Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
max999
Posts: 1288
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:05 am

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:26 am

Congrats to Condor! I believe this order is a sign that there will be continued competition for long-haul routes from Germany.
 
Breathe
Posts: 921
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:37 pm

Excellent news for Condor and the A330neo.

Not to go too off topic, but I noticed that Condor's and A320 and 757 fleets are around 20 and 22 years old on average respectively. How much more mileage will they get from them before needing to be replaced?
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 14428
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:26 pm

Breathe wrote:
Excellent news for Condor and the A330neo.

Not to go too off topic, but I noticed that Condor's and A320 and 757 fleets are around 20 and 22 years old on average respectively. How much more mileage will they get from them before needing to be replaced?

They've indicated that they're looking to newer A32x to replace all of the above... presumably new A32xNEOs, but haven't really seen that specified yet.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 20322
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:53 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Airbus refers to them, on their website, as A330-800 & A330-900; similar to what they did with the A350XWB when they dropped the "XWB" after a while because there is no other variant.


"neo" and "XWB" are just marketing names used by Airbus. They are not part of the official aircraft type designations and I don't believe they appear in any documentation relating to specific models.

They still refer to the A350XWB when talking about the family generally - as in "XYZ Airlines has selected the A350XWB for its future long-haul needs", but when referring to a specific model, the XWB is dropped - as in "ABC Airways has placed a firm order for 10 A350-900 and six A350-1000."

Here's a perfect example from just a couple of days ago in relation to the A330neo:
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... ation.html
German airline Condor Flugdienst GmbH has chosen the A330neo to renew its long-haul fleet with plans to introduce 16 aircraft of this new and more efficient type. The airline has signed an agreement with Airbus for the purchase of seven Airbus A330neo, and intends to lease a further nine.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 27394
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:50 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
Airbus will be pleased to eliminate its white tails, and see frames stuck with lessors moving onto actual leases.

In the big picture view, the white tails presumably are the early AAX frames and selling them off is a tacit admission that the AAX order for 78 is un-fillable thus a giant hole in the A330neo order book. The AAX order was a great sign of hope that it and other emerging airlines would favor the product and make it a success. Replacing the order with 16 from Condor and lessors is a decent consolation, but just that. I don't think an outfit almost half owned by governmental receivers and who operates in a very competitive market can project the kind of growth that was hoped for from AAX. Even before COVID AAX was saying that they were finding that A321 fit a lot of their route network better than A339 so it's not clear how A339 will do in the post-COVID world. Yet as was written earlier this order at least stops the bleeding and lets the product live on to fight another day, which is a decent result in this pandemic era.
 
User avatar
flee
Posts: 1530
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:14 am

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:01 pm

Revelation wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
Airbus will be pleased to eliminate its white tails, and see frames stuck with lessors moving onto actual leases.

In the big picture view, the white tails presumably are the early AAX frames and selling them off is a tacit admission that the AAX order for 78 is un-fillable thus a giant hole in the A330neo order book. The AAX order was a great sign of hope that it and other emerging airlines would favor the product and make it a success. Replacing the order with 16 from Condor and lessors is a decent consolation, but just that. I don't think an outfit almost half owned by governmental receivers and who operates in a very competitive market can project the kind of growth that was hoped for from AAX. Even before COVID AAX was saying that they were finding that A321 fit a lot of their route network better than A339 so it's not clear how A339 will do in the post-COVID world. Yet as was written earlier this order at least stops the bleeding and lets the product live on to fight another day, which is a decent result in this pandemic era.

I don't think the AAX deal was a big deal except for the total number of units. Remember, part of this order was a conversion from an earlier A333 order. Coupled to the rather leisurely delivery schedule of 5 aircraft p.a. the AAX order was not as spectacular as the headline total order seems to suggest. If AAX survives Covid, they have already said that there will be no A339 deliveries until at least 2027.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 12649
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:23 pm

flee wrote:
Revelation wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
Airbus will be pleased to eliminate its white tails, and see frames stuck with lessors moving onto actual leases.

In the big picture view, the white tails presumably are the early AAX frames and selling them off is a tacit admission that the AAX order for 78 is un-fillable thus a giant hole in the A330neo order book. The AAX order was a great sign of hope that it and other emerging airlines would favor the product and make it a success. Replacing the order with 16 from Condor and lessors is a decent consolation, but just that. I don't think an outfit almost half owned by governmental receivers and who operates in a very competitive market can project the kind of growth that was hoped for from AAX. Even before COVID AAX was saying that they were finding that A321 fit a lot of their route network better than A339 so it's not clear how A339 will do in the post-COVID world. Yet as was written earlier this order at least stops the bleeding and lets the product live on to fight another day, which is a decent result in this pandemic era.

I don't think the AAX deal was a big deal except for the total number of units. Remember, part of this order was a conversion from an earlier A333 order. Coupled to the rather leisurely delivery schedule of 5 aircraft p.a. the AAX order was not as spectacular as the headline total order seems to suggest. If AAX survives Covid, they have already said that there will be no A339 deliveries until at least 2027.

It’s somewhat of a big deal because AAX represents almost a quarter of the order book, and they are hardly the only questionable order at the moment (Iran Air for 28, UFO which is believed to be HNA group for 50). The fact that they were so spread out over ~7-10 years meant that unless Airbus starts to rack up more orders there is going to be some difficult conversations with Air Asia X in a few years.

Also only roughly 11 of the orders were conversions at most. They had an initial order of 55 (after announcing MOU for 50 at launch) then at some point that changed to 66 (I think this might have been conversion) then later purchased a follow up order for 12 (after initial MOU for 34-deciding on adding the XLR instead).
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 23371
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:06 am

Polot wrote:
flee wrote:
Revelation wrote:
In the big picture view, the white tails presumably are the early AAX frames and selling them off is a tacit admission that the AAX order for 78 is un-fillable thus a giant hole in the A330neo order book. The AAX order was a great sign of hope that it and other emerging airlines would favor the product and make it a success. Replacing the order with 16 from Condor and lessors is a decent consolation, but just that. I don't think an outfit almost half owned by governmental receivers and who operates in a very competitive market can project the kind of growth that was hoped for from AAX. Even before COVID AAX was saying that they were finding that A321 fit a lot of their route network better than A339 so it's not clear how A339 will do in the post-COVID world. Yet as was written earlier this order at least stops the bleeding and lets the product live on to fight another day, which is a decent result in this pandemic era.

I don't think the AAX deal was a big deal except for the total number of units. Remember, part of this order was a conversion from an earlier A333 order. Coupled to the rather leisurely delivery schedule of 5 aircraft p.a. the AAX order was not as spectacular as the headline total order seems to suggest. If AAX survives Covid, they have already said that there will be no A339 deliveries until at least 2027.

It’s somewhat of a big deal because AAX represents almost a quarter of the order book, and they are hardly the only questionable order at the moment (Iran Air for 28, UFO which is believed to be HNA group for 50). The fact that they were so spread out over ~7-10 years meant that unless Airbus starts to rack up more orders there is going to be some difficult conversations with Air Asia X in a few years.

Also only roughly 11 of the orders were conversions at most. They had an initial order of 55 (after announcing MOU for 50 at launch) then at some point that changed to 66 (I think this might have been conversion) then later purchased a follow up order for 12 (after initial MOU for 34-deciding on adding the XLR instead).

Unfortunately for the A330NEO, AAX order is the volume order. It kick started the economics of scale.

76+28+50=151 That is a large chunk of 331 on order... Leaving 180 orders. 62 delivered (all daya from wiki), or 118 to go. That creates a problem sooner rather than later...

Lightsaber
 
Scotron12
Posts: 604
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:36 am

lightsaber wrote:
Polot wrote:
flee wrote:
I don't think the AAX deal was a big deal except for the total number of units. Remember, part of this order was a conversion from an earlier A333 order. Coupled to the rather leisurely delivery schedule of 5 aircraft p.a. the AAX order was not as spectacular as the headline total order seems to suggest. If AAX survives Covid, they have already said that there will be no A339 deliveries until at least 2027.

It’s somewhat of a big deal because AAX represents almost a quarter of the order book, and they are hardly the only questionable order at the moment (Iran Air for 28, UFO which is believed to be HNA group for 50). The fact that they were so spread out over ~7-10 years meant that unless Airbus starts to rack up more orders there is going to be some difficult conversations with Air Asia X in a few years.

Also only roughly 11 of the orders were conversions at most. They had an initial order of 55 (after announcing MOU for 50 at launch) then at some point that changed to 66 (I think this might have been conversion) then later purchased a follow up order for 12 (after initial MOU for 34-deciding on adding the XLR instead).

Unfortunately for the A330NEO, AAX order is the volume order. It kick started the economics of scale.

76+28+50=151 That is a large chunk of 331 on order... Leaving 180 orders. 62 delivered (all daya from wiki), or 118 to go. That creates a problem sooner rather than later...

Lightsaber


What problem will it create? Just curious. While I realize all WBs are not hot right now, eventually demand will return.

The A330NEO was a low cost investment for Airbus, so Im sure they are happy with the low production. At least they are shipping product.

Rgds
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2750
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:23 am

Scotron12 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Polot wrote:
It’s somewhat of a big deal because AAX represents almost a quarter of the order book, and they are hardly the only questionable order at the moment (Iran Air for 28, UFO which is believed to be HNA group for 50). The fact that they were so spread out over ~7-10 years meant that unless Airbus starts to rack up more orders there is going to be some difficult conversations with Air Asia X in a few years.

Also only roughly 11 of the orders were conversions at most. They had an initial order of 55 (after announcing MOU for 50 at launch) then at some point that changed to 66 (I think this might have been conversion) then later purchased a follow up order for 12 (after initial MOU for 34-deciding on adding the XLR instead).

Unfortunately for the A330NEO, AAX order is the volume order. It kick started the economics of scale.

76+28+50=151 That is a large chunk of 331 on order... Leaving 180 orders. 62 delivered (all daya from wiki), or 118 to go. That creates a problem sooner rather than later...

Lightsaber


What problem will it create? Just curious. While I realize all WBs are not hot right now, eventually demand will return.

The A330NEO was a low cost investment for Airbus, so Im sure they are happy with the low production. At least they are shipping product.

Rgds


The parts are already on order for the next two years production, swapping spots is difficult unless another carrier wants theirs early, so a lot of money has already been spent. A cancelled order within 2 years of planned delivery basically requires the company to build a 'whitetail' or put it in storage if just deferred. Either of these probably chunk off 10% of the value of the plane, possibly more.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 12649
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:15 am

Scotron12 wrote:
The A330NEO was a low cost investment for Airbus, so Im sure they are happy with the low production. At least they are shipping product.

Rgds

While Airbus might find the low production rate acceptable for the time being I wouldn’t say they are happy with it. The A330neo was a relatively low investment but they didn’t make it to crank out 2-4/month and struggle to gain orders. Make no mistake, they were expecting greater market success than what has so far been achieved (even pre-covid).
 
Scotron12
Posts: 604
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:51 am

Polot wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:
The A330NEO was a low cost investment for Airbus, so Im sure they are happy with the low production. At least they are shipping product.

Rgds

While Airbus might find the low production rate acceptable for the time being I wouldn’t say they are happy with it. The A330neo was a relatively low investment but they didn’t make it to crank out 2-4/month and struggle to gain orders. Make no mistake, they were expecting greater market success than what has so far been achieved (even pre-covid).


Definitely! No one saw this crisis coming, but seems Airbus is having less problems than their main competitor. There are few white tails parked waiting for customers, for one thing. And no prospect of any forward loss that is facing the 787 production unless Boeing are allowed to restart deliveries.

Not to mention that the FAA have not made any decision on the 787 in service fleet.

So, if comparing success, when was the last order for the 777X? According to wiki, 2019.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 12649
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:53 am

Scotron12 wrote:

So, if comparing success, when was the last order for the 777X? According to wiki, 2019.

I don’t recall anyone making comparisons to Boeing/the 777X, but the last 777X order was February of this year when SQ converted 78Xs to 779s.
 
RickNRoll
Posts: 1884
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:30 am

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:38 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Mixture of things. The price boeing was giving for the 87 was out of the market and did not even make sense in Covid scenarios. And it was specifically for 787-9. I know that, I can’t quote a source because it’s confidential



Boeing has to start charging a real price for the 787 rather than pushing out the debt and gaining market share.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 12649
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:02 pm

RickNRoll wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Mixture of things. The price boeing was giving for the 87 was out of the market and did not even make sense in Covid scenarios. And it was specifically for 787-9. I know that, I can’t quote a source because it’s confidential



Boeing has to start charging a real price for the 787 rather than pushing out the debt and gaining market share.

While the drastic cut to the 787 production may have changed things, pre covid Boeing was charging “real prices” for the 787 and making money off delivering them. We know this to be true because the deferred production costs had been steadily decreasing. I’m not sure where you are getting the notion that debt from the 787 was increasing or being “pushed out” from.

Boeing’s biggest issue pre covid was the Max grounding and the growing undelivered inventory, not the 787 program which had been doing well.
 
LX321
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:26 am

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:18 pm

Congratulations to Condor and Airbus. Those 767s are in dire need of replacement.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 27394
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:04 pm

Polot wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:
The A330NEO was a low cost investment for Airbus, so Im sure they are happy with the low production. At least they are shipping product.

While Airbus might find the low production rate acceptable for the time being I wouldn’t say they are happy with it. The A330neo was a relatively low investment but they didn’t make it to crank out 2-4/month and struggle to gain orders. Make no mistake, they were expecting greater market success than what has so far been achieved (even pre-covid).

I think they were disappointed in the sales even pre-covid. None of the EU3, none of the CN3, and only one of the US3 has to be a disappointment IMO. COVID hasn't helped with potential customers like LHG picking up NTU 789s. I think the hope was to clean up in the emerging markets, thus my comments on the collapse of AAX's order being a big setback to the program. They really could use another blue chipper to put in a big order that can drive volume and boost credibility, yet given the international travel situation I don't think we'll see such an order for another two years or more. Till then it'll be in a holding pattern, thus orders like this Condor one is greatly appreciated.
 
Asiaflyer
Posts: 943
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:50 am

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:19 pm

Revelation wrote:
Polot wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:
The A330NEO was a low cost investment for Airbus, so Im sure they are happy with the low production. At least they are shipping product.

While Airbus might find the low production rate acceptable for the time being I wouldn’t say they are happy with it. The A330neo was a relatively low investment but they didn’t make it to crank out 2-4/month and struggle to gain orders. Make no mistake, they were expecting greater market success than what has so far been achieved (even pre-covid).

I think they were disappointed in the sales even pre-covid. None of the EU3, none of the CN3, and only one of the US3 has to be a disappointment IMO. COVID hasn't helped with potential customers like LHG picking up NTU 789s. I think the hope was to clean up in the emerging markets, thus my comments on the collapse of AAX's order being a big setback to the program. They really could use another blue chipper to put in a big order that can drive volume and boost credibility, yet given the international travel situation I don't think we'll see such an order for another two years or more. Till then it'll be in a holding pattern, thus orders like this Condor one is greatly appreciated.

A big blue chip order might be too much to wish for, but a steady stream of smaller orders, particularly from current A330ceo operators, to keep the line going for another 5-10 years is not unrealistic at all.
 
LDRA
Posts: 447
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:01 am

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:30 pm

A330neo program already has its anchor customer - Delta

The one advantage A330neo has over 787 is ability to have common pilot pool with A32x or A330ceo.

So going forward, real market for A330neo is small airlines with either A32x or A330ceo in fleet looking for a few extra widebody frames to compliment their fleet.

Orders are going to be a trickle. No blockbuster orders for a few dozens frames
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2834
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:07 pm

It’s a nice order for a program that desperately needed a lifeline. A new operator is a big plus to the leasing companies.

Others have pointed out the opportunities for the program in the next few years (EI, LH group, etc…) and hopefully this order provides a bridge to letting some of those come to fruition.
Revelation wrote:
Maybe eventually some will come around, or maybe eventually some emerging markets will get hot and it'll be the plane of choice for them, but as a friend of mine likes to say, hope is not a plan. Till that happens I think a neutral observer would say A330neo is not meeting expectations.


Or as Mike Tyson put it “Everyone has a plan ‘till they get punched in the mouth.” Both the 330neo and 77x programs got punched in the mouth by COVID. Whether either can punch back is an open question at this point.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3664
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:23 pm

Alias1024 wrote:
It’s a nice order for a program that desperately needed a lifeline. A new operator is a big plus to the leasing companies.

Others have pointed out the opportunities for the program in the next few years (EI, LH group, etc…) and hopefully this order provides a bridge to letting some of those come to fruition.
Revelation wrote:
Maybe eventually some will come around, or maybe eventually some emerging markets will get hot and it'll be the plane of choice for them, but as a friend of mine likes to say, hope is not a plan. Till that happens I think a neutral observer would say A330neo is not meeting expectations.


Or as Mike Tyson put it “Everyone has a plan ‘till they get punched in the mouth.” Both the 330neo and 77x programs got punched in the mouth by COVID. Whether either can punch back is an open question at this point.


Its another solid customer and fleet. I think both the A330neo and 777X programs will be fine; no, they won't be as successful as their predecessors, but they'll recover.
 
User avatar
Narfish641
Posts: 492
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:14 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:37 am

Congrats to Condor! Can't wait to see them in the air soon and some reviews come out about their product onboard!
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2656
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:41 am

scbriml wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Airbus refers to them, on their website, as A330-800 & A330-900; similar to what they did with the A350XWB when they dropped the "XWB" after a while because there is no other variant.


"neo" and "XWB" are just marketing names used by Airbus. They are not part of the official aircraft type designations and I don't believe they appear in any documentation relating to specific models.

They still refer to the A350XWB when talking about the family generally - as in "XYZ Airlines has selected the A350XWB for its future long-haul needs", but when referring to a specific model, the XWB is dropped - as in "ABC Airways has placed a firm order for 10 A350-900 and six A350-1000."

Here's a perfect example from just a couple of days ago in relation to the A330neo:
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... ation.html
German airline Condor Flugdienst GmbH has chosen the A330neo to renew its long-haul fleet with plans to introduce 16 aircraft of this new and more efficient type. The airline has signed an agreement with Airbus for the purchase of seven Airbus A330neo, and intends to lease a further nine.

A330neo cause they are talking about the family (-800 & -900); they don't mention A330-900neo.
Similarly, Boeing was talking about the 737 NG(-600/-700/-800/-900), but not 737-800NG.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 12166
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:50 am

Please stick to the topic, that being Condor ordering the A330neo, if you wish to discuss other airlines either start a new thread or take it to the A330neo prospective sales thread
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16713
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:35 am

Does anyone have insight into how these aircraft will be financed. As far as I know the sale of Condor to LOT fell through.
 
dstblj52
Posts: 750
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:42 am

zeke wrote:
Does anyone have insight into how these aircraft will be financed. As far as I know the sale of Condor to LOT fell through.

unclear airbus may be financing them in house to get a deal done, which is common in situations where the manufacturer is vulnerable
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3664
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:51 am

zeke wrote:
Does anyone have insight into how these aircraft will be financed. As far as I know the sale of Condor to LOT fell through.


As posted above, 9 are to be leased; the remaining 7 are purchased from Airbus. Further, an investment fund just purchased a majority interest in the airline. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN2D12FD
 
Scotron12
Posts: 604
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:06 am

dstblj52 wrote:
zeke wrote:
Does anyone have insight into how these aircraft will be financed. As far as I know the sale of Condor to LOT fell through.

unclear airbus may be financing them in house to get a deal done, which is common in situations where the manufacturer is vulnerable


Vulnerable to?? Please explain how Airbus is in peril because an airline purchased their product.

Rgds
 
dstblj52
Posts: 750
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:28 am

Scotron12 wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
zeke wrote:
Does anyone have insight into how these aircraft will be financed. As far as I know the sale of Condor to LOT fell through.

unclear airbus may be financing them in house to get a deal done, which is common in situations where the manufacturer is vulnerable


Vulnerable to?? Please explain how Airbus is in peril because an airline purchased their product.

Rgds

the a330 neo program after air asia had one major purchaser delta, you need multiple larger customers to keep the lessors comfortable
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16713
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:11 am

jbs2886 wrote:
zeke wrote:
Does anyone have insight into how these aircraft will be financed. As far as I know the sale of Condor to LOT fell through.


As posted above, 9 are to be leased; the remaining 7 are purchased from Airbus. Further, an investment fund just purchased a majority interest in the airline. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN2D12FD


Excellent that make more sense
 
User avatar
hma350
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:32 am

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:07 am

I look forward to seeing the Neos in SEZ.
 
danipawa
Posts: 591
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:35 am

reports saying they are adding CEO too
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14729
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:37 am

Stitch wrote:
Pretty large jump in capacity from a 767-300ER to an A330-900. Condor must be expecting very strong traffic growth over the next decades.


Not really strong growths needed for now. Leisure flying is much more centralized than it was 10 years ago, where every milk can airport with a 7k feet runway and 1-2 million pax/year had direct flights to a dozen destinations in Spain alone, and a lot more destinations in Turkey, Greece, Portugal, Egypt, Tunisia and so on. Today for most of those you have to go to a rather major airport anyways, so its easier to funnel passengers through Frankfurt.

There probably has not been a cheaper way to get new aircraft on the tarmac than taking white tails of an OEMs hand than in this low interest, low demand time.

Between the probably very low acquisition costs and getting rid of maintaining 25+ year old aircraft Condor probably won´t be all to sad even if passenger numbers just rise marginally for a while, considering that the A339 and 763 have essentially the same fuel burn per aircraft mile, even with the Neo offering room for 40% more passengers.

best regards
Thomas
 
Someone83
Posts: 5499
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:54 am

danipawa wrote:
reports saying they are adding CEO too


I understand they will be leasing to older A330-200, although I'm not sure for how long?
 
NG263
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:56 pm

Someone83 wrote:
danipawa wrote:
reports saying they are adding CEO too


I understand they will be leasing to older A330-200, although I'm not sure for how long?


Plan at the moment is that they will stay for a max. period of 2 years (2024) for crew training and route proving until the fleet rollover is completed. They will be partially modified in the cabin but the product will be the one EY used.
 
debonair
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: Condor orders Airbus A330-900neo

Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:13 pm

NG263 wrote:
They will be partially modified in the cabin but the product will be the one EY used.


This A330, with the ex EY interior and BizClass, would be the perfect match for the new JFK service! Unfortunately, so far the B767 is scheduled to serve N.Y.; which, in my opinion, can't compete against LH hard-and software!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos