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ClassicLover
Posts: 5304
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:48 pm

EIBPI wrote:
I wonder what this means for the PSOs. I don’t believe the Department is planning to wait that long for the next tender procedure.

This also leaves opportunity for other operators to come in, especially if traffic continues to recover in the coming months. By early 2023, there may not be much room left at all for EI Regional 2.0.


The PSO, you mean. There is only one, Dublin to Donegal. Ryanair is operating Dublin to Kerry with no subsidy, so as long as they keep doing that, it is no longer a PSO route.

It may well be that Amapola Flyg tenders for the Dublin Donegal route and gets it. They're already flying the routes, even if it is just for seven months. It could be anyone who wants the business, it doesn't necessarily have to be an Irish based airline that wins the PSO route tender. Might well be something like Loganair, for example, or Eastern. Though there may be issues there with non-EU airlines operating intra-EU, I suppose.

All the other EI regional routes will be fine. A certain group of people prefer Aer Lingus, and of course there is the whole transatlantic transfer business that will never go away. It's not like FR or U2 can pick any of that up, so once Emerald start, there'll be plenty of business. Not that it matters, it's up to EI to fill the seats! Emerald just run the flights as their operating costs are far cheaper.
 
debonair
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:25 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
Aer Lingus confirm 10 year deal with Emerald but not starting until 1 Jan 2023. Apparently working to see if it can be earlier.


Source?! Our friends at ch-aviation reporting "...The new service is likely to begin in January 2022."

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... l-contract

Fliplot wrote:
Why not 5 or 6 Air Nostrum CRJs in the interim?


Why looking abroad?! Can't understand why HIBERNIAN AIRLINES or CityJet are not trying to fill the void left; especially as WX flew for EI before.
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:20 pm

debonair wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
Aer Lingus confirm 10 year deal with Emerald but not starting until 1 Jan 2023. Apparently working to see if it can be earlier.


Source?! Our friends at ch-aviation reporting "...The new service is likely to begin in January 2022."

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... l-contract


The horses mouth;

Issued 4th August , 2021. Aer Lingus has today announced that it has entered into a franchise agreement with Emerald Airlines which will commence on 1 January, 2023 for a period of ten years for the operation of Aer Lingus Regional flights. Although the contract is not due to commence for 18 months, Aer Lingus continues to work closely with Emerald Airlines to evaluate options with respect to an earlier contract start date in light of Stobart Air recently ceasing operations.

https://mediacentre.aerlingus.com/news/ ... d-airlines

In fairness it also states they intend to commence operations earlier than this official start date in light of Stobart’s collapse so January 2022 may seem ambitious but not impossible.
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:19 am

ClassicLover wrote:
EIBPI wrote:
I wonder what this means for the PSOs. I don’t believe the Department is planning to wait that long for the next tender procedure.

This also leaves opportunity for other operators to come in, especially if traffic continues to recover in the coming months. By early 2023, there may not be much room left at all for EI Regional 2.0.


The PSO, you mean. There is only one, Dublin to Donegal. Ryanair is operating Dublin to Kerry with no subsidy, so as long as they keep doing that, it is no longer a PSO route.

It may well be that Amapola Flyg tenders for the Dublin Donegal route and gets it. They're already flying the routes, even if it is just for seven months. It could be anyone who wants the business, it doesn't necessarily have to be an Irish based airline that wins the PSO route tender. Might well be something like Loganair, for example, or Eastern. Though there may be issues there with non-EU airlines operating intra-EU, I suppose.

All the other EI regional routes will be fine. A certain group of people prefer Aer Lingus, and of course there is the whole transatlantic transfer business that will never go away. It's not like FR or U2 can pick any of that up, so once Emerald start, there'll be plenty of business. Not that it matters, it's up to EI to fill the seats! Emerald just run the flights as their operating costs are far cheaper.


There will be a second PSO pretty quickly with the reported loads on the Ryanair KIR flights. The bank holiday weekend saw a substantial increase but now we are back to 10-15-20…. the carbon footprint per passenger would be shocking.

As for the certain group of people who just prefer Aer Lingus to the UK, well they will have had to use the alternative and may not be so fast to switch back.

I fear the whole delay in finding a Stobart replacement (and whatever role EI might have had in letting them go bankrupt in the first place with a view to enabling a new cheaper operator to come along) may now not provide the most strategically positive outcome.
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:55 am

EIBPI wrote:
I fear the whole delay in finding a Stobart replacement (and whatever role EI might have had in letting them go bankrupt in the first place with a view to enabling a new cheaper operator to come along) may now not provide the most strategically positive outcome.


I think we need to move past this narrative that Aer Lingus let Stobart go bankrupt. It’s a serious stretch to suggest as such.

Stobart was an independent business that had made repeated strategic mistakes, they regularly took their eye off the ball and ended up in trouble. Stobart was on a shaky ground long before Emerald came along, they were fearful of having to compete for the contract renewal before anyone else had even expressed public interest.

The travel restrictions are what finished Stobart off, they were still in full contract with Aer Lingus and had the best part two years to get their house in order before the contract came to an end.

This idea that Aer Lingus practically orchestrated the collapse but are somehow to blame for not having a back up fully operational turboprop carrier ready and waiting from day one simply doesn’t make sense.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:01 am

cc47 wrote:
Fliplot wrote:
What a complete farce! I guess that's what happens when you pick a paper airline. Hogwash too about connecting Eurooe to the US via DUB. Emerald will reconnect the UK only. No aircraft in the 100 seat market either. Why not 5 or 6 Air Nostrum CRJs in the interim?

I still think EI sees it's guests as cargo, now more than ever!


Are EI really expecting the people of Cork to drive to Dublin in the intermittent time period to fly on a 25 minute flight to MAN, BHX etc. Farcical. I really hope U2 or FR or someone pounce and pick up the routes from Cork, similar to KL and AF etc. capitalising on EIs lack of Cork service.

MAN can also be accessed from KIR or SNN for Cork passengers.
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:00 am

Sorry but it's no stretch of the imagination at all to suggest possible support for Emerald by EI. It is one thing to bid for a contract as an existing airline.but another thing entirely to bid as a paper airline. Conor McCarthy is no fool, has contracts already with EI and knew the Stobart structure. How mych cheaper can he actually provide the service for - remember its basically a franchise fee!
I don't believe EI put Stobart out of business per say but it is also silly to believe they did not know the exact position. All of Stobarts revenue on the EI cobtract came from EI.

My comment on Air Nostrum stands. IAG could support EI with Air Nostrum but has no sway over CityJet. Not sure if Hibetnian is a 'thing' anymore. UAG grouo branded airceaft might be more acceptable over SAS branded aircraft.
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:07 am

One thing all of the above posts suggest is that EI's commitment to Ireland might not be as strong as they would like us to believe, especially the regions. Should we be surprised? Especially in light of what FR is doing at DUB, SNN,ORK,NOC and KIR!
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:11 am

shamrock350 wrote:
I think we need to move past this narrative that Aer Lingus let Stobart go bankrupt. It’s a serious stretch to suggest as such.

Stobart was an independent business that had made repeated strategic mistakes, they regularly took their eye off the ball and ended up in trouble. Stobart was on a shaky ground long before Emerald came along, they were fearful of having to compete for the contract renewal before anyone else had even expressed public interest.

The travel restrictions are what finished Stobart off, they were still in full contract with Aer Lingus and had the best part two years to get their house in order before the contract came to an end.

This idea that Aer Lingus practically orchestrated the collapse but are somehow to blame for not having a back up fully operational turboprop carrier ready and waiting from day one simply doesn’t make sense.


The talk of Aer Lingus wanting to bring in an even lower cost regional operator has been known for years, with the specifics of Conor McCarthy’s project circulating for some time already.

While Aer Lingus may not have orchestrated Stobart’s bankruptcy, they also did nothing to stop it. The known interest in the Emerald project (a purely paper airline) made it far more difficult to secure strategic investors.

This further race the bottom has just come at the expense of Irish passengers (for a bit of time at least) and especially the taxpayer with hundreds of unemployed flight crew. There is no miraculous way to run ATRs cheaper except by further cutting crew wages, and also starting at zero with no seniority.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:31 am

EIBPI wrote:
While Aer Lingus may not have orchestrated Stobart’s bankruptcy, they also did nothing to stop it. The known interest in the Emerald project (a purely paper airline) made it far more difficult to secure strategic investors.

This further race the bottom has just come at the expense of Irish passengers (for a bit of time at least) and especially the taxpayer with hundreds of unemployed flight crew. There is no miraculous way to run ATRs cheaper except by further cutting crew wages, and also starting at zero with no seniority.


Oh please, why would Aer Lingus do something to stop the bankruptcy of another company? It's like saying that if the stationery company that supplied my business was going bankrupt, I should step in and give them loans to keep them afloat. Who would do that? Nobody, that's who. You find another supplier and that's that. It really is that simple. Welcome to the world of business.

What further race to the bottom are you talking about here? You have no way of knowing Stobart Air's operating costs. Considering they had years of service as Aer Arann beforehand, you can bet that salaries and costs were higher than they will be for a new startup. It will be quite easy for Emerald to start with lower costs. I don't see what the big song and dance is over Emerald. It's all business at the end of the day.
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:38 am

I am not sure I fully understand the maths suggested? I understood EI receive a franchise fee which covers everything. I assume that that fee is a percentage of total gross revenue. If that is the case operating costs dont matter to EI, just to Emerald. On the other hand it depends on how EI report the arrangement with Emerald in their accounts.

Different point - did Stobart or any other party get to quote for the business or did EI decide to go with Emerald?
 
eidvm
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:01 am

Fliplot wrote:
I am not sure I fully understand the maths suggested? I understood EI receive a franchise fee which covers everything. I assume that that fee is a percentage of total gross revenue. If that is the case operating costs dont matter to EI, just to Emerald. On the other hand it depends on how EI report the arrangement with Emerald in their accounts.

Different point - did Stobart or any other party get to quote for the business or did EI decide to go with Emerald?


Well, operating costs come into it in determining what routes are viable or not on the regional network, there may be additional routes open to EIR now with a lower cost base that would previously have been loss making, these newer routes/increased frequencies etc help secure and feed the DUB-HUB, eg extra frequencies to NCL/EMA/EXT/LBA etc, or resuiming routes to airports such as CWL/SOU/BOH/BLK etc that were previously unprofitable on the previous cost base.

So while the cost base doesn't directly effect Aer Lingus, the ability of EIR to make a profit on different routes is a direct result of its cost base, and thus its ability to serve these routes is impacted by this.

In addition to the lower crew and staff costs that will likely result out from this, Emerald will likely also be able to negotiate better lease rates on their ATRs and probably better discounts flying to airports as they're a new airline.

It certainly is part of the race to the bottom though for staff of Stobart who were kicked out when it went bust and will now have to go back in to a new operator doing the effectively the same thing but now at the bottom rung of the salary scale. However, from what I've heard a number of the ex-Stobart flight crew anyways are already in the midst of being employed by other airlines across Europe so Emerald may struggle to recruit them back if they don't aim to start until 2023 which could cause logistical challenges.
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:14 am

ClassicLover wrote:
Oh please, why would Aer Lingus do something to stop the bankruptcy of another company? It's like saying that if the stationery company that supplied my business was going bankrupt, I should step in and give them loans to keep them afloat. Who would do that? Nobody, that's who. You find another supplier and that's that. It really is that simple. Welcome to the world of business.


There are a number of examples of mainline carriers that have stepped into to prevent their regional partners from going out of business.

Glad that’s your idea of business, but it’s probably not mine. .
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:58 am

Long haul for Aer Lingus to rebuild transatlantic network

www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-a ... -1.4639089



Ryanair CEO To Visit Shannon Airport To Outline Airline’s Future Plans

www.clare.fm/news/ryanair-ceo-visit-sha ... ure-plans/

Could Aer Lingus be about to let SNN go all FR and just keep a few seasonal TATL ops going forward ?
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:08 am

SNN to Birmingham, Luton, Budapest for winter and second aircraft. BUD/LTN served ex Cork.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:31 am

shamrock350 wrote:
I think we need to move past this narrative that Aer Lingus let Stobart go bankrupt. It’s a serious stretch to suggest as such.

Stobart was an independent business that had made repeated strategic mistakes, they regularly took their eye off the ball and ended up in trouble. Stobart was on a shaky ground long before Emerald came along, they were fearful of having to compete for the contract renewal before anyone else had even expressed public interest.

The travel restrictions are what finished Stobart off, they were still in full contract with Aer Lingus and had the best part two years to get their house in order before the contract came to an end.

This idea that Aer Lingus practically orchestrated the collapse but are somehow to blame for not having a back up fully operational turboprop carrier ready and waiting from day one simply doesn’t make sense.

I think the truth probably lies between the two, I think the story needs to be looked at in the round. EI put a tender out for the operation of their regional service. They may have always fully intended to award the contract away from Stobart, that is entirely their call. What Stobart had going for them was experience and operational reliability built over many years. What they had going against them was their history.
RE's parent company wanted out of the airline business. The parent company were interested in promoting their new airports at Southend and Carlisle, but airlines weren't biting. Aer Arann dressed up as flyBe and/or Aer Lingus achieved this and tempted both easyJet and Ryanair to SEN. With that job done Stobart/Esken had no purpose for RE and somehow stitched a deal together with private capital to sell RE to two of EI's biggest competitors - Virgin and flyBe. It doesn't take much imagination to see why EI might not have been entirely thrilled with that outcome. RE's financials were never brilliant and although RE survived the Connect Airways/flyBe liquidation, they suffered a terminal blow. The Aer Lingus flying kept RE as a going concern but the loss of the long-term contract combined with COVID inevitably meant the end of RE.
There are a lot of questions for RE's various owners around the flyBe franchise flying the Connect Airways deal and why Stobart never launched their own branded flying. Their trucks are all over the UK and Irish road network, they had/have a programme following their drivers on Channel 5. The brand awareness is enormous, if anyone has questions to answer its Stobart.

Fliplot wrote:
I think guests will vote with their feet and travel FR - because they can! I guess those in Cork will get used to the current available carriers and probably FR will upscale as opportunities present themselves. Now that we know Emerald will not start until January 23, it's strange that in IAG it was not possible to find even a few regional aircraft to assist EI then again I suppose EI has to be interested and ask.

I hope the lack of services to/from Cork is related to the runway works and there will be some sort of relaunch in the weeks coming up to the re-opening. I think the best we can hope for over the winter is a few times a week to MAN/BHX/EDI/GLA on A320s. The summer schedule for 2022 is a compete guess at this stage. Who knows how quickly Emerald will be able to ramp up operations? Aircraft and crew availability might not be a huge issue, but licensing and training and induction of all the parts of an airline cant just happen overnight.

OA260 wrote:
Ryanair CEO To Visit Shannon Airport To Outline Airline’s Future Plans

http://www.clare.fm/news/ryanair-ceo-vi ... ure-plans/

Could Aer Lingus be about to let SNN go all FR and just keep a few seasonal TATL ops going forward ?

With the crew base abolished anything could happen. Have the ground crew been outsourced/laid off at SNN too? Its essentially an outstation for EI these days and should be competitive on cost?
 
IrishLessor
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:57 am

EIBPI wrote:
shamrock350 wrote:
I think we need to move past this narrative that Aer Lingus let Stobart go bankrupt. It’s a serious stretch to suggest as such.

Stobart was an independent business that had made repeated strategic mistakes, they regularly took their eye off the ball and ended up in trouble. Stobart was on a shaky ground long before Emerald came along, they were fearful of having to compete for the contract renewal before anyone else had even expressed public interest.

The travel restrictions are what finished Stobart off, they were still in full contract with Aer Lingus and had the best part two years to get their house in order before the contract came to an end.

This idea that Aer Lingus practically orchestrated the collapse but are somehow to blame for not having a back up fully operational turboprop carrier ready and waiting from day one simply doesn’t make sense.


The talk of Aer Lingus wanting to bring in an even lower cost regional operator has been known for years, with the specifics of Conor McCarthy’s project circulating for some time already.

While Aer Lingus may not have orchestrated Stobart’s bankruptcy, they also did nothing to stop it. The known interest in the Emerald project (a purely paper airline) made it far more difficult to secure strategic investors.

This further race the bottom has just come at the expense of Irish passengers (for a bit of time at least) and especially the taxpayer with hundreds of unemployed flight crew. There is no miraculous way to run ATRs cheaper except by further cutting crew wages, and also starting at zero with no seniority.


EI-BPI

'They did nothing to stop it' were your words above.
I usually respect your comments and opinions in this forum. However, this comment is speculation and you don't have visibility of what may/ may not have went on behind the scenes. It's been a long 18 months of this pandemic, you've no idea what supports/ concessions that Aer Lingus may/ may not have provided. All I'll say is this, anybody reading this don't take this as a fact, I'm quite sure it's not. That's all I'll say.

In relation to comments about wanting to lower the cost base, Aer Lingus are bringing a franchise operator onto markets that need frequency with a smaller type and are competing an airline with a far superior cost base. Wouldn't you expect them to tender for this business and consider alternatives if they drove value?

I've no concerns about Emerald Airlines whether a 'paper airline' or not, it has a very competent leader and will be a great success.
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:52 am

IrishLessor wrote:
'They did nothing to stop it' were your words above.
I usually respect your comments and opinions in this forum. However, this comment is speculation and you don't have visibility of what may/ may not have went on behind the scenes. It's been a long 18 months of this pandemic, you've no idea what supports/ concessions that Aer Lingus may/ may not have provided. All I'll say is this, anybody reading this don't take this as a fact, I'm quite sure it's not. That's all I'll say.

In relation to comments about wanting to lower the cost base, Aer Lingus are bringing a franchise operator onto markets that need frequency with a smaller type and are competing an airline with a far superior cost base. Wouldn't you expect them to tender for this business and consider alternatives if they drove value?

I've no concerns about Emerald Airlines whether a 'paper airline' or not, it has a very competent leader and will be a great success.


I fully accept your point that nothing was not the right choice of words and certainly not a reflection of what likely went on behind the scenes.

Still, what happened in the end is that two PSO routes were left without an operator for a period, there is a substantially decreased connectivity between Ireland and the U.K. regions, and the main competitor was handed a big advantage (at least temporarily). Maybe all this won’t matter at all in the long run but I’m personally not convinced.
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:57 am

Six new Ryanair routes from Shannon this winter:
Birmingham, Budapest, Edinburgh, Fuerteventura, London Luton and Turin.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1239146/
 
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AmricanShamrok
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:27 pm

Good to see FR building back up its SNN base. BUD in particular is a nice addition. They’ve tried SNN-LTN a few times before with little success (and LTN-KIR seems to be FR’s best performing KIR route based on scheduling/capacity over the past few years, better than STN).
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:31 pm

AmricanShamrok wrote:
Good to see FR building back up its SNN base. BUD in particular is a nice addition. They’ve tried SNN-LTN a few times before with little success (and LTN-KIR seems to be FR’s best performing KIR route based on scheduling/capacity over the past few years, better than STN).


Yes, Luton has been Kerry’s tradition gateway to London. Ryanair first operated a Kerry - Luton in the early 90s. Manx Airlines then operated the route for a few years until 1998 (with ATPs), before it was relaunched by Ryanair in 2007.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:15 am

Cork could miss out on pandemic recovery due to airport closure

Cork could miss out on the post-pandemic recovery which the rest of Europe will experience, due to the planned closure of the city's airport for essential runway works, Ryanair has claimed.

www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid ... l?type=amp



Historic airport opening celebrated with spectacular air display

Welcome on board the onward flight from last Friday’s historic arrival of a brand new airport in Belfast.

www.newsletter.co.uk/heritage-and-retro ... 335703?amp

Interesting article about the opening of BHD from the archives .
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:30 am

OA260 wrote:
Cork could miss out on pandemic recovery due to airport closure

Cork could miss out on the post-pandemic recovery which the rest of Europe will experience, due to the planned closure of the city's airport for essential runway works, Ryanair has claimed.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munst ... l?type=amp


I think thats a fair assessment and something we have mentioned on the threads already, in passing. The closure of the runway seems to have come at just about teh worst possible time in terms of the recovery. At the end of the day it is work that needs to be done.
For the winter schedule EI are currently selling
LHR (28 weekly), AMS, 13x weekly, ACE 2x weekly, MUC 1x weekly from JAN, TFS 2x weekly, Malaga appears as "sold out" rather than not operating, so that might make an appearance.
ALC, BCN, BHX, BRS, DBV, DUS, EDI, GLA, FAO, LPA, LIS, MAN, NCL, NQY, NCE, PMI, CDG, RNS are all not offered.
Its not much better at FR either
ALC 2x weekly,
GDN 2x weekly,
LPL 5x weekly,
LTN 5x weekly,
STN 20 weekly,
AGP 2x weekly.
BOD, FAO, MLA, BGY, NAP, PMI and WRO all not offered.

KLM - 14 weekly to AMS (night stop)
Air France - CDG Resumes Summer 2022 (14 weekly, night stop)
Swiss - ZRH Resumes for Summer 2022 (4 weekly)
Lufthansa - Not on sale

Overall this is not a great picture. I expect some reductions on the London routes, EI might reduce the AMS frequency with the KL night stop offering? Overall its a fairly sparse offering at Cork until summer 2022. The loss of the UK regional routes is especially unfortunate, unless EI and FR have clever ideas about using their spare capacity.
 
EIBPI
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:52 am

BrianDromey wrote:
ALC, BCN, BHX, BRS, DBV, DUS, EDI, GLA, FAO, LPA, LIS, MAN, NCL, NQY, NCE, PMI, CDG, RNS are all not offered.


When was Cork - Dusseldorf actually last operated by Aer Lingus? It must be quite a while at this stage because I don't think it lasted many seasons after launch in 2016.
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:26 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Cork could miss out on pandemic recovery due to airport closure

Cork could miss out on the post-pandemic recovery which the rest of Europe will experience, due to the planned closure of the city's airport for essential runway works, Ryanair has claimed.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munst ... l?type=amp


I think thats a fair assessment and something we have mentioned on the threads already, in passing. The closure of the runway seems to have come at just about teh worst possible time in terms of the recovery. At the end of the day it is work that needs to be done.
For the winter schedule EI are currently selling
LHR (28 weekly), AMS, 13x weekly, ACE 2x weekly, MUC 1x weekly from JAN, TFS 2x weekly, Malaga appears as "sold out" rather than not operating, so that might make an appearance.
ALC, BCN, BHX, BRS, DBV, DUS, EDI, GLA, FAO, LPA, LIS, MAN, NCL, NQY, NCE, PMI, CDG, RNS are all not offered.
Its not much better at FR either
ALC 2x weekly,
GDN 2x weekly,
LPL 5x weekly,
LTN 5x weekly,
STN 20 weekly,
AGP 2x weekly.
BOD, FAO, MLA, BGY, NAP, PMI and WRO all not offered.

KLM - 14 weekly to AMS (night stop)
Air France - CDG Resumes Summer 2022 (14 weekly, night stop)
Swiss - ZRH Resumes for Summer 2022 (4 weekly)
Lufthansa - Not on sale

Overall this is not a great picture. I expect some reductions on the London routes, EI might reduce the AMS frequency with the KL night stop offering? Overall its a fairly sparse offering at Cork until summer 2022. The loss of the UK regional routes is especially unfortunate, unless EI and FR have clever ideas about using their spare capacity.


Its got merit but equally just Ryanair been overly dramatic to pressure daa on fees. I am sure airlines will return to Cork and if anything its the best time to do the work.
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:55 pm

Don't know if it's the best time for the work but it needs to be done. Sorry they are not adding length as well. I think Cork will be fine. The main players have returned or are returning. A number of new over night stops is positive news.
It's the UK connections that are struggling! And one has to assume that EI and FR will compete for the UK routes!
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:16 pm

Fliplot wrote:
It's the UK connections that are struggling! And one has to assume that EI and FR will compete for the UK routes!


Indeed, the UK connections are struggling and Im sure LH and AF will be back too - they seem to be offering great fares and surprisingly high frequency until the runway closure, which is more or less the end of the Summer Season (such that it is this year).

Cork-UK flights are fairly short and can be slotted in between other, longer rotations. Whats on sale right now is little more than a forlorn hope in many cases. What does look certain is that the FR base at Cork is closed - STN flights are being operated by STN overnights and LGW is not on sale. The 3x RE AT7's are also gone and the EI base is a 2 aircraft base for the winter. Maybe 3 if they offer a BHD-type operation on the regional routes.

On the more positive side I think almost all of the EIR network will be eligible for significant support, it a discount of 100% for routes not operated in the previous 12 months. I think only LPL, LHR, LTN and STN have operated in the past 12 months, but I could have missed something. Does anyone know when Stobart last operated flights from Cork?
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:47 pm

AF are due back and with an overnight stop. Nithing from LH yet byt can't see them not returning! I always thought LOT might add Cork. Will IB return?
 
factsonly
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:49 am

SUNDAY August 8th, 2021:

KLM exchanges B789 aircraft for maintenance at DUB:

- arr. 08.55 KL 9873 AMS B787-9 KLM PH-BHL
- dep. 10.15 KL 9872 AMS B787-9 KLM PH-BHC

https://www.flightradar24.com/KLM9873/28b492bb
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:21 am

A Clare TD has said hope is not lost when it comes to restoring Aer Lingus’ base at Shannon Airport.

On Friday, Taoiseach Mícheál Martin (FF) held a virtual meeting with four representatives of the Aer Lingus cabin crew based at Shannon Airport.

www.clareecho.ie/hope-not-lost-for-rest ... ase-crowe/
 
EISG1129
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:31 pm

Had my first trip with Amapola from DUB to CFN earlier today. I'm going to spend the night in Donegal and fly back tomorrow. Quite an enjoyable first flight on a Fokker 50. First impressions are that they were a very good operator. Flight was on time. The sole member of cabin crew was very pleasant and apologised for not providing tea/coffee as an infection control measure. Flight deck provided an update and thanked passengers for flying Amapola about 10 minutes before landing. There were only 15 passengers on the flight. I don't know if that is typical of the route or not, as it's about 10 years since I last flew into CFN. Based on my first impressions I'd quite happily fly with them again.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:49 pm

EISG1129 wrote:
Had my first trip with Amapola from DUB to CFN earlier today. I'm going to spend the night in Donegal and fly back tomorrow. Quite an enjoyable first flight on a Fokker 50. First impressions are that they were a very good operator. Flight was on time. The sole member of cabin crew was very pleasant and apologised for not providing tea/coffee as an infection control measure. Flight deck provided an update and thanked passengers for flying Amapola about 10 minutes before landing. There were only 15 passengers on the flight. I don't know if that is typical of the route or not, as it's about 10 years since I last flew into CFN. Based on my first impressions I'd quite happily fly with them again.


Great to hear some first hand experience on the flight. I was curious about what hey were providing on board, as their website doesn't really have anything written for the Irish route. I'm looking forward to flying it next month. Where are you spending the night in Donegal?
 
EISG1129
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:43 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
Great to hear some first hand experience on the flight. I was curious about what hey were providing on board, as their website doesn't really have anything written for the Irish route. I'm looking forward to flying it next month. Where are you spending the night in Donegal?


I'm staying not too far from CFN in Caislean Oir Hotel in Annagary. It seems to be the nearest hotel to the airport. I think it was mentioned here in the Irish thread a few months back as somewhere a contributor had stayed when visiting CFN, although I'm not 100% certain at this stage. It's about a 4km walk from the airport.

It's a nice hotel (and they do a decent curry). Only thing I would say is that latest check out is at 11am and the afternoon flight now isn't until 16.40 on weekdays, so if the weather tomorrow is anything like it is today, I'm really left with no option other than to loiter in CFN airport and drink coffee for a few hours. (They aren't doing late check outs at the moment to allow for sufficient cleaning of rooms for afternoon arrivals which, in fairness, I understand).
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:09 pm

EISG1129 wrote:
I'm staying not too far from CFN in Caislean Oir Hotel in Annagary. It seems to be the nearest hotel to the airport. I think it was mentioned here in the Irish thread a few months back as somewhere a contributor had stayed when visiting CFN, although I'm not 100% certain at this stage. It's about a 4km walk from the airport.

It's a nice hotel (and they do a decent curry). Only thing I would say is that latest check out is at 11am and the afternoon flight now isn't until 16.40 on weekdays, so if the weather tomorrow is anything like it is today, I'm really left with no option other than to loiter in CFN airport and drink coffee for a few hours. (They aren't doing late check outs at the moment to allow for sufficient cleaning of rooms for afternoon arrivals which, in fairness, I understand).


Yes, it was me who mentioned it, as that's where I stayed when I flew up to CFN a couple of years back with Aer Lingus Regional. I walked to and from the airport - though I lucked out with clear enough weather. Glad to hear the food is still good! It's where I'm staying again next month when I head up there with a couple of aviation friends.

Thanks for the tip regarding the check out time - makes sense they'd need extra time. You could always go for a dip in the sea at Carrickfinn Beach to pass the time if you had your swimmers with you and the weather wasn't too bad. I really would like to do that, but imagine it being a little chilly.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:10 pm

Interesting to see Aer Lingus double up on the A321s yesterday and today to BOS.
 
dubsfo
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:42 pm

Anyone know when the EI SFO flight might start up again? Looks like it hasn't flown since mid May
I'm booked on a flight September 15th but a friend who's going out 2 days before said he just had his trip cancelled.
 
ATRDriver21
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:33 am

There seems to be some confusion regarding what actually happened with Stobart Air (or at least what we can guess happened) This is an overview from the perspective of the staff, It’s a pretty messy and complicated situation…

Stobart Air was owned 51% by an Employee Benefit Trust, which none of the staff were made aware of until months after its inception and the benefit to the employees was never mentioned, the other 49% was owned by Connect Airways. When Flybe went into administration, Connect Airways followed and the 49% share was promptly bought by Stobart Group (now Esken) to take control of liabilities which would crystallise if Stobart Air was to collapse.

By this point the majority of services had been cancelled due to COVID and all but a handful of crew were furloughed in the UK or on the PUP in ROI. Communication was dire with little to no updates. A redundancy process was initiated, then the Belfast operation was announced which resulted in the cancellation of redundancies in the ROI (because crew were basically blackmailed into moving to Belfast on a reduced salary, it was that or face redundancy) and some from Southend and IOM moved across, however the majority from Southend took redundancy.

Most Belfast crews started in September and October, only to then be laid off again at the start of November, from 5 lines of flying down to 3, then down to 2 in January. Communication remained poor despite press reports that we had been put up for sale by Esken, which were later confirmed by Esken. Whilst this was all happening the EI Regional contract was up for tender. Management seemed to be arrogantly confident that we would get the contract. Stobart did bid, as did others such as Cityjet and Air Nostrum (I believe). Obviously as Stobart had operated the routes and developed the service, our bid came a close second due to the operational performance delivered, behind Emerald.

Reading between the lines, EI was generally very happy with how the service was delivered and the day to day operation, they were less happy with the management team at Stobart and the management team at Esken (read Warwick Brady) however it seems that Emerald got the contract for three reasons.

1. They were sharper on price, I don’t know the specifics, but they came in cheaper.
2. Why would Aer Lingus award the contract to an Airline with poor finances, which was about to be sold, most probably to a company who hadn’t been awarded the EIR contract.
3. Connor Mccarthy is a very well regarded individual in Irish aviation, has extensive agreements already with EI, Has a history with Irish regional aviation and the ability to deliver. - Emerald was a paper airline, but one that had the people, knowledge and finances to make it a reality.

Emerald was notified as preferred bidder in December, from there Stobart’s days were numbered. Apparently Esken threatened to pull the funding in February as a buyer hadn’t been found, the company nearly collapsed, before Ettyl stepped in and offered to buy Stobart Air from Esken, Ettyl would of continued the EI Regional contract, handed that over to Emerald in 2023 before carving its own path. However as Ettyl’s funding fell through due to a criminal investigation, Ettyl wasn’t able to complete the transaction and Esken pulled all funding, having rearranged the liabilities which would have pulled them under. Neither Esken nor Stobart Air explored alternative options, the management teams let staff, passengers and EI down by accepting defeat and blaming their shortcomings on COVID.

I know a handful of crew have got other flying jobs, however the majority haven’t. Most will be trying, eagerly, to get a job with Emerald, especially if they, like me, are still owed in the region of €23,000 from what’s left of the company. Emerald will most probably have some form of operation by Q1 2022 with a ramp up to “full“ services by the end of 2022, it sounds slow, but I’s need to be dotted and T’s need to be crossed.

EI isn’t to blame for the collapse, they made a sound business decision by placing the contract in safer hands and protecting their long term feed into DUB. The management teams at Esken and Stobart Air most definitely are to blame, they engineered the situation where Stobart Air would never get the EIR contract and they could let the company fall into liquidation at minimal cost to Esken. I don’t miss working for the Management Team, but I most certainly do miss the fantastic crews and teams who not only made it all work, but made going into work fun and worthwhile. Stobart was my first flying job, it was an incredible experience and I was so lucky to fly with some of the most generous, genuinely decent and brilliant colleagues.
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:04 am

Thank you ATRDriver21
I wish you every sucess in the job market and if it is to be Emerald - good luck!

I was in DUB yesterday, from 5.20 to 6.45. It was deathly quiet. Two things that were unusual. Ten people is now a crowd and FR dominated the flight operations. More than 50% of those arriving were visitors and car rentals had ddecent queues - relative to the numbers at the airport.

The EI new uniform looks much better in daylight but I am not sure it will wear well. The green on green looks okay but the green on navy looks good.
 
dstc47
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:23 am

Nice post ATRDriver21.
Best wishes for the future and glad to hear that you had so many positive experiences with the Stobart flight crew you worked with.
They and you deserved better and perhaps, without Covid, that might have happened.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:24 am

I won't do a trip report, but just a few quick observations on my LHR-ORK flight on Friday. I booked with Avios, which is normally not a great deal but given the prices of the flights and the included luggage it made some sense.
The pre-flight e-mails for people who booked with Avios are non-existant and information on the OLCI is confusing, directly contradicting the 20KG allowance on the e-ticket. I didn't try to assign a seat in advance. The carry-on allowance is also quite misleading, only mentioning that the carry-on bad has to be checked-in at the very end of the paragraph.
The check-in area at T2 is clearly struggling with the number of new airlines and increased numbers of passengers. There is no-where for even a few passengers to queue and EI are down to just 4 desks, which were staffed. In fairness, all the desks seem in use by other airlines too. Security was very quiet, although most shops and bars in the departures area were open there was quite a few passengers milling around.
Great flight with a fantastic crew, they were clearly enjoying doing their job and looked very smart in their fresh uniform. EI-GAL was spotless but has a strange rail under the overhead bins between rows 6 and 16ish. I guess from its previous life with Aeroflot.
Cork airport is very quiet, but as mentioned upthread demand for rental cars seems high. That would explain the prices for this summer, combined with a lot of cars being sold off earlier in the pandemic too.

ATRDriver21 wrote:
There seems to be some confusion regarding what actually happened with Stobart Air (or at least what we can guess happened) This is an overview from the perspective of the staff, It’s a pretty messy and complicated situation…


Thanks for the post ATRDriver21. Its good to hear a first hand account of what happened from people with first hand experience of the situation. Im sure more will come out over time, but essentially the parent group wanted to protect their own interests and strategic aims, unfortunately Stobart Air just wasn't one of them. Loosing the EIR contract was bound to be a near-fatal blow for any airline, but terminal in the context of an airline with an unprecedented global pandemic, a shut-down of the industry, a failed merger with a rival and a parent company with their own issues. I really feel for the staff and crews, who were excellent over the years I had been travelling with them.
It might be worth pointing out that Stobart Air was owned by Esken, formerly Stobart Group. This is a different company to Eddie Stobart Logistics, who operate the trucks we are all so familiar with. The wikipedia article is an intrigue of characters, boardroom dramas and renaming.
 
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AirbusA343
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:26 am

I'm about to board TK1976, operated by an A333. I never imagined I'd ever be on a widebody on this route! The load factor is not too bad for the times we are in, especially for an A330-300 - would guess the load factor is around 50-60%.
 
BestWestern
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:01 am

Whatever sort of relationship EI and Stobart had was killed by their beyond crazy Virgin Express 3.0 concept.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:36 am

Decent enough flight back to DUB with EI. Premium seats again and was welcome on this late flight. J section 100% full and 85% full down the back. That must be some welcome relief for EI. Check in was a mess though with people not having their PLF to hand or trying to fill it out at the desk. This should not be allowed and they should make them stand aside and get those ready checked in . It took triple the amount of time. They need someone going down the line checking before delaying everyone at the desk .

At the boarding gate the screen said no catering onboard but everyone at least in J section got what they wanted which was drinks and snacks. No sandwiches available. They did announce that due to demand on the outbound they had sold a lot of things.

Again the demographic of the passengers were a few families / singles and couples 40+ .


Image
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:21 pm

I simply don't get it. How is it possible to run out of stock for a return journey, especially ex base? It's a revenue centre for them so you would imagine they would be pushing it. And it's not a covid thing, its been am EI problem for years.
FR dont run out but then they understand the value of money!

Is there an online location for the PLF?
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:05 pm

Fliplot wrote:
I simply don't get it. How is it possible to run out of stock for a return journey, especially ex base? It's a revenue centre for them so you would imagine they would be pushing it. And it's not a covid thing, its been am EI problem for years.
FR dont run out but then they understand the value of money!

Is there an online location for the PLF?


Yes it can be completed online.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:13 pm

Fliplot wrote:
I simply don't get it. How is it possible to run out of stock for a return journey, especially ex base? It's a revenue centre for them so you would imagine they would be pushing it. And it's not a covid thing, its been am EI problem for years.
FR dont run out but then they understand the value of money!?


I remember vividly a Ryanair flight many years ago where I ordered a burger. The burger consisted of top bun, bottom bun and "meat". That's it, no salad, no condiments and nothing else. Anyway, the package had an expiry date about nine years into the future. I was gobsmacked that such a long expiry date on any food product was possible. So perhaps it's because Ryanair have food that is very long life is why they never run out :)
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:23 pm

You could say the same about any packaged item in a shop/supermarket! Why engage a named chef, produce a decent menu/brochure and then fail to supply? I am not anti EI I am anti poor service or simple laziness.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:48 pm

Fliplot wrote:
You could say the same about any packaged item in a shop/supermarket! Why engage a named chef, produce a decent menu/brochure and then fail to supply? I am not anti EI I am anti poor service or simple laziness.


At the moment there is no magazine, food brochure or menu. An announcement apologies that sandwiches or hoot food are not currently offered. Its basically Tea/Coffee/Bar and limited snacks (Dairy Milk and Twix we're offered when I asked about chocolate). I don't know about snack boxes, etc. I think it is fairly similar to the Regional variant of the Bia menu, which had no hot or fresh food. They seem to be doing a decent trade in Duty Free Jameson and Benson & Hedges though.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:22 pm

Fliplot wrote:

Is there an online location for the PLF?


The only way to do the PLF is online its gone paperless now and anyone using an old paper one can be denied entry .
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 8/21: Irish Aviation Thread - August 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:29 pm

Fine if all other carriers are providing a similar service but they are not. Most are back serving hot food and all the ancillary items. I thought that if you were fighting for bums on seats you would not fail to serve food or charge for hand bags. You would do your best to enhance your services.
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