Hi all

As we have seen with the Malta Air MAX aircraft being delivered in full Malta air colours and the appearance of BUZZ MAX aircraft at Renton, both these airlines have their own colours. Despite this, to my knowledge and with the subsidiaries being around a decent length of time, at least in Ryanair Sun’s (Now BUZZ) case, there seems to be no movement on any of the existing fleet being repainted. Does anyone know if this is even planned? I would assume so as otherwise why would the MAX aircraft be delivered in full colours, only to stand out from the vast majority of the fleet. Also an interesting point is that the repainting hasn’t started sooner, given the downturn in traffic, it would seem like an ample time to do so. I know repaints cost money but for an airline as supposedly still as cash rich as FR, it shouldn’t be that much of a consideration.

Interested to hear any news, facts or thoughts about this topic.

Ryanair would not waste money doing that. I guess aircraft will repainted in due time (5-10 years, according to what I read here) or, will be disposed even before repaint.

Have all the cash you want, but why spend money on repainting short term leases?

It's like repainting your car while you're waiting for delivery of the new one.

Airlines don't care if it looks "harmonious," this is a profit-making enterprise and paint costs a lot

I can't see FR paying to have anything repainted . Waste of money really.

The flights are all sold as Ryanair anyway, so the wearing of FR livery should not be an issue.

I don’t get this apparent strategy of giving each subsidiary their own unique livery. Just seems to dilute and add confusion around the Ryanair brand. Not cohesive at all. What happens when/if they want to redistribute aircraft through the group. The Malta Air livery is really smart though, would have been a cool special scheme.

a320fan wrote:

I don’t get this apparent strategy of giving each subsidiary their own unique livery. Just seems to dilute and add confusion around the Ryanair brand. Not cohesive at all. What happens when/if they want to redistribute aircraft through the group. The Malta Air livery is really smart though, would have been a cool special scheme.

I have to agree with you. It seems odd that Ryanair is willing to dilute its brand with these different liveries. Most of Malta Air’s fleet is based in Continental Europe, it doesn’t make any sense to fly a Maltese branded aircraft from Berlin to Malaga, IMO passengers will be a bit confused.

The company is also pushing for interoperability of the Irish and Maltese AOCs to gain operational flexibility, and a single brand makes more sense to me.

bluecrew wrote:

Have all the cash you want, but why spend money on repainting short term leases?

It's like repainting your car while you're waiting for delivery of the new one.

Airlines don't care if it looks "harmonious," this is a profit-making enterprise and paint costs a lot

Most of Ryanair fleet is owned (I think around 90%), so it’s not a matter of “short term leases”.

OTOH, I agree that the company is unwilling to spend money for the sake of harmony brand.

a320fan wrote:

I don’t get this apparent strategy of giving each subsidiary their own unique livery. Just seems to dilute and add confusion around the Ryanair brand. Not cohesive at all. What happens when/if they want to redistribute aircraft through the group. The Malta Air livery is really smart though, would have been a cool special scheme.

Complete agree with this. I would've expected to keep one livery across all subsidiaries to ensure full interoperability of their fleet without having to mix brands.

I've been on flights operated by Buzz in the Ryanair livery with a big sticker by the door saying something like 'operated by Buzz'. Crew uniform was similar to FR but different Buzz colours . Flight was Vilnius to STN. Passengers didn't really know/care who was operating it - It's all Ryanair to them

Interestingly, Malta Air's new Maxes has Malta Air signwriting inside the plane and red seatbacks instead of yellow.

jeffrey0032j wrote:

Interestingly, Malta Air's new Maxes has Malta Air signwriting inside the plane and red seatbacks instead of yellow.

Well, safety cards already had MALTA AIR and not RYANAIR marked already on the regular 738s of Malta Air, at least in september last year, last time i flew with them.

I’m surprised Ryanair or Ryanair group does not have a dedicated thread like other airlines, especially during this moment when it is most active airline in Europe.

I don’t get all these different brands. Buzz and Malta Air don’t have their own websites. Is the soft product different? I don’t think so. So what’s the point?

EasyJet has 3 AOCs (UK, CH and AT). But the livery is the same across the 3 airlines.

AIR MALTA wrote:

I don’t get all these different brands. Buzz and Malta Air don’t have their own websites. Is the soft product different? I don’t think so. So what’s the point?

EasyJet has 3 AOCs (UK, CH and AT). But the livery is the same across the 3 airlines.

Brand diversification, flexibility and resilience . Bringing the Maltese government onboard as a strategic partner.

Easyjet aren't exactly industry leading or innovative ( they've only now sorted out their baggage policy many many years after FR). FR is always the dominant and lead LCC European airline although in this instance they are copying IAG to a certain extent

Galwayman wrote:

AIR MALTA wrote:

I don’t get all these different brands. Buzz and Malta Air don’t have their own websites. Is the soft product different? I don’t think so. So what’s the point?

EasyJet has 3 AOCs (UK, CH and AT). But the livery is the same across the 3 airlines.

Brand diversification, flexibility and resilience . Bringing the Maltese government onboard as a strategic partner.

Easyjet aren't exactly industry leading or innovative ( they've only now sorted out their baggage policy many many years after FR). FR is always the dominant and lead LCC European airline although in this instance they are copying IAG to a certain extent

That would make sense to the extent the brands operated differently/somewhat separately, but they don't really. Effectively they are just operating different liveries, which actually hurts the branding efforts IMO. Nevertheless, perhaps it is a preview to some efforts to diversify.

jbs2886 wrote:

Galwayman wrote:

AIR MALTA wrote:

I don’t get all these different brands. Buzz and Malta Air don’t have their own websites. Is the soft product different? I don’t think so. So what’s the point?

EasyJet has 3 AOCs (UK, CH and AT). But the livery is the same across the 3 airlines.

Brand diversification, flexibility and resilience . Bringing the Maltese government onboard as a strategic partner.

Easyjet aren't exactly industry leading or innovative ( they've only now sorted out their baggage policy many many years after FR). FR is always the dominant and lead LCC European airline although in this instance they are copying IAG to a certain extent

That would make sense to the extent the brands operated differently/somewhat separately, but they don't really. Effectively they are just operating different liveries, which actually hurts the branding efforts IMO. Nevertheless, perhaps it is a preview to some efforts to diversify.

seperate union contracts also remember

dstblj52 wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

Galwayman wrote:

Brand diversification, flexibility and resilience . Bringing the Maltese government onboard as a strategic partner.

Easyjet aren't exactly industry leading or innovative ( they've only now sorted out their baggage policy many many years after FR). FR is always the dominant and lead LCC European airline although in this instance they are copying IAG to a certain extent

That would make sense to the extent the brands operated differently/somewhat separately, but they don't really. Effectively they are just operating different liveries, which actually hurts the branding efforts IMO. Nevertheless, perhaps it is a preview to some efforts to diversify.

seperate union contracts also remember

Well that’s pretty much the whole point in having these separate AOCs. Until now it’s been practically invisible to the customer apart from a little sticker next to the door or a label on the safety card.

dstblj52 wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

Galwayman wrote:

Brand diversification, flexibility and resilience . Bringing the Maltese government onboard as a strategic partner.

Easyjet aren't exactly industry leading or innovative ( they've only now sorted out their baggage policy many many years after FR). FR is always the dominant and lead LCC European airline although in this instance they are copying IAG to a certain extent

That would make sense to the extent the brands operated differently/somewhat separately, but they don't really. Effectively they are just operating different liveries, which actually hurts the branding efforts IMO. Nevertheless, perhaps it is a preview to some efforts to diversify.

seperate union contracts also remember

That’s relevant to separate AOCs, not branding.

jbs2886 wrote:

Galwayman wrote:

AIR MALTA wrote:

I don’t get all these different brands. Buzz and Malta Air don’t have their own websites. Is the soft product different? I don’t think so. So what’s the point?

EasyJet has 3 AOCs (UK, CH and AT). But the livery is the same across the 3 airlines.

Brand diversification, flexibility and resilience . Bringing the Maltese government onboard as a strategic partner.

Easyjet aren't exactly industry leading or innovative ( they've only now sorted out their baggage policy many many years after FR). FR is always the dominant and lead LCC European airline although in this instance they are copying IAG to a certain extent

That would make sense to the extent the brands operated differently/somewhat separately, but they don't really. Effectively they are just operating different liveries, which actually hurts the branding efforts IMO. Nevertheless, perhaps it is a preview to some efforts to diversify.

At least the Malta Air livery is amazing. Would like to buy an airplane model with that livery but can’t find one for now.

Galwayman wrote:

AIR MALTA wrote:

I don’t get all these different brands. Buzz and Malta Air don’t have their own websites. Is the soft product different? I don’t think so. So what’s the point?

EasyJet has 3 AOCs (UK, CH and AT). But the livery is the same across the 3 airlines.

Brand diversification, flexibility and resilience . Bringing the Maltese government onboard as a strategic partner.

Easyjet aren't exactly industry leading or innovative ( they've only now sorted out their baggage policy many many years after FR). FR is always the dominant and lead LCC European airline although in this instance they are copying IAG to a certain extent

Brand diversification? What exactly IS that? Why would you do it? Top 3 gains / benefits of brand dilution? They're not copying IAG as they have three legacy super-brands in BA/IB/EI and 2 forgetables in VY/Level. Ryanair have an existing pan European leading brand, there's no sense in needless confusion in the branding. I get the union bashing and multiple AOCs but no idea why Malta Air needs a hundred + branded aircraft. Makes more sense to have 9H- Ryanair aircraft operated by Malta Air IMHO.

I wonder if only the first few will be so branded and the remainder will be Ryanair?

Ryanair uses Malta Air, so the flight crew can pay their income taxes and social security contributions in their country of residence. And the country of Malta wants more publicity as the country is not very known in Europe.

Malta Air planes aren't based only in Malta, but also in mainland Europe. So it's just normal to fly Malta Air without departing or arriving in Malta.

Ryanair created Buzz, to better compete with Wizz Air in the East European market. It is also supposed to be a charter airline.

Ryanair also uses the different brands to let them compete against each other.

Ryanair will not repaint planes they already have because it does not makes much sense to spend money for that. Remember, it's an ULCC.

Even though going to be delivered for Buzz or Malta Air, not all of the new aircraft will be painted in the according livery. Some of them will be painted in the Ryanair livery. One manager said that's because it will be easier to exchange them in the whole fleet. And the brands must compete with each other to get new MAX aicraft.

Inside an Buzz livery plane it is also supposed to look different:

picture: onemileatatime.com

MCTSET wrote:

I’m surprised Ryanair or Ryanair group does not have a dedicated thread like other airlines, especially during this moment when it is most active airline in Europe.

Are Ryanair news so interesting? Ryanair is mostly covered in the news regarding low worker's rights. There is no vision. They don't want to go transatlantic. They don't want to go east. They don't want to go south-east. The last I read is, they want to expand to Africa from Malta. Hm let's see. Their 2300nmi range does not reach many interesting countries.

In contrast to that, Wizz Air expands in Abu Dhabi. They say to have 100 planes based there in 15 years. May come true or not. But at least that's a vision. And they are willing to open up a subsidiary in another non-EU country. Wizz also expands into Western Europe starting leisure routes. Expanding in UK featuring Gemma Collins and in Italy with new bases and domestic routes. They opened up a lot of new bases during the infestation. Interesting to see how it works out.

And making announcements to fly BUD-TSE-PEK. Very interesting. Also the idea to fly from BUD to Islamabad. Maybe via AUH, maybe not.

airlinenavigato wrote:

MCTSET wrote:

I’m surprised Ryanair or Ryanair group does not have a dedicated thread like other airlines, especially during this moment when it is most active airline in Europe.

Are Ryanair news so interesting? Ryanair is mostly covered in the news regarding low worker's rights. There is no vision. They don't want to go transatlantic. They don't want to go east. They don't want to go south-east. The last I read is, they want to expand to Africa from Malta. Hm let's see. Their 2300nmi range does not reach many interesting countries.

In contrast to that, Wizz Air expands in Abu Dhabi. They say to have 100 planes based there in 15 years. May come true or not. But at least that's a vision. And they are willing to open up a subsidiary in another non-EU country. Wizz also expands into Western Europe starting leisure routes. Expanding in UK featuring Gemma Collins and in Italy with new bases and domestic routes. They opened up a lot of new bases during the infestation. Interesting to see how it works out.

And making announcements to fly BUD-TSE-PEK. Very interesting. Also the idea to fly from BUD to Islamabad. Maybe via AUH, maybe not.

FR are Europe's most successful airline by most metrics and are set for massive expansion . FR definitely deserve a dedicated thread , the Irish thread is just full of tedious EI entitlement waffle ..... First topic could be how far will Wizz have to run to get away from FR ( thats their vision essentially ...run away, run away.... Delhi/Bkk/islamabad ...

airlinenavigato wrote:

MCTSET wrote:

I’m surprised Ryanair or Ryanair group does not have a dedicated thread like other airlines, especially during this moment when it is most active airline in Europe.

Are Ryanair news so interesting? Ryanair is mostly covered in the news regarding low worker's rights. There is no vision. They don't want to go transatlantic. They don't want to go east. They don't want to go south-east. The last I read is, they want to expand to Africa from Malta. Hm let's see. Their 2300nmi range does not reach many interesting countries.

In contrast to that, Wizz Air expands in Abu Dhabi. They say to have 100 planes based there in 15 years. May come true or not. But at least that's a vision. And they are willing to open up a subsidiary in another non-EU country. Wizz also expands into Western Europe starting leisure routes. Expanding in UK featuring Gemma Collins and in Italy with new bases and domestic routes. They opened up a lot of new bases during the infestation. Interesting to see how it works out.

And making announcements to fly BUD-TSE-PEK. Very interesting. Also the idea to fly from BUD to Islamabad. Maybe via AUH, maybe not.

If you want to talk about workers rights low wizz seems like a good place to start....

Galwayman wrote:

FR are Europe's most successful airline by most metrics

Surely they are number 1 regarding having the most passengers now. Connecting Aqaba, Yerevan, Beirut, Amman, Eilat and Tel Aviv was cool. But what exciting new do they want to do in the future?

Statement like the shown here were at least a funny vision:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oJCuYNvrE8g
MOL hasn't been funny for quite some time now.

Galwayman wrote:

[FR is] set for massive expansion .

A massive expansion inside of Europe? Boring!!

Galwayman wrote:

FR definitely deserve a dedicated thread , the Irish thread is just full of tedious EI entitlement waffle ..... First topic could be how far will Wizz have to run to get away from FR ( thats their vision essentially ...run away, run away.... Delhi/Bkk/islamabad ...

That's the marketing opinion of MOL
Wizz went into the Western European market of Ryanair. New bases in UK, Italy and DTM. So it's rather confrontation than running away.

You can ask the mods to open up a Ryanair thread. Unlikely, put possibly there could be something interesting

Galwayman wrote:

airlinenavigato wrote:

MCTSET wrote:

I’m surprised Ryanair or Ryanair group does not have a dedicated thread like other airlines, especially during this moment when it is most active airline in Europe.

Are Ryanair news so interesting? Ryanair is mostly covered in the news regarding low worker's rights. There is no vision. They don't want to go transatlantic. They don't want to go east. They don't want to go south-east. The last I read is, they want to expand to Africa from Malta. Hm let's see. Their 2300nmi range does not reach many interesting countries.

In contrast to that, Wizz Air expands in Abu Dhabi. They say to have 100 planes based there in 15 years. May come true or not. But at least that's a vision. And they are willing to open up a subsidiary in another non-EU country. Wizz also expands into Western Europe starting leisure routes. Expanding in UK featuring Gemma Collins and in Italy with new bases and domestic routes. They opened up a lot of new bases during the infestation. Interesting to see how it works out.

And making announcements to fly BUD-TSE-PEK. Very interesting. Also the idea to fly from BUD to Islamabad. Maybe via AUH, maybe not.

FR are Europe's most successful airline by most metrics and are set for massive expansion . FR definitely deserve a dedicated thread , the Irish thread is just full of tedious EI entitlement waffle ..... First topic could be how far will Wizz have to run to get away from FR ( thats their vision essentially ...run away, run away.... Delhi/Bkk/islamabad ...

I agree Ryanair are continuing growth and announcing new routes. They are the biggest airline in Europe and deserve there own thread to discuss, they are even a group now with multiple brands and operations, I would say they are far from lacking ambition and vision, not every airline needs to throw a narrow body across the Atlantic to show ambition.

airlinenavigato wrote:

Galwayman wrote:

FR are Europe's most successful airline by most metrics

Surely they are number 1 regarding having the most passengers now. Connecting Aqaba, Yerevan, Beirut, Amman, Eilat and Tel Aviv was cool. But what exciting new do they want to do in the future?

Statement like the shown here were at least a funny vision:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oJCuYNvrE8g
MOL hasn't been funny for quite some time now.

Galwayman wrote:

[FR is] set for massive expansion .

A massive expansion inside of Europe? Boring!!

Galwayman wrote:

FR definitely deserve a dedicated thread , the Irish thread is just full of tedious EI entitlement waffle ..... First topic could be how far will Wizz have to run to get away from FR ( thats their vision essentially ...run away, run away.... Delhi/Bkk/islamabad ...

That's the marketing opinion of MOL
Wizz went into the Western European market of Ryanair. New bases in UK, Italy and DTM. So it's rather confrontation than running away.

You can ask the mods to open up a Ryanair thread. Unlikely, put possibly there could be something interesting

Let’s see how brave Wizz Air when they finally announce a flight to the real home of Ryanair

eicvd wrote:

Let’s see how brave Wizz Air when they finally announce a flight to the real home of Ryanair

That would be a battle.

It would be also interesting Malta Air flying from Greece, Cyprus, Neaples, Palermo and Malta to Dubai. As Dubai is more appealing than Abu Dhabi.

jbs2886 wrote:

Galwayman wrote:

AIR MALTA wrote:

I don’t get all these different brands. Buzz and Malta Air don’t have their own websites. Is the soft product different? I don’t think so. So what’s the point?

EasyJet has 3 AOCs (UK, CH and AT). But the livery is the same across the 3 airlines.

Brand diversification, flexibility and resilience . Bringing the Maltese government onboard as a strategic partner.

Easyjet aren't exactly industry leading or innovative ( they've only now sorted out their baggage policy many many years after FR). FR is always the dominant and lead LCC European airline although in this instance they are copying IAG to a certain extent

That would make sense to the extent the brands operated differently/somewhat separately, but they don't really. Effectively they are just operating different liveries, which actually hurts the branding efforts IMO. Nevertheless, perhaps it is a preview to some efforts to diversify.

In fact they are.
Malta Air is used for bases in Malta, Germany, Italy and France. This is to offer employees local contracts as they claim, they cannot do so with "mainline" Ryanair due to the Irish law. Probably they'll have to extend this scheme into countries where they have employment conflicts with Irish labour contacts.
Buzz is just Ryanair Sun. They were in fact a separate brand before.
Lauda is their Airbus Airline. If there is lack of Boeing crew, they can always fish from the Airbus pond.
Ryanair UK , the one having that "flexibility" to swap planes around is having trouble with the UK authorities as they are using Irish capacity (wetleasing from "mainline FR") way too much.

Aisak wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

Galwayman wrote:

Brand diversification, flexibility and resilience . Bringing the Maltese government onboard as a strategic partner.

Easyjet aren't exactly industry leading or innovative ( they've only now sorted out their baggage policy many many years after FR). FR is always the dominant and lead LCC European airline although in this instance they are copying IAG to a certain extent

That would make sense to the extent the brands operated differently/somewhat separately, but they don't really. Effectively they are just operating different liveries, which actually hurts the branding efforts IMO. Nevertheless, perhaps it is a preview to some efforts to diversify.

In fact they are.
Malta Air is used for bases in Malta, Germany, Italy and France. This is to offer employees local contracts as they claim, they cannot do so with "mainline" Ryanair due to the Irish law. Probably they'll have to extend this scheme into countries where they have employment conflicts with Irish labour contacts.
Buzz is just Ryanair Sun. They were in fact a separate brand before.
Lauda is their Airbus Airline. If there is lack of Boeing crew, they can always fish from the Airbus pond.
Ryanair UK , the one having that "flexibility" to swap planes around is having trouble with the UK authorities as they are using Irish capacity (wetleasing from "mainline FR") way too much.

That is the AOCs operating differently, not the branding. No one disputes the AOCs have different purposes. The branding is the customer-facing aspect and nothing you describes impacts the brand the customer sees. Each airline is effectively just operate Ryanair flights booked on Ryanair, there is no separate booking or otherwise - its all Ryanair.

I liked a recent MOL interview.

"Executives won’t be swanning off to Bali for a two-day conference any time soon, if ever. But smaller businesses are desperate to meet suppliers and customers in person again."

"The idea that trains are somehow going to replace flights from Frankfurt to Madrid or from London to the Balearics is just nonsense."

All his future predictions fit the Ryanair business model

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit ... ew-8027726

jbs2886 wrote:

That is the AOCs operating differently, not the branding. No one disputes the AOCs have different purposes. The branding is the customer-facing aspect and nothing you describes impacts the brand the customer sees. Each airline is effectively just operate Ryanair flights booked on Ryanair, there is no separate booking or otherwise - its all Ryanair.

Even the plane is in the Ryanair livery, in their flight search it's stated "operated by ...". The crew says "operated by..." on board. And the safety cards are from the AOC operating the plane.

The Lauda brand is surely kept as a thank you to Niki Lauda, because he helped Ryanair to get a piece of Air Berlin. And as having Airbus in their fleet, there is more purchasing power over Boeing. In a negotiation with Boeing for buying new 737, MOL may only need to say "ok more planes for Lauda" and he gets some percent discount of new 737 aircraft ^^.
Niki Lauda was known to be thrifty, so it fits regarding the brand. Niki Lauda was popular in Austria. Austrians therefore may like the brand and are more likely to fly with it.

The Buzz livery might be used to upset Wizz Air a bit. Because the names are somewhat similar. Wizz Air already sued FR because of the name Buzz. I can imagine that the people of Poland and Hungary like it to fly with an airline from there. Ryanair had some difficulties to get into these markets and into Eastern Europe. Wizz Air was more successful there. Ryanair may try to get more ground with Buzz in these markets. With the Buzz livery the crew might also be remembered to not have the right for the same pay of the Ryanair crew...

For Malta Air I already explained.

The different brandings may have the function to let the crew members know, that it's not that easy or advisable to join a strike of another brand, because the brands are in a competition with each other.

With only one (visible) AOC, less competition under each other and more/bigger strikes.

airlinenavigato wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

That is the AOCs operating differently, not the branding. No one disputes the AOCs have different purposes. The branding is the customer-facing aspect and nothing you describes impacts the brand the customer sees. Each airline is effectively just operate Ryanair flights booked on Ryanair, there is no separate booking or otherwise - its all Ryanair.

Even the plane is in the Ryanair livery.

Huh? The discussion is on the fact there are Malta Air and Buzz liveries, NOT Ryanair. There is not only one visible brand - its 4 now. So, no, the plane is not in the Ryanair livery. Hence my comments.

This is all about union contracts, bargaining power and nothing to do with brand diversification.

In the past Ryanair have been on legally shaky ground by closing a base, or threatening to, and then wanting to bring in Buzz/Malta Air on cheaper T&Cs… especially with another set of identically branded aircraft - aside from an “Operated by ….” sticker by the L1 door.

Now with separate branding, it will be easier for them to claim that XXX is no longer a Ryanair base. But from this date we will be opening a new base for Malta Air or Buzz or Lauda. With separate branding and their own websites, it’s easier for them to claim that they’re not just replacing a base with cheaper labour. Despite the fact that I would assume the majority of passengers are still booking Ryanair flights via the Ryanair website.

Since it’s only new aircraft with separate branding, they are doing it for free. Since the paint is included in the cost of the aircraft. And Ryanair don’t normally keep aircraft long enough to repaint them. Will be interesting to see what happens in years to come if aircraft get swapped around… but I suspect we will see Malta Air aircraft with “Operated by Ryanair” stickers by the door.

So it’s all about reducing staff costs, by attempting to reduce the bargaining power of individual employee groups. Threaten to close the base. Ryanair no longer fly here. But Buzz Air do (with Ryanair codeshare)

As people note, quite different to TUI and easyJet who move aircraft around regularly with nobody noticing due to identical branding.

So are we really suggesting Ryanair are going to be flying hundreds of daily flights in Malta Air livery that don't land in Malta? I know Ducksy loves to be different and pretend that marketing is unnecessary but this just seems senseless to me.
Options
1) Use Malta Air and Buzz to keep group costs down and create new branding for niche local markets whilst flying majority of flights as the group branded Ryanair on each AOC. Costs kept down and workforce divided
2) Have loads of interEurpean flying branded as MaltaAir for no obvious reason.

BTW if jetBlue can make FrenchBlue rebrand to FrenchBee, why has Air Malta not raised Hell with Ryanair ripping off their much more similar branding?

skipness1E wrote:

So are we really suggesting Ryanair are going to be flying hundreds of daily flights in Malta Air livery that don't land in Malta? I know Ducksy loves to be different and pretend that marketing is unnecessary but this just seems senseless to me.
Options
1) Use Malta Air and Buzz to keep group costs down and create new branding for niche local markets whilst flying majority of flights as the group branded Ryanair on each AOC. Costs kept down and workforce divided
2) Have loads of interEurpean flying branded as MaltaAir for no obvious reason.

BTW if jetBlue can make FrenchBlue rebrand to FrenchBee, why has Air Malta not raised Hell with Ryanair ripping off their much more similar branding?

"Air Malta, which began operations in 1974, is the national carrier of Malta and is majority owned by the Maltese Government."
"On 9 June 2019, Ryanair announced together with the Government of Malta that they would set up a subsidiary airline called Malta Air"

The Maltese Government has interests in both airlines success and is not going encourage conflict between them.
Plus Air Malta is not in a good way financially, the government may just close it down and go with Malta Air as the main local airline.

GCT64 wrote:

skipness1E wrote:

So are we really suggesting Ryanair are going to be flying hundreds of daily flights in Malta Air livery that don't land in Malta? I know Ducksy loves to be different and pretend that marketing is unnecessary but this just seems senseless to me.
Options
1) Use Malta Air and Buzz to keep group costs down and create new branding for niche local markets whilst flying majority of flights as the group branded Ryanair on each AOC. Costs kept down and workforce divided
2) Have loads of interEurpean flying branded as MaltaAir for no obvious reason.

BTW if jetBlue can make FrenchBlue rebrand to FrenchBee, why has Air Malta not raised Hell with Ryanair ripping off their much more similar branding?

"Air Malta, which began operations in 1974, is the national carrier of Malta and is majority owned by the Maltese Government."
"On 9 June 2019, Ryanair announced together with the Government of Malta that they would set up a subsidiary airline called Malta Air"

The Maltese Government has interests in both airlines success and is not going encourage conflict between them.
Plus Air Malta is not in a good way financially, the government may just close it down and go with Malta Air as the main local airline.

And the planes that are not flying to/from Malta act as a giant tourism billboard for Malta as a country.

skipness1E wrote:

BTW if jetBlue can make FrenchBlue rebrand to FrenchBee, why has Air Malta not raised Hell with Ryanair ripping off their much more similar branding?

I've wondered this too. It's somewhat absurd to me that jetBlue can claim exclusive branding rights to a color (though, the similar scriptio continua manner in which jetBlue and FrenchBlue were used makes a stronger case). However; claiming exclusive use of "Malta" in the context of carriers both possessing Maltese AOCs and primarily serving the country seems like a stretch too far.

iflyswa

skipness1E wrote:

So are we really suggesting Ryanair are going to be flying hundreds of daily flights in Malta Air livery that don't land in Malta? I know Ducksy loves to be different and pretend that marketing is unnecessary but this just seems senseless to me.
Options
1) Use Malta Air and Buzz to keep group costs down and create new branding for niche local markets whilst flying majority of flights as the group branded Ryanair on each AOC. Costs kept down and workforce divided
2) Have loads of interEurpean flying branded as MaltaAir for no obvious reason.

This is my question as well. I see no reason to fly with the Malta Air brand all over Europe and dilute the Ryanair branding.
I know most passengers couldn’t care less about the aircraft livery, but IMO this will still create confusion.

Regarding the labor divide, you don’t need different liveries, just different AOCs, so I don’t buy that branding as Buzz or Malta is done because of this.

I believe that, in the future, most Malta Air Maxes will be delivered in the Ryanair livery.

jeffrey0032j wrote:

GCT64 wrote:

skipness1E wrote:

So are we really suggesting Ryanair are going to be flying hundreds of daily flights in Malta Air livery that don't land in Malta? I know Ducksy loves to be different and pretend that marketing is unnecessary but this just seems senseless to me.
Options
1) Use Malta Air and Buzz to keep group costs down and create new branding for niche local markets whilst flying majority of flights as the group branded Ryanair on each AOC. Costs kept down and workforce divided
2) Have loads of interEurpean flying branded as MaltaAir for no obvious reason.

BTW if jetBlue can make FrenchBlue rebrand to FrenchBee, why has Air Malta not raised Hell with Ryanair ripping off their much more similar branding?

"Air Malta, which began operations in 1974, is the national carrier of Malta and is majority owned by the Maltese Government."
"On 9 June 2019, Ryanair announced together with the Government of Malta that they would set up a subsidiary airline called Malta Air"

The Maltese Government has interests in both airlines success and is not going encourage conflict between them.
Plus Air Malta is not in a good way financially, the government may just close it down and go with Malta Air as the main local airline.

And the planes that are not flying to/from Malta act as a giant tourism billboard for Malta as a country.

And worth noting that there is no overlap between destination served by Air Malta and Malta Air. I guess the idea from the Maltese government is to make Malta Air do all the cheap and dirty work and keep Air Malta for strategic more expensive routes like Heathrow, Amsterdam and Frankfurt.

SIVB wrote:

skipness1E wrote:

So are we really suggesting Ryanair are going to be flying hundreds of daily flights in Malta Air livery that don't land in Malta? I know Ducksy loves to be different and pretend that marketing is unnecessary but this just seems senseless to me.
Options
1) Use Malta Air and Buzz to keep group costs down and create new branding for niche local markets whilst flying majority of flights as the group branded Ryanair on each AOC. Costs kept down and workforce divided
2) Have loads of interEurpean flying branded as MaltaAir for no obvious reason.

This is my question as well. I see no reason to fly with the Malta Air brand all over Europe and dilute the Ryanair branding.
I know most passengers couldn’t care less about the aircraft livery, but IMO this will still create confusion.

Regarding the labor divide, you don’t need different liveries, just different AOCs, so I don’t buy that branding as Buzz or Malta is done because of this.

I believe that, in the future, most Malta Air Maxes will be delivered in the Ryanair livery.

Yup, this is what I believe too, been wrong before but Malta Air with 100+ airframes flying the likes of Germany-France daily for Ryanair would be a marketing thesis for students the world over....

Does anyone know why some Ryanair aircraft have winglets painted differently to the standard FR winglet? The Ryanair titles are not applied to either side of this winglet. It’s often the case that I see a Ryanair aircraft with two of the different winglets. Is this an older style of winglet or possibly a replacement? I would appreciate if anybody knew the reason for this. Photos linked below.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... f6qhMtA%3D

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... f6qhMtA%3D

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... f6qhMtA%3D

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... AlJWMos%3D

The first two photos are from 2006, so I’m not sure they at all reflect any of the current fleet.

a320fan wrote:

The first two photos are from 2006, so I’m not sure they at all reflect any of the current fleet.

More recent photos linked below. Thanks again.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... Zalh9VzS62

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... ArfVL5E%3D

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... ArfVL5E%3D

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... Lwo7L9Y%3D

EI757 wrote:

a320fan wrote:

The first two photos are from 2006, so I’m not sure they at all reflect any of the current fleet.

More recent photos linked below. Thanks again.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... Zalh9VzS62

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... ArfVL5E%3D

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... ArfVL5E%3D

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... Lwo7L9Y%3D

Interesting find! I haven't seen them painted like that in a while!

I've also noticed the MAX aircraft now have yellow added to the lower section of the winglets.
Is this to have one less thing to paint if switching between airlines in the group?


Blue lowers:



Yellow lowers:




DL752

DL752 wrote:

EI757 wrote:

a320fan wrote:

The first two photos are from 2006, so I’m not sure they at all reflect any of the current fleet.

More recent photos linked below. Thanks again.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... Zalh9VzS62

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... ArfVL5E%3D

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... ArfVL5E%3D

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... Lwo7L9Y%3D

Interesting find! I haven't seen them painted like that in a while!

I've also noticed the MAX aircraft now have yellow added to the lower section of the winglets.
Is this to have one less thing to paint if switching between airlines in the group?


Blue lowers:



Yellow lowers:




DL752

Quite right. The first six Ryanair MAX aircraft had blue on the lower winglet and blue wheel caps but the rest of them have yellow lowers as you have correctly pointed out. I’m not aware of the reason for this change however I think the yellow looks rather off on the Malta Air aircraft.

EI757 wrote:

however I think the yellow looks rather off on the Malta Air aircraft.

I absolutely agree, it looks absymal! I wish they were grey, it would really make for a stunning livery!!

AZa346 wrote:

EI757 wrote:

however I think the yellow looks rather off on the Malta Air aircraft.

I absolutely agree, it looks absymal! I wish they were grey, it would really make for a stunning livery!!

It just does not fit in to the rest of the design. I really don’t understand the need for them to be yellow. Possibly, as mentioned earlier it may be painted yellow so it can be swapped between Ryanair group fleets but keeping the lower winglet white or grey as you said would have been my preferred option.

EI757 wrote:

Does anyone know why some Ryanair aircraft have winglets painted differently to the standard FR winglet? The Ryanair titles are not applied to either side of this winglet. It’s often the case that I see a Ryanair aircraft with two of the different winglets. Is this an older style of winglet or possibly a replacement? I would appreciate if anybody knew the reason for this. Photos linked below.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... f6qhMtA%3D

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... f6qhMtA%3D

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... f6qhMtA%3D

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair ... AlJWMos%3D

The ones without the titles were retrofitted to the B738 fleet whereas the ones with titles came from the factory as new build B73Hs with them installed. Over time they mix and match in maintenance and even today it's not uncommon to see one winglet without titles.