Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16866
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: AA Crew Duct Tapes 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:28 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
spinotter wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
If anybody should be banned, not saying banning is appropriate here, it’s the lackadaisical parents who raised the child to be a brat. That’s all assuming there isn’t an underlying medical condition such as autism.


I think that trying to kick out the window goes way beyond being a brat.


Enough with the overdramatized kicking the window out meme. No person of any size, Hulk Hogan and Arnold the Terminator included, is going to kick out a window. No one was in the slightest endangered. Annoyed, yes.

He’s a brat, perhaps mentally challenged, but not a threat to lives or the plane.


I blame the media for this. I have never seen an article about pax attempting to open exits (or kick out window as case may be) without an accompanying explanation that doing so is physically/technically impossible.
 
Dreamflight767
Posts: 543
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:43 pm

Re: AA Crew Restrains 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:29 am

I don't believe there is any crew member (or fellow PAX) who want to encounter a flight that requires the need to restrain someone. I also doubt that as this (or any other recent situation) unfolded, rushing to restrain was not the first action. I'm sure other efforts to mitigate the situation(s) was/were attempted. Obviously crew are not and cannot be specifically trained to evaluate with situation to determine is a mental or violent/drunk outburst. I mean months of evaluation by many specialists take place during court trails to determine ones mental state in cases. Also, just because the PAX was restrained, doesn't mean he/she was in pain. All things considered, they did the best they could for all parties. Besides, maybe if they didn't restrain this PAX, other PAX less trained and sympathetic may have attempted to "deal" with the situation themselves. Gosh knows how that would have turned out.
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2765
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: AA Crew Duct Tapes 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:32 am

AirKevin wrote:
IFlyMGN wrote:
If the juvenile in question has or has had such difficulties traveling in cramped spaces, why would the parent(s) force him to do so now. It would seem that the parents should have made other more suitable travel arrangements for the boy rather than subject him to the rigors of crowded commercial airliners.

How else would one travel from Maui to Los Angeles, drive?


Yes, you would drive... to the port, and then board the passenger ship. Lots of fresh air on deck.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8973
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: AA Crew Restrains 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:33 am

Dreamflight767 wrote:
I don't believe there is any crew member (or fellow PAX) who want to encounter a flight that requires the need to restrain someone. I also doubt that as this (or any other recent situation) unfolded, rushing to restrain was not the first action. I'm sure other efforts to mitigate the situation(s) was/were attempted. Obviously crew are not and cannot be specifically trained to evaluate with situation to determine is a mental or violent/drunk outburst. I mean months of evaluation by many specialists take place during court trails to determine ones mental state in cases. Also, just because the PAX was restrained, doesn't mean he/she was in pain. All things considered, they did the best they could for all parties. Besides, maybe if they didn't restrain this PAX, other PAX less trained and sympathetic may have attempted to "deal" with the situation themselves. Gosh knows how that would have turned out.


We know how it worked out in the past. Pax on a WN flight killed a passenger attempting to enter the cockpit and that was prior to 9/11.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest ... light_1763
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16866
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: AA Crew Duct Tapes 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:59 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
IFlyMGN wrote:
If the juvenile in question has or has had such difficulties traveling in cramped spaces, why would the parent(s) force him to do so now. It would seem that the parents should have made other more suitable travel arrangements for the boy rather than subject him to the rigors of crowded commercial airliners.

How else would one travel from Maui to Los Angeles, drive?


Yes, you would drive... to the port, and then board the passenger ship. Lots of fresh air on deck.


The minimum itinerary from LA to Hawaii is 15 nights. It would be a lucky couple that could simultaneously swing that kind of PTO.
 
User avatar
spinotter
Posts: 923
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: AA Crew Duct Tapes 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:14 am

Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
spinotter wrote:

I think that trying to kick out the window goes way beyond being a brat.


Enough with the overdramatized kicking the window out meme. No person of any size, Hulk Hogan and Arnold the Terminator included, is going to kick out a window. No one was in the slightest endangered. Annoyed, yes.

He’s a brat, perhaps mentally challenged, but not a threat to lives or the plane.


I blame the media for this. I have never seen an article about pax attempting to open exits (or kick out window as case may be) without an accompanying explanation that doing so is physically/technically impossible.


The fact that opening or breaking the airplane window is not possible at cruising altitude still does not make it reasonable for such behavior to be minimized by calling the boy a brat. Autism may explain it, but it goes far beyond bratdom.
 
User avatar
United_fan
Posts: 6700
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:11 am

Re: AA Crew Restrains 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:32 am

You would think zip ties would be easier to use than duct tape..
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16749
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: AA Crew Restrains 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:51 am

United_fan wrote:
You would think zip ties would be easier to use than duct tape..


Tape has greater surface area, the pressure it puts onto the person.
 
User avatar
CrewBunk
Posts: 342
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:12 am

Re: AA Crew Restrains 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:05 pm

Even if he got a hold of a fire extinguisher or an O2 bottle, it’s not likely a window can be damaged by one person to the point of being dangerous. Much like someone attempting to open an exit while in the air, the crew is correct in reacting swiftly.

It shows intent to harm the aircraft and its passengers. He should be restrained, as who knows, he might find something where he actually can affect the integrity of the aircraft.
 
User avatar
AirKevin
Posts: 921
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:18 am

Re: AA Crew Duct Tapes 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:51 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
How else would one travel from Maui to Los Angeles, drive?


Yes, you would drive... to the port, and then board the passenger ship. Lots of fresh air on deck.


The minimum itinerary from LA to Hawaii is 15 nights. It would be a lucky couple that could simultaneously swing that kind of PTO.

Not to mention the cost of such a trip.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 428
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: AA Crew Restrains 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:20 pm

I doubt its impossible to kick out a window, improbable yes, impossible no. What if there is a weak spot in the window due to a manufacturing defect? The pressure differential from inside and out helps the person attempting to break the window. Again, I think it is improbable that enough damage can be inflicted to weaken the window, but I don't want to watch and find out. Any person interfering with the sage operation of the aircraft, even if it seems trivial, should restrained.
 
User avatar
SAAFNAV
Posts: 638
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:41 pm

Re: AA Crew Duct Tapes 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:29 pm

OA412 wrote:
Duct taping any passenger to a seat, as happened on F9 last week, and now on AA this week seems like a huge liability issue. What happens in the event of an emergency evacuation if crew can't get the tape removed in time and the passenger is stuck?


Not sure if this was answered, but not going through all the pages of comments now.

At my operator (South African), we were expressly forbidden to tie the offender to the aircraft. We were issue cable-tie type cuffs to bind his arms behind the back, but he should have a way out in event of an emergency.
 
910A
Posts: 1941
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:11 am

Re: AA Crew Duct Tapes 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:30 pm

ikramerica wrote:
You shouldn’t be so quick to judge “this fool”. Having the kindest most caring son who has autism, this is a familiar pattern of behaviour. It can easily be pacified without resorting to duct tape.
As a parent with an autistic son who will end up at least 6-2, I am dreading his teen years when he won't understand what's happening to him. He is hard to control now if he is very upset, but I am bigger than him.

That said, he loves planes and doesn't lose control in those situations, so he travels fine.


The child in this case is autistic. The only parent with him was his mother, and I'm not making this up but she only had one arm. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... geles.html

A young American Airlines passenger with autism, 11, had a medical meltdown midflight and was duct taped to his seat 'for the safety of the other passengers
His mom is disabled and has only one arm, a source said, and couldn't console her son who has Autism
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8973
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: AA Crew Duct Tapes 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:40 pm

spinotter wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Enough with the overdramatized kicking the window out meme. No person of any size, Hulk Hogan and Arnold the Terminator included, is going to kick out a window. No one was in the slightest endangered. Annoyed, yes.

He’s a brat, perhaps mentally challenged, but not a threat to lives or the plane.


I blame the media for this. I have never seen an article about pax attempting to open exits (or kick out window as case may be) without an accompanying explanation that doing so is physically/technically impossible.


The fact that opening or breaking the airplane window is not possible at cruising altitude still does not make it reasonable for such behavior to be minimized by calling the boy a brat. Autism may explain it, but it goes far beyond bratdom.


OK, what’s your term of art?
 
User avatar
spinotter
Posts: 923
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: AA Crew Duct Tapes 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:47 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
spinotter wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

I blame the media for this. I have never seen an article about pax attempting to open exits (or kick out window as case may be) without an accompanying explanation that doing so is physically/technically impossible.


The fact that opening or breaking the airplane window is not possible at cruising altitude still does not make it reasonable for such behavior to be minimized by calling the boy a brat. Autism may explain it, but it goes far beyond bratdom.


OK, what’s your term of art?


Mentally and emotionally challenged. In a way that removes some of the onus of guilt, but again, the person may never be capable of different behavior patterns. Perhaps his parents may reconsider such trips in the future.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8973
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: AA Crew Restrains 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:09 pm

Brat, then. You said his behavior was “unreasonable”; so unless there’s an underlying mental issue, he or his parents are responsible for the unreasonable behavior. If does have “challenges”; he deserves the necessary care, if not, he’s a brat. BTW, drinks tearing thru a plane or starting fistfights are just grownup brats who were never taught right.

When mom or dad spanked us, “it was thousands of years of evolution”; not Dr Spock at work.
 
User avatar
AirKevin
Posts: 921
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:18 am

Re: AA Crew Duct Tapes 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:08 am

910A wrote:
The child in this case is autistic. The only parent with him was his mother, and I'm not making this up but she only had one arm. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... geles.html

A young American Airlines passenger with autism, 11, had a medical meltdown midflight and was duct taped to his seat 'for the safety of the other passengers
His mom is disabled and has only one arm, a source said, and couldn't console her son who has Autism

Original article said the boy was 13, but this one that you linked says he's 11, and that it was his brother who punched the window, not him. So now I'm having a hard time figuring out what all happened.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15202
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Re: AA Crew Duct Tapes 13 y/o To His Seat OGG-LAX

Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:14 am

AirKevin wrote:
910A wrote:
The child in this case is autistic. The only parent with him was his mother, and I'm not making this up but she only had one arm. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... geles.html

A young American Airlines passenger with autism, 11, had a medical meltdown midflight and was duct taped to his seat 'for the safety of the other passengers
His mom is disabled and has only one arm, a source said, and couldn't console her son who has Autism

Original article said the boy was 13, but this one that you linked says he's 11, and that it was his brother who punched the window, not him. So now I'm having a hard time figuring out what all happened.

People passing judgment with incomplete information? This is a new thing on the internet. I hope it doesn’t spread…

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos