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davidjohnson6
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Ukraine airports

Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:22 pm

In southern Ukraine, there has recently been some expansion of routes. Previously, Odesa / Odessa was the main airport on the coast, with Kherson having a small amount of niche flying. Windrose has recently awakened Mykolaiv airport from its sleep with a new 6x weekly route to Kyiv
Additionally, while Dnipro used to be the big airport in its region, newly rebuilt Zaporizhia has become the main player but more surprisingly Windrose have opened a 5x weekly route from Kryvyy Rih to Kyiv, which presumably takes some pax away from DNK / OZH

I know the Mykolaiv and Kryvyy Rih routes to Kyiv were being combined in July.

If Mykolaiv as a city is far larger than Kherson, why was Mykolaiv airport dormant for so long ? Can it surpass Kherson, given that Odessa-Mykolaiv is about 2 hours by road ?

Is there a market for Kryvyy Rih - Kyiv as an air route ? Again, why was Kryvyy Rih dormant for so long ?

Taken a different standpoint, can Mykolaiv-Kyiv and Kryvyy Rih-Kyiv routes survive long term ? Is there a real need for both Mykolaiv and Kherson airports ? Does Kryvyy Rih need a passenger airport ?

Do Poltava and Rivne have a chance of regular scheduled pax service
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Ukraine airports

Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:16 pm

Can't comment on Kherson-Mykolaiv-Odesa story. I do know that road congestion and overall travel time between these three from time to time shows up in press: fixing bridges creates waits and detours, there's too much traffic in downtown Mykolaiv, jams in Odessa, that sort of thing.
Poltava's biggest trouble is that if you insist on flying, Kharkiv is not too far (150 km downtown Poltava to Kharkiv airport), and if you need a bigger airport -- KBP is 300 km away on E40, that's been apparently upgraded in years prior. Plus, you have an Intercity+ train multiple times a day; 3 hrs later you are Kyiv Passenger rail station downtown; if you need to go places on the Left Bank, it's 2hrs45mins and you are Darnytsia. And also slower trains galore...
Windrose and Ukraine International both are hubbing at KBP. 300 km of flying just doesn't really cut it for Poltava, I'm afraid.

And at IEV/Sikorsky, nobody's hubbing, it's an O&D airport through and through. No chance to sell connections from Poltava to some place else.
Before COVID, Motor-Sich tried to run their connections/handover system at IEV. They might try to rebuild it someday, but for now, with what? four-five daily flight pairs? it's just not a thing; with a very slight exception of Lviv connections -- two or three of their morning arrivals are generally timed well to connect to Lviv; and evening arrival from Lviv connects well to the two evening flights (ODS and OZH, from memory).

Riivne -- good question. What condition is their runway in? Last time I flew to Rivne, I think we landed on grass runway. But that was like 20 years ago; minimum 18. I might be imagining things. It was L-410 of Universal-Avia Rivne for sure, but my memory is fuzzier on runway type. I do distinctly remember the uncomfortable seat pitch, and that at landing. the ground seemed so close from the window, I thought my feet are already on the surface, but we haven't touched down yet :)
 
rutankrd
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Re: Ukraine airports

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:42 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
In southern Ukraine, there has recently been some expansion of routes. Previously, Odesa / Odessa was the main airport on the coast, with Kherson having a small amount of niche flying. Windrose has recently awakened Mykolaiv airport from its sleep with a new 6x weekly route to Kyiv
Additionally, while Dnipro used to be the big airport in its region, newly rebuilt Zaporizhia has become the main player but more surprisingly Windrose have opened a 5x weekly route from Kryvyy Rih to Kyiv, which presumably takes some pax away from DNK / OZH

I know the Mykolaiv and Kryvyy Rih routes to Kyiv were being combined in July.

If Mykolaiv as a city is far larger than Kherson, why was Mykolaiv airport dormant for so long ? Can it surpass Kherson, given that Odessa-Mykolaiv is about 2 hours by road ?

Is there a market for Kryvyy Rih - Kyiv as an air route ? Again, why was Kryvyy Rih dormant for so long ?

Taken a different standpoint, can Mykolaiv-Kyiv and Kryvyy Rih-Kyiv routes survive long term ? Is there a real need for both Mykolaiv and Kherson airports ? Does Kryvyy Rih need a passenger airport ?

Do Poltava and Rivne have a chance of regular scheduled pax service


In short ground transport utterly devastated due to economic impacts and the continuing low scale civil war , and the Russian naval seiges round Crimea I suppose.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Ukraine airports

Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:32 pm

rutankrd wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
In southern Ukraine, there has recently been some expansion of routes. Previously, Odesa / Odessa was the main airport on the coast, with Kherson having a small amount of niche flying. Windrose has recently awakened Mykolaiv airport from its sleep with a new 6x weekly route to Kyiv
Additionally, while Dnipro used to be the big airport in its region, newly rebuilt Zaporizhia has become the main player but more surprisingly Windrose have opened a 5x weekly route from Kryvyy Rih to Kyiv, which presumably takes some pax away from DNK / OZH

I know the Mykolaiv and Kryvyy Rih routes to Kyiv were being combined in July.

If Mykolaiv as a city is far larger than Kherson, why was Mykolaiv airport dormant for so long ? Can it surpass Kherson, given that Odessa-Mykolaiv is about 2 hours by road ?

Is there a market for Kryvyy Rih - Kyiv as an air route ? Again, why was Kryvyy Rih dormant for so long ?

Taken a different standpoint, can Mykolaiv-Kyiv and Kryvyy Rih-Kyiv routes survive long term ? Is there a real need for both Mykolaiv and Kherson airports ? Does Kryvyy Rih need a passenger airport ?

Do Poltava and Rivne have a chance of regular scheduled pax service


In short ground transport utterly devastated due to economic impacts and the continuing low scale civil war , and the Russian naval seiges round Crimea I suppose.


Not quite sure what you mean? Trains are the preferred option for longer-distance travel, including semi-high-speed ones of Intercity+ variety (around 200 km/h)
Car and long-distance bus second,
Airplane third.

Occupied territories (Autonomous Republic of Crimea+Sevastopol, and parts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts) are indeed simmering; transport to them and especially around them is a major headache.

Ruskie's role in bleeding the economy by partial occupation, low-level invasion and conflict (there's no civil war around here) is obviously underplayed by world media.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Ukraine airports

Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:40 pm

Does anyone know why KBP, the primary hub for flying within Ukraine, doesn't allow domestic-to-domestic transfers ?

I'm assuming that all airports in Ukraine, apart from places like Crimea / far east Ukraine (which don't have flights to KBP anyway), have to do security screening following the same procedures as decided by central Govt. If all pax on domestic flights to KBP are screened to the same standards, why do they need to exit to landside at KBP on arrival, and then reclear security in KBP to catch an onward flight ? Or was KBP just built really cheaply ?

It seems like a great way to wreck KBP's capacity to act as a hub airport if even domestic-to-domestic pax cannot do a simple transit
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Ukraine airports

Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:17 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Does anyone know why KBP, the primary hub for flying within Ukraine, doesn't allow domestic-to-domestic transfers ?

I'm assuming that all airports in Ukraine, apart from places like Crimea / far east Ukraine (which don't have flights to KBP anyway), have to do security screening following the same procedures as decided by central Govt. If all pax on domestic flights to KBP are screened to the same standards, why do they need to exit to landside at KBP on arrival, and then reclear security in KBP to catch an onward flight ? Or was KBP just built really cheaply ?

It seems like a great way to wreck KBP's capacity to act as a hub airport if even domestic-to-domestic pax cannot do a simple transit

The simple answer is that "Terminal D" has a domestic section as an afterthought. Terminals A, B, and F could theoretically be used for domestic flights, once terminal D went into operation.
Now, terminal D was massively overbuilt, and could actually handle all the traffic, domestic and international -- with a singular exception of a surge season for Haredim pilgrimages during Rosh Hashanah.

As a result, Terminals B and F were mothballed, terminal A was closed or demolished or somehow otherwise take out of circulation.
Guess what -- airport authorities had to improvise. They had a spare departure level -- they stuck domestic departures in there. They cordoned off a piece of the ground floor, and stuck a single luggage belt in there.
So it's not like a "law that says no domestic connections". Just KBP terminal D was retrofitted to handle SOME domestic traffic, as an afterthought. No wonder connections were lost in translation
 
uzzzer
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Re: Ukraine airports

Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:11 pm

Ukrainian airports are alive and kicking. There's been a lot of good news recently, despite difficult security and COVID environment.

- KBP (Kyiv) remains the main gate into Ukraine. As a hub it has now significant limitations, as Ukraine cannot have any incoming traffic from North (Belarus), North-East (Russia), East (no-fly zone over Russia-backed insurgency in Donbas), and South-East (no-fly zone over Russia-occupied Crimea). The useful range basically goes from Warsaw to Istanbul. So no major transit in Ukraine, until the war with Russia is over. But as an O&D market KBP is in top-20 on the continent and growing at a fast pace
- LWO (Lviv) is currently #2 in passenger traffic in Ukraine (250k+ pax in July '21), surpassing both its own pre-COVID 2019 figures, and IEV
- IEV (Kyiv city airport) has lost some traffic but goes ahead with the runway extension due 2023 and surface strengthening to allow unlimited A321 as well as limited widebody operations
- ODS (Odesa) just had a new runway put into service and is expected to get more traffic as a result
- HRK (Kharkiv) has had all-time record figures earlier this year, and in picking up traffic as well
- OZH (Zaporizhzhia) has just put a new terminal building in service as well as continuous work is done on runway and taxiway repairs. It has surpassed Dnipro as a main regional airport
- DNK (Dnipro) is stagnating under the control of a local tycoon, but the municipal-backed new terminal deal is underway to unlock the situation
- KHE (Kherson) has aggregated local, Mykolaiv, and some Crimean traffic, steadily growing in numbers. It is also a major O&D for the Ukrainian global sailor workforce.
- IFO (Ivano-Frankivsk) is also stagnating under the control of the same tycoon from Dnipro. Local flights to Kyiv and seasonal to Dnipro only.
- CVC (Chernivtsi) are about to start runway repair to be able to operate 737/320 flights, Antonov-24/ATR-72 flights to Kyiv a few times a week are flown
- KWG (Kryvyi Rih) has 5 flights a week to Kyiv which will bring some traffic to the city. As it is the president's hometown, it is likely, the flights will be there for a while. There is some genuine traffic though, as KR is a big industrial city with inconvenient road and rail links
- NLV (Mykolaiv) has just repaired the runway and taxiway surfaces and has regular service to Kyiv as well as seasonal charters. Albeit being a large city, it is also one of the most depressed economies in Ukraine
- UDJ (Uzhgorod) has resumed regular daylight time service to Kyiv after several years of operating only private and government charters. It is locked between multi-story buildings obstructing runway approach and Slovakian airspace, so this year the government has decided to go ahead with a completely new airport in Mukachevo, about 40 km inland
- VIN (Vinnytsia) has lost both regular service to Kyiv (UIA busses the passengers now to KBP) and outbound charters. However, seasonal inbound charters from Israel are to resume this year. VIN is likely to get an LCC service to Poland sooner or later.
- PLV (Poltava) is too close to Kharkiv and Kyiv for a regular service, but it has significant operations with private planes and operates seasonal charters. As the economy picks up, LCC operations are possible
- RWN (Rivne) has had rumors about LOT willing to start service, but only seasonal charters are flown. LWO and KBP are too close for regular domestic service. LCCs to Poland and other EU destinations are likely to commence in the following years
- ZTR (Zhytomyr) has just received a permanent border-crossing service and has sufficient infrastructure for seasonal charters/LCC service. The airport currently has busy flight school operations. Same in Bila Tserkva, only BT is also exploring cargo ops
- MPW will remain closed to civil aviation due to war-zone proximity (about 20 km), and aircraft vulnerability to attack from the occupied territory on the final landing approach or at take-off. The government is viewing to open ERD (Berdyansk) as Mariupol's second airport and Ukraine's Azov Sea tourist gateway. It is approximately 90 km from Mariupol
- KRQ (Kramatorsk) airport has been prepared to become dual-operated by the military and civil aviation to make Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts better connected to Kyiv. The political decision is pending approval.
- TNL (Ternopil), CKC (Cherkasy), HMJ (Khmelnytsky) all have some minor infrastructure upgrades, hoping to lift-off with cargo, small aviation or LCC operations in a few years
- UCK (Lutsk) is dead, most residents use Polish LUZ (Lublin) for their international travel, once RWN comes back to life it is likely to serve Lutsk as well, being only 70 km away
- no good news from CEJ (Chernihiv), UMY (Sumy) at least at this point
- IZL (Izmail), KCP (Kamianets-Podilsky), and other local tourist destinations are exploring upgrading the infrastructure to be able to have turboprop, possibly regional jet operations
- GML (Hostomel, Kyiv West) is a home base for An-225 the largest plane in the world and is cargo-focused. Eventually, GML might find passenger service worthwhile

- DOK (Donetsk) and VSG (Luhansk) are on the occupied territories with infrastructure destroyed
- SIP (Simferopol) and UKS (Sevastopol) in occupied Crimea are used by the authorities for passenger and military purposes respectively

The general algorithm for airport revival goes like this: first regular service to KBP/IEV, then seasonal charters, then either WAW or IST/SAW (especially considering the TK strategy of connecting even the tertiary cities), then LCCs. The economy is growing faster than the forecasts have projected, so, granted the security situation does not deteriorate, there is significant room for growth.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Ukraine airports

Sat Aug 14, 2021 6:30 pm

uzzzer wrote:
Ukrainian airports are alive and kicking. There's been a lot of good news recently, despite difficult security and COVID environment.

- KBP (Kyiv) remains the main gate into Ukraine. As a hub it has now significant limitations, as Ukraine cannot have any incoming traffic from North (Belarus), North-East (Russia), East (no-fly zone over Russia-backed insurgency in Donbas), and South-East (no-fly zone over Russia-occupied Crimea). The useful range basically goes from Warsaw to Istanbul. So no major transit in Ukraine, until the war with Russia is over. But as an O&D market KBP is in top-20 on the continent and growing at a fast pace
- LWO (Lviv) is currently #2 in passenger traffic in Ukraine (250k+ pax in July '21), surpassing both its own pre-COVID 2019 figures, and IEV
- IEV (Kyiv city airport) has lost some traffic but goes ahead with the runway extension due 2023 and surface strengthening to allow unlimited A321 as well as limited widebody operations
- ODS (Odesa) just had a new runway put into service and is expected to get more traffic as a result
- HRK (Kharkiv) has had all-time record figures earlier this year, and in picking up traffic as well
- OZH (Zaporizhzhia) has just put a new terminal building in service as well as continuous work is done on runway and taxiway repairs. It has surpassed Dnipro as a main regional airport
- DNK (Dnipro) is stagnating under the control of a local tycoon, but the municipal-backed new terminal deal is underway to unlock the situation
- KHE (Kherson) has aggregated local, Mykolaiv, and some Crimean traffic, steadily growing in numbers. It is also a major O&D for the Ukrainian global sailor workforce.
- IFO (Ivano-Frankivsk) is also stagnating under the control of the same tycoon from Dnipro. Local flights to Kyiv and seasonal to Dnipro only.
- CVC (Chernivtsi) are about to start runway repair to be able to operate 737/320 flights, Antonov-24/ATR-72 flights to Kyiv a few times a week are flown
- KWG (Kryvyi Rih) has 5 flights a week to Kyiv which will bring some traffic to the city. As it is the president's hometown, it is likely, the flights will be there for a while. There is some genuine traffic though, as KR is a big industrial city with inconvenient road and rail links
- NLV (Mykolaiv) has just repaired the runway and taxiway surfaces and has regular service to Kyiv as well as seasonal charters. Albeit being a large city, it is also one of the most depressed economies in Ukraine
- UDJ (Uzhgorod) has resumed regular daylight time service to Kyiv after several years of operating only private and government charters. It is locked between multi-story buildings obstructing runway approach and Slovakian airspace, so this year the government has decided to go ahead with a completely new airport in Mukachevo, about 40 km inland
- VIN (Vinnytsia) has lost both regular service to Kyiv (UIA busses the passengers now to KBP) and outbound charters. However, seasonal inbound charters from Israel are to resume this year. VIN is likely to get an LCC service to Poland sooner or later.
- PLV (Poltava) is too close to Kharkiv and Kyiv for a regular service, but it has significant operations with private planes and operates seasonal charters. As the economy picks up, LCC operations are possible
- RWN (Rivne) has had rumors about LOT willing to start service, but only seasonal charters are flown. LWO and KBP are too close for regular domestic service. LCCs to Poland and other EU destinations are likely to commence in the following years
- ZTR (Zhytomyr) has just received a permanent border-crossing service and has sufficient infrastructure for seasonal charters/LCC service. The airport currently has busy flight school operations. Same in Bila Tserkva, only BT is also exploring cargo ops
- MPW will remain closed to civil aviation due to war-zone proximity (about 20 km), and aircraft vulnerability to attack from the occupied territory on the final landing approach or at take-off. The government is viewing to open ERD (Berdyansk) as Mariupol's second airport and Ukraine's Azov Sea tourist gateway. It is approximately 90 km from Mariupol
- KRQ (Kramatorsk) airport has been prepared to become dual-operated by the military and civil aviation to make Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts better connected to Kyiv. The political decision is pending approval.
- TNL (Ternopil), CKC (Cherkasy), HMJ (Khmelnytsky) all have some minor infrastructure upgrades, hoping to lift-off with cargo, small aviation or LCC operations in a few years
- UCK (Lutsk) is dead, most residents use Polish LUZ (Lublin) for their international travel, once RWN comes back to life it is likely to serve Lutsk as well, being only 70 km away
- no good news from CEJ (Chernihiv), UMY (Sumy) at least at this point
- IZL (Izmail), KCP (Kamianets-Podilsky), and other local tourist destinations are exploring upgrading the infrastructure to be able to have turboprop, possibly regional jet operations
- GML (Hostomel, Kyiv West) is a home base for An-225 the largest plane in the world and is cargo-focused. Eventually, GML might find passenger service worthwhile

- DOK (Donetsk) and VSG (Luhansk) are on the occupied territories with infrastructure destroyed
- SIP (Simferopol) and UKS (Sevastopol) in occupied Crimea are used by the authorities for passenger and military purposes respectively

The general algorithm for airport revival goes like this: first regular service to KBP/IEV, then seasonal charters, then either WAW or IST/SAW (especially considering the TK strategy of connecting even the tertiary cities), then LCCs. The economy is growing faster than the forecasts have projected, so, granted the security situation does not deteriorate, there is significant room for growth.


Excellent summary,
A couple of notes -- Vinnytsia airport has problems, similar to Poltava. It's too convenient for most pax to just drive or take a train to Kyiv. Ukraine International/PS at some point stopped flying there, but offered bus service between Vinnytsia and KBP. Onboard catering, mileage accrual, all that.
Chernivtsi airport definietely accepted at least EMB-190/195 a couple of years ago (I am a witness/pax that was taken there with an EMB plane)

Another airport in similar predicament to Mariupol is Severodonetsk. Maybe not as bad (no risk of shelling of the airfield or other such), but nobody will write an insurance for a civil airplane to fly there.Even though demand is significant. When I worked in Severodonetsk in 2016, the demand for first-class seats on the trains between Severodonetsk and Kyiv, and Slavyansk and Kyiv (a popular shortcut to Severodonetsk) was always high, to saturation point. Good thing was I knew my schedules in advance, and could book tickets in advance. Otherwise, full trains day in day out.
 
tu204
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Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Ukraine airports

Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:52 am

uzzzer wrote:
- SIP (Simferopol) and UKS (Sevastopol) in occupied Crimea are used by the authorities for passenger and military purposes respectively


Since you mention Simferopol and Sevastopol in this thread:

Was in Crimea last weekend, first time since Jan 2015, what a world of change to the better in 6 years.

Awesome new terminal in SIP, but it is running at full capacity in the summer tourist season.

There are works in process to have Sevastopol open up for civilian flights, at least charters. Right now it only services Russian MoD flights. But they installed a new ILS/VOR this year, plus are certifying RNAV approaches.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Ukraine airports

Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:06 pm

tu204 wrote:
uzzzer wrote:
- SIP (Simferopol) and UKS (Sevastopol) in occupied Crimea are used by the authorities for passenger and military purposes respectively


Since you mention Simferopol and Sevastopol in this thread:

Was in Crimea last weekend, first time since Jan 2015, what a world of change to the better in 6 years.

Awesome new terminal in SIP, but it is running at full capacity in the summer tourist season.

There are works in process to have Sevastopol open up for civilian flights, at least charters. Right now it only services Russian MoD flights. But they installed a new ILS/VOR this year, plus are certifying RNAV approaches.


Good for you. The change for yet better will happen when Russian occupation is over, all culprits and accomplices (including those who break the law, visiting the occupied territory via legally closed ports of entry) are behind the bars.

Several separate attempts to open Sevastopol for civilian operations were in the works before occupation. However, at that time, Russian Navy (who still had legal basing rights in Sevastopol, unlike now) was apoplectic that civilian operation would make their existence unbearable, and cried "uncle" each time the point came up.
 
artflyer
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: Ukraine airports

Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:55 am

uzzzer wrote:
Ukrainian airports are alive and kicking. There's been a lot of good news recently, despite difficult security and COVID environment.

[...]


Thank you. Very informative.

And what happens with the idea to establish a new state-owned Ukrainian airline, possibly replacing UIA? Is this somehow going ahead and in what form and timetable?
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Ukraine airports

Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:38 am

artflyer wrote:
uzzzer wrote:
Ukrainian airports are alive and kicking. There's been a lot of good news recently, despite difficult security and COVID environment.

[...]


Thank you. Very informative.

And what happens with the idea to establish a new state-owned Ukrainian airline, possibly replacing UIA? Is this somehow going ahead and in what form and timetable?

UIA/PS was debated the other day, upstairs in the government/president meeting. The company is always running with a bunch of debt to KBP airport and ATC fees (i.e. government).

On the one hand, can't blame the owner for running this "debt-heavy" structure -- he had his money almost taken away from him under Yanukovich regime (as VV/Aerosvit; the fellow ran a controlled demolition of that company, to show that you can't just take it away).

On the other, same people who own UIA/PS, are now spending money to beef up Windrose Airlines.

Yet another factor is that same people who worked for PS for years, and were instrumental in building up SkyUp, are now in business for themselves, busy building up a charter outfit called "Bees Airlines".

Looking at all this -- why would government now through another cat among these pigeons, and try to build an airline from the ground up?
 
artflyer
Posts: 207
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Re: Ukraine airports

Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:21 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
artflyer wrote:
uzzzer wrote:
Ukrainian airports are alive and kicking. There's been a lot of good news recently, despite difficult security and COVID environment.

[...]


Thank you. Very informative.

And what happens with the idea to establish a new state-owned Ukrainian airline, possibly replacing UIA? Is this somehow going ahead and in what form and timetable?

UIA/PS was debated the other day, upstairs in the government/president meeting. The company is always running with a bunch of debt to KBP airport and ATC fees (i.e. government).

On the one hand, can't blame the owner for running this "debt-heavy" structure -- he had his money almost taken away from him under Yanukovich regime (as VV/Aerosvit; the fellow ran a controlled demolition of that company, to show that you can't just take it away).

On the other, same people who own UIA/PS, are now spending money to beef up Windrose Airlines.

Yet another factor is that same people who worked for PS for years, and were instrumental in building up SkyUp, are now in business for themselves, busy building up a charter outfit called "Bees Airlines".

Looking at all this -- why would government now through another cat among these pigeons, and try to build an airline from the ground up?


Well, in my post I was not advocating creation of such airline, but looking for information about the current status of this idea.

Still I understand the new airline would place itself in a different market segment ie a) not as an lcc, plus b) would aim to cover also domestic travel by air and long-haul.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Ukraine airports

Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:25 pm

artflyer wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
artflyer wrote:

Thank you. Very informative.

And what happens with the idea to establish a new state-owned Ukrainian airline, possibly replacing UIA? Is this somehow going ahead and in what form and timetable?

UIA/PS was debated the other day, upstairs in the government/president meeting. The company is always running with a bunch of debt to KBP airport and ATC fees (i.e. government).

On the one hand, can't blame the owner for running this "debt-heavy" structure -- he had his money almost taken away from him under Yanukovich regime (as VV/Aerosvit; the fellow ran a controlled demolition of that company, to show that you can't just take it away).

On the other, same people who own UIA/PS, are now spending money to beef up Windrose Airlines.

Yet another factor is that same people who worked for PS for years, and were instrumental in building up SkyUp, are now in business for themselves, busy building up a charter outfit called "Bees Airlines".

Looking at all this -- why would government now through another cat among these pigeons, and try to build an airline from the ground up?


Well, in my post I was not advocating creation of such airline, but looking for information about the current status of this idea.

Still I understand the new airline would place itself in a different market segment ie a) not as an lcc, plus b) would aim to cover also domestic travel by air and long-haul.


Well, if the government insists on getting involved in pax airline business (which isn't obvious it should do; they were busy selling off all of those baby-flots they inherited, since 1990's, no?)...
The easiest way in would be to demand UIA to pay all debt to KBP and ATC upfront, and if it fails to materialize, demand an immediate (and I mean, it has to be a flash operation, hours max) conversion of this debt into equity, and end up as owner of majority share in UIA. That is a simple way in.

if you want to create a brand-new airline:
1) not an lcc -- well, how far upmarket you want to go?
2) long-haul is a problem. If you haven't noticed, russia is still there, as are its claws and paws into our territories it occupies; and until it lets go, there's no profitable way to fly eastwards. It's an insanity to fly to Astana from KBP via Georgia, but that's the only option, until the russia problem is resolved.
And building a long-haul network, only westwards, based on O&D -- that's pretty much what UIA is doing now. Why would one want to undermine them, trying to cannibalize those routes?
 
815253
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Re: Ukraine airports

Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:21 pm

The managing director of IEV gave an interview.

"If passenger numbers continue to develop so positively, we will have to invest in expanding our infrastructure."

"Some airlines from the Middle East and Europe have already expressed their interest that they would like to fly to Sikorsky Kiev International Airport as soon as the extended runway becomes available."

https://www-aerotelegraph-com.translate ... ax,nv,elem
 
815253
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Re: Ukraine airports

Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:41 pm

uzzzer wrote:
- TNL (Ternopil), CKC (Cherkasy), HMJ (Khmelnytsky) all have some minor infrastructure upgrades, hoping to lift-off with cargo, small aviation or LCC operations in a few years


Ryanair wants to expand in Ukraine after the Open Skies Agreement with the EU is in effect. Also planning to introduce domestic flights.

Ryanair serves 5 airports and Wizz 5+1

For MOL 12 Ukrainian airports are interesting. Can you guess which?

1) Kyiv KBP
2) Kyiv IEV
3) Lviv LWO
4) Odesa ODS
5) Kharkiv HRK
6) Zaporizhzhia OZH
7) Dnipro DNK
8) Kherson KHE
9) Ivano-Frankivsk IFO
10) Chernivtsi CWC
11) Vinnytsia VIN
12) Mykolaiv NLV
13) Kryvyi Rih KWG
14) Rivne RWN
15) Poltava PLV
16) Uzhhorod UDJ
17) Ternopil TN
18) Cherkasy CKC
19) Khmelnytsky HMJ

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/ryanai ... 41395.html
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Ukraine airports

Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:05 pm

Just because MOL suggests 12 airports might be interesting, doesn't mean FR will fly to all 12.

In theory Mykolaiv would be interesting to MOL along with Kherson, but with Mykolaiv city centre just 65 km away from Kherson airport, flying to both cities would likely cannibalise traffic. Yes, there are other cities close by which both see FR 737s but when incomes are much lower than western Europe, 189 seats is a lot of seats to fill on near-competing routes
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Ukraine airports

Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:20 pm

Apologies for the slight thread drift...
I notice that Bees Air is selling tickets for 1x weekly flights (Mondays) between Odesa and Ganja in Azerbaijan from the start of November. It seems a bit of a strange route to me - anyone able to explain the rationale behind it ?
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Ukraine airports

Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:28 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Apologies for the slight thread drift...
I notice that Bees Air is selling tickets for 1x weekly flights (Mondays) between Odesa and Ganja in Azerbaijan from the start of November. It seems a bit of a strange route to me - anyone able to explain the rationale behind it ?

Background: Ganja was shelled during 2020 conflict between Azerbaijan and Armenia. After conclusion of the conflict, the front line is further away from Ganja. Apparently no risk to airport operations anymore.

Hypothesis -- there might be some subsidy from Azerbaijani govt to promote connectivity/travel/tourism.
 
uzzzer
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Re: Ukraine airports

Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:23 pm

Kherson KHE has been closed for runway and apron repairs until late this year. Turkish Airlines TK and WindRose 7W have shifted their flights to the nearby Mykolaiv airport NLV 70 km NW.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Ukraine airports

Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:59 pm

Rivne airport (RWN) had a sort of a proving run with a 737 coming in from Vienna Schwechat, and then departing for Tel Aviv Ben Gurion:
https://lb.ua/economics/2021/10/05/4955 ... he_20.html (couldn't find an English link, pls use Google Translate from Ukrainian).

The trial was considered a success, underlining what needs to be done. While runway itself is in a good shape, additional work needs to be done on taxiways, plus runway lights need an upgrade. They are working on it, presumed to be done by May 2022.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Ukraine airports

Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:18 am

Wizz announced lots of new international routes from Kharkiv, Kyiv, Lviv and Odesa
https://mobile.twitter.com/SeanM1997/st ... 36/photo/1
 
815253
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Re: Ukraine airports

Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:34 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Wizz announced lots of new international routes from Kharkiv, Kyiv, Lviv and Odesa
https://mobile.twitter.com/SeanM1997/st ... 36/photo/1


Now it's official.

I look forward to new Ukrainian airports being connected by Wizz. And let's see how many airports of the 12 Ryanair actually gonna serve :D

Also SkyUp and Bees Airlines may introduce new connections into the EU
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Ukraine airports

Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:56 pm

Lviv airport has 2 terminals - the old terminal 1, and the new terminal A which opened in 2012. Since 2012 almost all passenger traffic has been to/from the new terminal A. The old terminal 1 ended up used for other purposes - eg General Aviation

In 2019, there was a brief period of some domestic flights leaving from old terminal 1 (the old terminal) - I think it was for MotorSich but not sure on this

Is old terminal 1 at Lviv still used for ordinary passenger flights, or did that stop in spring 2020 ? Is there an intention to use old terminal 1 for ordinary scheduled pax flights, or is it going to be 100% new terminal A in future ?
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Ukraine airports

Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:00 pm

Looks like everything is in Terminal A, as far as pax ops is concerned. "Old terminal" has no jetways; AFAIR it is basically laid out as a ground-level waiting room, with a chokepoint, before exit to bus platform to be driven to airplanes.
Upper floor is historically used for a bunch of administrative offices.
You probably can use it for pax ops, but why?
On the other hand, as a VIP/GA location, looks very good

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