia has no plans on reopening this year?
 
alasizon
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:11 pm

DFWandOMA wrote:
DFWandOMA wrote:
I seem to remember a month ago someone posted on AA applying for EAS routes. When will we find out if those have been approved? Hoping DFW-GRB is one of them.


Any update on EAS routes that AA applied for this spring?


It was SCASD, AA didn't apply for anything, rather airports apply for funds to support new service with specific targets in mind that they would like to recruit.

SCASD hasn't been awarded yet.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 12428
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:15 pm

jayunited wrote:
If we are to believe your point of view, why then is American planning on resuming their flight in November of 2021 when traffic on the route will still be where it is today because Australia has no plans on reopening this year?

Due to Covid US airlines frequently currently don’t even have their domestic schedules firmed out that far in advance, let alone their international ones. At the end of the day AA has no clue when Australia will open up, and is not canceling all the way out into next year in case Australia unexpectedly opens up or eases for the (southern) summer season. As November nears and they have a better understanding on what things will look like we will see if they actually resume then or push back start.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4924
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:17 pm

Delta28L wrote:
Makes sense Australia keeps their borders closed.


Not surprising given the situation and inbound arrivals to Australia and limits there. AA re launched SYD on December 18th 2015. It started with a 77W and then switched to a 789. It last flew to Australia in 1992 prior to 2015.
 
bigb
Posts: 1513
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:23 pm

jayunited wrote:
Polot wrote:
I don’t know why this is getting so much attention. With Australia’s borders almost completely closed there is currently no traffic on this route. Flight restart will continue to be constantly pushed back until borders open again. As more international flights are opening up (whether filled with passengers or not) and supply chains adjusted cargo only flights are not as lucrative as they once were.


There was no traffic on the route in November of 2020 when American resumed the route and with AA, DL and UA being the only carriers serving US-SYD-US routes along with a small number of cargo airlines, cargo rates to/from the US remain a bit higher than what we are now seeing to/from Europe where rates have dropped dramatically as more international flights resume.

What makes this interesting is AA is saying this latest suspension will last only until November of 2021 but some in Australia's government have already stated their borders will remain closed for the remainder of of 2021 and into 2022. In fact Reuters is reporting Australia is saying they will not reopen their border to the broader international community which includes the United States until at least the middle of 2022.
https://www.frommers.com/blogs/arthur-f ... until-2022
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-paci ... 021-05-16/

If we are to believe your point of view, why then is American planning on resuming their flight in November of 2021 when traffic on the route will still be where it is today because Australia has no plans on reopening this year?


AA isn’t going to fly the route long with the COVID restrictions of inbound travelers going into Sydney that aren’t Aussie restrictions. Shoot, crews themselves undergo strict quarantine as well upon entry (police escort from aircraft to hotel room).
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4924
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:24 pm

The suspension of AA's LAX-SYD means that for the duration, QF/OneWorld has no service between the US and Australia, right?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8113
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:34 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
The suspension of AA's LAX-SYD means that for the duration, QF/OneWorld has no service between the US and Australia, right?


QF have been running a few BNE/MEL-LAX services, not sure if they are repatriation or not? QF haven’t been running any pax flights anywhere other than NZ and some repatriation flights elsewhere
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8997
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

Re: American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:15 pm

Australia has halved the cap on arrivals. 6,000 to 3,000 per week. Interesting they’re shooting for zero Covid. Wonder if it’s worth the effort. Covid will be with us forever after all. Will they keep the borders closed forever?
 
ABEguy
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:16 pm

Loads are abysmal, and we’re quickly approaching two years of COVID lockdowns. Not surprised they’re pulling the plug, how much longer can you waste money? Quick load check and it seems the average load going to SYD is about 21. Coming back is slightly higher. Unsustainable.
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 302
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:41 am

Re: American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:18 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
The suspension of AA's LAX-SYD means that for the duration, QF/OneWorld has no service between the US and Australia, right?


QF have been running a few BNE/MEL-LAX services, not sure if they are repatriation or not? QF haven’t been running any pax flights anywhere other than NZ and some repatriation flights elsewhere

The LAX/HNL/NRT/SIN/HKG/SGN/TBU flights are cargo flights. Besides scheduled NZ flights the recent repat flights have come from LHR/FRA/IST/DEL/MAA/JNB/YVR. They did a couple from WUH using 747's last year.

QF have also done charters like taking the Australian cricket team to UVF and troops to COS and FAI.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 581
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: American suspends Sydney

Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:48 pm

AA averaging 21 passengers a day—wow! Do we think DL and UA are that low as well?
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: American suspends Sydney

Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:02 am

cedarjet wrote:
Australia has halved the cap on arrivals. 6,000 to 3,000 per week. Interesting they’re shooting for zero Covid. Wonder if it’s worth the effort. Covid will be with us forever after all. Will they keep the borders closed forever?


It is something that will have to be examined continually. I think it's reasonable to aim for no community transmission until you hit vaccine coverage that provides basic herd immunity. Then again I'm also in NZ so have a different point of view on this thing. Hell, even getting a covid test in 15 mins because I had flu like symptoms.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4924
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American suspends Sydney

Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:32 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
The suspension of AA's LAX-SYD means that for the duration, QF/OneWorld has no service between the US and Australia, right?


QF have been running a few BNE/MEL-LAX services, not sure if they are repatriation or not? QF haven’t been running any pax flights anywhere other than NZ and some repatriation flights elsewhere


I believe anything QF operates into LAX is cargo or maintenance but no pax.
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 8791
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: American suspends Sydney

Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:06 am

cedarjet wrote:
Australia has halved the cap on arrivals. 6,000 to 3,000 per week. Interesting they’re shooting for zero Covid. Wonder if it’s worth the effort. Covid will be with us forever after all. Will they keep the borders closed forever?


With the current vaccination rates being so low (lowest in the OECD) Australia doesn’t have a choice at the moment. Immunity is too low and the Delta variant is highly contagious. Without being closed, Australia could quickly look like the UK or US last year. The current aim is to have everyone vaccinated by the end of the year, hence talk of opening up more in the first half of 2022.
 
UA748i
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 11:53 pm

Re: American suspends Sydney

Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:15 am

No end in sight. A logical move.

The way I see it, the world, as we know it, ended in March of 2020.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5250
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: American suspends Sydney

Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:24 am

They have too..... this is a very expensive route and there's no demand. The borders don't look to open anytime soon and even after they do demand will be slow to come back. They can restart when demand is there to have a shot at breaking even.....and that could be 2022
 
acavpics
Posts: 607
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:54 am

Re: American suspends Sydney

Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:42 am

I think the biggest factor here is Australia's sluggish vaccination pace. My cousin living in Melbourne, who is in her 30's, told me that she will be eligible for the vaccine "some time by the end of 2021." At that rate, I don't expect to see many international flights to the country return until well into 2022.

Pick up the pace Aussies!
 
bigb
Posts: 1513
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: American suspends Sydney

Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:54 am

gwrudolph wrote:
AA averaging 21 passengers a day—wow! Do we think DL and UA are that low as well?


Yes, I am certain UA and DL are seeing similar loads.
 
Pi7472000
Posts: 354
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: American suspends Sydney

Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:05 am

This makes sense. American does not have a long history serving Australia with its own metal. Will be more efficient to have their partner Qantas serve the route when borders do reopen. Borders could be closed until 2023 with slow vaccination and variants in the U.S. Demand could be diminished for years.
 
dcajet
Posts: 5107
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American suspends Sydney

Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:43 am

acavpics wrote:
I think the biggest factor here is Australia's sluggish vaccination pace. My cousin living in Melbourne, who is in her 30's, told me that she will be eligible for the vaccine "some time by the end of 2021." At that rate, I don't expect to see many international flights to the country return until well into 2022.

Pick up the pace Aussies!


I can't understand why that is the case. Other less developed countries or less affluent ones are miles ahead of Australia when it comes to COVID vaccinations.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8113
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: American suspends Sydney

Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:58 am

dcajet wrote:
acavpics wrote:
I think the biggest factor here is Australia's sluggish vaccination pace. My cousin living in Melbourne, who is in her 30's, told me that she will be eligible for the vaccine "some time by the end of 2021." At that rate, I don't expect to see many international flights to the country return until well into 2022.

Pick up the pace Aussies!


I can't understand why that is the case. Other less developed countries or less affluent ones are miles ahead of Australia when it comes to COVID vaccinations.


The reality is Australia and NZ got off lightly overall and other less developed countries are more in need.

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