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SQ22
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Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:03 pm

Welcome to the Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021. Please continue to add your news and comments below.

Link to previous thread:

Irish 7/21: I remember that Summer in Dublin
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:49 pm

AmricanShamrok wrote:
Welcome to the Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021. Please continue to add your news and comments below.

As suspected:
https://flyinginireland.com/2021/07/aer-lingus-a330-scrapped-at-knock/

Some nice pics there of her final journey.


I saw the landing earlier on Knock Airport's Twitter account. Nice to see someone out there filming the occasion.

In other news, I discovered tonight that you can book Japan Airlines flights out of Dublin, even to places such as Australia. Not a bad thing to do considering their 787s are eight abreast in economy, the 777s are still nine abreast, and if you plump for premium economy, you get lounge access included, same as business class. I don't know why people don't consider them more, but I guess they don't have much brand recognition here in Ireland.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:03 pm

Thanks for a new thread .

I just had a great flight on one of the newest 321NEO’s down to ACE . I was on an Advantage fare so seating in the Business cabin was included. AerClub check in still closed but the check in area was quiet anyway with only about 30-40 passengers who were mostly using the SSK’s. Fast Track was open and took a few mins to clear. T2 was very quiet although busier compared to nothing a few weeks ago. The shop staff seem relieved to have some passengers to serve. Although many shops and eating places are still shut including the upstairs one and Burger King.

The Slaney bar was open but numbers heavily restricted and this lead to people sitting opposite waiting to get in. I headed to the Marquette in T1 and there was more of a buzz to the shops and restaurants. Weird that there were no restrictions at the bar there and the place was full .

The flight itself was 100% full in Business cabin and around 65% full down the back. A mix of all types of passengers from solo/ families / couples. The majority up front seemed to have paid the €95 upgrade fee. It certainly seems a popular option . The wifi / IFE was all functional . BOB was done but limited stocks lead to an announcement apologising. One of the crew said during the second lockdown the catering firm went bust so Bia was heavily reduced they cant even source Taytos with the new one . A 2 page mini menu is all thats available and most of that was sold out.

The crew were in a good mood though and one said they were on a 70% TATL 30% Europe contract . They were happy to be back after on average one flight every three months and major pay reductions.

A lot of Irish here in Lanzarote with the bulk being in Puerto Del Carmen. Many of the Irish bars have recently opened in anticipation of Irish being allowed to fly again. Other tourists are mostly French , Polish and Mainland Spanish . The UK flights are hit by the quarantine but still quite a few making it .

Its great to see the Aer Lingus 321NEO on the route the PTVs are great for the kids on a 4 hour run. Hopefully we will see them kept for the Winter if not needed for US routes. Its certainly a way to get revenue while a good few are parked up at the B gates in T1 idle.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:05 pm

OA260 wrote:
One of the crew said during the second lockdown the catering firm went bust so Bia was heavily reduced they cant even source Taytos with the new one . A 2 page mini menu is all thats available and most of that was sold out.

Its great to see the Aer Lingus 321NEO on the route the PTVs are great for the kids on a 4 hour run. Hopefully we will see them kept for the Winter if not needed for US routes. Its certainly a way to get revenue while a good few are parked up at the B gates in T1 idle.


Great update there, though it's sad to hear a catering firm went bust during the second lockdown. I had always thought the supply chain reliant on the airlines would be heavily impacted by the pandemic as well. Let's hope something improves, life is tough if they can't source Tayto!!

I'd love to know how much halo effect comes from people flying in those business seats on a four hour flight. I imagine it gets people talking and probably means some would pay for the upgrade on transatlantic flights down the line.
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:52 pm

An apology for shortages is welcome! Why not announce pre boarding that catering will be limited and allow guests to bring on board? Not being able to source Tayto at your home base, and Tatyo made in Ireland, isn't just sad it's criminal!
 
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:12 pm

bx737 wrote:
GAJ/GCF have crew rest facilities which reduce the capacity by one middle row, to allow access to the lower deck rest area. EIM and EIN are the same configuration.
DAA/DUO/LAX all have the rest areas, so their capacity is lower than EWR, incidentally DAA should read 243 seats in Y Class. As we probably know, EWR has since then, met its maker.
GEY has the Aer Lingus business class layout and has retained the Qatar Y Class configuration with a few seats added where the 6 business class seats were located behind Door 2.
As EIK and EIL have not entered service yet, so their interior is unknown, but if they are finished the same way as other Aer Lingus owned A330-300s, they should be 30/287.


The reason I asked originally is because of aeroLOPA. They are putting together accurate LOPAs (layout of passenger accommodation - aka seat maps) for various airlines in oneworld and IAG. They're accurate down to the seat positions versus the windows.

Anyway, the first Aer Lingus drawing is now online here for the Airbus A330-300 -

https://www.aerolopa.com/ei-airbus-a330-gallery

They're very good, and no doubt the other versions and variations will be added as time passes. The ones for BA and AA are spot on incidentally, so it's going to be a great resource.
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:36 pm

I am sure the NEOs will stay on ACE and possibly other islands over winter. They have enough this winter and will likely park extra A320s and keep all the NEOs flying.
 
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:56 pm

A quick question for you lads n' lassies. I was down at GLA this morning getting a few snaps and the recently reinstated Aer Lingus service from DUB arrived, EI-DEI in rugby scheme, minus any player pictures. Last time she visited way back in March 2020, early lockdown, she still had a complement of Irish rugby players faces on the scheme. Somebody local here suggested they change them every so often ? Is that right and when will the next roster of Irish rugby stars be applied ?

ImagePSX_20210801_092508 by Jann Eejit, on Flickr
 
EI121
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:29 pm

OA260 wrote:
Thanks for a new thread .

I just had a great flight on one of the newest 321NEO’s down to ACE . I was on an Advantage fare so seating in the Business cabin was included. AerClub check in still closed but the check in area was quiet anyway with only about 30-40 passengers who were mostly using the SSK’s. Fast Track was open and took a few mins to clear. T2 was very quiet although busier compared to nothing a few weeks ago. The shop staff seem relieved to have some passengers to serve. Although many shops and eating places are still shut including the upstairs one and Burger King.

The Slaney bar was open but numbers heavily restricted and this lead to people sitting opposite waiting to get in. I headed to the Marquette in T1 and there was more of a buzz to the shops and restaurants. Weird that there were no restrictions at the bar there and the place was full .

The flight itself was 100% full in Business cabin and around 65% full down the back. A mix of all types of passengers from solo/ families / couples. The majority up front seemed to have paid the €95 upgrade fee. It certainly seems a popular option . The wifi / IFE was all functional . BOB was done but limited stocks lead to an announcement apologising. One of the crew said during the second lockdown the catering firm went bust so Bia was heavily reduced they cant even source Taytos with the new one . A 2 page mini menu is all thats available and most of that was sold out.

The crew were in a good mood though and one said they were on a 70% TATL 30% Europe contract . They were happy to be back after on average one flight every three months and major pay reductions.

A lot of Irish here in Lanzarote with the bulk being in Puerto Del Carmen. Many of the Irish bars have recently opened in anticipation of Irish being allowed to fly again. Other tourists are mostly French , Polish and Mainland Spanish . The UK flights are hit by the quarantine but still quite a few making it .

Its great to see the Aer Lingus 321NEO on the route the PTVs are great for the kids on a 4 hour run. Hopefully we will see them kept for the Winter if not needed for US routes. Its certainly a way to get revenue while a good few are parked up at the B gates in T1 idle.


I'm not sure if the cabin crew member is exactly right regarding the catering firm going bust as EI announced the closure of their in-house catering facility in 2019 and last year it was announced that dnata had won the contract.

Unless dnata has since pulled out of Ireland? I can't find anything online stating that they have.

I know Menzies did pull out of Ireland and from what I've heard through the grapevine that AA, who went from Swissport to their own in-house for their check-in operation a few years back, have now gone back to Swissport. Can't say for certain this is entirely correct however.

https://flyinginireland.com/2020/04/aer ... -to-dnata/
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:46 pm

Dnata does not supply BOB to EI. They bought the EI catering unit which supplies legacy type catering. Knowing EIs like of off the wall suppliers it's quite possible the BOB supplier closed especially if it's only client was EI.
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:12 pm

EI121 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Thanks for a new thread .

I just had a great flight on one of the newest 321NEO’s down to ACE . I was on an Advantage fare so seating in the Business cabin was included. AerClub check in still closed but the check in area was quiet anyway with only about 30-40 passengers who were mostly using the SSK’s. Fast Track was open and took a few mins to clear. T2 was very quiet although busier compared to nothing a few weeks ago. The shop staff seem relieved to have some passengers to serve. Although many shops and eating places are still shut including the upstairs one and Burger King.

The Slaney bar was open but numbers heavily restricted and this lead to people sitting opposite waiting to get in. I headed to the Marquette in T1 and there was more of a buzz to the shops and restaurants. Weird that there were no restrictions at the bar there and the place was full .

The flight itself was 100% full in Business cabin and around 65% full down the back. A mix of all types of passengers from solo/ families / couples. The majority up front seemed to have paid the €95 upgrade fee. It certainly seems a popular option . The wifi / IFE was all functional . BOB was done but limited stocks lead to an announcement apologising. One of the crew said during the second lockdown the catering firm went bust so Bia was heavily reduced they cant even source Taytos with the new one . A 2 page mini menu is all thats available and most of that was sold out.

The crew were in a good mood though and one said they were on a 70% TATL 30% Europe contract . They were happy to be back after on average one flight every three months and major pay reductions.

A lot of Irish here in Lanzarote with the bulk being in Puerto Del Carmen. Many of the Irish bars have recently opened in anticipation of Irish being allowed to fly again. Other tourists are mostly French , Polish and Mainland Spanish . The UK flights are hit by the quarantine but still quite a few making it .

Its great to see the Aer Lingus 321NEO on the route the PTVs are great for the kids on a 4 hour run. Hopefully we will see them kept for the Winter if not needed for US routes. Its certainly a way to get revenue while a good few are parked up at the B gates in T1 idle.


I'm not sure if the cabin crew member is exactly right regarding the catering firm going bust as EI announced the closure of their in-house catering facility in 2019 and last year it was announced that dnata had won the contract.

Unless dnata has since pulled out of Ireland? I can't find anything online stating that they have.

I know Menzies did pull out of Ireland and from what I've heard through the grapevine that AA, who went from Swissport to their own in-house for their check-in operation a few years back, have now gone back to Swissport. Can't say for certain this is entirely correct however.

https://flyinginireland.com/2020/04/aer ... -to-dnata/


Not sure what the current status is for AA but they still hold the licence for self handling.
 
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:07 pm

I think the in house catering bought by dnata was only for the long haul side of the business; the economy meal service and business class offerings etc. the buy on board product has long been outsourced.

I believe the buy on board product is now handled by Retail inMotion (since 2017 actually) who are more of a sales consultant. I'm not sure if it can be considered a supplier in the sense that it doesn't have kitchens or a production line but rather acts as a go between for airlines and suppliers. It handles everything from the products on sale, to the way the menu card looks. It also manages the duty free sales but doesn't physically produce anything.

I imagine the airline customer picks a product range after consulting with RiM, gets it customised with their own branding (Bia for Aer Lingus, Getaway Cafe for Ryanair) and then RiM put it together via various suppliers and delivers it to the airline. If one of those key suppliers goes bust, I'd expect it's Retail inMotion's responsibility to find another.

Aer Lingus, Ryanair, Eurowings, Lutfthansa etc. are all customers of RiM.
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:03 am

Amazing then that RiM can fully supply Ryanair, etc but poorly supply EI! Anyway I'm sure the issue will get resolved eventually.
 
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:28 am

Fliplot wrote:
Amazing then that RiM can fully supply Ryanair, etc but poorly supply EI! Anyway I'm sure the issue will get resolved eventually.

Well again that depends of whether or not they're acting as on a consultancy basis or supply basis for Aer Lingus. I know most of the fresh produce Aer Lingus had on its menu for many years was supplied by The Brunch Box from Northern Ireland and as far as I'm aware they're still in business so who knows.
 
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:39 am

If EI can't source Tatyo then something is amiss! How many times pre-covide were the return legs sold out of BOB?
 
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:14 am

ClassicLover wrote:
Anyway, the first Aer Lingus drawing is now online here for the Airbus A330-300 -

https://www.aerolopa.com/ei-airbus-a330-gallery

They're very good, and no doubt the other versions and variations will be added as time passes. The ones for BA and AA are spot on incidentally, so it's going to be a great resource.


The A321LR and A320 are online now too, Ive only been on the LR once and its been a while since I’ve been on an EI A320, but both seem very accurate - even the missing window on the LR is included.

I can’t understand how EI are still finalising the negotiations with Emerald, or is that just a standard stalling tactic? Ireland - GB is a key market for EI, yet they seem entirely disinterested and are setting Ryanair up to capture significant market share and frequency. Ireland/UK traffic is now free of testing from both ends as is the majority, if not all of their short haul network. Yet they are cutting frequencies while building up routes to the US and Canada that have essentially zero prospects of EU point of sale. Is it inability, disinterest or just poor returns? Can we expect to see a shrinking of the EI short haul network to how it looked in the early 2000's. LHR, CDG, AMS, FRA and a few flights a week to Spain?

Are EI overly concerned/obsessed/distracted by their transatlantic network when they should be focussing on markets closer to home? Or is the return for EI on transatlantic markets that much better than short haul? The EI A320s are the lest dense across all of IAG, which seems strange for a ‘value’ carrier. They can’t seem to get even the most rudimentary BoB service back on board when other IAG airlines, easyJet and Ryanair have managed.
 
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:54 am

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... -1.4636365

Aer Lingus is poised to name Emerald Airlines as its new regional carrier this week, with the new service likely to begin in January.

The airline has been in talks with Emerald, founded by aviation entrepreneur Conor McCarthy, since December on taking over the Aer Lingus Regional contract formerly held by Stobart Air.

“Aer Lingus and Emerald Airlines are at the final stages of agreement, and Aer Lingus is hopeful that an announcement will be made in the coming days,” the Irish flag-carrier said in a response to a query at the weekend .

Regulator
Emerald is understood to be going through the final stages of getting its air operators’ certificate from the Irish Aviation Authority, the regulator responsible for safety and air navigation.

Trade publication reports recently stated that it had taken delivery of two ATR 72-600s, specialist short-haul aircraft. ATR is jointly owned by Airbus and Italian aerospace group Leonardo.
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:44 am

Maybe it's because Emerald is a paper airline. It is not yet licensed and while it is reported to have two ATR aircraft I've not seen them yet. We now hear it will be a Janyary start. I guess EI don't mind FR scooping up their routes and their guests. Who knows maybe the long awaited agreement on FR feed to EI will be announced next!
 
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:03 pm

Aer Lingus still only expected to operate at 45% capacity until end of September which incidentally is the rumoured new opening date for its lounges. Id say there is no real rush on their part to launch EIR again as there is currently nothing much to feed via what used to be called the DUBHUB to TATL.
 
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:06 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
The A321LR and A320 are online now too, Ive only been on the LR once and its been a while since I’ve been on an EI A320, but both seem very accurate - even the missing window on the LR is included.


Yes, the great thing about aeroLOPA is that the cabin diagrams match precisely what is on the aircraft, right down to correct alignment of seats vs windows. I see you gave Prospero on FT a guide on where the missing row was on the new A330s, after I gave him the A320 window position photos - team work!! I had wondered where that missing row is. He should therefore have the most accurate EI seat maps, certainly better than the ones in the PDF on the EI website.

BrianDromey wrote:
Ireland - GB is a key market for EI, yet they seem entirely disinterested and are setting Ryanair up to capture significant market share and frequency.


Sounds to me that the costs of operating it themselves is really that much more expensive that it doesn't make them any money / or they can deploy the fleet more profitably elsewhere. We have seen the news today that Emerald is close to being finalised, with a January start. That's some turnaround to get them a year earlier than expected.

Flew from Kerry to Dublin today, which was a pleasant day out. Sad to see certain aircraft all masked up at DUB though!
 
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:33 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
The A321LR and A320 are online now too, Ive only been on the LR once and its been a while since I’ve been on an EI A320, but both seem very accurate - even the missing window on the LR is included.


Yes, the great thing about aeroLOPA is that the cabin diagrams match precisely what is on the aircraft, right down to correct alignment of seats vs windows. I see you gave Prospero on FT a guide on where the missing row was on the new A330s, after I gave him the A320 window position photos - team work!! I had wondered where that missing row is. He should therefore have the most accurate EI seat maps, certainly better than the ones in the PDF on the EI website.


Both A330 versions are on aeroLOPA, they look great.

I played around a little bit with comparing the IB layout on their A333s with the EI one. I was curious to know how the impact of a hypothetical Premium Economy product, assuming the same spec as the IB seat. I think they would end up with something like 30J18W259Y(or 255Y), for a net loss of 10Y sets. To look at it another way, they would need the average Premium Economy fare to be 1.55 times the average Y fare for the cabin to break even, assuming a load of 100% in both cabins and no loss of revenue from the J cabin. In real life the calculation would be more complicated, but as a ball park EI would need to be getting roughly twice the base fare for premium economy to work. I haven't taken the A321LR into consideration, but I guess the chances of cannibalising business class, especially on Westbound Day flights would be fairly high.
 
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:34 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
The A321LR and A320 are online now too, Ive only been on the LR once and its been a while since I’ve been on an EI A320, but both seem very accurate - even the missing window on the LR is included.


Yes, the great thing about aeroLOPA is that the cabin diagrams match precisely what is on the aircraft, right down to correct alignment of seats vs windows. I see you gave Prospero on FT a guide on where the missing row was on the new A330s, after I gave him the A320 window position photos - team work!! I had wondered where that missing row is. He should therefore have the most accurate EI seat maps, certainly better than the ones in the PDF on the EI website.

BrianDromey wrote:
Ireland - GB is a key market for EI, yet they seem entirely disinterested and are setting Ryanair up to capture significant market share and frequency.


Sounds to me that the costs of operating it themselves is really that much more expensive that it doesn't make them any money / or they can deploy the fleet more profitably elsewhere. We have seen the news today that Emerald is close to being finalised, with a January start. That's some turnaround to get them a year earlier than expected.

Flew from Kerry to Dublin today, which was a pleasant day out. Sad to see certain aircraft all masked up at DUB though!


Were there many on the flight from Kerry? I’ve heard that load factors weren’t great, though not surprising as it’s 189 seats available as opposed to the 70 or so that EI/Stobart used to fly with. Hopefully the route will stay. I’m flying the same route (both ways) next week. First time since Feb 2020!
 
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:59 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
Both A330 versions are on aeroLOPA, they look great.

I played around a little bit with comparing the IB layout on their A333s with the EI one. I was curious to know how the impact of a hypothetical Premium Economy product, assuming the same spec as the IB seat. I think they would end up with something like 30J18W259Y(or 255Y), for a net loss of 10Y sets. To look at it another way, they would need the average Premium Economy fare to be 1.55 times the average Y fare for the cabin to break even, assuming a load of 100% in both cabins and no loss of revenue from the J cabin. In real life the calculation would be more complicated, but as a ball park EI would need to be getting roughly twice the base fare for premium economy to work. I haven't taken the A321LR into consideration, but I guess the chances of cannibalising business class, especially on Westbound Day flights would be fairly high.


Just checked that out there and it looks good! Now I know which row was removed.

Interesting calculation you made there, as one and a half to two times is pretty much what other airlines are charging for premium economy these days. It seems to have ramped up in price as it's become more popular. Considering what EI charge for business class in normal times, there is certainly space for a PE product, I'd expect. It's not relevant at the minute as EI are charging what is for them a pretty low J fare.

That may well be why they don't bring it in actually, as it has the potential to reduce transatlantic J revenue on the daytime flights to the USA. I know I'd probably do PE one way and J back in that case, especially on the east coast flights.

nickya340 wrote:
Were there many on the flight from Kerry? I’ve heard that load factors weren’t great, though not surprising as it’s 189 seats available as opposed to the 70 or so that EI/Stobart used to fly with. Hopefully the route will stay. I’m flying the same route (both ways) next week. First time since Feb 2020!


Surprisingly more than I expected! I took screenshots of the seat map for a blog post at around 11:17am before the flight and there were 75 seats taken. I didn't purchase seating or anything like that and was allocated a B seat, but with nobody in A or C, I moved, of course. I think all of those people showed up too, for what it's worth.

When you fly next week, check the seat map two or three hours before the flight (closer in and you can no longer look at it) and let us know how many you had on each flight. I'd be curious to see what the number comes to.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:14 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
[

Interesting calculation you made there, as one and a half to two times is pretty much what other airlines are charging for premium economy these days. It seems to have ramped up in price as it's become more popular. Considering what EI charge for business class in normal times, there is certainly space for a PE product, I'd expect. It's not relevant at the minute as EI are charging what is for them a pretty low J fare.

That may well be why they don't bring it in actually, as it has the potential to reduce transatlantic J revenue on the daytime flights to the USA. I know I'd probably do PE one way and J back in that case, especially on the east coast flights.


I think you have hit the nail on the head, especially for the daytime east coast flights, the chances of cannibalising Business class rather than upselling from Economy is quite high.

My estimate has made a few bad assumptions, I have assumed those 10 seats would always be sold at the average economy fare. Its entirely possible that those 10 seats are very rarely sold - they won’t be until 97% load in Y, for example. I allowed nothing in the cost base for additional crew, catering, amenity kits, etc. I’ve also worked on the basis of the base fare rather than the checkout price. Comparing fares gets a bit tricky because of differing taxes levied in different classes and different levels of YQ charged by different airlines. But roughly 2x base fare seems to be in the right ballpark. Which is usually about 30-50% more than the checkout price for Economy.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:38 pm

€10m Dublin training centre key to new Ryanair expansion

Ryanair is set to open its new €10m pilot and cabin crew training centre in Dublin, just in time for a major hiring spree by the airline.

www.independent.ie/business/irish/10m-d ... 05759.html
 
kaitak
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:38 am

Am I correct in saying that no airline currently flies t/a to or from Shannon?
 
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AmricanShamrok
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:13 pm

kaitak wrote:
Am I correct in saying that no airline currently flies t/a to or from Shannon?

Correct. EI scheduled to resume transatlantic from 1st November (I'll believe that when I see it), AA-PHL to resume next May and UA-EWR to resume in March. DL does not look to be resuming SNN ops in 2022 at present.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:18 pm

Weston Airport bought by group of investors and aviation enthusiasts

www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0803/1238 ... investors/
 
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:09 am

Aer Lingus confirm 10 year deal with Emerald but not starting until 1 Jan 2023. Apparently working to see if it can be earlier.
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:16 am

JAmie2k9 wrote:
Aer Lingus confirm 10 year deal with Emerald but not starting until 1 Jan 2023. Apparently working to see if it can be earlier.


https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0 ... l-flights/
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:21 am

seansasLCY wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
Aer Lingus confirm 10 year deal with Emerald but not starting until 1 Jan 2023. Apparently working to see if it can be earlier.


https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0 ... l-flights/


It mentions that mainline will operate until the end of the winter 21/22 season, I think it had only been up to the new year up to this. Let’s see what happens in the new year. But early2022 would seem the earliest Emerald could get up an running at this stage?
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:48 am

What a complete farce! I guess that's what happens when you pick a paper airline. Hogwash too about connecting Eurooe to the US via DUB. Emerald will reconnect the UK only. No aircraft in the 100 seat market either. Why not 5 or 6 Air Nostrum CRJs in the interim?

I still think EI sees it's guests as cargo, now more than ever!
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:08 am

Fliplot wrote:
What a complete farce! I guess that's what happens when you pick a paper airline. Hogwash too about connecting Eurooe to the US via DUB. Emerald will reconnect the UK only. No aircraft in the 100 seat market either. Why not 5 or 6 Air Nostrum CRJs in the interim?


The answers fall into a few categories
1) No inclination/contractual obligations that mean EI can only offer regional work to Emerald - unlikely
2) Wet Leases from outside IAG are moddled to be cash negative, each OpCo will be doing everything they can to avoid cash going out the door.
3) CRJs are too expensive to lease/operate.
4) Air Nostrum and/or CityJet have contracts with other airlines that mean substantial numbers are not available.
5) The various social protection schemes in Europe mean that reemploying crew increases their risk profile as we head into an uncertain winter.
6) Scope issues within EI. How many jets could EI wet-lease when so many crew are not flying and half the fleet is in storage?

I think at the end of the day EI feel a once daily service to most UK cities on the A320 will do the job Its not ideal, but no one seems to be crying abut FRs multiple daily 738s on the same routes. The slow ramp-up is possibly a reflection of how much of the EI fleet is in storage. The use of BACF indicates some interest in smaller aircraft, but the limited scope reflects that BHD-UK flying isn't in BA's business plan and will stop once better opportunities reopen at LCY. I think the reasons are a lot more nuanced than EI viewing guests as cargo, but the point about the Emerald situation being a farce are fair and entirely self inflicted by EI.
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:20 am

I have no problem with unions but find it completely strange that a union agreement can decide on commercial decisions. Surly flying is more important than deciding who is flying?
 
tonystan
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:44 am

Fliplot wrote:
I have no problem with unions but find it completely strange that a union agreement can decide on commercial decisions. Surly flying is more important than deciding who is flying?


What’s the question exactly? Are you asking why the unions representing Aer Lingus Mainline staff (pilots/crew) may want to protect their workload against a contractor? Also its not the unions which make the commercial decisions but their existence and agreements can very much dictate management decisions.
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:27 pm

The question, as a guest, is should the airline fly or not? EI do not have rhe fleet to fly all routes. They have a contract for regional flying but this does not include 100 seat jets. That is, we are told, because of agreements it has with unions. So its better to not serve a specific market because.....?

I think it's unfortunate that at a time of limited passengers EI are not being creative!
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:37 pm

Ryanair has announced a new weekly service this Winter between Ireland West Airport Knock and Malaga, on the Costa del Sol.

The Malaga service already operates from Knock during the Summer season, and will now continue throughout the year, with flights every Saturday throughout the Winter for the first time.

www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/4989 ... and-malaga
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:06 pm

Great news for NOC. Southern Spain is great in the winter months.
 
cc47
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:45 pm

Fliplot wrote:
What a complete farce! I guess that's what happens when you pick a paper airline. Hogwash too about connecting Eurooe to the US via DUB. Emerald will reconnect the UK only. No aircraft in the 100 seat market either. Why not 5 or 6 Air Nostrum CRJs in the interim?

I still think EI sees it's guests as cargo, now more than ever!


Are EI really expecting the people of Cork to drive to Dublin in the intermittent time period to fly on a 25 minute flight to MAN, BHX etc. Farcical. I really hope U2 or FR or someone pounce and pick up the routes from Cork, similar to KL and AF etc. capitalising on EIs lack of Cork service.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:57 pm

Id say we may see EI mainline or another stop gap come in as demand warrants to cover certain routes until Emerald commence.
 
cc47
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:16 pm

OA260 wrote:
Id say we may see EI mainline or another stop gap come in as demand warrants to cover certain routes until Emerald commence.

Hopefully
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:55 pm

Good to have Emerald confirmed. I think an early 2022 timeline is sensible and in line with what is realistically possible.

While there is some urgency to reclaim lost market share on regional routes, they have breathing space with the slow recovery post pandemic restrictions and if Aer Lingus can keep a foothold in those markets with daily A320s, it keeps them in play and allows an easier transfer to Emerald when they’re ready.
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:35 pm

I think guests will vote with their feet and travel FR - because they can! I guess those in Cork will get used to the current available carriers and probably FR will upscale as opportunities present themselves. Now that we know Emerald will not start until January 23, it's strange that in IAG it was not possible to find even a few regional aircraft to assist EI then again I suppose EI has to be interested and ask.
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:02 pm

FR CEO in Shannon for an announcement tomorrow apparently.
 
VanBosch
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:39 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
Good to have Emerald confirmed. I think an early 2022 timeline is sensible and in line with what is realistically possible.

While there is some urgency to reclaim lost market share on regional routes, they have breathing space with the slow recovery post pandemic restrictions and if Aer Lingus can keep a foothold in those markets with daily A320s, it keeps them in play and allows an easier transfer to Emerald when they’re ready.


Early 2023 is the timeframe!
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:04 pm

Emerald seems to be progressing towards operations incredibly slowly.

I wonder what this means for the PSOs. I don’t believe the Department is planning to wait that long for the next tender procedure.

This also leaves opportunity for other operators to come in, especially if traffic continues to recover in the coming months. By early 2023, there may not be much room left at all for EI Regional 2.0.
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:05 pm

After some slightly fuller (and on some days even quite full) Ryanair DUB-KIR-DUB thanks to the bank holiday weekend, tomorrow’s flights look almost totally empty.

JAmie2k9 wrote:
FR CEO in Shannon for an announcement tomorrow apparently.


I hope it is something meaningful and not the restart of twice weekly to Spain that was operated a decade ago.
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:16 pm

VanBosch wrote:
shamrock350 wrote:
Good to have Emerald confirmed. I think an early 2022 timeline is sensible and in line with what is realistically possible.

While there is some urgency to reclaim lost market share on regional routes, they have breathing space with the slow recovery post pandemic restrictions and if Aer Lingus can keep a foothold in those markets with daily A320s, it keeps them in play and allows an easier transfer to Emerald when they’re ready.


Early 2023 is the timeframe!


That’s the official contract start i.e the end of the original Stobart contract and the one they’ve likely been negotiating since they were chosen as the preferred bidder but today’s press release says they’re in discussions to bring the operations forward.

Although the contract is not due to commence for 18 months, Aer Lingus continues to work closely with Emerald Airlines to evaluate options with respect to an earlier contract start date in light of Stobart Air recently ceasing operations.

https://mediacentre.aerlingus.com/news/ ... d-airlines

Q1 2022 seems possible behind closed doors, Aer Lingus has committed to the routes until end of the upcoming winter schedule but by next summer they’ll no doubt prefer those aircraft playing their role in a much beefier European schedule rather than on UK regionals.
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:17 pm

EIBPI wrote:
Emerald seems to be progressing towards operations incredibly slowly.

I wonder what this means for the PSOs. I don’t believe the Department is planning to wait that long for the next tender procedure.

This also leaves opportunity for other operators to come in, especially if traffic continues to recover in the coming months. By early 2023, there may not be much room left at all for EI Regional 2.0.


Shouldn't be long before tenders are issued for bids to commence in Feb 2022 for 3 years. They could prehaps be a clause to extend the current one for 6-12 months but I see no reason why they would.

Emerald say they hope to have the AOC by autumn so in theory they could be available to bid.

JAmie2k9 wrote:
FR CEO in Shannon for an announcement tomorrow apparently.


I hope it is something meaningful and not the restart of twice weekly to Spain that was operated a decade ago.[/quote]

Would need to be something more than a route, possibly a few or a summer 2023 expansion. FR are not on best terms with daa so Shannon will always benefit from this.
 
Eagleboy
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:24 pm

OA260 wrote:
....
The crew were in a good mood though and one said they were on a 70% TATL 30% Europe contract . They were happy to be back after on average one flight every three months and major pay reductions. ......
No such contract. That may be that individuals preference or just what they are getting rostered.
but current workload is still 30-40% of what they should be,.

JannEejit wrote:
A quick question for you lads n' lassies. I was down at GLA this morning getting a few snaps and the recently reinstated Aer Lingus service from DUB arrived, EI-DEI in rugby scheme, minus any player pictures. Last time she visited way back in March 2020, early lockdown, she still had a complement of Irish rugby players faces on the scheme. Somebody local here suggested they change them every so often ? Is that right and when will the next roster of Irish rugby stars be applied ? .....
The decals applied at the time were for well known players at the time. Those player shave retired or are less popular now. (cant recall who exactly was on it though)Thus they were removed. The aircraft is still used for Rugby flights, even within the players decals.

Fliplot wrote:
......
I think it's unfortunate that at a time of limited passengers EI are not being creative!

In a time of losing money splashing out on 100 seaters jets may not be a good move. And if Emerald are planning to operate ATRs then ATRs are what EI are happy to take. Maybe in 3-5 years you might see Emerald upgauge to a 100 seater. Lets get planes flying before trying to have fancy metal doing the flying.

But I do concur with the thoughts above that the timeframe for Emerald getting off the ground is terrible slow. Really bad news for smaller regional airports who lost connectivity with the Stobart collapse.
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