They're getting younger. Seems he tried kicking out a window.

https://news.yahoo.com/watch-american-a ... 31364.html

Good. Now, ban this fool from flying for 10-15 years, fine him a fortune. Never too early to learn.

Who is the biggest duct tape supplier to airlines? 3M? They could expect more duct tape orders soon.

Looking forward to 'flight to MIA diverted as 2 year old causes disturbances'.

Looks like Duct Tape is becoming SOP for these cases.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Good. Now, ban this fool from flying for 10-15 years, fine him a fortune. Never too early to learn.

Really? This is a minor - clearly one with some serious behavioral challenges. And you can't fine a minor (what problem does it solve for his parents to have to pay for this - I'm sure this isn't the first challenge he has posed for them) - what recourse does he have to pay the fine? Talk about a ridiculous suggestion. You don't know any details of what transpired or led up to the event. Let's avoid these outrageous knee-jerk reactions which are all too common these days.

Jeremy

Spare the rod spoil the child

cynlb wrote:

Spare the rod spoil the child

I don't think we have enough info on this. Beatings don't cure autism, for example.

jeffrey0032j wrote:

Who is the biggest duct tape supplier to airlines? 3M? They could expect more duct tape orders soon.

And sadly, the airlines are on the way to becoming 3M's largest duct tape customer!

Duct taping any passenger to a seat, as happened on F9 last week, and now on AA this week seems like a huge liability issue. What happens in the event of an emergency evacuation if crew can't get the tape removed in time and the passenger is stuck?

OA412 wrote:

Duct taping any passenger to a seat, as happened on F9 last week, and now on AA this week seems like a huge liability issue. What happens in the event of an emergency evacuation if crew can't get the tape removed in time and the passenger is stuck?

I was going to say the exact same thing. I suppose they condemn them to die in the event of an evacuation, death penalty it would seem.

It's worth noting that criminal prosecution can be brought against a minor. Would the US attorney do so in this case is another matter.

As a side note, it's interesting the flight took off at 1230. The problem started an hour later (130). Then the flight landed at 347 (per news article). You'd think they'd have been almost closer to LAX if they had kept flying.

Maybe circled to burn fuel? If they had to, they could land overweight?

Article says that pax were re-accommodated on another flight, so presumably crew timed out?

ikolkyo wrote:

Looks like Duct Tape is becoming SOP for these cases.

This is not a good thing.

MrHMSH wrote:

Looking forward to 'flight to MIA diverted as 2 year old causes disturbances'.

Im sure its coming.....

OA412 wrote:

Duct taping any passenger to a seat, as happened on F9 last week, and now on AA this week seems like a huge liability issue. What happens in the event of an emergency evacuation if crew can't get the tape removed in time and the passenger is stuck?

I do wonder what the alternative is when said person is physically violent. Let them loose?
I’d figure after duct tapping they would cuff their hands together and then remove the duct tape

OA412 wrote:

Duct taping any passenger to a seat, as happened on F9 last week, and now on AA this week seems like a huge liability issue. What happens in the event of an emergency evacuation if crew can't get the tape removed in time and the passenger is stuck?

I believe it's a FAR/CFR that you can't 'permanently attach' anyone or anything to a seat. Flex cuff or tape their arms behind their back and buckled into their seat I believe would be SOP. Tape their legs together as well...but that wouldn't prevent them from kicking the seat in front of them. Put mom or dad in that seat.

Whats with all the duct tape lately? I thought they used twist ties.

Is this a problem world wide or more of a problem in the U.S?

Rookie87 wrote:

OA412 wrote:

Duct taping any passenger to a seat, as happened on F9 last week, and now on AA this week seems like a huge liability issue. What happens in the event of an emergency evacuation if crew can't get the tape removed in time and the passenger is stuck?

I do wonder what the alternative is when said person is physically violent. Let them loose?
I’d figure after duct tapping they would cuff their hands together and then remove the duct tape

I have a friend who is a former AS flight attendant and this subject came up in a conversation last week after the other duct tape incident. She was adamantly opposed to the idea saying there is an SOP (at AS anyway) on how to handle these situations. They have handcuffs on board and that would be the method of restraint they would use. I have no idea if that's industry standard - I thought that most have zip ties. I brought that up and she said no zip ties at AS, handcuffs instead.

You would almost think Flight Attendants should have other means of restraint by now. Like a special seat belt or something that hold the unrully passenger in place. I would have thought post-9/11 something like that would be provided to them, but perhaps this is the catalyst for something better than duct tape.

ER757 wrote:

Rookie87 wrote:

OA412 wrote:

Duct taping any passenger to a seat, as happened on F9 last week, and now on AA this week seems like a huge liability issue. What happens in the event of an emergency evacuation if crew can't get the tape removed in time and the passenger is stuck?

I do wonder what the alternative is when said person is physically violent. Let them loose?
I’d figure after duct tapping they would cuff their hands together and then remove the duct tape

I have a friend who is a former AS flight attendant and this subject came up in a conversation last week after the other duct tape incident. She was adamantly opposed to the idea saying there is an SOP (at AS anyway) on how to handle these situations. They have handcuffs on board and that would be the method of restraint they would use. I have no idea if that's industry standard - I thought that most have zip ties. I brought that up and she said no zip ties at AS, handcuffs instead.

At my airline, we have restraint devices that are basically oversized zipties. They come with a tool to remove the restraints in the case of an evacuation, or if they are applied to tightly.

The SOP is that a person is never to be restrained to any fixed part of the aircraft. They can have their arms tied together and their legs tied together, but they can't be tied to a seat or armrest. Once their restrained the idea is that they can be buckled in to a seat with the seatbelt around their body, and they won't be going anywhere.

Rookie87 wrote:

OA412 wrote:

Duct taping any passenger to a seat, as happened on F9 last week, and now on AA this week seems like a huge liability issue. What happens in the event of an emergency evacuation if crew can't get the tape removed in time and the passenger is stuck?

I do wonder what the alternative is when said person is physically violent. Let them loose?
I’d figure after duct tapping they would cuff their hands together and then remove the duct tape

Plus, an emergency evacuation is an extremely rare event.

PHLspecial wrote:

Is this a problem world wide or more of a problem in the U.S?

While I don't know the frequency, I know it happened a few years back on a Korean Air flight where a passenger had to be tied to his seat. What's sad is the main reason I know about is because I'm a fan of Richard Marx (remember him???), follow him on social media, and his wife took pictures of him on the plane helping tie the guy down. "wherever you go...whatever you do...I will be right there waiting to tie you up."

OA412 wrote:

Duct taping any passenger to a seat, as happened on F9 last week, and now on AA this week seems like a huge liability issue. What happens in the event of an emergency evacuation if crew can't get the tape removed in time and the passenger is stuck?

Agree. I believe the male flight attendant on F9 occupied the aisle seat opposite the duct taped guy. Seems this is the procedure to ensure the restrained person and be evacuated.

OA412 wrote:

Duct taping any passenger to a seat, as happened on F9 last week, and now on AA this week seems like a huge liability issue. What happens in the event of an emergency evacuation if crew can't get the tape removed in time and the passenger is stuck?

I'm willing to bet its against regulations to duct tape anyone to their seat exactly for the reasons you mentioned. Just like a prisoner being transported by air can be handcuffed together, but not "cuffed" to their seat.

luckyone wrote:

PHLspecial wrote:

Is this a problem world wide or more of a problem in the U.S?

While I don't know the frequency, I know it happened a few years back on a Korean Air flight where a passenger had to be tied to his seat. What's sad is the main reason I know about is because I'm a fan of Richard Marx (remember him???), follow him on social media, and his wife took pictures of him on the plane helping tie the guy down. "wherever you go...whatever you do...I will be right there waiting to tie you up."

"luckyone" wouldn't be a reference to Amy Grant, would it?

Sensational thread. Per media reports, he was NOT restrained with duct tape, but rather flex cuffs.

iAvgeek737 wrote:

MrHMSH wrote:

Looking forward to 'flight to MIA diverted as 2 year old causes disturbances'.

Im sure its coming.....

Some years ago, I was out walking when I briefly stepped aside to reply to an e-mail on my phone. Suddenly, those adorable pint-size tween boys that I had passed playing outside, were now playing with a pair of handguns pointed directly at me while demanding I hand over my possessions. It was a very traumatic experience, but even to this date I'm subject to ridicule; 'they were playing cops and robbers and you fell for it hahaha.'

The scary thing about 13yo males is that they can grow quickly into their adult frames, but be completely unaware of their size and strength. The frequent notion on this forum that kids should get a pass because they're kids is asinine. Teenagers' behavior is often unpredictable and uncontrollable, with violent outbursts.

What is the alternative? A psychological evaluation and a Fit to Fly certificate since we are not far from an universal vaccine certificate for long haul travel soon?

Being selfish, I would rather see some disturbing people sacrificed with duct tap than everyone is required to see a psychological clinic to get a Fit to Fly certificate. Please don't shoot. It is just me being cynical.

744SPX wrote:

luckyone wrote:

PHLspecial wrote:

Is this a problem world wide or more of a problem in the U.S?

While I don't know the frequency, I know it happened a few years back on a Korean Air flight where a passenger had to be tied to his seat. What's sad is the main reason I know about is because I'm a fan of Richard Marx (remember him???), follow him on social media, and his wife took pictures of him on the plane helping tie the guy down. "wherever you go...whatever you do...I will be right there waiting to tie you up."

"luckyone" wouldn't be a reference to Amy Grant, would it?

Close but not really. I'm really bad at picking screennames. When I joined there was a song called "The Lucky One" by Faith Hill that was on repeat on my play list because I liked it's optimistic tone.

LimaFoxTango wrote:

OA412 wrote:

Duct taping any passenger to a seat, as happened on F9 last week, and now on AA this week seems like a huge liability issue. What happens in the event of an emergency evacuation if crew can't get the tape removed in time and the passenger is stuck?

I'm willing to bet its against regulations to duct tape anyone to their seat exactly for the reasons you mentioned. Just like a prisoner being transported by air can be handcuffed together, but not "cuffed" to their seat.

When I was a flight attendant years ago, this is the same reason that we were trained to verify that prisoners who were being escorted and transported commercially could never be cuffed to a part of the aircraft.

WidebodyPTV wrote:

Sensational thread. Per media reports, he was NOT restrained with duct tape, but rather flex cuffs.

iAvgeek737 wrote:

MrHMSH wrote:

Looking forward to 'flight to MIA diverted as 2 year old causes disturbances'.

Im sure its coming.....

Some years ago, I was out walking when I briefly stepped aside to reply to an e-mail on my phone. Suddenly, those adorable pint-size tween boys that I had passed playing outside, were now playing with a pair of handguns pointed directly at me while demanding I hand over my possessions. It was a very traumatic experience, but even to this date I'm subject to ridicule; 'they were playing cops and robbers and you fell for it hahaha.'

The scary thing about 13yo males is that they can grow quickly into their adult frames, but be completely unaware of their size and strength. The frequent notion on this forum that kids should get a pass because they're kids is asinine. Teenagers' behavior is often unpredictable and uncontrollable, with violent outbursts.

The FA in the video footage is very obviously using duct tape. Not sure if they swapped it out for flex cuffs later on, but the child is definitely being duct taped in the video.

cirrusdragoon wrote:

OA412 wrote:

Duct taping any passenger to a seat, as happened on F9 last week, and now on AA this week seems like a huge liability issue. What happens in the event of an emergency evacuation if crew can't get the tape removed in time and the passenger is stuck?

I was going to say the exact same thing. I suppose they condemn them to die in the event of an evacuation, death penalty it would seem.

I would think the duct taped person would be responsible for doing this to themselves.
Yes, I know that's not how liability actually works in the USA, though.

MrHMSH wrote:

Looking forward to 'flight to MIA diverted as 2 year old causes disturbances'.

"Flight to MIA diverted as the crew run out of duct tape"

"On American Airlines, we no longer have free bags, meals, or legroom --- but the duct tape is FREEEE!!!!!!"

OA412 wrote:

Duct taping any passenger to a seat, as happened on F9 last week, and now on AA this week seems like a huge liability issue. What happens in the event of an emergency evacuation if crew can't get the tape removed in time and the passenger is stuck?

It's an issue either way. What happens if disruptive person is not restrained and messes up with evacuation? Following orders and getting in a seat before landing?
But frankly speaking, once above FL100, what are the chances for evacuation without some warning and some time for crew to prepare for (crash) landing? That may include cutting at least some of the tape.

SARCASM ALERT SARCASM ALERT SARCASM ALERT..... He was probably upset that there was no IFE on this flight. END SARCASM ALERT

WkndWanderer wrote:

WidebodyPTV wrote:

Sensational thread. Per media reports, he was NOT restrained with duct tape, but rather flex cuffs.

iAvgeek737 wrote:

Im sure its coming.....

Some years ago, I was out walking when I briefly stepped aside to reply to an e-mail on my phone. Suddenly, those adorable pint-size tween boys that I had passed playing outside, were now playing with a pair of handguns pointed directly at me while demanding I hand over my possessions. It was a very traumatic experience, but even to this date I'm subject to ridicule; 'they were playing cops and robbers and you fell for it hahaha.'

The scary thing about 13yo males is that they can grow quickly into their adult frames, but be completely unaware of their size and strength. The frequent notion on this forum that kids should get a pass because they're kids is asinine. Teenagers' behavior is often unpredictable and uncontrollable, with violent outbursts.

The FA in the video footage is very obviously using duct tape. Not sure if they swapped it out for flex cuffs later on, but the child is definitely being duct taped in the video.

Media reports indicate they abandoned their attempt to duct tape him and choose fleet cuffs instead.

It’s weird that they don’t carry those zip tie handcuffs on planes at this point

I seem to remember handcuffs were removed from planes because they were being stolen for “personal” use. Kinda same reason Virgin Atlantic removed baby changing tables on their planes…mile high club.

Have to remember, almost daily, prisoner transport flights occur and you can bet those folks are fully restrained.

Maybe instead of seat belts, we should be required to tape ourselves to seats. That would also resolve the lines for the lavs.

sgbroimp wrote:

jeffrey0032j wrote:

Who is the biggest duct tape supplier to airlines? 3M? They could expect more duct tape orders soon.

And sadly, the airlines are on the way to becoming 3M's largest duct tape customer!

I love it. 3M growth means more traffic at MSP for an aviation related upside.

Dreamflight767 wrote:

I seem to remember handcuffs were removed from planes because they were being stolen for “personal” use. Kinda same reason Virgin Atlantic removed baby changing tables on their planes…mile high club.

Have to remember, almost daily, prisoner transport flights occur and you can bet those folks are fully restrained.

Maybe instead of seat belts, we should be required to tape ourselves to seats. That would also resolve the lines for the lavs.

Prisoners wear wrist cuffs and have an escort between them and the aisle, but can not have their legs restrained or be attached to any part of the aircraft.

Hey - Duct (Duck) tape is imanufactured by Shurtape Technologies in Hickory, North Carolina and distributed out of Avon Ohio. It is the Official Duct Tape Capital of the World.

TSA allows any passenger to carry on duct tape! Remember to pack it in your carry on for your next flight.

...and yes, that is the official TSA Instagram account below.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CSZxKyzJzpo/

If the juvenile in question has or has had such difficulties traveling in cramped spaces, why would the parent(s) force him to do so now. It would seem that the parents should have made other more suitable travel arrangements for the boy rather than subject him to the rigors of crowded commercial airliners.

OA412 wrote:

Duct taping any passenger to a seat, as happened on F9 last week, and now on AA this week seems like a huge liability issue. What happens in the event of an emergency evacuation if crew can't get the tape removed in time and the passenger is stuck?

How likely is that when balanced against the damage a violent and out of control nutter can cause in a confined space?

WkndWanderer wrote:

The FA in the video footage is very obviously using duct tape. Not sure if they swapped it out for flex cuffs later on, but the child is definitely being duct taped in the video.

Seems AA has gotten out the word. The non-paywalled site I found says:

In the short clip, passengers can be seen helping an attendant, who is seen trying to use duct tape to secure the boy to his seat.

The duct tape, however, was ultimately not used in favor of flex cuffs the crew had.

Ref: https://www.newsweek.com/13-year-old-du ... ow-1618358

Time for actions like these to have consequences. No fly list for life. But some snowflake judge will dismiss all charges if there even are charges filed. The air line needs to go federal and ban for life ……

I flew as an FA for UA years ago - during the 9/11 era. We had no SOP about duct tape either way. Violent incidents happen very quickly, and your goal is to subdue someone who is acting out before they hurt other people. These duct tape incidents might not look glamorous, but duct tape can sometimes be easier to apply than tough cuffs of zipties that require getting the person immobilized enough to control both of their arms at once.

As far as the evac situation, I would assess that once things calm down. Yes, I would try to get them out of the tape pre-landing. But for a person who attempted to interfere with an operational feature or the aircraft (opening doors, setting fires, breaching the cockpit), I would be very careful not to allow them a new opportunity to get free. Remember, the doors get easier to open as the pressure differential decreases, and the last thing I want is them back up on final approach trying to rip the window exists open. If that means they have to land in a tape cocoon, so be it.

Perhaps the training has changed. But when I went through, there was nothing about needing to make restrained passengers evac ready (except for prisoners being transported lawfully who may not in any way be attached to the aircraft).

Tomsixty2 wrote:

Time for actions like these to have consequences. No fly list for life. But some snowflake judge will dismiss all charges if there even are charges filed. The air line needs to go federal and ban for life ……

Bro he’s 13. Chill.

MrHMSH wrote:

Looking forward to 'flight to MIA diverted as 2 year old causes disturbances'.

Nah, the flight'll originate from LAS...