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NYCVIE
Topic Author
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:01 pm

What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:52 pm

A favorite past time of mine is scrolling through Flightaware to see different flights at different airports. I've noticed that B6 notably seems to have an on time performance issue. I know this isn't new and it's been discussed on here before but I'm wondering if there's something specific at play given that it's not unusual to see B6 flights that are 2/3 even 4 hours late these days. It seems there are a lot of occasions where even with no weather the first flight of an aircraft's day departs late, messing up the rest of the day's flights. Are they flying too ambitious of a schedule?

Also, this is in no way intending to drag B6 - I'm a fan of their's and have flown on them 3 times in the past month (all on time or even early). Just think it's an interesting discussion!
 
AAPramugari14
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:35 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:00 pm

I think it is mostly the way their planes are scheduled. They don’t pad enough time for the unexpected issues. I’ve also noticed a lack of spare aircraft . The pandemic has exasperated the issue. Mix that in with a shortage of crewmembers and you have a recipe for disaster.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1992
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:09 pm

It’s 3 things in my opinion;

1. Scheduling - Not enough five built into the schedule
2. Short staffing issues due to the pandemic
3. North East weather
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4357
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:13 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
It’s 3 things in my opinion;

1. Scheduling - Not enough five built into the schedule
2. Short staffing issues due to the pandemic
3. North East weather


4. Trying to fit more flights into an already full and down one runway EWR is sending their timekeeping to hell.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4357
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:24 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
It’s 3 things in my opinion;

1. Scheduling - Not enough five built into the schedule
2. Short staffing issues due to the pandemic
3. North East weather


4. Trying to fit more flights into an already full and down one runway EWR is sending their timekeeping to hell.


Example - All 4 EWR-SDQ flights have a 0% on-time record. I have never seen a flight with a 0% OTP before - much less four.
 
transportgeek
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:12 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:55 pm

I’ve had friends that were supposed to fly them from Seattle to NY and Boston over the past couple months. On all three occasions jetblue cancelled their flights with no explanation, one of which was after a 6 hour rolling delay. It must be staffing/equipment shortages because weather was not a problem on either end or en route
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10182
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:06 am

usflyer msp wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
It’s 3 things in my opinion;

1. Scheduling - Not enough five built into the schedule
2. Short staffing issues due to the pandemic
3. North East weather


4. Trying to fit more flights into an already full and down one runway EWR is sending their timekeeping to hell.


What fraction of B6' flights starts or ends at EWR?

DOT reports show B6 on-time performance was below avg in Mar/Apr/May, even before the EWR runway closure.

https://www.transportation.gov/individu ... ports-2021
 
NYCVIE
Topic Author
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:01 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:37 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
It’s 3 things in my opinion;

1. Scheduling - Not enough five built into the schedule
2. Short staffing issues due to the pandemic
3. North East weather


4. Trying to fit more flights into an already full and down one runway EWR is sending their timekeeping to hell.


What fraction of B6' flights starts or ends at EWR?

DOT reports show B6 on-time performance was below avg in Mar/Apr/May, even before the EWR runway closure.

https://www.transportation.gov/individu ... ports-2021


EWR looks particularly nasty. Today's B6 2695 EWR-MIA departed over 2.5 hours late even though the inbound arrived on time. Today's EWR-MBJ is over SEVEN hours late. Yesterday's B6 2606 ATL-EWR ended up departing this morning, over FOURTEEN hours late.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4881
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:48 am

JetBlue is consistently ranks at the bottom when it comes to OTP and that's nothing new. Pre-pandemic, it was scheduling turnarounds with little padding. Currently, it is probably staffing issues. Northeast weather isn't a huge factor today, but it has been the last few weeks, but that is also nothing new. Newark Airport is undergoing runway construction and at the best of times, is a challenging place to operate even with blue skies and no wind. B6 has expanded at EWR rapidly and is feeling the pain from EWR's traditional constraints.

Have flown B6 many times between JFK and FLL, SJU, BUR, LAX, MCO, and LGB and flights were never on time. Delays as short as 30-35 minutes and longer to 2+ hours on some occasions, which is why I generally avoid them. Lovely on board service, nice planes, and T5 is overall pretty sweet, but operationally, B6 is a mess.

These aren't teething problems. B6 has been around for 21 years.
Last edited by ContinentalEWR on Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4881
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:49 am

And here's a good rundown of what is currently making EWR a mess:

https://thepointsguy.com/news/newark-ai ... nway-mess/
 
dstblj52
Posts: 744
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:04 am

Jetblue has consistently chosen to sacrifice on-time performance to keep costs lower its a strategic decision with upsides and downsides
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 576
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:22 am

Well, since the success or failure of the operation generally falls on the chief operating officer, perhaps a look at the COO’s resume and operational background and experience is in order.

Education: Sociology degree. Masters in international relations. Law degree. Work experience: lawyer for a couple firms, then lawyer for JetBlue, then EVP chief people officer, then EVP customer experience, then President/COO. Zero operations experience. Ever. Perhaps she’s smart and a nice person and all that…I am sure she is. But, that is not the normal resume for a major airline COO. She wasn’t in the seat for the summer of 2017 which was also a colossal disaster, so I certainly can’t blame her for all of B6’s past OTP issues…and there is more to it than one person. And the rest of the industry is also having issues. But, she certainly hasn’t turned things around for the better and it isn’t her first summer at this point.

In what I believe was her first email to the company after assuming the role, in the middle of the operation melting down, I don’t think (iirc) she discussed the operation at all, or her plan to fix it…but rather her focus as a female major airline COO on hiring more diversity (specifically more women). That’s a great endeavor…but maybe leave that to the chief diversity officer or something and focus on the operation and the company’s performance? There’s a fire…you’re appointed chief fireman for this ongoing fire, and you put the ongoing fire on the back burner while you worry about the important stuff, like making sure there will be more female firemen on staff. That’s what it felt like to employees anyway who bore the brunt of the fire’s effects, both from their own resultant messed up and fatiguing schedules as well as dealing with all the unhappy delayed customers.

Below is an article that came out shortly after she took the reins that kind of discusses some of the stuff mentioned above, including the terrible OTP at the time. And it’s not from some disgruntled employee’s perspective either. It’s a skift article they wrote I think after an interview she did with them. Worth a read. Paints a good picture of pre-covid times and reinforces that these issues today aren’t just a result of covid/covid recovery, as much as that’s used as an excuse today. https://skift.com/2018/07/23/jetblues-f ... r-profits/

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/coo.asp
In that link above it discusses the 7 typical types of COOs…there’s only one that makes sense imo: “The heir apparent, who becomes the COO to learn from the CEO, in order to ultimately assume the CEO position.” A lot of people think she is the chosen one, biding time in another grooming role, waiting for her “first female US major airline CEO” title.

I wish her and the rest of the company the best trying to steer the ship back on course. She seems competent enough when she speaks. Perhaps she’s the right person for the job and has gained enough experience by now to start righting the ship. There’s some new scheduling software coming on line in a few years. Maybe that will help. But imo it is going to take some more staffing, significant morale improvement, and incentivizing the various teams that make up jetblue to all row in the same direction. Haven’t seen it in the last 3 years. Or really any time before that. But maybe something will change soon.

Interestingly, their operational meltdowns got worse when they effectively took everyone’s profit sharing away in 2017 to help pay for the pilot contract. Coincidence maybe. But it’s not just the pilots whose morale is in the toilet. Flight attendants, schedulers, gate agents, middle management, etc are all feeling it. A higher than normal level of senior leaders have also left in the last few months…some were planned, some were unplanned and fairly abrupt. I hope things get better soon.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
 
Moosefire
Posts: 191
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:47 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:30 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
Well, since the success or failure of the operation generally falls on the chief operating officer, perhaps a look at the COO’s resume and operational background and experience is in order.

Education: Sociology degree. Masters in international relations. Law degree. Work experience: lawyer for a couple firms, then lawyer for JetBlue, then EVP chief people officer, then EVP customer experience, then President/COO. Zero operations experience. Ever. Perhaps she’s smart and a nice person and all that…I am sure she is. But, that is not the normal resume for a major airline COO. She wasn’t in the seat for the summer of 2017 which was also a colossal disaster, so I certainly can’t blame her for all of B6’s past OTP issues…and there is more to it than one person. And the rest of the industry is also having issues. But, she certainly hasn’t turned things around for the better and it isn’t her first summer at this point.

In what I believe was her first email to the company after assuming the role, in the middle of the operation melting down, I don’t think (iirc) she discussed the operation at all, or her plan to fix it…but rather her focus as a female major airline COO on hiring more diversity (specifically more women). That’s a great endeavor…but maybe leave that to the chief diversity officer or something and focus on the operation and the company’s performance? There’s a fire…you’re appointed chief fireman for this ongoing fire, and you put the ongoing fire on the back burner while you worry about the important stuff, like making sure there will be more female firemen on staff. That’s what it felt like to employees anyway who bore the brunt of the fire’s effects, both from their own resultant messed up and fatiguing schedules as well as dealing with all the unhappy delayed customers.

Below is an article that came out shortly after she took the reins that kind of discusses some of the stuff mentioned above, including the terrible OTP at the time. And it’s not from some disgruntled employee’s perspective either. It’s a skift article they wrote I think after an interview she did with them. Worth a read. Paints a good picture of pre-covid times and reinforces that these issues today aren’t just a result of covid/covid recovery, as much as that’s used as an excuse today. https://skift.com/2018/07/23/jetblues-f ... r-profits/

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/coo.asp
In that link above it discusses the 7 typical types of COOs…there’s only one that makes sense imo: “The heir apparent, who becomes the COO to learn from the CEO, in order to ultimately assume the CEO position.” A lot of people think she is the chosen one, biding time in another grooming role, waiting for her “first female US major airline CEO” title.

I wish her and the rest of the company the best trying to steer the ship back on course. She seems competent enough when she speaks. Perhaps she’s the right person for the job and has gained enough experience by now to start righting the ship. There’s some new scheduling software coming on line in a few years. Maybe that will help. But imo it is going to take some more staffing, significant morale improvement, and incentivizing the various teams that make up jetblue to all row in the same direction. Haven’t seen it in the last 3 years. Or really any time before that. But maybe something will change soon.

Interestingly, their operational meltdowns got worse when they effectively took everyone’s profit sharing away in 2017 to help pay for the pilot contract. Coincidence maybe. But it’s not just the pilots whose morale is in the toilet. Flight attendants, schedulers, gate agents, middle management, etc are all feeling it. A higher than normal level of senior leaders have also left in the last few months…some were planned, some were unplanned and fairly abrupt. I hope things get better soon.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.


Thanks for sharing some context. I just assumed she came from the ops/sales side
 
Italianflyer
Posts: 764
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:06 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:02 am

Compelling analysis @ JoseSalazar. I definitely sense that you are speaking from a perspective inside the belly of the beast.
No question and she is bright and capable in a soft leadership role. Hopefully tigers can change their spots.
Back at NWA I worked for a woman named Suzanne Boda. Very bright with a fantastic personality....but we learned (quickly) that you dont dare to present challenge solutions that without a 360 degree up and downsides. She wanted CBAs to be within +/- $100.
Still a pleasant person and all about accountability.
After NWA she went to US and turned an operational mess in PHL into a model for best practices.

For the sake of the Blues I hope that she grows into the role. She certainly has the pedigree for it.
 
FlyEndeavorAir
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat May 15, 2021 10:49 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:19 am

B6 (and I'm assuming all the other LCC's and ULCC's, this is not just them) is great when everything operates according to plan, but has no backup (planes, crews, etc) when things go wrong during IRROPs. Case in point just this month my parents B6 flight from BDL-MCO was delayed by about 10 hours because the aircraft operating it was late coming from LAX and that was that. At HPN over the past couple weeks there was a flight to MCO severely delayed due to a maintenance issue and another to TPA that was delayed because they had to bus in a crew from JFK. They operate their schedule extremely tightly with no room for error, in an industry where the unexpected will happen everyday.

As a comparison on one of my AA CLT to BDL flights the inbound aircraft supposed to operate this flight was delayed for some reason so they instead swapped the tail and we had a very minimal delay.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 6576
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Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:33 am

transportgeek wrote:
I’ve had friends that were supposed to fly them from Seattle to NY and Boston over the past couple months. On all three occasions jetblue cancelled their flights with no explanation, one of which was after a 6 hour rolling delay. It must be staffing/equipment shortages because weather was not a problem on either end or en route


EWR SEA live cancelled tonight. No crew
 
FlapOperator
Posts: 409
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:57 am

Yeah, from my outsider perspective, but talking with a bunch of B6 guys, there is a real leadership gap, its been an enduring issue, and its frankly not getting better. Ultimately, well run airlines are about a 1000 little things from staffing to network analysis to tech ops to marketing. Its a job for the enthusiast who enjoys the industry, and it favors the individual that has experience in both good organizations and bad.

Coming from a legal background might be tremendously valuable for certain regulatory compliance or contract elements (though lawyers would say there are specialists for both of those things) but reality is very little in her education or job experience gets into the nuts and bolts of making an operation go.

If you look at the COO of Frontier, he was the VP of Flight Ops and Maintenance at ExpressJet for 13 years, then three years at Volaris.

The COO of Spirit started out as a maintenance tech at Northwest on the Detroit ramp, if I recall correctly.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15363
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:39 pm

FlyEndeavorAir wrote:
B6 (and I'm assuming all the other LCC's and ULCC's, this is not just them) is great when everything operates according to plan, but has no backup (planes, crews, etc) when things go wrong during IRROPs. Case in point just this month my parents B6 flight from BDL-MCO was delayed by about 10 hours because the aircraft operating it was late coming from LAX and that was that. At HPN over the past couple weeks there was a flight to MCO severely delayed due to a maintenance issue and another to TPA that was delayed because they had to bus in a crew from JFK. They operate their schedule extremely tightly with no room for error, in an industry where the unexpected will happen everyday.

As a comparison on one of my AA CLT to BDL flights the inbound aircraft supposed to operate this flight was delayed for some reason so they instead swapped the tail and we had a very minimal delay.


Sorry, you've totally lost me. Of course it's easier to source a spare aircraft or crew at a giant hub like CLT than at a small outstation like BDL or HPN. That's neither odd nor unique to AA or B6.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1992
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:09 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
It’s 3 things in my opinion;

1. Scheduling - Not enough five built into the schedule
2. Short staffing issues due to the pandemic
3. North East weather


4. Trying to fit more flights into an already full and down one runway EWR is sending their timekeeping to hell.


What fraction of B6' flights starts or ends at EWR?

DOT reports show B6 on-time performance was below avg in Mar/Apr/May, even before the EWR runway closure.

https://www.transportation.gov/individu ... ports-2021


Around 13%.
 
FlyEndeavorAir
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat May 15, 2021 10:49 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:34 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
FlyEndeavorAir wrote:
B6 (and I'm assuming all the other LCC's and ULCC's, this is not just them) is great when everything operates according to plan, but has no backup (planes, crews, etc) when things go wrong during IRROPs. Case in point just this month my parents B6 flight from BDL-MCO was delayed by about 10 hours because the aircraft operating it was late coming from LAX and that was that. At HPN over the past couple weeks there was a flight to MCO severely delayed due to a maintenance issue and another to TPA that was delayed because they had to bus in a crew from JFK. They operate their schedule extremely tightly with no room for error, in an industry where the unexpected will happen everyday.

As a comparison on one of my AA CLT to BDL flights the inbound aircraft supposed to operate this flight was delayed for some reason so they instead swapped the tail and we had a very minimal delay.


Sorry, you've totally lost me. Of course it's easier to source a spare aircraft or crew at a giant hub like CLT than at a small outstation like BDL or HPN. That's neither odd nor unique to AA or B6.


You've also missed the point because it's not what you wanted to hear. Guess I shouldn't take you seriously.

B6 can't even crew a flight out of EWR as noted a post or two above yours.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4357
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:44 pm

FlyEndeavorAir wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
FlyEndeavorAir wrote:
B6 (and I'm assuming all the other LCC's and ULCC's, this is not just them) is great when everything operates according to plan, but has no backup (planes, crews, etc) when things go wrong during IRROPs. Case in point just this month my parents B6 flight from BDL-MCO was delayed by about 10 hours because the aircraft operating it was late coming from LAX and that was that. At HPN over the past couple weeks there was a flight to MCO severely delayed due to a maintenance issue and another to TPA that was delayed because they had to bus in a crew from JFK. They operate their schedule extremely tightly with no room for error, in an industry where the unexpected will happen everyday.

As a comparison on one of my AA CLT to BDL flights the inbound aircraft supposed to operate this flight was delayed for some reason so they instead swapped the tail and we had a very minimal delay.


Sorry, you've totally lost me. Of course it's easier to source a spare aircraft or crew at a giant hub like CLT than at a small outstation like BDL or HPN. That's neither odd nor unique to AA or B6.


You've also missed the point because it's not what you wanted to hear. Guess I shouldn't take you seriously.

B6 can't even crew a flight out of EWR as noted a post or two above yours.


I agree. Why couldn't B6 swap the tail at LAX? Do they not have spares at their focus city? A 10 hour delay on a domestic flight is unacceptable -it seems like B6 is running their fleet so hard that once delays occur there is no buffer time to catch up so the delays just cascade for days.
 
FlyEndeavorAir
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat May 15, 2021 10:49 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:45 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
FlyEndeavorAir wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

Sorry, you've totally lost me. Of course it's easier to source a spare aircraft or crew at a giant hub like CLT than at a small outstation like BDL or HPN. That's neither odd nor unique to AA or B6.


You've also missed the point because it's not what you wanted to hear. Guess I shouldn't take you seriously.

B6 can't even crew a flight out of EWR as noted a post or two above yours.


I agree. Why couldn't B6 swap the tail at LAX? Do they not have spares at their focus city? A 10 hour delay on a domestic flight is unacceptable -it seems like B6 is running their fleet so hard that once delays occur there is no buffer time to catch up so the delays just cascade for days.


Yup, it's a mess.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7595
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:47 pm

JoseSalazar wrote:
In what I believe was her first email to the company after assuming the role, in the middle of the operation melting down, I don’t think (iirc) she discussed the operation at all, or her plan to fix it…


If there is no real plan in place to fix the key problem(s) facing the company, simply redefine the problem. This way, she can claim success (and get her bonus for meeting her metrics) without having to do the hard work of fixing the operation.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6713
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:56 pm

ScottB wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
In what I believe was her first email to the company after assuming the role, in the middle of the operation melting down, I don’t think (iirc) she discussed the operation at all, or her plan to fix it…


If there is no real plan in place to fix the key problem(s) facing the company, simply redefine the problem. This way, she can claim success (and get her bonus for meeting her metrics) without having to do the hard work of fixing the operation.


On the other hand, it's quite clear that she is responsible for operational side of things. The route planners are doing pretty well if you look at their Q3 revenue projects. So if there is a fall person, she will be it.

I'd imagine AA at some point will be hammering B6 for their continued operational issues.
 
AA94
Posts: 786
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:37 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:56 pm

JetBlue makes the strategic decision to schedule its fleet to the brink, which increases ASMs and thus decreases costs on paper. The converse of this is that there's very little room for delay, which is inevitable when your network is overwhelmingly Northeast and Florida. JetBlue management makes it seem like this is simply the cost of doing business in congested markets -- which is true to a certain extent -- but they also don't make any effort to mitigate those circumstances as noted above.

There's also a distinct lack of airline ops experience, not only at the C-level but also in middle management. Many VPs/Directors have been promoted from within and have *only* worked at JetBlue, which is ostensibly good for culture, but not so good from an operational perspective because it desensitizes you to how poor the operation truly is. While I'm not suggesting that JetBlue will ever be a network carrier or follow network carrier practices, there's a certain discipline required to make operational decisions at network airlines that very few people at JetBlue have.

Lots of people think Neeleman is an airline genius. I think he's a great airline founder and investor, but JetBlue was never built to be as large or successful as it is. The foundation is poor. Many JetBlue founding employees still have the small carrier mindset, and actively resist change that would help shore up the ops side.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15363
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:26 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
FlyEndeavorAir wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

Sorry, you've totally lost me. Of course it's easier to source a spare aircraft or crew at a giant hub like CLT than at a small outstation like BDL or HPN. That's neither odd nor unique to AA or B6.


You've also missed the point because it's not what you wanted to hear. Guess I shouldn't take you seriously.

B6 can't even crew a flight out of EWR as noted a post or two above yours.


I agree. Why couldn't B6 swap the tail at LAX? Do they not have spares at their focus city? A 10 hour delay on a domestic flight is unacceptable -it seems like B6 is running their fleet so hard that once delays occur there is no buffer time to catch up so the delays just cascade for days.


I'm not really a B6 apologist or fanboy (I live in Nashville; I have never really had the opportunity to fly them given their limited presence here) but it's hard for me to swallow the blanket "long delays are never acceptable" statement short of deep knowledge or information about how the delay got that long. Maybe the spare had a maintenance issue too. Maybe the crew on reserve summoned to operate the rescue flight got in a wreck on the way to the airport. Stuff happens.
 
Buck90
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:13 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:29 pm

It has been made very clear to us from said COO the airline is built for a blue sky day. So if everything is fine we are good to go. Now how often is that the case? They also refuse to buffer more time because that is expensive and passengers don’t mind being late they just want to get there (their words). Add on top of that they have always relied on the crews to basically make up for it with great service. But that is hard to do when they don’t cater half the planes so we don’t even have water and the crews are exhausted. The FAs have been beat down with many quitting and an all out hatred for FA leadership who keeps changing rules to make up for short staffing. Such things as making FAs pay for their own transportation to EWR if called out on a reserve assignment. I’m am not an FA but I have never seen so many of the good ones so mad.

Basically they want to run an airline without spending money and look to the employees to hold it together without any support or tools. Heck our people are still on hold for hours just to talk to crew scheduling, we even got an email not to call because they were super busy.

The company is in a bad spot, and the ELT seems completely oblivious all they talk about is London, but what good is that when everything else is a mess. Jetblue is always out there swinging for a home run, London, mint, flyfi because it’s fun and exciting. But what they won’t do is take the time to work on the boring fundamentals like how to run bases or bunt (to use baseball as an analogy) but those fundamentals are what win the game.

They need to totally clean house on the leadership and operational side but I doubt that will happen.

It’s sad, we still want the company to be successful but many doubt that the ELT does as well.
 
Buck90
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:13 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:30 pm

ScottB wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
In what I believe was her first email to the company after assuming the role, in the middle of the operation melting down, I don’t think (iirc) she discussed the operation at all, or her plan to fix it…


If there is no real plan in place to fix the key problem(s) facing the company, simply redefine the problem. This way, she can claim success (and get her bonus for meeting her metrics) without having to do the hard work of fixing the operation.



Correct that’s why they changed from caring about OTP to caring about completion factor.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7595
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:32 pm

tphuang wrote:
On the other hand, it's quite clear that she is responsible for operational side of things. The route planners are doing pretty well if you look at their Q3 revenue projects. So if there is a fall person, she will be it.

I'd imagine AA at some point will be hammering B6 for their continued operational issues.


It doesn't seem like folks are necessarily criticizing the choice of routes for chasing revenue, but rather the company's inability to execute the schedule in a timely fashion. Eventually an unreliable schedule chases away the higher-value customers which B6 is apparently trying to attract.
 
airlinepeanuts
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:51 pm

Their Northeast hubs of NYC and BOS are what's killing them. Even the planes that do transcons are TURNS from these cities. Jetblue needs a viable West Coast hub, although even when they had LGB a lot of the Transcons would still do turns from NY or BOS. I think Jeblue needs to bite the bullet on crew and other associated costs and not have the planes turn from the east coast on transcons.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10182
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:55 pm

tphuang wrote:
I'd imagine AA at some point will be hammering B6 for their continued operational issues.


Hah hah. That's funny. As they say, 'The pot calling the kettle black.' AA is no paragon of operational excellence. Anybody can review monthly DOT reports for on-time, IDB, baggage mishandling, and flight cancellations. Do it for AA mainline or with express partners included. Go back five months or fifty.

B6 needs to worry about fixing itself. Whether that's more spares, more reserve pilots and FAs, more ground staff, rescheduling to miss peak hours, schedule padding - whatever.

airlinepeanuts wrote:
Their Northeast hubs of NYC and BOS are what's killing them.


Nope. That is a fiction readily put down by DOT data, which also shows on-time by carrier by major airport. AA and DL are routinely better than B6 at both BOS and JFK.
 
airlinepeanuts
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:03 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:

airlinepeanuts wrote:
Their Northeast hubs of NYC and BOS are what's killing them.


Nope. That is a fiction readily put down by DOT data, which also shows on-time by carrier by major airport. AA and DL are routinely better than B6 at both BOS and JFK.


Yep. I worked at Jetblue at a west coast city. I've worked at AA and UA at EWR. They don't turn a flight like OAK or SEA from the east coast, that's why they're better there. For instance, Jetblue will run JFK-SEA-JFK on the same plane same crew, the other's don't do that. They'll either re-crew or have a different plane at OAK or SEA.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6713
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:13 pm

ScottB wrote:
tphuang wrote:
On the other hand, it's quite clear that she is responsible for operational side of things. The route planners are doing pretty well if you look at their Q3 revenue projects. So if there is a fall person, she will be it.

I'd imagine AA at some point will be hammering B6 for their continued operational issues.


It doesn't seem like folks are necessarily criticizing the choice of routes for chasing revenue, but rather the company's inability to execute the schedule in a timely fashion. Eventually an unreliable schedule chases away the higher-value customers which B6 is apparently trying to attract.


It's a difficult problem they are facing. The revenue front is doing great compared to competitors. The cost side is way out of control.

So if they are already having cost control issues, how do they get persuaded to take actions which may increase even more cost with the hope of attracting higher yielding passengers?

Everything about NEA is generating more revenue with associated cost pressures.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7595
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:24 pm

tphuang wrote:
It's a difficult problem they are facing. The revenue front is doing great compared to competitors. The cost side is way out of control.

So if they are already having cost control issues, how do they get persuaded to take actions which may increase even more cost with the hope of attracting higher yielding passengers?


Solving difficult problems is presumably why one person is qualified to be CEO/COO/CFO/etc. over others. Or at the very least, being able to find the correct people to accomplish those tasks for you.

The issue is not necessarily attracting higher-yielding passengers -- it may be keeping higher-yielding passengers from leaving due to the operational issues. If they can't run a reliable operation, passengers who actually value reaching their destinations on time will choose competitors.
 
evank516
Posts: 2286
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:36 pm

B6’s OTP has been a disaster for years. Back when I used them to fly to DAB rather often the flight to DAB was on time maybe twice. The turn they scheduled in DAB was 40 mins which is barely enough time to turn an A320 at an outstation that tends to have a heavy need for wheelchairs. I wasn’t sad when they axed the route because even going back to ATL connections at least I would be on time or even early.

I’m excited at the idea of them coming to MCI, but their constant delays are in the back of my mind and I’m wondering if I’ll even be able to depend on them to get back and forth between KC and home. Delta has been so great with it that even though I get a nonstop out of JFK on a full sized jet, why change back to B6 if I’m just going to be late all the time?
 
dstblj52
Posts: 744
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:07 pm

AA94 wrote:
JetBlue makes the strategic decision to schedule its fleet to the brink, which increases ASMs and thus decreases costs on paper. The converse of this is that there's very little room for delay, which is inevitable when your network is overwhelmingly Northeast and Florida. JetBlue management makes it seem like this is simply the cost of doing business in congested markets -- which is true to a certain extent -- but they also don't make any effort to mitigate those circumstances as noted above.

There's also a distinct lack of airline ops experience, not only at the C-level but also in middle management. Many VPs/Directors have been promoted from within and have *only* worked at JetBlue, which is ostensibly good for culture, but not so good from an operational perspective because it desensitizes you to how poor the operation truly is. While I'm not suggesting that JetBlue will ever be a network carrier or follow network carrier practices, there's a certain discipline required to make operational decisions at network airlines that very few people at JetBlue have.

Lots of people think Neeleman is an airline genius. I think he's a great airline founder and investor, but JetBlue was never built to be as large or successful as it is. The foundation is poor. Many JetBlue founding employees still have the small carrier mindset, and actively resist change that would help shore up the ops side.

Thats certainly part of it but at the same time with their high leisure model its unclear that its the wrong call
 
S0Y
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:25 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:13 pm

I really like B6, but I have a real hard time picking them over DL for my work travel because I just don't trust them to get me there on time. I learned this the hard way. Plenty I know are happy to pay a DL premium because of their reliability
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4357
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:56 pm

S0Y wrote:
I really like B6, but I have a real hard time picking them over DL for my work travel because I just don't trust them to get me there on time. I learned this the hard way. Plenty I know are happy to pay a DL premium because of their reliability


The proliferation of Blue Basic makes it even worse.

I needed to book a MSP-JFK flight in October and I chose Delta over JetBlue despite having AAdvantage status.

DL and B6 were the same price but B6 does not include a carry-on bag and carries a high-probability of being delayed so off to Delta I went.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4881
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:59 pm

S0Y wrote:
I really like B6, but I have a real hard time picking them over DL for my work travel because I just don't trust them to get me there on time. I learned this the hard way. Plenty I know are happy to pay a DL premium because of their reliability


Yep. Same here. As to the AA/B6 partnership, where there is overlap, I usually just fly AA. In NYC they seem to have gotten their on time performance back on track mostly, aside from weather-related issues, since the operational issues experienced early this month.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4881
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:00 pm

tphuang wrote:
ScottB wrote:
tphuang wrote:
On the other hand, it's quite clear that she is responsible for operational side of things. The route planners are doing pretty well if you look at their Q3 revenue projects. So if there is a fall person, she will be it.

I'd imagine AA at some point will be hammering B6 for their continued operational issues.


It doesn't seem like folks are necessarily criticizing the choice of routes for chasing revenue, but rather the company's inability to execute the schedule in a timely fashion. Eventually an unreliable schedule chases away the higher-value customers which B6 is apparently trying to attract.


It's a difficult problem they are facing. The revenue front is doing great compared to competitors. The cost side is way out of control.

So if they are already having cost control issues, how do they get persuaded to take actions which may increase even more cost with the hope of attracting higher yielding passengers?

Everything about NEA is generating more revenue with associated cost pressures.


If they can't get their costs under control, they'll eventually be in play (something I think will happen regardless) for a merger, but that's a significant amount of time down the road. Someone with scale will come in, take them over, ruin their product and offering, and through operational scale, apply the needed controls and framework.
 
B6BOSfan
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:11 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:33 pm

ScottB wrote:
The issue is not necessarily attracting higher-yielding passengers -- it may be keeping higher-yielding passengers from leaving due to the operational issues. If they can't run a reliable operation, passengers who actually value reaching their destinations on time will choose competitors.


This, right here. Spot on. People will not pay a premium for an experience that is no better (and perhaps worse) than the LCC. The other airlines are catching up to ways that B6 was once groundbreaking. They still own the experience in the seat -- once the plane is off the ground. They need to tighten up the operation from booking to boarding pass scanning.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6713
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:36 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
S0Y wrote:
I really like B6, but I have a real hard time picking them over DL for my work travel because I just don't trust them to get me there on time. I learned this the hard way. Plenty I know are happy to pay a DL premium because of their reliability


Yep. Same here. As to the AA/B6 partnership, where there is overlap, I usually just fly AA. In NYC they seem to have gotten their on time performance back on track mostly, aside from weather-related issues, since the operational issues experienced early this month.


The reality is during pre-COVID times, AA & B6 had about the same OTP numbers out of BOS and JFK. DL mainline was noticeably better, but DL regional was only slightly better. And probably more importantly, they do try to run better operation on mint and other major business routes than their VFR stuff which faces little competition. I'd expect things to normalize to that level unless they do a major shake-up.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

If they can't get their costs under control, they'll eventually be in play (something I think will happen regardless) for a merger, but that's a significant amount of time down the road. Someone with scale will come in, take them over, ruin their product and offering, and through operational scale, apply the needed controls and framework.


keep in mind that cost out of control version of B6 will still have significant cost advantage over the big 3. Case in point, DL's Q3 CASM-ex project is expected to go up 11 to 14% vs 2019 which is actually higher than B6's 11 to 13%. Aside from WN, any other possible takeover airline would only raise the cost of operation in their NYC base and make things tougher. At this point, AA (the most likely merger partner) would have a hard time making B6's network work at their cost level.

There are a list of things i mentioned in JetBlue thread that they probably need to do going forward to pick up higher yielding passengers. Improving their OTP by a few % is only one of them. After all, B6/AA are coordinating schedule now and they will have far and away the best schedule on a lot of routes. B6 being late a little more often than other airlines was not the main problem for people. If they can get this "seamless" customer experience working with AA and have at least comparable OTP numbers to AA on business routes, they will be fine.

As sad as it is to say, B6 actually can learn a little bit from NK. NK somehow managed to get their OTP numbers into very respectable levels while also maintaining their cost control. Someone in JetBlue leadership should eat a humble pie and learn from what NK did.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4881
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:37 pm

tphuang wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
S0Y wrote:
I really like B6, but I have a real hard time picking them over DL for my work travel because I just don't trust them to get me there on time. I learned this the hard way. Plenty I know are happy to pay a DL premium because of their reliability


Yep. Same here. As to the AA/B6 partnership, where there is overlap, I usually just fly AA. In NYC they seem to have gotten their on time performance back on track mostly, aside from weather-related issues, since the operational issues experienced early this month.


The reality is during pre-COVID times, AA & B6 had about the same OTP numbers out of BOS and JFK. DL mainline was noticeably better, but DL regional was only slightly better. And probably more importantly, they do try to run better operation on mint and other major business routes than their VFR stuff which faces little competition. I'd expect things to normalize to that level unless they do a major shake-up.

According to who's reality exactly? AA and B6 pre-COVID (and currently) have vastly different operations at JFK. B6 is much larger in terms of departures and passengers carried. AA was down to 70 or so daily departures in Q4-2019, pre-pandemic, amid slot waivers and reduced RJ flying. AA's operational performance at JFK can't quite be compared to B6. Yes, AA has taken some big delays here and there, and in Summer 2019, there was a dispute with the mechanics union impacting operations, for which AA got an injunction, but comparing AA to B6 and drawing parallels makes no sense, since their operations are so different. I also question where you get your numbers or if you're just trying to fit a narrative.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

If they can't get their costs under control, they'll eventually be in play (something I think will happen regardless) for a merger, but that's a significant amount of time down the road. Someone with scale will come in, take them over, ruin their product and offering, and through operational scale, apply the needed controls and framework.


keep in mind that cost out of control version of B6 will still have significant cost advantage over the big 3. Case in point, DL's Q3 CASM-ex project is expected to go up 11 to 14% vs 2019 which is actually higher than B6's 11 to 13%. Aside from WN, any other possible takeover airline would only raise the cost of operation in their NYC base and make things tougher. At this point, AA (the most likely merger partner) would have a hard time making B6's network work at their cost level.

There are a list of things i mentioned in JetBlue thread that they probably need to do going forward to pick up higher yielding passengers. Improving their OTP by a few % is only one of them. After all, B6/AA are coordinating schedule now and they will have far and away the best schedule on a lot of routes. B6 being late a little more often than other airlines was not the main problem for people. If they can get this "seamless" customer experience working with AA and have at least comparable OTP numbers to AA on business routes, they will be fine.

As sad as it is to say, B6 actually can learn a little bit from NK. NK somehow managed to get their OTP numbers into very respectable levels while also maintaining their cost control. Someone in JetBlue leadership should eat a humble pie and learn from what NK did.


Airline mergers in today's environment are not quite off the table, but almost. Absent some private equity vehicle, like a SPAC, it is just not happening. The industry is marginally profitable and only thanks to CARES. What would accelerate mergers is a further deterioration of the industry's finances, similar to the banking crisis in 2008 when the Fed stepped in and effectively forced mergers. If B6 merged into AA, yes, B6's cost advantages would vanish, but AA would have the scale to normalize those costs, spread them across the operation, and optimize the network and would very likely eliminate some routes and/or sell slots or trade them if they could. The numbers on OTP clearly show B6 doesn't run a clean operation and with that, will struggle with corporate contracting. A seamless experience with AA will take time, if it ever happens, as both carriers need to steer clear of any collusion. I'd also disagree that B6/AA now have the best schedules on a lot of routes. On some, that matter, yes. On others, it's not relevant really. B6 and AA without each other struggle to compete with DL (JFK+LGA) and UA (EWR). The partnership is a step in the right direction and it looks as though it is performing with some further work needed. AA, in spite of the broad perception that its suite of products don't stack up to DL and UA, is emerging as the scale of ops competitor, through the growth it undertook during COVID and its partnership with B6 and the fact that AS is in OW. All that may drive UA and DL into doing things we're not seeing now, even if they can compete with better products and the illusion of better customer service (DL, yes, UA, still a maybe, but trending).
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4881
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:39 pm

tphuang wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
S0Y wrote:
I really like B6, but I have a real hard time picking them over DL for my work travel because I just don't trust them to get me there on time. I learned this the hard way. Plenty I know are happy to pay a DL premium because of their reliability


Yep. Same here. As to the AA/B6 partnership, where there is overlap, I usually just fly AA. In NYC they seem to have gotten their on time performance back on track mostly, aside from weather-related issues, since the operational issues experienced early this month.


The reality is during pre-COVID times, AA & B6 had about the same OTP numbers out of BOS and JFK. DL mainline was noticeably better, but DL regional was only slightly better. And probably more importantly, they do try to run better operation on mint and other major business routes than their VFR stuff which faces little competition. I'd expect things to normalize to that level unless they do a major shake-up.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

If they can't get their costs under control, they'll eventually be in play (something I think will happen regardless) for a merger, but that's a significant amount of time down the road. Someone with scale will come in, take them over, ruin their product and offering, and through operational scale, apply the needed controls and framework.


keep in mind that cost out of control version of B6 will still have significant cost advantage over the big 3. Case in point, DL's Q3 CASM-ex project is expected to go up 11 to 14% vs 2019 which is actually higher than B6's 11 to 13%. Aside from WN, any other possible takeover airline would only raise the cost of operation in their NYC base and make things tougher. At this point, AA (the most likely merger partner) would have a hard time making B6's network work at their cost level.

There are a list of things i mentioned in JetBlue thread that they probably need to do going forward to pick up higher yielding passengers. Improving their OTP by a few % is only one of them. After all, B6/AA are coordinating schedule now and they will have far and away the best schedule on a lot of routes. B6 being late a little more often than other airlines was not the main problem for people. If they can get this "seamless" customer experience working with AA and have at least comparable OTP numbers to AA on business routes, they will be fine.

As sad as it is to say, B6 actually can learn a little bit from NK. NK somehow managed to get their OTP numbers into very respectable levels while also maintaining their cost control. Someone in JetBlue leadership should eat a humble pie and learn from what NK did.


Comparing AA and B6 ops and OTP at JFK and BOS doesn't really stack up and I'd question where you get your numbers, since it seems to want to fit a narrative on a thread you are weaving. B6 is much bigger than AA and JFK and BOS so it's really not a good or logical comparison. AA, operationally, runs a cleaner system than B6 and absent reliable, OTP where it can control it, B6 can and will struggle to grab corporate market share, no matter how snazzy the planes are.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6713
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:41 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
tphuang wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

Yep. Same here. As to the AA/B6 partnership, where there is overlap, I usually just fly AA. In NYC they seem to have gotten their on time performance back on track mostly, aside from weather-related issues, since the operational issues experienced early this month.


The reality is during pre-COVID times, AA & B6 had about the same OTP numbers out of BOS and JFK. DL mainline was noticeably better, but DL regional was only slightly better. And probably more importantly, they do try to run better operation on mint and other major business routes than their VFR stuff which faces little competition. I'd expect things to normalize to that level unless they do a major shake-up.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

If they can't get their costs under control, they'll eventually be in play (something I think will happen regardless) for a merger, but that's a significant amount of time down the road. Someone with scale will come in, take them over, ruin their product and offering, and through operational scale, apply the needed controls and framework.


keep in mind that cost out of control version of B6 will still have significant cost advantage over the big 3. Case in point, DL's Q3 CASM-ex project is expected to go up 11 to 14% vs 2019 which is actually higher than B6's 11 to 13%. Aside from WN, any other possible takeover airline would only raise the cost of operation in their NYC base and make things tougher. At this point, AA (the most likely merger partner) would have a hard time making B6's network work at their cost level.

There are a list of things i mentioned in JetBlue thread that they probably need to do going forward to pick up higher yielding passengers. Improving their OTP by a few % is only one of them. After all, B6/AA are coordinating schedule now and they will have far and away the best schedule on a lot of routes. B6 being late a little more often than other airlines was not the main problem for people. If they can get this "seamless" customer experience working with AA and have at least comparable OTP numbers to AA on business routes, they will be fine.

As sad as it is to say, B6 actually can learn a little bit from NK. NK somehow managed to get their OTP numbers into very respectable levels while also maintaining their cost control. Someone in JetBlue leadership should eat a humble pie and learn from what NK did.


Comparing AA and B6 ops and OTP at JFK and BOS doesn't really stack up and I'd question where you get your numbers, since it seems to want to fit a narrative on a thread you are weaving. B6 is much bigger than AA and JFK and BOS so it's really not a good or logical comparison. AA, operationally, runs a cleaner system than B6 and absent reliable, OTP where it can control it, B6 can and will struggle to grab corporate market share, no matter how snazzy the planes are.


I use the official gov't data.

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/OT_Delay/ ... 1.asp?20=E
For April 2019 to March 2020 (the 1 year pre-COViD)
out of JFK
AA mainline 78.61%
B6 77.35%
MQ 76.74%

out BOS
AA mainline 74.96%
B6 75.22%
MQ 70.27%

I'm really not seeing the difference here. AA is slightly better at JFK and B6 is slightly better at BOS.

I'd also disagree that B6/AA now have the best schedules on a lot of routes

If we just look at BOS, the top 10 markets are
DC, Chicago, LA, SF, NYC, Orlando, Atlanta, MIA/FLL, Denver, Philly
They'd have the best schedule to all except Atlanta, Denver and maybe NYC (we will have to see how it shakes out)
 
AA94
Posts: 786
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:37 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:11 am

Buck90 wrote:
The company is in a bad spot, and the ELT seems completely oblivious all they talk about is London, but what good is that when everything else is a mess. Jetblue is always out there swinging for a home run, London, mint, flyfi because it’s fun and exciting. But what they won’t do is take the time to work on the boring fundamentals like how to run bases or bunt (to use baseball as an analogy) but those fundamentals are what win the game.


:checkmark:

Truer words have never been spoken. JetBlue hits a lot of home runs, except on the basics of running an operationally competent airline.
 
USAirKid
Posts: 902
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:15 am

B6BOSfan wrote:
ScottB wrote:
The issue is not necessarily attracting higher-yielding passengers -- it may be keeping higher-yielding passengers from leaving due to the operational issues. If they can't run a reliable operation, passengers who actually value reaching their destinations on time will choose competitors.


This, right here. Spot on. People will not pay a premium for an experience that is no better (and perhaps worse) than the LCC. The other airlines are catching up to ways that B6 was once groundbreaking. They still own the experience in the seat -- once the plane is off the ground. They need to tighten up the operation from booking to boarding pass scanning.


But do they really have a great experience in the back of the bus? IFE of one variety or the other is on every plane, seats are reasonably cramped no matter the airline.

They no longer own the ground breaking bit of having TV in flight. Everyone has video entertainment now.
 
WN732
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:24 am

I live at one of their smaller stations (AUS). I have flown with them a few times, but I have noticed that they do not schedule enough down time between turns. If any flight is late it throws off their operation for hours on end. For AUS in particular it means that the inbound aircraft has to go sit in a pad while the offending aircraft is moved. The process just repeats itself over and over since there's very little time between flights. At some point you'll end up with two flights worth of pax at one gate.
 
bluecrew
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:13 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:21 am

It's been an issue forever.

Pre-2014ish, it was okay, scheduling was bad and it's an airline that can get easily knocked out by thunderstorms on the East Coast. Often, gate issues, especially in FLL and JFK around then.

From about 2014-2020, a lot of issues. Too tight turns - 36 minutes is not enough time to turn a 100 seat jet doing HPN-FLL; pushing the airplanes - scheduling airplanes to fly all day all night all week, with no spares. If an airplane breaks in an outstation, not only are *you* cooked but there's no spare plane downline so they're all getting canceled, or waiting for contract maintenance to come fix the plane so you can get on your way. The E190 has a tendency to present all of its faults in outstations. Crew scheduling and handling IROPS got a lot worse, then better, then worse again, mainly because the company cannot figure out summer staffing. Too many point-to-point flights, usually to SJU, from places that are not crew bases, so a 3 hour limo segment is often a monthly occurrence when things go south.

Just trying to explain it from an insider perspective, the summer season is typically the worst, and it is absolutely draining in the extreme.

Take all these things, and many more because I don't want to do a wall of text, and add a major staffing shortage and going right back to running the planes 24/7/365, yep, there are issues...
The company has needed to do a lot of things to improve the on-time performance, but it's usually a show more than a real effort. Operations initiatives, setting strict times for different boarding/departure time things, just lots of window dressing. It's always been an issue of overutilization of aircraft operating out of operationally challenging airports.
 
USAirKid
Posts: 902
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: What Gives with Jetblue's OTP?

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:04 am

bluecrew wrote:
Too many point-to-point flights, usually to SJU, from places that are not crew bases, so a 3 hour limo segment is often a monthly occurrence when things go south.


Uhm, what is a limo segment?

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