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PITFlyer330
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Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:56 pm

Four new avelo cities https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/142 ... 90376?s=20

FNL? Didnt see that coming

others are more expected good luck to avelo. going after allegiant at pvu
Last edited by PITFlyer330 on Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:11 pm

Does FNL have TSA?
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:20 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Does FNL have TSA?

They had air service up until a few years ago with Allegiant, I'm sure it's easily reinstated if they've since taken it away
 
flyoregon
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:22 pm

PVU seems like a risky one with Allegiant being pretty strong there. F9 tried it a few years ago and it didn't work out too well. Yes, times are different, but F9 has a huge connecting network out of Denver, something Avelo doesn't have, and it still didn't succeed.

SGU is a growing market, but I wonder what the demand to BUR is from there when UA, DL, or AA don't even have LAX.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:28 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Does FNL have TSA?

They had air service up until a few years ago with Allegiant, I'm sure it's easily reinstated if they've since taken it away

I remember it being anything but easy when KS went into LMT.
 
PITFlyer330
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:30 pm

aw man avelo removed them. Cant book anymore
 
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stl07
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:45 pm

SGU during the winter? Interesting
 
AndoAv8R
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:49 pm

I'm a local to FNL (I can see the airport from my house) I'm really excited for this. We have been getting the occasional charter flights in (swift air using a 737-300 was in last week in fact) as well as Colorado State University using a key lime 328jet frequently. They do have the full setup for TSA although hasn't been staffed since we lost the last regular service (can't remember the name of it flew to the Chicago area). Also has gotten a lot busier since the local community college moved flight training operations from greeley-weld municipal.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:14 pm

PITFlyer330 wrote:
aw man avelo removed them. Cant book anymore

Did someone let the info out a little too soon?? Ooopps, my bad.. LOL. At least we know they have plans for more.
 
flyoregon
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:15 pm

stl07 wrote:
SGU during the winter? Interesting


Makes more sense than PVU in the winter. SGU is at least warmer
 
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stl07
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:16 pm

flyoregon wrote:
stl07 wrote:
SGU during the winter? Interesting


Makes more sense than PVU in the winter. SGU is at least warmer

That's because PVU actually has a reason to be there in the winter. Utah powder. Granted, if I am driving all the way to Burbank instead of LAX, I may as well just drive to Mt baldy or Big Bear/Mammoth in CA itself.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:20 pm

flyoregon wrote:
stl07 wrote:
SGU during the winter? Interesting


Makes more sense than PVU in the winter. SGU is at least warmer


Warmer, not warm.

Avg January high 50F. Avg Jan low 26F

Those are 69F and 46F in Palm Springs.

http://www.weatherbase.com/weather/weat ... of-America

SGU is on its way as a retirement destination, not just the seasonal gateway to Zion NP. (Zion visits: 99K in 1/2019, 630K in 7/2019, per the NPS.) But from Burbank, I don't know.
 
amcnd
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:48 pm

stl07 wrote:
flyoregon wrote:
stl07 wrote:
SGU during the winter? Interesting


Makes more sense than PVU in the winter. SGU is at least warmer

That's because PVU actually has a reason to be there in the winter. Utah powder. Granted, if I am driving all the way to Burbank instead of LAX, I may as well just drive to Mt baldy or Big Bear/Mammoth in CA itself.



Provo is only 30 mins to Deer Valley or Sundance. Or the new Mayflower Meadow thats going in.. plus all the Provo-Disneyland traffic…. They will do well there.. How long before SkyWest starts SGU-LAX again..???
Last edited by amcnd on Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
amcnd
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:50 pm

amcnd wrote:
stl07 wrote:
flyoregon wrote:

Makes more sense than PVU in the winter. SGU is at least warmer

That's because PVU actually has a reason to be there in the winter. Utah powder. Granted, if I am driving all the way to Burbank instead of LAX, I may as well just drive to Mt baldy or Big Bear/Mammoth in CA itself.



Provo is only 30 mins to Deer Valley or Sundance. Or the new Mayflower Meadow thats going in..Not even in the same ballpark for snow as Socal resorts… plus all the Provo-Disneyland traffic…. They will do well there.. How long before SkyWest starts SGU-LAX again..??? Heck the Sundance Film festival in Jan is enough to fill 737’s to PVU all day long for a week straight!!!
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:15 am

MRY is a surprising add considering all the connection traffic from LAX and the Big Stripe already serving from BUR. Would think they’d rather go after a leisure market like wine country in PRB or summer getaway at TVL.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:27 am

Aaron747 wrote:
MRY is a surprising add considering all the connection traffic from LAX and the Big Stripe already serving from BUR. Would think they’d rather go after a leisure market like wine country in PRB or summer getaway at TVL.


TVL won't happen anytime soon because that airport is closed to commercial service.

I would like to see how Avelo does at MRY, especially during the Fall, Winter and Spring, i.e. fog.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:34 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
MRY is a surprising add considering all the connection traffic from LAX and the Big Stripe already serving from BUR. Would think they’d rather go after a leisure market like wine country in PRB or summer getaway at TVL.


TVL won't happen anytime soon because that airport is closed to commercial service.

I would like to see how Avelo does at MRY, especially during the Fall, Winter and Spring, i.e. fog.


I see, thanks. Also just learned the former TVL terminal is now the South Lake Tahoe city hall :lol:
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:46 am

Aaron747 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
MRY is a surprising add considering all the connection traffic from LAX and the Big Stripe already serving from BUR. Would think they’d rather go after a leisure market like wine country in PRB or summer getaway at TVL.


TVL won't happen anytime soon because that airport is closed to commercial service.

I would like to see how Avelo does at MRY, especially during the Fall, Winter and Spring, i.e. fog.


I see, thanks. Also just learned the former TVL terminal is now the South Lake Tahoe city hall :lol:


Yes...but never say never.
 
PITFlyer330
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:09 pm

 
PITFlyer330
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:28 pm

and just like that Monterey and Saint george are gone https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/143 ... 34882?s=20

Pvu delayed two months
 
Wneast
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:30 pm

PITFlyer330 wrote:
and just like that Monterey and Saint george are gone https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/143 ... 34882?s=20

Pvu delayed two months

I laugh because you probably can’t fill a 189 seats to those places
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:11 pm

PITFlyer330 wrote:
and just like that Monterey and Saint george are gone https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/143 ... 34882?s=20

Pvu delayed two months


All because the CEO doesn't seem to understand some of these markets, it seems. MRY and SGU are NOT winter tourist markets by any stretch of the imagination...not many people go to National parks in the winter. MRY is also essentially a summer market.
 
F27500
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:59 pm

I wonder if the 737-800s are just too much airplane for some of these flaky little places out west they're trying to fly to .. Provo .. St.George .. Ogden.. Eureka .. come on now .. would they ever need 189 seats for these little villages?

Now .. move those -800s to HVN and watch us them fill up! ;) ;)
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:43 pm

F27500 wrote:
I wonder if the 737-800s are just too much airplane for some of these flaky little places out west they're trying to fly to .. Provo .. St.George .. Ogden.. Eureka .. come on now .. would they ever need 189 seats for these little villages?

Now .. move those -800s to HVN and watch us them fill up! ;) ;)


Surprised they are flying to Eureka.
 
RJNUT
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:53 pm

MRY i thought could at least survive on intrastate travel alone. but as noted above, that's a lot of seats to fill on any O/D? market of these types
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:09 am

F27500 wrote:
I wonder if the 737-800s are just too much airplane for some of these flaky little places out west they're trying to fly to .. Provo .. St.George .. Ogden.. Eureka .. come on now .. would they ever need 189 seats for these little villages?

Now .. move those -800s to HVN and watch us them fill up! ;) ;)


Avelo would if they could but HVN doesn't have the runway to handle a fully-loaded -800. That's why Avelo is using the -700's.
 
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Coronado990
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:13 am

They should add a BUR-ACV-SAN-ACV-BUR "W" routing. I'd bet they would be surprised.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:52 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:
and just like that Monterey and Saint george are gone https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/143 ... 34882?s=20

Pvu delayed two months


All because the CEO doesn't seem to understand some of these markets, it seems. MRY and SGU are NOT winter tourist markets by any stretch of the imagination...not many people go to National parks in the winter. MRY is also essentially a summer market.


No, but people from St George fly to S. California in the Fall - Spring I'm betting, Disney & the family vacations that happen a few times a year. Something not super expensive. Perfect XP Holiday.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:44 am

RWA380 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:
and just like that Monterey and Saint george are gone https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/143 ... 34882?s=20

Pvu delayed two months


All because the CEO doesn't seem to understand some of these markets, it seems. MRY and SGU are NOT winter tourist markets by any stretch of the imagination...not many people go to National parks in the winter. MRY is also essentially a summer market.


No, but people from St George fly to S. California in the Fall - Spring I'm betting, Disney & the family vacations that happen a few times a year. Something not super expensive. Perfect XP Holiday.


Yeah...if the families want to take their kids out cl classes. Fall sucks for any airlines.
 
joeblow10
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:59 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:
and just like that Monterey and Saint george are gone https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/143 ... 34882?s=20

Pvu delayed two months


All because the CEO doesn't seem to understand some of these markets, it seems. MRY and SGU are NOT winter tourist markets by any stretch of the imagination...not many people go to National parks in the winter. MRY is also essentially a summer market.


I was told SGU IS a winter market - which, seemed shocking to me. Hence why they shut their runway down during the summer and not during the winter.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:34 am

joeblow10 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:
and just like that Monterey and Saint george are gone https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/143 ... 34882?s=20

Pvu delayed two months


All because the CEO doesn't seem to understand some of these markets, it seems. MRY and SGU are NOT winter tourist markets by any stretch of the imagination...not many people go to National parks in the winter. MRY is also essentially a summer market.


I was told SGU IS a winter market - which, seemed shocking to me. Hence why they shut their runway down during the summer and not during the winter.

Makes sense to some extent. It was always a back to door to Vegas during peak seasons, and Cold Utah to warm California in the winter.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:00 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:

All because the CEO doesn't seem to understand some of these markets, it seems. MRY and SGU are NOT winter tourist markets by any stretch of the imagination...not many people go to National parks in the winter. MRY is also essentially a summer market.


I was told SGU IS a winter market - which, seemed shocking to me. Hence why they shut their runway down during the summer and not during the winter.

Makes sense to some extent. It was always a back to door to Vegas during peak seasons, and Cold Utah to warm California in the winter.


I suppose going from UT to CA. But does SGU REALLY have the population base to support even 2X weekly 737-800. I would imagine SGU would be more popular during the summer for those that like to visit National Parks in that area.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:46 am

They always did well with two-a-day [email protected]'s, and Once a day CRJ's to LAX. an 800 to Burbank? Who knows, but I doubt it. The Terminal has one, count'em ONE, Snack Vending Machine, and ONE pop machine.
 
bluecrew
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:14 am

FNL is... interesting. I live in Denver. I have a bad commute.

When people come to Colorado, by and large, they fly to Denver. Yes, there's Eagle/Vail/etc., which are all basically vacation traffic especially considering the price tag to get there... that's nothing compared to the resorts! The Springs keeps a tidy traffic number from people local or military-related traffic, but even people coming from the Springs routinely drive to Denver to fly.

Springs is 3x the size of Fort Collins... and they eke out regional jet flights and the occasional mainline to major airline hubs, plus a little low cost presence. Yeah, Fort Collins is a blast and it's near some good destination type spots, but it's not going to draw that sort of traffic. I'd bet they go Allegiant here and market this as the "Denver - Loveland Airport," if not initially then maybe 6 months after they start.

Tough market to say the least - others have tried and failed at FNL. Good on them for giving it a shot though.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:02 pm

I heard SGU was a deferral not a cancelation of service.
 
joeblow10
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:36 pm

bluecrew wrote:
FNL is... interesting. I live in Denver. I have a bad commute.

When people come to Colorado, by and large, they fly to Denver. Yes, there's Eagle/Vail/etc., which are all basically vacation traffic especially considering the price tag to get there... that's nothing compared to the resorts! The Springs keeps a tidy traffic number from people local or military-related traffic, but even people coming from the Springs routinely drive to Denver to fly.

Springs is 3x the size of Fort Collins... and they eke out regional jet flights and the occasional mainline to major airline hubs, plus a little low cost presence. Yeah, Fort Collins is a blast and it's near some good destination type spots, but it's not going to draw that sort of traffic. I'd bet they go Allegiant here and market this as the "Denver - Loveland Airport," if not initially then maybe 6 months after they start.

Tough market to say the least - others have tried and failed at FNL. Good on them for giving it a shot though.


Nobody has really failed at FNL. G4 ran a successful op for nearly a decade to LAS and eventually AZA but when the flight training traffic grew too much and there was no control tower - they packed up shop after a couple of close calls. They’re the only ones that have ever even tried it - minus some hodge podge random op by Elite to RFD

The airport does technically have a “tower” now in the form of a virtual tower… but it sounds like full approval has been delayed due to COVID. I would be surprised if G4 doesn’t return once it is fully authorized.

FNL is the perfect place for LCC service to Vegas, LA, PHX, maybe a few other places out West. I don’t know if Avelo will succeed though due to lack of marketing and awareness in the area.
 
ScottB
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:55 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
They always did well with two-a-day [email protected]'s, and Once a day CRJ's to LAX


Did they really "do well" to LAX, or was it mostly about moving SkyWest employees back and forth on company business or non-revs, as well as positioning flights sold as revenue flights?
 
alasizon
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:53 pm

ScottB wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
They always did well with two-a-day [email protected]'s, and Once a day CRJ's to LAX


Did they really "do well" to LAX, or was it mostly about moving SkyWest employees back and forth on company business or non-revs, as well as positioning flights sold as revenue flights?


I can tell you PHX-SGU was one of the best performing revenue LF routes pre-COVID and has remained strong (hence why it is 3x CR7s). A lot of the connections over PHX are to California but it isn't heavily concentrated to the LA Basin, it is spread out all over California. My guess is the demand is there for a direct connection to LA but not as 2-3x weekly service, rather it is one that benefits from smaller gauge but daily service.

LAX-SGU was entirely at-risk flying for SkyWest so they wouldn't have stayed in the market if they weren't making a profit.
 
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redzeppelin
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:37 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:
and just like that Monterey and Saint george are gone https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/143 ... 34882?s=20

Pvu delayed two months


All because the CEO doesn't seem to understand some of these markets, it seems. MRY and SGU are NOT winter tourist markets by any stretch of the imagination...not many people go to National parks in the winter. MRY is also essentially a summer market.


I was told SGU IS a winter market - which, seemed shocking to me. Hence why they shut their runway down during the summer and not during the winter.


This is completely true, but nuanced. I live in Utah and frequently go to SGU for work. Within Utah, St. George is known as a nearby warm winter getaway where you can play golf 12 months per year. Lots of retirees and various affluent people in northern Utah (SLC metro) have vacation homes or condos in the SGU area. They tend to go there during the winter to escape the cold, snow, and inversions (valley smog) that plague SLC in the winter. My perception is that the population of the city almost doubles in the winter. The SGU airport is definitely busier in the winter, but I think a lot of it is outbound traffic driven by the seasonal residents.

The summer season draws tourists from other states and countries who come to visit Zion and surrounding parks, but they don't spend any time in the city of St. George. A lot of them fly to LAS and drive to Zion together with the Grand Canyon and other attractions as part of multi-stop itinerary. The daily summer high temps are often 110F and above. It's too hot to play golf, and St George doesn't have much else to offer them. :duck: (ZNP is at higher elevation and is usually much cooler than SG).

I was just talking to my St. George colleagues about this Avelo flight yesterday, before hearing that it was dropped/delayed. They seemed more interested in seeing the OO flight to LAX return.
 
KFNL
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:08 pm

bluecrew wrote:
FNL is... interesting. I live in Denver. I have a bad commute.

When people come to Colorado, by and large, they fly to Denver. Yes, there's Eagle/Vail/etc., which are all basically vacation traffic especially considering the price tag to get there... that's nothing compared to the resorts! The Springs keeps a tidy traffic number from people local or military-related traffic, but even people coming from the Springs routinely drive to Denver to fly.

Springs is 3x the size of Fort Collins... and they eke out regional jet flights and the occasional mainline to major airline hubs, plus a little low cost presence. Yeah, Fort Collins is a blast and it's near some good destination type spots, but it's not going to draw that sort of traffic. I'd bet they go Allegiant here and market this as the "Denver - Loveland Airport," if not initially then maybe 6 months after they start.

Tough market to say the least - others have tried and failed at FNL. Good on them for giving it a shot though.


You are technically correct, Colorado Springs is three times larger than Fort Collins alone, but FNL is located between the cities of Fort Collins, Loveland, and Greeley and the many smaller towns in between. If you compare apples to apples, FNL actually has more people than Colorado Springs within a 30 mile radius. Northern Colorado has doubled in population since 1990, and is projected to double again by 2050. Any air carrier who elects to serve FNL will have similar or better opportunities as compared to Colorado Springs, and the ability to capture beyond to the north into Wyoming and Western Nebraska.

For anyone wondering, within 30 miles of FNL the population is 827,872 compared to 30 miles of COS of 767,485. Median disposable income for FNL in this area is $61,566 compared to the COS figure of $57,339. Per capital income and median net worth were also higher in the FNL area compared to COS. This is data extracted from ESRI demographic summary from this year drawing a 30 mile ring around both airports.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:45 am

I can’t imagine SGU attracting many tourists. There’s a very limited number of cars available for rent, and pre-COVID it was common for them to be sold out. SGU has been smashing passenger records, but it’s mostly people leaving the area. I’m sure a good number work for Sky West.
 
Cactusjuba
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Re: Avelo adding FNL, SGU, PVU, MRY

Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:49 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
I can’t imagine SGU attracting many tourists. There’s a very limited number of cars available for rent, and pre-COVID it was common for them to be sold out. SGU has been smashing passenger records, but it’s mostly people leaving the area. I’m sure a good number work for Sky West.


I'm surprised it's not as well marketed as the prime gateway to Zion/Bryce/Grand Canyon (North Rim). You're right though, most passengers have local ties, not pure vacation travelers. IMO they should name the airport St. George/Zion airport, like Fresno/Yosemite or Reno/Tahoe. Get airline visual media/SM posts with images of the parks, tagged with SGU vs LAS/PHX/SLC. It'd be a start. LAS clearly has a huge appeal as a gateway for these National Parks with its' plethora of air carriers & cheap fares, and you can spend some days in Vegas for fun. So many people who just go to the parks don't even know the SGU exists.

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