fcogafa wrote:

232 seats is quite an increase in capacity compared to the 737s. It will be interesting to see what timescale this covers

232 seats is quite an increase in capacity compare to SPIRIT!! (Spirit "only" runs 220 seats on its A321s.) Yikes.

Congratulations to Airbus and Jet2. 321NEO is a fantastic jet

wjcandee wrote:

fcogafa wrote:

232 seats is quite an increase in capacity compared to the 737s. It will be interesting to see what timescale this covers

232 seats is quite an increase in capacity compare to SPIRIT!! (Spirit "only" runs 220 seats on its A321s.) Yikes.

Hold my beer Try these:
> Vietjet has all three configurations 220, 230, 240
> Viva Aerobus 240
> Wizz Air 239
> Cebu Pacific and AirAsia has 236 [Cebu plans to reconfig to 242 but haven't been implemented yet I think]
> Volaris 230

Congratulations to Airbus and Jet2. I wonder if the Options include some LRs or XLRs.

Jet2 will still need the same number if not more aircraft going forward. These will be to increase capacity on current routes, they will not be reducing aircraft numbers so will end up with both 737-800 and A321 aircraft.

Could this be a precursor to a future order of A320N to replace the rest of their 738NGs once they start ageing,thus achieving fleet commonality? Why go for MAX8 when an A320Neo can do the same job?

https://www.airfleets.net/ageflotte/Jet2.htm

I imagine the first aircraft replaced will be the B757.

I wonder what they are "only" installing 232 when they can squeeze up to 240 in? Easyjet have 235 in theirs, and if I remember correctly, they sacrificed the extra seats so that they could fit extra galley space to the rear of door 1R.

I'm wondering if maybe Jet2 have opted for a full galley at the rear & 2 toilets in front of the rear doors, instead of the space flex option, with 2 toilets tucked in the rear wall?

Having flown Jet2 a few times, I'm sure they could use the full size galley, as they did an absolutely roaring trade on inflight sales.

b4thefall wrote:

I wonder what they are "only" installing 232 when they can squeeze up to 240 in? Easyjet have 235 in theirs, and if I remember correctly, they sacrificed the extra seats so that they could fit extra galley space to the rear of door 1R.

I'm wondering if maybe Jet2 have opted for a full galley at the rear & 2 toilets in front of the rear doors, instead of the space flex option, with 2 toilets tucked in the rear wall?
...

Maybe for some reasons it was not possible or not allowed.

What are the normal LF for the two airlines?.

I have to wonder if Jet2 will select the 35,000-pound thrust engines from Pratt and Whitney if ready for production by then.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

I have to wonder if Jet2 will select the 35,000-pound thrust engines from Pratt and Whitney if ready for production by then.

What for?

wjcandee wrote:

fcogafa wrote:

232 seats is quite an increase in capacity compared to the 737s. It will be interesting to see what timescale this covers

232 seats is quite an increase in capacity compare to SPIRIT!! (Spirit "only" runs 220 seats on its A321s.) Yikes.

Wasn‘t 220 the old exit limit of the 321ceo before „cabin flex“?

FluidFlow wrote:

wjcandee wrote:

fcogafa wrote:

232 seats is quite an increase in capacity compared to the 737s. It will be interesting to see what timescale this covers

232 seats is quite an increase in capacity compare to SPIRIT!! (Spirit "only" runs 220 seats on its A321s.) Yikes.

Wasn‘t 220 the old exit limit of the 321ceo before „cabin flex“?

With no other rules applying it was 220, but you could go 230.. With 232 seats they can probably stay at mostly 29" pitch, with in this day and age is essentially comfortable at the lower cost end of travel.

best regards
Thomas

b4thefall wrote:

I'm wondering if maybe Jet2 have opted for a full galley at the rear & 2 toilets in front of the rear doors, instead of the space flex option, with 2 toilets tucked in the rear wall?

Having flown Jet2 a few times, I'm sure they could use the full size galley, as they did an absolutely roaring trade on inflight sales.

It would seem Jet2 will have half a row less than easyJet, so I think they might have chosen a rear galley layout like EI and other space flex airlines. My guess is a 1/2 galley in front and behind Doors 1R & 3R and 2 space flex toilets behind Door 3L. As you say the extra galley space probably makes sense for Jet2, they have quite an extensive on-board and pre-order offering.

VV wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

I have to wonder if Jet2 will select the 35,000-pound thrust engines from Pratt and Whitney if ready for production by then.

What for?

Better takeoff performance from short runways. LBA's runway is 7375 feet and NCL's is 7600 feet. BRS is even shorter at 6600 feet. The MAX would struggle from all of those airfields...and a higher thrust A321neo would allow for farther destinations to be added.

How much, if any, of India and Pakistan could the A321XLR reach from the UK? There is a big ethnic population in the northeast and northwest of England that they might be able to access as a new market.

CMB Colombo Sri Lanka is about 4700NM from LHR since India is rather large I'd say most of India and all of Pakistan should be in range for an XLR from most UK airports.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

VV wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

I have to wonder if Jet2 will select the 35,000-pound thrust engines from Pratt and Whitney if ready for production by then.

What for?

Better takeoff performance from short runways. LBA's runway is 7375 feet and NCL's is 7600 feet. BRS is even shorter at 6600 feet. The MAX would struggle from all of those airfields...and a higher thrust A321neo would allow for farther destinations to be added.

No it wouldn’t. UA was flying OGG-SFO/LaX (~2000nm routes) with Max9s before the grounding (OGG has a 7000’ runway). That’s basically all of Europe and North Africa from those airports. Jet2 is already flying routes like BRS-KGS (Kos, Greece) today with the 738.

Polot wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

VV wrote:

What for?

Better takeoff performance from short runways. LBA's runway is 7375 feet and NCL's is 7600 feet. BRS is even shorter at 6600 feet. The MAX would struggle from all of those airfields...and a higher thrust A321neo would allow for farther destinations to be added.

No it wouldn’t. UA was flying OGG-SFO/LaX (~2000nm routes) with Max9s before the grounding (OGG has a 7000’ runway). That’s basically all of Europe and North Africa from those airports. Jet2 is already flying routes like BRS-KGS (Kos, Greece) today with the 738.

With a ton less people on bord from 400 feet more runway. But yes, outside of HRG or SID there shouldn't be any trouble.

Best regards
Thomas

Polot wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

VV wrote:

What for?

Better takeoff performance from short runways. LBA's runway is 7375 feet and NCL's is 7600 feet. BRS is even shorter at 6600 feet. The MAX would struggle from all of those airfields...and a higher thrust A321neo would allow for farther destinations to be added.

No it wouldn’t. UA was flying OGG-SFO/LaX (~2000nm routes) with Max9s before the grounding (OGG has a 7000’ runway). That’s basically all of Europe and North Africa from those airports. Jet2 is already flying routes like BRS-KGS (Kos, Greece) today with the 738.

Regardless, the A321neo has better runway performance, so I can't see the MAX 10 offering better payload from these airports. Sure, if need be the MAX 10 could operate those flights, but the A321neo is a more compelling option, commonality, price and availability aside (and clearly Jet2 believe what the aircraft offers offsets the conversion penalty).

Jet2 has ordered an additional 15 A321 to its initial order of 36 aircraft. As I understand, this expands the total order to up to 75 aircraft in total.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-10-05/

Oct 5 (Reuters) - British airline and holiday group Jet2 Plc (JET2.L) said on Tuesday it would buy 15 more Airbus (AIR.PA) A321 NEO aircraft, valued at $2 billion at current list prices, as airlines gear up for a travel rebound in Europe.

The order is in addition to Jet2's first-ever Airbus purchase in August, when it booked 36 firm aircraft, along with the flexibility to extend up to 60 aircraft, switching loyalties from U.S. planemaker Boeing

Airlines just can't get enough of the A321neo. It's going to make Jet2 a serious amount of money.

So jet2 is soon to be an airbus airline, another European Boeing customer Boeing has lost

A321neo continues to cause pain for Boeing

I think Airbus were really embarrassed and surprised by the success of the 787.
But now they are laughing all the way to the bank with the A321.

MCTSET wrote:

So jet2 is soon to be an airbus airline, another European Boeing customer Boeing has lost

Other than its most recent 'end of line' 738 purchases, none of its fleet have been directly ordered from Boeing. Everything else being picked up on the after market.

JannEejit wrote:

MCTSET wrote:

So jet2 is soon to be an airbus airline, another European Boeing customer Boeing has lost

Other than its most recent 'end of line' 738 purchases, none of its fleet have been directly ordered from Boeing. Everything else being picked up on the after market.

Yes, but Jet2 should have been a slam-dunk MAX order.

zkojq wrote:

Airlines just can't get enough of the A321neo. It's going to make Jet2 a serious amount of money.

Airlines don't care much about brand loyalty. They will spend their hard earned cash on machines that will help them make more cash.

scbriml wrote:

JannEejit wrote:

MCTSET wrote:

So jet2 is soon to be an airbus airline, another European Boeing customer Boeing has lost

Other than its most recent 'end of line' 738 purchases, none of its fleet have been directly ordered from Boeing. Everything else being picked up on the after market.

Yes, but Jet2 should have been a slam-dunk MAX order.

Not really Jet2 offers narrow body TATL flights, that is something that is not possible with the MAX, especially in winter when Jet2 offered flights to New York. Now instead of leasing in A330s from time to time, the right version of the 321 will offer that capability. So from a fleet simplification point the A321 was the only aircraft on offer that has the capability Jet2 was looking for.

Good to see, as someone who used Jet2 back in 2002 when they were just starting out. They came out of covid with flying colours very well from a customer perspective with their no quibble quick refunds. If their customers are not totally fickleh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FluidFlow wrote:

scbriml wrote:

JannEejit wrote:

Other than its most recent 'end of line' 738 purchases, none of its fleet have been directly ordered from Boeing. Everything else being picked up on the after market.

Yes, but Jet2 should have been a slam-dunk MAX order.

Not really Jet2 offers narrow body TATL flights, that is something that is not possible with the MAX, especially in winter when Jet2 offered flights to New York. Now instead of leasing in A330s from time to time, the right version of the 321 will offer that capability. So from a fleet simplification point the A321 was the only aircraft on offer that has the capability Jet2 was looking for.

The vast majority of Jet2’s flights are to typical European holiday destinations. Even with the top-up, they don’t have enough on order to replace their entire fleet.

Wonder if any XLR's will be included in the latest order. Jet2 could then dabble in some longer haul flights such as the Dominican Republic in winter.

FluidFlow wrote:

scbriml wrote:

JannEejit wrote:

Other than its most recent 'end of line' 738 purchases, none of its fleet have been directly ordered from Boeing. Everything else being picked up on the after market.

Yes, but Jet2 should have been a slam-dunk MAX order.

Not really Jet2 offers narrow body TATL flights, that is something that is not possible with the MAX, especially in winter when Jet2 offered flights to New York. Now instead of leasing in A330s from time to time, the right version of the 321 will offer that capability. So from a fleet simplification point the A321 was the only aircraft on offer that has the capability Jet2 was looking for.

Transatlantic is very much possible from the U.K./Ireland with the MAX. Norwegian managed it just fine, year round. After the MAX grounding they even operated with 738s for a while. I honestly doubt that their short, highly seasonal transatlantic shopping trips played much of a part in their consideration. It’s part of the overall picture, but they hardly picked the A321 solely because of its transatlantic capabilities. Do bear in mind they selected the A321ceo pre-COVID.

BrianDromey wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

scbriml wrote:

Yes, but Jet2 should have been a slam-dunk MAX order.

Not really Jet2 offers narrow body TATL flights, that is something that is not possible with the MAX, especially in winter when Jet2 offered flights to New York. Now instead of leasing in A330s from time to time, the right version of the 321 will offer that capability. So from a fleet simplification point the A321 was the only aircraft on offer that has the capability Jet2 was looking for.

Transatlantic is very much possible from the U.K./Ireland with the MAX. Norwegian managed it just fine, year round. After the MAX grounding they even operated with 738s for a while. I honestly doubt that their short, highly seasonal transatlantic shopping trips played much of a part in their consideration. It’s part of the overall picture, but they hardly picked the A321 solely because of its transatlantic capabilities. Do bear in mind they selected the A321ceo pre-COVID.

Pardon my ignorance,but does TATL require ETOPS certification and does Jet2 hold it ?

VolvoBus wrote:

BrianDromey wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

Not really Jet2 offers narrow body TATL flights, that is something that is not possible with the MAX, especially in winter when Jet2 offered flights to New York. Now instead of leasing in A330s from time to time, the right version of the 321 will offer that capability. So from a fleet simplification point the A321 was the only aircraft on offer that has the capability Jet2 was looking for.

Transatlantic is very much possible from the U.K./Ireland with the MAX. Norwegian managed it just fine, year round. After the MAX grounding they even operated with 738s for a while. I honestly doubt that their short, highly seasonal transatlantic shopping trips played much of a part in their consideration. It’s part of the overall picture, but they hardly picked the A321 solely because of its transatlantic capabilities. Do bear in mind they selected the A321ceo pre-COVID.

Pardon my ignorance,but does TATL require ETOPS certification and does Jet2 hold it ?

G-LSAB, AC, AE, AK and AN are all ETOPS certified.

BrianDromey wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

scbriml wrote:

Yes, but Jet2 should have been a slam-dunk MAX order.

Not really Jet2 offers narrow body TATL flights, that is something that is not possible with the MAX, especially in winter when Jet2 offered flights to New York. Now instead of leasing in A330s from time to time, the right version of the 321 will offer that capability. So from a fleet simplification point the A321 was the only aircraft on offer that has the capability Jet2 was looking for.

Transatlantic is very much possible from the U.K./Ireland with the MAX. Norwegian managed it just fine, year round. After the MAX grounding they even operated with 738s for a while. I honestly doubt that their short, highly seasonal transatlantic shopping trips played much of a part in their consideration. It’s part of the overall picture, but they hardly picked the A321 solely because of its transatlantic capabilities. Do bear in mind they selected the A321ceo pre-COVID.

Possible and actually economically viable is something different. The A319ceo and even the A318ceo are also possible to do TATL but it was never economically viable.

The airline industry is such a slow industry, many decisions have to be made years in advance, the change to the 321neo family was undoubtedly also made with the knowledge in the background that there is the possibility to offer TATL as well as serve the EU market with one family of aircraft without any trade offs. Just by having the 321 Jet2 can offer the winter shopping trips and even fly to Florida if needed. They can just have this option now. Going with the MAX actually boxed them into their market without any option of ever expanding beyond Europe.

It is a decision that has to be made by every carrier: Do I want a simple fleet that still offers the option to fly up to 4500nm or am I ok with what I have within the market I serve.

Just done some basic maths and i have to say the more i look at this order i'm not sure whether its for fleet replacement or expansion or both(latter most likely).

Currently 75 new build A321s would replace their entire B738 fleet one for one (assuming they take all the A321s) but obviously there are the 757s and 737-300s which i will admit i didn't expect to see them make it through Covid but they have and remain in service out of Manchester and Leeds Bradford respectively. And what of the sole used A321 in the fleet. How does that figure in the future of the airline when it seems to be a bit of an Orphan in the fleet.

I wonder if they will only end up taking 50 or so A321s and have mixed fleet with the B737s with the older 800s withdrawn (they do have some single and double digit c/n 800s in the fleet). Having said that i notice they have just added G-DRTJ which is an ex Norwegian example built in 2009 but its possible they signed for that before the a321 order was signed and sealed. One thing i do know is 30 years old is an age some airlines would look at with sheer horror but looking at how good G-LSAD looked at Kemble it certainly wouldn't bother me and obviously not those at Jet2 HQ who clearly know how to get the best out of their assets.

It will certainly be interesting to see how this plays out and what it means for expansion as 75 A321s and 75 (potentially less by the time the last a321 is delivered) B737-800s is a massive increase in flights with a slightly less massive increase in seats.

Anyone care to offer any comments on my assumptions and thoughts....

B757236GT wrote:

Just done some basic maths and i have to say the more i look at this order i'm not sure whether its for fleet replacement or expansion or both(latter most likely).

Currently 75 new build A321s would replace their entire B738 fleet one for one (assuming they take all the A321s) but obviously there are the 757s and 737-300s which i will admit i didn't expect to see them make it through Covid but they have and remain in service out of Manchester and Leeds Bradford respectively. And what of the sole used A321 in the fleet. How does that figure in the future of the airline when it seems to be a bit of an Orphan in the fleet.

I wonder if they will only end up taking 50 or so A321s and have mixed fleet with the B737s with the older 800s withdrawn (they do have some single and double digit c/n 800s in the fleet). Having said that i notice they have just added G-DRTJ which is an ex Norwegian example built in 2009 but its possible they signed for that before the a321 order was signed and sealed. One thing i do know is 30 years old is an age some airlines would look at with sheer horror but looking at how good G-LSAD looked at Kemble it certainly wouldn't bother me and obviously not those at Jet2 HQ who clearly know how to get the best out of their assets.

It will certainly be interesting to see how this plays out and what it means for expansion as 75 A321s and 75 (potentially less by the time the last a321 is delivered) B737-800s is a massive increase in flights with a slightly less massive increase in seats.

Anyone care to offer any comments on my assumptions and thoughts....

The A223 would be a good replacement for there remaining B737's.

B757236GT wrote:

Just done some basic maths and i have to say the more i look at this order i'm not sure whether its for fleet replacement or expansion or both(latter most likely).

Currently 75 new build A321s would replace their entire B738 fleet one for one (assuming they take all the A321s) but obviously there are the 757s and 737-300s which i will admit i didn't expect to see them make it through Covid but they have and remain in service out of Manchester and Leeds Bradford respectively. And what of the sole used A321 in the fleet. How does that figure in the future of the airline when it seems to be a bit of an Orphan in the fleet.

I wonder if they will only end up taking 50 or so A321s and have mixed fleet with the B737s with the older 800s withdrawn (they do have some single and double digit c/n 800s in the fleet). Having said that i notice they have just added G-DRTJ which is an ex Norwegian example built in 2009 but its possible they signed for that before the a321 order was signed and sealed. One thing i do know is 30 years old is an age some airlines would look at with sheer horror but looking at how good G-LSAD looked at Kemble it certainly wouldn't bother me and obviously not those at Jet2 HQ who clearly know how to get the best out of their assets.

It will certainly be interesting to see how this plays out and what it means for expansion as 75 A321s and 75 (potentially less by the time the last a321 is delivered) B737-800s is a massive increase in flights with a slightly less massive increase in seats.

Anyone care to offer any comments on my assumptions and thoughts....

Why would they only take 50 when they justed topped their order to 75?

tvh wrote:

B757236GT wrote:

Just done some basic maths and i have to say the more i look at this order i'm not sure whether its for fleet replacement or expansion or both(latter most likely).

Currently 75 new build A321s would replace their entire B738 fleet one for one (assuming they take all the A321s) but obviously there are the 757s and 737-300s which i will admit i didn't expect to see them make it through Covid but they have and remain in service out of Manchester and Leeds Bradford respectively. And what of the sole used A321 in the fleet. How does that figure in the future of the airline when it seems to be a bit of an Orphan in the fleet.

I wonder if they will only end up taking 50 or so A321s and have mixed fleet with the B737s with the older 800s withdrawn (they do have some single and double digit c/n 800s in the fleet). Having said that i notice they have just added G-DRTJ which is an ex Norwegian example built in 2009 but its possible they signed for that before the a321 order was signed and sealed. One thing i do know is 30 years old is an age some airlines would look at with sheer horror but looking at how good G-LSAD looked at Kemble it certainly wouldn't bother me and obviously not those at Jet2 HQ who clearly know how to get the best out of their assets.

It will certainly be interesting to see how this plays out and what it means for expansion as 75 A321s and 75 (potentially less by the time the last a321 is delivered) B737-800s is a massive increase in flights with a slightly less massive increase in seats.

Anyone care to offer any comments on my assumptions and thoughts....

The A223 would be a good replacement for there remaining B737's.

That would leave an almost 100 seat gap with the A321. Their 738s seat 189…the A223 is too small.

They have less than a dozen 733s left. They are not going to be directly replaced with anything.

I wonder if they will only end up taking 50 or so A321s and have mixed fleet with the B737s with the older 800s withdrawn
They have less than a dozen 733s left. They are not going to be directly replaced with anything.

If the A321s are too big for some services perhaps they could take some A320neos? That would make sense from a commonality point of view.

I honestly just expect a split A321neo/738 fleet for a long while. They had no problem doing that with 737/757.

For Reference they have the following in service
A321 - 1
B737-300 - 3
B737-800 -75
B757-200 - 6

Of those three types are based at single bases A321/757 at MAN and B733 at LBA. As i said i thought those 733s were gone with covid but they seem to have made a comeback for now!

Apologies if I've missed it, but have Jet2 decided on the engines yet? The other British neo operators (BA and easyJet) have CFM engines.

Polot wrote:

I honestly just expect a split A321neo/738 fleet for a long while. They had no problem doing that with 737/757.

Agreed, some of the 737-800's are young and it's not inconceivable that Jet2 will operate some of these for many years yet. Given their history of operating older aircraft, there's every chance they could still be flying for them in 2040!

I also agree with you say about the A220's. The fact they're not being replaced by a similarly-sized aircraft indicates they're content with the 737-800 being the smallest aircraft in the fleet moving forward and have no need for anything smaller, otherwise they would have acquired something smaller by now.

737-300-sized aircraft were perfect when they first started out and were perfect for most of the routes they used to operate out of Blackpool when that was still open, but the trend in recent years has been to upgauge. easyJet realised the A320's were exactly what they needed when they bought GB Airways and even they are now getting on the A321-sized aircraft bandwagon, so much so I guess they regret not going for the A320 sooner and for taking on so many A319's.

DartHerald wrote:

If the A321s are too big for some services perhaps they could take some A320neos? That would make sense from a commonality point of view.

The A320neo's would require large investment which I would have fancied them to do if it wasn't for the young -800's they've got in the fleet and had since they were built. That said, it would be a lot simpler to add A320neo's in the future should they wish and would be a logical choice to replace the -800's over time on routes that don't need the capacity of the A321neo.

However, I can't see it being in their thinking anytime soon given the youthful nature of some -800's and the large numbers of A321neo's on order. The exception would be if some used/nearly-new A320neo's with the right engine suddenly become available.

scbriml wrote:

JannEejit wrote:

MCTSET wrote:

So jet2 is soon to be an airbus airline, another European Boeing customer Boeing has lost

Other than its most recent 'end of line' 738 purchases, none of its fleet have been directly ordered from Boeing. Everything else being picked up on the after market.

Yes, but Jet2 should have been a slam-dunk MAX order.

I’m not sure it should have been a slam-dunk MAX order, I’m not surprised when any historic 757 operator orders A321neo’s.

Jet2 have taken up the option for a further 6 A321Neos.

The order started at 36, then 15 more options were taken, now 6 more are added which brings the total firm orders to 57.

https://simpleflying.com/jet2-firms-opt ... 1neos/amp/

With that seat count they must have 4 toilets on board which is good. Easy with 235 have only 3 which I don't think is enough not to mention wizz s which are 245 with 2!

I'm guessing tall people are banished from flying on board with that seat count.