Hi A.Netter’s,

Welcome to the Australian Aviation Thread - August 2021.

Link to July 2021 thread below;

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1462313

EK413

freshwater wrote:

Virgin Australia has just launched a refresh of their website. Not sure how I feel about it from a user experience point of view, much more clicking through ala Jetstar. They are definitely striving to differentiate themselves from the pre COVID VA.

It doesn't seem to be all that much different to when I was last checking it out, if the truth be told. What exactly has changed?

Looks like The Wallabies have travelled to New Zealand on a chartered Air New Zealand A320 for the up coming Bledisloe Cup. I saw a short video on news.com

qf2048 wrote:

Looks like The Wallabies have travelled to New Zealand on a chartered Air New Zealand A320 for the up coming Bledisloe Cup. I saw a short video on news.com

I that is along time for the Wallabies to commit to being in New Zealand, I take the Perth game in the middle has been axed. When the Tasman Bubble closure announcement was made, the PM state of the Wallabies could get into New Zealand within the next 7 days they would make an exemption for them to travel to New Zealand. But after the 7days is up, there would be no special treatment.

Would have though they would of chartered an QF 738 although? Maybe to do with avoiding local crew in Australia, which would be at higher risk of being Covid positive.

Melbourne Airport has finally awarded tenders for the construction of the new link between T3 and T4. Works are scheduled over the next year after which pax from T3 will move down a new ramp from the check-in hall and pass through the T4 security area and enter into the current T4 retail area. A enhanced link back to Concourse E with additional retail and food will also be constructed. Existing security points into Concourse E will finally be removed meaning most retail and lounges will be airside. No word yet on timing but the overall plan had a premium entry direct from the T3 departure hall into The Lounge.

tullamarine wrote:

Melbourne Airport has finally awarded tenders for the construction of the new link between T3 and T4. Works are scheduled over the next year after which pax from T3 will move down a new ramp from the check-in hall and pass through the T4 security area and enter into the current T4 retail area. A enhanced link back to Concourse E with additional retail and food will also be constructed. Existing security points into Concourse E will finally be removed meaning most retail and lounges will be airside. No word yet on timing but the overall plan had a premium entry direct from the T3 departure hall into The Lounge.

Amazing, flew out of T3 in April and despite using it many times in the past, a long absence and a lot of overseas travel in the meantime, suddenly realised how appalling it actually is. Had to buy dry biscuits and cheese for breakfast as there were no real food options airside. Plus the T3 security point is tiny, dark, and always slow. Never seen any real queue in T4 and it’s much brighter and open.

zkncj wrote:

qf2048 wrote:

Looks like The Wallabies have travelled to New Zealand on a chartered Air New Zealand A320 for the up coming Bledisloe Cup. I saw a short video on news.com

I that is along time for the Wallabies to commit to being in New Zealand, I take the Perth game in the middle has been axed. When the Tasman Bubble closure announcement was made, the PM state of the Wallabies could get into New Zealand within the next 7 days they would make an exemption for them to travel to New Zealand. But after the 7days is up, there would be no special treatment.

Would have though they would of chartered an QF 738 although? Maybe to do with avoiding local crew in Australia, which would be at higher risk of being Covid positive.

Probably came down to the lowest cost. Now that Qantas isn’t their main sponsor, they can shop around. As it is, Rugby Australia are scratching for 5 cents behind the couch just to keep the lights on at this point. The double whammy of loosing Qantas sponsorship and Foxtel walking away from the broadcast rights hit them really hard, and they already weren’t in the best financial shape before Covid. While the amounts have not been disclosed, it is widely accepted that the new contracts with Cadbury and Nine/Stan are significantly less valuable.

ClassicLover wrote:

freshwater wrote:

Virgin Australia has just launched a refresh of their website. Not sure how I feel about it from a user experience point of view, much more clicking through ala Jetstar. They are definitely striving to differentiate themselves from the pre COVID VA.

It doesn't seem to be all that much different to when I was last checking it out, if the truth be told. What exactly has changed?

Just realised I was being redirected to the test site., try this...

https://beta.virginaustralia.com/au/en

MEL plans to close T3 security gates by the middle of 2022, with all T3 pax going through to T4 to use the T4 security lanes before they head back to T3 for their flights.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ers-via-t4

This is actually something that MEL and VA talked up in December 2017 but at the time Virgin was going to add a 'Premium Entry' lane like SYD and BNE to MEL T3, now it seems this is off the cards and all Virgin passengers will have to do the T4 detour.

CraigAnderson wrote:

MEL plans to close T3 security gates by the middle of 2022, with all T3 pax going through to T4 to use the T4 security lanes before they head back to T3 for their flights.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ers-via-t4

This is actually something that MEL and VA talked up in December 2017 but at the time Virgin was going to add a 'Premium Entry' lane like SYD and BNE to MEL T3, now it seems this is off the cards and all Virgin passengers will have to do the T4 detour.

Surely VA will move it’s check-in to T4? Post TT is there excess check-in resources in T4?

So T3 should really become T4B

zkncj wrote:

qf2048 wrote:

Looks like The Wallabies have travelled to New Zealand on a chartered Air New Zealand A320 for the up coming Bledisloe Cup. I saw a short video on news.com

I that is along time for the Wallabies to commit to being in New Zealand, I take the Perth game in the middle has been axed. When the Tasman Bubble closure announcement was made, the PM state of the Wallabies could get into New Zealand within the next 7 days they would make an exemption for them to travel to New Zealand. But after the 7days is up, there would be no special treatment.

Would have though they would of chartered an QF 738 although? Maybe to do with avoiding local crew in Australia, which would be at higher risk of being Covid positive.

I think the second and third games have been switch around. The second game is now in NZ and the third game will be in Perth. I'm surprised they didn't just play all three games in NZ to minimise travel.

freshwater wrote:

Just realised I was being redirected to the test site., try this...

https://beta.virginaustralia.com/au/en

Ah-ha! Thanks for that, now I see what you meant.

What might 5 learjets be doing doing a pattern over the upper hunter right now? Strangely, flights seem to have originated from HMAS Albatross...

Qantas has announced today that 2500 crew will be stood down for the next 2 months due to ongoing border closures, affects both Qantas and Jetstar

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... -closures/

qf2220 wrote:

What might 5 learjets be doing doing a pattern over the upper hunter right now? Strangely, flights seem to have originated from HMAS Albatross...

Adversary simulation for the fighter squadron at Williamstown?

a320fan wrote:

Amazing, flew out of T3 in April and despite using it many times in the past, a long absence and a lot of overseas travel in the meantime, suddenly realised how appalling it actually is. Had to buy dry biscuits and cheese for breakfast as there were no real food options airside. Plus the T3 security point is tiny, dark, and always slow. Never seen any real queue in T4 and it’s much brighter and open.

Before the 'recent' renovations by Virgin to T3, it wasn't that much different from Ansett days, changing the signage was probably the biggest change prior to the renos, lol. T4 has the best F&B offering of the MEL terminals, and the security screening is the best out of the domestic terminals.

Here's another 'opportunity' for REX to 'grab a few more' when the current Delta outbreaks across the East Coast start to get under control.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-08-02/

SCFlyer wrote:

Here's another 'opportunity' for REX to 'grab a few more' when the current Delta outbreaks across the East Coast start to get under control.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-08-02/

There are plenty of 738s around the world available for lease though I realistically don't think REX is in any position to consider extra growth given their loads over the past few months.

I thought REX grounded all their B738 services?


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EK413 wrote:

I thought REX grounded all their B738 services?


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Allegedly the ZL 737s are only grounded during the east coast lockdown. Given the losses the must have been incurring on most of their jet services, it will be interesting to see if they ever return.

qf789 wrote:

Qantas has announced today that 2500 crew will be stood down for the next 2 months due to ongoing border closures, affects both Qantas and Jetstar

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... -closures/

Do these 2500 staff receive the new government support payment announced on Monday? If not, then it’s hard for any crew who don’t live in Greater Sydney as they’re not eligible for the normal payment if they don’t live in a hotspot.

RyanairGuru wrote:

qf789 wrote:

Qantas has announced today that 2500 crew will be stood down for the next 2 months due to ongoing border closures, affects both Qantas and Jetstar

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... -closures/

Do these 2500 staff receive the new government support payment announced on Monday? If not, then it’s hard for any crew who don’t live in Greater Sydney as they’re not eligible for the normal payment if they don’t live in a hotspot.

Yes, stood down staff receive the $750 per week payment from federal government but only for flight and cabin crew. Ground handling is not covered by federal aviation payment at this stage.

So just how bad was the Olympic football team behaviour on the NRT-SYD flight? I note QF did not make a formal complaint (or did they, but for whatever reason it's being kept quiet?) and the hotel damage was attributed to "youthful exuberance".

Reports now that Virgin Australia will stand down more than 1,000 staff following Qantas's decision this week to do the same. Although Rex has grounded its Boeing 737s I haven't seen any announcement of Rex standing down staff, did I miss that or maybe that's to come as well?

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 58fun.html
​​​​​​​

tullamarine wrote:

Yes, stood down staff receive the $750 per week payment from federal government but only for flight and cabin crew. Ground handling is not covered by federal aviation payment at this stage.

Thankfully that's now changed, SMH says "Mr Joyce was forced to clarify on Tuesday that airline staff in ground roles were eligible for the government payments after initially suggested they would be excluded, though only direct airline employees are included. Thousands of workers at contract ground staff providers will miss out as a result." That's Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce, not Alan Joyce.

That paragraph is from this article about Virgin stand-downs to come https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 58fun.html

CraigAnderson wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

Yes, stood down staff receive the $750 per week payment from federal government but only for flight and cabin crew. Ground handling is not covered by federal aviation payment at this stage.

Thankfully that's now changed, SMH says "Mr Joyce was forced to clarify on Tuesday that airline staff in ground roles were eligible for the government payments after initially suggested they would be excluded, though only direct airline employees are included. Thousands of workers at contract ground staff providers will miss out as a result." That's Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce, not Alan Joyce.

That paragraph is from this article about Virgin stand-downs to come https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 58fun.html

& once again discriminate all non airline staff which are directly impacted…


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Unbelievable, somebody paid 2 million Qantas frequent flyer points for two well-used A380 business class seats, the original Marc Newson SkyBed seats, at the Qantas online auction. Apparently those points could have bought six around the world trips in business class, which just shows that people put very different values on their points!

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... lass-seats

Interesting find on FR24. Six Batik Air and Lion Air are flying into PHE from CGK today. Going into short term storage perhaps?

CraigAnderson wrote:

Unbelievable, somebody paid 2 million Qantas frequent flyer points for two well-used A380 business class seats, the original Marc Newson SkyBed seats, at the Qantas online auction. Apparently those points could have bought six around the world trips in business class, which just shows that people put very different values on their points!

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... lass-seats

It is probably an example of someone who really isn't that interested in points for international travel because they do heaps already. I've had a number of bosses who collect millions of points every year on various corporate credit cards and will never use all the points they have accrued. I'm not 100% sure I'd want the seats because they do use a lot of space but, if your fortunate enough to have somewhere to put them, why not?

Fuling wrote:

Interesting find on FR24. Six Batik Air and Lion Air are flying into PHE from CGK today. Going into short term storage perhaps?

The first aircraft has taken off now heading towards ASP, probably stopped off at PHE for either fuel or to clear customs

On top of the 6 aircraft currently positioning to ASP there were 8 Garuda 737-800's arrive at ASP 2 days ago for storage

Could they be aircraft destined to go to DL? Moving into storage before they are prepped to head across to the US.

a320fan wrote:

Could they be aircraft destined to go to DL? Moving into storage before they are prepped to head across to the US.

If you're talking about the Batik and Lion Air aircraft, no, they are 4 Batik 320's and 2 Lion Air 738's.

The 8 Garuda that went to ASP a couple of days ago were all 738's.

[*]

a320fan wrote:

Could they be aircraft destined to go to DL? Moving into storage before they are prepped to head across to the US.

The aircraft that Delta were leasing/buying were Lionair 737-900s, the ones coming to Australia are Garuda 737-800s and the others were a mix of 737-800s and A320s

LTEN11 wrote:

a320fan wrote:

Could they be aircraft destined to go to DL? Moving into storage before they are prepped to head across to the US.

If you're talking about the Batik and Lion Air aircraft, no, they are 4 Batik 320's and 2 Lion Air 738's.

The 8 Garuda that went to ASP a couple of days ago were all 738's.

1 of the A320’s is operating to pax the crew back to Jakarta.

Flight ID3018 from Alice Springs to Jakarta
https://fr24.com/BTK3018/28aec8d0


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tullamarine wrote:

CraigAnderson wrote:

Unbelievable, somebody paid 2 million Qantas frequent flyer points for two well-used A380 business class seats, the original Marc Newson SkyBed seats, at the Qantas online auction. Apparently those points could have bought six around the world trips in business class, which just shows that people put very different values on their points!

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... lass-seats

It is probably an example of someone who really isn't that interested in points for international travel because they do heaps already. I've had a number of bosses who collect millions of points every year on various corporate credit cards and will never use all the points they have accrued. I'm not 100% sure I'd want the seats because they do use a lot of space but, if your fortunate enough to have somewhere to put them, why not?

I have several friends who are into Sim Racing on PCs and Consoles. You’d be surprised the amount of money people will pay for an almost authentic car setup. I guess this person decided on using points to buy a lazy chair that converts into a day bed or perhaps the ultimate movie watching seat.

Different strokes for different folks.

I was hesitant to repost a question I asked many months ago, but given the lack of a lot of activity due to continuing CoVid issues, I’ll rehash it and throw it out there.

Many months ago, I asked the question about QF’s consideration to potentially purchase, years ago now, two B744 freighters to be operated by themselves in lieu of the wet leased planes operated by Atlas. I have been following another a.net thread and the supposed Airbus A350F possibly coming into fruition within the next 3-4 years. And this have given me a thought or two.

I think it’s fair to say that in a non CoVid world, QF would have or would be in the process of ordering the A35K as their preferred choice to undertake ULH flights, AKA Project Sunrise. Also, there was a fairly common understanding that QF would also eventually purchase additional 350’s to replace the A380 at some given point.

Now my interpretation of the previously mentioned a.net thread, suggests an A350F would have cargo volume about on par with a 744F. Therefore, given the increases of online shopping and overall freight, could there be a case for QF to consider an A350F in their fleet in the future? It would have a large amount of fleet commonality, obviously.

Thoughts?

Reference - A350F Discussion: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1458691

Thanks.

Anything's possible but I suspect many of the reasons they went with Atlas the last two times still exist.

Rex is considering taking Qantas to court over anti-competitive and predatory behavour.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... nst-qantas

EK413 wrote:

CraigAnderson wrote:

tullamarine wrote:

Yes, stood down staff receive the $750 per week payment from federal government but only for flight and cabin crew. Ground handling is not covered by federal aviation payment at this stage.

Thankfully that's now changed, SMH says "Mr Joyce was forced to clarify on Tuesday that airline staff in ground roles were eligible for the government payments after initially suggested they would be excluded, though only direct airline employees are included. Thousands of workers at contract ground staff providers will miss out as a result." That's Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce, not Alan Joyce.

That paragraph is from this article about Virgin stand-downs to come https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 58fun.html

& once again discriminate all non airline staff which are directly impacted…


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Yup disgraceful- this is the VA/QF subsidiary and buggar the rest of the industry. And forget Aussie staff of international airlines... yet alone airport companies, security staff, cleaning and catering, far less paid than any pilot ever was.

Speaking of the Aussie staff at international airlines- there is a rumour (trying to get confirmation) Garuda has terminated all the sales & marketing people in SYD/MEL/PER and a GSA will take over.

FL420FT wrote:

Rex is considering taking Qantas to court over anti-competitive and predatory behavour.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... nst-qantas

Sounds like another way for them to loose a bit more money. Hope they do actually. Put this thing to bed once and for all.

qf2048 wrote:

FL420FT wrote:

Rex is considering taking Qantas to court over anti-competitive and predatory behavour.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... nst-qantas

Sounds like another way for them to loose a bit more money. Hope they do actually. Put this thing to bed once and for all.

I actually was very supportive of ZL and thought they had a chance... but truly they need to stop this vengeful attack on QF. Better to spend their money building their brand and reputation in the market, and maybe removing all traces of VA in their aircraft...

FL420FT wrote:

Rex is considering taking Qantas to court over anti-competitive and predatory behavour.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... nst-qantas

How long is it going to take them before they realise this kind of stuff doesn't work against the private industry, sure, you can whinge to the government all you want, take subsidies and monopolies and cry when someone enters your market, but at some point, they have to understand it isn't just "pie in the sky", there is the competition you have to deal with on an operational basis and compete with them by providing the best product and value for the consumer.

Ellofiend wrote:

FL420FT wrote:

Rex is considering taking Qantas to court over anti-competitive and predatory behavour.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... nst-qantas

How long is it going to take them before they realise this kind of stuff doesn't work against the private industry, sure, you can whinge to the government all you want, take subsidies and monopolies and cry when someone enters your market, but at some point, they have to understand it isn't just "pie in the sky", there is the competition you have to deal with on an operational basis and compete with them by providing the best product and value for the consumer.

It's not like QF have entered these markets and started selling seats for $50. QF are actually dearer than ZL on all of these routes from what I can see. You can still get a ZL fare cheaper than a QF sale fare.
I have nothing against the staff at ZL, they do a great job, but I don't like the way their management operates.

And QF is in a very different position to Rex.
They've got a bunch of expensive, mostly leased or financed assets, sitting idle.

As long as they making enough $s to cover fuel, airport costs and labour, it's less of a loss than having them sit idle.

eta unknown wrote:

Speaking of the Aussie staff at international airlines- there is a rumour (trying to get confirmation) Garuda has terminated all the sales & marketing people in SYD/MEL/PER and a GSA will take over.

It was being reported a few months ago that Garuda was pretty much pulling out of Australia, leaving only Sydney, and even that was under a cloud. Wouldn't surprise me if Garuda just pulled out altogether.

https://www.afr.com/world/asia/garuda-l ... 622-p58397
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... th-flights

qf2220 wrote:

What might 5 learjets be doing doing a pattern over the upper hunter right now? Strangely, flights seem to have originated from HMAS Albatross...

freshwater wrote:

Adversary simulation for the fighter squadron at Williamstown?

Yes it could be for RAAF training. Air Affairs has a fleet of Learjets based at Nowra that are used for a range of things including target towing, fire surveillance and medivac.

No surprise here, Rex says its now looking at an $18 million loss for FY21 due to the Sydney lockdown and ensuing border closures , and will be implementing temporary and downs, details of those to be released at the end of this week.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... -lockdowns

Rex was up against it at the best of times and in the best of conditions, even in the lockdown-free months, you have to wonder if this lockdown isn't the final nail in the coffin, although one could argue that Rex dug the actual grave itself with its B737 push.

CraigAnderson wrote:

No surprise here, Rex says its now looking at an $18 million loss for FY21 due to the Sydney lockdown and ensuing border closures , and will be implementing temporary and downs, details of those to be released at the end of this week.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... -lockdowns

Rex was up against it at the best of times and in the best of conditions, even in the lockdown-free months, you have to wonder if this lockdown isn't the final nail in the coffin, although one could argue that Rex dug the actual grave itself with its B737 push.

I understand them making a loss but don't believe it can be blamed on Sydney lockdown given the lockdown didn't start until 26 June.