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Aresxerexade
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Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:08 pm

Over the weekend, a passenger aboard a Frontier Airlines flight from Philadelphia to Miami has been charged with three counts of battery. The passenger is accused of inappropriately touching two female flight attendants and punching a male attendant on Saturday. The flight crew then restrained the unruly passenger and used tape to ensure he stayed seated for the remainder of the flight.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/fron ... index.html


The unfriendly skies of the roaring 20’s. sigh
 
cynlb
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:38 pm

I hope that passenger is banned from flying
 
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Aresxerexade
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:50 pm

cynlb wrote:
I hope that passenger is banned from flying


Yes please
 
doulasc
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:23 pm

What made him think he was going to get away with this there's just no morals and values of these days when you get banned from flying is it only on just that Airline or on all Airlines
 
travelsonic
Posts: 158
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:36 pm

doulasc wrote:
there's just no morals and values of these days


Meh, I wouldn't go that far in terms of stating a generality about society, but maybe I'm being too analytical, and taking things too literally.
 
Pi7472000
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:44 pm

I wonder if the government needs to start a tax on each purchased ticket and then require airlines to provide a security guard on every flight. Is it the role of FAs to act as security personnel that break up physical altercations?
 
Chuska
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:18 pm

After 9/11, Federal Air Marshalls began flying certain flights. Are they still around? They're much needed now.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:38 pm

Pi7472000 wrote:
I wonder if the government needs to start a tax on each purchased ticket and then require airlines to provide a security guard on every flight. Is it the role of FAs to act as security personnel that break up physical altercations?


If the airline is providing the security, then what exactly are you taxing for? I'm not a fan of that idea
 
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IceCream
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:40 pm

I'd hope that aircraft altercations are still pretty rare. Anyone who acts like this should be banned from flying.
 
reltney
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:48 am

Karma baby…budget airline…budget passengers…what could go wrong…
 
727231
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:58 am

Chuska wrote:
After 9/11, Federal Air Marshalls began flying certain flights. Are they still around? They're much needed now.



Not sure if still around as they were a few years ago but air marshalls are not to get involved in a situation as this becasue it could be a rouse to have air marshalls ID themselves to what may indeed be leading to a real highjacking. A gang could have one guy cause a disturbance and his gang could jump up and take the air marshalls, then the plane.

Yeah I know there have been instances of air marshalls jumping in and helping out when some nut job starts going bonkers but they are really not to do so. And I know of the airplane cockpit doors, but still.
 
ewt340
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:28 am

The best thing they could do is to increase the income tax of this person to 70%. That's the only way many Americans would showed remorse. High tax.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:51 am

Watched this video of the same incident the other day:- https://www.facebook.com/188249054993/v ... 7928663380

I hope the male flight attedant job is reinstated. Does the US has a centrailised "list of undesired passenger"?
 
slider
Posts: 7753
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:01 pm

This video and story is completely disturbing on so many levels.

1) If this guy groped multiple FAs, including two female FAs on their breasts, that's battery and, probably sexual assault. Why did the flight continue past the FIRST such event?

2) Did the FAs communicate with the flight deck? This should have been an immediate level 4 diversion. Why did the flight continue all the way to MIA?

3) Where did the duct tape come from and why didn't the crew use the riot cuffs that all airlines have onboard?

4) Taping him TO his seat is a violation of so many regulations, not the least of which if obvious in the event of an evacuation.

5) This guy should absolutely be placed on F9's lifetime ban list, no question. He is to blame for his actions. But the crew did not do the right thing and this idiot will have some recourse. I also hope the FAs sue him in turn as well.

6) If they needed to duct tape him tactically just to secure the situation, fine. Then untape him, secure him using the proper means. Get help with other pax if need be. But if he was that much of a security risk and issue, then this plane should have landed immediately.

The after action and investigation on this one will be interesting to watch.
 
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STT757
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:03 pm

These people should be put on the National No fly list.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:07 pm

Chuska wrote:
After 9/11, Federal Air Marshalls began flying certain flights. Are they still around? They're much needed now.


Yes
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 6581
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:12 pm

STT757 wrote:
These people should be put on the National No fly list.



That’s the problem we’ve moved into an era of no consequences.

I have had 4 LAV smoke warnings in the cockpit in the past couple of months.

That means a person is smoking or vaping. Occasionally something like perfume could set it off but you would know that the minute you open the lavatory door.

Every time I ask air traffic control to have authorities meet the plane.

That is the only way to get police to the gate.

If I ask my airline I will get some hippie dippy customer service agent that does nothing.

And for those that don’t fly an airplane, when that warning goes off, it is a full-fledged fire warning that puts you right into emergency mode. It is not a joke, it isn’t not a big deal.

But that’s who we have flying now
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:19 pm

STT757 wrote:
These people should be put on the National No fly list.


100% agreed. These individuals should be placed on a permanent no fly list and given the option to appeal (depending on the nature of the incident they caused) no sooner than 10 years from the date of the incident. This has to stop.
 
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STT757
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:19 pm

727231 wrote:
Chuska wrote:
After 9/11, Federal Air Marshalls began flying certain flights. Are they still around? They're much needed now.



Not sure if still around as they were a few years ago but air marshalls are not to get involved in a situation as this becasue it could be a rouse to have air marshalls ID themselves to what may indeed be leading to a real highjacking. A gang could have one guy cause a disturbance and his gang could jump up and take the air marshalls, then the plane.

Yeah I know there have been instances of air marshalls jumping in and helping out when some nut job starts going bonkers but they are really not to do so. And I know of the airplane cockpit doors, but still.


100%, I actually know of LEO's using the tactic themselves in a public place to swipe a subject's laptop while he was distracted by an altercation which was actually undercover agents. The Air Marshall's are not there for drunks, Karens etc.. They're trained to counter terrorist utilizing quick, accurate lethal force.
 
slider
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:36 pm

STT757 wrote:
These people should be put on the National No fly list.


In principle, I don't disagree.

But how do you administer this? The DHS No-Fly list is geared to terrorists, not drunk people on airplanes.

Also, if one airline deems a passenger is worthy of a lifetime ban, will another airline recognize that? I hate bureaucracy, but if a coalition of airlines managed this on a voluntary basis, perhaps it would have teeth.

For instance, will Berry be flagged by AA, DL, UA, etc as a result? There is just a practical consideration to contemplate when saying "national no fly list." It's quite a conundrum.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:40 pm

slider wrote:
STT757 wrote:
These people should be put on the National No fly list.


In principle, I don't disagree.

But how do you administer this? The DHS No-Fly list is geared to terrorists, not drunk people on airplanes.

Also, if one airline deems a passenger is worthy of a lifetime ban, will another airline recognize that? I hate bureaucracy, but if a coalition of airlines managed this on a voluntary basis, perhaps it would have teeth.

For instance, will Berry be flagged by AA, DL, UA, etc as a result? There is just a practical consideration to contemplate when saying "national no fly list." It's quite a conundrum.


Agree with your observations in the earlier post - I think sexual battery warrants an immediate diversion to get law enforcement involved. Asking the affected employees to continue on is unconscionable.

It's possible DOT could administer a no-fly list for airborne miscreants - that would negate the possibility of some airlines wanting to opt out of an independent oversight body.
 
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zeke
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:05 am

An interview with one of the crew

https://youtu.be/XFoXmnBuLw0

I understand the airline’s position as this event escalated so quickly it is unlikely the normal procedure would have been followed.

However restraining the passenger would have been the end result if the process had been followed.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 401
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:43 am

zeke wrote:
An interview with one of the crew

https://youtu.be/XFoXmnBuLw0

I understand the airline’s position as this event escalated so quickly it is unlikely the normal procedure would have been followed.

However restraining the passenger would have been the end result if the process had been followed.

Not really a F9 crew member, but he is AWESOME!! Hysterical
 
jeffrey1970
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:29 am

While this should have never happened airlines need to study what the underlying reasons are for incidents like this. They should do this so that they can take preventative measures so that situations like this don't happen as much, and passengers can have a much better experience.
 
slider
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:54 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
slider wrote:
STT757 wrote:
These people should be put on the National No fly list.


In principle, I don't disagree.

But how do you administer this? The DHS No-Fly list is geared to terrorists, not drunk people on airplanes.

Also, if one airline deems a passenger is worthy of a lifetime ban, will another airline recognize that? I hate bureaucracy, but if a coalition of airlines managed this on a voluntary basis, perhaps it would have teeth.

For instance, will Berry be flagged by AA, DL, UA, etc as a result? There is just a practical consideration to contemplate when saying "national no fly list." It's quite a conundrum.


Agree with your observations in the earlier post - I think sexual battery warrants an immediate diversion to get law enforcement involved. Asking the affected employees to continue on is unconscionable.

It's possible DOT could administer a no-fly list for airborne miscreants - that would negate the possibility of some airlines wanting to opt out of an independent oversight body.


For me, especially considering my own airline experience, if a passenger gropes a tit, that's an IMMEDIATE diversion.

Put the plane down, solve the problem. I'll avoid recrimination for now since we don't have all the facts or timeline, but for as much as that douchenozzle deserves severe punishment, the crew violated SO many rules in this event. I'm flabbergasted, actually.
 
Spetsnaz55
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:38 am

Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:31 pm

zeke wrote:
An interview with one of the crew

https://youtu.be/XFoXmnBuLw0

I understand the airline’s position as this event escalated so quickly it is unlikely the normal procedure would have been followed.

However restraining the passenger would have been the end result if the process had been followed.


He is a comedian and that is a satire video.
 
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zeke
Posts: 16446
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:35 pm

Spetsnaz55 wrote:

He is a comedian and that is a satire video.


He is very good, I had a good laugh. “Smell of regret”
 
jeffrey1970
Posts: 1527
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 1:41 am

Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:09 pm

slider wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
slider wrote:

In principle, I don't disagree.

But how do you administer this? The DHS No-Fly list is geared to terrorists, not drunk people on airplanes.

Also, if one airline deems a passenger is worthy of a lifetime ban, will another airline recognize that? I hate bureaucracy, but if a coalition of airlines managed this on a voluntary basis, perhaps it would have teeth.

For instance, will Berry be flagged by AA, DL, UA, etc as a result? There is just a practical consideration to contemplate when saying "national no fly list." It's quite a conundrum.


Agree with your observations in the earlier post - I think sexual battery warrants an immediate diversion to get law enforcement involved. Asking the affected employees to continue on is unconscionable.

It's possible DOT could administer a no-fly list for airborne miscreants - that would negate the possibility of some airlines wanting to opt out of an independent oversight body.


For me, especially considering my own airline experience, if a passenger gropes a tit, that's an IMMEDIATE diversion.

Put the plane down, solve the problem. I'll avoid recrimination for now since we don't have all the facts or timeline, but for as much as that douchenozzle deserves severe punishment, the crew violated SO many rules in this event. I'm flabbergasted, actually.


I know the FAA doesn't allow the US Marshals to handcuff prisoners to their seats during flights.
 
GDB
Posts: 14410
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:06 am

A big increase in flying Chads and Karens;

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... passengers

Note the reported comment how how wealthy his parents are, there it is, entitlement, why not as it works doesn't it?
 
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zkojq
Posts: 4741
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Re: Frontier Airlines unruly incident FL2239

Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:41 pm

slider wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Agree with your observations in the earlier post - I think sexual battery warrants an immediate diversion to get law enforcement involved. Asking the affected employees to continue on is unconscionable.

It's possible DOT could administer a no-fly list for airborne miscreants - that would negate the possibility of some airlines wanting to opt out of an independent oversight body.


For me, especially considering my own airline experience, if a passenger gropes a tit, that's an IMMEDIATE diversion.

Put the plane down, solve the problem. I'll avoid recrimination for now since we don't have all the facts or timeline, but for as much as that douchenozzle deserves severe punishment, the crew violated SO many rules in this event. I'm flabbergasted, actually.


Agreed. I don't think it's reasonable to expect crew members to go back to "normal duties" immediately after being assaulted (either in terms of a physical altercation or groping - in this case it was supposedly both). I don't obviously have the info available to me that he flight crew have, but I'd have thought that a prompt diversion would be appropriate.

Regarding the tape, I don't think you can easily/safely remove it and put the zip-ties on if the perpetrator is still trying to resist arrest. Which is presumably one of the reasons why it's against SOPs in the first place.

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