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Miami
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Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:15 pm

Condor has announced an order of 16 Airbus A330-900neos.

The first aircraft is expected in autumn 2022.

https://condor-newsroom.condor.com/en/u ... mn-2022-1/

- Miami
 
jbs2886
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:21 pm

Honestly this is what I anticipated, but was hoping for 787s. I suspect Boeing 787 delays hurt (among other things, like price probably).

Deliveries from Fall 2022 through Mid-2024. Pretty fast!
 
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LH748
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:28 pm

It's sad to see the 763 leave but I think that the 339 is the best fit.
I wouldn't order any Boeing product at the moment and the 339 can be delivered pretty soon as well.
 
JohanTally
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:33 pm

I wonder if these might be some D7 whitetails with the quick deliveries
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:37 pm

A nice boost for the neo, anyone know if a 9 abreast economy cabin will be fitted?

Their financial support package was announced today.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/c ... 84.article
 
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LaunchDetected
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:38 pm

Great news. The delivery will come fast which is also good for Airbus.
 
b4thefall
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:45 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
A nice boost for the neo, anyone know if a 9 abreast economy cabin will be fitted?

Their financial support package was announced today.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/c ... 84.article



I doubt Condor would fir 9 abreast on these machines, as their 767 fleet was always 7 abreast, in contrast to many other leisure airlines who as we know, installed the awful 8 abreast config. I've never flown Condor, but from the trip reports I have seen, they seem to position themselves as more of a premium leisure carrier on the long haul routes.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:48 pm

Pedantics here; but it's the A330-900. A330neo is the family comprised of the -800 & -900; no one talks about the Boeing 737-800NG...
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:52 pm

I always thought the A339 would be a great fit for them, no surprise at all for me.

Congratulations for Airbus for shifting some more slots / white-tails
 
trexel94
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:54 pm

Exciting but surprising. While the article didn’t explicitly mention is this what they’re replacing the 767 with? The A339 seems too big for many of their midsized long haul routes. I hope they don’t outfit the frames with 9 abreast.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:55 pm

Pretty large jump in capacity from a 767-300ER to an A330-900. Condor must be expecting very strong traffic growth over the next decades.
 
Opus99
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:59 pm

Mixture of things. The price boeing was giving for the 87 was out of the market and did not even make sense in Covid scenarios. And it was specifically for 787-9. I know that, I can’t quote a source because it’s confidential

Also I’m hearing condor got some EU grants. So it’s not surprising that they’ve ordered A330neos


Regardless, Is this the best option for them? Oh absolutely it is.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:14 pm

LH748 wrote:
It's sad to see the 763 leave but I think that the 339 is the best fit.


More 763s for Amazon.......
 
BangersAndMash
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:20 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Also I’m hearing condor got some EU grants. So it’s not surprising that they’ve ordered A330neos.


The EU money is covid relief and has nothing to do with this order.

Delivery speed has likely been decisive here, with all planes due to be in fleet by late 2024. I doubt Boeing would have been able to match that.
 
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conaly
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:21 pm

JohanTally wrote:
I wonder if these might be some D7 whitetails with the quick deliveries


At least three of them, according to aero.de: https://www.aero.de/news-40371/Condor-w ... 0-900.html
 
Opus99
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:30 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Also I’m hearing condor got some EU grants. So it’s not surprising that they’ve ordered A330neos.


The EU money is covid relief and has nothing to do with this order.

Delivery speed has likely been decisive here, with all planes due to be in fleet by late 2024. I doubt Boeing would have been able to match that.

No money is free money, there are reports that the EU tried to impose an airbus pro rule on LH but they refused. That was covid relief too.

Boeing could not and did not seem interested in matching the airbus offer probably because it might've meant they would sell the aircraft at a loss but the EU influence cannot be discounted

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... onditions/

"It appears the government will want Lufthansa to buy more Airbus aircraft (an Airbus plant is located in Hamburg) at a time when Lufthansa says it will be slimming its fleet when operations restart post Covid-19."
 
majano
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:34 pm

Very impressive on the part of Condor to keep this under the wraps until their own press release announces the deal. A-net often discusses leaked snippets several months before the actual orders are placed.
 
DUSZRH
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:40 pm

majano wrote:
Very impressive on the part of Condor to keep this under the wraps until their own press release announces the deal. A-net often discusses leaked snippets several months before the actual orders are placed.


We discussed this 2 or three months ago.
 
BangersAndMash
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:00 pm

Opus99 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Also I’m hearing condor got some EU grants. So it’s not surprising that they’ve ordered A330neos.


The EU money is covid relief and has nothing to do with this order.

Delivery speed has likely been decisive here, with all planes due to be in fleet by late 2024. I doubt Boeing would have been able to match that.

No money is free money, there are reports that the EU tried to impose an airbus pro rule on LH but they refused. That was covid relief too.

Boeing could not and did not seem interested in matching the airbus offer probably because it might've meant they would sell the aircraft at a loss but the EU influence cannot be discounted

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... onditions/

"It appears the government will want Lufthansa to buy more Airbus aircraft (an Airbus plant is located in Hamburg) at a time when Lufthansa says it will be slimming its fleet when operations restart post Covid-19."


That article is precisely why you shouldn't believe everything you read in the press.

"It appears the government will want" is typical journalistic BS which says absolutely nothing. This is not evidence, it's wishful thinking.
 
Opus99
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:13 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:

The EU money is covid relief and has nothing to do with this order.

Delivery speed has likely been decisive here, with all planes due to be in fleet by late 2024. I doubt Boeing would have been able to match that.

No money is free money, there are reports that the EU tried to impose an airbus pro rule on LH but they refused. That was covid relief too.

Boeing could not and did not seem interested in matching the airbus offer probably because it might've meant they would sell the aircraft at a loss but the EU influence cannot be discounted

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... onditions/

"It appears the government will want Lufthansa to buy more Airbus aircraft (an Airbus plant is located in Hamburg) at a time when Lufthansa says it will be slimming its fleet when operations restart post Covid-19."


That article is precisely why you shouldn't believe everything you read in the press.

"It appears the government will want" is typical journalistic BS which says absolutely nothing. This is not evidence, it's wishful thinking.

There were multiple articles that wrote about it but if you don’t want consider that it could be then that is very rightfully your business
 
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scbriml
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:48 pm

No confirmation from Airbus yet.
 
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LaunchDetected
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:54 pm

scbriml wrote:
No confirmation from Airbus yet.


It’s 22:53 here in France.
Condor posted the information at 17:50, Airbus workers were out of office.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:06 pm

Good news for the 339! Here's hoping they can garner some more orders in the short term to keep the program alive.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:07 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:

That article is precisely why you shouldn't believe everything you read in the press.

"It appears the government will want" is typical journalistic BS which says absolutely nothing. This is not evidence, it's wishful thinking.


I think you have a great point. But, in my personal experience, or rather, opinion, when a reputable paper wrote a line like this, it often means the journalist has shown the source to the editor and the editor decides to publish it in this way to hide the source (maybe the source leaked it illegally or the journalist obtained the story with unconventional means accidentally). So if any enquiry of 'leaks' happen later on, the newspaper can be free of accusation as the newspaper could argue they acted in every way they can to clarify that it was a rumour. I am not saying this is the case here. But when I read a line like this, I would think in the way I described above. It is a personal method. It also matters which newspaper wrote it. You are right to think in your own way. Some are indeed BS as you call it. However, maybe one day you will find another article with this line that might make you think my way of interpret.
 
debonair
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:23 pm

Condor launched own countdown homepage: https://condor-a330neo.com/
 
AaronPMI
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:26 pm

Nicely done Condor
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:33 pm

A good aircraft for Condor since a lot of what they fly is Germany to the Caribbean or to the Maldives, Canary Islands etc. Most within 4000nm where the A339 is very competitive with the 789.

My only concern is the increase in capacity over the 763, but since it is charter carrier perhaps easier to fill?

In any case, congratulations to Condor and Airbus.
 
fcogafa
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:38 pm

Maybe they are coming from leasing companies so Airbus wouldn't be involved in announcing anything.

LaunchDetected wrote:
scbriml wrote:
No confirmation from Airbus yet.


It’s 22:53 here in France.
Condor posted the information at 17:50, Airbus workers were out of office.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:40 pm

Stitch wrote:
Pretty large jump in capacity from a 767-300ER to an A330-900. Condor must be expecting very strong traffic growth over the next decades.


Or a good deal. The choice was between the B788/9 and the A339. I suspect that NTU frames are part of the deal.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:06 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Also I’m hearing condor got some EU grants. So it’s not surprising that they’ve ordered A330neos.

The EU money is covid relief and has nothing to do with this order.

Wiki says:

On 20 May 2021, Attestor Captial acquired 51% of the airline. It announced that it would provide 200 million euros of equity capital and will provide a further 250 million euros to modernise Condor’s long-haul fleet.

In July 2021, the European Commission found an aid package offered by the German State to Condor to be in line with EU State aid rules. The approval of the aid package worth in total US$240 million, and restructuring support of US$378.7 million, was intended enable Condor to return to viability

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condor_(airline)

Seems like it's both government and private money that is making this order possible.

Regardless of funding, it's good news for the A330neo program,
 
A320B737NGCapt
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:16 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Honestly this is what I anticipated, but was hoping for 787s. I suspect Boeing 787 delays hurt (among other things, like price probably).

Deliveries from Fall 2022 through Mid-2024. Pretty fast!


The 787 was never in the running, it was well known the whole Thomas Cook group would transition to the A330neo, and A32X for fleet replacement. This announcement would of happened 18-24 months ago if Thomas Cook hadn’t folded and COVID-19.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see a three class layout, J 12-16 seats, W 28-25 and the rest Economy.
 
airbazar
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:46 am

BangersAndMash wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Also I’m hearing condor got some EU grants. So it’s not surprising that they’ve ordered A330neos.


The EU money is covid relief and has nothing to do with this order.

Delivery speed has likely been decisive here, with all planes due to be in fleet by late 2024. I doubt Boeing would have been able to match that.


Everything is connected, even if it's just optics. It would be a bad look if they took bailout money from the EU (after taking a bridge loan from the German government), then went and bought a brand new fleet of Boeing aircraft. Condor are not as powerful as Lufthansa. They can be persuaded.
Having said that the A339 ticks all the boxes for them and it will make even more sense when they replace the 757's with A321NEOs.
 
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leleko747
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:44 am

Very nice order! Honestly, I was expecting Condor to pick up some of the recently parked 787-9s from Norwegian (or maybe others).
The A330-900 will hopefully be a nice fit for them. Big increase in capacity. I hope then don't end up with too many planes, having trouble to fill some seats!
 
hitower3
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:56 am

tjwgrr wrote:
LH748 wrote:
It's sad to see the 763 leave but I think that the 339 is the best fit.


More 763s for Amazon.......


Condor's 763 fleet is 27-29 years old. Not sure if there is enough life left in them to warrant a freighter conversion.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:03 am

Congratulations to both Airbus and Condor!

Condor/Thomas Cook is/was quite a Airbus heavy user prior to this new deal, so it is not a surprise they will go Airbus. Acquisition cost is lower compared to 787 and some of those A330neos are already ready-made, they just need to put in those seats and do up the operation manual. 757 will go A321LR/ A321XLR and 767 will go A330neo.

Understand that they are many 787s now on used market, however negotating with one owner (be it a lessor or Airbus itself) would be less of an headache compared to mutiple lessors. Not forgetting the reconfiguration process might take time. So I won't read too much into "government bailed out so they must order Airbus products", if that's the case LH would have cancelled their 787 order not topping up their order for 5 more 787 earlier this year.

Not to mention, ops crew are readily available, those from Thomas Cook/ airberlin/ Monarch and returning locals from overseas stint should be looking for new jobs.

This order would clear most of the A330neo NTUs. Some AirAsia Group's NTUs will, rumour at this point, be going Cebu Pacific. They are left with 3 GA A339 NTUs to dealt with.

MSN/ Originally intended customer/ New Customer
1. MSN 1967 AirAsia X – Unallocated (251t prototype)
2. MSN 1966 AirAsia X - Condor
3. MSN 1970 AirAsia X - Cebu Pacific
4. MSN 1971 Thai AirAsia X - Condor
5. MSN 1972 AirAsia X - Condor
6. MSN 1973 AirAsia X - Cebu Pacific
7. MSN 1976 Thai AirAsia X - Cebu Pacific
 
BangersAndMash
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:05 am

airbazar wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Also I’m hearing condor got some EU grants. So it’s not surprising that they’ve ordered A330neos.


The EU money is covid relief and has nothing to do with this order.

Delivery speed has likely been decisive here, with all planes due to be in fleet by late 2024. I doubt Boeing would have been able to match that.


Everything is connected, even if it's just optics. It would be a bad look if they took bailout money from the EU (after taking a bridge loan from the German government), then went and bought a brand new fleet of Boeing aircraft. Condor are not as powerful as Lufthansa. They can be persuaded.
Having said that the A339 ticks all the boxes for them and it will make even more sense when they replace the 757's with A321NEOs.


The bailout money isn't coming directly from the EU. But it must be approved by it, just like the bridge loan, to ensure it does not unduly distort competition.

There is no connection with the aircraft order, and Condor did not need to be persuaded about anything, except in conspiracy theorists' heads. As other posters have pointed out, this is a long planned and expected move.
 
DCA350
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:27 am

Spectacular order.. The NEO was cheaper and available earlier.. Huge capacity increase, does Condor move a lot of freight?
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:32 am

A useful order for an aircraft that needs a helping hand. A shame that Thomas Cook went under, they may well have ordered some as well. Though it may not sell in huge numbers it is notable how many different airlines operate A330neos, and even NTUs seem to be finding new homes.
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:56 am

airbazar wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Also I’m hearing condor got some EU grants. So it’s not surprising that they’ve ordered A330neos.


The EU money is covid relief and has nothing to do with this order.

Delivery speed has likely been decisive here, with all planes due to be in fleet by late 2024. I doubt Boeing would have been able to match that.


Everything is connected, even if it's just optics. It would be a bad look if they took bailout money from the EU (after taking a bridge loan from the German government), then went and bought a brand new fleet of Boeing aircraft. Condor are not as powerful as Lufthansa. They can be persuaded.
Having said that the A339 ticks all the boxes for them and it will make even more sense when they replace the 757's with A321NEOs.


Nope, they can't be persuaded. They simply realized that as standalone leisure carrier with only around 30ish aircraft a 320fam + 330neo combination makes a lot more sense from a training & commonality perspective. And I am sure Airbus was more willing (not desperate, willing) to give Condor a fair price given where the 330 is in the market at the moment.

In any case, congrats to Condor for a much needed fleet update and congrats to Airbus for a much needed boost to the 330 program.
Last edited by Nicoeddf on Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
djb77
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:57 am

I'm pleased by this order. As much as I always enjoyed flying the DE 763s over the years - the last time was in 2017 FRA>LPA - they were getting a little "long in the tooth" but still a comfortable ride in Economy. Somebody asked earlier if 3x3x3 will be offered in economy. The 763 currently have a three class cabin, Business, Premium, and Economy. Like Economy, Premium is also 2x3x2 but simply offers extra legroom and more amenities. I obviously don't know how DE will proceed here but is it realistic to think they might offer?:
Business at 2x2x2
Premium at 2x4x2
Economy at 3x3x3
 
Noshow
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:01 am

Good to see Condor investing in a new fleet. Their 767 got a little too well used.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:43 am

Great order for Condor and Airbus.

There is a lot of talk about the capacity jump - but what are the trip costs of a 763 Vs A339?
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:25 am

Airbus press release

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... ation.html

7 direct orders, the other 9 will be leased.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:35 am

A320B737NGCapt wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Honestly this is what I anticipated, but was hoping for 787s. I suspect Boeing 787 delays hurt (among other things, like price probably).

Deliveries from Fall 2022 through Mid-2024. Pretty fast!


The 787 was never in the running, it was well known the whole Thomas Cook group would transition to the A330neo, and A32X for fleet replacement. This announcement would of happened 18-24 months ago if Thomas Cook hadn’t folded and COVID-19.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see a three class layout, J 12-16 seats, W 28-25 and the rest Economy.

Your wish came true, three class confguration is confirmed, but actual layout is unknown. They will roll out new Business Class, Premium Economy Class and Economy Class. Confirmed in Airbus press release today.

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... ation.html
 
hitower3
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:50 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Your wish came true, three class confguration is confirmed, but actual layout is unknown. They will roll out new Business Class, Premium Economy Class and Economy Class. Confirmed in Airbus press release today.

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... ation.html


Let's try to run the numbers.
The press statement claims 2,1l/pax*100km
Assuming a cruise speed of 850km/h, this would translate into 17,85l/pax*h
Assuming a density for Jet-A1 of 0,804kg/l, this is equivalent to 14,35kg/pax*h
Assuming an hourly consumption of 5,2t/h, we would need 362 passengers to make the figures match.

So, question to the audience: can we put 362 seats into an A330 using 8 abreast rows?

Hendric
 
co38
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:54 am

hitower3 wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:

So, question to the audience: can we put 362 seats into an A330 using 8 abreast rows?

Hendric



Sunclass has 396 seats in 8-seat rows in their (now) single A333.

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Suncl ... -300_A.php
 
Someone83
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:55 am

hitower3 wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Your wish came true, three class confguration is confirmed, but actual layout is unknown. They will roll out new Business Class, Premium Economy Class and Economy Class. Confirmed in Airbus press release today.

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... ation.html


Let's try to run the numbers.
The press statement claims 2,1l/pax*100km
Assuming a cruise speed of 850km/h, this would translate into 17,85l/pax*h
Assuming a density for Jet-A1 of 0,804kg/l, this is equivalent to 14,35kg/pax*h
Assuming an hourly consumption of 5,2t/h, we would need 362 passengers to make the figures match.

So, question to the audience: can we put 362 seats into an A330 using 8 abreast rows?

Hendric


Not with a business and premium economy class. As a single class aircraft: Yes

But as always…..there is slot of PR «adjustments» in these numbers ;)
 
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vhtje
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:57 am

I'm slightly confused. Who owns Condor now? I know the LOT takeover failed, and that Attestor Capital bought 51% in May, but who owns the rest? The German state?
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:01 am

MrHMSH wrote:
A useful order for an aircraft that needs a helping hand. A shame that Thomas Cook went under, they may well have ordered some as well.


Agreed. If it wasn't for the Thomas Cook Group's demise, I had all of their airlines as nailed on to eventually order the A330neo including Condor, as the group-wide fleet was majority Airbus aircraft and there was plenty of data and experience of the A330 as an aircraft given their long presence in the UK and Scandinavian divisions dating back to the days of Airtours/Premiair and MyTravel . It's also proof that the A330neo is far from dead, is attractive to airlines in its own right and is still picking up orders.

Good to see that Condor are moving forward with the pressing need to replace their 767's. If only other governments elsewhere were more willing to support their airlines and the wider travel industry in the same way as Condor have been supported (Johnson and co, I'm looking at you).
 
AaronPMI
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:20 am

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:15 am

vhtje wrote:
I'm slightly confused. Who owns Condor now? I know the LOT takeover failed, and that Attestor Capital bought 51% in May, but who owns the rest? The German state?


SG Luftffahrtgesellschat as trustee owns the other 49 percent.

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